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hawaiiansteel
02-17-2012, 08:50 PM
TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 14, 2012

9.4 million reasons the Steelers won't tag Wallace


There has been some supposition that the Steelers will simply slap the franchise tag on wide receiver Mike Wallace rather than risk losing him as a restricted free agent.

Teams can begin placing the franchise tag on players Feb. 20.

Here are the franchise numbers for 2012:

Quarterback $16.1 million
Running Back $7.7 million
Wide Receiver $9.4 million
Tight End $5.4 million
Offensive Line $9.4 million
Defensive End $10.6 million
Defensive Tackle $7.9 million
Linebacker $8.8 million
Cornerback $10.6 million
Safety $6.2 million

As you can see, the cost to franchise Wallace would be $9.4 million, much too much for the salary cap-strapped Steelers to add to their cap.

But remember, the free agent market at many positions - including wide receiver - is ridiculously deep this year.

In other words, why give up a first-round draft pick to sign Wallace when you can sign DeSean Jackson, Wes Welker, Stevie Johnson, Dwayne Bowe or Marques Colston instead?

posted by Dale Lolley

http://www.observer-reporter.com/or/sidelines/

SteelBucks
02-17-2012, 09:26 PM
NFL Network says it's 50-50 whether Wallace returns to Pittsburgh. Teams with two first round picks (namely the Pats and Bengals....Ravens may also make a run at him) are likely to make an offer that the Steelers would have a hard time matching because of cap issues.

I'm not sure I agree with their reasoning but it's safe to assume they won't tag Wallace.

steelfin
02-18-2012, 12:48 AM
IMO it will be a big mistake to let Wallace go. Although he has some deficiencies in his game and a lapse in production during the second half of the season, his numbers for the first three years speak for themselves.

This is a team that just released Battles, is unsure whether they will keep Hines, or whether they will resign Cotchery. That leaves AB and Sanders. I love AB but Sanders is questionable at this point. He shows signs of life but spends most of the time injured.

It will be very disappointing and will leave the Steelers WR corp in a bad way....

Steelers need to do whatever they need to do to keep him.

SF

Slapstick
02-18-2012, 09:32 AM
IMO it will be a big mistake to let Wallace go. Although he has some deficiencies in his game and a lapse in production during the second half of the season, his numbers for the first three years speak for themselves.

This is a team that just released Battles, is unsure whether they will keep Hines, or whether they will resign Cotchery. That leaves AB and Sanders. I love AB but Sanders is questionable at this point. He shows signs of life but spends most of the time injured.

It will be very disappointing and will leave the Steelers WR corp in a bad way....

Steelers need to do whatever they need to do to keep him.

SF

Unfortunately, this is the reality of the NFL in the salary cap era...you can't keep every player....

The Steelers will tag him with the 1st round tender and see if anyone wants to make a deal for him...

flippy
02-18-2012, 06:21 PM
He's just a WR. We won a SuperBowl with Ward, ARE, and Ced.

We'll be fine with Brown, Wallace, and Tyler Grisham or whatever other scrub WR you can think of.

Elway didn't need WRs. Brady doesn't need em. Neither does Ben.

QB + Defense is the key.

We'd get a lot more use out of $9.4M for a WR. I don't even think Fitz, Megatron, or Andre Johnson are worth that kind of money.

We should really try and keep Cotchery instead imho.

pittpete
02-18-2012, 07:27 PM
Grisham is a Bronco
I agree, that
Wallace,Brown,Sanders,Ward and ???? is strong
I also feel that
Brown,Sanders,Cotchery,Ward and ???? is just as comparable + a 1st round pick

Problem is we break the bank for Wallace and Brown has another great year than how do we keep Brown.
Also we probably lose Cotchery.

aggiebones
02-18-2012, 08:30 PM
Brown, Cotchery, Sanders and Ward for another year is pretty nice.
Get a free no.1 pick and use a 3rd-5th rounder on a WR they like. At worst, that pick replaces Ward in a year as our WR4.

This is a solid worst case scenario. And agree that we can't dump THAT kind of cash on Wallace. That said, I doubt the Pats break the bank on him either. Not their style. Max contract AND lose their top pick. Just don't see it.

Shoe
02-19-2012, 12:14 AM
IMO it will be a big mistake to let Wallace go. Although he has some deficiencies in his game and a lapse in production during the second half of the season, his numbers for the first three years speak for themselves.

I'm glad someone who is wise enough to step up and say something in Wallace's favor here...

I'm exaggerating of course, but it seems that the sentiment against Wallace on this board now is so high... it borders on ridiculous. As you say, he's like 25 years old, 3 years in the league, and has shown tremendous potential. The guy is one of those guys who makes an impact whether the ball is thrown his way or not, because of the threat he brings.

Now, it's funny, because I'm going to actually side with those that I'm arguing against... but I'm not going to trash him or call him a bum all of a sudden (i.e. just cuz he had a not-so-good 2nd half of the season).

Northern_Blitz
02-19-2012, 09:57 AM
Brown, Cotchery, Sanders and Ward for another year is pretty nice.
Get a free no.1 pick and use a 3rd-5th rounder on a WR they like. At worst, that pick replaces Ward in a year as our WR4.

This is a solid worst case scenario. And agree that we can't dump THAT kind of cash on Wallace. That said, I doubt the Pats break the bank on him either. Not their style. Max contract AND lose their top pick. Just don't see it.

This is the big point here. To get Wallace, a team has to give up their 1st pick (which GMs hate to do), and hand out a big salary for a guy who has been very good but has only been a #1 for two seasons (and he tailed off at the end of last season).

Wallace is still somewhat of a gamble (but a much more proven commodity than a 1st), but a 1st (especially a late 1st) will be way cheaper.

Since GMs always think their the smartest guy in the room, I feel like most would think that they can draft a good-great player in the fist and save money.

I want to keep Wallace. I don't think another team will give up a first for him. If they do, we can still match the contract if it's reasonable. If we don't, we get a 1st round pick...not as good as keeping Wallace IMO, but not a bad worst case (especially with our cap issues).

Oviedo
02-19-2012, 10:49 AM
No reason to tag Wallace. Just give him a RFA tender with 1st Round compensation and be happy with the extra 1st Round pick. It's a win-win.

Chadman
02-19-2012, 10:58 AM
Losing Wallace would be a mistake of cataclysmic proportions. Ben would get found out as a QB that relies on the 'big play' to succeed, Ward will be shown up as a guy that can't get open, running lanes for Mendy will become non-existant, and if Mendy with his speed can't get to a hole quick enough, sure-as-Hell Redman won't make it to the hole either, Brown will get exposed a a guy that relied only on Wallace's speed to open the field for him & Sanders will be seen for the injury prone bust that he is.


Of course, not all of this may be true.


That said- regardless of if you believe Wallace is this mystical "Top 5" WR some keep blabbing about- he IS the Steelers best offensive weapon not named Roethlisberger. He gives every defense that element of doubt, and now commands double coverage, opening up the field for someone else to succeed. He's nowhere near as bad as some posters would make you believe after 'tailing off' this season (coincidentally, the exact same time Brown's stats started to raise dramatically- linked perhaps?). Is he 'complete'? No- not at all.

But he makes the Steelers passing game close to complete (only missing that blocking aspect..).

Losing him would be BAD. Yes- he's a speed guy, and you can get speed guys in all 7 rounds. But he's not JUST a speed guy- otherwise we are saying that Ben would make Bethal Johnson look like Randy Moss, that Willie Reid could take Calvin Johnson's mantel..

