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View Full Version : Dont'a Hightower from a scouts perspective.



Dee Dub
02-27-2012, 12:20 AM
ILB-LOLB Dont'a Hightower, #30 (Junior)
Alabama | Grade: 6.20
Ht: 6-3 | Wt: 266 | Sp: 4.74 | Arm: 32 5/8 | Hand: 9 3/4 | Wing: 77 1/4

Notes: First name is pronounced "Don-tay." The Tennessee prep was the state's 3A Mr. Football after recording 168 tackles on defense and scoring 19 touchdowns on offense. Was one of two true freshman starters for the Tide in 2008, playing in all 14 contests with 12 starts at the "Will" spot with his only non-starts to the formation starting the game (nickel package). Recorded 64 tackles, 2 1/2 tackles for loss and zero sacks with one forced fumble. In '09, he started the first four games at "Will" linebacker before suffering a torn ACL in his left knee against Arkansas and taking a medical redshirt. Also saw time at the "Jack" position in passing situations and posted 16-4-1 with one pass breakup for the season. Returned to the starting lineup in '10 and produced 69-3 1/2-0 with three pass breakups while starting all 13 games — started the first four games at the "Mike" linebacker before switching to back to his original "Will" LB position. In '11, he had minor surgery to repair a fracture in his left hand on Aug. 11 but returned to practice the next day. Was the leader of Alabama's No. 1 defense in '11 after registering career highs with 85-11-4 and three pass breakups, one interception, one forced fumble and one blocked kick in 13 games at the "Mike" LB spot. Was a finalist for the Lombardi, Butkus and Chuck Bednarik awards. The two-time team captain received his bachelor's degree in December 2011.

Positives: Powerfully built with exceptional size, body thickness and take-on strength for the inside. Plays big. Can dominate fullbacks at the point of attack — explosive on contact. Extremely stout base. Plays square to the line and stones iso-lead blockers in the hole (see LSU). Can stack, shed and swallow ballcarriers. Physical tackler with knockback power in his body. Reroutes and can control tight ends at the line of scrimmage. Athletic mover for his size. Versatile — has played multiple positions and has the football smarts to line up the defense and handle any LB position. Highly instinctive. Has lined up with his hand in the dirt and can set the edge and swat blockers out of the way. Highly respected, defensive signalcaller. Solid character. Works hard, is committed to the game and is well-versed in an NFL-style defense.

Negatives: Does not always sell out around piles and appears to be protecting himself too much — leaves some production on the field. Can improve his hand use disengaging. Limited range and production in coverage — can be outflanked by speed backs. Has some heaviness in his movement — weight has pushed 270 pounds and might require monitoring. Lacks elite speed and short-area burst to bend the edge. Can expand his pass-rush arsenal. Can do a better job coming to balance and wrapping in space. Average book smarts. Durability requires evaluation.

Summary: A big-bodied, physical run stuffer with deceptive movement skill and edge-setting strength to play outside, Hightower took time to recover from the ACL injury he suffered two years ago and has shown a tendency to play too cautiously since returning to the field. Is regarded as a two-down 3-4 "Mike" linebacker by some NFL teams but might fit best outside in an odd front given his physicality to control the line of scrimmage and stack the corner. Plus, his ability to kick outside on third downs enhances his value. Is scheme-diverse and versatile and has Pro Bowl potential when healthy. Could be most attractive to a big, physical, imposing front such as that of the Jets, Packers, 49ers or Texans.

NFL projection: Late first-round pick.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/0 ... n-strength (http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/02/26/hightower-defined-by-rare-take-on-strength)

I'll add my perspective. I think, like Levon Kirkland, Hightower will improve im pass coverage. Will he ever be great at it? No, but like Kirkland, he has the work ethic and drive to be an every down backer. He will also bring in addition to work ethic and run stuffing ability, a tremendous inside power rush, leadership, and intelligence.

By now I am sure we all know he exceled in Nick Saben's 3-4 zone blitz at Alabama, which is very much as complexed and difficult as LeBeau's scheme. I believe at pick 24, of those who will realistically be there to draft, he is the only player in this draft who can come in on day one and start for the Steelers.

StarSpangledSteeler
02-27-2012, 07:15 AM
ILB-LOLB Dont'a Hightower, #30 (Junior)
Alabama | Grade: 6.20
Ht: 6-3 | Wt: 266 | Sp: 4.74 | Arm: 32 5/8 | Hand: 9 3/4 | Wing: 77 1/4

Notes: First name is pronounced "Don-tay." The Tennessee prep was the state's 3A Mr. Football after recording 168 tackles on defense and scoring 19 touchdowns on offense. Was one of two true freshman starters for the Tide in 2008, playing in all 14 contests with 12 starts at the "Will" spot with his only non-starts to the formation starting the game (nickel package). Recorded 64 tackles, 2 1/2 tackles for loss and zero sacks with one forced fumble. In '09, he started the first four games at "Will" linebacker before suffering a torn ACL in his left knee against Arkansas and taking a medical redshirt. Also saw time at the "Jack" position in passing situations and posted 16-4-1 with one pass breakup for the season. Returned to the starting lineup in '10 and produced 69-3 1/2-0 with three pass breakups while starting all 13 games — started the first four games at the "Mike" linebacker before switching to back to his original "Will" LB position. In '11, he had minor surgery to repair a fracture in his left hand on Aug. 11 but returned to practice the next day. Was the leader of Alabama's No. 1 defense in '11 after registering career highs with 85-11-4 and three pass breakups, one interception, one forced fumble and one blocked kick in 13 games at the "Mike" LB spot. Was a finalist for the Lombardi, Butkus and Chuck Bednarik awards. The two-time team captain received his bachelor's degree in December 2011.

Positives: Powerfully built with exceptional size, body thickness and take-on strength for the inside. Plays big. Can dominate fullbacks at the point of attack — explosive on contact. Extremely stout base. Plays square to the line and stones iso-lead blockers in the hole (see LSU). Can stack, shed and swallow ballcarriers. Physical tackler with knockback power in his body. Reroutes and can control tight ends at the line of scrimmage. Athletic mover for his size. Versatile — has played multiple positions and has the football smarts to line up the defense and handle any LB position. Highly instinctive. Has lined up with his hand in the dirt and can set the edge and swat blockers out of the way. Highly respected, defensive signalcaller. Solid character. Works hard, is committed to the game and is well-versed in an NFL-style defense.

Negatives: Does not always sell out around piles and appears to be protecting himself too much — leaves some production on the field. Can improve his hand use disengaging. Limited range and production in coverage — can be outflanked by speed backs. Has some heaviness in his movement — weight has pushed 270 pounds and might require monitoring. Lacks elite speed and short-area burst to bend the edge. Can expand his pass-rush arsenal. Can do a better job coming to balance and wrapping in space. Average book smarts. Durability requires evaluation.

Summary: A big-bodied, physical run stuffer with deceptive movement skill and edge-setting strength to play outside, Hightower took time to recover from the ACL injury he suffered two years ago and has shown a tendency to play too cautiously since returning to the field. Is regarded as a two-down 3-4 "Mike" linebacker by some NFL teams but might fit best outside in an odd front given his physicality to control the line of scrimmage and stack the corner. Plus, his ability to kick outside on third downs enhances his value. Is scheme-diverse and versatile and has Pro Bowl potential when healthy. Could be most attractive to a big, physical, imposing front such as that of the Jets, Packers, 49ers or Texans.

NFL projection: Late first-round pick.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/0 ... n-strength (http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/02/26/hightower-defined-by-rare-take-on-strength)

I'll add my perspective. I think, like Levon Kirkland, Hightower will improve im pass coverage. Will he ever be great at it? No, but like Kirkland, he has the work ethic and drive to be an every down backer. He will also bring in addition to work ethic and run stuffing ability, a tremendous inside power rush, leadership, and intelligence.

By now I am sure we all know he exceled in Nick Saben's 3-4 zone blitz at Alabama, which is very much as complexed and difficult as LeBeau's scheme. I believe at pick 24, of those who will realistically be there to draft, he is the only player in this draft who can come in on day one and start for the Steelers.


I'm going to post an opposing point of view so please don't take it personal.

My question to you is... What do we really hope to get in return for this first round pick?

Answer... We hope to improve our run defense. That's pretty much it. Hightower is not going to get pressure on the QB very often. He's not going to shut down TE's or slanting WR's very often. He's not going to create a lot of turnovers. He's going to do a good job stuffing the run. How does that help the Steelers against the Patriots, Packers, Saints, and the other elite scoring teams?

This is now a passing league. If you're going to go defense in the first it better be in hopes of shutting down the current NFL offenses. If you were calling for an elite NT, I wouldn't like it, but at least I could almost justify it, because hopefully he's collapsing the pocket, or drawing double teams to free up your stunting DL/LB's so at least you're generating QB pressure to some degree. Or go with an elite CB so the opposing WR isn't five yards open on every route (Willie Gay). I just don't see the return on investment in stuffing the run.

Add to that the fact that the old slow washed up combo of Farrior/Foote is still holding opposing offenses under 100 yards per game (ranked #8 in the NFL) on a defense that is holding opponents to 14.2 points per game (ranked #1 in the NFL). What are hoping to improve? Lowering that number by 2 points? Holding opposing teams to 12.2 points per game? I just don't see how that puts us in crisis mode of drafting a run stuffer at 1.24.

On the other hand, when you're offense is ranked #21 in the NFL in points scored, averaging 20.3 points per game when the top team is averaging 35 points per game, THAT in my opinion is crisis mode. You need to spend your top resources trying to improve that 15 point gap rather than focusing on a 2 point improvement in defensive points allowed.

I think the Rooneys see it the same way. Which is why they grabbed the steering wheel away from Mike Tomlin (for a moment), fired Arians, and hired an O.C. who actually understands X's and O's, in an effort to hopefully put the Steeler bus back on the pavement. I think spending early picks on the OL gives us far more return on our investment. It not only protects our franchise QB, it gives our highly talented WR's more time to get open. It also opens holes in the running game so our 1st round draft pick / star RB doesn't get hit in the back field every other play (and maybe doesn't blow an ACL quite as fast). And as far as goal line goes it would be nice to be able to get a 1 yard push when your first and goal from the 1 against the Ravens, instead of getting stoned 3 straight times.

My point is, drafting OL will contribute directly to scoring more points. And I think the greatest priority right now is scoring points. And protecting our $100 million franchise QB.

Oviedo
02-27-2012, 08:37 AM
ILB-LOLB Dont'a Hightower, #30 (Junior)
Alabama | Grade: 6.20
Ht: 6-3 | Wt: 266 | Sp: 4.74 | Arm: 32 5/8 | Hand: 9 3/4 | Wing: 77 1/4

Notes: First name is pronounced "Don-tay." The Tennessee prep was the state's 3A Mr. Football after recording 168 tackles on defense and scoring 19 touchdowns on offense. Was one of two true freshman starters for the Tide in 2008, playing in all 14 contests with 12 starts at the "Will" spot with his only non-starts to the formation starting the game (nickel package). Recorded 64 tackles, 2 1/2 tackles for loss and zero sacks with one forced fumble. In '09, he started the first four games at "Will" linebacker before suffering a torn ACL in his left knee against Arkansas and taking a medical redshirt. Also saw time at the "Jack" position in passing situations and posted 16-4-1 with one pass breakup for the season. Returned to the starting lineup in '10 and produced 69-3 1/2-0 with three pass breakups while starting all 13 games — started the first four games at the "Mike" linebacker before switching to back to his original "Will" LB position. In '11, he had minor surgery to repair a fracture in his left hand on Aug. 11 but returned to practice the next day. Was the leader of Alabama's No. 1 defense in '11 after registering career highs with 85-11-4 and three pass breakups, one interception, one forced fumble and one blocked kick in 13 games at the "Mike" LB spot. Was a finalist for the Lombardi, Butkus and Chuck Bednarik awards. The two-time team captain received his bachelor's degree in December 2011.

Positives: Powerfully built with exceptional size, body thickness and take-on strength for the inside. Plays big. Can dominate fullbacks at the point of attack — explosive on contact. Extremely stout base. Plays square to the line and stones iso-lead blockers in the hole (see LSU). Can stack, shed and swallow ballcarriers. Physical tackler with knockback power in his body. Reroutes and can control tight ends at the line of scrimmage. Athletic mover for his size. Versatile — has played multiple positions and has the football smarts to line up the defense and handle any LB position. Highly instinctive. Has lined up with his hand in the dirt and can set the edge and swat blockers out of the way. Highly respected, defensive signalcaller. Solid character. Works hard, is committed to the game and is well-versed in an NFL-style defense.

Negatives: Does not always sell out around piles and appears to be protecting himself too much — leaves some production on the field. Can improve his hand use disengaging. Limited range and production in coverage — can be outflanked by speed backs. Has some heaviness in his movement — weight has pushed 270 pounds and might require monitoring. Lacks elite speed and short-area burst to bend the edge. Can expand his pass-rush arsenal. Can do a better job coming to balance and wrapping in space. Average book smarts. Durability requires evaluation.

Summary: A big-bodied, physical run stuffer with deceptive movement skill and edge-setting strength to play outside, Hightower took time to recover from the ACL injury he suffered two years ago and has shown a tendency to play too cautiously since returning to the field. Is regarded as a two-down 3-4 "Mike" linebacker by some NFL teams but might fit best outside in an odd front given his physicality to control the line of scrimmage and stack the corner. Plus, his ability to kick outside on third downs enhances his value. Is scheme-diverse and versatile and has Pro Bowl potential when healthy. Could be most attractive to a big, physical, imposing front such as that of the Jets, Packers, 49ers or Texans.

NFL projection: Late first-round pick.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/0 ... n-strength (http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/02/26/hightower-defined-by-rare-take-on-strength)

I'll add my perspective. I think, like Levon Kirkland, Hightower will improve im pass coverage. Will he ever be great at it? No, but like Kirkland, he has the work ethic and drive to be an every down backer. He will also bring in addition to work ethic and run stuffing ability, a tremendous inside power rush, leadership, and intelligence.

By now I am sure we all know he exceled in Nick Saben's 3-4 zone blitz at Alabama, which is very much as complexed and difficult as LeBeau's scheme. I believe at pick 24, of those who will realistically be there to draft, he is the only player in this draft who can come in on day one and start for the Steelers.


I'm going to post an opposing point of view so please don't take it personal.

My question to you is... What do we really hope to get in return for this first round pick?

Answer... We hope to improve our run defense. That's pretty much it. Hightower is not going to get pressure on the QB very often. He's not going to shut down TE's or slanting WR's very often. He's not going to create a lot of turnovers. He's going to do a good job stuffing the run. How does that help the Steelers against the Patriots, Packers, Saints, and the other elite scoring teams?

This is now a passing league. If you're going to go defense in the first it better be in hopes of shutting down the current NFL offenses. If you were calling for an elite NT, I wouldn't like it, but at least I could almost justify it, because hopefully he's collapsing the pocket, or drawing double teams to free up your stunting DL/LB's so at least you're generating QB pressure to some degree. Or go with an elite CB so the opposing WR isn't five yards open on every route (Willie Gay). I just don't see the return on investment in stuffing the run.

Add to that the fact that the old slow washed up combo of Farrior/Foote is still holding opposing offenses under 100 yards per game (ranked #8 in the NFL) on a defense that is holding opponents to 14.2 points per game (ranked #1 in the NFL). What are hoping to improve? Lowering that number by 2 points? Holding opposing teams to 12.2 points per game? I just don't see how that puts us in crisis mode of drafting a run stuffer at 1.24.

On the other hand, when you're offense is ranked #21 in the NFL in points scored, averaging 20.3 points per game when the top team is averaging 35 points per game, THAT in my opinion is crisis mode. You need to spend your top resources trying to improve that 15 point gap rather than focusing on a 2 point improvement in defensive points allowed.

I think the Rooneys see it the same way. Which is why they grabbed the steering wheel away from Mike Tomlin (for a moment), fired Arians, and hired an O.C. who actually understands X's and O's, in an effort to hopefully put the Steeler bus back on the pavement. I think spending early picks on the OL gives us far more return on our investment. It not only protects our franchise QB, it gives our highly talented WR's more time to get open. It also opens holes in the running game so our 1st round draft pick / star RB doesn't get hit in the back field every other play (and maybe doesn't blow an ACL quite as fast). And as far as goal line goes it would be nice to be able to get a 1 yard push when your first and goal from the 1 against the Ravens, instead of getting stoned 3 straight times.

My point is, drafting OL will contribute directly to scoring more points. And I think the greatest priority right now is scoring points. And protecting our $100 million franchise QB.


I totally agree that fixing the OL should be the priority, however if Glenn and DeCastro are both gone do you reach for another OL that may not be able to get on the field in 2012? I really think that is how this is shaping up which is why I see Hightower as a real possiblility.

IMO we at least need a Guard and a Tackle even though I would prefer two Guards and a tackle. If we don't fix the OL it won't matter what Haley tries to do because without a better OL our offense is going to be as ineffective as under Arians.

steelblood
02-27-2012, 08:59 AM
Hightower is not going to get pressure on the QB very often.

I generally agree with your post. However, I have seen Hightower line up at DE in passing situations (including a few spots in the national championship) and get very good pressure on the QB. I think you are underestimating this part of his game. No, he does not have very good speed nor elite quickness. But, he is an athletic guy with good strength, leg drive, balance, and good quickness. Imho, he could pressure QBs in the same manner in which Lamar Woodley does. In short, he can pressure the QB.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVH6yl1LSIM

phillyesq
02-27-2012, 10:52 AM
In a vacuum, I like a lot of what I see and read about Hightower, and think that having a big, versatile linebacker would have to help the defense. My concern comes from investing a first round pick in somebody who might be a two down player but who does not improve the rest of the defense.

If the Steelers invest heavily in a two-down player on defense, I would prefer to see an investment in a NT. Like Hampton in his prime, and even to an extent today, a NT that occupies two blockers frees up the LBers to make players. However, a stud LBer doesn't necessarily make Steve McClendon a better NT.

I would certainly welcome a player like Hightower on the Steelers. Inside, he would be a great compliment to Timmons. If I had to choose between Hightower and an elite OL or DT, I'd probably go with the lineman. In any event, it sounds like there are a lot of players who may be available at 24 who could help the Steelers in the short run and the long run.

pfelix73
02-27-2012, 11:11 AM
I know this is a discussion board for us all to discuss our opinions, however, some of you are just not paying attention in class here. :nono Are you hearing what some in the FO/ local media are saying? 1st of all, it has been widely understood that the FO feels differently than what the majority of the fan base thinks. This was discussed at nauseum last week on the local radio in the Burgh. They are happy with the young OL they have and don't think its as critical as what the fans think. Injuries played a HUGE part in our OL from 2011. 2nd- they are looking at replacing- long-term- 2 positions on defense that are key to the 3-4. That would be both Farriors and Hamptons positions. They NEED to get younger in both. Colbert has hinted at this over the weekend in his PCs. He also stated that because of the OG depth in this draft, they can wait and take a G in the later rounds to compete with the others.

I would love to have Hightower on the Steelers. I would love to have Poe on the Steelers. If both of those are available at 24, I would bet $1 they go with Poe. Tough call. But I would be willing to bet (2 cents) that finding another ILB this year or next, would be easier to find than a wide body such as Poe. Just my thoughts..Ok- so, I'm a cheap skate when it comes to betting....

Defense STILL wins Championships.....

:tt1

RuthlessBurgher
02-27-2012, 11:14 AM
I know this is a discussion board for us all to discuss our opinions, however, some of you are just not paying attention in class here. :nono Are you hearing what some in the FO/ local media are saying? 1st of all, it has been widely understood that the FO feels differently than what the majority of the fan base thinks. This was discussed at nauseum last week on the local radio in the Burgh. They are happy with the young OL they have and don't think its as critical as what the fans think. Injuries played a HUGE part in our OL from 2011. 2nd- they are looking at replacing- long-term- 2 positions on defense that are key to the 3-4. That would be both Farriors and Hamptons positions. They NEED to get younger in both. Colbert has hinted at this over the weekend in his PCs. He also stated that because of the OG depth in this draft, they can wait and take a G in the later rounds to compete with the others.

It's draft season...you take everything our front office says with a huge grain of salt. Some statements may be true, but most of it is probably trying to throw other teams off of our scent.

:stirpot

steelz09
02-27-2012, 11:17 AM
I still think Hightower would complement Timmons very well especially considering us needing a replacement for Farrior.

They are different players...no doubt but thats intriguing.

What Timmons doesn't do particularly well, is what Hightower could provide and vice versa. I think that evaluation is accurate to a certain degree.

The guy may have less "upside" but is more proven and capable of starting as a rookie. Your not going to find that very easily especially since we run a 3-4. I hate the "upside" word so that is why I'm a Hightower fan. I like guys that are proven commodities especialy at his level of competition.

What I don't agreee w/ is how everyone says we need a guy that can cover because it's a passing league.

#1 - I don't know if any LB is going to cover Jimmy Graham and players like that. That is more of a safety and/or larger corner responsibility (i.e. Coretez Allen).

#2 - If your rushing defense is week, most teams don't NEED to throw the ball. They'll just run the ball right down your throat. The fact that we had to sell out to stop Tim Tebow and the Broncos running attack is embarassing and is what knocked us out of the playoffs.

pfelix73
02-27-2012, 11:32 AM
What you are just saying there above, that's why someone like Poe has to be a viable option. Those guys just come around all the time. He just lifted 44 reps of 225 at the combine. His stock may rise to the point where he may be picked ahead of us anyways...

Your right- its just all speculation.. Talk is cheap..

:tt1

grotonsteel
02-27-2012, 11:38 AM
If Steelers draft Donta Hightower in Rd 1 it will be a mind-boggling desicion to me.

So Steelers will be investing 2 1st Rd picks (Timmons+Hightower) + 2 2nd Rd picks(Woodley+Jason W) + Harrison. Why would Steelers invest so much on LB corp? It simply does not make sense.

On top of that they have 2 1st Rd picks on D-line. If Steelers FO go for defense in Rd 1 i would not be happy.


Steelers FO need to stop treating Offense like a step-child. This draft should be offense heavy.

grotonsteel
02-27-2012, 11:39 AM
I'm going to post an opposing point of view so please don't take it personal.

My question to you is... What do we really hope to get in return for this first round pick?

Answer... We hope to improve our run defense. That's pretty much it. Hightower is not going to get pressure on the QB very often. He's not going to shut down TE's or slanting WR's very often. He's not going to create a lot of turnovers. He's going to do a good job stuffing the run. How does that help the Steelers against the Patriots, Packers, Saints, and the other elite scoring teams?

This is now a passing league. If you're going to go defense in the first it better be in hopes of shutting down the current NFL offenses. If you were calling for an elite NT, I wouldn't like it, but at least I could almost justify it, because hopefully he's collapsing the pocket, or drawing double teams to free up your stunting DL/LB's so at least you're generating QB pressure to some degree. Or go with an elite CB so the opposing WR isn't five yards open on every route (Willie Gay). I just don't see the return on investment in stuffing the run.

Add to that the fact that the old slow washed up combo of Farrior/Foote is still holding opposing offenses under 100 yards per game (ranked #8 in the NFL) on a defense that is holding opponents to 14.2 points per game (ranked #1 in the NFL). What are hoping to improve? Lowering that number by 2 points? Holding opposing teams to 12.2 points per game? I just don't see how that puts us in crisis mode of drafting a run stuffer at 1.24.

On the other hand, when you're offense is ranked #21 in the NFL in points scored, averaging 20.3 points per game when the top team is averaging 35 points per game, THAT in my opinion is crisis mode. You need to spend your top resources trying to improve that 15 point gap rather than focusing on a 2 point improvement in defensive points allowed.

I think the Rooneys see it the same way. Which is why they grabbed the steering wheel away from Mike Tomlin (for a moment), fired Arians, and hired an O.C. who actually understands X's and O's, in an effort to hopefully put the Steeler bus back on the pavement. I think spending early picks on the OL gives us far more return on our investment. It not only protects our franchise QB, it gives our highly talented WR's more time to get open. It also opens holes in the running game so our 1st round draft pick / star RB doesn't get hit in the back field every other play (and maybe doesn't blow an ACL quite as fast). And as far as goal line goes it would be nice to be able to get a 1 yard push when your first and goal from the 1 against the Ravens, instead of getting stoned 3 straight times.

My point is, drafting OL will contribute directly to scoring more points. And I think the greatest priority right now is scoring points. And protecting our $100 million franchise QB.


Very well said.... :Clap

:Agree

birtikidis
02-27-2012, 11:41 AM
I think all this talk about the NFL being a passing league is way overblown. What have the Saints accomplished? 1 super bowl. what have the *'s accomplished (without cheating)? two superbowl victories. What have the packers accomplished? 1 super bowl victory. What have the Colts accomplished? 1-1 in the super bowl. Not very impressive. The NFL is, and always will, a league about BALANCE.

steelz09
02-27-2012, 12:06 PM
I think all this talk about the NFL being a passing league is way overblown. What have the Saints accomplished? 1 super bowl. what have the *'s accomplished (without cheating)? two superbowl victories. What have the packers accomplished? 1 super bowl victory. What have the Colts accomplished? 1-1 in the super bowl. Not very impressive. The NFL is, and always will, a league about BALANCE.

