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Discipline of Steel
02-19-2012, 08:46 PM
Trading Stonio for the AB draft pick looks mor and more like genius with each passing moment.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2 ... ons-needed (http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-02-19/new-york-jets-offseason-plan-youth-character-infusions-needed)


New York Jets offseason plan: Youth, character infusions needed

This is the fifth of 32 reports in 32 days looking at the offseason game plan for each team. We’ll analyze the AFC first, in alphabetical order. Monday: Oakland Raiders. Tuesday: Pittsburgh Steelers.

The New York Jets severely overrated their talent entering the 2011 season, and can't afford to make the same mistake this season. General manager Mike Tannenbaum’s penchant for trading up in the draft has damaged the Jets’ overall depth, so he could try trading down this year.

If the Jets are stuck with sourpuss Santonio Holmes, they must find ways to sweeten up his relationship with QB Mark Sanchez. The biggest issue the Jets face in 2012 is how to get the most out of talented but mercurial wideout Santonio Holmes, who ended the season at odds with erratic quarterback Mark Sanchez. Re-establishing chemistry between those two is a must. The team also appears set to move on from wideout Plaxico Burress.

3. Wide receiver. Sanchez hasn't been helped by the team's constant tinkering at this position, as an inconsistent quarterback has been unable to develop chemistry with any wideout. The Jets are stuck with Holmes, owed $15.25 million guaranteed, so Holmes and Sanchez two must work things out.

Braylon Edwards had a terrible season with the San Francisco 49ers, but bringing him back to the Jets wouldn’t be a bad move because he has a rapport with Sanchez. But would the Jets’ hierarchy be willing to admit a mistake?

The Jets must get younger at numerous positions, and also must make sure they take character into account when making personnel moves. Holmes’ behind-the-scenes drama late in the season helped hasten the Jets’ collapse, and they must bring in players with good locker-room reputations because even a players’ coach such as Rex Ryan can't get through to everyone.

Shoe
02-19-2012, 08:56 PM
Trading Stonio for the AB draft pick looks mor and more like genius with each passing moment.

Is that really the case?
If it is (and if it is, that's amazing!), it's not as much "genius" as it is luck IMO. If we really thought AB was "AB", we wouldn't have waited til the 6th round.

It's like those who laud the Patriots* for taking Brady*, etc. If they thought he was Tom Brady*, they wouldn't have left him out there for anyone to take.

RuthlessBurgher
02-19-2012, 09:28 PM
Trading Stonio for the AB draft pick looks mor and more like genius with each passing moment.

Is that really the case?

We traded Holmes to the Jets for a 5th round pick.

Then we traded that 5th round pick from the Jets to the Cardinals for Bryant McFadden and their 6th round pick. We used the Cardinals' 6th round pick to take Brown.

So, indirectly, that is the case.

Chadman
02-20-2012, 12:48 AM
:lol:

Pretty sure Shoe's point wasn't that they used the 6th round pick on AB, but more that the Steelers didn't trade Holmes with the view to replacing him SPECIFICALLY with a 6th round pick at WR.

Chadman thinks...maybe Shoe is suggesting that while AB is a great draft pick, the Steelers kind of 'lucked' into him being a success- you can hardly 'plan' on your 6th round picks becoming team MVP's.

Besides- Holmes' real replacement was already on the roster- Mike Wallace.

SteelerOfDeVille
02-20-2012, 07:27 AM
Besides- Holmes' real replacement was already on the roster- Mike Wallace.
Bingo. We replaced our deep threat with a faster deep threat. Although finding AB was a really good find. And very similar to 'Tonio.

Quick note on the brady thing... funny, we passed on him and took Tee Martin a couple of round earlier. Besides, what's brady done without cheating? He certainly doesn't have a Super Bowl.

Discipline of Steel
02-20-2012, 07:52 AM
:lol:

Pretty sure Shoe's point wasn't that they used the 6th round pick on AB, but more that the Steelers didn't trade Holmes with the view to replacing him SPECIFICALLY with a 6th round pick at WR.

Chadman thinks...maybe Shoe is suggesting that while AB is a great draft pick, the Steelers kind of 'lucked' into him being a success- you can hardly 'plan' on your 6th round picks becoming team MVP's.