Wallace is very, very good. Losing him will put the Steelers passing game back several gears & notches. And with an aging defense, roster cuts about to cut deep, veteran players nearing the end, or past their best & still no decent OL/Running Game to speak of....can the Steelers afford to take a step back with their passing game?

Captain Lemming
02-19-2012, 12:19 PM
Losing Wallace would be a mistake of cataclysmic proportions. Ben would get found out as a QB that relies on the 'big play' to succeed, Ward will be shown up as a guy that can't get open, running lanes for Mendy will become non-existant, and if Mendy with his speed can't get to a hole quick enough, sure-as-Hell Redman won't make it to the hole either, Brown will get exposed a a guy that relied only on Wallace's speed to open the field for him & Sanders will be seen for the injury prone bust that he is.


Of course, not all of this may be true.


That said- regardless of if you believe Wallace is this mystical "Top 5" WR some keep blabbing about- he IS the Steelers best offensive weapon not named Roethlisberger.

Funny how the OTHER RECEIVER was voted team MVP by his peers. The team thinks Brown is more valuable. That doesn't sound lie someone who would be EXPOSED if Wallace were gone. I would say they know a thing or two about who the more important player is than you or I.

pittpete
02-19-2012, 12:27 PM
When we lost Burress,we won the Superbowl
When we lost Holmes, we went to the Superbowl.
Just saying :shock:

I feel bad for people who just went out and bought a #17 jersey recently :(

Shoe
02-19-2012, 03:34 PM
Good point pete.

As to Lemming's post, yes AB was voted team MVP. But I think even he would concede (as he watches tape), how much the presence of a guy like Wallace can open things up. As to the vote (for team MVP), you also probably realize that a lot of it is not based on who is actually the MVP... I mean, Ben would be voted every year if it was truly a gauge.

It's political, and a few other things. In this case, they probably wanted to recognize this kid's emergence, not to mention his infecious attitude and incomparable work ethic.

Northern_Blitz
02-19-2012, 04:18 PM
He's nowhere near as bad as some posters would make you believe after 'tailing off' this season (coincidentally, the exact same time Brown's stats started to raise dramatically- linked perhaps?). Is he 'complete'? No- not at all.



So what you're saying is that we can't replace Wallace and his production...except when we did.

I like Wallace and I think he is a very good receiver. I want him to be on this team for a long time. But, we have cap issues and if some team wants to give us a first AND make him a contract that we can't match because it would destroy our cap (and likely theirs) I think we have to take the first.

Chadman
02-19-2012, 05:52 PM
So what you're saying is that we can't replace Wallace and his production...except when we did.

Nope.


Just saying it's linked.

Would Brown have been as effective without Wallace?




Funny how the OTHER RECEIVER was voted team MVP by his peers. The team thinks Brown is more valuable. That doesn't sound lie someone who would be EXPOSED if Wallace were gone. I would say they know a thing or two about who the more important player is than you or I.

Well, seeing as how this is an opinion, and not based on any facts, Chadman will stick to it, regardless of how many CAPITALS you wish to use. In Chadman's opinion, Brown's success was not solely based on how good Brown is as a WR (Yes- he's good, not debating that). The fact that Wallace took double coverage & took 'the top off' the defense opened up the field more for Brown. They worked 'together' if you like.


But he makes the Steelers passing game close to complete (only missing that blocking aspect..).

Just in case you missed the point the first time..

Chadman
02-19-2012, 06:00 PM
I like Wallace and I think he is a very good receiver. I want him to be on this team for a long time. But, we have cap issues and if some team wants to give us a first AND make him a contract that we can't match because it would destroy our cap (and likely theirs) I think we have to take the first.

If the Steelers do Franchise him, or even if they just stick with the RFA tender, they'll be looking to sign him long-term. He won't be playing under the $9.4 million that we all seem to be stuck on. They'll Franchise him, then work out a deal & remove the Franchise Tag....if they don't think they can sign him long term, chances are they'll just use the high RFA tender.

The point could be moot anyway- the Steelers rarely lose FA's they want to keep. Name the last guy they tried hard to keep that flew the nest.

flippy
02-19-2012, 06:40 PM
Call me crazy, but I still think Manny Sanders might be the best of the 3 young WRs we have.

Wallace has sick speed.

Brown has a sick explosion and pair of amazing hands.

And we know very little to this point with Sanders because he's struggled through some injuries. But the little glimpses I've seen watching him, he just looks like the most polished of the 3. He just looks more natural and comfortable in his routes. And I can see him becoming the reliable go to guy that will always be open some how.

RuthlessBurgher
02-19-2012, 07:00 PM
Good point pete.

As to Lemming's post, yes AB was voted team MVP. But I think even he would concede (as he watches tape), how much the presence of a guy like Wallace can open things up. As to the vote (for team MVP), you also probably realize that a lot of it is not based on who is actually the MVP... I mean, Ben would be voted every year if it was truly a gauge.

It's political, and a few other things. In this case, they probably wanted to recognize this kid's emergence, not to mention his infecious attitude and incomparable work ethic.

And also his special teams contributions played a big role as well (Wallace is "only" a wideout, while Brown is a wideout and also a weapon as a return man). The kid broke the Steeler record for most total yards, and roughly half of that yardage was gained on special teams.

Northern_Blitz
02-19-2012, 08:03 PM
I like Wallace and I think he is a very good receiver. I want him to be on this team for a long time. But, we have cap issues and if some team wants to give us a first AND make him a contract that we can't match because it would destroy our cap (and likely theirs) I think we have to take the first.

If the Steelers do Franchise him, or even if they just stick with the RFA tender, they'll be looking to sign him long-term. He won't be playing under the $9.4 million that we all seem to be stuck on. They'll Franchise him, then work out a deal & remove the Franchise Tag....if they don't think they can sign him long term, chances are they'll just use the high RFA tender.

The point could be moot anyway- the Steelers rarely lose FA's they want to keep. Name the last guy they tried hard to keep that flew the nest.

This. I think the odds are around 90% that we keep Wallace (just like we should). But, I think that people over-value Wallace when they say that we need to franchise him. We can get him WAY cheaper using the RFA and still be protected from other teams trying to steal him.

As you say, the point of the franchise tag (or the RFA) in this case is to buy us time to negotiate a long term deal that both sides will be happy with. But, by using the RFA tag instead of the franchise tag, we deal from a position of strength.

Under the RFA, you play a year at a crappy salary (relatively) and you risk a permanant injury if you don't sign a long term deal that is below what you would receive as a UFA. In this case, the gamble is not in the players favour.

If you're making $9.5M instead, you might be more inclined to roll the dice because you already have one huge payday, and you can look for another huge payday next year when you're a UFA. Because the money is stupid, the odds of any player playing out the franchise tag and moving on is higher than it would be playing out the RFA tender and moving on.

Just my $0.02. I hope that we keep all three of our young WRs so Ben develops great chemistry with all of them.

papillon
02-19-2012, 09:36 PM
Losing Wallace would be a mistake of cataclysmic proportions. Ben would get found out as a QB that relies on the 'big play' to succeed, Ward will be shown up as a guy that can't get open, running lanes for Mendy will become non-existant, and if Mendy with his speed can't get to a hole quick enough, sure-as-Hell Redman won't make it to the hole either, Brown will get exposed a a guy that relied only on Wallace's speed to open the field for him & Sanders will be seen for the injury prone bust that he is.


Of course, not all of this may be true.


