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View Full Version : Would you trade Big Ben?



isonator07
02-12-2012, 10:32 PM
It looks like the Peyton era in Indy is over. Arians is in Indy now. We all know how close Ben and Arians are. What if we could get the #1 pick in the draft for Ben? Would you do it?

What if we could go get Peyton Manning once he is cut? We could use the first pick as trade bait. We would for sure need to address the OL in this case. My guess is we could get the browns 2 first round picks for the #1 overall. That would give us the #4, #22, and #24 picks.

Just a thought. I don't know the trade value of the #1 overall (or the rest of the picks throughout the draft). If that is a logical return for the #1 overall, would you do it?

Sugar
02-12-2012, 10:46 PM
Nope. Ben is the last current Steelers player I would ever trade.

grotonsteel
02-12-2012, 10:59 PM
Ben for washed up QB and few college players who have never played in NFL?? No Way.

Ben is the most important player on Steelers team.

MicroBioSteel
02-12-2012, 11:32 PM
My price for Ben would be 2 consecutive first round pics plus 3 consecutive 2nd rounders. Every player has a price including Franchise QBs. That would be my price.

Mister Pittsburgh
02-12-2012, 11:41 PM
Has Ben really done anything wrong this offseason. He had an offensive coordinator he liked working with & they went to three Superbowls together. Ben was comfy in his situation.

Arians has mentioned retiring the past couple seasons. Art II maybe thought it a wise move to bring in a new OC at the point in Ben & the offense situations. You figure We have a good crew of WR & Ben plus Heath signed for the time being. Would it be better to stick with Arians for the next season or two, then hr retires and we are at this point of a new OC, or we pull the plug now & bring in z new guy, get an offense set up this season & see what happens.

People act like Haley & Ben are going to start brawling on the sideline & the two haven't even met. They are going to be fine. I predict good things.

isonator07
02-12-2012, 11:51 PM
Has Ben really done anything wrong this offseason. He had an offensive coordinator he liked working with & they went to three Superbowls together. Ben was comfy in his situation.

Arians has mentioned retiring the past couple seasons. Art II maybe thought it a wise move to bring in a new OC at the point in Ben & the offense situations. You figure We have a good crew of WR & Ben plus Heath signed for the time being. Would it be better to stick with Arians for the next season or two, then hr retires and we are at this point of a new OC, or we pull the plug now & bring in z new guy, get an offense set up this season & see what happens.

People act like Haley & Ben are going to start brawling on the sideline & the two haven't even met. They are going to be fine. I predict good things.


I'm not jumping ship on Ben. I don't expect any major problems between him and Haley. Having 3 picks in the top 24 could go a long way. I think the type of qb Manning is (was) could utilize our WR's, maybe better than Ben.

If Manning is done then I would never consider it. I just don't think Manning is done. In my scenario we could end up with Manning, Decastro, Glenn, Poe.

D Rock
02-12-2012, 11:57 PM
Allow me to play devil's advocate here...

Ben will turn 30 very soon. He gets hit A TON and the injuries are mounting more and more every year. His best years will not last much longer. At that point, the Steelers have no back up plan and are unlikely to be in position to draft a game breaker at QB unless they have an absolutely awful season that we all have to endure.

Unloading him for the 1st overall pick, which without his buddy Bruce being involved in would have no chance at happening otherwise, would allow the Steelers to get Andrew Luck, an incredible prospect as a prototype quarterback. Rookies have a salary scale, so Luck wont cost as much as he would have a few years ago. Unloading Ben could greatly help the salary cap situation, too, I would imagine.

Lots of vet players need to be unloaded in the very near future. It's not a full-on rebuilding year, but it is certainly one of change. Steeler Nation has been very fortunate to experience 3 recent Super Bowls, winning 2 of them. If five years from now Ben is gone, and there is no young gun to step in, than a run like that likely doesn't happen again for quite a while. On the other hand, if Luck is as good as advertised, the Steelers have a chance to run off another 3 Super Bowls or more over the next 10 years.


Ben for the Colts 1 and 2 this year and 2 and 3 next year. I would certainly think long and hard about pulling the trigger. It hurts the team this year, but possibly sets them up for the next 10 to 15.

isonator07
02-13-2012, 12:05 AM
Allow me to play devil's advocate here...

Ben will turn 30 very soon. He gets hit A TON and the injuries are mounting more and more every year. His best years will not last much longer. At that point, the Steelers have no back up plan and are unlikely to be in position to draft a game breaker at QB unless they have an absolutely awful season that we all have to endure.

Unloading him for the 1st overall pick, which without his buddy Bruce being involved in would have no chance at happening otherwise, would allow the Steelers to get Andrew Luck, an incredible prospect as a prototype quarterback. Rookies have a salary scale, so Luck wont cost as much as he would have a few years ago. Unloading Ben could greatly help the salary cap situation, too, I would imagine.

Lots of vet players need to be unloaded in the very near future. It's not a full-on rebuilding year, but it is certainly one of change. Steeler Nation has been very fortunate to experience 3 recent Super Bowls, winning 2 of them. If five years from now Ben is gone, and there is no young gun to step in, than a run like that likely doesn't happen again for quite a while. On the other hand, if Luck is as good as advertised, the Steelers have a chance to run off another 3 Super Bowls or more over the next 10 years.


Ben for the Colts 1 and 2 this year and 2 and 3 next year. I would certainly think long and hard about pulling the trigger. It hurts the team this year, but possibly sets them up for the next 10 to 15.

Good point on the cap savings.