Besides- Holmes' real replacement was already on the roster- Mike Wallace.

Well my point, which seems to have been lost here, is that it was genius to trade Stonio...even if it was just for a 5th round pick. I remember A LOT of criticism of the move on this board at the time it occured. Very glad it wasnt us that gave him his new contract!!!

and maybe they didnt plan to select AB with the 6th rounder they ultimately got from the Cardinals, but they could have had him in mind when the trade went down and were positioning themselves to pick him up if he was still available.

Overall, it turned out very well for us so i think it was a shrewd series of events.

flippy
02-20-2012, 08:32 AM
Just playing devil's advocate here, but if we didn't trade Santonio, we may have our 7th Lombardi.

Ben didn't have a WR that was getting open on that last drive vs GB in the SuperBowl and I'm positive Santonio would have been the guy Ben would have been looking for knowing he would be open.

So while it looks like a decent move over the long term. This move may have cost us a lot more than we're willing to admit.

Eich
02-20-2012, 09:11 AM
Just playing devil's advocate here, but if we didn't trade Santonio, we may have our 7th Lombardi.

Ben didn't have a WR that was getting open on that last drive vs GB in the SuperBowl and I'm positive Santonio would have been the guy Ben would have been looking for knowing he would be open.

So while it looks like a decent move over the long term. This move may have cost us a lot more than we're willing to admit.

But you're ignoring the Santonio meltdown factor. Ever since he made "The Catch", his head has grown to epic proportions. It's all about him. With the season on the line, the Jets didn't even have him in the GAME at the end. He's a cancer like TO. And unless he has a major look-in-the-mirror attitude adjustment, he'll continue to bring down those around him.

I don't think it cost us number 7. I think we were and are better off without him. Some guys can handle sucess. Other guys become a Holmes. "That's how you be great".

feltdizz
02-20-2012, 10:40 AM
Just playing devil's advocate here, but if we didn't trade Santonio, we may have our 7th Lombardi.

Ben didn't have a WR that was getting open on that last drive vs GB in the SuperBowl and I'm positive Santonio would have been the guy Ben would have been looking for knowing he would be open.

So while it looks like a decent move over the long term. This move may have cost us a lot more than we're willing to admit.

But you're ignoring the Santonio meltdown factor. Ever since he made "The Catch", his head has grown to epic proportions. It's all about him. With the season on the line, the Jets didn't even have him in the GAME at the end. He's a cancer like TO. And unless he has a major look-in-the-mirror attitude adjustment, he'll continue to bring down those around him.

I don't think it cost us number 7. I think we were and are better off without him. Some guys can handle sucess. Other guys become a Holmes. "That's how you be great".

season on the line? I thought the season was already over for the Jets on the last week...

Oviedo
02-20-2012, 11:07 AM
Trading Stonio for the AB draft pick looks mor and more like genius with each passing moment.

Is that really the case?
If it is (and if it is, that's amazing!), it's not as much "genius" as it is luck IMO. If we really thought AB was "AB", we wouldn't have waited til the 6th round.

It's like those who laud the Patriots* for taking Brady*, etc. If they thought he was Tom Brady*, they wouldn't have left him out there for anyone to take.

What it illustrates is how easy it is to replace a WR in this league now. With all the advanatages the offense is given WRs don't have to fight to get open and for balls like they use to because the DBs can't be physical with them.

Getting rid of Holmes was "genius" because it removed a locker room problem.

We got rid of Stupidio and had no issues. We got rid of Plastico and had not issues. If Wallace were to leave we would also have no issues. Give me the 1st Round pick so that we can really fix the OL because if we don't it won't matter who is at WR because we won't have Ben throwing to them.

phillyesq
02-20-2012, 11:56 AM
Trading Stonio for the AB draft pick looks mor and more like genius with each passing moment.

Is that really the case?
If it is (and if it is, that's amazing!), it's not as much "genius" as it is luck IMO. If we really thought AB was "AB", we wouldn't have waited til the 6th round.

It's like those who laud the Patriots* for taking Brady*, etc. If they thought he was Tom Brady*, they wouldn't have left him out there for anyone to take.

What it illustrates is how easy it is to replace a WR in this league now. With all the advanatages the offense is given WRs don't have to fight to get open and for balls like they use to because the DBs can't be physical with them.