I agree.... but as far as the Saints go, I watched a lot of their games last year. They really try to stay balanced and run the ball beteen Ingram and Sproles. The problem was that their defense sucked so they abandon the run.

It's much easier to win a game if you can run the ball between the tackles and pound the rock down the opposing teams throat. If you can do that, you can win just about every game because it helps your defense stay fresh, controls the clock, and allows you to burn teams w/ the play action.

pfelix73
02-27-2012, 12:24 PM
"My point is, drafting OL will contribute directly to scoring more points. And I think the greatest priority right now is scoring points. And protecting our $100 million franchise QB."

How can you say with 100% certainty that drafting more OL will contribute to scoring more points? How about another TE? A FB? Or even another RB?- One who can catch passes out of the backfield?

:tt1

pfelix73
02-27-2012, 12:27 PM
346 lb Poe just ran a 4.87 40. Not bad for a big man.

steeler_george
02-27-2012, 12:35 PM
ILB-LOLB Dont'a Hightower, #30 (Junior)
Alabama | Grade: 6.20
Ht: 6-3 | Wt: 266 | Sp: 4.74 | Arm: 32 5/8 | Hand: 9 3/4 | Wing: 77 1/4

Notes: First name is pronounced "Don-tay." The Tennessee prep was the state's 3A Mr. Football after recording 168 tackles on defense and scoring 19 touchdowns on offense. Was one of two true freshman starters for the Tide in 2008, playing in all 14 contests with 12 starts at the "Will" spot with his only non-starts to the formation starting the game (nickel package). Recorded 64 tackles, 2 1/2 tackles for loss and zero sacks with one forced fumble. In '09, he started the first four games at "Will" linebacker before suffering a torn ACL in his left knee against Arkansas and taking a medical redshirt. Also saw time at the "Jack" position in passing situations and posted 16-4-1 with one pass breakup for the season. Returned to the starting lineup in '10 and produced 69-3 1/2-0 with three pass breakups while starting all 13 games — started the first four games at the "Mike" linebacker before switching to back to his original "Will" LB position. In '11, he had minor surgery to repair a fracture in his left hand on Aug. 11 but returned to practice the next day. Was the leader of Alabama's No. 1 defense in '11 after registering career highs with 85-11-4 and three pass breakups, one interception, one forced fumble and one blocked kick in 13 games at the "Mike" LB spot. Was a finalist for the Lombardi, Butkus and Chuck Bednarik awards. The two-time team captain received his bachelor's degree in December 2011.

Positives: Powerfully built with exceptional size, body thickness and take-on strength for the inside. Plays big. Can dominate fullbacks at the point of attack — explosive on contact. Extremely stout base. Plays square to the line and stones iso-lead blockers in the hole (see LSU). Can stack, shed and swallow ballcarriers. Physical tackler with knockback power in his body. Reroutes and can control tight ends at the line of scrimmage. Athletic mover for his size. Versatile — has played multiple positions and has the football smarts to line up the defense and handle any LB position. Highly instinctive. Has lined up with his hand in the dirt and can set the edge and swat blockers out of the way. Highly respected, defensive signalcaller. Solid character. Works hard, is committed to the game and is well-versed in an NFL-style defense.

Negatives: Does not always sell out around piles and appears to be protecting himself too much — leaves some production on the field. Can improve his hand use disengaging. Limited range and production in coverage — can be outflanked by speed backs. Has some heaviness in his movement — weight has pushed 270 pounds and might require monitoring. Lacks elite speed and short-area burst to bend the edge. Can expand his pass-rush arsenal. Can do a better job coming to balance and wrapping in space. Average book smarts. Durability requires evaluation.

Summary: A big-bodied, physical run stuffer with deceptive movement skill and edge-setting strength to play outside, Hightower took time to recover from the ACL injury he suffered two years ago and has shown a tendency to play too cautiously since returning to the field. Is regarded as a two-down 3-4 "Mike" linebacker by some NFL teams but might fit best outside in an odd front given his physicality to control the line of scrimmage and stack the corner. Plus, his ability to kick outside on third downs enhances his value. Is scheme-diverse and versatile and has Pro Bowl potential when healthy. Could be most attractive to a big, physical, imposing front such as that of the Jets, Packers, 49ers or Texans.

NFL projection: Late first-round pick.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/0 ... n-strength (http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/02/26/hightower-defined-by-rare-take-on-strength)

I'll add my perspective. I think, like Levon Kirkland, Hightower will improve im pass coverage. Will he ever be great at it? No, but like Kirkland, he has the work ethic and drive to be an every down backer. He will also bring in addition to work ethic and run stuffing ability, a tremendous inside power rush, leadership, and intelligence.

By now I am sure we all know he exceled in Nick Saben's 3-4 zone blitz at Alabama, which is very much as complexed and difficult as LeBeau's scheme. I believe at pick 24, of those who will realistically be there to draft, he is the only player in this draft who can come in on day one and start for the Steelers.


I'm going to post an opposing point of view so please don't take it personal.

My question to you is... What do we really hope to get in return for this first round pick?

Answer... We hope to improve our run defense. That's pretty much it. Hightower is not going to get pressure on the QB very often. He's not going to shut down TE's or slanting WR's very often. He's not going to create a lot of turnovers. He's going to do a good job stuffing the run. How does that help the Steelers against the Patriots, Packers, Saints, and the other elite scoring teams?

This is now a passing league. If you're going to go defense in the first it better be in hopes of shutting down the current NFL offenses. If you were calling for an elite NT, I wouldn't like it, but at least I could almost justify it, because hopefully he's collapsing the pocket, or drawing double teams to free up your stunting DL/LB's so at least you're generating QB pressure to some degree. Or go with an elite CB so the opposing WR isn't five yards open on every route (Willie Gay). I just don't see the return on investment in stuffing the run.

Add to that the fact that the old slow washed up combo of Farrior/Foote is still holding opposing offenses under 100 yards per game (ranked #8 in the NFL) on a defense that is holding opponents to 14.2 points per game (ranked #1 in the NFL). What are hoping to improve? Lowering that number by 2 points? Holding opposing teams to 12.2 points per game? I just don't see how that puts us in crisis mode of drafting a run stuffer at 1.24.

On the other hand, when you're offense is ranked #21 in the NFL in points scored, averaging 20.3 points per game when the top team is averaging 35 points per game, THAT in my opinion is crisis mode. You need to spend your top resources trying to improve that 15 point gap rather than focusing on a 2 point improvement in defensive points allowed.

I think the Rooneys see it the same way. Which is why they grabbed the steering wheel away from Mike Tomlin (for a moment), fired Arians, and hired an O.C. who actually understands X's and O's, in an effort to hopefully put the Steeler bus back on the pavement. I think spending early picks on the OL gives us far more return on our investment. It not only protects our franchise QB, it gives our highly talented WR's more time to get open. It also opens holes in the running game so our 1st round draft pick / star RB doesn't get hit in the back field every other play (and maybe doesn't blow an ACL quite as fast). And as far as goal line goes it would be nice to be able to get a 1 yard push when your first and goal from the 1 against the Ravens, instead of getting stoned 3 straight times.

My point is, drafting OL will contribute directly to scoring more points. And I think the greatest priority right now is scoring points. And protecting our $100 million franchise QB.

Great Post I agree 100%

The first round selection is going to be BPA on he Offensive Line either guard or Tackle.

Having a more efficient and potent offense will put us in the category of the Patriots and GB, whose O is so efficient putting up TDs on the score board, that they pressure the other teams O to play flawless, which eventually leads them to make mistakes.

Imagine the Ptriots, and GB with a decent defense.... that could be us.

phillyesq
02-27-2012, 01:00 PM
What you are just saying there above, that's why someone like Poe has to be a viable option. Those guys just come around all the time. He just lifted 44 reps of 225 at the combine. His stock may rise to the point where he may be picked ahead of us anyways...

Your right- its just all speculation.. Talk is cheap..

:tt1

IF Poe can play, he is the kind of player I'd love to see. A huge force on the DL who would command double teams a create havoc.

However, I think with Poe the question is not the physical tools, but whether he can play.

steelz09
02-27-2012, 01:02 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":ui1zbw61]ILB-LOLB Dont'a Hightower, #30 (Junior)
Alabama | Grade: 6.20
Ht: 6-3 | Wt: 266 | Sp: 4.74 | Arm: 32 5/8 | Hand: 9 3/4 | Wing: 77 1/4

Notes: First name is pronounced "Don-tay." The Tennessee prep was the state's 3A Mr. Football after recording 168 tackles on defense and scoring 19 touchdowns on offense. Was one of two true freshman starters for the Tide in 2008, playing in all 14 contests with 12 starts at the "Will" spot with his only non-starts to the formation starting the game (nickel package). Recorded 64 tackles, 2 1/2 tackles for loss and zero sacks with one forced fumble. In '09, he started the first four games at "Will" linebacker before suffering a torn ACL in his left knee against Arkansas and taking a medical redshirt. Also saw time at the "Jack" position in passing situations and posted 16-4-1 with one pass breakup for the season. Returned to the starting lineup in '10 and produced 69-3 1/2-0 with three pass breakups while starting all 13 games — started the first four games at the "Mike" linebacker before switching to back to his original "Will" LB position. In '11, he had minor surgery to repair a fracture in his left hand on Aug. 11 but returned to practice the next day. Was the leader of Alabama's No. 1 defense in '11 after registering career highs with 85-11-4 and three pass breakups, one interception, one forced fumble and one blocked kick in 13 games at the "Mike" LB spot. Was a finalist for the Lombardi, Butkus and Chuck Bednarik awards. The two-time team captain received his bachelor's degree in December 2011.

Positives: Powerfully built with exceptional size, body thickness and take-on strength for the inside. Plays big. Can dominate fullbacks at the point of attack — explosive on contact. Extremely stout base. Plays square to the line and stones iso-lead blockers in the hole (see LSU). Can stack, shed and swallow ballcarriers. Physical tackler with knockback power in his body. Reroutes and can control tight ends at the line of scrimmage. Athletic mover for his size. Versatile — has played multiple positions and has the football smarts to line up the defense and handle any LB position. Highly instinctive. Has lined up with his hand in the dirt and can set the edge and swat blockers out of the way. Highly respected, defensive signalcaller. Solid character. Works hard, is committed to the game and is well-versed in an NFL-style defense.

Negatives: Does not always sell out around piles and appears to be protecting himself too much — leaves some production on the field. Can improve his hand use disengaging. Limited range and production in coverage — can be outflanked by speed backs. Has some heaviness in his movement — weight has pushed 270 pounds and might require monitoring. Lacks elite speed and short-area burst to bend the edge. Can expand his pass-rush arsenal. Can do a better job coming to balance and wrapping in space. Average book smarts. Durability requires evaluation.

Summary: A big-bodied, physical run stuffer with deceptive movement skill and edge-setting strength to play outside, Hightower took time to recover from the ACL injury he suffered two years ago and has shown a tendency to play too cautiously since returning to the field. Is regarded as a two-down 3-4 "Mike" linebacker by some NFL teams but might fit best outside in an odd front given his physicality to control the line of scrimmage and stack the corner. Plus, his ability to kick outside on third downs enhances his value. Is scheme-diverse and versatile and has Pro Bowl potential when healthy. Could be most attractive to a big, physical, imposing front such as that of the Jets, Packers, 49ers or Texans.

NFL projection: Late first-round pick.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/0 ... n-strength (http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/02/26/hightower-defined-by-rare-take-on-strength)

I'll add my perspective. I think, like Levon Kirkland, Hightower will improve im pass coverage. Will he ever be great at it? No, but like Kirkland, he has the work ethic and drive to be an every down backer. He will also bring in addition to work ethic and run stuffing ability, a tremendous inside power rush, leadership, and intelligence.

By now I am sure we all know he exceled in Nick Saben's 3-4 zone blitz at Alabama, which is very much as complexed and difficult as LeBeau's scheme. I believe at pick 24, of those who will realistically be there to draft, he is the only player in this draft who can come in on day one and start for the Steelers.


I'm going to post an opposing point of view so please don't take it personal.

My question to you is... What do we really hope to get in return for this first round pick?

Answer... We hope to improve our run defense. That's pretty much it. Hightower is not going to get pressure on the QB very often. He's not going to shut down TE's or slanting WR's very often. He's not going to create a lot of turnovers. He's going to do a good job stuffing the run. How does that help the Steelers against the Patriots, Packers, Saints, and the other elite scoring teams?

This is now a passing league. If you're going to go defense in the first it better be in hopes of shutting down the current NFL offenses. If you were calling for an elite NT, I wouldn't like it, but at least I could almost justify it, because hopefully he's collapsing the pocket, or drawing double teams to free up your stunting DL/LB's so at least you're generating QB pressure to some degree. Or go with an elite CB so the opposing WR isn't five yards open on every route (Willie Gay). I just don't see the return on investment in stuffing the run.

Add to that the fact that the old slow washed up combo of Farrior/Foote is still holding opposing offenses under 100 yards per game (ranked #8 in the NFL) on a defense that is holding opponents to 14.2 points per game (ranked #1 in the NFL). What are hoping to improve? Lowering that number by 2 points? Holding opposing teams to 12.2 points per game? I just don't see how that puts us in crisis mode of drafting a run stuffer at 1.24.

On the other hand, when you're offense is ranked #21 in the NFL in points scored, averaging 20.3 points per game when the top team is averaging 35 points per game, THAT in my opinion is crisis mode. You need to spend your top resources trying to improve that 15 point gap rather than focusing on a 2 point improvement in defensive points allowed.

I think the Rooneys see it the same way. Which is why they grabbed the steering wheel away from Mike Tomlin (for a moment), fired Arians, and hired an O.C. who actually understands X's and O's, in an effort to hopefully put the Steeler bus back on the pavement. I think spending early picks on the OL gives us far more return on our investment. It not only protects our franchise QB, it gives our highly talented WR's more time to get open. It also opens holes in the running game so our 1st round draft pick / star RB doesn't get hit in the back field every other play (and maybe doesn't blow an ACL quite as fast). And as far as goal line goes it would be nice to be able to get a 1 yard push when your first and goal from the 1 against the Ravens, instead of getting stoned 3 straight times.

My point is, drafting OL will contribute directly to scoring more points. And I think the greatest priority right now is scoring points. And protecting our $100 million franchise QB.

Great Post I agree 100%

The first round selection is going to be BPA on he Offensive Line either guard or Tackle.

Having a more efficient and potent offense will put us in the category of the Patriots and GB, whose O is so efficient putting up TDs on the score board, that they pressure the other teams O to play flawless, which eventually leads them to make mistakes.

Imagine the Ptriots, and GB with a decent defense.... that could be us.[/quote:ui1zbw61]

A T is the first? For what? Colon and Gilbert are penciled in right now. I would love to get Glenn because he could start a G and backup the tackle position but I don't thnk we'll have a chance. I actually see him leaping DeCastro because of that reason (G or T) position flexibility.

pfelix73
02-27-2012, 01:23 PM
What you are just saying there above, that's why someone like Poe has to be a viable option. Those guys just come around all the time. He just lifted 44 reps of 225 at the combine. His stock may rise to the point where he may be picked ahead of us anyways...

Your right- its just all speculation.. Talk is cheap..

:tt1

IF Poe can play, he is the kind of player I'd love to see. A huge force on the DL who would command double teams a create havoc.

However, I think with Poe the question is not the physical tools, but whether he can play.


I think you ask that with everyone that is drafted. You never know on anyone. However, this guy has tremendous upside and will only get better as he plays in the NFL. Get him under this veteran group and wow, I think he could be our next 3-4 NG for the next 10 years. Yup, he'll take alot of double teams up front- ie our buddy in Baltimore....

Dee Dub
02-27-2012, 01:35 PM
Hightower is not going to get pressure on the QB very often.

I generally agree with your post. However, I have seen Hightower line up at DE in passing situations (including a few spots in the national championship) and get very good pressure on the QB. I think you are underestimating this part of his game. No, he does not have very good speed nor elite quickness. But, he is an athletic guy with good strength, leg drive, balance, and good quickness. Imho, he could pressure QBs in the same manner in which Lamar Woodley does. In short, he can pressure the QB.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVH6yl1LSIM

Agreed with you steelblood. Not sure where he got this from. He has also shown great blitzing ability coming from inside at the backer position. I've seen him flat out blow up pass blockers and totally collapsing the pocket inside.

And anyone who thinks he is a liability in coverage hasn't seen much of him. He inst Lance Briggs but he isnt a slouch either.

Dee Dub
02-27-2012, 01:38 PM
I totally agree that fixing the OL should be the priority, however if Glenn and DeCastro are both gone do you reach for another OL that may not be able to get on the field in 2012? I really think that is how this is shaping up which is why I see Hightower as a real possiblility.



This is the whole point that many Steeler fans keep overlooking. There inst going to be a legit O-line who can come in on year one and contribute at pick 24. So do we draft one just to be drafting one for two years down the line? Or should we get the one player who fills a need and can play day one?

Dee Dub
02-27-2012, 01:42 PM
If Steelers draft Donta Hightower in Rd 1 it will be a mind-boggling desicion to me.

So Steelers will be investing 2 1st Rd picks (Timmons+Hightower) + 2 2nd Rd picks(Woodley+Jason W) + Harrison. Why would Steelers invest so much on LB corp? It simply does not make sense.

On top of that they have 2 1st Rd picks on D-line. If Steelers FO go for defense in Rd 1 i would not be happy.


Steelers FO need to stop treating Offense like a step-child. This draft should be offense heavy.

Ok...who's offensive pick at 24 that will make an immediate impact next or even an just impact?

Dee Dub
02-27-2012, 01:44 PM
I know this is a discussion board for us all to discuss our opinions, however, some of you are just not paying attention in class here. :nono Are you hearing what some in the FO/ local media are saying? 1st of all, it has been widely understood that the FO feels differently than what the majority of the fan base thinks. This was discussed at nauseum last week on the local radio in the Burgh. They are happy with the young OL they have and don't think its as critical as what the fans think. Injuries played a HUGE part in our OL from 2011. 2nd- they are looking at replacing- long-term- 2 positions on defense that are key to the 3-4. That would be both Farriors and Hamptons positions. They NEED to get younger in both. Colbert has hinted at this over the weekend in his PCs. He also stated that because of the OG depth in this draft, they can wait and take a G in the later rounds to compete with the others.

It's draft season...you take everything our front office says with a huge grain of salt. Some statements may be true, but most of it is probably trying to throw other teams off of our scent.

:stirpot

True..but they were saying it during the season. I read several times that they were pleased with the work that Legursky and Foster did at guard. They see Legursky as a bonafide pulling LG. Now they are moving Gilbert to LT and counting on Willie Colon at tackle. So if a legit O-line isnt there at 24 why would they draft one?

Slapstick
02-27-2012, 01:49 PM
Colbert has never been a guy to draft a position, especially in round one, for the sake of drafting a position...

The Steelers will take the best player available at #24...if that player is an o-lineman, then so be it...

But, they will not overdraft a lineman...that is the recipe for disaster...

Dee Dub
02-27-2012, 01:50 PM
I know this is a discussion board for us all to discuss our opinions, however, some of you are just not paying attention in class here. :nono Are you hearing what some in the FO/ local media are saying? 1st of all, it has been widely understood that the FO feels differently than what the majority of the fan base thinks. This was discussed at nauseum last week on the local radio in the Burgh. They are happy with the young OL they have and don't think its as critical as what the fans think. Injuries played a HUGE part in our OL from 2011. 2nd- they are looking at replacing- long-term- 2 positions on defense that are key to the 3-4. That would be both Farriors and Hamptons positions. They NEED to get younger in both. Colbert has hinted at this over the weekend in his PCs. He also stated that because of the OG depth in this draft, they can wait and take a G in the later rounds to compete with the others.

I would love to have Hightower on the Steelers. I would love to have Poe on the Steelers. If both of those are available at 24, I would bet $1 they go with Poe. Tough call. But I would be willing to bet (2 cents) that finding another ILB this year or next, would be easier to find than a wide body such as Poe. Just my thoughts..Ok- so, I'm a cheap skate when it comes to betting....

Defense STILL wins Championships.....

:tt1

:Clap The "I Get It" award of the year.

Only thing though, Poe is better suited outside on a 3-4 or inside in a 4-3. He is not a natural NT for a 3-4. And you arent going to get much out of him in year one (Hampton back and his learning curve).

Dee Dub
02-27-2012, 01:55 PM
What you are just saying there above, that's why someone like Poe has to be a viable option. Those guys just come around all the time. He just lifted 44 reps of 225 at the combine. His stock may rise to the point where he may be picked ahead of us anyways...

Your right- its just all speculation.. Talk is cheap..

:tt1

IF Poe can play, he is the kind of player I'd love to see. A huge force on the DL who would command double teams a create havoc.

However, I think with Poe the question is not the physical tools, but whether he can play.


I think you ask that with everyone that is drafted. You never know on anyone. However, this guy has tremendous upside and will only get better as he plays in the NFL. Get him under this veteran group and wow, I think he could be our next 3-4 NG for the next 10 years. Yup, he'll take alot of double teams up front- ie our buddy in Baltimore....

Comparisons to Ngata are fair for Poe but dont forget Ngata was moved out in Baltimore's 3-4. Just like Poe he is better suited there than at NT.

Oviedo
02-27-2012, 01:56 PM
I totally agree that fixing the OL should be the priority, however if Glenn and DeCastro are both gone do you reach for another OL that may not be able to get on the field in 2012? I really think that is how this is shaping up which is why I see Hightower as a real possiblility.



This is the whole point that many Steeler fans keep overlooking. There inst going to be a legit O-line who can come in on year one and contribute at pick 24. So do we draft one just to be drafting one for two years down the line? Or should we get the one player who fills a need and can play day one?


Didn't Gilbert come in as a Round 2 pick and contribute starting Day 1 or soon thereafter????

I think a number of Guards in this draft could replace the ones we have now and do well.

Dee Dub
02-27-2012, 02:10 PM
One other thing about Hightower that needs to be considered. Because he was able to to so for Saben in his zone blitz, I believe he will be able to come in and make the defensive calls for the Steelers. That is a very rare thing for a defensive rookie in the complexed 3-4 zone blitz. This is an attribute that should stand out just as importantly any negatives he may have.

Dee Dub
02-27-2012, 02:12 PM
I totally agree that fixing the OL should be the priority, however if Glenn and DeCastro are both gone do you reach for another OL that may not be able to get on the field in 2012? I really think that is how this is shaping up which is why I see Hightower as a real possiblility.



This is the whole point that many Steeler fans keep overlooking. There inst going to be a legit O-line who can come in on year one and contribute at pick 24. So do we draft one just to be drafting one for two years down the line? Or should we get the one player who fills a need and can play day one?


Didn't Gilbert come in as a Round 2 pick and contribute starting Day 1 or soon thereafter????

I think a number of Guards in this draft could replace the ones we have now and do well.

Yes, but that is not the norm. And had there not been injuries, he probably would have sat the entire year or a big part of it.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-27-2012, 02:52 PM
Everyone is saying Poe is best suited on the inside as a 4-3 DT or a 3-4 NT. Afetr seeing his workout some said his athleticism suggest he may be able to play a 5 technique but with 32" arms...He is best suited inside.

That being said, I agree with Dub and the others that suggest if Glenn is gone it looks like a defensive pick. If Poe & Hightower are both sitting there it will be the one they like better on their board. Right now, I won't predict.

As far as people saying the Steelers don't draft positions, the Steelers stay true to their board. If there is someone in reach at a position of need the even move up. They will not overdraft on need and it has been said they look to trade down or take BPA. If Decastro & Glenn are off the board...I really don't see any OL that wouldn't be a reach.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-27-2012, 03:06 PM
Very nice 40 for Hightower 4.61. Like to see some good cone times and hope the show his positional drills.

phillyesq
02-27-2012, 03:13 PM
What you are just saying there above, that's why someone like Poe has to be a viable option. Those guys just come around all the time. He just lifted 44 reps of 225 at the combine. His stock may rise to the point where he may be picked ahead of us anyways...

Your right- its just all speculation.. Talk is cheap..

:tt1

IF Poe can play, he is the kind of player I'd love to see. A huge force on the DL who would command double teams a create havoc.

However, I think with Poe the question is not the physical tools, but whether he can play.


I think you ask that with everyone that is drafted. You never know on anyone. However, this guy has tremendous upside and will only get better as he plays in the NFL. Get him under this veteran group and wow, I think he could be our next 3-4 NG for the next 10 years. Yup, he'll take alot of double teams up front- ie our buddy in Baltimore....