RuthlessBurgher
02-13-2012, 12:05 AM
It's a pipe dream, but if the Colts were willing to part with the #1 overall pick for Roethlisberger, you don't turn around and trade the #1 pick to the Browns for their two picks (why would you want to hand a potential elite level QB to a division rival?), even if you could get Peyton (who is entering his late 30's and is on his last legs with multiple neck surgeries). You take Andrew Luck and don't look back. Ben's turning 30 in a few weeks and has had countless injuries (at his current pace, who knows how many more years his body has left in it). Meanwhile, Luck is 22...a young QB who would be able to grow with this young WR corps for his whole career. If we are lucky, we may have a half dozen more years worth of Ben...could potentially have triple that with Luck. Just ridiculous conjecture though...the Colts wouldn't trade the Luck pick for anything at this point, just like the Penguins wouldn't trade the Crosby pick for anything when they won that draft lottery.

Captain Lemming
02-13-2012, 12:33 AM
the Colts wouldn't trade the Luck pick for anything at this point, just like the Penguins wouldn't trade the Crosby pick for anything when they won that draft lottery.

Agreed.
We are a year away from having been in the SB and are a CURRENT SB contender. The Colts are not going to a SB with Ben. This is not to say I'd have no price. But the price will not be acceptable to the Colts because they ARE in rebuilding mode.

Ben has greater value to a contender than the Colts. Even a staight-up trade for the number one and nothing else makes no sense for the Colts. They are better off going with the kid.

hawaiiansteel
02-13-2012, 02:39 AM
no, I wouldn't.

Ben is a winner and has another couple of Super Bowl victories still left in him as a Pittsburgh Steeler!! :tt2 :tt2

Snatch98
02-13-2012, 02:58 AM
Absolutely not. Insane to even discuss it AND certainly not for Peyton Manning.

7 UP
02-13-2012, 07:28 AM
Absolutely not. Insane to even discuss it AND certainly not for Peyton Manning.

:Agree Thank you. Im glad to see not everyone is insane.

Discipline of Steel
02-13-2012, 08:16 AM
no, I wouldn't.

Ben is a winner and has another couple of Super Bowl victories still left in him as a Pittsburgh Steeler!! :tt2 :tt2

Yes, this idea is like trading Terry Bradshaw after Super Bowl XII.

steelblood
02-13-2012, 08:38 AM
I don't know. I'd think about that. It would help our cap problems and Luck may be good very quickly. He is tough, durable, and much younger. I probably would not do it. But, if Ben was still complaining about Arians and firing off warnings about changing the offense, I'd consider it. I think Luck would be a fan favorite here and would be quite good.

SidSmythe
02-13-2012, 09:42 AM
I think BEN has 1 more Superbowl ring coming ... not sure if any college QB or Peyton Manning can convince me they have 1 more coming.

phillyesq
02-13-2012, 09:50 AM
If the Steelers FO was absolutely convinced that Andrew Luck will live up to and exceed his billing, then yes, I would consider trading Ben for the #1 overall. As Ruthless mentioned, you could easily get 15 years out of Luck. From the Colts perspective, I can't see why they would do that deal.

Anything less than Luck, and I'll pass. Ben has his flaws, as do just about all players, but he always gives you a chance to win when he is healthy. Before you think too hard about trading Ben, watch the highlights of the 95 Super Bowl. Or any other game between Bradshaw and Ben.

feltdizz
02-13-2012, 10:13 AM
I'm not a Luck fan... but if I was the GM I think I would have to sleep on it. It's similar to the Favre/Rodgers and Montana/Young scenario's....

Ben isn't getting any younger and he doesn't play a style that will lengthen his career. If I think I can get 1 more from Ben vs 3 more with Luck how do you automatically say no to a trade?

The Man of Steel
02-13-2012, 10:16 AM
I always prefer our star players to retire as Steelers whenever possible so it's a resounding 'no' for me.

pittpete
02-13-2012, 10:36 AM
Put Andrew Luck behind this o-line and it would take him years to recover from the shellshock

You dont trade your 29 year old franchise QB unless you are in a rebuilding era.

Brady is 34,Drew Brees is 33 and there's no talk of trading either of them, nor would they
Aaron Rodgers is 1 year younger than Ben.

This is why Rooney suggested Bens game needs tweaking

JDSteeler
02-13-2012, 10:52 AM
It looks like the Peyton era in Indy is over. Arians is in Indy now. We all know how close Ben and Arians are. What if we could get the #1 pick in the draft for Ben? Would you do it?

What if we could go get Peyton Manning once he is cut? We could use the first pick as trade bait. We would for sure need to address the OL in this case. My guess is we could get the browns 2 first round picks for the #1 overall. That would give us the #4, #22, and #24 picks.

Just a thought. I don't know the trade value of the #1 overall (or the rest of the picks throughout the draft). If that is a logical return for the #1 overall, would you do it?

Dude, who are you??

JD

RuthlessBurgher
02-13-2012, 11:16 AM
Put Andrew Luck behind this o-line and it would take him years to recover from the shellshock

You dont trade your 29 year old franchise QB unless you are in a rebuilding era.

Brady is 34,Drew Brees is 33 and there's no talk of trading either of them, nor would they
Aaron Rodgers is 1 year younger than Ben.

This is why Rooney suggested Bens game needs tweaking

There is no real talk of trading Ben either...just hypothetical message board conjecture now that the boring offseason is officially here. As for your "nor would they" statement about Brady and Brees, I think New England would trade a 34 year old Brady for a 22 year old Luck right now. Same thing with New Orleans swapping a 33 year old Brees for a 22 year old Luck. Again, think about how many years you are likely to get out of Brady or Brees from this point forward vs. how much longer you would get out of Andrew Luck (assuming you think he is the next stud, which most do). Rodgers is still in his 20's and just entering the prime of his career without any major injury concerns, so no to that one.

pittpete
02-13-2012, 12:17 PM
There is no guarantee Andrew Luck will be a successfull NFL QB nevermind a superstar QB.
Just ask the Cleveland Browns :lol:

Dee Dub
02-13-2012, 12:38 PM
The number 1 overall pick for a two time Super Bowl Champ and 3 time AFC Champ who is in his prime is not a fair deal for the Steelers.

