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Dee Dub
02-28-2012, 02:36 PM
Some are saying that Dont'a Hightower is too slow to be anything but a 2 down LB'er or that he is in adequate in coverage. This is not true. He was a 3 down back at Alabama in Nick Saban's 3-4 zone blitz and although he isnt great in coverage he is far from inadequate. If he isnt the guy you want the Steelers to draft, cool, but dont just make up stuff because about Hightower because he isnt your pick.

Here are some clips of him. Please watch them.

watch the 6 play on this clip. Hightower picks up the back in the flat and has him blanketed. Also you will notice that Hightower was used all over the place. Even off the edge as a DE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzJ3o1heM5E

These next clips all show how quick he plays. From the ILB spot he is able to get hits on these QB's. And they arent just hits. They are violent hits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBe6Ez1O ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBe6Ez1OwO4&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fdY8xns ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fdY8xnsUuY&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOYCrxD- ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOYCrxD-4c8&feature=related)

RuthlessBurgher
02-28-2012, 02:44 PM
In the nickel, you take out your NT and replace him with a DB. Our DE's shift inside to DT's, our OLB's put their hands on the ground as rush ends, and our two ILB's stay put.

Hightower would still be in the nickel, next to Timmons.

But in the dime, you replace your NT and one of your ILB's with 2 DB's. You still have the four man line up front like in the nickel, but now have only one ILB in the game. The dime ILB is typically the faster guy with more range and coverage ability (while still being able to rush the passer if a ILB blitz up the middle is called).

Timmons is the dime backer. Hightower would be on the sidelines.

Survey says...he'd be a 2.5 down player. :wink:

Oviedo
02-28-2012, 02:53 PM
In the nickel, you take out your NT and replace him with a DB. Our DE's shift inside to DT's, our OLB's put their hands on the ground as rush ends, and our two ILB's stay put.

Hightower would still be in the nickel, next to Timmons.

But in the dime, you replace your NT and one of your ILB's with 2 DB's. You still have the four man line up front like in the nickel, but now have only one ILB in the game. The dime ILB is typically the faster guy with more range and coverage ability (while still being able to rush the passer if a ILB blitz up the middle is called).

Timmons is the dime backer. Hightower would be on the sidelines.

Survey says...he'd be a 2.5 down player. :wink:

I'd take Hightower as a 2.5-3 down player without hesitation because I do know that a NT like Poe will be watching 1.5 of those downs from the sideline.

An impact ILB is more importnat right now for our defense than a NT.

RuthlessBurgher
02-28-2012, 02:59 PM
In the nickel, you take out your NT and replace him with a DB. Our DE's shift inside to DT's, our OLB's put their hands on the ground as rush ends, and our two ILB's stay put.

Hightower would still be in the nickel, next to Timmons.

But in the dime, you replace your NT and one of your ILB's with 2 DB's. You still have the four man line up front like in the nickel, but now have only one ILB in the game. The dime ILB is typically the faster guy with more range and coverage ability (while still being able to rush the passer if a ILB blitz up the middle is called).

Timmons is the dime backer. Hightower would be on the sidelines.

Survey says...he'd be a 2.5 down player. :wink:

I'd take Hightower as a 2.5-3 down player without hesitation because I do know that a NT like Poe will be watching 1.5 of those downs from the sideline.

An impact ILB is more importnat right now for our defense than a NT.

If Poe can collapse the pocket better than Hood or Heyward, then he'd stay on the field as one of the nickel/dime DT's (a guy that big will need breathers now and then, so he won't be on the field all time, but he's not just a plugger to take up blockers and stuff the run...he displayed the movement skills to be disruptive as a pass rusher as well).

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
02-28-2012, 03:51 PM
If we don't have guys who can collapse the pocket then we won't have to worry about who is a two down, 2.5 down, or three down player...........as we might never get to third down.

Dee Dub
02-28-2012, 04:04 PM
If we don't have guys who can collapse the pocket then we won't have to worry about who is a two down, 2.5 down, or three down player...........as we might never get to third down.

