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View Full Version : Stevie Johnson signs...Bar may be set.



JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-05-2012, 10:54 AM
The official numbers aren't out but this will be a negotiating tool.


The Bills didn't disclose terms of the agreement, but a league source told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter that Johnson received a five-year, $36.25 million deal that includes $19.5 million guaranteed and over $24 million in the contract's first three years.

rockonsteel
03-05-2012, 11:02 AM
The official numbers aren't out but this will be a negotiating tool.


The Bills didn't disclose terms of the agreement, but a league source told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter that Johnson received a five-year, $36.25 million deal that includes $19.5 million guaranteed and over $24 million in the contract's first three years.


If that's the neighborhood of what it's gonna take to re-sign MW, I'd do that in a heartbeat. Those are reasonable numbers for what he brings to this offense.


Rockon

RuthlessBurgher
03-05-2012, 11:06 AM
Wallace's agent will argue that he should be up with Calvin, Andre, and Larry.

Steeler management will argue that he should be with someone like Stevie Johnson.

Neither side is correct. That's negotiation.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
03-05-2012, 11:08 AM
I was just about to post this. WGR radio in Buffalo is reporting the same numbers and source.

One thing that this does, other than setting the bar, is to take one current FA WR off the market. The general consensus was that Johnson would leave the Bills and the Buffalo would probably not be a big player for one of the top FA receivers.

Aside from this, this sets Wallace's bar higher than Stevie's number. Johnson is a good receiver, however he does have a big history of drops (remember Steeler fans) and boneheaded mistakes.

We can all agree that Buffalo has a better line and running game but not nearly as strong armed a QB - at least I hope that this is agreeable to all. In comparing numbers over the past two years we see

Johnson
158 catches, 2,077 yards, 17 TDs

Wallace
132 catches, 2,450 yards, 18 TDs

Based on this, I would think that the number for a five year deal would be somewhere around $40M with about $21M guaranteed. A first year cap number in the $4.5M range to help us ease towards 2014 when his cap hit moves closer to $10M as the salary cap increases.

Steelers>NFL
03-05-2012, 11:16 AM
Wallace's agent will argue that he should be up with Calvin, Andre, and Larry.

Steeler management will argue that he should be with someone like Stevie Johnson.

Neither side is correct. That's negotiation.

Sorry, but Wallace is NOT in the same league overall as Calvin, andre & Larry.

Oviedo
03-05-2012, 11:19 AM
The official numbers aren't out but this will be a negotiating tool.


The Bills didn't disclose terms of the agreement, but a league source told ESPN NFL Insider Adam Schefter that Johnson received a five-year, $36.25 million deal that includes $19.5 million guaranteed and over $24 million in the contract's first three years.


If that's the neighborhood of what it's gonna take to re-sign MW, I'd do that in a heartbeat. Those are reasonable numbers for what he brings to this offense.


Rockon


I'm not sure I would be quick to commit those dollars to Wallace because just over a year from now we have to resign A. Brown. Do you really think we can afford to have both of those guys at WR with that type of financial commitment? When have we ever at the same time paid two WR that type of money?

IMO Brown was the better, more complete WR the second half of last season which is why it is critical to see how they perform this season to see which one of the two we really want to retain long term. Not sure we can afford both if they both have great seasons in 2012.

RuthlessBurgher
03-05-2012, 11:37 AM
Wallace's agent will argue that he should be up with Calvin, Andre, and Larry.

Steeler management will argue that he should be with someone like Stevie Johnson.

Neither side is correct. That's negotiation.

Sorry, but Wallace is NOT in the same league overall as Calvin, andre & Larry.

That's why I said neither side is correct...but you know Wallace's agent will go there anyway. He'll compare Wallace's first 3 years to each of those 3 guys in their first 3 seasons, and show how they are comparable (Wallace has the most receiving yardage out of those 4 guys, highest yards per catch average, and tied for most receiving TD's after 3 seasons in the league). That's what agents are paid to do.

Mike Wallace 1st 3 years: 171 catches for 3206 yards (18.7 ypc average) and 24 TD's.

Larry Fitzgerald 1st 3 years: 230 catches for 3135 yards (13.6 ypc average) and 24 TD's.

Calvin Johnson 1st 3 years: 193 catches for 3071 yards (15.9 ypc average) and 21 TD's.

Andre Johnson 1st 3 years: 208 catches for 3014 yards (14.5 ypc average) and 12 TD's.


Meanwhile, the team will compare Stevie Johnson stats over the last 2 seasons (158 catches for 2077 yards and 17 TD's) to Wallace's numbers over the last 2 seasons (132 catches for 2450 yards and 18 TD's).