I wouldn't trade Ben for two number one picks.

RuthlessBurgher
02-13-2012, 01:27 PM
There is no guarantee Andrew Luck will be a successfull NFL QB nevermind a superstar QB.
Just ask the Cleveland Browns :lol:

Tim Couch is to Andrew Luck as Dan Quayle is to John F. Kennedy.

("Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy, I knew Jack Kennedy, Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy" - Senator Lloyd Bentsen, in a debate with Quayle). :P

Shoe
02-13-2012, 01:53 PM
Allow me to play devil's advocate here...

Ben will turn 30 very soon. He gets hit A TON and the injuries are mounting more and more every year. His best years will not last much longer. At that point, the Steelers have no back up plan and are unlikely to be in position to draft a game breaker at QB unless they have an absolutely awful season that we all have to endure.

Unloading him for the 1st overall pick, which without his buddy Bruce being involved in would have no chance at happening otherwise, would allow the Steelers to get Andrew Luck, an incredible prospect as a prototype quarterback. Rookies have a salary scale, so Luck wont cost as much as he would have a few years ago. Unloading Ben could greatly help the salary cap situation, too, I would imagine.

Lots of vet players need to be unloaded in the very near future. It's not a full-on rebuilding year, but it is certainly one of change. Steeler Nation has been very fortunate to experience 3 recent Super Bowls, winning 2 of them. If five years from now Ben is gone, and there is no young gun to step in, than a run like that likely doesn't happen again for quite a while. On the other hand, if Luck is as good as advertised, the Steelers have a chance to run off another 3 Super Bowls or more over the next 10 years.


Ben for the Colts 1 and 2 this year and 2 and 3 next year. I would certainly think long and hard about pulling the trigger. It hurts the team this year, but possibly sets them up for the next 10 to 15.

Yes--devil's advocate here, he's not the type who is "untradeable". The type of guy you don't want to trade is the ascending superstar type of player... Ben has already compiled Hall of Fame credentials as far as I'm concerned. Once someone attains a certain level, it's at least fair you've achieved the best you'll get from that player. IOW, it's conceivable that we've seen the best we'll ever see from Ben. In fact, that's probably the case.

Now, that's not to say he's not "elite" or that he can't play as such for years more... it's just looking at the situation from a macro PoV. You bring up all legit points. I would not to do it, because I'm risk averse and prefer sticking with what I have, what I know. I know Ben is a stud. And I know we already have the components (with some minor tinkering) to be SB contenders. Getting rid of him (for lots of picks) is very risky.

isonator07
02-13-2012, 04:32 PM
Put Andrew Luck behind this o-line and it would take him years to recover from the shellshock

You dont trade your 29 year old franchise QB unless you are in a rebuilding era.

Brady is 34,Drew Brees is 33 and there's no talk of trading either of them, nor would they
Aaron Rodgers is 1 year younger than Ben.

This is why Rooney suggested Bens game needs tweaking

There is no real talk of trading Ben either...just hypothetical message board conjecture now that the boring offseason is officially here. As for your "nor would they" statement about Brady and Brees, I think New England would trade a 34 year old Brady for a 22 year old Luck right now. Same thing with New Orleans swapping a 33 year old Brees for a 22 year old Luck. Again, think about how many years you are likely to get out of Brady or Brees from this point forward vs. how much longer you would get out of Andrew Luck (assuming you think he is the next stud, which most do). Rodgers is still in his 20's and just entering the prime of his career without any major injury concerns, so no to that one.

That sums it up. I was just throwing it out there. I thought it would be a fun discussion.

SteelTorch
02-13-2012, 05:22 PM
It looks like the Peyton era in Indy is over. Arians is in Indy now. We all know how close Ben and Arians are. What if we could get the #1 pick in the draft for Ben? Would you do it?

What if we could go get Peyton Manning once he is cut? We could use the first pick as trade bait. We would for sure need to address the OL in this case. My guess is we could get the browns 2 first round picks for the #1 overall. That would give us the #4, #22, and #24 picks.

Just a thought. I don't know the trade value of the #1 overall (or the rest of the picks throughout the draft). If that is a logical return for the #1 overall, would you do it?
Interesting post. How should I put this?

No, no, no, not a chance, no way, no, never, no, and above all, NO.

BradshawsHairdresser
02-13-2012, 05:30 PM
We can discuss trading Ben ad nauseum, but the Steelers AIN'T doing it...NO WAY!

fezziwig
02-13-2012, 06:22 PM
Nope, Ben is the real deal and no one to second guess. Who is to say that Luck is going to be a hit in the NFL ?
I agree with you guys when you say, Ben and Haley are proffesionals and I see great things coming in the very near future for our offense and team.

We are just a couple of o-linemen from being a terrific offense with Haley at the helm. Even with the current crew of o-linemen Haley, can make this offense the huge success they always should have been. Ben and Haley will get along as soon as they start winning.


I hope the Steeler organization has learned one thing from all this. " DON'T WAIT ANOTHER 20 YEARS TO DRAFT A QUARTERBACK AT NUMBER ONE !!!!!!!!!!!!

D Rock
02-13-2012, 07:53 PM
Nope, Ben is the real deal and no one to second guess. Who is to say that Luck is going to be a hit in the NFL ?
I agree with you guys when you say, Ben and Haley are proffesionals and I see great things coming in the very near future for our offense and team.

We are just a couple of o-linemen from being a terrific offense with Haley at the helm. Even with the current crew of o-linemen Haley, can make this offense the huge success they always should have been. Ben and Haley will get along as soon as they start winning.