This is the great thing about Hightower. If you look at those clips you can see he is a force inside with the blitz. He himself can collapse the pocket.

feltdizz
02-28-2012, 04:05 PM
Some are saying that Dont'a Hightower is too slow to be anything but a 2 down LB'er or that he is in adequate in coverage. This is not true. He was a 3 down back at Alabama in Nick Saban's 3-4 zone blitz and although he isnt great in coverage he is far from inadequate. If he isnt the guy you want the Steelers to draft, cool, but dont just make up stuff because about Hightower because he isnt your pick.

Here are some clips of him. Please watch them.

watch the 6 play on this clip. Hightower picks up the back in the flat and has him blanketed. Also you will notice that Hightower was used all over the place. Even off the edge as a DE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzJ3o1heM5E

These next clips all show how quick he plays. From the ILB spot he is able to get hits on these QB's. And they arent just hits. They are violent hits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBe6Ez1O ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBe6Ez1OwO4&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fdY8xns ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fdY8xnsUuY&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOYCrxD- ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOYCrxD-4c8&feature=related)

Anyone with 2 feet could have blanketed the RB on that play because he was stopped in his tracks by the blitzing DB.

The other hits were nice.

phillyesq
02-28-2012, 04:06 PM
I'd take Hightower as a 2.5-3 down player without hesitation because I do know that a NT like Poe will be watching 1.5 of those downs from the sideline.

An impact ILB is more importnat right now for our defense than a NT.

Timmons is sure as hell being paid like an impact ILB, and the Steelers don't need 2 impact ILBs. Timmons and a solid ILB should be fine.

The defense does need a NT. A good NT will occupy blockers and free up the LBers and other ends to make plays. If the NT could push the pocket, that would also be a plus.

That said, if I had to rank players today, I'd rank Hightower over Poe. Hightower fits the Steelers mold -- big program, college success, etc. Poe, on the other hand, is more of a boom or bust type pick.

In the last 20 years, the Steelers have essentially made three boom or bust picks. One of those (Ben) worked very well; the other two (Troy Edwards and Jamain Stephens) did not.

feltdizz
02-28-2012, 04:07 PM
If Poe can collapse the pocket better than Hood or Heyward, then he'd stay on the field as one of the nickel/dime DT's (a guy that big will need breathers now and then, so he won't be on the field all time, but he's not just a plugger to take up blockers and stuff the run...he displayed the movement skills to be disruptive as a pass rusher as well).

Bingo... we need guys up front who can collapse the pocket.

hawaiiansteel
02-28-2012, 04:23 PM
did we really need a 4th Dont'a Hightower thread? :roll:

RuthlessBurgher
02-28-2012, 04:43 PM
In the last 20 years, the Steelers have essentially made three boom or bust picks. One of those (Ben) worked very well; the other two (Troy Edwards and Jamain Stephens) did not.

Whenever you take guys from small schools, some boom and some bust (take Ike Taylor from Louisiana-LaFayette vs. Ricardo Colclough from Tusculum, for example...neither was a first rounder, but we struck gold with the guy we took in the 4th, and struck out with the guy we traded up for in the 2nd). With that said, however, I wouldn't necessarily put Ben and Poe in the same category as Stephens and Edwards. To wit:

Jamain Stephens went to North Carolina A & T...Division I-AA school (I suppose they call it the "Football Championship Subdivision" now as opposed to Division I-A's "Bowl Championship Subdivision", but whatever...same thing). Troy Edwards went to Louisiana Tech. Granted, that's where we got Terry Bradshaw too, but that was a different animal. When we drafted Edwards, La. Tech had only been in Division I-A for a decade...they were I-AA up to 1989.

That's different than Miami (OH) from the MAC, which has proven to be a respectable grounds for developing NFL talent, particularly at QB (although most of them are on our roster now...Ben, Byron, and Charlie are all MAC QB's...I'm shocked that we never signed Pennington near the end of his career). Memphis is no slouch either...they've been in Conference USA, and are moving to the Big East after this season. Mike Tomlin and Randy Fichtner coached there, DeAngelo Williams and Isaac Bruce played there, etc.