That said- regardless of if you believe Wallace is this mystical "Top 5" WR some keep blabbing about- he IS the Steelers best offensive weapon not named Roethlisberger. He gives every defense that element of doubt, and now commands double coverage, opening up the field for someone else to succeed. He's nowhere near as bad as some posters would make you believe after 'tailing off' this season (coincidentally, the exact same time Brown's stats started to raise dramatically- linked perhaps?). Is he 'complete'? No- not at all.

But he makes the Steelers passing game close to complete (only missing that blocking aspect..).

Losing him would be BAD. Yes- he's a speed guy, and you can get speed guys in all 7 rounds. But he's not JUST a speed guy- otherwise we are saying that Ben would make Bethal Johnson look like Randy Moss, that Willie Reid could take Calvin Johnson's mantel..

Wallace is very, very good. Losing him will put the Steelers passing game back several gears & notches. And with an aging defense, roster cuts about to cut deep, veteran players nearing the end, or past their best & still no decent OL/Running Game to speak of....can the Steelers afford to take a step back with their passing game?

I don't think it would be cataclysmic, the steelers would be able to fill other holes if they got a first round pick for Wallace. He played half of a year last year and started all 16 games. If he was getting double teamed then I'd say he isn't a number one receiver. Fitz, the Johnson's, white see double teams all game every game and put up big numbers, Wallace didn't.

If the steelers keep Wallace that's great, but if the trade him and improve team in other areas I won't be too disappointed in the trade.

Papillon

steelfin
02-19-2012, 10:47 PM
Call me crazy, but I still think Manny Sanders might be the best of the 3 young WRs we have.

Wallace has sick speed.

Brown has a sick explosion and pair of amazing hands.

And we know very little to this point with Sanders because he's struggled through some injuries. But the little glimpses I've seen watching him, he just looks like the most polished of the 3. He just looks more natural and comfortable in his routes. And I can see him becoming the reliable go to guy that will always be open some how.



Crazy.....

Chadman
02-19-2012, 11:46 PM
Losing Wallace would be a mistake of cataclysmic proportions. Ben would get found out as a QB that relies on the 'big play' to succeed, Ward will be shown up as a guy that can't get open, running lanes for Mendy will become non-existant, and if Mendy with his speed can't get to a hole quick enough, sure-as-Hell Redman won't make it to the hole either, Brown will get exposed a a guy that relied only on Wallace's speed to open the field for him & Sanders will be seen for the injury prone bust that he is.


Of course, not all of this may be true.


It seems entirely possible that people missed the tone of the original paragraph...

NJ-STEELER
02-20-2012, 12:40 AM
Good point pete.

As to Lemming's post, yes AB was voted team MVP. But I think even he would concede (as he watches tape), how much the presence of a guy like Wallace can open things up. As to the vote (for team MVP), you also probably realize that a lot of it is not based on who is actually the MVP... I mean, Ben would be voted every year if it was truly a gauge.

It's political, and a few other things. In this case, they probably wanted to recognize this kid's emergence, not to mention his infecious attitude and incomparable work ethic.


plus, his special teams play played a big part in the vote

Oviedo
02-20-2012, 10:17 AM
Call me crazy, but I still think Manny Sanders might be the best of the 3 young WRs we have.

Wallace has sick speed.

Brown has a sick explosion and pair of amazing hands.

And we know very little to this point with Sanders because he's struggled through some injuries. But the little glimpses I've seen watching him, he just looks like the most polished of the 3. He just looks more natural and comfortable in his routes. And I can see him becoming the reliable go to guy that will always be open some how.

I agree that Sanders may have the best upside of the current young WRs, but until he proves he can stay healthy he is #3 right now.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-20-2012, 10:42 AM
Wallace on the field had alot to do with AB's production. No taking anything away from AB but that is just the reality of it. AB is a talent...But the WRs feed off each other. If you think you saw run game struggles...Wait until teams can walk a safety down and play the other centerfield rather than having to hash a Safety to Wallace side and the other Safety remained deeper than a LB. This was one of the reason Ward's blocking ability on runs was outweighed by his prescence on the field. When Ward was opposite Wallace the Safety his side would walk right up...No fear if the Safety had to retreat into coverage because Ward was not getting over the Top.

For people valuing AB over Wallace because of his ST...
Wallace is a #1. The Steelers have others to fill that role. AB & Sanders were the Top of the list. AB has now cemented himself as the #2. Does anyone feel the report of Sanders taking over the return duties as a realtion to this or a coincidence? AB shined at it but if they can find someone who could be as productive...They will let AB concentrate at WR. You will see him back there occasionally because of injury or trickery if Sanders assumes that role but if the Steelers feel they could get the production AB gave them out of Sanders...Sanders will compete for the job.

9.4 million reasons the Steelers are considering tagging Wallace. They want him long term. The tag is in the neighborhood of 2-3 mil away from a long term cap number anyway. Tagging him ensures they retain him and get the time to get the deal done without him testing the market. If they tag him, the feel a deal is reachable and that won't be his cap number for 2012. Getting Wallace for a lower first is a steal on a RFA tender for another team. Being that the new CBA franchise tag is the average Top 5 over the last 5 years...The tag is a bargain.

2012
1 Larry Fitzgerald $20,250,000
2 Calvin Johnson $17,754,133
3 Brandon Marshall $10,400,000
4 Andre Johnson $9,328,571
5 Santonio Holmes $9,250,000
6 Sidney Rice $9,000,000
7 Steve Smith $8,196,464
8 Roddy White $8,025,000
9 Greg Jennings $7,947,500
10 Devin Hester $7,646,000

Oviedo
02-20-2012, 11:02 AM
Wallace on the field had alot to do with AB's production. No taking anything away from AB but that is just the reality of it. AB is a talent...But the WRs feed off each other. If you think you saw run game struggles...Wait until teams can walk a safety down and play the other centerfield rather than having to hash a Safety to Wallace side and the other Safety remained deeper than a LB. This was one of the reason Ward's blocking ability on runs was outweighed by his prescence on the field. When Ward was opposite Wallace the Safety his side would walk right up...No fear if the Safety had to retreat into coverage because Ward was not getting over the Top.

For people valuing AB over Wallace because of his ST...
Wallace is a #1. The Steelers have others to fill that role. AB & Sanders were the Top of the list. AB has now cemented himself as the #2. Does anyone feel the report of Sanders taking over the return duties as a realtion to this or a coincidence? AB shined at it but if they can find someone who could be as productive...They will let AB concentrate at WR. You will see him back there occasionally because of injury or trickery if Sanders assumes that role but if the Steelers feel they could get the production AB gave them out of Sanders...Sanders will compete for the job.

9.4 million reasons the Steelers are considering tagging Wallace. They want him long term. The tag is in the neighborhood of 2-3 mil away from a long term cap number anyway. Tagging him ensures they retain him and get the time to get the deal done without him testing the market. If they tag him, the feel a deal is reachable and that won't be his cap number for 2012. Getting Wallace for a lower first is a steal on a RFA tender for another team. Being that the new CBA franchise tag is the average Top 5 over the last 5 years...The tag is a bargain.

2012
1 Larry Fitzgerald $20,250,000
2 Calvin Johnson $17,754,133
3 Brandon Marshall $10,400,000
4 Andre Johnson $9,328,571
5 Santonio Holmes $9,250,000
6 Sidney Rice $9,000,000
7 Steve Smith $8,196,464
8 Roddy White $8,025,000
9 Greg Jennings $7,947,500
10 Devin Hester $7,646,000


As they rely more and more on Brown as a WR, the less he will be on Special Teams. I remember when Lynn Swann use to return punts. That didn't last long once he became the key WR on the team.