I hope the Steeler organization has learned one thing from all this. " DON'T WAIT ANOTHER 20 YEARS TO DRAFT A QUARTERBACK AT NUMBER ONE !!!!!!!!!!!!

Perfect reason to acquire the Colts pick and take Andrew Luck, no?


The more I think about it, the more I would do it, even if it was just Ben for the #1 overall and nothing else. I'm content in that the Steelers have had a great run lately...content enough to take a chance at making that run last another 15 years!

If it backfires then it backfires. At least the team has great recent success to still enjoy. I like to take risks. I would pull the trigger.




(In Madden)

williar
02-13-2012, 09:45 PM
I sure would. I'd hold out for a first and second round picks this year and the same next year. If the bengals could get as much as they did for C. Palmer than I would think I could get at least that much for Ben. It would be a dream scenario for me if I was the GM.

I would immediately use those picks to rebuild my offense. I figure like always, as long as we maintain a solid, shut-down defense the steelers will still be the steelers.

Now again, how many points did the steelers average last year? Let's just say around 17 ppg. Where did our offense rank last season? Let's just say somewhere around in the middle of the pack. I don't think it would be too hard to replace or more likely, exceed that offensive production with a new QB.

Dresden
02-14-2012, 12:17 AM
The Colts would never trade their selection (and for all intents and purposes Luck) for Roethlisberger.

Dude, it's only a percentage of the Steeler Nation that actually believes that Roethlisberger is elite when they say that nonsense. Colts fans would nearly riot in Indianapolis :lol:

phillyesq
02-14-2012, 09:20 AM
The Colts would never trade their selection (and for all intents and purposes Luck) for Roethlisberger.

Dude, it's only a percentage of the Steeler Nation that actually believes that Roethlisberger is elite when they say that nonsense. Colts fans would nearly riot in Indianapolis :lol:

The move doesn't make sense for the Colts, who look nowhere near being able to compete now. But I don't see the knock on Ben. He's one of a small group of active QBs with multiple Super Bowls. Can you name 5 QBs you'd rather have? Maybe. 10? Absolutely not.

Ben has his flaws, as do most, but I can't think of many teams where he would not upgrade the QB position. He's still the best QB in the AFC north, and there is probably a strong argument to be made that he's number 2 overall in the AFC after Brady.

Shawn
02-14-2012, 09:36 AM
Basically you are asking would we trade Ben for Andrew Luck? Instead of a knee jerk reaction I really wanted to think about that.

My answer is yes I would.

Why? Hear me out

1) 30 yo QB who has taken much much abuse...who knows how much longer he has
2) New OC, new QB to learn that system
3) Andrew Luck is about a no miss pick as they get

feltdizz
02-14-2012, 09:43 AM
Basically you are asking would we trade Ben for Andrew Luck? Instead of a knee jerk reaction I really wanted to think about that.

My answer is yes I would.

Why? Hear me out

1) 30 yo QB who has taken much much abuse...who knows how much longer he has
2) New OC, new QB to learn that system
3) Andrew Luck is about a no miss pick as they get

No such thing as a no miss at QB.... but I agree with everything else.

It ain't happening though because like someone else said.. we value Ben way more than other GM's do.

Why would a GM with the #1 pick want a 30 year old QB who is always hurt and has the luxury of the #1 D to cover for any miscues? A QB like Ben cannot save the Colts with the D they have...

Shawn
02-14-2012, 11:55 AM
I agree there is no such thing as a no miss QB, but Luck is as close as you get to a sure thing. And I agree, the Colts would never make that trade.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
02-14-2012, 12:07 PM
Allow me to play devil's advocate here...

Ben will turn 30 very soon. He gets hit A TON and the injuries are mounting more and more every year. His best years will not last much longer. At that point, the Steelers have no back up plan and are unlikely to be in position to draft a game breaker at QB unless they have an absolutely awful season that we all have to endure.

Unloading him for the 1st overall pick, which without his buddy Bruce being involved in would have no chance at happening otherwise, would allow the Steelers to get Andrew Luck, an incredible prospect as a prototype quarterback. Rookies have a salary scale, so Luck wont cost as much as he would have a few years ago. Unloading Ben could greatly help the salary cap situation, too, I would imagine.

Lots of vet players need to be unloaded in the very near future. It's not a full-on rebuilding year, but it is certainly one of change. Steeler Nation has been very fortunate to experience 3 recent Super Bowls, winning 2 of them. If five years from now Ben is gone, and there is no young gun to step in, than a run like that likely doesn't happen again for quite a while. On the other hand, if Luck is as good as advertised, the Steelers have a chance to run off another 3 Super Bowls or more over the next 10 years.


Ben for the Colts 1 and 2 this year and 2 and 3 next year. I would certainly think long and hard about pulling the trigger. It hurts the team this year, but possibly sets them up for the next 10 to 15.

Good point on the cap savings.

Actually it is not a good point on the cap savings.

Ben signed an 8 year contract in 2008 which included a $25.2M SB. He is half way through that deal so there is still $12.6M in SB hit still to be accounted for. Furthermore, he has restructured his deal during this time in order to relieve some cap hit. I'm not sure exactly how it played out, but the cap numbers for '11 and '12 appear $5.32M each over his salary, which would indicate pro rated SB.

That would mean that if traded, cut, retired etc. that the Steelers would either have to charge $21.28M against the cap in 2012 - $4.36M above his current charge, or charge $5.32M against the cap this year - a savings of $11.6M - and take a massive $15.96 dead cap hit next season, which would more than likely plunge them again into an even worse situation - and no Ben.

isonator07
02-14-2012, 06:17 PM
[quote="D Rock":1z1po32n]Allow me to play devil's advocate here...