Dee Dub
02-28-2012, 04:44 PM
did we really need a 4th Dont'a Hightower thread? :roll:

Yes we did...but we sure could have done without you complaining about them in all 4 threads. :wink:

Oviedo
02-28-2012, 04:49 PM
If Poe can collapse the pocket better than Hood or Heyward, then he'd stay on the field as one of the nickel/dime DT's (a guy that big will need breathers now and then, so he won't be on the field all time, but he's not just a plugger to take up blockers and stuff the run...he displayed the movement skills to be disruptive as a pass rusher as well).

Bingo... we need guys up front who can collapse the pocket.


That's called a 4-3 defense, ask the Giants :stirpot

As long as LeBeau is the DC we will not see our defensive linemen collapsing the pocket. They have the critical task of "occupying" blockers instead of making plays in the backfield.

hawaiiansteel
02-28-2012, 04:49 PM
did we really need a 4th Dont'a Hightower thread? :roll:

Yes we did...but we sure could have done without you complaining about them in all 4 threads. :wink:


you exaggerate, I only complained about it in 3 of the four threads... :D

grotonsteel
02-28-2012, 04:54 PM
[quote="steeler_fan_in_t.o.":bnhcfvzs]If we don't have guys who can collapse the pocket then we won't have to worry about who is a two down, 2.5 down, or three down player...........as we might never get to third down.

This is the great thing about Hightower. If you look at those clips you can see he is a force inside with the blitz. He himself can collapse the pocket.[/quote:bnhcfvzs]


Can he cover TEs and RB?? I don't think Hightower plays well in space. I will pass.

I can get better value in later rounds.


Most of his scouting report:
Not going to excel in man coverage, some stiffness in the hips Durability is a concern Will occasionally be over-aggressive Not a sideline to sideline guy.

grotonsteel
02-28-2012, 04:55 PM
I'd take Hightower as a 2.5-3 down player without hesitation because I do know that a NT like Poe will be watching 1.5 of those downs from the sideline.

An impact ILB is more importnat right now for our defense than a NT.

Timmons is sure as hell being paid like an impact ILB, and the Steelers don't need 2 impact ILBs. Timmons and a solid ILB should be fine.



:Agree :Clap

And you don't need to burn a Rd 1 draft pick for solid ILB. Get solid ILB in mid-rounds.

DeMario Davis
Nigel Bradham

RuthlessBurgher
02-28-2012, 05:01 PM
If Poe can collapse the pocket better than Hood or Heyward, then he'd stay on the field as one of the nickel/dime DT's (a guy that big will need breathers now and then, so he won't be on the field all time, but he's not just a plugger to take up blockers and stuff the run...he displayed the movement skills to be disruptive as a pass rusher as well).

Bingo... we need guys up front who can collapse the pocket.


That's called a 4-3 defense, ask the Giants :stirpot

As long as LeBeau is the DC we will not see our defensive linemen collapsing the pocket. They have the critical task of "occupying" blockers instead of making plays in the backfield.

Responsibilites for our d-linemen are different on 1st and 2nd down in our standard 3-4 (occupy blockers) than they are in nickel and dime packages (rush the passer). I'm talking about using Poe in nickel/dime situations if he can collapse the pocket, but that is what they are asked to do in those situations.

Dee Dub
02-28-2012, 05:58 PM
:Agree :Clap

And you don't need to burn a Rd 1 draft pick for solid ILB. Get solid ILB in mid-rounds.

DeMario Davis
Nigel Bradham

and then two things you hope for, one they transition to a 3-4, and two that you hope to get something out of them by year 2 if not year 3.

Neither one will get on the field in year one other than special teams.

Oviedo
02-28-2012, 06:00 PM
I'd take Hightower as a 2.5-3 down player without hesitation because I do know that a NT like Poe will be watching 1.5 of those downs from the sideline.

