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View Full Version : Since 2007 Eli > Ben



NorthCoast
02-17-2012, 10:06 PM
Net yds per pass play, Eli has been better than Ben since 2007.

Bottom line, Ben has not progressed as well as Eli in the passing game. I am hoping a new OC can kick Ben's behind and help him be a more efficient QB.
Ben will not be able to continue taking the pounding he does every year without it affecting his playing time or performance.

hawaiiansteel
02-17-2012, 10:45 PM
Net yds per pass play, Eli has been better than Ben since 2007.

Bottom line, Ben has not progressed as well as Eli in the passing game. I am hoping a new OC can kick Ben's behind and help him be a more efficient QB.
Ben will not be able to continue taking the pounding he does every year without it affecting his playing time or performance.


yeah, but in Ben's defense Eli didn't have Bruce Arians calling the plays for him... :D

Mister Pittsburgh
02-18-2012, 09:52 AM
Aaron Rodgers has progressed into an efficient QB as well. He used to be a lot like Ben.

NJ-STEELER
02-18-2012, 10:06 AM
eli's been in the league since '04 and barring his rookie year has had much
better weapons at his disposal

D Rock
02-18-2012, 10:39 AM
eli's been in the league since '04 and barring his rookie year has had much
better weapons at his disposal


Much better weapons for Eli?

I think they are pretty much on the same playing field as far as weapons.

Now offensive lines...that's a different story.

Steel Life
02-18-2012, 10:47 AM
Hasn't Eli led the league in interceptions twice? And one of those was just last year...hmmm.

Feel free to be a prisoner of the moment but remember that Eli was only 8-8 this season & that the Giants got hot at the right time & were lucky to beat the 49ers.

Flasteel
02-18-2012, 11:16 AM
Net yds per pass play, Eli has been better than Ben since 2007.

Bottom line, Ben has not progressed as well as Eli in the passing game. I am hoping a new OC can kick Ben's behind and help him be a more efficient QB.
Ben will not be able to continue taking the pounding he does every year without it affecting his playing time or performance.

They've both been up and down their entire career (in terms of efficiency), but because Eli started so low and Ben strarted off so well, it creates the impression that Eli has progressed more than Ben. I mean, it's actually true based on the numbers, But Ben has consistently played at a much higher level than Eli throughout his career. Below are both players' career passer rating numbers:

Eli
2004 55.4
2005 75.9
2006 77.0
2007 73.9
2008 86.4
2009 93.1
2010 85.3
2011 92.9
Career 82.1

Ben
2004 98.1
2005 98.6
2006 75.4
2007 104.1
2008 80.1
2009 100.5
2010 97.0
2011 90.1
Career 92.1

The 2 years in bold represent statistical outliers, as compared to the rest of the player's career. For Manning, those 2 years happen to be above his career average, thus inflating his numbers somewhat.

Now his passer rating is what it is, and while he does have an equally anomalous low rating his rookie year, he's a guy who typically shows up in the 70's or 80's. The only consecutive years where he trended upwards in rating, was between his 2nd and 3rd years.

Ben has a couple outliers as well. In his case however, those numbers are far below the rest of his seasons. Ben has never trended upwards in consecutive seasons, painting the picture that he's more up and down than Manning...but only slightly.

Since 2007, the Steelers as a team have been 55-25, while the Giants have been 49-31.

I'm not sure what you're basing your argument on, but bottom line is that since 2007, Ben has clearly been the better quarterback.

Silenetwolf
02-21-2012, 05:48 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":29kw9eys]eli's been in the league since '04 and barring his rookie year has had much
better weapons at his disposal


Much better weapons for Eli?

I think they are pretty much on the same playing field as far as weapons.

Now offensive lines...that's a different story.[/quote:29kw9eys]

There you go, I think it is unfair to compare Ben with any QB with the revolving door the Steelers front line has been.

NJ-STEELER
02-21-2012, 06:55 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":37rb0318]eli's been in the league since '04 and barring his rookie year has had much
better weapons at his disposal


Much better weapons for Eli?

I think they are pretty much on the same playing field as far as weapons.

Now offensive lines...that's a different story.[/quote:37rb0318]

by looking at the drafts, FA signings and trades from that point, its pretty clear that the giants have invested more

D Rock
02-21-2012, 07:59 PM
[quote="D Rock":2qkl4ulx][quote="NJ-STEELER":2qkl4ulx]eli's been in the league since '04 and barring his rookie year has had much
better weapons at his disposal


Much better weapons for Eli?

I think they are pretty much on the same playing field as far as weapons.

Now offensive lines...that's a different story.[/quote:2qkl4ulx]

by looking at the drafts, FA signings and trades from that point, its pretty clear that the giants have invested more[/quote:2qkl4ulx]


Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Heath Miller, Willie Parker, Rashard Mendenhall, Isaac Redman

Plaxico Burress, Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, Steve Smith, Kevin Boss, Tiki Barber, Ahmad Bradshaw, Brandon Jacobs


I'd say those are pretty comparable, if not slanted towards the Steelers.

aggiebones
02-21-2012, 09:02 PM
Better is a VERY loose term.
You are talking about a team game, not an individual game. Who's line is better? Who's WRs, who's running game? Who's defense takes more pressure off them. Which offense is more stat friendly?