I've never seen Poe play, but he seems like more of a high risk/high reward guy, which doesn't really fit how the Steelers typically draft. The Steelers almost always draft a productive player from a major college program. The recent exceptions are:

Ben (worked out well)
Troy Edwards (bust)
Jamain Stephens (bust and a half)

I think the Steelers will likely go the safe route, as they typically do.

I suppose my biggest concern on Poe is this -- if he can play, how does he last until 24???

phillyesq
02-27-2012, 03:18 PM
[quote=Oviedo]

I totally agree that fixing the OL should be the priority, however if Glenn and DeCastro are both gone do you reach for another OL that may not be able to get on the field in 2012? I really think that is how this is shaping up which is why I see Hightower as a real possiblility.



This is the whole point that many Steeler fans keep overlooking. There inst going to be a legit O-line who can come in on year one and contribute at pick 24. So do we draft one just to be drafting one for two years down the line? Or should we get the one player who fills a need and can play day one?


Didn't Gilbert come in as a Round 2 pick and contribute starting Day 1 or soon thereafter????

I think a number of Guards in this draft could replace the ones we have now and do well.

Yes, but that is not the norm. And had there not been injuries, he probably would have sat the entire year or a big part of it.[/quote:1x4vhsz5]

Dub, one area where the Steelers have routinely started highly drafted players as rookies is OG. I'm pretty sure that both Faneca and Simmons started by the end of their rookie seasons. This is going back a bit, but so did Brendan Stai, a third round pick.

In any event, the Steelers don't focus on who will contribute the most in year 1, nor should they. I want the Steelers to take the player who will provide the most value over the life of his initial contract and ideally for a decade, and that is how they draft.

BigRob
02-27-2012, 03:19 PM
Very nice 40 for Hightower 4.61. Like to see some good cone times and hope the show his positional drills.

****e, Dee Dub has me convinced.

Hightower's speed was my biggest concern. His ability to pressure off the edge or in the middle, his good enough forty time, his ability to stuff the run at 265lbs, and his knowledge of a 3-4 MLB position coming out of college is going to force me to put him in position to be our number one pick.

We could do much worse.

Dee Dub
02-27-2012, 03:50 PM
[quote=Oviedo]

I totally agree that fixing the OL should be the priority, however if Glenn and DeCastro are both gone do you reach for another OL that may not be able to get on the field in 2012? I really think that is how this is shaping up which is why I see Hightower as a real possiblility.



This is the whole point that many Steeler fans keep overlooking. There inst going to be a legit O-line who can come in on year one and contribute at pick 24. So do we draft one just to be drafting one for two years down the line? Or should we get the one player who fills a need and can play day one?


Didn't Gilbert come in as a Round 2 pick and contribute starting Day 1 or soon thereafter????

I think a number of Guards in this draft could replace the ones we have now and do well.

Yes, but that is not the norm. And had there not been injuries, he probably would have sat the entire year or a big part of it.

Dub, one area where the Steelers have routinely started highly drafted players as rookies is OG. I'm pretty sure that both Faneca and Simmons started by the end of their rookie seasons. This is going back a bit, but so did Brendan Stai, a third round pick.

In any event, the Steelers don't focus on who will contribute the most in year 1, nor should they. I want the Steelers to take the player who will provide the most value over the life of his initial contract and ideally for a decade, and that is how they draft.[/quote:2dxiizyh]

Agreed but remember both Faneca and Simmons were the top guards in their respective drafts. At 24 the Steelers are getting that.

Shawn
02-27-2012, 04:46 PM
I haven't seen Tomlin draft a thumper type of linebacker since he has been here. All have been leaner and more athletic. Don't get me wrong, I think Hightower is a beast, but his limited range will guys like Bellichick drooling. I don't believe this pick will happen. If it's ILB, I think the clear choice is Zach Brown.

Dee Dub
02-27-2012, 05:46 PM
I haven't seen Tomlin draft a thumper type of linebacker since he has been here. All have been leaner and more athletic. Don't get me wrong, I think Hightower is a beast, but his limited range will guys like Bellichick drooling. I don't believe this pick will happen. If it's ILB, I think the clear choice is Zach Brown.

Shawn, are you serious? That's what you are going on? Why would he look at ILB when he already had two proven starters there? Now that Farrior has declined to a point where he is nearly a non-factor it is a necessity.

Tomlin hasnt drafted a thumper at SS safety either but we should know why, right?

It would take Zack Brown 2 plus years to get on the field in this 3-4 zone blitz. Hightower has already excelled in it. He plays day one.

Shawn
02-27-2012, 05:51 PM
I haven't seen Tomlin draft a thumper type of linebacker since he has been here. All have been leaner and more athletic. Don't get me wrong, I think Hightower is a beast, but his limited range will guys like Bellichick drooling. I don't believe this pick will happen. If it's ILB, I think the clear choice is Zach Brown.

Shawn, are you serious? That's what you are going on? Why would he look at ILB when he already had two proven starters there? Now that Farrior has declined to a point where he is nearly a non-factor it is a necessity.

Tomlin hasnt drafted a thumper at SS safety either but we should know why, right?

It would take Zack Brown 2 plus years to get on the field in this 3-4 zone blitz. Hightower has already excelled in it. He plays day one.

I have no idea what half of that meant...but not sure why you get worked up when people disagree with you. I would be utterly shocked if Hightower is the pick. Hightower can not stay up with Grownkowski...or a slot. His ability to cover is inadequate. Sure he is sharp, can call plays and stop the run. Great. But, Tomlin will ask his ILB to have range, and ability to cover. Farrior will play one more season, Brown steps in 2013.

phillyesq
02-27-2012, 06:28 PM
Agreed but remember both Faneca and Simmons were the top guards in their respective drafts. At 24 the Steelers are getting that.

At 24, the Steelers aren't getting DeCastro, but if they get Glenn, I bet he finds his way onto the field by week 6. If not Glenn or DeCastro, I don't see any OG or even OT that I like at 24, and I think the Steelers look for OL in round 2 or later.

RuthlessBurgher
02-27-2012, 06:29 PM
Agreed but remember both Faneca and Simmons were the top guards in their respective drafts. At 24 the Steelers are getting that.

At 24, the Steelers aren't getting DeCastro, but if they get Glenn, I bet he finds his way onto the field by week 6. If not Glenn or DeCastro, I don't see any OG or even OT that I like at 24, and I think the Steelers look for OL in round 2 or later.

:Agree

Dee Dub
02-27-2012, 06:45 PM
I haven't seen Tomlin draft a thumper type of linebacker since he has been here. All have been leaner and more athletic. Don't get me wrong, I think Hightower is a beast, but his limited range will guys like Bellichick drooling. I don't believe this pick will happen. If it's ILB, I think the clear choice is Zach Brown.

Shawn, are you serious? That's what you are going on? Why would he look at ILB when he already had two proven starters there? Now that Farrior has declined to a point where he is nearly a non-factor it is a necessity.

Tomlin hasnt drafted a thumper at SS safety either but we should know why, right?

It would take Zack Brown 2 plus years to get on the field in this 3-4 zone blitz. Hightower has already excelled in it. He plays day one.

I have no idea what half of that meant...but not sure why you get worked up when people disagree with you. I would be utterly shocked if Hightower is the pick. Hightower can not stay up with Grownkowski...or a slot. His ability to cover is inadequate. Sure he is sharp, can call plays and stop the run. Great. But, Tomlin will ask his ILB to have range, and ability to cover. Farrior will play one more season, Brown steps in 2013.

Come on dude I'm just messin with you. But I will say this. you dont know the Steelers defense that well do you? Lawrence Timmons normally brackets the opposing TE. Steelers need to replace Farrior not Timmons.

And I disagree about Hightower being inadequate in coverage. He isnt great but he is far from being inadequate. I saw every game he played this year. Id didnt see inadequate. Neither did Saban. Go to the tape and you wont see him on the sideline on 3rd downs.


And Tomlin doesnt run this defense. LeBeau does. And he's had two ILB similar to Hightower int the past.

Dee Dub
02-27-2012, 06:48 PM
Agreed but remember both Faneca and Simmons were the top guards in their respective drafts. At 24 the Steelers are getting that.

At 24, the Steelers aren't getting DeCastro, but if they get Glenn, I bet he finds his way onto the field by week 6. If not Glenn or DeCastro, I don't see any OG or even OT that I like at 24, and I think the Steelers look for OL in round 2 or later.

:Agree

"If" and Butts were Candy and Nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas. Or if "If" was a Fifth we'd all be drunk.

Cordy Glenn isnt going to be there at 24.

But I think I am more than once on record about Cordy Glenn so no need to preach to the Choir.

NJ-STEELER
02-27-2012, 06:57 PM
ILB-LOLB Dont'a Hightower, #30 (Junior)
Alabama | Grade: 6.20
Ht: 6-3 | Wt: 266 | Sp: 4.74 | Arm: 32 5/8 | Hand: 9 3/4 | Wing: 77 1/4

Notes: First name is pronounced "Don-tay." The Tennessee prep was the state's 3A Mr. Football after recording 168 tackles on defense and scoring 19 touchdowns on offense. Was one of two true freshman starters for the Tide in 2008, playing in all 14 contests with 12 starts at the "Will" spot with his only non-starts to the formation starting the game (nickel package). Recorded 64 tackles, 2 1/2 tackles for loss and zero sacks with one forced fumble. In '09, he started the first four games at "Will" linebacker before suffering a torn ACL in his left knee against Arkansas and taking a medical redshirt. Also saw time at the "Jack" position in passing situations and posted 16-4-1 with one pass breakup for the season. Returned to the starting lineup in '10 and produced 69-3 1/2-0 with three pass breakups while starting all 13 games — started the first four games at the "Mike" linebacker before switching to back to his original "Will" LB position. In '11, he had minor surgery to repair a fracture in his left hand on Aug. 11 but returned to practice the next day. Was the leader of Alabama's No. 1 defense in '11 after registering career highs with 85-11-4 and three pass breakups, one interception, one forced fumble and one blocked kick in 13 games at the "Mike" LB spot. Was a finalist for the Lombardi, Butkus and Chuck Bednarik awards. The two-time team captain received his bachelor's degree in December 2011.

Positives: Powerfully built with exceptional size, body thickness and take-on strength for the inside. Plays big. Can dominate fullbacks at the point of attack — explosive on contact. Extremely stout base. Plays square to the line and stones iso-lead blockers in the hole (see LSU). Can stack, shed and swallow ballcarriers. Physical tackler with knockback power in his body. Reroutes and can control tight ends at the line of scrimmage. Athletic mover for his size. Versatile — has played multiple positions and has the football smarts to line up the defense and handle any LB position. Highly instinctive. Has lined up with his hand in the dirt and can set the edge and swat blockers out of the way. Highly respected, defensive signalcaller. Solid character. Works hard, is committed to the game and is well-versed in an NFL-style defense.

Negatives: Does not always sell out around piles and appears to be protecting himself too much — leaves some production on the field. Can improve his hand use disengaging. Limited range and production in coverage — can be outflanked by speed backs. Has some heaviness in his movement — weight has pushed 270 pounds and might require monitoring. Lacks elite speed and short-area burst to bend the edge. Can expand his pass-rush arsenal. Can do a better job coming to balance and wrapping in space. Average book smarts. Durability requires evaluation.

Summary: A big-bodied, physical run stuffer with deceptive movement skill and edge-setting strength to play outside, Hightower took time to recover from the ACL injury he suffered two years ago and has shown a tendency to play too cautiously since returning to the field. Is regarded as a two-down 3-4 "Mike" linebacker by some NFL teams but might fit best outside in an odd front given his physicality to control the line of scrimmage and stack the corner. Plus, his ability to kick outside on third downs enhances his value. Is scheme-diverse and versatile and has Pro Bowl potential when healthy. Could be most attractive to a big, physical, imposing front such as that of the Jets, Packers, 49ers or Texans.

NFL projection: Late first-round pick.

http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/0 ... n-strength (http://www.profootballweekly.com/2012/02/26/hightower-defined-by-rare-take-on-strength)

I'll add my perspective. I think, like Levon Kirkland, Hightower will improve im pass coverage. Will he ever be great at it? No, but like Kirkland, he has the work ethic and drive to be an every down backer. He will also bring in addition to work ethic and run stuffing ability, a tremendous inside power rush, leadership, and intelligence.

By now I am sure we all know he exceled in Nick Saben's 3-4 zone blitz at Alabama, which is very much as complexed and difficult as LeBeau's scheme. I believe at pick 24, of those who will realistically be there to draft, he is the only player in this draft who can come in on day one and start for the Steelers.


I'm going to post an opposing point of view so please don't take it personal.

My question to you is... What do we really hope to get in return for this first round pick?

Answer... We hope to improve our run defense. That's pretty much it. Hightower is not going to get pressure on the QB very often. He's not going to shut down TE's or slanting WR's very often. He's not going to create a lot of turnovers. He's going to do a good job stuffing the run. How does that help the Steelers against the Patriots, Packers, Saints, and the other elite scoring teams?

This is now a passing league. If you're going to go defense in the first it better be in hopes of shutting down the current NFL offenses. If you were calling for an elite NT, I wouldn't like it, but at least I could almost justify it, because hopefully he's collapsing the pocket, or drawing double teams to free up your stunting DL/LB's so at least you're generating QB pressure to some degree. Or go with an elite CB so the opposing WR isn't five yards open on every route (Willie Gay). I just don't see the return on investment in stuffing the run.

Add to that the fact that the old slow washed up combo of Farrior/Foote is still holding opposing offenses under 100 yards per game (ranked #8 in the NFL) on a defense that is holding opponents to 14.2 points per game (ranked #1 in the NFL). What are hoping to improve? Lowering that number by 2 points? Holding opposing teams to 12.2 points per game? I just don't see how that puts us in crisis mode of drafting a run stuffer at 1.24.

On the other hand, when you're offense is ranked #21 in the NFL in points scored, averaging 20.3 points per game when the top team is averaging 35 points per game, THAT in my opinion is crisis mode. You need to spend your top resources trying to improve that 15 point gap rather than focusing on a 2 point improvement in defensive points allowed.

I think the Rooneys see it the same way. Which is why they grabbed the steering wheel away from Mike Tomlin (for a moment), fired Arians, and hired an O.C. who actually understands X's and O's, in an effort to hopefully put the Steeler bus back on the pavement. I think spending early picks on the OL gives us far more return on our investment. It not only protects our franchise QB, it gives our highly talented WR's more time to get open. It also opens holes in the running game so our 1st round draft pick / star RB doesn't get hit in the back field every other play (and maybe doesn't blow an ACL quite as fast). And as far as goal line goes it would be nice to be able to get a 1 yard push when your first and goal from the 1 against the Ravens, instead of getting stoned 3 straight times.

My point is, drafting OL will contribute directly to scoring more points. And I think the greatest priority right now is scoring points. And protecting our $100 million franchise QB.

thats been my arguement as well and think OT, OG, TE and even WR if floyd falls all will have a bigger impact on the team then NT or ILB.
floyd would also give us leverage with contacts talks with wallace if he onloy signs his tender

Dee Dub
02-27-2012, 07:00 PM
...I would be utterly shocked if Hightower is the pick. Hightower can not stay up with Grownkowski...or a slot. His ability to cover is inadequate......

Negative.

The domination was surely a team effort, powered by several stars, but it was the versatile Hightower who made the D excel in every situation. In Alabama's base 3--4 defense he lined up at inside linebacker and called the defensive signals. In the nickel package he moved to the outside and rushed the passer from the Jack linebacker-end hybrid position; at other times in the nickel he dropped into coverage and played like an extra safety. Heading into the title game, he led the Tide with 81 tackles, 15 more than any other player.


"Dont'a is the kind of special talent that you never want to take off the field," coach Nick Saban says. "He's our leader out there. Everyone respects him for all that he's overcome."


NICK SABAN FIRST LAID EYES ON DONT'A HIGHTOWER at Marshall County High in Lewisburg, Tenn. Hours after watching the junior linebacker go through various drills on the first day of 2007 spring practice, he called Hightower—who had spotted a man on the sideline following his every move but didn't recognize the Alabama coach—and offered him a scholarship. "What I saw that day in the indoor practice facility at his school was probably the most athletic linebacker in the country," Saban says. "I was blown away. I knew right away he could be a perfect fit for what we wanted to do."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/ ... /index.htm (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1193997/2/index.htm)

Again, Hightower is not "great" in coverage but he is adequate. And saying he is inadequate is not correct.

isonator07
02-27-2012, 07:03 PM
I haven't seen Tomlin draft a thumper type of linebacker since he has been here. All have been leaner and more athletic. Don't get me wrong, I think Hightower is a beast, but his limited range will guys like Bellichick drooling. I don't believe this pick will happen. If it's ILB, I think the clear choice is Zach Brown.

Shawn, are you serious? That's what you are going on? Why would he look at ILB when he already had two proven starters there? Now that Farrior has declined to a point where he is nearly a non-factor it is a necessity.

Tomlin hasnt drafted a thumper at SS safety either but we should know why, right?

It would take Zack Brown 2 plus years to get on the field in this 3-4 zone blitz. Hightower has already excelled in it. He plays day one.

I have no idea what half of that meant...but not sure why you get worked up when people disagree with you. I would be utterly shocked if Hightower is the pick. Hightower can not stay up with Grownkowski...or a slot. His ability to cover is inadequate. Sure he is sharp, can call plays and stop the run. Great. But, Tomlin will ask his ILB to have range, and ability to cover. Farrior will play one more season, Brown steps in 2013.


Dub likes that Hightower can get burnt in coverage from day 1 though. :D

isonator07
02-27-2012, 07:08 PM
I was only half serious Dub. I actually like Hightower at 24, if Poe and Glenn are gone and we don't look to trade out.

Dee Dub
02-27-2012, 07:13 PM
I haven't seen Tomlin draft a thumper type of linebacker since he has been here. All have been leaner and more athletic. Don't get me wrong, I think Hightower is a beast, but his limited range will guys like Bellichick drooling. I don't believe this pick will happen. If it's ILB, I think the clear choice is Zach Brown.

Shawn, are you serious? That's what you are going on? Why would he look at ILB when he already had two proven starters there? Now that Farrior has declined to a point where he is nearly a non-factor it is a necessity.

Tomlin hasnt drafted a thumper at SS safety either but we should know why, right?

It would take Zack Brown 2 plus years to get on the field in this 3-4 zone blitz. Hightower has already excelled in it. He plays day one.

I have no idea what half of that meant...but not sure why you get worked up when people disagree with you. I would be utterly shocked if Hightower is the pick. Hightower can not stay up with Grownkowski...or a slot. His ability to cover is inadequate. Sure he is sharp, can call plays and stop the run. Great. But, Tomlin will ask his ILB to have range, and ability to cover. Farrior will play one more season, Brown steps in 2013.


Dub likes that Hightower can get burnt in coverage from day 1 though. :D


If ya pay attention you will see that LeBeau has swapped out Timmons and Farrior the past couple years on 3rd down pass plays to match up Timmons with the LB. And you can bet LeBeau will use Hightower a lot to bring heat up the middle.

isonator07
02-27-2012, 07:23 PM
Yeah, I was just joking man. I like hightower, I wouldn't take him over Poe or Glenn though.

Dee Dub
02-27-2012, 07:54 PM
I'm not a huge Jim Wexell fan but he seems to think the Steelers will draft Hightower.

@jimwexell didn't mean to be an ass. lot of people been asking me about Dont'a and I keep saying he's looking like their man. sorry.

@jimwexell Say both Poe and Hightower are there at 24... who's your pick?" -- if Poe's there, tape says he sucks. Hightower
@jimwexell y'all think Hightower is the first-round radar?" -- for the 412nd time, yes.

and he had this to say about Zach Brown...

@jimwexell needs to find the right system" -- what system has someone who tackles like a cornerback playing linebacker?

isonator07
02-27-2012, 08:28 PM
Burfict turned in a horrible 40 time and he has character issues, but watch his 9 minute highlight video on youtube. He absolutely blows people up. To bad he is such a head case.

hawaiiansteel
02-27-2012, 08:37 PM
Burfict turned in a horrible 40 time and he has character issues, but watch his 9 minute highlight video on youtube. He absolutely blows people up. To bad he is such a head case.


I don't think the Steelers would ever consider Vontaze Burfict no matter how good his highlight reel looked.

isonator07
02-27-2012, 08:39 PM
:Agree But its fun to watch him blow people up.

Shawn
02-27-2012, 09:15 PM
I suppose drafting a two down LBr, in the first is about as wise as drafting a two down NT. I'm not crazy about doing either.

Dee Dub
02-27-2012, 09:23 PM
I suppose drafting a two down LBr, in the first is about as wise as drafting a two down NT. I'm not crazy about doing either.

Shawn, Hightower inst a two down LB. He played 3 downs for Alabama. I would stop reading whatever it is you are reading about him because it is misleading you.

steelz09
02-27-2012, 09:30 PM
Come on Shawn :), your really going to knock Hightower because he can't cover Gronkowski?

If that's the case, why don't you knock on Timmons... he is supposed to be the best coverage LB in history according to us Steeler fans :stirpot Except for the fact that....

Cortez Allen was lined up to cover Gronkowski in many situations.

Vernon Davis schooled Timmons.

I would have thought our all-pro coverage LB would be able to handle these tasks.. :roll:

Seriously though.... covering Gronkowski and things like that is supposed to be Timmons' job. Hightower is a different animal all together.

Personally, I think we'd be in trouble w/ two Timmons at ILB. Farrior + Timmons is a good combo ... Hightower + Timmons is a good combo. They complement each others skill sets.

Dee Dub
02-27-2012, 09:37 PM
Come on Dub :), your really going to knock Hightower because he can't cover Gronkowski?

If that's the case, why don't you knock on Timmons... he is supposed to be the best coverage LB in history according to us Steeler fans :stirpot Except for the fact that....

Cortez Allen was lined up to cover Gronkowski in many situations.

Vernon Davis schooled Timmons.

I would have thought our all-pro coverage LB would be able to handle these tasks.. :roll:

Seriously though.... covering Gronkowski and things like that is supposed to be Timmons' job. Hightower is a different animal all together.

Personally, I think we'd be in trouble w/ two Timmons at ILB. Farrior + Timmons is a good combo ... Hightower + Timmons is a good combo. They complement each others skill sets.

You have me confused with Shawn. If you havent figured it out yet, I am pro Hightower. :D

steelz09
02-27-2012, 09:40 PM
Come on Dub :), your really going to knock Hightower because he can't cover Gronkowski?

If that's the case, why don't you knock on Timmons... he is supposed to be the best coverage LB in history according to us Steeler fans :stirpot Except for the fact that....

Cortez Allen was lined up to cover Gronkowski in many situations.

Vernon Davis schooled Timmons.

I would have thought our all-pro coverage LB would be able to handle these tasks.. :roll:

Seriously though.... covering Gronkowski and things like that is supposed to be Timmons' job. Hightower is a different animal all together.

Personally, I think we'd be in trouble w/ two Timmons at ILB. Farrior + Timmons is a good combo ... Hightower + Timmons is a good combo. They complement each others skill sets.

You have me confused with Shawn. If you havent figured it out yet, I am pro Hightower. :D

Oooppps.... typo. I would have never guessed by your signature :)

Shawn
02-28-2012, 09:38 AM
Let me say this for the record, once again I like Hightower. I think he is a superb talent. That isn't up for debate. In my mind, what IS up for debate is draft strategy, and where Tomlin is leading this team from a draft perspective. My question is-is the traditional thumper needed in the current NFL? Thumpers absorb blockers to allow guys like Timmons to make plays. But, they tend to be a liability in coverage. As long as they are on the field, a team like the Pats with their two very talented TEs can exploit them. Teams who mostly pass can keep Hightower off the field.

In the new NFL, you need LBrs who can cover. It keeps teams like the Pats honest. A LBr like Zack Brown is not as well groomed as Hightower. I grant you that. But, he has the tools needed to be an elite LBr who can cover like a DB. I predict these new hybrid types of linebackers will become more prevelant...and I believe Tomlin to be ahead of the game with his thinking. Come April...we will know for sure where he stands on this issue. I truly believe we will draft an ILB in the first. I believe it will either be Hightower or Brown. Guess we will have to wait to see if he is more of a traditional thinker...or a guy who can look ahead.

focosteeler
02-28-2012, 09:42 AM
Burfict turned in a horrible 40 time and he has character issues, but watch his 9 minute highlight video on youtube. He absolutely blows people up. To bad he is such a head case.


I don't think the Steelers would ever consider Vontaze Burfict no matter how good his highlight reel looked.

it is disappointing the kid did so poorly and has such bad issues. Because I wish we could have a Joey Porter type guy on the D again. I miss it for some reason

Slapstick
02-28-2012, 09:45 AM
Ummm...