An impact ILB is more importnat right now for our defense than a NT.

Timmons is sure as hell being paid like an impact ILB, and the Steelers don't need 2 impact ILBs. Timmons and a solid ILB should be fine.



:Agree :Clap

And you don't need to burn a Rd 1 draft pick for solid ILB. Get solid ILB in mid-rounds.

DeMario Davis
Nigel Bradham


Well, given that BOTH our current ILBs are former 1st Rd picks I'm not sure that holds true.

Dee Dub
02-28-2012, 06:24 PM
Can he cover TEs and RB?? I don't think Hightower plays well in space. I will pass.

He's adequate. I've seen him hold his own at it. But you dont need both of your ILB to be great at coverage. The zone blitz is is a defense that actually helps coverage in that they have a zone or if in man they get over the top help. And since he played ILB in a 3-4 how do you figure he doesnt play well in space? To excel at it at that position, which he did at Alabama, is the epitome of playing in space. What space are you talking about, outer space?


I can get better value in later rounds.

That is far from being true. In Hightower you can get an immediate impact starter. In later rounds you arent even guaranteed they will make the roster. How is that better value? If he excelled in Saban's 3-4 zone blitz you can bet he can come in and start for the Steelers.



Most of his scouting report:
Not going to excel in man coverage, some stiffness in the hips Durability is a concern Will occasionally be over-aggressive Not a sideline to sideline guy.

Stop reading about him and watch the tapes yourself.

Steel Life
02-28-2012, 07:06 PM
He's okay but I'd rather have Bobby Wagner & his non-stop motor...we need to be more athletic to keep up with the changing offenses - especially covering the TE.

Dee Dub
02-28-2012, 07:32 PM
He's okay but I'd rather have Bobby Wagner & his non-stop motor...we need to be more athletic to keep up with the changing offenses - especially covering the TE.

OK Wagner doesnt play much in year one and maybe not much in year two. Hightower has a great motor as well. And just how many of our LB's need to cover a TE? We are talking about filling the Mack LB spot. Covering the TE isnt his primary obligation in LeBeau's defense with Timmons on the field.

Dee Dub
02-28-2012, 07:42 PM
And for the record, Dont'a Hightower had the 4th fastest 40 yard dash of all ILB's and he ran as good or better than...

3 Rb's
3 Wr's
4 TE's
7 OLB's
11 DB's

Yeah, he's not all that slow. :nono

Chavezz
02-28-2012, 07:45 PM
3 cone drill? Haven't seen it yet...

Dee Dub
02-28-2012, 08:12 PM
3 cone drill? Haven't seen it yet...

For an ILB personally I dont think that is all that important. What I look for is acceleration, stack and shed, read and recognition, how he plays in traffic, and angles in pursuit. Most of their work is done coming forward. A 5 yard L is useful but not the most important to me for an ILB.

But here is the top 5 and other than Kuechly, you are looking at a a list of mid to late round picks. So again for this position I dont think it is all that important.


Top five in three-cone drill
Nathan Stupar, Penn State, 6.84 seconds
Tank Carder, TCU, 6.89
Chris Galippo, USC, 6.90
Luck Kuechly, Boston College, 6.92
Audie Cole, N.C. State, 6.96

Chavezz
02-28-2012, 10:02 PM
3 cone drill? Haven't seen it yet...

For an ILB personally I dont think that is all that important. What I look for is acceleration, stack and shed, read and recognition, how he plays in traffic, and angles in pursuit. Most of their work is done coming forward. A 5 yard L is useful but not the most important to me for an ILB.

But here is the top 5 and other than Kuechly, you are looking at a a list of mid to late round picks. So again for this position I dont think it is all that important.


Top five in three-cone drill
Nathan Stupar, Penn State, 6.84 seconds
Tank Carder, TCU, 6.89
Chris Galippo, USC, 6.90
Luck Kuechly, Boston College, 6.92
Audie Cole, N.C. State, 6.96
And Dant'e?