RuthlessBurgher
02-20-2012, 01:25 PM
Wallace on the field had alot to do with AB's production. No taking anything away from AB but that is just the reality of it. AB is a talent...But the WRs feed off each other. If you think you saw run game struggles...Wait until teams can walk a safety down and play the other centerfield rather than having to hash a Safety to Wallace side and the other Safety remained deeper than a LB. This was one of the reason Ward's blocking ability on runs was outweighed by his prescence on the field. When Ward was opposite Wallace the Safety his side would walk right up...No fear if the Safety had to retreat into coverage because Ward was not getting over the Top.

For people valuing AB over Wallace because of his ST...
Wallace is a #1. The Steelers have others to fill that role. AB & Sanders were the Top of the list. AB has now cemented himself as the #2. Does anyone feel the report of Sanders taking over the return duties as a realtion to this or a coincidence? AB shined at it but if they can find someone who could be as productive...They will let AB concentrate at WR. You will see him back there occasionally because of injury or trickery if Sanders assumes that role but if the Steelers feel they could get the production AB gave them out of Sanders...Sanders will compete for the job.

9.4 million reasons the Steelers are considering tagging Wallace. They want him long term. The tag is in the neighborhood of 2-3 mil away from a long term cap number anyway. Tagging him ensures they retain him and get the time to get the deal done without him testing the market. If they tag him, the feel a deal is reachable and that won't be his cap number for 2012. Getting Wallace for a lower first is a steal on a RFA tender for another team. Being that the new CBA franchise tag is the average Top 5 over the last 5 years...The tag is a bargain.

2012
1 Larry Fitzgerald $20,250,000
2 Calvin Johnson $17,754,133
3 Brandon Marshall $10,400,000
4 Andre Johnson $9,328,571
5 Santonio Holmes $9,250,000
6 Sidney Rice $9,000,000
7 Steve Smith $8,196,464
8 Roddy White $8,025,000
9 Greg Jennings $7,947,500
10 Devin Hester $7,646,000


As they rely more and more on Brown as a WR, the less he will be on Special Teams. I remember when Lynn Swann use to return punts. That didn't last long once he became the key WR on the team.

I agree, but Rod Woodson was contributing on special teams as an elite return man long into his Hall-of-Fame resume as a corner for us.

Speaking of special teams, how weird is it that an all-time return man, but substantially below average wideout is making the 10th most money among NFL WR's? There is a reason that Hester was a DB in college and not a WR.

Captain Lemming
02-20-2012, 01:42 PM
Good point pete.

As to Lemming's post, yes AB was voted team MVP. But I think even he would concede (as he watches tape), how much the presence of a guy like Wallace can open things up. As to the vote (for team MVP), you also probably realize that a lot of it is not based on who is actually the MVP... I mean, Ben would be voted every year if it was truly a gauge.

It's political, and a few other things. In this case, they probably wanted to recognize this kid's emergence, not to mention his infecious attitude and incomparable work ethic.

And also his special teams contributions played a big role as well (Wallace is "only" a wideout, while Brown is a wideout and also a weapon as a return man). The kid broke the Steeler record for most total yards, and roughly half of that yardage was gained on special teams.

Agreed about special teams. And the kid had 1,000 yard both as a return guy AND as a receiver. That is NFL history stuff right there. In his second year, the kid is breaking NFL records.

Yes and what does his special teams success demonstrate? It shows that the kid is special WITHOUT Wallace.

The same shiftiness elusiveness you see with him as a receiver are clearly seen on special teams.

Think about it people. Just as Wallace has no peer in Steeler history for speed as a receiver, Brown has unprecedented elusiveness.

Come ON slow poke HINES was productive with A QUARTERBACK as the other receiver! You tellin me Brown cant do it unless he has the fastest receiver in the league on the other side?

Brown has all the ability of Steve Smith and when all is said and done his career will be at that level. Smith never needed a burner opposite him to be great.

Early in the Careers of Swann and Stallworth, Swann was TBs favorite target. Teams would devote their best cover guy and double Swann. When Stallworth began excelling I remember people saying that it was because Swann got the extra coverage. People thought Swann "made" Stallworth at one time. Truth was Stallworth was JUST as effective and MORE targeted when Swann was out.

You just have to look at Brown to see what makes him special. His skill set gets him open, and that wont stop if Wallace is gone.

Dont get me wrong. My opinion is that Wallace is the leagues best deep threat. And I get your points about what that does to a defense overall. I believe that with Wallace we have a "GREAT" set of wideouts, which will be only "good" without him. If this were BASEBALL I would say sign the dude.

But this is Football and you have a hard cap. We may not have the money to spend on Wallace at all. If we do, how can you sign him and pass up on some of the guard talent available in free agency? I would take the hit at receiver to get a pro bowl caliber guard, turning a weakess into a strength. Save for Pouncey we are soft in the middle. Give me a great guard and we can punch it in when we need to, our interior runs would not be completeley wasted plays, and we could sit on a lead like we did so well under Cowher.

We are so enamored with all of this "explosiveness" at wideout but we get plenty of pass yards and die in the red zone. Even passing in short yardage is easier, since respect for the run means that some of your dbs have to attack the LOS to fill in the gaps. When your oline is weak that is a lesser concern, and all your receivers are covered should you decide to pass.

I say sign Jeremiah (who is our best RZ receiver) and sign Wallace to the one year restricted free agent deal knowing full well that another team will snag him.

I would not sign Wallace to a long term deal when that money could go elsewhere to shore up another position.

feltdizz
02-20-2012, 01:54 PM
A close friend of mine has an older brother who used to coach at AB's school in Michigan...

He said all Brown did was make plays and he told me the day he was drafted that he had the potential to be a star.

No doubt the double teams on Wallace make it easier for Brown but Brown is a beast and will excel with or without him.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-20-2012, 02:47 PM
I agree, but Rod Woodson was contributing on special teams as an elite return man long into his Hall-of-Fame resume as a corner for us.

Speaking of special teams, how weird is it that an all-time return man, but substantially below average wideout is making the 10th most money among NFL WR's? There is a reason that Hester was a DB in college and not a WR.

Woodson was the best & only option for the Steelers for a very long time. Punt returns take a unique animal and Woodson was really their only reliable option which he did pretty much his whole career here. We all remember the Mills-Thompson-Thigpen-Morris-Pegram-Arnold experiment on kickoffs. Hastings proved himself when Woodson went down in '95 and Woodson yielded it to him the following year which was his last.

Defenders usually get the nod regardless of their status. Not many offensive starters take on that role unless they clearly give them the best chance of holding on to the ball or making a play on a lack luster offensive team. You take a quick glance at the top 25 WRs & RBs, you don't see many of those starters as a teams return guy. Harvin is a full time starter and he had many returns. Sproles could be added in there too but he isn't a feature in NO. It has nothing to do with their talent as a returner. I would be willing to bet those athletes would be their teams most productive option but the risk reward with ST play is always very risky.

AB is the #2 and I don't expect any challenge from Sanders. That's not a knock on Sanders and he may end up right there with what Brown can do as a WR (What a good problem to have) in his career. Brown has set the bar and he is the type that keeps pushing it up for himself. Hard to imagine anyone being more impressive than him at #2 that would make the coaches make that kind of decision. I think the Steelers always have the luxury of having interchangeable parts with Wallace, AB, & Sanders if they remain together. One gets dinged and has to sit I think the slide from #2 to #1 or #3 to #2 or even #3 to #1 if two have to sit is effortless. Really a good situation at WR in Pittsburgh which is why trying to retain them all long term could prove to be a Dynasty cog with BB and another piece of the OL this year.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-20-2012, 03:02 PM
A close friend of mine has an older brother who used to coach at AB's school in Michigan...