If, for some reason, you think he can't cover (and don't bring up Gronkowski...the number of LBs who could hang with him in coverage can be counted on one hand...or perhaps a fist), sending him after the QB on passing downs is an option...

Besides, how often are LBs used in man coverage in the Steelers' scheme anyway?

Shawn
02-28-2012, 09:51 AM
Ummm...

If, for some reason, you think he can't cover (and don't bring up Gronkowski...the number of LBs who could hang with him in coverage can be counted on one hand...or perhaps a fist), sending him after the QB on passing downs is an option...

Besides, how often are LBs used in man coverage in the Steelers' scheme anyway?

Slap...linebackers must be able to keep up with a TE...zone or not. Did you watch Farrior try to keep up with TEs this season? Draft Hightower and expect 10 years of that, if his knee holds up.

Slapstick
02-28-2012, 09:54 AM
Slap...linebackers must be able to keep up with a TE...zone or not. Did you watch Farrior try to keep up with TEs this season? Draft Hightower and expect 10 years of that, if his knee holds up.

...you think.

Shawn
02-28-2012, 10:06 AM
Slap...linebackers must be able to keep up with a TE...zone or not. Did you watch Farrior try to keep up with TEs this season? Draft Hightower and expect 10 years of that, if his knee holds up.

...you think.

Exactly, so what was your point? Send a mud footed LBr after the qb, or that it's acceptable that he can't cover because "no one else can either"? Help me understand your original point.

Oviedo
02-28-2012, 10:13 AM
[quote=Shawn]I haven't seen Tomlin draft a thumper type of linebacker since he has been here. All have been leaner and more athletic. Don't get me wrong, I think Hightower is a beast, but his limited range will guys like Bellichick drooling. I don't believe this pick will happen. If it's ILB, I think the clear choice is Zach Brown.

Shawn, are you serious? That's what you are going on? Why would he look at ILB when he already had two proven starters there? Now that Farrior has declined to a point where he is nearly a non-factor it is a necessity.

Tomlin hasnt drafted a thumper at SS safety either but we should know why, right?

It would take Zack Brown 2 plus years to get on the field in this 3-4 zone blitz. Hightower has already excelled in it. He plays day one.


I have no idea what half of that meant...but not sure why you get worked up when people disagree with you. I would be utterly shocked if Hightower is the pick. Hightower can not stay up with Grownkowski...or a slot. His ability to cover is inadequate. Sure he is sharp, can call plays and stop the run. Great. But, Tomlin will ask his ILB to have range, and ability to cover. Farrior will play one more season, Brown steps in 2013.


Dub likes that Hightower can get burnt in coverage from day 1 though. :D


If ya pay attention you will see that LeBeau has swapped out Timmons and Farrior the past couple years on 3rd down pass plays to match up Timmons with the LB. And you can bet LeBeau will use Hightower a lot to bring heat up the middle.[/quote:3u4k65w9]

LeBeau has almost all but forgotten what an inside blitz is from our ILBs.

Oviedo
02-28-2012, 10:15 AM
Come on Shawn :), your really going to knock Hightower because he can't cover Gronkowski?

If that's the case, why don't you knock on Timmons... he is supposed to be the best coverage LB in history according to us Steeler fans :stirpot Except for the fact that....

Cortez Allen was lined up to cover Gronkowski in many situations.

Vernon Davis schooled Timmons.

I would have thought our all-pro coverage LB would be able to handle these tasks.. :roll:

Seriously though.... covering Gronkowski and things like that is supposed to be Timmons' job. Hightower is a different animal all together.

Personally, I think we'd be in trouble w/ two Timmons at ILB. Farrior + Timmons is a good combo ... Hightower + Timmons is a good combo. They complement each others skill sets.


There are LBs, Nickle backs, and Safeties who couldn't cover Gronkowski. It isn't a problem with Timmons, its just that Gronk is that good.

Slapstick
02-28-2012, 10:16 AM
My points are these:

1) You don't know that he can't cover.

2) Saying that he shouldn't be drafted because he can't cover Gronkowski is silly. Should every team cut all of their LBs?

3) He can rush the passer. There are several ways to play defense on passing downs. Don't limit your thinking.

Shawn
02-28-2012, 10:20 AM
My points are these:

1) You don't know that he can't cover.

2) Saying that he shouldn't be drafted because he can't cover Gronkowski is silly. Should every team cut all of their LBs?

3) He can rush the passer. There are several ways to play defense on passing downs. Don't limit your thinking.

And my points are these:

1) I know he is slow, that usually equates to not being able to run with guys who are faster.

2) I used Gronkowski only as an example of where the NFL is headed, and why we need more athletic LBrs to play the position.

3) Hightower may very well run in the mid 4.7's how effective do you believe that pass rush would be?

Slapstick
02-28-2012, 10:27 AM
And my points are these:

1) I know he is slow, that usually equates to not being able to run with guys who are faster.

2) I used Gronkowski only as an example of where the NFL is headed, and why we need more athletic LBrs to play the position.

3) Hightower may very well run in the mid 4.7's how effective do you believe that pass rush would be?

1) Do you? Have you raced him? What clued you in to his lack of speed? The fact that he was a top player on college football's best defense?

2) Hyperbole. I get it. Sorry.

3) Or, he could very well run in the mid-to-low 4.6's. We don't know yet. If he does run in the 4.7s, he may not be the right pick. There are too many variables for me to make an informed decision.

Shawn
02-28-2012, 10:36 AM
And my points are these:

1) I know he is slow, that usually equates to not being able to run with guys who are faster.

2) I used Gronkowski only as an example of where the NFL is headed, and why we need more athletic LBrs to play the position.

3) Hightower may very well run in the mid 4.7's how effective do you believe that pass rush would be?

1) Do you? Have you raced him? What clued you in to his lack of speed? The fact that he was a top player on college football's best defense?

2) Hyperbole. I get it. Sorry.

3) Or, he could very well run in the mid-to-low 4.6's. We don't know yet. If he does run in the 4.7s, he may not be the right pick. There are too many variables for me to make an informed decision.

1) If he is dropping 10 pounds...just hoping he can run in the 4.6's...that might be your first clue. :idea:

2) Cool

3) If he has to drop weight in order to run a 40...in order to quiet the critics about his lack of speed, these are all very good indicators that speed may be a problem. It's obviously an issue. A 265 pound man, running on a surgically repaired knee probably isn't going to win an Olympic track event.

grotonsteel
02-28-2012, 11:32 AM
If Steelers draft Donta Hightower in Rd 1 it will be a mind-boggling desicion to me.

So Steelers will be investing 2 1st Rd picks (Timmons+Hightower) + 2 2nd Rd picks(Woodley+Jason W) + Harrison. Why would Steelers invest so much on LB corp? It simply does not make sense.

On top of that they have 2 1st Rd picks on D-line. If Steelers FO go for defense in Rd 1 i would not be happy.


Steelers FO need to stop treating Offense like a step-child. This draft should be offense heavy.

Ok...who's offensive pick at 24 that will make an immediate impact next or even an just impact?


OG/OT would be an instant upgrade. LG and LT position are up for grabs on Steelers O-line. Marcus Gilbert might be moved to LT but he is an unknown at that position. Even WR like Floyd would help this team.

Hightower is a good player but he is not a game changer. I would draft a player like him at 32 not at 24.He does nothing to the defense. Also i am against spending so much on one position. This is very un-Steelers like.

Alabama players get all the hype during the draft but i am yet to see a great Alabama player in NFL coached by Nick saban in school. Alabama players have reached their ceiling by the time they hit NFL.

Draft a guy like Demario Davis or Nigel Bradham and let them develop into starters in 2-3 years.

Shawn
02-28-2012, 12:30 PM
Groton I will agree with all of that except the spending of too much on one position. While I agree with the sentiment, the Steelers have drafted themselves into a corner concerning ILB. They have to get a guy who can start soon...maybe not this season but certainly next. So, they will have to go ILB in the first or second. I don't see a way around it, unless they move one of the youngsters there.

steelz09
02-28-2012, 12:40 PM
I understand the argument but I still don't think you got my point.

Timmons is our guy in that "coverage" LB role. We don't need another coverage LB. We need a guy that will complement Timmons. Timmons was drafted to be that LB that can cover and play well in space. His weakest area is when he's not in space. That is where a more instinctive ILB that can diagnose a play quickly, shed & tackel is going to thrive. That is (or was) Farrior. That is Hightower. Heck, I think Farrior and Hightower are better blitzers than Timmons too.

Timmons would get toasted down the field (notice I said down the field) by Gronkoski, Jimmy Graham, etc the same way he did against Vernon Davis. Hell, Patrick Willis probably would too. That is where you need to be deep in the secondary and have size. That is why Cortez Allen was a good fit to match up against a Gronkowski. He's athletic, has good speed and size at the CB position.

As far as the pats go....We played the Pats this year EXACTLY how we should have been playing them for many years. I think adding Hightower to the mix would just increase our chances.

Let Timmons jam Hernandez, Cortez Allen jam Gronkowski, Ike on Welker and then send Hightower up the middle to get in Brady's face. Then send either Harrison or Woodley on the opposite side. You beat Brady, Brees and Rodgers by getting pressure in their face and making them throw earlier then they desire. If you drop your LB's back in coverage , the great QBs will make you pay.

Slapstick
02-28-2012, 12:42 PM
The thing is, Sylvester might be able to play...

He came in last year as a 2nd year player with no OTAs...similar to Jason Woirlds...

When Worilds was forced into the startng lineup, it took him some time to get acclimated and by the time he was starting his 5th, 6th and 7th games, he looked pretty good...

The ILBs were relatively healthy...Sylvester started only one game (vs. New England) and didn't light the world on fire...but, he wasn't terrible...

I'm hoping he takes a Keenan Lewis-type leap forward this year...

grotonsteel
02-28-2012, 01:16 PM
I understand the argument but I still don't think you got my point.

Timmons is our guy in that "coverage" LB role. We don't need another coverage LB. We need a guy that will complement Timmons. Timmons was drafted to be that LB that can cover and play well in space. His weakest area is when he's not in space. That is where a more instinctive ILB that can diagnose a play quickly, shed & tackel is going to thrive. That is (or was) Farrior. That is Hightower. Heck, I think Farrior and Hightower are better blitzers than Timmons too.




Do Steelers really need to draft a thumper in Rd 1? You can get a good ILB in Rd 2 or Rd 3. I think Davis or Nigel Bradham or Cole would be as good as Hightower.

Now if Hightower is as explosive as Patrick Willis then yes i am all for drafting him in Rd 1 but i don't see Hightower anything but a run stopper. And you can get those type of LB in mid-round.

This draft is loaded with LBers and a guy D Davis of Arkansas State would be a steal. I think he is as good as Hightower.

Shawn
02-28-2012, 01:16 PM
The thing is, Sylvester might be able to play...

He came in last year as a 2nd year player with no OTAs...similar to Jason Woirlds...

When Worilds was forced into the startng lineup, it took him some time to get acclimated and by the time he was starting his 5th, 6th and 7th games, he looked pretty good...

The ILBs were relatively healthy...Sylvester started only one game (vs. New England) and didn't light the world on fire...but, he wasn't terrible...

I'm hoping he takes a Keenan Lewis-type leap forward this year...

I had high hopes for Sylvester. And certainly that train has not passed. With that said, I was discouraged when watching him play. From memory I don't think Sylvester had a single tackle in that game...I could be mistaken. I also hope Sylvester lights up this year.

grotonsteel
02-28-2012, 01:20 PM
Groton I will agree with all of that except the spending of too much on one position. While I agree with the sentiment, the Steelers have drafted themselves into a corner concerning ILB. They have to get a guy who can start soon...maybe not this season but certainly next. So, they will have to go ILB in the first or second. I don't see a way around it, unless they move one of the youngsters there.


Shwan i agree ILB is a need and Steelers need to find heir apparent to Farrior/Foote but i don't think spending two 1st Rd picks on ILB make sense. Also Steelers hardly blitz their ILBers.

Steelers can get guy like DeMario Davis in Rd 3- Rd 4 or Lavonte Davis in Rd 2 . I believe these players have more potential than Hightower.

Dee Dub
02-28-2012, 01:22 PM
Slap...linebackers must be able to keep up with a TE...zone or not. Did you watch Farrior try to keep up with TEs this season? Draft Hightower and expect 10 years of that, if his knee holds up.

...you think.

Exactly, so what was your point? Send a mud footed LBr after the qb, or that it's acceptable that he can't cover because "no one else can either"? Help me understand your original point.

Shawn I dont think you've seen much of Hightower. He isnt a mud footed LBer. In fact he actually plays fast on the field. Great read and reaction. Smart and instinctive. And I believe he ran a 4.62 yesterday so at 265 that is very impressive. He actually ran faster than some DB's have today.

Go Google some youtube of him and you will see an ILB who is quick enough to get to the QB from 7 yards off the LOS. And he does a lot more than just run stuff. But had you done your homework, you would know this. :wink:

Dee Dub
02-28-2012, 01:26 PM
Groton I will agree with all of that except the spending of too much on one position. While I agree with the sentiment, the Steelers have drafted themselves into a corner concerning ILB. They have to get a guy who can start soon...maybe not this season but certainly next. So, they will have to go ILB in the first or second. I don't see a way around it, unless they move one of the youngsters there.


Shwan i agree ILB is a need and Steelers need to find heir apparent to Farrior/Foote but i don't think spending two 1st Rd picks on ILB make sense. Also Steelers hardly blitz their ILBers.

Steelers can get guy like DeMario Davis in Rd 3- Rd 4 or Lavonte Davis in Rd 2 . I believe these players have more potential than Hightower.

How can you say that? If Hightower can come in on day one and start and fill a position of need, why wouldn't it make sense?

At 24 who do you think in this draft who will actually be there at 24 can come in and start from day one?

RuthlessBurgher
02-28-2012, 01:28 PM
Groton I will agree with all of that except the spending of too much on one position. While I agree with the sentiment, the Steelers have drafted themselves into a corner concerning ILB. They have to get a guy who can start soon...maybe not this season but certainly next. So, they will have to go ILB in the first or second. I don't see a way around it, unless they move one of the youngsters there.


Shwan i agree ILB is a need and Steelers need to find heir apparent to Farrior/Foote but i don't think spending two 1st Rd picks on ILB make sense. Also Steelers hardly blitz their ILBers.

Steelers can get guy like DeMario Davis in Rd 3- Rd 4 or Lavonte Davis in Rd 2 . I believe these players have more potential than Hightower.

How can you say that? If Hightower can come in on day one and start and fill a position of need, why wouldn't it make sense?

At 24 who do you think in this draft who will actually be there at 24 can come in and start from day one?

Colbert isn't concerned about who can start day one when he makes his picks. He keeps a long term macro view of things.

Dee Dub
02-28-2012, 01:28 PM
My points are these:

1) You don't know that he can't cover.

2) Saying that he shouldn't be drafted because he can't cover Gronkowski is silly. Should every team cut all of their LBs?

3) He can rush the passer. There are several ways to play defense on passing downs. Don't limit your thinking.

:Clap

And the fact that he could call the defensive signals as (as a rookie), as he did in Saban's zone blitz is huge!

Dee Dub
02-28-2012, 01:38 PM
I understand the argument but I still don't think you got my point.

Timmons is our guy in that "coverage" LB role. We don't need another coverage LB. We need a guy that will complement Timmons. Timmons was drafted to be that LB that can cover and play well in space. His weakest area is when he's not in space. That is where a more instinctive ILB that can diagnose a play quickly, shed & tackel is going to thrive. That is (or was) Farrior. That is Hightower. Heck, I think Farrior and Hightower are better blitzers than Timmons too.

Timmons would get toasted down the field (notice I said down the field) by Gronkoski, Jimmy Graham, etc the same way he did against Vernon Davis. Hell, Patrick Willis probably would too. That is where you need to be deep in the secondary and have size. That is why Cortez Allen was a good fit to match up against a Gronkowski. He's athletic, has good speed and size at the CB position.

As far as the pats go....We played the Pats this year EXACTLY how we should have been playing them for many years. I think adding Hightower to the mix would just increase our chances.

Let Timmons jam Hernandez, Cortez Allen jam Gronkowski, Ike on Welker and then send Hightower up the middle to get in Brady's face. Then send either Harrison or Woodley on the opposite side. You beat Brady, Brees and Rodgers by getting pressure in their face and making them throw earlier then they desire. If you drop your LB's back in coverage , the great QBs will make you pay.

Excellent points!! And to be honest, forget what some of these posters think, the Steelers are very impressed with Hightower and are interested in him. They met with him Saturday and Wexell, Ken Laird, and Scott Brown have all said the Steelers like what they see in Hightower.

Wexell believes he is their guy.That doesnt come from his opinion. That is what he is hearing from them.

Dee Dub
02-28-2012, 01:41 PM
Groton I will agree with all of that except the spending of too much on one position. While I agree with the sentiment, the Steelers have drafted themselves into a corner concerning ILB. They have to get a guy who can start soon...maybe not this season but certainly next. So, they will have to go ILB in the first or second. I don't see a way around it, unless they move one of the youngsters there.


Shwan i agree ILB is a need and Steelers need to find heir apparent to Farrior/Foote but i don't think spending two 1st Rd picks on ILB make sense. Also Steelers hardly blitz their ILBers.

Steelers can get guy like DeMario Davis in Rd 3- Rd 4 or Lavonte Davis in Rd 2 . I believe these players have more potential than Hightower.

How can you say that? If Hightower can come in on day one and start and fill a position of need, why wouldn't it make sense?

At 24 who do you think in this draft who will actually be there at 24 can come in and start from day one?

Colbert isn't concerned about who can start day one when he makes his picks. He keeps a long term macro view of things.

Every GM wants a first round draft pick who can start from day one. Concerned might not be the right word but you can bet that is something they covet.

phillyesq
02-28-2012, 01:50 PM
Every GM wants a first round draft pick who can start from day one. Concerned might not be the right word but you can bet that is something they covet.

That isn't how the Steelers do business. Hood and Heyward were both picked with an eye toward the future. With Hood in particular, the Steelers also really liked Max Unger, who would have had a much better chance at starting immediately, but they stayed true to their board and selected Hood.

I'm not saying that Hightower won't be the pick, or even that he shouldn't be the pick. But I am saying that the Steelers will take the long term view, as they always do.

steelz09
02-28-2012, 01:55 PM
I understand the argument but I still don't think you got my point.

Timmons is our guy in that "coverage" LB role. We don't need another coverage LB. We need a guy that will complement Timmons. Timmons was drafted to be that LB that can cover and play well in space. His weakest area is when he's not in space. That is where a more instinctive ILB that can diagnose a play quickly, shed & tackel is going to thrive. That is (or was) Farrior. That is Hightower. Heck, I think Farrior and Hightower are better blitzers than Timmons too.



It would seem that way but Colbert disagreed. Colbert stated that ILB is thin in this years draft.


Do Steelers really need to draft a thumper in Rd 1? You can get a good ILB in Rd 2 or Rd 3. I think Davis or Nigel Bradham or Cole would be as good as Hightower.

Now if Hightower is as explosive as Patrick Willis then yes i am all for drafting him in Rd 1 but i don't see Hightower anything but a run stopper. And you can get those type of LB in mid-round.

This draft is loaded with LBers and a guy D Davis of Arkansas State would be a steal. I think he is as good as Hightower.

Shawn
02-28-2012, 01:56 PM
I will agree with one thing Dubs. I don't think there is an ILB that is better suited to start day 1 than Hightower. With that said, I believe his ceiling is quite limited, and a guy like Brown while a bit more raw has more physical tools.

Dee Dub
02-28-2012, 01:59 PM
Every GM wants a first round draft pick who can start from day one. Concerned might not be the right word but you can bet that is something they covet.

That isn't how the Steelers do business. Hood and Heyward were both picked with an eye toward the future. With Hood in particular, the Steelers also really liked Max Unger, who would have had a much better chance at starting immediately, but they stayed true to their board and selected Hood.

I'm not saying that Hightower won't be the pick, or even that he shouldn't be the pick. But I am saying that the Steelers will take the long term view, as they always do.

That's not a fair comparison. The Steelers had the luxury of doing that (with Hood and Heyward), because they had viable starters entrenched at those positions. Right now at ILB the future is now. Farrior is done. And it also saves the team money. That wasnt the issue when they drafted Hood and Heyward as it is today. And with Hightower he also will fill the need for years to come. The pick of him makes all the sense in the world. He played in a 3-4 zone blitz, was a stand out ILB, they need an ILB, and he compliments what they have in Timmons.

Dee Dub
02-28-2012, 02:04 PM
I will agree with one thing Dubs. I don't think there is an ILB that is better suited to start day 1 than Hightower. With that said, I believe his ceiling is quite limited, and a guy like Brown while a bit more raw has more physical tools.

Ok would you have said the same thing about Levon Kirkland when he came into the NFL? I am sure we all did. But his freakish athleticism (like Hightower), and is drive made him better with each year. Kirkland blew the roof off of what many thought was his ceiling.

phillyesq
02-28-2012, 02:19 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":wv14reax]Every GM wants a first round draft pick who can start from day one. Concerned might not be the right word but you can bet that is something they covet.

That isn't how the Steelers do business. Hood and Heyward were both picked with an eye toward the future. With Hood in particular, the Steelers also really liked Max Unger, who would have had a much better chance at starting immediately, but they stayed true to their board and selected Hood.

I'm not saying that Hightower won't be the pick, or even that he shouldn't be the pick. But I am saying that the Steelers will take the long term view, as they always do.

That's not a fair comparison. The Steelers had the luxury of doing that (with Hood and Heyward), because they had viable starters entrenched at those positions. Right now at ILB the future is now. Farrior is done. And it also saves the team money. That wasnt the issue when they drafted Hood and Heyward as it is today. And with Hightower he also will fill the need for years to come. The pick of him makes all the sense in the world. He played in a 3-4 zone blitz, was a stand out ILB, they need an ILB, and he compliments what they have in Timmons.[/quote:wv14reax]

Again, I'm not saying that Hightower should not be or will not be the pick. However, if the Steelers find a player they think will be the better player down the road, they can, should and will take that player over Hightower.

When the Steelers took Hood and Heyward, there were entrenched starters in front of them. But, in the case at Hood, there was not an entrenched starter at C. It was Hartwig. I forget who was at guard at that point in time, but the Steelers didn't exactly have an All Pro line that year. In fact, that might have been following the year that Stapelton started at RG. In any event, the Steelers filled long term needs.

Lets say the Steelers see a safety or a corner they like at 24. Or a NT. Or even a DE. They will take that player if the player is rated above Hightower, and fill the ILB spot with a combo of Farrior, Foote and a later round pick.

RuthlessBurgher
02-28-2012, 02:23 PM
[quote=Shawn]Groton I will agree with all of that except the spending of too much on one position. While I agree with the sentiment, the Steelers have drafted themselves into a corner concerning ILB. They have to get a guy who can start soon...maybe not this season but certainly next. So, they will have to go ILB in the first or second. I don't see a way around it, unless they move one of the youngsters there.


Shwan i agree ILB is a need and Steelers need to find heir apparent to Farrior/Foote but i don't think spending two 1st Rd picks on ILB make sense. Also Steelers hardly blitz their ILBers.

Steelers can get guy like DeMario Davis in Rd 3- Rd 4 or Lavonte Davis in Rd 2 . I believe these players have more potential than Hightower.

How can you say that? If Hightower can come in on day one and start and fill a position of need, why wouldn't it make sense?

At 24 who do you think in this draft who will actually be there at 24 can come in and start from day one?

Colbert isn't concerned about who can start day one when he makes his picks. He keeps a long term macro view of things.

Every GM wants a first round draft pick who can start from day one. Concerned might not be the right word but you can bet that is something they covet.[/quote:2nncczt2]

Okay...let's say Hightower is drafted and he starts from Day One. As a rookie, he's a solid contributor (say, an Earl Holmes type). Then he progresses a bit, and becomes a David Little by year two. Finally, by year three, he's reached his ceiling as a full fledged Levon Kirkland. Awesome.

Is that worth passing on Poe (who doesn't start at all as a rookie, and may only start contributing in the DL rotation until the second half of year one), but may be Ngata-type beast by year three?

Insecure GM's and head coaches are more likely to take the first guy, because they are scared that if a guy takes 2 or 3 years to develop, I may not have a job by then...I need to cover my butt with guys who can contribute right away if I want to remain employed. GM's and head coaches with job security (like ours...Colbert and Tomlin aren't going anywhere any time soon) are more interested in the guys who will (potentially) have the best careers, not necessarily the biggest splash as a rookie. Colbert has an unparalleled record with his top picks, but other than 13-0 Roethlisberger, we haven't had any RoY candidates in his time.

Dee Dub
02-28-2012, 02:42 PM
Okay...let's say Hightower is drafted and he starts from Day One. As a rookie, he's a solid contributor (say, an Earl Holmes type). Then he progresses a bit, and becomes a David Little by year two. Finally, by year three, he's reached his ceiling as a full fledged Levon Kirkland. Awesome.