SS Laser
02-28-2012, 10:47 PM
3 cone drill? Haven't seen it yet...

For an ILB personally I dont think that is all that important. What I look for is acceleration, stack and shed, read and recognition, how he plays in traffic, and angles in pursuit. Most of their work is done coming forward. A 5 yard L is useful but not the most important to me for an ILB.

But here is the top 5 and other than Kuechly, you are looking at a a list of mid to late round picks. So again for this position I dont think it is all that important.


Top five in three-cone drill
Nathan Stupar, Penn State, 6.84 seconds
Tank Carder, TCU, 6.89
Chris Galippo, USC, 6.90
Luck Kuechly, Boston College, 6.92
Audie Cole, N.C. State, 6.96
And Dant'e?

Dant'e and Burfict did not do the 3 cone or shuttle. No idea why.
But I can see you have a angle here for Dub. Have fun.

I do have to say that Farrior has been more of a BIG strong safety I think. I don't know if Timmons fits that role. I also think that the ILB spot in a base 34 is changing. Need to have more coverage skills like a tampa 2 middle LB. And I think both ILB's need to be that way. Will it always work. No. But I like the sound of it.

3 big men up front, our classic OLB's, Very fast athletic ILB's, Two good cover/tackleing safety's for todays pass happy NFL. If it was only that easy.

Just to note Timmoms at the combine ran a 4.66 and 4.62(pro day) with a 1.50 and
1.56 (pro day) 10 yard. 3 cone 6.92 and Shuttle was a 4.34 and 4.32 (pro day)

Also Steven Sylvester at the combine ran a 4.71 with a 1.60 10 yard. No shuttle or
3 cone. His pro day did a 3-cone 7.22 and shuttle 4.50

So 2 athletic ILB. But I am not sure Sylvester has it. Will see maybe this year.

I have no problem picking Hightower. But I think he goes before 24 and I would not trade up for him.

grotonsteel
02-28-2012, 10:50 PM
I'd take Hightower as a 2.5-3 down player without hesitation because I do know that a NT like Poe will be watching 1.5 of those downs from the sideline.

An impact ILB is more importnat right now for our defense than a NT.

Timmons is sure as hell being paid like an impact ILB, and the Steelers don't need 2 impact ILBs. Timmons and a solid ILB should be fine.



:Agree :Clap

And you don't need to burn a Rd 1 draft pick for solid ILB. Get solid ILB in mid-rounds.

DeMario Davis
Nigel Bradham


Well, given that BOTH our current ILBs are former 1st Rd picks I'm not sure that holds true.

True. Farrior was 33 when they drafted Timmons. Nowwe are talking about two young ILB as No.1 draft picks. If that is the case then it tells that Steelers FO made a big mistake to sign Timmons to a big contract.

Patrick Willis made NaVarro Bowman look all-pro.

grotonsteel
02-28-2012, 10:54 PM
:Agree :Clap

And you don't need to burn a Rd 1 draft pick for solid ILB. Get solid ILB in mid-rounds.

DeMario Davis
Nigel Bradham

and then two things you hope for, one they transition to a 3-4, and two that you hope to get something out of them by year 2 if not year 3.

Neither one will get on the field in year one other than special teams.

How many Defensive players become starters in Lebeau's system in year one? Hardly any. Whether its Ziggy or Timmons or Heyward their learning curve is 2-3 years. Hightower too will be riding the pine for one year. He is not a Day One starter for Steelers barring any injuries to current Steelers LB corp.

SS Laser
02-28-2012, 11:00 PM
I'd take Hightower as a 2.5-3 down player without hesitation because I do know that a NT like Poe will be watching 1.5 of those downs from the sideline.

An impact ILB is more importnat right now for our defense than a NT.

Timmons is sure as hell being paid like an impact ILB, and the Steelers don't need 2 impact ILBs. Timmons and a solid ILB should be fine.



:Agree :Clap

And you don't need to burn a Rd 1 draft pick for solid ILB. Get solid ILB in mid-rounds.