Ben will turn 30 very soon. He gets hit A TON and the injuries are mounting more and more every year. His best years will not last much longer. At that point, the Steelers have no back up plan and are unlikely to be in position to draft a game breaker at QB unless they have an absolutely awful season that we all have to endure.

Unloading him for the 1st overall pick, which without his buddy Bruce being involved in would have no chance at happening otherwise, would allow the Steelers to get Andrew Luck, an incredible prospect as a prototype quarterback. Rookies have a salary scale, so Luck wont cost as much as he would have a few years ago. Unloading Ben could greatly help the salary cap situation, too, I would imagine.

Lots of vet players need to be unloaded in the very near future. It's not a full-on rebuilding year, but it is certainly one of change. Steeler Nation has been very fortunate to experience 3 recent Super Bowls, winning 2 of them. If five years from now Ben is gone, and there is no young gun to step in, than a run like that likely doesn't happen again for quite a while. On the other hand, if Luck is as good as advertised, the Steelers have a chance to run off another 3 Super Bowls or more over the next 10 years.


Ben for the Colts 1 and 2 this year and 2 and 3 next year. I would certainly think long and hard about pulling the trigger. It hurts the team this year, but possibly sets them up for the next 10 to 15.

Good point on the cap savings.

Actually it is not a good point on the cap savings.

Ben signed an 8 year contract in 2008 which included a $25.2M SB. He is half way through that deal so there is still $12.6M in SB hit still to be accounted for. Furthermore, he has restructured his deal during this time in order to relieve some cap hit. I'm not sure exactly how it played out, but the cap numbers for '11 and '12 appear $5.32M each over his salary, which would indicate pro rated SB.

That would mean that if traded, cut, retired etc. that the Steelers would either have to charge $21.28M against the cap in 2012 - $4.36M above his current charge, or charge $5.32M against the cap this year - a savings of $11.6M - and take a massive $15.96 dead cap hit next season, which would more than likely plunge them again into an even worse situation - and no Ben.[/quote:1z1po32n]

Good point on the non cap savings :lol:

I assumed with his big contract it would save us money. Thanks for the correct info on it.

D Rock
02-14-2012, 06:28 PM
[quote="D Rock":385e3hsr]Allow me to play devil's advocate here...

Ben will turn 30 very soon. He gets hit A TON and the injuries are mounting more and more every year. His best years will not last much longer. At that point, the Steelers have no back up plan and are unlikely to be in position to draft a game breaker at QB unless they have an absolutely awful season that we all have to endure.

Unloading him for the 1st overall pick, which without his buddy Bruce being involved in would have no chance at happening otherwise, would allow the Steelers to get Andrew Luck, an incredible prospect as a prototype quarterback. Rookies have a salary scale, so Luck wont cost as much as he would have a few years ago. Unloading Ben could greatly help the salary cap situation, too, I would imagine.

Lots of vet players need to be unloaded in the very near future. It's not a full-on rebuilding year, but it is certainly one of change. Steeler Nation has been very fortunate to experience 3 recent Super Bowls, winning 2 of them. If five years from now Ben is gone, and there is no young gun to step in, than a run like that likely doesn't happen again for quite a while. On the other hand, if Luck is as good as advertised, the Steelers have a chance to run off another 3 Super Bowls or more over the next 10 years.


Ben for the Colts 1 and 2 this year and 2 and 3 next year. I would certainly think long and hard about pulling the trigger. It hurts the team this year, but possibly sets them up for the next 10 to 15.

Good point on the cap savings.

Actually it is not a good point on the cap savings.

Ben signed an 8 year contract in 2008 which included a $25.2M SB. He is half way through that deal so there is still $12.6M in SB hit still to be accounted for. Furthermore, he has restructured his deal during this time in order to relieve some cap hit. I'm not sure exactly how it played out, but the cap numbers for '11 and '12 appear $5.32M each over his salary, which would indicate pro rated SB.

That would mean that if traded, cut, retired etc. that the Steelers would either have to charge $21.28M against the cap in 2012 - $4.36M above his current charge, or charge $5.32M against the cap this year - a savings of $11.6M - and take a massive $15.96 dead cap hit next season, which would more than likely plunge them again into an even worse situation - and no Ben.

Good point on the non cap savings :lol:

I assumed with his big contract it would save us money. Thanks for the correct info on it.[/quote:385e3hsr]


:Agree

Thanks for looking in to it. I guess in the end we will just have to stick with our quarterback who has a bunch of Super Bowl experience. Shucks.

pittpete
02-14-2012, 06:39 PM
Thank God we have Colbert :wink:

Steel Life
02-14-2012, 10:57 PM
And this would be how Florio & others get their ideas...uh I mean "sources".

SteelerOfDeVille
02-15-2012, 12:03 AM
Aaron Rodgers is probably the only player on the planet that could get me started on the conversation...

Dresden
02-15-2012, 03:01 AM
The Colts would never trade their selection (and for all intents and purposes Luck) for Roethlisberger.

Dude, it's only a percentage of the Steeler Nation that actually believes that Roethlisberger is elite when they say that nonsense. Colts fans would nearly riot in Indianapolis :lol:


Can you name 5 QBs you'd rather have? Maybe.

Honestly dude,...there's no maybe.

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Peyton Manning

Drew Brees

Philip Rivers

Cam Newton

Sam Bradford

Matthew Stafford

Josh Freeman


After these guys,..everybody else is pretty much the same guy,..the "somewhere in between solid to awful" QB, including Roethlisberger. IMHO

Not to say that a team can't win with guys like that,...i'm just saying people shouldn't get beside themselves and consider them the heart and soul of and or the most valuable players on their respective teams when that is in FACT far from truth.

Dresden
02-15-2012, 03:17 AM
Oh yeah,..my apologies for getting off the subject to a degree Ladies and Gentlemen. I would most certainly trade Mr. Roethlisberger to the Colts for their 1st pick if they were foolish enough to make such a deal.