He said all Brown did was make plays and he told me the day he was drafted that he had the potential to be a star.

No doubt the double teams on Wallace make it easier for Brown but Brown is a beast and will excel with or without him.

AB is a talent, there is no question. AB production had something to do with Wallace on the field..That is also easy to agree with. Brown could survive without Wallace because saying he can't takes away from who Brown is. I think maybe the bigger questions are why can't they both be a Steeler and Are the Steelers a better team with both? If you can answer yes to both, which is the case in my opinion, than why not try to do that? Steelers have had a long running philosophy of keeping there own if it made them better. Having Wallace here makes the team better...Than having Ward, Kemo, Smith, Hampton, Farrior, Foote, & Allen on this team. I would go as far as saying "Combined". And that's for 2012 & long run. Next man up and Draft well.

Make it so.

Captain Lemming
02-20-2012, 07:20 PM
Are the Steelers a better team with both? If you can answer yes to both, which is the case in my opinion, than why not try to do that? Steelers have had a long running philosophy of keeping there own if it made them better. Having Wallace here makes the team better...Than having Ward, Kemo, Smith, Hampton, Farrior, Foote, & Allen on this team. I would go as far as saying "Combined". And that's for 2012 & long run. Next man up and Draft well.

Make it so.

If there is no cap I agree completely we are better with Wallace if you do not factor in that limitation. You dump all those guys and you still gotta pay bodies for those positions. You can get under the cap but do you clear enough to pay Wallace his market value? If you do clear that much dough and give it all to our deepest position is that wise?

Our entire interior defense is glutted.

In my plan we tender but lose Wallace but still have a "good" (not great) stable of receivers but add a draft pick.

Grab one of several probowl guards available with Walace's money.

Now we can draft BOTH an inside LBer and a NT in the first. No need to waste a pick on a 1st round olineman. Combine one of our firsts and second to get make on of our picks an elite choice in round one.

I have strenthened 3 positions in the process with first round talent, while giving up one player at our deepest position.

Look at your draft. We still get your number one Poe. We can easily add Hightower rather than your third rounder at inside LBer and can get a proven beast as a free agent guard rather than your second rounder.

We have good not great receivers, but our overall team talent takes a huge leap forward.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-20-2012, 09:56 PM
If there is no cap I agree completely we are better with Wallace if you do not factor in that limitation. You dump all those guys and you still gotta pay bodies for those positions. You can get under the cap but do you clear enough to pay Wallace his market value? If you do clear that much dough and give it all to our deepest position is that wise?

Our entire interior defense is glutted.

In my plan we tender but lose Wallace but still have a "good" (not great) stable of receivers but add a draft pick.

Grab one of several probowl guards available with Walace's money.

Now we can draft BOTH an inside LBer and a NT in the first. No need to waste a pick on a 1st round olineman. Combine one of our firsts and second to get make on of our picks an elite choice in round one.

I have strenthened 3 positions in the process with first round talent, while giving up one player at our deepest position.

Look at your draft. We still get your number one Poe. We can easily add Hightower rather than your third rounder at inside LBer and can get a proven beast as a free agent guard rather than your second rounder.

We have good not great receivers, but our overall team talent takes a huge leap forward.
So let me get this straight...you want to tender Wallace 2.5 and sign a pro bowl G come FA that will run in the 7 mil range. So the cap was your reasoning for not tagging Wallace at 9.5 but you somehow can come up with the money in your scenario? You will have to clear the money at the start so where you finding this cap space without cutting the same guys I listed? You said give money to deepest position. Well now you created a 7 mil G with a 5.7 mil RT. You have Pouncey who will get done early and be one of the highest paid interior guys. Gilbert to LT with a good 2012 may get him a new deal early. Long term forecast does not suit signing a high price FA G. They will have to address OL via draft. To be honest, I don't expect them to do anything in FA until after June 1st besides working on their own.

My cuts have to be made. I'm not gutting anything that isn't already gutted. Hampton won't be available. Smith is not a starter and may be done period. Farrior and Foote are trade offs playing at backup levels. OnE can remain. It's dead money on stale players that needs to be applied elsewhere. Kemo and Ward are cap eaters that have or will be replaced no matter what happens so there money is shifting. I'm not gutting purely to get money to retain a premier player. I'm gutting based upon lack of performance and their cap number. If they weren't in cap trouble...The same bodeis must go.

Draft well. That is what the Steelers have done and will continue to do. Wallace gets his long term deal and next man up where the cuts came. The Steelers have some in place to hold down the spot if needed. The Steelers will always have the option after draft signings to get the bargain FA if they need to fill holes.

Bottom line is keep your own. That has been the standard for their player products. No issues with Wallace so he is their kind of player to keep long term. Cap is going to make it difficult but believe me...It is their mission. It is going to be ugly for the sympathetic Steeler fan come June 1st. They are trying to restructure everyone they can to hold out on cuts to spread out the dead money after June 1st.

I was a Steeler fan long before the likes of Ward, Hampton, Smith, Farrior, etc came along and I will be a fan long after. The door slammed shut in Denver. Why do I think it is coming and why did the door slam shut? BA out and a new OC. It isn't a matter of "when" it is happening...It is a matter of how fast they can get back to the same level with the young guys in place. I'm actually optimistic that it will be in 2012. There is only one position on that list that may create some growing pains out of the gate but I expect it to turn around early in the season. If they do decide to cut both Farrior & Foote there will be a transition. Not on production stand point because I believe everyone on that list can be out performed by someone on this roster. From a field general standpoint. That is why I think they may keep one to give them time to groom the rookie. Timmons will eventually settle in but making the pre-snap adjustments will be something he will grow into quickly.

Slapstick
02-21-2012, 10:00 AM
I don't think that most GMs are as fast and loose with huge contracts and first round draft picks as some media members and board posters think they are...

Not these days...

steelz09
02-21-2012, 11:27 AM
I haven't been following the situations that closely but...

Won't the Steelers at least get a 1st rounder for him? If so, so be it...

I'm a Wallace fan but the Steelers put themselves in this situation so it's their own fault. The Steelers have historically replaced their talent very well. I'd hate to see Wallace leave but at least we'll get another first round pick.

hawaiiansteel
02-21-2012, 11:28 AM
Ed: What Is Mike Wallace Worth?

TUESDAY, 21 FEBRUARY 2012 WRITTEN BY ED BOUCHETTE


Good morning,

Mike Wallace is back in the news this week because franchise tags were first permitted to be issued by teams Monday. No surprise the Steelers did not tag Wallace, although they can still do that until March 3.

Kevin Colbert pretty much acknowledged on 93.7 The Fan the other day that the Steelers were in no position to franchise Wallace because they had salary cap problems. The Steelers are about $10 million over the cap now. Franchising Wallace at more than $9 million for 2012 would put them close to $20 million over the cap.

Here is another issue that is more important -- Does anyone think Wallace should get more than $9 million in 2012. And, once they do that, the Steelers would have to start there if they wanted to negotiate a longer-term deal. Wallace is good, but not $10 million annually good. So, they will make him the more reasonable restricted free agent one-year tender and see what develops. Other teams can sign Wallace to a contract after free agency begins . The Steelers would then have two options -- do nothing and receive a first-round 2012 draft choice in return from the team that signed him, or they could match the contract he signed with the other team and keep him.