Those will be the starting points for both sides. Wallace's ultimate contract will be north of Stevie but south of Calvin/Andre/Larry.

RuthlessBurgher
03-05-2012, 11:39 AM
I love Antonio Brown, but why does what he did in the second half of last season trump everything Wallace did over 3 full seasons? Is it just a "What have you done for me lately" thing?

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-05-2012, 11:40 AM
Good thing about the new CBA is numbers will start to get in line. C Johnson is in his final year of his rookie deal which will never happen again. For negotiating, the Steelers will try to not value that deal for a #2 overall pick. If they redo it, which they are trying to because of his huge hit this year, that will be another bar. Fitz is on his 3rd contract but his 2nd was a 4/40 mil. Threw out his final year for his new one which rolled into 2011. He has a 15 mil bonus for 2012 which looks like to me was a "make him happy" clause when he wanted a new deal. His contract has a De-escalators clause for under 80 cathes for the term. Andre Johnson is also on his 3rd. His 2nd was a 6/60 mil but looks like that was redone for his 3rd. If you look at A Johnson, his numbers from 2010-2014 are between 8.6 mil & 9.3 mil. I think A Johnson numbers are on the table & Stevie Johnson's new contract. New deal of 7.25 avg, A Johnson's 9.3, and a 9.5 tag...Those numbers seem to be in line. They may benefit getting a deal done before D Jackson signs long term.

feltdizz
03-05-2012, 11:57 AM
I love Antonio Brown, but why does what he did in the second half of last season trump everything Wallace did over 3 full seasons? Is it just a "What have you done for me lately" thing?

Pretty much... but I also think it's because most fans think we have seen the best of Wallace and feel like AB still has room to grow.

I also think fans of AB see him as a consistent 8 to 10 catches a game type of WR while Wallace looks to be more of a 3 to 5 catches a game type of WR. However, we all know those 3 to 5's could be big gains.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-05-2012, 12:02 PM
If you guys are worried the Steelers won't be able to afford both Wallace & Brown you should relax a little. The Steelers have the ability to fit in Wallace at a 8 mil number if they get him longterm. But many of your are forgetting something else. The rule 51 number also has 8.9 mil of dead money to date that will be available for 2013. Add in 8 mil salary for Hampton for 2012 that will not be there in 2013. So simply with dead money recovery and Hampton not having a contract in 2013 you are looking at 17 mil. If you want to keep going...Mendy walking is another 3 mil. You will see some of that getting eaten up with Wallace & with the restructures they just did but also consider that Harrison, Clark, Keisel, & Foote will be facing the music just like Farrior & Ward did this offseason. The Steelers can very well keep there own stars and build there new core while letting the old out. The key will be drafting well to fill the positions for now and next. It will hurt many in the heart...But there is no reason why the production should not continue with new faces. Even the ones they have to pay.

Oviedo
03-05-2012, 12:03 PM
Everyone keeps citing the cap increases that begin in 2014 and a rtaionale for signing Wallace to a big contract. Keep in mind that Brown will want a big contract too. So will Pouncey, etc.

Also keep in mind that we just pushed a whole bunch of money into 2014 and beyond when we renegotiated all these contracts to get under the cap. There is probably going to be a lot less money available than we think.

RuthlessBurgher
03-05-2012, 12:14 PM
I love Antonio Brown, but why does what he did in the second half of last season trump everything Wallace did over 3 full seasons? Is it just a "What have you done for me lately" thing?

Pretty much... but I also think it's because most fans think we have seen the best of Wallace and feel like AB still has room to grow.

I also think fans of AB see him as a consistent 8 to 10 catches a game type of WR while Wallace looks to be more of a 3 to 5 catches a game type of WR. However, we all know those 3 to 5's could be big gains.

I'd sure be impressed if Brown caught between 128 and 160 balls per year. :wink:

feltdizz
03-05-2012, 01:26 PM
I love Antonio Brown, but why does what he did in the second half of last season trump everything Wallace did over 3 full seasons? Is it just a "What have you done for me lately" thing?

Pretty much... but I also think it's because most fans think we have seen the best of Wallace and feel like AB still has room to grow.

I also think fans of AB see him as a consistent 8 to 10 catches a game type of WR while Wallace looks to be more of a 3 to 5 catches a game type of WR. However, we all know those 3 to 5's could be big gains.

I'd sure be impressed if Brown caught between 128 and 160 balls per year. :wink:

it's possible :stirpot

bubble screens baby!