Though admittedly, i would feel sorry for them to degree and harbor some regret that i profited by said foolishness. As it would seem almost like subterfuge to me to knowingly ship them a QB that i know will be ridiculous without the safety net of the the Steelers Organization and our famed defensive Units.

Wait,...that means no i wouldn't trade him to the Colts then,...i'd just stop coddling the guy and keep attempting to bring in his replacement. Maybe i'd get lucky and he'd throw a tantrum and retire ? :lol:

SS Laser
02-15-2012, 03:52 AM
Wow Josh Freeman? Grasp at straws much? Also 2 others need more then 1 good year to even sniff a list like that. Add a 3rd and 4th that needs to make it to the playoffs and win.

You do value stat hogs I see.

I don't know what for you means Elite? For me it is: win baby just win! And I mean SUPER BOWLS!

Here is a better list:

Aaron Rodgers

Peyton Manning

Drew Brees

Eli Manning/Ben R. (Not sure who is better.) I like Bens skill set better. But Eli wins rings!

Then the rest of the league. Ben is top 5 right now. And could be better! Do you notice that all the REAL top QB's have a RING! And 2 have 2 rings!

You need to review some stats here also. Ben is kind of a stat hog also. :shock:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... ified=true (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_YARDS&tabSeq=0&season=2011&experience=null&Submit=Go&archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&qualified=true)

Now would I trade Ben. Not sure, I am on the fence. I like his answers in the latest article!

D Rock
02-15-2012, 08:28 AM
The Colts would never trade their selection (and for all intents and purposes Luck) for Roethlisberger.

Dude, it's only a percentage of the Steeler Nation that actually believes that Roethlisberger is elite when they say that nonsense. Colts fans would nearly riot in Indianapolis :lol:


Can you name 5 QBs you'd rather have? Maybe.

Honestly dude,...there's no maybe.

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Peyton Manning

Drew Brees

Philip Rivers

Cam Newton

Sam Bradford

Matthew Stafford

Josh Freeman


After these guys,..everybody else is pretty much the same guy,..the "somewhere in between solid to awful" QB, including Roethlisberger. IMHO

Not to say that a team can't win with guys like that,...i'm just saying people shouldn't get beside themselves and consider them the heart and soul of and or the most valuable players on their respective teams when that is in FACT far from truth.


Snapshot of the 2004 draft:

You would rather have Philip Rivers over Big Ben or Eli Manning.



You must be a really good fantasy football player.

feltdizz
02-15-2012, 09:29 AM
Josh Freeman :wft

Shawn
02-15-2012, 09:32 AM
Freeman is all potential, but really hasn't shown himself to be anything above average at this point.

Shawn
02-15-2012, 09:33 AM
Laser when you mentioned Manning wins rings, were you suggesting Ben doesn't? I believe Ben has two himself.

ikestops85
02-15-2012, 12:17 PM
The Colts would never trade their selection (and for all intents and purposes Luck) for Roethlisberger.

Dude, it's only a percentage of the Steeler Nation that actually believes that Roethlisberger is elite when they say that nonsense. Colts fans would nearly riot in Indianapolis :lol:


Can you name 5 QBs you'd rather have? Maybe.

Honestly dude,...there's no maybe.

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Peyton Manning

Drew Brees

Philip Rivers

Cam Newton

Sam Bradford

Matthew Stafford

Josh Freeman


After these guys,..everybody else is pretty much the same guy,..the "somewhere in between solid to awful" QB, including Roethlisberger. IMHO

Not to say that a team can't win with guys like that,...i'm just saying people shouldn't get beside themselves and consider them the heart and soul of and or the most valuable players on their respective teams when that is in FACT far from truth.

Can I nominate this for "Funniest Post of the Year"?


It was a joke, right?

pittpete
02-15-2012, 12:33 PM
Matthew Stafford
- megatron
just average QB

grotonsteel
02-15-2012, 12:55 PM
Wow Josh Freeman? Grasp at straws much? Also 2 others need more then 1 good year to even sniff a list like that. Add a 3rd and 4th that needs to make it to the playoffs and win.

You do value stat hogs I see.

I don't know what for you means Elite? For me it is: win baby just win! And I mean SUPER BOWLS!

Here is a better list:

Aaron Rodgers

Peyton Manning

Drew Brees

Eli Manning/Ben R. (Not sure who is better.) I like Bens skill set better. But Eli wins rings!

Then the rest of the league. Ben is top 5 right now. And could be better! Do you notice that all the REAL top QB's have a RING! And 2 have 2 rings!

You need to review some stats here also. Ben is kind of a stat hog also. :shock:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... ified=true (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?seasonType=REG&d-447263-n=1&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=PASSING_YARDS&tabSeq=0&season=2011&experience=null&Submit=Go&archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&qualified=true)

Now would I trade Ben. Not sure, I am on the fence. I like his answers in the latest article!


I would remove Peyton Manning from that list. Peyton manning has done nothing in playoffs.

Eli Manning has poor record compared to Ben as of today.

grotonsteel
02-15-2012, 12:57 PM
Matthew Stafford
- megatron
just average QB


+1

Also how many seasons Matt Stafford has played injury free? 1 maybe 2?

grotonsteel
02-15-2012, 12:59 PM
The Colts would never trade their selection (and for all intents and purposes Luck) for Roethlisberger.

Dude, it's only a percentage of the Steeler Nation that actually believes that Roethlisberger is elite when they say that nonsense. Colts fans would nearly riot in Indianapolis :lol:


Can you name 5 QBs you'd rather have? Maybe.

Honestly dude,...there's no maybe.