The Steelers are willing to have Wallace test the market, and if indeed he signs a contract and they deem it too high, they'll take a first-round draft choice in return and have two first-round picks for only the second time since the 1970s NFL merger (the other was 1989). So what is Mike Wallace worth? His first three seasons have been rocket-like, with him climbing higher and higher. However, in the middle of what seemed to be his best and record-setting season, Wallace fizzled.

Through the first eight games, Wallace caught 43 passes for 800 yards, on pace for a 1,600-yard season that would have obliterated the team record by more than 200 yards. However, in the final eight games he caught 29 passes for only 393 yards. He averaged 18.6 yards a catch in the first half of the season, just 13.6 in the second half to finish with a career low average of 16.6 yards per catch.

He topped it off with a miserable playoff game in Denver, where he caught three passes for 26 yards.

Here's the question the Steelers and other prospective suitors in free agency must determine: Did defenses figure out Mike Wallace finally as the one-trick pony that Mike Tomlin long declared he was? Wallace is at his best running the "go" routes and outside flag patterns, where he has a chance to outrun someone. However, when faced with cover two defenses and safeties hanging deep, he's not as effective. He does not seem to fight for the ball at times and even gives up on some when covered.

During this slump by Wallace in the second half of the season, Antonio Brown emerged like a Jeremy Lin. He clearly was the team's best receiver in the second half of the season. Curiously, Brown's rise should have helped Wallace because Brown's best asset is taking a short to medium range pass and running with it.

Maybe all the final eight games and one playoff game merely was a slump for Wallace and he will return to the kind of production he had in the first half of 2011. But as teams turn on the tape, they have to be surprised at the difference between the first half Wallace and the second half Wallace of 2011.

Onto some stuff:

-- YOU: Just wondering, never looked at it this way until now... if Wallace was offered a contract by another team, which he does not want to play for, does he have a choice to reject the contract and work something out with the Steelers? Or do the Steelers have to match that offer regardless? If they can't match the offer, would Wallace be forced to play for that team even if he did not want to accept the offer, kindof like a trade?

ME: Wallace would have to sign a contract before it goes into effect. The large majority of RFAs are never offered contracts, but if they are they certainly do not have to sign them. They can ignore offers and simply return to the Steelers, accept their one-year RFA tender or negotiate a multi-year deal.

-- YOU: What is Colon's status? Will he be healthy enough to play next year? If so do you think he'll renegotiate his deal to a more cap friendly and lower number (not just turning salary into signing bonus) so that he can stay with the team? I know he's right with Ben so maybe he'll give the team a little discount to hang around.

ME: Colon has recovered and is ready to return to play. I would be surprised if Colon gave the team a "discount" or paycut. He turned down a better offer from the Chicago Bears last summer to stay with the Steelers. With Max Starks a UFA with an ACL rehab, the Steelers will move Marcus Gilbert to left tackle. They need Colon and can go elsewhere to find someone who may be willing to take a paycut.

-- YOU: Not that I really care about the purported standoff between Ben and TH, but I am curious how these things work at HQ. Has Todd Haley had a formal meeting with his staff..........WR coach, TE coach, OL coach, etc. and Randy Fichtner? Lost in all this quasi-drama is Fichtner getting caught in the middle......especially after not getting the OC position. Do you get a chance to speak with Fichtner and has he been speaking with both Ben and Haley?

ME: Haley has met all of his coaches and some of the players including at least one quarterback, Charlie Batch. He still has not met Ben R. Fichtner is a good soldier and I assume he will work together with Haley.

--YOU: Worst case scenario on Mike Wallace – the Steelers can’t sign him to a long-term contract, do the appropriate RFA tender, and he gets some outrageous payday offer from a team like the 49ers or Patriots (both of which are in dire need of a deep threat) that the Steelers just cannot match. That would give the Steelers a very late 1st round pick (#30 or 31), which would appear to be poor value for Wallace. Do you know if the Steelers think this is a real concern?

ME: The Steelers are aware that scenario is possible.

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/inde ... lace-worth (http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php/pro-sports/steelers/114962-ed-what-is-mike-wallace-worth)

steelz09
02-21-2012, 12:04 PM
What is Limas Sweed doing these days? :)

He may be getting a phone call.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-21-2012, 12:16 PM
What is Limas Sweed doing these days? :)

He may be getting a phone call.

OH Jesus...Now you went it done it!

Captain Lemming
02-21-2012, 12:17 PM
[quote="Captain Lemming":3hrl5uv6] If there is no cap I agree completely we are better with Wallace if you do not factor in that limitation. You dump all those guys and you still gotta pay bodies for those positions. You can get under the cap but do you clear enough to pay Wallace his market value? If you do clear that much dough and give it all to our deepest position is that wise?

Our entire interior defense is glutted.

In my plan we tender but lose Wallace but still have a "good" (not great) stable of receivers but add a draft pick.

Grab one of several probowl guards available with Walace's money.

Now we can draft BOTH an inside LBer and a NT in the first. No need to waste a pick on a 1st round olineman. Combine one of our firsts and second to get make on of our picks an elite choice in round one.

I have strenthened 3 positions in the process with first round talent, while giving up one player at our deepest position.

Look at your draft. We still get your number one Poe. We can easily add Hightower rather than your third rounder at inside LBer and can get a proven beast as a free agent guard rather than your second rounder.

We have good not great receivers, but our overall team talent takes a huge leap forward.
So let me get this straight...you want to tender Wallace 2.5 and sign a pro bowl G come FA that will run in the 7 mil range. So the cap was your reasoning for not tagging Wallace at 9.5 but you somehow can come up with the money in your scenario? You will have to clear the money at the start so where you finding this cap space without cutting the same guys I listed? You said give money to deepest position. Well now you created a 7 mil G with a 5.7 mil RT. You have Pouncey who will get done early and be one of the highest paid interior guys. Gilbert to LT with a good 2012 may get him a new deal early. Long term forecast does not suit signing a high price FA G. They will have to address OL via draft. To be honest, I don't expect them to do anything in FA until after June 1st besides working on their own.

My cuts have to be made. I'm not gutting anything that isn't already gutted. Hampton won't be available. Smith is not a starter and may be done period. Farrior and Foote are trade offs playing at backup levels. OnE can remain. It's dead money on stale players that needs to be applied elsewhere. Kemo and Ward are cap eaters that have or will be replaced no matter what happens so there money is shifting. I'm not gutting purely to get money to retain a premier player. I'm gutting based upon lack of performance and their cap number. If they weren't in cap trouble...The same bodeis must go.

Draft well. That is what the Steelers have done and will continue to do. Wallace gets his long term deal and next man up where the cuts came. The Steelers have some in place to hold down the spot if needed. The Steelers will always have the option after draft signings to get the bargain FA if they need to fill holes.

Bottom line is keep your own. That has been the standard for their player products. No issues with Wallace so he is their kind of player to keep long term. Cap is going to make it difficult but believe me...It is their mission. It is going to be ugly for the sympathetic Steeler fan come June 1st. They are trying to restructure everyone they can to hold out on cuts to spread out the dead money after June 1st.