DeMario Davis
Nigel Bradham


Well, given that BOTH our current ILBs are former 1st Rd picks I'm not sure that holds true.

True. Farrior was 33 when they drafted Timmons. Nowwe are talking about two young ILB as No.1 draft picks. If that is the case then it tells that Steelers FO made a big mistake to sign Timmons to a big contract.

Patrick Willis made NaVarro Bowman look all-pro.

You are crazy! Go look up Bowmans stats (143 tackles for 2011) and rewatch the 49r's Vs Steelers. He played very well without Willis while he was injured for 3 really 4 games.

They had a very good defence with 2 young ILB's. Interesting. Both almost ended up with 100 tackles. Willis had 97. Thanks for an idea to look them both up and compare.

grotonsteel
02-28-2012, 11:15 PM
You are crazy! Go look up Bowmans stats (143 tackles for 2011) and rewatch the 49r's Vs Steelers. He played very well without Willis while he was injured for 3 really 4 games.

They had a very good defence with 2 young ILB's. Interesting. Both almost ended up with 100 tackles. Willis had 97. Thanks for an idea to look them both up and compare.

Bowman had a great year. And Bowman is not a 1s Rd pick. If you think Wiliis does not help Bowman well it maybe true. I don't watch 49ers so closely.

My point is you don't need a 1st Rd ILB pick when you have a dominant ILB on your roster. Steelers already have one the team. Timmons. Steelers are paying Timmons top end money. Put a mid-round ILB besides Timmons and let young buck make plays.

SS Laser
02-28-2012, 11:31 PM
Also Bowmen would not have been a 3 round guy without the off the field trouble. More like late 1st or early 2. So 2 high pick ILB's really. 49r's got lucky with him. Both were he was drafted and staying out of trouble.

Could we draft a guy in the 2nd or 3rd for ILB, yep. But will he end up as good as Hightower? Could end up better.

Oh heres a good question. Would anyone take Bowman at 24 knowing how well he did this year? Also who would take Mike Wallace in the 1st rd now instead of the 3rd.

Anyway back to Dee Dubs love fest. :stirpot

Chadman
02-28-2012, 11:33 PM
Steelers fans are a funny breed.

"You don't need a 1st Round LB to get a good ILB", "You don't need a 1st round NT because he only plays 2 downs", "You don't need a 1st round WR/RB/TE/CB/FS"...etc, etc.


OK- you know what? You're all right- you DON'T 'need' a 1st round anything. There are numerous examples of lower round players doing the job of highly touted 1st Rounders.

So let's say what we really think- the Steelers should simply trade all their high picks away for multiple 5th/6th & 7th rounders- because that's all you really need.

So long as you're lucky, that is.

SS Laser
02-28-2012, 11:36 PM
Steelers fans are a funny breed.

"You don't need a 1st Round LB to get a good ILB", "You don't need a 1st round NT because he only plays 2 downs", "You don't need a 1st round WR/RB/TE/CB/FS"...etc, etc.


OK- you know what? You're all right- you DON'T 'need' a 1st round anything. There are numerous examples of lower round players doing the job of highly touted 1st Rounders.

So let's say what we really think- the Steelers should simply trade all their high picks away for multiple 5th/6th & 7th rounders- because that's all you really need.

So long as you're lucky, that is.

:Agree :Clap :HeadBanger :Beer :moon :Bow :mrgreen: :lol: 8) :shock: :twisted: :oops: :idea: :P :!: :lol: :Bow

I also hope now that the steelers draft hightower so all the threads were worth it! :tt2

pfelix73
02-28-2012, 11:43 PM
Well Dee, like I said earlier, you have me sold on Hightower. However, if both he and Poe are there at 24, I still think that Poe is the greater need and probably the BPA at that point. With Hokie retiring, they need big time help at NG. Not that they don't at ILB. Tough decision- but I'd lean Poe right now...or just freakin flip a coin on them...