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Peyton Manning

Drew Brees

Philip Rivers

Cam Newton

Sam Bradford

Matthew Stafford

Josh Freeman


After these guys,..everybody else is pretty much the same guy,..the "somewhere in between solid to awful" QB, including Roethlisberger. IMHO

Not to say that a team can't win with guys like that,...i'm just saying people shouldn't get beside themselves and consider them the heart and soul of and or the most valuable players on their respective teams when that is in FACT far from truth.


You forgot to add Sanchez. You were slobbering on Sanchez's hot dog some time back or was it Williar??

SS Laser
02-15-2012, 01:22 PM
Laser when you mentioned Manning wins rings, were you suggesting Ben doesn't? I believe Ben has two himself.

No Ben also wins rings. But the Defence helps. :stirpot

No really, I think Ben and Eli are about the same QB overall. Stats are close. But as far as super bowl play Eli wins. Both times he has beaten Brady and been the MVP. But Ben is right in his hip pocket or even better at other QB play. Thats why I have them both at 4a and 4b and not sure which is which.

Ben:
TOTAL
114 3,313 2,090 63.1 29.1 26,579 8.0 233.1 165 5.0 100 3.0 95 363 70 314 2,090 92.1
Eli
TOTAL
121 3,921 2,291 58.4 32.4 27,579 7.0 227.9 185 4.7 129 3.3 99 345 67 194 1,376 82.1

Stats from here:
http://www.nfl.com/players/search?categ ... eAbbr=null (http://www.nfl.com/players/search?category=position&playerType=current&d-447263-p=2&conference=ALL&filter=quarterback&conferenceAbbr=null)

RuthlessBurgher
02-15-2012, 02:42 PM
You must be a really good fantasy football player.

:lol:

fordfixer
02-15-2012, 08:06 PM
The Colts would never trade their selection (and for all intents and purposes Luck) for Roethlisberger.

Dude, it's only a percentage of the Steeler Nation that actually believes that Roethlisberger is elite when they say that nonsense. Colts fans would nearly riot in Indianapolis :lol:


Can you name 5 QBs you'd rather have? Maybe.

Honestly dude,...there's no maybe.

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Peyton Manning

Drew Brees

Philip Rivers

Cam Newton

Sam Bradford

Matthew Stafford

Josh Freeman


After these guys,..everybody else is pretty much the same guy,..the "somewhere in between solid to awful" QB, including Roethlisberger. IMHO

Not to say that a team can't win with guys like that,...i'm just saying people shouldn't get beside themselves and consider them the heart and soul of and or the most valuable players on their respective teams when that is in FACT far from truth.


You forgot to add Sanchez. You were slobbering on Sanchez's hot dog some time back or was it Williar??

It really doesn't matter Dresden and Williar are interchangeable

D Rock
02-15-2012, 08:37 PM
You must be a really good fantasy football player.

:lol:


:Agree

I agree with Ruthless

Dresden
02-16-2012, 12:27 AM
The Colts would never trade their selection (and for all intents and purposes Luck) for Roethlisberger.

Dude, it's only a percentage of the Steeler Nation that actually believes that Roethlisberger is elite when they say that nonsense. Colts fans would nearly riot in Indianapolis :lol:


Can you name 5 QBs you'd rather have? Maybe.

Honestly dude,...there's no maybe.

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Peyton Manning

Drew Brees

Philip Rivers

Cam Newton

Sam Bradford

Matthew Stafford

Josh Freeman


After these guys,..everybody else is pretty much the same guy,..the "somewhere in between solid to awful" QB, including Roethlisberger. IMHO

Not to say that a team can't win with guys like that,...i'm just saying people shouldn't get beside themselves and consider them the heart and soul of and or the most valuable players on their respective teams when that is in FACT far from truth.


Snapshot of the 2004 draft:

You would rather have Philip Rivers over Big Ben or Eli Manning.



You must be a really good fantasy football player.

Never played "Fantasy" Football a day in my life homeboy. However, consistent productivity or lack thereof when matched against ones peers is often a pretty good indicator of one's true worth. :lol:

Dresden
02-16-2012, 12:37 AM
Laser when you mentioned Manning wins rings, were you suggesting Ben doesn't? I believe Ben has two himself.

Yeah,.. and Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Jim McMahon, and Mark Rypien have also played on Superbowl Winning teams.

Certainly this not only put's them on the same level as most all time Greats that also played in the Big Game and not only won,.. but also won MVP awards. But also elite passers like Warren Moon and Dan Marino. :lol:

Dresden
02-16-2012, 12:51 AM
The Colts would never trade their selection (and for all intents and purposes Luck) for Roethlisberger.

Dude, it's only a percentage of the Steeler Nation that actually believes that Roethlisberger is elite when they say that nonsense. Colts fans would nearly riot in Indianapolis :lol:


Can you name 5 QBs you'd rather have? Maybe.

Honestly dude,...there's no maybe.

Tom Brady

Aaron Rodgers

Peyton Manning

Drew Brees

Philip Rivers

Cam Newton

Sam Bradford

Matthew Stafford

Josh Freeman


After these guys,..everybody else is pretty much the same guy,..the "somewhere in between solid to awful" QB, including Roethlisberger. IMHO

Not to say that a team can't win with guys like that,...i'm just saying people shouldn't get beside themselves and consider them the heart and soul of and or the most valuable players on their respective teams when that is in FACT far from truth.


You forgot to add Sanchez. You were slobbering on Sanchez's hot dog some time back or was it Williar??

It really doesn't matter Dresden and Williar are interchangeable


No Williar. But i'm almost certain that they were a poster who was not foolish enough to publicly say that they believe a Qb like Roethlisberger is "elite", a Hall of Famer, the "Hero" of and or the most important player on the roster of his Franchise. :lol:

D Rock
02-16-2012, 08:50 AM
Never played "Fantasy" Football a day in my life homeboy. However, consistent productivity or lack thereof when matched against ones peers is often a pretty good indicator of one's true worth. :lol:


No, it's not.