Stats don't really say anything to those familiar with the game.

NJ-STEELER
02-22-2012, 01:20 AM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":2xmwj7mu][quote="D Rock":2xmwj7mu][quote="NJ-STEELER":2xmwj7mu]eli's been in the league since '04 and barring his rookie year has had much
better weapons at his disposal


Much better weapons for Eli?

I think they are pretty much on the same playing field as far as weapons.

Now offensive lines...that's a different story.[/quote:2xmwj7mu]

by looking at the drafts, FA signings and trades from that point, its pretty clear that the giants have invested more[/quote:2xmwj7mu]


Hines Ward, Santonio Holmes, Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown, Heath Miller, Willie Parker, Rashard Mendenhall, Isaac Redman

Plaxico Burress, Hakeem Nicks, Victor Cruz, Steve Smith, Kevin Boss, Tiki Barber, Ahmad Bradshaw, Brandon Jacobs


I'd say those are pretty comparable, if not slanted towards the Steelers.[/quote:2xmwj7mu]
RBs, i'll give you

we chose to let 2 1st round WRs walk in free agency, the giants signed one of them

NYG already had shcoky until they saw boss was a capable replacement

smith 2nd rounder
nicks - 1st rounder
manningham- 2nd ronder
cruz - FA

versus

wallace and sanders - 3rd rders
brown -6th rounder


the giants FO has spent more assets on the passing game

D Rock
02-22-2012, 06:19 AM
I forgot Manningham. Now I know how the Patriots feel.

But even so, you've changed your tune from "has better weapons" to "FO has invested more in weapons"


It doesn't matter where they come from, just that they are there.

steelblood
02-22-2012, 09:17 AM
They are different types of QBs.

Both are very good. Both have two rings. Not much more to say. Splitting hairs is not for me as I have a receding hair line.

RuthlessBurgher
02-22-2012, 11:11 AM
They are different types of QBs.

Both are very good. Both have two rings. Not much more to say. Splitting hairs is not for me as I have a receding hair line.

Wouldn't splitting hairs be good for you then? When you are done splitting hairs, you would have twice as many hairs! :wink:

NJ-STEELER
02-24-2012, 10:59 PM
their FO have spent more assets on weapons therefore have better weapons...better?

who have no one that can match nicks. wallace is the closest but is a different type of receiver yet some wouldnt mind losing him for a pick. what would the weapons look like then

Shoe
02-25-2012, 11:47 AM
They are different types of QBs.

Both are very good. Both have two rings. Not much more to say. Splitting hairs is not for me as I have a receding hair line.

Exactly.
It CERTAINLY is debateable since '07. Those homers who dismiss it aren't being objective. I'll still say Ben, but Eli was "elite" this year... I know that. And he has two rings in that time.

Flasteel
02-25-2012, 12:29 PM
They are different types of QBs.

Both are very good. Both have two rings. Not much more to say. Splitting hairs is not for me as I have a receding hair line.

Exactly.
It CERTAINLY is debateable since '07. Those homers who dismiss it aren't being objective. I'll still say Ben, but Eli was "elite" this year... I know that. And he has two rings in that time.

I agree with all of this...with everything imaginable considered, they are both terrific quarterbacks who bring different skill sets to the table. However, I think nearly everyone outside of Giant fans and Ben haters would give the edge to Roethlisberger.
So why then would a Steeler fan, on a Steeler message board, feel there is enough separation the other way to proclaim Eli is better since 2007? Big friggin' deal if that's your opinion. But don't come on this forum and make a statement like that, with only one (incorrect) stat in your back pocket to back it up.

I get the point the OP was trying to make about progression...and Manning obviously had the better 2011 campaign, but he's off-base to make such a sweeping statement.

NJ-STEELER
02-25-2012, 01:37 PM
They are different types of QBs.

Both are very good. Both have two rings. Not much more to say. Splitting hairs is not for me as I have a receding hair line.

Exactly.
It CERTAINLY is debateable since '07. Those homers who dismiss it aren't being objective. I'll still say Ben, but Eli was "elite" this year... I know that. And he has two rings in that time.

I agree with all of this...with everything imaginable considered, they are both terrific quarterbacks who bring different skill sets to the table. However, I think nearly everyone outside of Giant fans and Ben haters would give the edge to Roethlisberger.
So why then would a Steeler fan, on a Steeler message board, feel there is enough separation the other way to proclaim Eli is better since 2007? Big friggin' deal if that's your opinion. But don't come on this forum and make a statement like that, with only one (incorrect) stat in your back pocket to back it up.

I get the point the OP was trying to make about progression...and Manning obviously had the better 2011 campaign, but he's off-base to make such a sweeping statement.

yeah, where was this thread when the giants missed the playoffs for 3 straight years

imagine what some would be saying if that happened to the steelers