Is that worth passing on Poe (who doesn't start at all as a rookie, and may only start contributing in the DL rotation until the second half of year one), but may be Ngata-type beast by year three?



Yes it is to me. You get a perennial pro bowler (in my opinion), and a leader of the defense in Hightower. And the Steelers have made it known lately that they want to win now (contract restructures). Tomorrow is not guaranteed for anybody.

And I feel the same way about DeCastro and Glenn. They come in and start from day one.

Potential will get a GM fired.

RuthlessBurgher
02-28-2012, 02:55 PM
Okay...let's say Hightower is drafted and he starts from Day One. As a rookie, he's a solid contributor (say, an Earl Holmes type). Then he progresses a bit, and becomes a David Little by year two. Finally, by year three, he's reached his ceiling as a full fledged Levon Kirkland. Awesome.

Is that worth passing on Poe (who doesn't start at all as a rookie, and may only start contributing in the DL rotation until the second half of year one), but may be Ngata-type beast by year three?



Yes it is to me. You get a perennial pro bowler (in my opinion), and a leader of the defense in Hightower. And the Steelers have made it known lately that they want to win now (contract restructures). Tomorrow is not guaranteed for anybody.

And I feel the same way about DeCastro and Glenn. They come in and start from day one.

Potential will get a GM fired.

The point is that David Little made the Pro Bowl once in his career, and Levon Kirkland made it twice. We all love James Farrior, but he's only a two-time Pro Bowler as well. Those guys were great leaders, but even they weren't perennial Pro Bowlers. Perennial Pro Bowlers are guys who are truly dominant (in their time) like Patrick Willis and Ray Lewis. I haven't heard anyone comparing Hightower to someone like Willis or Lewis.

Meanwhile, Haloti Ngata has been All-Pro for the last 4 years and counting (and he's still only 28). Poe has been drawing Ngata comparisons left and right. If our front office truly believes that Poe could have a Ngata-like ceiling, then that trumps the ability to start from day one every day of the week.

Oviedo
02-28-2012, 02:56 PM
Groton I will agree with all of that except the spending of too much on one position. While I agree with the sentiment, the Steelers have drafted themselves into a corner concerning ILB. They have to get a guy who can start soon...maybe not this season but certainly next. So, they will have to go ILB in the first or second. I don't see a way around it, unless they move one of the youngsters there.


Shwan i agree ILB is a need and Steelers need to find heir apparent to Farrior/Foote but i don't think spending two 1st Rd picks on ILB make sense. Also Steelers hardly blitz their ILBers.

Steelers can get guy like DeMario Davis in Rd 3- Rd 4 or Lavonte Davis in Rd 2 . I believe these players have more potential than Hightower.


The fact that we are blitzing our ILB less and less is a LeBeau problem not a LB problem.

Dee Dub
02-28-2012, 03:14 PM
Okay...let's say Hightower is drafted and he starts from Day One. As a rookie, he's a solid contributor (say, an Earl Holmes type). Then he progresses a bit, and becomes a David Little by year two. Finally, by year three, he's reached his ceiling as a full fledged Levon Kirkland. Awesome.

Is that worth passing on Poe (who doesn't start at all as a rookie, and may only start contributing in the DL rotation until the second half of year one), but may be Ngata-type beast by year three?



Yes it is to me. You get a perennial pro bowler (in my opinion), and a leader of the defense in Hightower. And the Steelers have made it known lately that they want to win now (contract restructures). Tomorrow is not guaranteed for anybody.

And I feel the same way about DeCastro and Glenn. They come in and start from day one.

Potential will get a GM fired.

The point is that David Little made the Pro Bowl once in his career, and Levon Kirkland made it twice. We all love James Farrior, but he's only a two-time Pro Bowler as well. Those guys were great leaders, but even they weren't perennial Pro Bowlers. Perennial Pro Bowlers are guys who are truly dominant (in their time) like Patrick Willis and Ray Lewis. I haven't heard anyone comparing Hightower to someone like Willis or Lewis.

Meanwhile, Haloti Ngata has been All-Pro for the last 4 years and counting (and he's still only 28). Poe has been drawing Ngata comparisons left and right. If our front office truly believes that Poe could have a Ngata-like ceiling, then that trumps the ability to start from day one every day of the week.

I hear what you are saying, but two things, at this point, Hightower is way ahead of Kirkland as a player when Kirkland came into the NFL. And Hightower is way ahead in regards to knowledge of scheme. He has excelled already in the 3-4 zone blitz.

..and point number two, the comparisons of Ngata and Poe are based on size and athleticism only. Not as a where they are as players whether that be now or when Ngata first came into the NFL. Ngata was a starter day one. Poe is a long way from that. You guys are fooling yourself if you think Ngata and Poe are comparable as players. Left and right comparisons are correct..they right now, are on opposite ends of the production line.

Slapstick
02-28-2012, 03:55 PM
As previously mentioned, Hightower ran a sub 4.7 time (both official and unofficial)...

feltdizz
02-28-2012, 04:12 PM
I need a consistent player on D... Unless there are some studs at NT next year...I think LB is usually the obvious pick but with Casey's age, Hoke retiring and Keisel getting up there in age I think we will go after Poe.

phillyesq
02-28-2012, 04:28 PM
The point is that David Little made the Pro Bowl once in his career, and Levon Kirkland made it twice. We all love James Farrior, but he's only a two-time Pro Bowler as well. Those guys were great leaders, but even they weren't perennial Pro Bowlers. Perennial Pro Bowlers are guys who are truly dominant (in their time) like Patrick Willis and Ray Lewis. I haven't heard anyone comparing Hightower to someone like Willis or Lewis.

Meanwhile, Haloti Ngata has been All-Pro for the last 4 years and counting (and he's still only 28). Poe has been drawing Ngata comparisons left and right. If our front office truly believes that Poe could have a Ngata-like ceiling, then that trumps the ability to start from day one every day of the week.

Ruthless, I'm generally with you on finding the player who will be best over the course of 5-10 years as opposed to looking for an immediate starter. With Poe, I'm a bit more risk adverse than you are.

Poe could be Ngata in 5 years, or he could be Amobi Okoye. I think Wexell made a good point in saying that if Poe can play, with his measurables, he'll be gone by 24.

steelz09
02-28-2012, 04:36 PM
Even though I sound "pro" Hightower, I'm not saying he should or will be the pick.

I wouldn't be upset if he was but when you start putting DeCastro, Glenn and Poe in the mix then I'm not quite sure.

I will say that I do like a player that can produce NOW rather than a "potential" player. Timmons is a guy that still has more potential... but I haven't seen all of it yet and we might never see all of it.

Another problem I have with potential is the $ these 1st round picks make/made. If a 1st round draft pick has to learn for three years then he is making 1st round $$$$ when he's on the bench "learning" or getting spot duty. When he finally "gets it", the Steelers have to pay big money again to keep him (i.e. Timmons). That's BS.... and it happens all the time. In that case, the player should give back some of his rookie contract money (which obviously will never happen).

Oh and for the record, Timmons has gained a bit of weight because he was too small to play the inside coming out of college. With that being said, do you think Timmons is much faster now (w/ his weight gain) than what Hightower is right now? I bet Timmons wouldn't run much faster than a 4.68. Hightower wouldn't need to gain any weight so I doubt he'd get any slower...

grotonsteel
02-28-2012, 04:50 PM
Groton I will agree with all of that except the spending of too much on one position. While I agree with the sentiment, the Steelers have drafted themselves into a corner concerning ILB. They have to get a guy who can start soon...maybe not this season but certainly next. So, they will have to go ILB in the first or second. I don't see a way around it, unless they move one of the youngsters there.


Shwan i agree ILB is a need and Steelers need to find heir apparent to Farrior/Foote but i don't think spending two 1st Rd picks on ILB make sense. Also Steelers hardly blitz their ILBers.

Steelers can get guy like DeMario Davis in Rd 3- Rd 4 or Lavonte Davis in Rd 2 . I believe these players have more potential than Hightower.


The fact that we are blitzing our ILB less and less is a LeBeau problem not a LB problem.


Well it tells us that LeBeau does not like to blitz ILBs much. Why waste a Rd 1 pick on run stopper who can't cover the TEs?

RuthlessBurgher
02-28-2012, 04:52 PM
The point is that David Little made the Pro Bowl once in his career, and Levon Kirkland made it twice. We all love James Farrior, but he's only a two-time Pro Bowler as well. Those guys were great leaders, but even they weren't perennial Pro Bowlers. Perennial Pro Bowlers are guys who are truly dominant (in their time) like Patrick Willis and Ray Lewis. I haven't heard anyone comparing Hightower to someone like Willis or Lewis.

Meanwhile, Haloti Ngata has been All-Pro for the last 4 years and counting (and he's still only 28). Poe has been drawing Ngata comparisons left and right. If our front office truly believes that Poe could have a Ngata-like ceiling, then that trumps the ability to start from day one every day of the week.

Ruthless, I'm generally with you on finding the player who will be best over the course of 5-10 years as opposed to looking for an immediate starter. With Poe, I'm a bit more risk adverse than you are.

Poe could be Ngata in 5 years, or he could be Amobi Okoye. I think Wexell made a good point in saying that if Poe can play, with his measurables, he'll be gone by 24.

Well, I'm still advocating trading up for DeCastro (even though it would cost a lot), because I think he gives us both (a guy who can contribute immediately who also has been compared with perennial Pro Bowlers...the only comparisons I ever hear with DeCastro are Hutchinson or Faneca).

RuthlessBurgher
02-28-2012, 04:57 PM
Another problem I have with potential is the $ these 1st round picks make/made. If a 1st round draft pick has to learn for three years then he is making 1st round $$$$ when he's on the bench "learning" or getting spot duty. When he finally "gets it", the Steelers have to pay big money again to keep him (i.e. Timmons). That's BS.... and it happens all the time. In that case, the player should give back some of his rookie contract money (which obviously will never happen).

Late first round picks don't make huge dollars. The 24th pick last year, Saints DE Cameron Jordan, signed a four-year, $7.73 million contract (with a $4.12 million signing bonus).

Compared to the three-year, $9.3 million contract (with $3.9 million guaranteed) that we gave Larry Foote to be our backup ILB, first round pick money is a bargain.

Dee Dub
02-28-2012, 06:06 PM
Groton I will agree with all of that except the spending of too much on one position. While I agree with the sentiment, the Steelers have drafted themselves into a corner concerning ILB. They have to get a guy who can start soon...maybe not this season but certainly next. So, they will have to go ILB in the first or second. I don't see a way around it, unless they move one of the youngsters there.


Shwan i agree ILB is a need and Steelers need to find heir apparent to Farrior/Foote but i don't think spending two 1st Rd picks on ILB make sense. Also Steelers hardly blitz their ILBers.

Steelers can get guy like DeMario Davis in Rd 3- Rd 4 or Lavonte Davis in Rd 2 . I believe these players have more potential than Hightower.


The fact that we are blitzing our ILB less and less is a LeBeau problem not a LB problem.


Well it tells us that LeBeau does not like to blitz ILBs much. Why waste a Rd 1 pick on run stopper who can't cover the TEs?

No offense here but did you just become a Steeler fan? Did you not see what he did with the likes of Chad Brown, Levon Kirkland, James Farrior in his prime, and the first couple years with Timmons?

The reason LeBeau hasnt blitzed inside as much over the past two years is the decline of James Farrior and the lack of having a free safety who can cover. Lawrence Timmons is now asked to drop more in coverage where as before he was sent a lot from inside after the QB.

Captain Lemming
02-29-2012, 01:00 AM
Groton I will agree with all of that except the spending of too much on one position. While I agree with the sentiment, the Steelers have drafted themselves into a corner concerning ILB. They have to get a guy who can start soon...maybe not this season but certainly next. So, they will have to go ILB in the first or second. I don't see a way around it, unless they move one of the youngsters there.


Shwan i agree ILB is a need and Steelers need to find heir apparent to Farrior/Foote but i don't think spending two 1st Rd picks on ILB make sense. Also Steelers hardly blitz their ILBers.

Steelers can get guy like DeMario Davis in Rd 3- Rd 4 or Lavonte Davis in Rd 2 . I believe these players have more potential than Hightower.


The fact that we are blitzing our ILB less and less is a LeBeau problem not a LB problem.


Well it tells us that LeBeau does not like to blitz ILBs much. Why waste a Rd 1 pick on run stopper who can't cover the TEs?

No offense here but did you just become a Steeler fan? Did you not see what he did with the likes of Chad Brown, Levon Kirkland, James Farrior in his prime, and the first couple years with Timmons?

The reason LeBeau hasnt blitzed inside as much over the past two years is the decline of James Farrior and the lack of having a free safety who can cover. Lawrence Timmons is now asked to drop more in coverage where as before he was sent a lot from inside after the QB.

Dub, I agree completely. Let me add a name. Kendrell Bell. He brought an inside pass rush big time.

And when talking about Farrior we dont even have to go back that far. Dude was third on the team right after Woodley and Harrison with 6 sacks in 2010.

Lebaeu will bring the inside pressure, as long as he has the horses to bring it. Unlike the weak stuff Timmons brings on a blitz to get stopped by a stinkin 180 pound halfback, Hightower would turn an RB into roadkill enroute to the QB.

How do you stop Gronk? I'd rather have a LBer in Brady's face with Timmons in coverage, than having Brady have more time to throw and another LBer in coverage. And the better pure run stuffer we have next to Timmons the less Troy has to play in the box, and he can also focus on the tight end as a strong safety should.

Someone mentioned this but the stinkin Broncs, not NE ended our season. The only reason is that we sacrificed coverage to stop the run. Having a dependable beast stuffing the run protects you from play action passes, because the secondary has less responsibilty at the LOS.

Dee Dub
02-29-2012, 01:05 AM
Dub, I agree completely. Let me add a name. Kendrell Bell. He brought an inside pass rush big time.

And when talking about Farrior we dont even have to go back that far. Dude was third on the team right after Woodley and Harrison with 6 sacks in 2010.

Lebaeu will bring the inside pressure, as long as he has the horses to bring it. Unlike the weak stuff Timmons brings on a blitz to get stopped by a stinkin 180 pound halfback, Hightower would turn an RB into roadkill enroute to the QB.

How do you stop Gronk? I'd rather have a LBer in Brady's face with Timmons in coverage, than having Brady have more time to throw and another LBer in coverage. And the better pure run stuffer we have next to Timmons the less Troy has to play in the box, and he can also focus on the tight end as a strong safety should.

Someone mentioned this but the stinkin Broncs, not NE ended our season. The only reason is that we sacrificed coverage to stop the run. Having a dependable beast stuffing the run protects you from play action passes, because the secondary has less responsibilty at the LOS.


Great points Captain! I had a brain cramp and forgot about Kendrell Bell coming from inside. He's a great example of what Lebeau will do when he has that type of player inside.

:Clap

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-29-2012, 09:31 AM
It was disappointing he didn't participate in all the times events. He did look stiff in position drills. I'm sure it was expresses to be in his best interest because I didn't hear of any injuries. Doing drills at your proday in the leisure enviroment tends to produce better numbers of record. Don't do anything to kill the momentum out of the combine....a good move for him.

What seperates Hightower and Poe now is floor and ceiling. Hightower's floor is higher but his ceiling is low. Poe's floor is lower than Hightower's but his ceiling is very high. What Poe does have going for him is the ingredients are there to make him an elite player and everything questioned is coachable. Does he realize it...That is the question every player in the draft faces. Hightower will be a solid player in the NFL. If he gets on a great defense he will excell and benefit from good players around him. If he goes on an average defense...How much better does he make them is the question. The similarities to a poor man's Rolando McClain seem to be a good NFL comparison.

What was confirmed to me, is there really is one ILB in this draft who is legit 1st round talent. Kuechly opened the gap on Hightower and Hightower is one of about a dozen kids who would be pushed out of the 1st with other entries. That would in include Poe but Poe's combine raised his ceiling and many will grade him higher than Hightower because of it.

The only guys to fill a need who would be 1st round grade on the board would be Decastro, Glenn, and Kuechly. Unfortunate for the Steelers, they may all be gone. So best of the rest....I hope they could find a trade down partner because they may still be able to get the guy at #24 later. What sucks is...If these guys are gone and they can't trade out....The Steelers have shown they won't overdraft and BPA comes off the board. It may be headed to that again. DAM!

Chadman
02-29-2012, 10:11 AM
Chadman remembers reading a few years back what the point of each of the individual tests at the Combine are meant to prove.

40 Yard tests obviously test the players straight line ability. This is all well and good, but completely irrelevent in most cases as very few players are going to get a free 40 yards to build up momentum & achieve top speed.

Bench press obviously shows physical strength- not a tough one.

A better indicator of a players explosiveness, power & agility come from the cone drills, the shuttle drills & the vertical leap. each test is designed to show a players ability to make short, sharp bursts of power & speed. It is here that we see a players ability to cover in defense, or shoot through gaps at top speed from a standing start.

All this talk of Hightower is great. Obviously his straight line speed is good. That is unquestioned. It's kind of useless though if he's asked to turn & chase in coverage. The ONLY test Hightower took that showed his short area explosion & quickness was the vertical leap. He got a 32" which is not bad, but it puts him 23rd out of the 30 LB's that took the test. That doesn't make him special at all. The fact he opted out of testing the other agility drills is either mildly concerning, or mildly annoying- can't decide which.

Now DD obviously has a massive brilliance going on in his pants over Hightower, so his angle is going to mildly skewed in Hightower's favour. NO DOUBT- Hightower can play. But guys that are 260lbs playing ILB are becoming less & less the ideal. Brandon Spikes was supposed to be a Round 1 type ILB. He got drafted the end of the 2nd. The modern day ILB needs to be able to stop the run, chase sideline to sideline, and cover at worst a TE.

Hightower might be able to do all those things. Yes, you'll tell us to "go watch the tape" of him. Very good- he proved to be a successful player in a successful team. But not all successful college footballers become successful NFL players. It COULD just be a matter of Hightower being a member of a team that benefitted his skills.

For Chadman- while Hightower certainly has the credentials as far as playing record goes- is still a risk. And he's also fallen into the round peg square hole region as guys his size at LB simply are being fazed out as the passing game becomes more the norm.

Athletic, quick twitch LB's are more the model now.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-29-2012, 10:46 AM
Chadman remembers reading a few years back what the point of each of the individual tests at the Combine are meant to prove.

40 Yard tests obviously test the players straight line ability. This is all well and good, but completely irrelevent in most cases as very few players are going to get a free 40 yards to build up momentum & achieve top speed.

Bench press obviously shows physical strength- not a tough one.

A better indicator of a players explosiveness, power & agility come from the cone drills, the shuttle drills & the vertical leap. each test is designed to show a players ability to make short, sharp bursts of power & speed. It is here that we see a players ability to cover in defense, or shoot through gaps at top speed from a standing start.

All this talk of Hightower is great. Obviously his straight line speed is good. That is unquestioned. It's kind of useless though if he's asked to turn & chase in coverage. The ONLY test Hightower took that showed his short area explosion & quickness was the vertical leap. He got a 32" which is not bad, but it puts him 23rd out of the 30 LB's that took the test. That doesn't make him special at all. The fact he opted out of testing the other agility drills is either mildly concerning, or mildly annoying- can't decide which.

Now DD obviously has a massive brilliance going on in his pants over Hightower, so his angle is going to mildly skewed in Hightower's favour. NO DOUBT- Hightower can play. But guys that are 260lbs playing ILB are becoming less & less the ideal. Brandon Spikes was supposed to be a Round 1 type ILB. He got drafted the end of the 2nd. The modern day ILB needs to be able to stop the run, chase sideline to sideline, and cover at worst a TE.

Hightower might be able to do all those things. Yes, you'll tell us to "go watch the tape" of him. Very good- he proved to be a successful player in a successful team. But not all successful college footballers become successful NFL players. It COULD just be a matter of Hightower being a member of a team that benefitted his skills.

For Chadman- while Hightower certainly has the credentials as far as playing record goes- is still a risk. And he's also fallen into the round peg square hole region as guys his size at LB simply are being fazed out as the passing game becomes more the norm.

Athletic, quick twitch LB's are more the model now.

I suspect he was told not to work his cone drills because it will slow his momentum. Pro Days are more leisure amd we all know what happens on the Pro day. He looked stiff at the combine in position drills. I saw a down hill ILB. He did nothing to this point yet to tell me he could be a 3 down ILB at the next level.

An fyi, Konz looked better than I thought he would in position drills.

steelz09
02-29-2012, 11:08 AM
Chadman remembers reading a few years back what the point of each of the individual tests at the Combine are meant to prove.

40 Yard tests obviously test the players straight line ability. This is all well and good, but completely irrelevent in most cases as very few players are going to get a free 40 yards to build up momentum & achieve top speed.

Bench press obviously shows physical strength- not a tough one.

A better indicator of a players explosiveness, power & agility come from the cone drills, the shuttle drills & the vertical leap. each test is designed to show a players ability to make short, sharp bursts of power & speed. It is here that we see a players ability to cover in defense, or shoot through gaps at top speed from a standing start.

All this talk of Hightower is great. Obviously his straight line speed is good. That is unquestioned. It's kind of useless though if he's asked to turn & chase in coverage. The ONLY test Hightower took that showed his short area explosion & quickness was the vertical leap. He got a 32" which is not bad, but it puts him 23rd out of the 30 LB's that took the test. That doesn't make him special at all. The fact he opted out of testing the other agility drills is either mildly concerning, or mildly annoying- can't decide which.

Now DD obviously has a massive brilliance going on in his pants over Hightower, so his angle is going to mildly skewed in Hightower's favour. NO DOUBT- Hightower can play. But guys that are 260lbs playing ILB are becoming less & less the ideal. Brandon Spikes was supposed to be a Round 1 type ILB. He got drafted the end of the 2nd. The modern day ILB needs to be able to stop the run, chase sideline to sideline, and cover at worst a TE.

Hightower might be able to do all those things. Yes, you'll tell us to "go watch the tape" of him. Very good- he proved to be a successful player in a successful team. But not all successful college footballers become successful NFL players. It COULD just be a matter of Hightower being a member of a team that benefitted his skills.

For Chadman- while Hightower certainly has the credentials as far as playing record goes- is still a risk. And he's also fallen into the round peg square hole region as guys his size at LB simply are being fazed out as the passing game becomes more the norm.

Athletic, quick twitch LB's are more the model now.

So you want Timmons and our other ILB in coverage against elite passing teams? You want Timmons and our "other" LB covering the likes of Jimmy Graham, Gronhowski, Finley, etc down the field?? I certainly don't. I want our secondary covering and our linebackers blitzing. The elite QB's will pick apart LB's in coverage especially if they don't have pressure in their face.

As far as facing the elite passing teams.... We won't make it far enough to play them because the Ravens will be winning the division. Rice and Co. will run right down our throats and then torch us on play action because we'll need to "sell out" to stop the run.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-29-2012, 11:23 AM
So you want Timmons and our other ILB in coverage against elite passing teams? You want Timmons and our "other" LB covering the likes of Jimmy Graham, Gronhowski, Finley, etc down the field?? I certainly don't. I want our secondary covering and our linebackers blitzing. The elite QB's will pick apart LB's in coverage especially if they don't have pressure in their face.

As far as facing the elite passing teams.... We won't make it far enough to play them because the Ravens will be winning the division. Rice and Co. will run right down our throats and then torch us on play action because we'll need to "sell out" to stop the run.
Well of course you don't want that match up but when the Pats go 12 & 22 personnel we stay in base. The ILB have to match up. If we run out nickel they run on it. Ravens are a perfect example. We know they want to run and gear up for it but what kills us? Rice out of the backfield and a no name TE running down the seam. We are in base with Troy in the box so who matches up with Rice, Pitta, & Dickson? The ILB has to make a drop off playaction or find them through the trash and man up. ILB have to cover and our division is heavy with it. I know in a perfect world you would like to get both but if you are run heavy up the middle the O will expose it. If you have run & hit ILBs you could keep them clean with good DT or our case NT. What really hurt us the last two years, our NT is tailing off and our LILB lost a step and that recipe was burnt.

Shawn
02-29-2012, 12:29 PM
I 100% agree with the Chadman. Give me a twitch guy, over a 260 thumper who won't be able to cover NFL TEs.

Dee Dub
02-29-2012, 01:16 PM
I 100% agree with the Chadman. Give me a twitch guy, over a 260 thumper who won't be able to cover NFL TEs.

But that twitch guy doesnt fit the Steelers mold for ILB. And that is why you havent seen one on the Steelers.

And I disagree, in a 3-4 zone blitz, Hightower will be able to cover most of the NFL's TE's. Just like he did at Alabama. Now the Gronkowski's of the world are different. There isnt a LB in the NFL who can cover him. So apples to oranges.

Slapstick
02-29-2012, 01:51 PM
With all due respect, the "norm" for LBs matters little in this case...