:tt1

Dee Dub
02-29-2012, 12:57 AM
:Agree :Clap

And you don't need to burn a Rd 1 draft pick for solid ILB. Get solid ILB in mid-rounds.

DeMario Davis
Nigel Bradham

and then two things you hope for, one they transition to a 3-4, and two that you hope to get something out of them by year 2 if not year 3.

Neither one will get on the field in year one other than special teams.

How many Defensive players become starters in Lebeau's system in year one? Hardly any. Whether its Ziggy or Timmons or Heyward their learning curve is 2-3 years. Hightower too will be riding the pine for one year. He is not a Day One starter for Steelers barring any injuries to current Steelers LB corp.

Are you kidding me? When have the Steelers ever drafted a player who in college played in a similar 3-4 zone blitz? Why do you think this? Because LeBeau's 3-4 is more complexed that Saban's 3-4? It's very similar if not nearly identical. Dude I would suggest you wake up because the Steelers are very much interested in Dont'a Hightower. He's spoken with several Steeler scouts and meet with Tomlin and staff on Saturday night.

Anyone that is ok with James Farrior returning next season is asking for a huge hole in the middle of this defense. He is done.

phillyesq
02-29-2012, 09:46 AM
Well, given that BOTH our current ILBs are former 1st Rd picks I'm not sure that holds true.

Foote and Earl Holmes were forth rounders. Chad Brown, Kirkland and Bell second rounders. Jerry O had a nice run, and while I can't remember where he was taken, it certainly wasn't the first.

phillyesq
02-29-2012, 09:53 AM
In the last 20 years, the Steelers have essentially made three boom or bust picks. One of those (Ben) worked very well; the other two (Troy Edwards and Jamain Stephens) did not.

Whenever you take guys from small schools, some boom and some bust (take Ike Taylor from Louisiana-LaFayette vs. Ricardo Colclough from Tusculum, for example...neither was a first rounder, but we struck gold with the guy we took in the 4th, and struck out with the guy we traded up for in the 2nd). With that said, however, I wouldn't necessarily put Ben and Poe in the same category as Stephens and Edwards. To wit:

Jamain Stephens went to North Carolina A & T...Division I-AA school (I suppose they call it the "Football Championship Subdivision" now as opposed to Division I-A's "Bowl Championship Subdivision", but whatever...same thing). Troy Edwards went to Louisiana Tech. Granted, that's where we got Terry Bradshaw too, but that was a different animal. When we drafted Edwards, La. Tech had only been in Division I-A for a decade...they were I-AA up to 1989.

That's different than Miami (OH) from the MAC, which has proven to be a respectable grounds for developing NFL talent, particularly at QB (although most of them are on our roster now...Ben, Byron, and Charlie are all MAC QB's...I'm shocked that we never signed Pennington near the end of his career). Memphis is no slouch either...they've been in Conference USA, and are moving to the Big East after this season. Mike Tomlin and Randy Fichtner coached there, DeAngelo Williams and Isaac Bruce played there, etc.

Fair points Ruthless. Perhaps the Jamaim Stephens / Troy Edwards comparisons weren't fair. In any event, I still see Poe as more of an athlete than a football player, and his significant bust potential is more risk than I am comfortable with in the first.

In any event, maybe your dream of DeCastro will come true. :Cheers

ikestops85
02-29-2012, 10:43 AM
Well Dee, like I said earlier, you have me sold on Hightower. However, if both he and Poe are there at 24, I still think that Poe is the greater need and probably the BPA at that point. With Hokie retiring, they need big time help at NG. Not that they don't at ILB. Tough decision- but I'd lean Poe right now...or just freakin flip a coin on them...

:tt1

I would have trouble taking Poe. Give me a guy who has produced at the college level. Not the workout warrior.