I was a Steeler fan long before the likes of Ward, Hampton, Smith, Farrior, etc came along and I will be a fan long after. The door slammed shut in Denver. Why do I think it is coming and why did the door slam shut? BA out and a new OC. It isn't a matter of "when" it is happening...It is a matter of how fast they can get back to the same level with the young guys in place. I'm actually optimistic that it will be in 2012. There is only one position on that list that may create some growing pains out of the gate but I expect it to turn around early in the season. If they do decide to cut both Farrior & Foote there will be a transition. Not on production stand point because I believe everyone on that list can be out performed by someone on this roster. From a field general standpoint. That is why I think they may keep one to give them time to groom the rookie. Timmons will eventually settle in but making the pre-snap adjustments will be something he will grow into quickly.[/quote:3hrl5uv6]

Let me clarify. I said:
"If there is no cap I agree completely we are better with Wallace if you do not factor in that limitation. You dump all those guys and you still gotta pay bodies for those positions. You can get under the cap but do you clear enough to pay Wallace his market value? "

My point here is it will be difficult to do regardless of whether we cut these guys. It is clear that you understand "this" part but your entire response is based on this part. However the rest of my post is based on the assumption that WE CAN clear enough money to pay Wallace his money by cutting these guys. Look at what I said:

"If you do clear that much dough and give it all to our deepest position is that wise?

This presupposes all the cuts you suggest. It is not about saving anybody. If we cut those guys we have been gutted. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO REPLACE THEM WITH? We can pay Wallace the big bucks and replace TWO one time starter caliber inside LBers with a third round pick, or we can get one of Colberts top choices at the position.

You say "draft well". That is my point. It is easier to "draft well" the higher you draft. Your plan involves getting a second level talent at inside LB, mine gets us an elite LB. You want to search the dumpsters for free agents nobody wants when I suggest getting a proven talent to bolster our oline. While we dont frequently go for high end free agent route we have historically done it for olinemen who other than elite LTs tend to be good values.

This team was an effective passing team with Hines and AB, it will be fine. We wont be Green Bay level but we will be fine. Our interior offense and defense can be made much more robust if we let Wallace be signed away.

Slapstick
02-21-2012, 12:24 PM
The problem is, once Wallace is lost, WR is not the deepest position any longer...

Wallace = RFA
Brown = Pro Bowler
Sanders = ?
Hines = ? or cap casualty
Cotchery = UFA

steelz09
02-21-2012, 12:40 PM
How much $$ could the Steelers save if we cut Colon?

If the rehab is going well, I would still keep Starks at LT and Gilbert at RT. Against everyone's wishes, the Steelers think Colon is a good RT. I've seen a rookie (i.e. Gilbert) play better than Colon in his best year.

Colon is another guy is that is overpaid. I would sacrifice Colon in a second to keep Wallace. The only question is...... Max Starks' health. One thing that surprise me about Starks.... he just turned 30. I thought he was older than that but I guess not.

Oviedo
02-21-2012, 12:43 PM
The problem is, once Wallace is lost, WR is not the deepest position any longer...

Wallace = RFA
Brown = Pro Bowler
Sanders = ?
Hines = ? or cap casualty
Cotchery = UFA


Good point, however if you lose Wallace you are getting a second #1 in return which means you canb get a pretty good WR in the draft.

I also think that if Wallace goes there will be a genuine effort to resign Cotchery.

Slapstick
02-21-2012, 01:04 PM
The problem is, once Wallace is lost, WR is not the deepest position any longer...

Wallace = RFA
Brown = Pro Bowler
Sanders = ?
Hines = ? or cap casualty
Cotchery = UFA


Good point, however if you lose Wallace you are getting a second #1 in return which means you can get a pretty good WR in the draft.

You might get a pretty good WR in the draft...you might not...

I would rather not lose Wallace, but I understand the reality of the salary cap...

I have a difficult time believing that there is a team this year who will pony up a huge contract AND a 1st round draft pick...

Teams that would are either close enough to the cap that they can't or they have already traded away their 1st round pick...

phillyesq
02-21-2012, 01:04 PM
How much $$ could the Steelers save if we cut Colon?

If the rehab is going well, I would still keep Starks at LT and Gilbert at RT. Against everyone's wishes, the Steelers think Colon is a good RT. I've seen a rookie (i.e. Gilbert) play better than Colon in his best year.

Colon is another guy is that is overpaid. I would sacrifice Colon in a second to keep Wallace. The only question is...... Max Starks' health. One thing that surprise me about Starks.... he just turned 30. I thought he was older than that but I guess not.

Very little is saved by cutting Colon because his bonus would accelerate to the cap this year. I would think that next year is likely the earliest he can be cut.

RuthlessBurgher
02-21-2012, 02:19 PM
How much $$ could the Steelers save if we cut Colon?

Not an option anymore: http://www.planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=20387

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
02-21-2012, 02:41 PM
Let me clarify. I said:
"If there is no cap I agree completely we are better with Wallace if you do not factor in that limitation. You dump all those guys and you still gotta pay bodies for those positions. You can get under the cap but do you clear enough to pay Wallace his market value? "

My point here is it will be difficult to do regardless of whether we cut these guys. It is clear that you understand "this" part but your entire response is based on this part. However the rest of my post is based on the assumption that WE CAN clear enough money to pay Wallace his money by cutting these guys. Look at what I said:

"If you do clear that much dough and give it all to our deepest position is that wise?

This presupposes all the cuts you suggest. It is not about saving anybody. If we cut those guys we have been gutted. WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO REPLACE THEM WITH? We can pay Wallace the big bucks and replace TWO one time starter caliber inside LBers with a third round pick, or we can get one of Colberts top choices at the position.

You say "draft well". That is my point. It is easier to "draft well" the higher you draft. Your plan involves getting a second level talent at inside LB, mine gets us an elite LB. You want to search the dumpsters for free agents nobody wants when I suggest getting a proven talent to bolster our oline. While we dont frequently go for high end free agent route we have historically done it for olinemen who other than elite LTs tend to be good values.

This team was an effective passing team with Hines and AB, it will be fine. We wont be Green Bay level but we will be fine. Our interior offense and defense can be made much more robust if we let Wallace be signed away.

What you said was tender Wallace and sign a Pro Bowl G. My question was where do you expect to get the money? "Your Plan" as you state would be doing the same "gutting" you say my cuts would impose. That would be the only way possible. You didn't say anywhere those cuts were in your plan and made reference to the defense being gutted. One would assume you were opposed based on your "gutted" comment. So your plan looked liked it wasn't based on any salary cap restrictions. I miss understood what you wrote based on what was there. That being said, Letting Wallace go in your scenario leaves you with AB & Sanders. They won't have Ward & won't be able to afford Cotchery. So you have AB & Sanders with rookies or the "future contract" players they signed. They went from great to good starters with no proven depth behind them. Hope there isn't an injury. So you gutted a WR group on an offense that struggled to score points with a new OC for 2012. Bad plan in my opinion.

Those cuts are coming regardless. You said it best, "One time starters". The defense is gutted because of age, cap number, and drop in production. It isn't a gutting to make room for Wallace. No room for their cap numbers playing at back-up levels. I did say in my respose one may stay. I would hope it is Foote. They may feel SS or Ivy can step in but we don't know. I don't think they are. Hampton WILL NOT be a starter anyway. Smith is done. So replacing 2 starters would be worst case. If Foote remains...He starts until rookie can go. McClendon is you temporary fix until the rookie moves ahead in the rotation.

All the other cuts have already been replaced on the field. Some have issues replacing them in their hearts. Their run is done and there are others in line for their coin. The next run for the Steelers is right in front of them if they make these moves and the FO knows it.