The questions are:

Is that player worth the #24 pick?

Does the player fit with what he will be asked to do within the scheme?

Truly, only the Steelers FO knows the answers...

grotonsteel
02-29-2012, 01:53 PM
What is KEI of Donta Hightower?

And any idea why Donta skipped Bench, Vertical Jump and Broad Jump at the combine?

Dee Dub
02-29-2012, 01:59 PM
With all due respect, the "norm" for LBs matters little in this case...

The questions are:

Is that player worth the #24 pick?

Does the player fit with what he will be asked to do within the scheme?

Truly, only the Steelers FO knows the answers...

I have always preferred that they trade down for Hightower but the problem is he more than likely wont get past Baltimore or New England. So with that I think you have to draft him at 24.

And since he played in Saban's 3-4 zone blitz we all should know the answer to whether or not he fits with what he will be asked to do within the the scheme.

Dee Dub
02-29-2012, 02:04 PM
What is KEI of Donta Hightower?

And any idea why Donta skipped Bench, Vertical Jump and Broad Jump at the combine?

Probably the same reason why Luck and RGIII chose not to throw.

But again, who cares? One needs only look at his game tape to see that Hightower is very strong and explosive football wise. That's actually his strength. He blows up people all over the field. He is as good as it gets in stacking and shedding blocks.

The bench press, vertical jump, and broad jump are all about strength and explosiveness, with a little bit of athleticism for the later two. He has shown at 265lbs he is very athletic.

RuthlessBurgher
02-29-2012, 02:07 PM
Now DD obviously has a massive brilliance going on in his pants over Hightower

:lol:

Gotta love learning new expressions from overseas...

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-29-2012, 02:10 PM
What is KEI of Donta Hightower?

And any idea why Donta skipped Bench, Vertical Jump and Broad Jump at the combine?

Probably the same reason why Luck and RGIII chose not to throw.

But again, who cares? One needs only look at his game tape to see that Hightower is very strong and explosive football wise. That's actually his strength. He blows up people all over the field. He is as good as it gets in stacking and shedding blocks.

The bench press, vertical jump, and broad jump are all about strength and explosiveness, with a little bit of athleticism for the later two. He has shown at 265lbs he is very athletic.
Hightower is very good at shedding. The guy is a good football player. I just see him struggling in coverage at the next level. College SEC isn't NFL. Might be the closest...But not NFL.

The QBs not throwing has nothing to do with Hightower. QBs don't throw because they want to throw to their own and be on the same page so it looks better. Also helps out his receivers. That isn't a secret. Hightower not doing all the drills means one thing if he wasn't hurt. He was advised not to for a reason. No matter what he does at his proday he chose not to compete against the rest. Every wonder why an entire prospect class from the same school puts up better numbers at the proday versus combine? It isn't something in the water. :wink:

steelz09
02-29-2012, 02:37 PM
What makes anyone think that Brown or whomever else can come in and play ILB in a 3-4? Additionally, Brown is currently too small to play the inside in a 3-4 just like Timmons was before he gained his weight & strength (and it shows). Do you think Brown will be noticably faster than Hightower when he puts on that weight?

Also, Hightower is proven in a 3-4. ILB in a 3-4 is a BIG difference than a OLB/ILB in a 4-3... Granted, I didn't play at the college level but I played OLB in a 3-4. ILB is a different beast all together.

I always thought 3-4 ILB was more difficult:

1) The vision - Diagnosing plays QUICKLY whether it's a run play,fake handoff or play action, misdirections, etc
2) Dealing w/ people coming from every angle to block you.... not just guards
3) Shifting through the trash on the inside

Oviedo
02-29-2012, 03:10 PM
I 100% agree with the Chadman. Give me a twitch guy, over a 260 thumper who won't be able to cover NFL TEs.

But that twitch guy doesnt fit the Steelers mold for ILB. And that is why you havent seen one on the Steelers.

And I disagree, in a 3-4 zone blitz, Hightower will be able to cover most of the NFL's TE's. Just like he did at Alabama. Now the Gronkowski's of the world are different. There isnt a LB in the NFL who can cover him. So apples to oranges.

:Agree Saying a LB can't cover Gronkowski or Vernon Davis is a ridiculous argument. I'm not sure that Troy P could cover either of them that well.

Shawn
02-29-2012, 05:39 PM
I 100% agree with the Chadman. Give me a twitch guy, over a 260 thumper who won't be able to cover NFL TEs.

But that twitch guy doesnt fit the Steelers mold for ILB. And that is why you havent seen one on the Steelers.

And I disagree, in a 3-4 zone blitz, Hightower will be able to cover most of the NFL's TE's. Just like he did at Alabama. Now the Gronkowski's of the world are different. There isnt a LB in the NFL who can cover him. So apples to oranges.

Twitch guys certainly don't fit the old vision of Steeler ILBs. That I agree with. But, if anyone can cover Gronkowski it's a linebacker who can run a low 4.4. There are rumors that Brown has run sub 4.3. The guy is an athletic freak of nature. He is certainly more raw, and a bigger project but the sky is the limit on this guy.

Check out this article on Brown

http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/887610.html

Dee Dub
02-29-2012, 06:11 PM
I 100% agree with the Chadman. Give me a twitch guy, over a 260 thumper who won't be able to cover NFL TEs.

But that twitch guy doesnt fit the Steelers mold for ILB. And that is why you havent seen one on the Steelers.

And I disagree, in a 3-4 zone blitz, Hightower will be able to cover most of the NFL's TE's. Just like he did at Alabama. Now the Gronkowski's of the world are different. There isnt a LB in the NFL who can cover him. So apples to oranges.

Twitch guys certainly don't fit the old vision of Steeler ILBs. That I agree with. But, if anyone can cover Gronkowski it's a linebacker who can run a low 4.4. There are rumors that Brown has run sub 4.3. The guy is an athletic freak of nature. He is certainly more raw, and a bigger project but the sky is the limit on this guy.

Check out this article on Brown

http://northcarolina.scout.com/2/887610.html

Shawn I wouldn't be totally opposed to this. If you remember awhile back I proposed this same type of thing with LB Lavante David of Nebraska. Here's the problem though, Zach Brown is a 4-3 weakside LB. To ask him to move inside in a 3-4 is a tall order. You wont get anything out of him in year one and maybe not much in year two either. And there is no guarantee he make the transition.

I would prefer more of a sure thing in Hightower. We already know he can play the position. And James Farrior doenst have another year left in him.

Chadman
02-29-2012, 06:22 PM
You guys are all talking like James Farrior is your classic 'Thumper' in the middle.

He isn't.

He's playing at 230lbs or lower, he covers passing zones & fills gaps in the running gap with his quickness, not his straight line speed.

Well, at least he used to do that.

Getting an ILB that plays 230-240lbs isn't a break from Steeler tradition. Levon Kirkland's days are long passed. He played in the day where your running game was the staple.

Not so anymore.

Hightower certainly looks like a talented footballer. There is no doubt in that. But he is your classic 'Thumper'. That's a dying breed of footballer.

Get a guy that is quick in & out of his movements, and you get your ILB that can fill gaps as they appear, or not get juked out of his shoes by the Ray Rice's of the NFL.

Nigel Bradham, for example, is a great hit-and-stick tackler, but he's also agile. Players like him are the way the NFL is going.

Nothing Hightower does on film makes Chadman think he's overly agile. He's good in straight lines, excels even, but he's only ok laterally.

And the argument that Hightower will start Day 1 but the other ILB's will wait is complete "Brilliance in thou pants" stuff- either Foote or Farrior will be brought back to hold the spot until our rookie is ready to go. If you don't believe that- you obviously haven't been watching Steeler football the last 20 years or so...

Dee Dub
02-29-2012, 06:41 PM
You guys are all talking like James Farrior is your classic 'Thumper' in the middle.

He isn't.

He's playing at 230lbs or lower, he covers passing zones & fills gaps in the running gap with his quickness, not his straight line speed.

Well, at least he used to do that.

Getting an ILB that plays 230-240lbs isn't a break from Steeler tradition. Levon Kirkland's days are long passed. He played in the day where your running game was the staple.

Not so anymore.

Hightower certainly looks like a talented footballer. There is no doubt in that. But he is your classic 'Thumper'. That's a dying breed of footballer.

Get a guy that is quick in & out of his movements, and you get your ILB that can fill gaps as they appear, or not get juked out of his shoes by the Ray Rice's of the NFL.

Nigel Bradham, for example, is a great hit-and-stick tackler, but he's also agile. Players like him are the way the NFL is going.

Nothing Hightower does on film makes Chadman think he's overly agile. He's good in straight lines, excels even, but he's only ok laterally.

And the argument that Hightower will start Day 1 but the other ILB's will wait is complete "Brilliance in thou pants" stuff- either Foote or Farrior will be brought back to hold the spot until our rookie is ready to go. If you don't believe that- you obviously haven't been watching Steeler football the last 20 years or so...

The "thumper" thing really doesnt have a lot to do with their weight. It's how they play down hill. The ability to shed and take on blocks. In his prime, Farrior was one of the best 3-4 ILB to do that. Patrick Willis goes 240. He can thump. Brian Urlacher pushes close to 260 (listed at 258), and he is a thumper. There is nearly 20 lbs difference between these two and they both bring it.

"You guys" act like the league is doing a way with running the ball. They arent. Many teams are still running the ball very much. And the Ravens happen to be built around Ray Rice and his ability to run the ball. The Giants just won the super bowl and they are a very balanced attack in pass/run.

Nigel Bradham? Great another Stevenson Sylvester. A 4-3 LB'er in college who is going into year 3 and we still dont know if he can play.

Dee Dub
02-29-2012, 06:55 PM
Nothing Hightower does on film makes Chadman think he's overly agile. He's good in straight lines, excels even, but he's only ok laterally.

Who cares about him not be overly agile? He's a play maker. Bottom line.




And the argument that Hightower will start Day 1 but the other ILB's will wait is complete "Brilliance in thou pants" stuff- either Foote or Farrior will be brought back to hold the spot until our rookie is ready to go. If you don't believe that- you obviously haven't been watching Steeler football the last 20 years or so...

If the Steelers draft Hightower you can take it to the bank James Farrior will not be back with the Steelers.

Why wouldn't Hightower not be ready to go? He played in nearly the same scheme in college. The past rookies who have had to sit were all trying to get acclimated to the 3-4 zone blitz. Hightower knows it very well. Not even the great Troy Polamalu could you say that about.

Chadman
02-29-2012, 06:57 PM
The "thumper" thing really doesnt have a lot to do with their weight. It's how they play down hill. The ability to shed and take on blocks. In his prime, Farrior was one of the best 3-4 ILB to do that. Patrick Willis goes 240. He can thump. Brian Urlacher pushes close to 260 (listed at 258), and he is a thumper. There is nearly 20 lbs difference between these two and they both bring it.

This doesn't help your Hightower argument, so much as it actually shows that the smaller, more agile guys can actually fill that 'Thumper' role quite adequately.

Chadman
02-29-2012, 06:59 PM
Nothing Hightower does on film makes Chadman think he's overly agile. He's good in straight lines, excels even, but he's only ok laterally.

Who cares about him not be overly agile? He's a play maker. Bottom line.




And the argument that Hightower will start Day 1 but the other ILB's will wait is complete "Brilliance in thou pants" stuff- either Foote or Farrior will be brought back to hold the spot until our rookie is ready to go. If you don't believe that- you obviously haven't been watching Steeler football the last 20 years or so...

If the Steelers draft Hightower you can take it to the bank James Farrior will not be back with the Steelers.

Why wouldn't Hightower not be ready to go? He played in nearly the same scheme in college. The past rookies who have had to sit were all trying to get acclimated to the 3-4 zone blitz. Hightower knows it very well. Not even the great Troy Polamalu could you say that about.


History will back up Chadman's argument that Hightower won't be drafted to start more than it backs up your argument that he will.

Chadman
02-29-2012, 07:01 PM
Who cares about him not be overly agile?

Given that all the LB's drafted under Tomlin & Colbert have excelled in the 3 Cone & Shuttle drills- Chadman is betting that the Steelers do.

Dee Dub
02-29-2012, 07:02 PM
The "thumper" thing really doesnt have a lot to do with their weight. It's how they play down hill. The ability to shed and take on blocks. In his prime, Farrior was one of the best 3-4 ILB to do that. Patrick Willis goes 240. He can thump. Brian Urlacher pushes close to 260 (listed at 258), and he is a thumper. There is nearly 20 lbs difference between these two and they both bring it.

This doesn't help your Hightower argument, so much as it actually shows that the smaller, more agile guys can actually fill that 'Thumper' role quite adequately.

If you think I want Hightower for the Steelers because of his size you havent been paying attention. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Chadman
02-29-2012, 07:05 PM
The "thumper" thing really doesnt have a lot to do with their weight. It's how they play down hill. The ability to shed and take on blocks. In his prime, Farrior was one of the best 3-4 ILB to do that. Patrick Willis goes 240. He can thump. Brian Urlacher pushes close to 260 (listed at 258), and he is a thumper. There is nearly 20 lbs difference between these two and they both bring it.

This doesn't help your Hightower argument, so much as it actually shows that the smaller, more agile guys can actually fill that 'Thumper' role quite adequately.

If you think I want Hightower for the Steelers because of his size you havent been paying attention. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

No- Chadman understands you want him because he's a playmaker. Get that.

No problem with that at all.

Chadman's point is that he'll be limited as an NFL player due to not being as agile & shifty laterally as other prospects, when there is a growing trend of passing the ball across the NFL.

RuthlessBurgher
02-29-2012, 07:14 PM
Nigel Bradham, for example, is a great hit-and-stick tackler, but he's also agile. Players like him are the way the NFL is going.

Perhaps people are getting stuck on his name.

"Nigel Bradham" sounds like a "tea and crumpets" type of footballer playing in the Premiership, not a "brats and beer" type of footballer playing in the NFL.

Dee Dub
02-29-2012, 07:39 PM
No- Chadman understands you want him because he's a playmaker. Get that.

No problem with that at all.

Chadman's point is that he'll be limited as an NFL player due to not being as agile & shifty laterally as other prospects, when there is a growing trend of passing the ball across the NFL.

And what do you base this on? What you have read? On the field I never seen Hightower as being limited because he is not as agile & shifty laterally. Chadman, I would suggest you watch some tape of Hightower. He is nothing like you portray him to be.

And your idea that the league is going away from running the ball doesnt hold water either. 25 of 32 teams last year averaged over 100 yards rushing per game. And 22 teams threw for less than 250 yards on average per game. And 11 of those actually threw for less than 200 yards per game.

The Baltimore Ravens ran the ball 459 times last year, They arent going away from the run.

They got you Chadman. The media got you to believe something that isnt true.

Slapstick
02-29-2012, 08:27 PM
Hightower had a late-first round grade prior to the combine, right?

Did he have a crappy combine workout when I wasn't looking?

Chadman
02-29-2012, 09:19 PM
Chadman's eyes tell him that the passing game across the NFL is certainly more in vogue now than ever before. Perhaps Chadman sees it wrong- but it's still what he sees.

Same with Hightower. An explosive tackler? Yes. A decent pass rusher? Yes. Good run stuffer? Yes.

Good at coverage? Not really. Don't worry- if it makes you feel better, watching Audie Cole who is supposed to be more the 'coverage style' type of ILB leaves Chadman cold too.

Don't get your panties in a knot- Chadman agrees that Hightower is a good player. But Chadman has doubts on him being as good in the NFL as his college career suggests, because to Chadman- he looks limited in those quick twitch type plays.

Could be wrong.

And if he's drafted by the Steelers- sure hope Chadman is wrong.

focosteeler
02-29-2012, 09:38 PM
Chadman's eyes tell him that the passing game across the NFL is certainly more in vogue now than ever before. Perhaps Chadman sees it wrong- but it's still what he sees.

Same with Hightower. An explosive tackler? Yes. A decent pass rusher? Yes. Good run stuffer? Yes.

Good at coverage? Not really. Don't worry- if it makes you feel better, watching Audie Cole who is supposed to be more the 'coverage style' type of ILB leaves Chadman cold too.

Don't get your panties in a knot- Chadman agrees that Hightower is a good player. But Chadman has doubts on him being as good in the NFL as his college career suggests, because to Chadman- he looks limited in those quick twitch type plays.

Could be wrong.

And if he's drafted by the Steelers- sure hope Chadman is wrong.

This is always bugging me when it comes to players from Alabama and LSU as well. Their Defenses are always so great at all positions I cant tell if they shine because the group or if its actually thier greatness.

steelz09
02-29-2012, 11:27 PM
Ok, so who is this "agile" ILB (Brown, or whoever else) going to cover.. ?

Gronkowski - That's not happening

Jimmy Graham - That's not happening

Finley - That's not happening

Vernon Davis - That's not happening either...

Let's try the same game with running backs.

McFadden - That's not happening

Reggie Bush - That's not happening

Jamaal Charles - That's not happening

Ray Rice - That's not happening

Jones-Drew - That's not happening

Darren Sproles - That's not happening

So again, who is this "agile" LB that you want going to cover? Timmons can't consistently cover anyone on this list, neither can Patrick Willis, Hightower or any ILB in this entire draft. So for the Hightower haters out there, spare me the "he's not agile" enough talk. It's humorous. :) There isn't a ILB in the league currently or a ILB in this draft that can consistently cover any of these TEs/RBs and these are the types we're talking about. Willis is probably the closest one and there isn't a Willis in this draft and even if there was one, we're not a top-10 pick so we can keep dreaming.

Chadman
03-01-2012, 12:16 AM
Just because Chadman isn't convinced Hightower will be as much of a success as some do, does not make him a 'hater'.

But to answer your many questions- chances are none of the LB's will- at least not consistantly.

But will they do it more consistantly than Hightower?

:stirpot

Shawn
03-01-2012, 12:46 AM
Ok, so who is this "agile" ILB (Brown, or whoever else) going to cover.. ?

Gronkowski - That's not happening

Jimmy Graham - That's not happening

Finley - That's not happening

Vernon Davis - That's not happening either...

Let's try the same game with running backs.

McFadden - That's not happening

Reggie Bush - That's not happening

Jamaal Charles - That's not happening

Ray Rice - That's not happening

Jones-Drew - That's not happening

Darren Sproles - That's not happening

So again, who is this "agile" LB that you want going to cover? Timmons can't consistently cover anyone on this list, neither can Patrick Willis, Hightower or any ILB in this entire draft. So for the Hightower haters out there, spare me the "he's not agile" enough talk. It's humorous. :) There isn't a ILB in the league currently or a ILB in this draft that can consistently cover any of these TEs/RBs and these are the types we're talking about. Willis is probably the closest one and there isn't a Willis in this draft and even if there was one, we're not a top-10 pick so we can keep dreaming.

I don't see why not. Lbrs who run 4.4 or better don't come around very often. Why can't Brown cover most of these guys?

grotonsteel
03-01-2012, 01:12 AM
Chadman's eyes tell him that the passing game across the NFL is certainly more in vogue now than ever before. Perhaps Chadman sees it wrong- but it's still what he sees.

Same with Hightower. An explosive tackler? Yes. A decent pass rusher? Yes. Good run stuffer? Yes.

Good at coverage? Not really. Don't worry- if it makes you feel better, watching Audie Cole who is supposed to be more the 'coverage style' type of ILB leaves Chadman cold too.

Don't get your panties in a knot- Chadman agrees that Hightower is a good player. But Chadman has doubts on him being as good in the NFL as his college career suggests, because to Chadman- he looks limited in those quick twitch type plays.

Could be wrong.

And if he's drafted by the Steelers- sure hope Chadman is wrong.

This is always bugging me when it comes to players from Alabama and LSU as well. Their Defenses are always so great at all positions I cant tell if they shine because the group or if its actually thier greatness.


Good point. Has any Bama players coached by Nick Saban lived up to their hype in NFL?

If Steelers draft Donta Hightower i hope he breaks the norm and turns into All-Pro.

Captain Lemming
03-01-2012, 01:40 AM
Seems a lot of you want Timmons II. We ALREADY HAVE THAT GUY. We dont need a clone we need someone with different strengths.

Would any of you not love to see a Kirkland type filling that role?

Honestly, would you reject that kind of player along side the more agile Timmons?

Great inside linebackers are not found by the clock. They have instincts read and anticipate. This kid is the leader of a great defense.

Ray Lewis was the FOURTH LBer chosen in his draft, because he is not the most impressive guy in workouts.

But he was the dominant dude leading an outstanding Miami defense. But he doesnt look like your classi "quick twitch" guy. He know where the play is going and he is there to "greet" mr ball carrier. A lead blocker cant stop him. He aint the greatest guy in coverage, but he is was a dominant force for years. Would a guy like that be useless because he cant cover like a safety?

Can you read where the play is going? Can you shed blocks? That is far more important at this position than shuttle runs.

Who do you want? Another Timmons or a Kirkland?

Both are available who would you take?

Dee Dub
03-01-2012, 01:47 AM
Seems a lot of you want Timmons II. We ALREADY HAVE THAT GUY. We dont need a clone we need someone with different strengths.

Would any of you not love to see a Kirkland type filling that role?

Honestly, would you reject that kind of player along side the more agile Timmons?

Great inside linebackers are not found by the clock. They have instincts read and anticipate. This kid is the leader of a great defense.

Ray Lewis was the FOURTH LBer chosen in his draft, because he is not the most impressive guy in workouts.

But he was the dominant dude leading an outstanding Miami defense. But he doesnt look like your classi "quick twitch" guy. He know where the play is going and he is there to "greet" mr ball carrier. A lead blocker cant stop him. He aint the greatest guy in coverage, but he is was a dominant force for years. Would a guy like that be useless because he cant cover like a safety?

Can you read where the play is going? Can you shed blocks? That is far more important at this position than shuttle runs.

Who do you want? Another Timmons or a Kirkland?

Both are available who would you take?

:Clap

Great post Captain!! This is "one" of the reasons why I have been pushing him. Not just because he is a solid ILB but because he compliments what Timmons brings.

He fills the need and the style of the Mack the Steelers have had for a long time.

Dee Dub
03-01-2012, 01:58 AM
Good point. Has any Bama players coached by Nick Saban lived up to their hype in NFL?

Well he's only been the Alabama head coach for 5 years but Marcell Darius had a solid year as a rookie for Buffalo last year and Rolando McClain is becoming one of the better ILB in the NFL (99 tackles, 5 sacks, and 13 PD's last year from the ILB spot is pretty darn good).

Chadman
03-01-2012, 02:03 AM
You still make it sound as if Farrior was a Kirkland clone at ILB. He wasn't/isn't. He's a smaller, faster guy that filled holes well, had good lateral agility & could cover (not including his post 35 year career).

If Chadman had a choice between Kirkland, Timmons & Farrior- it'd be another Farrior.

Captain Lemming
03-01-2012, 03:09 AM
You still make it sound as if Farrior was a Kirkland clone at ILB. He wasn't/isn't. He's a smaller, faster guy that filled holes well, had good lateral agility & could cover (not including his post 35 year career).

If Chadman had a choice between Kirkland, Timmons & Farrior- it'd be another Farrior.

Chadman, I never mentioned Farrior. Lets talk Farrior. That BC kid is the next Farrior. He is the cant miss kid very similar to a young Farrior will be gone like Farrior in the first half of round 1. I would draft that kid in a heartbeat.

Given that Farrior would not be around when we draft, do you say you would say no if Kirkland was available at 24?

Chadman
03-01-2012, 05:08 AM
Given that Farrior would not be around when we draft, do you say you would say no if Kirkland was available at 24?

Can anyone remember Kirkland's measurables?


Chances are, if we were looking at a 6'1" 275lbs ILB, Chadman's initial thought would be- no.

Really, Kirkland was a freak. Guys his size shouldn't be able to play the way he did.

So, with the benefit of hindsight, in a way, Chadman would have been wrong on Kirkland & said no.

That said, law of averages, given a player not named Kirkland at 6'1" 275lbs playing LB- most of those guys would simply be too slow & not agile enough.

Here's a question- can you guarentee Hightower is Kirkland Mark II?

Chadman
03-01-2012, 05:11 AM
By the way- did you realise Levon Kirkland was an OLB at Clemson that moved inside after the Steelers drafted him?

Oviedo
03-01-2012, 08:39 AM
Ok, so who is this "agile" ILB (Brown, or whoever else) going to cover.. ?

Gronkowski - That's not happening

Jimmy Graham - That's not happening

Finley - That's not happening

Vernon Davis - That's not happening either...

Let's try the same game with running backs.

McFadden - That's not happening

Reggie Bush - That's not happening

Jamaal Charles - That's not happening

Ray Rice - That's not happening

Jones-Drew - That's not happening

Darren Sproles - That's not happening

So again, who is this "agile" LB that you want going to cover? Timmons can't consistently cover anyone on this list, neither can Patrick Willis, Hightower or any ILB in this entire draft. So for the Hightower haters out there, spare me the "he's not agile" enough talk. It's humorous. :) There isn't a ILB in the league currently or a ILB in this draft that can consistently cover any of these TEs/RBs and these are the types we're talking about. Willis is probably the closest one and there isn't a Willis in this draft and even if there was one, we're not a top-10 pick so we can keep dreaming.