Getting rid of Holmes was "genius" because it removed a locker room problem.

We got rid of Stupidio and had no issues. We got rid of Plastico and had not issues. If Wallace were to leave we would also have no issues. Give me the 1st Round pick so that we can really fix the OL because if we don't it won't matter who is at WR because we won't have Ben throwing to them.

I agree with you that getting rid of Santonio was good for the Steelers, but I don't think that WRs are quite as easy to replace as you are making it seem.

Here is a link to stats for rookie WR.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=RECEIVING_YARDS&tabSeq=0&season=2011&Submit=Go&experience=0&archive=false&statisticCategory=RECEIVING&conference=null&qualified=true

There were some solid contributors in the group, but also a lot of WRs with slow rookie seasons. AJ Green was an exception, but with big WRs in particular, it can take time for them to contribute. Plaxico, for example, had an awful rookie year.

Captain Lemming
02-20-2012, 02:20 PM
Trading Stonio for the AB draft pick looks mor and more like genius with each passing moment.

Is that really the case?
If it is (and if it is, that's amazing!), it's not as much "genius" as it is luck IMO. If we really thought AB was "AB", we wouldn't have waited til the 6th round.

It's like those who laud the Patriots* for taking Brady*, etc. If they thought he was Tom Brady*, they wouldn't have left him out there for anyone to take.

What it illustrates is how easy it is to replace a WR in this league now. With all the advanatages the offense is given WRs don't have to fight to get open and for balls like they use to because the DBs can't be physical with them.

Getting rid of Holmes was "genius" because it removed a locker room problem.

We got rid of Stupidio and had no issues. We got rid of Plastico and had not issues. If Wallace were to leave we would also have no issues. Give me the 1st Round pick so that we can really fix the OL because if we don't it won't matter who is at WR because we won't have Ben throwing to them.

Brilliant OV. That is the same tune I'm singin.

Discipline of Steel
02-20-2012, 04:14 PM
Trading Stonio for the AB draft pick looks mor and more like genius with each passing moment.

Is that really the case?
If it is (and if it is, that's amazing!), it's not as much "genius" as it is luck IMO. If we really thought AB was "AB", we wouldn't have waited til the 6th round.

It's like those who laud the Patriots* for taking Brady*, etc. If they thought he was Tom Brady*, they wouldn't have left him out there for anyone to take.

What it illustrates is how easy it is to replace a WR in this league now. With all the advanatages the offense is given WRs don't have to fight to get open and for balls like they use to because the DBs can't be physical with them.

Getting rid of Holmes was "genius" because it removed a locker room problem.

We got rid of Stupidio and had no issues. We got rid of Plastico and had not issues. If Wallace were to leave we would also have no issues. Give me the 1st Round pick so that we can really fix the OL because if we don't it won't matter who is at WR because we won't have Ben throwing to them.

Let me take it even a step further and say they had the FORESIGHT to realize Stonio's antics would only grow in proportion to his head. Turns out, recent history proves this correct.

Eich
02-20-2012, 04:45 PM
Just playing devil's advocate here, but if we didn't trade Santonio, we may have our 7th Lombardi.

Ben didn't have a WR that was getting open on that last drive vs GB in the SuperBowl and I'm positive Santonio would have been the guy Ben would have been looking for knowing he would be open.

So while it looks like a decent move over the long term. This move may have cost us a lot more than we're willing to admit.

But you're ignoring the Santonio meltdown factor. Ever since he made "The Catch", his head has grown to epic proportions. It's all about him. With the season on the line, the Jets didn't even have him in the GAME at the end. He's a cancer like TO. And unless he has a major look-in-the-mirror attitude adjustment, he'll continue to bring down those around him.

I don't think it cost us number 7. I think we were and are better off without him. Some guys can handle sucess. Other guys become a Holmes. "That's how you be great".

season on the line? I thought the season was already over for the Jets on the last week...

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_ ... -jets-loss (http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/7411183/source-captain-santonio-holmes-quit-new-york-jets-loss)

"The Jets (8-8) came into the game needing a win, along with losses by three other teams, to reach the playoffs. Instead, they finished the season with three consecutive defeats, a big step backward for a team that reached the AFC Championship Game each of the past two years."