What I did is keep the youth at the strongest position while injecting youth where the cuts were made. Regardless of a 1st or 3rd round ILB...The draft pick is an upgrade over what is in place. I don't want a high profile 27-29 year old OL in his last contract. I want a rookie OG who can start and only be a cap hit for the next 3 years under & around 1 mi who will be around for maybe 10 years. I don't want any street FA. I want to keep the guys we invested in.

I would hope they don't have to sign any FA and I didn't say that was my preference. I said it is what the Steelers do. They wait until the end of FA and after the draft and if there is a position they are concerned with they sign a player at a discount. If the draft falls the way they hope and they get their UDFA of position they won't look at street FA. To sit here and say let Wallace walk and sign a Pro Bowl OG with his money given their cap situation makes no sense. If they can't afford Wallace they can't afford a top tier OG.

Your plan doesn't result in a "huge leap forward" of talent. There isn't a plan possible given the situation. The Steelers will have to draft well & re-tool through the draft. There is nothing saying a Glenn or Washington wouldn't be a better option than a 7 mil Pro Bowl G. They would be alot cheaper and be here for a long term. The trade off of a better pick at ILB for Wallace is a loss for the Steelers. The will have to address WR early and the top three of AB, Sanders, & "any name you want to put here" isn't better than Wallace, AB, & Sanders.

You keep referring to "my plan" based at looking at my mock. Well "my plan" has Wallace locked up long term. It has Ward, Kemo, Smith, Hampton, Farrior, & Allen out. I expect Washington to start by week 1 and Poe to take over by mid season. Bradham starting is not being relied on. If he beats out Foote at some point in 2012 that is a bonus. I didn't weaken any position for the benefit to strengthen another. I added talent to depleted positions through the draft while keeping the elite position on this team intact on the side of the ball that needs to score more points & hired a new OC.

Just to touch on ILB...There is no "Willis" in this draft and the drop off at ILB in the 1st three rounds is tight. ILB is one of those positions that slide after the elite are off the board and there isn't an elite prospect. You have a tackling machine, a possible 2 down stud, and the shadow of an elite ILB who's onfield behavior & sub-par 2011 will drop him into the 2nd. There is a good chance like any year where a guy like Hightower ends up being selected in the top part of the 2nd round. You have a class of 3 down ILBs with good value in rounds 2-3.

hawaiiansteel
03-05-2012, 09:49 PM
Mike Wallace can be yours for a first-round pick

Posted by Michael David Smith on March 5, 2012

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/x6107.jpg?w=172

The Steelers made official what was widely expected today, declining to place the franchise tag on restricted free agent wide receiver Mike Wallace.

That means that any team can sign Wallace to an offer sheet, and if the cap-strapped Steelers don’t match the offer, Wallace will cost only one first-round draft pick. Acquiring a 25-year-old who’s arguably the best deep threat in the NFL for a first-round draft pick isn’t a bad deal at all, especially if there’s a playoff contender that believes a big-play receiver is just the thing they need to win the Super Bowl.

For the Steelers, matching a lucrative offer to Wallace would be tough. Although they’ve made several moves in the last week to free up salary cap space, they’re still not in great cap shape. And they’re in a tough spot because they know they’ll face the same situation again next year when receiver Antonio Brown becomes a restricted free agent. Brown was voted the Steelers’ MVP in 2011, and the Steelers would like to keep him beyond 2012, the final year of his current contract. If they tie up a lot of money and cap space in a new contract for Wallace this year, it may be harder to find the money and cap space to devote to Brown next year.

If Wallace ultimately just signs his one-year tender offer as a restricted free agent, he’ll come at a very affordable price of $2.7 million. But in that scenario, Wallace and Brown would both be free agents at this time next year. (Steelers receiver Emmanuel Sanders becomes a restricted free agent next year, too.)

Add it all up, and the Steelers may decide that matching an offer for Wallace isn’t in the cards, and that they’ll be glad to take a first-round draft pick from the team that signs him. At the moment, however, Steelers G.M. Kevin Colbert is stressing that it’s up to the Steelers.

“He could get offer from another team, but ultimately we get to make the decision on Mike,” Colbert said on Steelers.com today.

Of course, the Steelers already made one decision, not to franchise Wallace. But Colbert said that with the Steelers’ cap situation, the franchise tag is just not a realistic option.

“We don’t have the cap room of having the luxury of using the franchise tag this season,” Colbert said.

If he does get an offer from another team, which team would it be? One of the most intriguing possibilities is New England. The Patriots’ first-round pick is a low one (No. 31 overall), so they may not think it’s a lot to give up to give Tom Brady a speedy receiver like Wallace. And the Patriots have two first-round picks (they acquired the Saints’ first-rounder in a trade last year), so they could still be players on draft day if they give their own first-round pick away. Plus, the Patriots wouldn’t mind taking one of the best offensive players away from one of their biggest AFC rivals.

There’s also been chatter in San Francisco that the 49ers would love to add Wallace to their receiving corps. With the 30th pick in the first round of the draft, the 49ers are another team that could decide that Wallace will be far more productive than any rookie they could add this year.

In any event, every team with a need at receiver has to be thinking about signing Wallace to an offer sheet. And the Steelers have to be thinking that their top receiver in 2011 may be gone in 2012.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... ound-pick/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/05/mike-wallace-can-be-yours-for-a-first-round-pick/)

Slapstick
03-06-2012, 10:11 AM
The Pats officially put the franchise tag on Welker...

That makes the likelihood of a Patriots offer much less likely, IMHO...

hawaiiansteel
03-06-2012, 10:54 PM
Why Wallace wasn't tagged


It was a move that had been anticipated, and at the close of business on Monday, March 5, it became official. The Steelers declined to use their franchise tag on any of the pending free agents, and General Manager Kevin Colbert explained why that decision was made.

“That is where we are from a cap standpoint,” said Colbert. “When you use a franchise tag at whatever position it is, it’s significant dollars you have to account for and in our current cap situation we just don’t have that type of room.”

The Steelers could have used the franchise tag on any of their unrestricted or restricted free agents. The list of unrestricted free agents includes Charlie Batch, Byron Leftwich and Dennis Dixon, Mewelde Moore, Jerricho Cotchery, Trai Essex, Max Starks, William Gay and Daniel Sepulveda. The list of restricted free agents includes David Johnson, Mike Wallace, Doug Legursky, Ramon Foster, Jamon Meredith and Ryan Mundy.

Seen as the most likely player to be tagged from those lists was Wallace, but no restricted free agent carrying a first-round tender has signed an offer sheet in the last 10 years league-wide. The franchise figure for wide receivers is going to be in the neighborhood of $9.4 million, while the first-round tender figure is about $2.7 million.

“There is no choice,” said Colbert. “Mike will get a tender that would require a team having to give us a first-round pick if he signs with them and we choose not to match it. We understand there could be offers that come in. Mike is a significant player. Ultimately it’s our decision whether or not we are going to match an offer (that he might get). We still have control over the situation, even though he could get offers from the outside. Ultimately we’ll make the decision whether Mike is going to be a Steeler or not.”

But Colbert reiterated that the Steelers are very interested in keeping Wallace.

“We want Mike to finish his career here,” said Colbert. “That will factor into our decision. You have the same right of first refusal on any offer he gets. If he was franchised, you would have to account for a significantly higher amount under your cap, which means we would have had to cut more players. You have to weigh that against the chances you’re going to have to match whatever kind of offer he gets.

“Using the franchise tag was an option, but we decided not to.”

http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/ ... e3cca8e47c (http://www.steelers.com/news/article-1/Why-Wallace-wasnt-tagged/d875fdd8-f306-4c7f-a4e9-fce3cca8e47c)