:Agree The way the league has implemented the rules and limited contact there are few LBs in the entire league that can cover these new breed of TEs or RBs. Heck most Safeties can't cover them either.

Using this as a reason to run down Hightower is as you stated laughable and only a Trojan Horse to conceal the real motive that posters have other favorites. Hightower would be a solid addition to our defense.

Shawn
03-01-2012, 09:25 AM
By the way- did you realise Levon Kirkland was an OLB at Clemson that moved inside after the Steelers drafted him?

Ohhh scnap!

:lol:

steelz09
03-01-2012, 09:29 AM
Ok, so who is this "agile" ILB (Brown, or whoever else) going to cover.. ?

Gronkowski - That's not happening

Jimmy Graham - That's not happening

Finley - That's not happening

Vernon Davis - That's not happening either...

Let's try the same game with running backs.

McFadden - That's not happening

Reggie Bush - That's not happening

Jamaal Charles - That's not happening

Ray Rice - That's not happening

Jones-Drew - That's not happening

Darren Sproles - That's not happening

So again, who is this "agile" LB that you want going to cover? Timmons can't consistently cover anyone on this list, neither can Patrick Willis, Hightower or any ILB in this entire draft. So for the Hightower haters out there, spare me the "he's not agile" enough talk. It's humorous. :) There isn't a ILB in the league currently or a ILB in this draft that can consistently cover any of these TEs/RBs and these are the types we're talking about. Willis is probably the closest one and there isn't a Willis in this draft and even if there was one, we're not a top-10 pick so we can keep dreaming.

I don't see why not. Lbrs who run 4.4 or better don't come around very often. Why can't Brown cover most of these guys?

Brown's best time was a 4.5 I believe. .12 better than Hightower but 15 pounds lighter. Add about 10 pouds of muscle to Brown's frame (he'll need it just like Timmons' did) and do you think he'll still run a 4.5? Probably not. More like a 4.6x (i.e. Hightower)

But to answer your question, I don't see a LB in this league that covers those guys effectively give today's rules. And there are A LOT of good LB's in th league. If the guys currently in the league can't do it, I don't see anyone in this draft doing it.... because no LB in this draft is as good as Willis was when he was drafted.

feltdizz
03-01-2012, 09:55 AM
Ok, so who is this "agile" ILB (Brown, or whoever else) going to cover.. ?

Gronkowski - That's not happening

Jimmy Graham - That's not happening

Finley - That's not happening

Vernon Davis - That's not happening either...

Let's try the same game with running backs.

McFadden - That's not happening

Reggie Bush - That's not happening

Jamaal Charles - That's not happening

Ray Rice - That's not happening

Jones-Drew - That's not happening

Darren Sproles - That's not happening

So again, who is this "agile" LB that you want going to cover? Timmons can't consistently cover anyone on this list, neither can Patrick Willis, Hightower or any ILB in this entire draft. So for the Hightower haters out there, spare me the "he's not agile" enough talk. It's humorous. :) There isn't a ILB in the league currently or a ILB in this draft that can consistently cover any of these TEs/RBs and these are the types we're talking about. Willis is probably the closest one and there isn't a Willis in this draft and even if there was one, we're not a top-10 pick so we can keep dreaming.

I don't see why not. Lbrs who run 4.4 or better don't come around very often. Why can't Brown cover most of these guys?

The list makes no sense at all...

It's not about drafting a guy who can blanket the best players in the league that we usually play once every 2 years...

The draft is about finding the best player who can succeed in "our scheme"

Hightower reminds me of Kendrell Bell... which is good and bad. He blitzes and looks quick to the QB but running from sideline to sideline he looks really slow...

Dee Dub
03-01-2012, 10:31 AM
By the way- did you realise Levon Kirkland was an OLB at Clemson that moved inside after the Steelers drafted him?

Ohhh scnap!

:lol:

Uhhhhhhhh...do you guys realize that Hightower is used as and OLB and a down DE by Saban on many occassions?

You two really dont know that much about Hightower, do you? :lol: You are in for a great surprise should the Steelers draft him.

Dee Dub
03-01-2012, 10:37 AM
It's not about drafting a guy who can blanket the best players in the league that we usually play once every 2 years...

The draft is about finding the best player who can succeed in "our scheme"

Hightower reminds me of Kendrell Bell... which is good and bad. He blitzes and looks quick to the QB but running from sideline to sideline he looks really slow...

This is a contradiction. Hightower excelled in the same scheme at Alabama. He didnt do well on occasion. He was a stand out. He played at a first round level. To suggest he played only well on certain types of plays is ridiculous and to compare him to Kendrell Bell is not knowing much about the player.

I have shown clips where he has run down RB's like Will Demps and Chris Rainey from the middle of the field. He is far from slow laterally.

Dee Dub
03-01-2012, 10:40 AM
You still make it sound as if Farrior was a Kirkland clone at ILB. He wasn't/isn't. He's a smaller, faster guy that filled holes well, had good lateral agility & could cover (not including his post 35 year career).

If Chadman had a choice between Kirkland, Timmons & Farrior- it'd be another Farrior.

Are you kidding me? Did you forget that when he first came to the Steelers they had Kendrell Bell next to him? Farrior's role has changed over the years. What he came as isnt what he was three years ago.

Captain Lemming
03-01-2012, 10:56 AM
By the way- did you realise Levon Kirkland was an OLB at Clemson that moved inside after the Steelers drafted him?

Ohhh scnap!

:lol:

Oh snap? Really? :lol:

Chadman says he would draft FARRIOR over Kirk and he come up with this weak logic? What position did he pjay in college? Really Shawn?

Ohhh my.....SNAP BACK....DONT COME AT ME WITH SMACK...I WILL ALWAYS SET YOU BACK...WITH LOGIC AND FACT. :lol:

Chadman
03-01-2012, 11:06 AM
By the way- did you realise Levon Kirkland was an OLB at Clemson that moved inside after the Steelers drafted him?

Ohhh scnap!

:lol:

Uhhhhhhhh...do you guys realize that Hightower is used as and OLB and a down DE by Saban on many occassions?

You two really dont know that much about Hightower, do you? :lol: You are in for a great surprise should the Steelers draft him.

Every year DD you get this love conection with a player & any critisism of the player ends up being a personal affront to you.

We get it mate- you love him. To you, he's Kirkland, Farrior, Lloyd & Ham wrapped up in one. Heck, he's probably got the ghost of Reggie White infused into his veins. On top of that, it's possible he can cover a rabbit in an open field. With his eyes closed, using the Force to guide him.

Remember Taylor Mays & how well he worked out?

You should, of all of us in here, right? He held this mantle so short a time ago.

Oh- you remember how fast & explosive he was, don't you? But how he got shown up on the field because he, well, couldn't move laterally? He wasn't agile?

Sounding familiar at all?

You might be right. Hightower might turn out to be awesome. But no amount of man-love between the 2 of you is about to convince Chadman that his movement skills, laterally, his agility, and his ability to cover against the pass are any more than "ok".

And when you step up from COLLEGE football to the NFL- those little things kinda get shown up.

Shawn
03-01-2012, 11:08 AM
By the way- did you realise Levon Kirkland was an OLB at Clemson that moved inside after the Steelers drafted him?

Ohhh scnap!

:lol:

Oh snap? Really? :lol:

Chadman says he would draft FARRIOR over Kirk and he come up with this weak logic? What position did he pjay in college? Really Shawn?

Ohhh my.....SNAP BACK....DONT COME AT ME WITH SMACK...I WILL ALWAYS SET YOU BACK...WITH LOGIC AND FACT. :lol:

Yeah son I went there. :lol:

But, you must add the c...scnap for effect. I believe it adds a lil sumthin sumthin. :D

Shawn
03-01-2012, 11:10 AM
Chadman wrote

We get it mate- you love him. To you, he's Kirkland, Farrior, Lloyd & Ham wrapped up in one. Heck, he's probably got the ghost of Reggie White infused into his veins. On top of that, it's possible he can cover a rabbit in an open field. With his eyes closed, using the Force to guide him.

:lol: Funny stuff. I'm still chuckling from magnificant brillance in his pants. I am certainly stealing some of your material.

Chadman
03-01-2012, 11:10 AM
By the way- did you realise Levon Kirkland was an OLB at Clemson that moved inside after the Steelers drafted him?

Ohhh scnap!

:lol:

Oh snap? Really? :lol:

Chadman says he would draft FARRIOR over Kirk and he come up with this weak logic? What position did he pjay in college? Really Shawn?

Ohhh my.....SNAP BACK....DONT COME AT ME WITH SMACK...I WILL ALWAYS SET YOU BACK...WITH LOGIC AND FACT. :lol:

Captain- you can bag Chadman as much as you like, but at least get your reasons for bagging him right.

Never used Kirkland's college position as a reason for selecting Farrior. Hence the reason Chadman posted it seperately. It was merely pointing out the college OLB's can convert successfully to ILB which was semi-argued as a stupid move earlier on.

The reason's Chadman would have picked Farrior over Kirkland coming out of college were explained in the post previous to this one.

steelz09
03-01-2012, 11:48 AM
Ok, so who is this "agile" ILB (Brown, or whoever else) going to cover.. ?

Gronkowski - That's not happening

Jimmy Graham - That's not happening

Finley - That's not happening

Vernon Davis - That's not happening either...

Let's try the same game with running backs.

McFadden - That's not happening

Reggie Bush - That's not happening

Jamaal Charles - That's not happening

Ray Rice - That's not happening

Jones-Drew - That's not happening

Darren Sproles - That's not happening

So again, who is this "agile" LB that you want going to cover? Timmons can't consistently cover anyone on this list, neither can Patrick Willis, Hightower or any ILB in this entire draft. So for the Hightower haters out there, spare me the "he's not agile" enough talk. It's humorous. :) There isn't a ILB in the league currently or a ILB in this draft that can consistently cover any of these TEs/RBs and these are the types we're talking about. Willis is probably the closest one and there isn't a Willis in this draft and even if there was one, we're not a top-10 pick so we can keep dreaming.

I don't see why not. Lbrs who run 4.4 or better don't come around very often. Why can't Brown cover most of these guys?

The list makes no sense at all...

It's not about drafting a guy who can blanket the best players in the league that we usually play once every 2 years...

The draft is about finding the best player who can succeed in "our scheme"

Hightower reminds me of Kendrell Bell... which is good and bad. He blitzes and looks quick to the QB but running from sideline to sideline he looks really slow...

Actually, this list makes perfect sense. People are knocking the guy because he wouldn't be able to cover TE's like Gronkowski or RB's that are receiving threats. Guess what, those "threats" are some of the best in the game. This list outlines a few of those receiving threats at both positions. So, my question is.. which players in the league currently at the LB position can cover these guys one on one? Yup, no one. The answer applies to the LBs in this year's draft class. So, knocking Hightower because he's not "agile" enough to cover these type of TE and/or RBs doesn't make sense.

Let's be realistic... it's like saying a CB isn't strong enough to take on Guards at the point of attack.. huh? That sounds crazy. Just about as crazy as asking your ILB to cover Darren Sproles. If you want to cover those type of guys, you put a corner or safety on him. Not your ILB.... it'll be a mismatch every time and it's unrealistic for a ILB.

Oviedo
03-01-2012, 11:53 AM
Ok, so who is this "agile" ILB (Brown, or whoever else) going to cover.. ?

Gronkowski - That's not happening

Jimmy Graham - That's not happening

Finley - That's not happening

Vernon Davis - That's not happening either...

Let's try the same game with running backs.

McFadden - That's not happening

Reggie Bush - That's not happening

Jamaal Charles - That's not happening

Ray Rice - That's not happening

Jones-Drew - That's not happening

Darren Sproles - That's not happening

So again, who is this "agile" LB that you want going to cover? Timmons can't consistently cover anyone on this list, neither can Patrick Willis, Hightower or any ILB in this entire draft. So for the Hightower haters out there, spare me the "he's not agile" enough talk. It's humorous. :) There isn't a ILB in the league currently or a ILB in this draft that can consistently cover any of these TEs/RBs and these are the types we're talking about. Willis is probably the closest one and there isn't a Willis in this draft and even if there was one, we're not a top-10 pick so we can keep dreaming.

I don't see why not. Lbrs who run 4.4 or better don't come around very often. Why can't Brown cover most of these guys?

The list makes no sense at all...

It's not about drafting a guy who can blanket the best players in the league that we usually play once every 2 years...

The draft is about finding the best player who can succeed in "our scheme"

Hightower reminds me of Kendrell Bell... which is good and bad. He blitzes and looks quick to the QB but running from sideline to sideline he looks really slow...

Actually, this list makes perfect sense. People are knocking the guy because he wouldn't be able to cover TE's like Gronkowski or RB's that are receiving threats. Guess what, those "threats" are some of the best in the game. This list outlines a few of those receiving threats at both positions. So, my question is.. which players in the league currently at the LB position can cover these guys one on one? Yup, no one. The answer applies to the LBs in this year's draft class. So, knocking Hightower because he's not "agile" enough to cover these type of TE and/or RBs doesn't make sense.

Let's be realistic... it's like saying a CB isn't strong enough to take on Guards at the point of attack.. huh? That sounds crazy. Just about as crazy as asking your ILB to cover Darren Sproles. If you want to cover those type of guys, you put a corner or safety on him. Not your ILB.... it'll be a mismatch every time and it's unrealistic for a ILB.


I covering this new breed of Tight Ends is your metric then you will exclude every LB in the draft and should decide to select either Mark Barron or the Harrison kid from ND as Safeties. They are the only two Safeties in this draft who have the size and speed to match up with these big, fast TEs.

feltdizz
03-01-2012, 11:54 AM
It's not about drafting a guy who can blanket the best players in the league that we usually play once every 2 years...

The draft is about finding the best player who can succeed in "our scheme"

Hightower reminds me of Kendrell Bell... which is good and bad. He blitzes and looks quick to the QB but running from sideline to sideline he looks really slow...

This is a contradiction. Hightower excelled in the same scheme at Alabama. He didnt do well on occasion. He was a stand out. He played at a first round level. To suggest he played only well on certain types of plays is ridiculous and to compare him to Kendrell Bell is not knowing much about the player.

I have shown clips where he has run down RB's like Will Demps and Chris Rainey from the middle of the field. He is far from slow laterally.

Never said I knew everything about the player...

Still not impressed with what I've seen from him laterally...

I love what I've seen from him blitzing and coming off the edge but his movement sideline to sideline isn't his best work IMO.

Chadman
03-01-2012, 11:57 AM
Let's be realistic... it's like saying a CB isn't strong enough to take on Guards at the point of attack.. huh? That sounds crazy. Just about as crazy as asking your ILB to cover Darren Sproles. If you want to cover those type of guys, you put a corner or safety on him. Not your ILB.... it'll be a mismatch every time and it's unrealistic for a ILB.

Yes & no....an ILB is asked to drop into coverage REGULARLY, while a CB is asked to take on OG's RARELY.

Coverage ability for an ILB has certainly got to be part of their reportoie.

Chadman's argument isn't that Hightower CAN'T cover, just that he can't cover as well as some other options in this draft. Some obviously don't feel this aspect of his game is as important as others.

Oviedo
03-01-2012, 12:06 PM
Let's be realistic... it's like saying a CB isn't strong enough to take on Guards at the point of attack.. huh? That sounds crazy. Just about as crazy as asking your ILB to cover Darren Sproles. If you want to cover those type of guys, you put a corner or safety on him. Not your ILB.... it'll be a mismatch every time and it's unrealistic for a ILB.

Yes & no....an ILB is asked to drop into coverage REGULARLY, while a CB is asked to take on OG's RARELY.

Coverage ability for an ILB has certainly got to be part of their reportoie.

Chadman's argument isn't that Hightower CAN'T cover, just that he can't cover as well as some other options in this draft. Some obviously don't feel this aspect of his game is as important as others.


I wouldn't say that Hightower can't cover but it is not his strongest attribute. I actually watched alot of 'Bama games this year and he did OK in coverage.

However, your argument is why on other threads I suggest that we draft Courtney Upshaw, Hightower's 'Bama team mate, and move him to ILB because of his greater athleticism and how he better fits the Tomlin "run and hit" profile.

In the games I watched, Upshaw just looked like he was playing at a different speed than everyone else in the games.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-01-2012, 12:08 PM
Wow...10 pages...I missed alot yesterday. Ok...Let me make my contribution to this battle of opinions.

Summary comments because post is getting long.

If Hightower=Kirkland would I draft him at #24...Yes.

Projecting Hightower as Kirkland would be the same as projecting Poe as Ngata so if I have Kirkland & Ngata at #24...I'm taking Ngata.

A DL or OL of higher regard will trumpt ILB anyday of the week. The 3-4 defense starts on the nose so he is far more important than an ILB.

Kirkland (2nd Round), K Bell (2nd round), Nikerson (5th round), Chad Brown (2nd), Earl Holmes (4th round) We have found great ILBs outside of first round so I'm confident they could do it again. Timmons was drafted in the 1st because they felt he was that "special" LB who could give you that added dimension in coverage because of his athletic ability...Which he is.

The ILB has to cover the TEs & RBs...There isn't anyway around it. Cover doesn't mean shut the guy out with zero catches. Cover just means be in position to make a play whether it be knock the ball away or don't give up any yac and make the tackle. Cover will be man or if they come into their zone. They have to be athletic enough to turn their hips and run and trail the TE down the seam so the QB can't put it in under the S. What little Hightower did at the combine, his 10 yard wasn't that good and his hips looked stiff in position drills. Those drills mean alot to the decision makers.

The Gronkowski, Hernanadez, & Graham argument doesn't mean anything. Yes...They Steelers LBs have to be able to cover them. They will see them in base. Personell packages will dictate it. Our division is what you draft for and the Ravens are a perfect example of what our ILBs need to do. They can run the ball very well and the defense is in base with Troy even in the box to stop the run. They go PA...Who's covering the TE and the RBs? Was it the Ravens prolific WR group that moved the chains for them? If we want to keep up in our division our ILBs better be able to attack the LOS and react to the PA and CHANGE DIRECTION and get to their zone or find their TE or RB & man up. I seem to remember everyone cursing Farrior because he couldn't stay with Rice or Dickson in coverage. Dickson & Pitta combined for 94 catches last year and Rice had 76 himself. Who is covering those guys in base when the Steelers play? They better be dam sure Hightower can run with NFL TEs & RBs and he hasn't shown that yet.

If you don't like the Ravens example even look at the Pats. The Steelers aren't going to go nickel when the Pats come out in 22 personnel. They have to play the down & distance and stay in base. Good coaching and a great QB like Brady will see that and audible to the pass if we stay in base and audible to run if we walk out nickel. Your rule is to play the run to pass so you stay in base and your LBs have to cover. Plain & Simple.

Some of you forget that Timmons even covers the slot man to man. Some of you forget our ILB have to cover WRs too in their zone blitz drop. It isn't just something the Steelers ask...It is league wide. So to say an ILB who can't cover a TE & RB still has 1st round value isn't true because the 1st round ILB are those special types. McClain was thought to be that and went very high. He isn't the guy they thought he was. He still is a very good football player. A down hill run stopper. I'm sure many of you watched teh Chargers - Raiders game at the end of the year. If you watched McClain's name was talked about alot. He had a tough time keeping up with Gates and he even had to cover Jackson on the seam route he scored on. ILBs draw these assignments in a base defense. The OC & QB exploit the mismatch. We should all know...They have been doing it to us for the last two years with Farrior.

That all being said...Hightower may or may not be that guy. I haven't seen enough to say he is. He had an opportunity to shut people up at the combine but he didn't. He didn't do anything at the combine to help himself in this area. He put up a solid 40 but his 10 yard split was in there with DL. His hips looked stiff in position drills and he didn't do any timed agility events. You put the tape on you see a kid with good instincts and someone who gets off blocks pretty well. He has some pash rush ability from the inside and out. Decent motor but he takes his share of plays off. That isn't something to worry about though. Maturity & a paycheck tend to cure that if conditioning is ruled out. I have seen some flaws in his game bt as long as he is coachable you should be able to work them out. Playing in a 3-4 helps but it by no means tabs him as an immediate starter at the next level. His learning curve isn't shortened any learning a DL defense. The only concern I have is his ability in coverage. And DD will say he has watched every snap of him but I watched alot of tape and saw several games this year on TV. I watched him knowing ILB was on the Steelers wish list like many others. He wasn't asked alot to lock up man to man. He has more zone drops. That doesn't mean he can't but it doen't mean he could just because you like him. Same can be said for Poe on his faults but if Poe played for Alabama...He wouldn't be in our conversations after his combine because he would have been rated alot higher.

So what it all comes down to in my book is who each player is. That is out of our hands and the decision makers will know. If you are telling me right now that both Hightower & Poe will reach their potential...I would pick Poe every time. The value of a dominating NT in a 3-4 defense far exceeds what an ILB can give you. The ILB production feeds of the NT not the other way around. He is the foundation in the system not the plumbing. Like I said, the people who matter will know. They good thing for us the answer will come in Arpil. I hope it comes down to Hightower & Poe on the board when we pick so it will be a non issue to Who they valued more in this system. Remember...Colbert's words are always "Finding a kid who fits our system." So if it came down to it...The answer will be known. We will also see how the rest of the league values them too by where the decide to draft them. So opinion aside...The people who matter will make it know. The don't pay dozen's of scouts and run a multi million dollar business to make up their boards come draft day on opinions and websites. So they will answer the questions for us.

steelz09
03-01-2012, 12:34 PM
Let's be realistic... it's like saying a CB isn't strong enough to take on Guards at the point of attack.. huh? That sounds crazy. Just about as crazy as asking your ILB to cover Darren Sproles. If you want to cover those type of guys, you put a corner or safety on him. Not your ILB.... it'll be a mismatch every time and it's unrealistic for a ILB.

Yes & no....an ILB is asked to drop into coverage REGULARLY, while a CB is asked to take on OG's RARELY.

Coverage ability for an ILB has certainly got to be part of their reportoie.

Chadman's argument isn't that Hightower CAN'T cover, just that he can't cover as well as some other options in this draft. Some obviously don't feel this aspect of his game is as important as others.

Ok, so let's do this merry-go-round Chadman :) Who do you think CAN be agile enough to cover the people I listed? I'm still waiting on that. Because I'll be honest, I haven't seen a single ILB in the league today that can cover those guys in the open field.

If you have your ILB covering those players in the open field, your in serious ****. A zone is one thing... but if you have BOTH your ILB chasing these guys around the field, your in the wrong defensive package w/ the wrong personnel on the field or matched up wrong. It's the OC's responsibility to exploit the exact matchups your trying to create. It's the DC's responsibility to not allow those matchups to occurr. I wouldn't hire you as my DC :)

Chadman
03-01-2012, 12:56 PM
Ok, so let's do this merry-go-round Chadman Who do you think CAN be agile enough to cover the people I listed? I'm still waiting on that.

Already answered that- chances are, none.

Consistantly.

Again, the point Chadman makes isn't that Hightower can't cover- just that there are better ILB options as far as pass covering go.

In Chadman's opinion, Hightower would be more regularly exposed in coverage than quite a few of the other ILB options in this draft.

But it's only an opinion.

Could be wrong- it has happened once before. Or was it twice?

Here's a question- if Larry Foote is retained & Farrior released, do the Steelers need to draft an ILB that is 'ready to go' on Day 1, or can they sit back & get a guy they feel fills the roll of back-up ILB & ST player in a later round? A guy they can develop within a couple of years to take over?

You know- a guy like Nigel Bradham. :D


Actually- do you guys remember Mike Tomlin being at Texas' Pro Day last year & yacking it up with Sam Acho?

From memory the report was he was impressed with acho and his level of maturity/character.

His little brother is in this draft...just happens he could fill that developmental ILB role.... Big Program, Big Production...

Oviedo
03-01-2012, 01:00 PM
Wow...10 pages...I missed alot yesterday. Ok...Let me make my contribution to this battle of opinions.

Summary comments because post is getting long.

If Hightower=Kirkland would I draft him at #24...Yes.

Projecting Hightower as Kirkland would be the same as projecting Poe as Ngata so if I have Kirkland & Ngata at #24...I'm taking Ngata.

A DL or OL of higher regard will trumpt ILB anyday of the week. The 3-4 defense starts on the nose so he is far more important than an ILB.

Kirkland (2nd Round), K Bell (2nd round), Nikerson (5th round), Chad Brown (2nd), Earl Holmes (4th round) We have found great ILBs outside of first round so I'm confident they could do it again. Timmons was drafted in the 1st because they felt he was that "special" LB who could give you that added dimension in coverage because of his athletic ability...Which he is.