RuthlessBurgher
02-29-2012, 11:17 AM
In any event, maybe your dream of DeCastro will come true. :Cheers

Probably not...but until late April, I'll continue dreamin'!!! :mrgreen:

steelz09
02-29-2012, 11:26 AM
Some are saying that Dont'a Hightower is too slow to be anything but a 2 down LB'er or that he is in adequate in coverage. This is not true. He was a 3 down back at Alabama in Nick Saban's 3-4 zone blitz and although he isnt great in coverage he is far from inadequate. If he isnt the guy you want the Steelers to draft, cool, but dont just make up stuff because about Hightower because he isnt your pick.

Here are some clips of him. Please watch them.

watch the 6 play on this clip. Hightower picks up the back in the flat and has him blanketed. Also you will notice that Hightower was used all over the place. Even off the edge as a DE.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzJ3o1heM5E

These next clips all show how quick he plays. From the ILB spot he is able to get hits on these QB's. And they arent just hits. They are violent hits.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBe6Ez1O ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBe6Ez1OwO4&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fdY8xns ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2fdY8xnsUuY&feature=related)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOYCrxD- ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOYCrxD-4c8&feature=related)

Come on DD .... We all know evidence of him playing against the best and fastest teams in the country (SEC) isn't enough evidence to mitigate these concerns. :)

Oviedo
02-29-2012, 11:31 AM
In the last 20 years, the Steelers have essentially made three boom or bust picks. One of those (Ben) worked very well; the other two (Troy Edwards and Jamain Stephens) did not.

Whenever you take guys from small schools, some boom and some bust (take Ike Taylor from Louisiana-LaFayette vs. Ricardo Colclough from Tusculum, for example...neither was a first rounder, but we struck gold with the guy we took in the 4th, and struck out with the guy we traded up for in the 2nd). With that said, however, I wouldn't necessarily put Ben and Poe in the same category as Stephens and Edwards. To wit:

Jamain Stephens went to North Carolina A & T...Division I-AA school (I suppose they call it the "Football Championship Subdivision" now as opposed to Division I-A's "Bowl Championship Subdivision", but whatever...same thing). Troy Edwards went to Louisiana Tech. Granted, that's where we got Terry Bradshaw too, but that was a different animal. When we drafted Edwards, La. Tech had only been in Division I-A for a decade...they were I-AA up to 1989.

That's different than Miami (OH) from the MAC, which has proven to be a respectable grounds for developing NFL talent, particularly at QB (although most of them are on our roster now...Ben, Byron, and Charlie are all MAC QB's...I'm shocked that we never signed Pennington near the end of his career). Memphis is no slouch either...they've been in Conference USA, and are moving to the Big East after this season. Mike Tomlin and Randy Fichtner coached there, DeAngelo Williams and Isaac Bruce played there, etc.

Fair points Ruthless. Perhaps the Jamaim Stephens / Troy Edwards comparisons weren't fair. In any event, I still see Poe as more of an athlete than a football player, and his significant bust potential is more risk than I am comfortable with in the first.

In any event, maybe your dream of DeCastro will come true. :Cheers

:Agree I also share your concern that Poe has huge bust or at best underperformer potential.

I also share the DeCastro dream. It would be so much easier if someone would just be helpful enough to sign Wallace as a RFA.

steelz09
02-29-2012, 12:36 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzJ3o1heM5E



I think the most impressive play in that clip is around the 1:54 mark. A perfect shed and tackle against the fastest RB (Chris Rainey-FL) in this years draft (based on combine unofficial results that I saw Rainey and L. James tied at a 4.37 I believe.).

Either way, it was impressive that he was able to read the play, take on the block, shed, and tackle a guy of Raineys speed as he was exploding through the hole... otherwise, that would have been a big play.

Dee Dub
02-29-2012, 01:23 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzJ3o1heM5E



I think the most impressive play in that clip is around the 1:54 mark. A perfect shed and tackle against the fastest RB (Chris Rainey-FL) in this years draft (based on combine unofficial results that I saw Rainey and L. James tied at a 4.37 I believe.).

Either way, it was impressive that he was able to read the play, take on the block, shed, and tackle a guy of Raineys speed as he was exploding through the hole... otherwise, that would have been a big play.

Agreed.