The ILB has to cover the TEs & RBs...There isn't anyway around it. Cover doesn't mean shut the guy out with zero catches. Cover just means be in position to make a play whether it be knock the ball away or don't give up any yac and make the tackle. Cover will be man or if they come into their zone. They have to be athletic enough to turn their hips and run and trail the TE down the seam so the QB can't put it in under the S. What little Hightower did at the combine, his 10 yard wasn't that good and his hips looked stiff in position drills. Those drills mean alot to the decision makers.

The Gronkowski, Hernanadez, & Graham argument doesn't mean anything. Yes...They Steelers LBs have to be able to cover them. They will see them in base. Personell packages will dictate it. Our division is what you draft for and the Ravens are a perfect example of what our ILBs need to do. They can run the ball very well and the defense is in base with Troy even in the box to stop the run. They go PA...Who's covering the TE and the RBs? Was it the Ravens prolific WR group that moved the chains for them? If we want to keep up in our division our ILBs better be able to attack the LOS and react to the PA and CHANGE DIRECTION and get to their zone or find their TE or RB & man up. I seem to remember everyone cursing Farrior because he couldn't stay with Rice or Dickson in coverage. Dickson & Pitta combined for 94 catches last year and Rice had 76 himself. Who is covering those guys in base when the Steelers play? They better be dam sure Hightower can run with NFL TEs & RBs and he hasn't shown that yet.

If you don't like the Ravens example even look at the Pats. The Steelers aren't going to go nickel when the Pats come out in 22 personnel. They have to play the down & distance and stay in base. Good coaching and a great QB like Brady will see that and audible to the pass if we stay in base and audible to run if we walk out nickel. Your rule is to play the run to pass so you stay in base and your LBs have to cover. Plain & Simple.

Some of you forget that Timmons even covers the slot man to man. Some of you forget our ILB have to cover WRs too in their zone blitz drop. It isn't just something the Steelers ask...It is league wide. So to say an ILB who can't cover a TE & RB still has 1st round value isn't true because the 1st round ILB are those special types. McClain was thought to be that and went very high. He isn't the guy they thought he was. He still is a very good football player. A down hill run stopper. I'm sure many of you watched teh Chargers - Raiders game at the end of the year. If you watched McClain's name was talked about alot. He had a tough time keeping up with Gates and he even had to cover Jackson on the seam route he scored on. ILBs draw these assignments in a base defense. The OC & QB exploit the mismatch. We should all know...They have been doing it to us for the last two years with Farrior.

That all being said...Hightower may or may not be that guy. I haven't seen enough to say he is. He had an opportunity to shut people up at the combine but he didn't. He didn't do anything at the combine to help himself in this area. He put up a solid 40 but his 10 yard split was in there with DL. His hips looked stiff in position drills and he didn't do any timed agility events. You put the tape on you see a kid with good instincts and someone who gets off blocks pretty well. He has some pash rush ability from the inside and out. Decent motor but he takes his share of plays off. That isn't something to worry about though. Maturity & a paycheck tend to cure that if conditioning is ruled out. I have seen some flaws in his game bt as long as he is coachable you should be able to work them out. Playing in a 3-4 helps but it by no means tabs him as an immediate starter at the next level. His learning curve isn't shortened any learning a DL defense. The only concern I have is his ability in coverage. And DD will say he has watched every snap of him but I watched alot of tape and saw several games this year on TV. I watched him knowing ILB was on the Steelers wish list like many others. He wasn't asked alot to lock up man to man. He has more zone drops. That doesn't mean he can't but it doen't mean he could just because you like him. Same can be said for Poe on his faults but if Poe played for Alabama...He wouldn't be in our conversations after his combine because he would have been rated alot higher.

So what it all comes down to in my book is who each player is. That is out of our hands and the decision makers will know. If you are telling me right now that both Hightower & Poe will reach their potential...I would pick Poe every time. The value of a dominating NT in a 3-4 defense far exceeds what an ILB can give you. The ILB production feeds of the NT not the other way around. He is the foundation in the system not the plumbing. Like I said, the people who matter will know. They good thing for us the answer will come in Arpil. I hope it comes down to Hightower & Poe on the board when we pick so it will be a non issue to Who they valued more in this system. Remember...Colbert's words are always "Finding a kid who fits our system." So if it came down to it...The answer will be known. We will also see how the rest of the league values them too by where the decide to draft them. So opinion aside...The people who matter will make it know. The don't pay dozen's of scouts and run a multi million dollar business to make up their boards come draft day on opinions and websites. So they will answer the questions for us.


Great discussion and some good points, but I will take exception to the emphasis you put on the NT. I think you are correct if you are running a stop the run first defense. My issue is that we should be running a stop the pass first defense. Very few teams in this league can beat us with their running game with or without Hampton at his best. This is rapidly becoming a pass on first down and second down league. So essentially running the 3-4 the way Lebeau likes to is suboptimizing for stopping the attack that will less likely beat you.

IMO you need players who can either put the QB on his butt or cover a potential receiver close enough to force the QB to make a pefect throw. Having a DL where we are asked to control the opponents blockers versus attack their backfield is IMO an anacronysm for the direction the league is going.

Therefore I think burning a Rd 1 pick on a player like Poe who is going to asked to tie up two blockers versus going after the QB is a lesser pick than someone who can get after the QB or cover receivers. That is why I'm not looking at NT until about Rd 3 if I'm the Steelers.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-01-2012, 01:20 PM
Great discussion and some good points, but I will take exception to the emphasis you put on the NT. I think you are correct if you are running a stop the run first defense. My issue is that we should be running a stop the pass first defense. Very few teams in this league can beat us with their running game with or without Hampton at his best. This is rapidly becoming a pass on first down and second down league. So essentially running the 3-4 the way Lebeau likes to is suboptimizing for stopping the attack that will less likely beat you.

IMO you need players who can either put the QB on his butt or cover a potential receiver close enough to force the QB to make a pefect throw. Having a DL where we are asked to control the opponents blockers versus attack their backfield is IMO an anacronysm for the direction the league is going.

Therefore I think burning a Rd 1 pick on a player like Poe who is going to asked to tie up two blockers versus going after the QB is a lesser pick than someone who can get after the QB or cover receivers. That is why I'm not looking at NT until about Rd 3 if I'm the Steelers.

Well in your line of thinking why would you want Hightower? I mean you said stop the pass first and Highower is a down hill ILB who excels bewteen the tackles. You should be wanting a coverage ILB? You just said you like steak but you don't eat meat.

Any age..And offense...In a 3-4 system the LBs make the plays. Your front 3 are assignment players who make sure the LBs can do that. The production & success comes off of the front. The NT is responsible for 2 gaps...2 ILBs to keep clean. Most important part of the 3-4 defense. Now if you want to say "pass friendly" league then you get a NT who could stay on the field or 3rd down or flick the switch if the QB drops...That's your Ngata. If Poe can be like that....That makes him extremely valuable.

The Steelers were more vulnerable against the run when they needed stops. You know that...If you watched the games it has become very noticeable. That was the combination of Hampton & Farrior tailing off.

Just like Colbert said..."Guys who fit the Steelers system." So regardless of what anyone on here wants...The 3-4 is the system and the NT is the cog.

I won't argue getting after the QB because that is what the OLBs job is in the 3-4 system. The Steelers have those players. If you want that in the 1st...Hightower isn't the guy. His team mate Upshaw is the explosive pass rusher.

No you don't like Poe and I get that. I have seen you post your wish list in several topics with "Anyone not named Poe." That is your right. You are the guy who want's to take a player who played OLB in a 3-4 and compiled 52 TT, 18 TFL, and 9.5 sacks and move him to ILB...Just because. :P

Oviedo
03-01-2012, 01:52 PM
Great discussion and some good points, but I will take exception to the emphasis you put on the NT. I think you are correct if you are running a stop the run first defense. My issue is that we should be running a stop the pass first defense. Very few teams in this league can beat us with their running game with or without Hampton at his best. This is rapidly becoming a pass on first down and second down league. So essentially running the 3-4 the way Lebeau likes to is suboptimizing for stopping the attack that will less likely beat you.

IMO you need players who can either put the QB on his butt or cover a potential receiver close enough to force the QB to make a pefect throw. Having a DL where we are asked to control the opponents blockers versus attack their backfield is IMO an anacronysm for the direction the league is going.

Therefore I think burning a Rd 1 pick on a player like Poe who is going to asked to tie up two blockers versus going after the QB is a lesser pick than someone who can get after the QB or cover receivers. That is why I'm not looking at NT until about Rd 3 if I'm the Steelers.

Well in your line of thinking why would you want Hightower? I mean you said stop the pass first and Highower is a down hill ILB who excels bewteen the tackles. You should be wanting a coverage ILB? You just said you like steak but you don't eat meat.

Any age..And offense...In a 3-4 system the LBs make the plays. Your front 3 are assignment players who make sure the LBs can do that. The production & success comes off of the front. The NT is responsible for 2 gaps...2 ILBs to keep clean. Most important part of the 3-4 defense. Now if you want to say "pass friendly" league then you get a NT who could stay on the field or 3rd down or flick the switch if the QB drops...That's your Ngata. If Poe can be like that....That makes him extremely valuable.

The Steelers were more vulnerable against the run when they needed stops. You know that...If you watched the games it has become very noticeable. That was the combination of Hampton & Farrior tailing off.

Just like Colbert said..."Guys who fit the Steelers system." So regardless of what anyone on here wants...The 3-4 is the system and the NT is the cog.

I won't argue getting after the QB because that is what the OLBs job is in the 3-4 system. The Steelers have those players. If you want that in the 1st...Hightower isn't the guy. His team mate Upshaw is the explosive pass rusher.

No you don't like Poe and I get that. I have seen you post your wish list in several topics with "Anyone not named Poe." That is your right. You are the guy who want's to take a player who played OLB in a 3-4 and compiled 52 TT, 18 TFL, and 9.5 sacks and move him to ILB...Just because. :P


I would take Upshaw before Hightower but would have no problem with Hightower and would hope that LeBeau rediscovered what an inside blitz is among his hundreds of pages of overly complicated plays. :wink: I would also not underestimate Hightowers ability to cover. I saw him do it a lot at 'Bama and would say he is at least equal to Woodley who IMO is fair at best.

Understand the philosophy of the rush coming from the OLBs, my issue has been for the past couple of year that it is too predictable and all the opponents do is spread us out to force those OLB to drop and therefore no rush because our DL is taught first to contain versus attack. I just don't see another DL to occupy blockers is a good Round 1 investment after we have done that two out of the past three years.

Now if you were looking at Poe being the jumbo DT in a future 4-3 then we can talk.

Dee Dub
03-01-2012, 02:05 PM
Every year DD you get this love conection with a player & any critisism of the player ends up being a personal affront to you.

We get it mate- you love him. To you, he's Kirkland, Farrior, Lloyd & Ham wrapped up in one. Heck, he's probably got the ghost of Reggie White infused into his veins. On top of that, it's possible he can cover a rabbit in an open field. With his eyes closed, using the Force to guide him.

Remember Taylor Mays & how well he worked out?

You should, of all of us in here, right? He held this mantle so short a time ago.

Oh- you remember how fast & explosive he was, don't you? But how he got shown up on the field because he, well, couldn't move laterally? He wasn't agile?

Sounding familiar at all?

You might be right. Hightower might turn out to be awesome. But no amount of man-love between the 2 of you is about to convince Chadman that his movement skills, laterally, his agility, and his ability to cover against the pass are any more than "ok".

And when you step up from COLLEGE football to the NFL- those little things kinda get shown up.

You are correct Chadman, I have missed on a few. I am not perfect and I dont know everything. But I think I have hit on a lot of prospects over the years. Way more right than wrong.

In all your back forth regarding this topic you have obviously not really paid attention to what I have said in regards to Hightower. I have from the beginning pointed out his flaws.

But if you really feel the need to take shots at me through all this and not appreciate the fact that I have treated you with respect then not sure what I can say to that.

College football, professional prospects, and how it relates to the Steelers is a passion of mine. If you think this is some type of man-love then so be it. I have been painted worse.

Dee Dub
03-01-2012, 02:14 PM
I wouldn't say that Hightower can't cover but it is not his strongest attribute. I actually watched alot of 'Bama games this year and he did OK in coverage.....

This is interesting. Those that have actually seen Hightower play in more than a handful of games or youtube clips say the same thing about his coverage ability. And it is the same that I have said all along. He isnt great at it, but he can do it. In fact I've seen him actually be descent at it at times as well. I also believe, like I have said all along, in time he could be above average at it. Just like Kirkland and how he progressed at it.

steelz09
03-01-2012, 02:15 PM
Ok, so let's do this merry-go-round Chadman Who do you think CAN be agile enough to cover the people I listed? I'm still waiting on that.

Already answered that- chances are, none.

Consistantly.

Again, the point Chadman makes isn't that Hightower can't cover- just that there are better ILB options as far as pass covering go.

In Chadman's opinion, Hightower would be more regularly exposed in coverage than quite a few of the other ILB options in this draft.

But it's only an opinion.

Could be wrong- it has happened once before. Or was it twice?

Here's a question- if Larry Foote is retained & Farrior released, do the Steelers need to draft an ILB that is 'ready to go' on Day 1, or can they sit back & get a guy they feel fills the roll of back-up ILB & ST player in a later round? A guy they can develop within a couple of years to take over?

You know- a guy like Nigel Bradham. :D


Actually- do you guys remember Mike Tomlin being at Texas' Pro Day last year & yacking it up with Sam Acho?

From memory the report was he was impressed with acho and his level of maturity/character.

His little brother is in this draft...just happens he could fill that developmental ILB role.... Big Program, Big Production...

To answer the question:
If Larry Foote is retained & Farrior released, do the Steelers need to draft an ILB that is 'ready to go' on Day 1, or can they sit back & get a guy they feel fills the roll of back-up ILB & ST player in a later round? A guy they can develop within a couple of years to take over?"

No - I don't think they'll draft a guy in the 1st round. For that reason, I don't think the Steelers are going to draft Hightower. They have been so good historically at developing linebackers that I have a feeling they already have a plan for ILB and that player may already be on the roster (who knows?).

With that being said, I wouldn't be upset w/ the Hightower selection. I think he'd be a good fit and is a good player.

I think Rooney may have a stronger say in this pick. You know... based on his comments bout the offense and protecting Big Ben. We really, really, really, really, really (did I say really?) need a solid guard. I wouldn't be upset w/ the DeCastro, or Glenn pick. It's long overdue.

We also need the centerpiece of our defense for the future. That centerpeice is obviously the Nose Tackle. NT is an extremely difficult position to find and fill effectively. Poe is probably the riskiest pick but I'd be ok with that too.

Dee Dub
03-01-2012, 02:41 PM
To answer the question:
If Larry Foote is retained & Farrior released, do the Steelers need to draft an ILB that is 'ready to go' on Day 1, or can they sit back & get a guy they feel fills the roll of back-up ILB & ST player in a later round? A guy they can develop within a couple of years to take over?"

No - I don't think they'll draft a guy in the 1st round. For that reason, I don't think the Steelers are going to draft Hightower. They have been so good historically at developing linebackers that I have a feeling they already have a plan for ILB and that player may already be on the roster (who knows?).

jhansle1, you have good insights. Solid poster.

Now..if it is this guy for the player currently on the roster who the Steelers may have a plan for....

WEAKNESSES
Only possesses average strength at the point of attack and doesn’t play well in a phone booth. Needs to expand his pass rush package. Won’t be able to get to the quarterback on quickness alone at the next level. Can struggle diagnosing play action at times and get caught out of position.


Combine 40 Time: 4.63.
Benchx225: 23. Vertical: 30.5.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/ste ... ?id=496955 (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/stevenson-sylvester?id=496955)

...knowing that he is going into year 3 and they still dont have a clue whether he is the guy, should let us all know a lot.

And this is why I am so high on Hightower.

He can play ILB in a 3-4 zone blitz.
Compliments what Timmons brings
Leadership ability
Called the defensive signals in Saban's 3-4 zone blitz
Great motor
Great work ethic
Big play ability
Versatility--can be used many ways. Played ILB, OLB, and DE
Powerful tackler
Disciplined. knows his assignments and sticks to them.
Heady and instinctive
Dedicated to film work

Dee Dub
03-01-2012, 03:06 PM
For what it's worth here are the combine numbers for Rolando McClain. Another 'Bama, ILB who played in a 3-4 zone blitz.

4.68 40 (same as Hightower)
24 reps at 225.
did not participate in any other drills.

This past year for the Raiders?

99 tackles, 5 sacks, 13 PD's (he had the same knocks about his coverage ability)

...and he started for the Raiders in his rookie year (2010).

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-01-2012, 03:35 PM
For what it's worth here are the combine numbers for Rolando McClain. Another 'Bama, ILB who played in a 3-4 zone blitz.

4.68 40 (same as Hightower)
24 reps at 225.
did not participate in any other drills.

This past year for the Raiders?

99 tackles, 5 sacks, 13 PD's (he had the same knocks about his coverage ability)

...and he started for the Raiders in his rookie year (2010).

I hope Hightower isn't McClain. Mcclain never lived up to his hype. I saw the Chargers game at the end of the year and the GB game and he was really struggling in pass coverage. I think I mentioned this in another topic where he was abused by Gates and actually had coverage of Jackson down the seam on his TD. I think Hightower is much better against the run but I also thought McClain looked better in college in coverage than he has shown in the NFL. Two bad games..Maybe. I don't watch Raider ball but he wasn't very good when I saw him.

Dee Dub
03-01-2012, 03:47 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":3as70991]For what it's worth here are the combine numbers for Rolando McClain. Another 'Bama, ILB who played in a 3-4 zone blitz.

4.68 40 (same as Hightower)
24 reps at 225.
did not participate in any other drills.

This past year for the Raiders?

99 tackles, 5 sacks, 13 PD's (he had the same knocks about his coverage ability)

...and he started for the Raiders in his rookie year (2010).

I hope Hightower isn't McClain. Mcclain never lived up to his hype. I saw the Chargers game at the end of the year and the GB game and he was really struggling in pass coverage. I think I mentioned this in another topic where he was abused by Gates and actually had coverage of Jackson down the seam on his TD. I think Hightower is much better against the run but I also thought McClain looked better in college in coverage than he has shown in the NFL. Two bad games..Maybe. I don't watch Raider ball but he wasn't very good when I saw him.[/quote:3as70991]

Say what you want, those numbers McClain has put up tell a different story. That is pretty solid for a second year player. 13 PD's? Think about it. That is as many as the starting corners for the Pittsburgh Steelers had.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-01-2012, 04:08 PM
[quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":3e38bwe0][quote="Dee Dub":3e38bwe0]For what it's worth here are the combine numbers for Rolando McClain. Another 'Bama, ILB who played in a 3-4 zone blitz.

4.68 40 (same as Hightower)
24 reps at 225.
did not participate in any other drills.

This past year for the Raiders?

99 tackles, 5 sacks, 13 PD's (he had the same knocks about his coverage ability)

...and he started for the Raiders in his rookie year (2010).

I hope Hightower isn't McClain. Mcclain never lived up to his hype. I saw the Chargers game at the end of the year and the GB game and he was really struggling in pass coverage. I think I mentioned this in another topic where he was abused by Gates and actually had coverage of Jackson down the seam on his TD. I think Hightower is much better against the run but I also thought McClain looked better in college in coverage than he has shown in the NFL. Two bad games..Maybe. I don't watch Raider ball but he wasn't very good when I saw him.[/quote:3e38bwe0]

Say what you want, those numbers McClain has put up tell a different story. That is pretty solid for a second year player. 13 PD's? Think about it. That is as many as the starting corners for the Pittsburgh Steelers had.[/quote:3e38bwe0]

I will say it. Two games I watched their Ss were making the tackles while he was trying to get off blocks. He wasn't very good in coverage. Just those two games? Couldn't tell you if that was the case. Did not like his effort at all and laughed that the Raiders spent such a high pick on him based on his play. I would take Sean Lee over him. He had 105 tackles with 7 Pd & 4 Ints. He has a nose for the ball and is a high effort guy. Best word to describe McClain based upon what I have seen...Sluggish. Now...I don't see that in Hightower. I hope if the Steelers draft him he brings water from Bama.

Dee Dub
03-01-2012, 04:20 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":3q2a9fp2][quote="JUST-PLAIN-NASTY":3q2a9fp2][quote="Dee Dub":3q2a9fp2]For what it's worth here are the combine numbers for Rolando McClain. Another 'Bama, ILB who played in a 3-4 zone blitz.

4.68 40 (same as Hightower)
24 reps at 225.
did not participate in any other drills.

This past year for the Raiders?

99 tackles, 5 sacks, 13 PD's (he had the same knocks about his coverage ability)

...and he started for the Raiders in his rookie year (2010).

I hope Hightower isn't McClain. Mcclain never lived up to his hype. I saw the Chargers game at the end of the year and the GB game and he was really struggling in pass coverage. I think I mentioned this in another topic where he was abused by Gates and actually had coverage of Jackson down the seam on his TD. I think Hightower is much better against the run but I also thought McClain looked better in college in coverage than he has shown in the NFL. Two bad games..Maybe. I don't watch Raider ball but he wasn't very good when I saw him.[/quote:3q2a9fp2]

Say what you want, those numbers McClain has put up tell a different story. That is pretty solid for a second year player. 13 PD's? Think about it. That is as many as the starting corners for the Pittsburgh Steelers had.[/quote:3q2a9fp2]

I will say it. Two games I watched their Ss were making the tackles while he was trying to get off blocks. He wasn't very good in coverage. Just those two games? Couldn't tell you if that was the case. Did not like his effort at all and laughed that the Raiders spent such a high pick on him based on his play. I would take Sean Lee over him. He had 105 tackles with 7 Pd & 4 Ints. He has a nose for the ball and is a high effort guy. Best word to describe McClain based upon what I have seen...Sluggish. Now...I don't see that in Hightower. I hope if the Steelers draft him he brings water from Bama.[/quote:3q2a9fp2]

I hear what you are saying. Not to make an excuse but McClain does suffer from Crohn's disease. I can see how that could cause him to have bad days on occasion.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
03-01-2012, 04:36 PM
I hear what you are saying. Not to make an excuse but McClain does suffer from Crohn's disease. I can see how that could cause him to have bad days on occasion.

Well if that is the case...He gets a pass in my book. I acould salute the effort if he tried to play through it on those days.

Chadman
03-01-2012, 09:38 PM
But if you really feel the need to take shots at me through all this and not appreciate the fact that I have treated you with respect then not sure what I can say to that.

College football, professional prospects, and how it relates to the Steelers is a passion of mine. If you think this is some type of man-love then so be it. I have been painted worse.

Come on DD- that's taking it a bit personal. Chadman was hardly taking shots at you- just poking a bit of fun at your iron-clad steadfastness in your belief on Hightower.

Nothing personal intended, and if you re-read, pretty sure you'll see that.

No offense intended if it was taken that way however.

Chadman
03-01-2012, 09:43 PM
To answer the question:
If Larry Foote is retained & Farrior released, do the Steelers need to draft an ILB that is 'ready to go' on Day 1, or can they sit back & get a guy they feel fills the roll of back-up ILB & ST player in a later round? A guy they can develop within a couple of years to take over?"

No - I don't think they'll draft a guy in the 1st round. For that reason, I don't think the Steelers are going to draft Hightower. They have been so good historically at developing linebackers that I have a feeling they already have a plan for ILB and that player may already be on the roster (who knows?).

jhansle1, you have good insights. Solid poster.

Now..if it is this guy for the player currently on the roster who the Steelers may have a plan for....

WEAKNESSES
Only possesses average strength at the point of attack and doesn’t play well in a phone booth. Needs to expand his pass rush package. Won’t be able to get to the quarterback on quickness alone at the next level. Can struggle diagnosing play action at times and get caught out of position.


Combine 40 Time: 4.63.
Benchx225: 23. Vertical: 30.5.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/ste ... ?id=496955 (http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/stevenson-sylvester?id=496955)

...knowing that he is going into year 3 and they still dont have a clue whether he is the guy, should let us all know a lot.

And this is why I am so high on Hightower.

He can play ILB in a 3-4 zone blitz.
Compliments what Timmons brings
Leadership ability
Called the defensive signals in Saban's 3-4 zone blitz
Great motor
Great work ethic
Big play ability
Versatility--can be used many ways. Played ILB, OLB, and DE
Powerful tackler
Disciplined. knows his assignments and sticks to them.
Heady and instinctive
Dedicated to film work



Stevenson has excellent quickness, balance and agility in coverage

And who says the Steelers won't want an ILB that can cover & has good agility?

:stirpot :tt2

NJ-STEELER
03-02-2012, 01:19 AM
if they draft hightower, i hope he brings along that guy who makes the funny voices as well

http://newsone.com/files/2011/08/officer-hightower1.png