Philip Rivers is worthless, because he doesn't win games when it counts. His team consistently fails with top-notch rosters.

Josh Freeman threw 16 TDs and 22 INTs this year. His team went 4-12 this year.

Peyton Manning? You would still take him over Ben? He may not ever play another down of football.

Sam Bradford has a career passer rating of 74.2. He may be good in time, but that time isn't now.


Brady, Rodgers, Stafford, Newton, Brees.....now these guys all have a solid argument. Personally, I would be very happy to have any of them OR Ben. They are all together at the top of the league.


But dang man, you sure do like to exaggerate your statements.

feltdizz
02-16-2012, 09:36 AM
Never played "Fantasy" Football a day in my life homeboy. However, consistent productivity or lack thereof when matched against ones peers is often a pretty good indicator of one's true worth. :lol:


No, it's not.

Philip Rivers is worthless, because he doesn't win games when it counts. His team consistently fails with top-notch rosters.

Josh Freeman threw 16 TDs and 22 INTs this year. His team went 4-12 this year.

Peyton Manning? You would still take him over Ben? He may not ever play another down of football.

Sam Bradford has a career passer rating of 74.2. He may be good in time, but that time isn't now.


Brady, Rodgers, Stafford, Newton, Brees.....now these guys all have a solid argument. Personally, I would be very happy to have any of them OR Ben. They are all together at the top of the league.


But dang man, you sure do like to exaggerate your statements.

While I'm not a Rivers fan the guy isn't worthless.... If the DB didn't catch a needless INT on 4th down and fumble he may have a SB appearance on his resume.

I wouldn't take him over Ben or put him in the same convo is Ben though because Rivers is in a pretty bad division.

Slapstick
02-16-2012, 09:42 AM
However, consistent productivity or lack thereof when matched against ones peers is often a pretty good indicator of one's true worth. :lol:

How do you define consistency? Matthew Stafford, for example, has played for three seasons...he had a great season last year...the previous year, he played in three games...the year before that, he did not have a good season...

Now, can you say that he consistently produces better than Roethlisberger?

After eight seasons, Roethlisberger has a better career completion percentage, passer rating, Yards per Attempt and lower INT%....

That is consistency...


Yeah,.. and Jeff Hostetler, Trent Dilfer, Doug Williams, Jim McMahon, and Mark Rypien have also played on Superbowl Winning teams.

Certainly this not only put's them on the same level as most all time Greats that also played in the Big Game and not only won,.. but also won MVP awards. But also elite passers like Warren Moon and Dan Marino. :lol:

How many of those guys you mentioned started more than one SB? More than two?

How many have a playoff record better than Roethlisberger?

How many have more than one SB ring?

Please, enlighten me...

Shawn
02-16-2012, 09:43 AM
Laser when you mentioned Manning wins rings, were you suggesting Ben doesn't? I believe Ben has two himself.

No Ben also wins rings. But the Defence helps. :stirpot

No really, I think Ben and Eli are about the same QB overall. Stats are close. But as far as super bowl play Eli wins. Both times he has beaten Brady and been the MVP. But Ben is right in his hip pocket or even better at other QB play. Thats why I have them both at 4a and 4b and not sure which is which.

Ben:
TOTAL
114 3,313 2,090 63.1 29.1 26,579 8.0 233.1 165 5.0 100 3.0 95 363 70 314 2,090 92.1
Eli
TOTAL
121 3,921 2,291 58.4 32.4 27,579 7.0 227.9 185 4.7 129 3.3 99 345 67 194 1,376 82.1

Stats from here:
http://www.nfl.com/players/search?categ ... eAbbr=null (http://www.nfl.com/players/search?category=position&playerType=current&d-447263-p=2&conference=ALL&filter=quarterback&conferenceAbbr=null)


I hear ya, and agree. As of late, Eli looks like the better passer to me. With that said, over the course of their careers I would give it to Ben.

Dresden
02-17-2012, 04:37 AM
After eight seasons, Roethlisberger has a better career completion percentage, passer rating, Yards per Attempt and lower INT%....

Post your Boy's career Td/turnover ratio versus 500 or better ball clubs. Or hey,.. you don't even have to go that deep,..just do so for every postseason game in which he has ever played in. :lol:






How many of those guys you mentioned started more than one SB? More than two?

How many have a playoff record better than Roethlisberger?

How many have more than one SB ring?

Please, enlighten me...

None of those guys were deemed by their respective organizations to be "that guy" and carried by the team for any extended period of time after they PARTICIPATED in VARYING degrees to World titles won by TEAM efforts.

That is pretty much 'Mass' style enlightenment Sir/Ma'am :lol:

Mo_Steel
02-17-2012, 06:13 AM
Allow me to play devil's advocate here...

Ben will turn 30 very soon. He gets hit A TON and the injuries are mounting more and more every year. His best years will not last much longer. At that point, the Steelers have no back up plan and are unlikely to be in position to draft a game breaker at QB unless they have an absolutely awful season that we all have to endure.

Unloading him for the 1st overall pick, which without his buddy Bruce being involved in would have no chance at happening otherwise, would allow the Steelers to get Andrew Luck, an incredible prospect as a prototype quarterback. Rookies have a salary scale, so Luck wont cost as much as he would have a few years ago. Unloading Ben could greatly help the salary cap situation, too, I would imagine.

Lots of vet players need to be unloaded in the very near future. It's not a full-on rebuilding year, but it is certainly one of change. Steeler Nation has been very fortunate to experience 3 recent Super Bowls, winning 2 of them. If five years from now Ben is gone, and there is no young gun to step in, than a run like that likely doesn't happen again for quite a while. On the other hand, if Luck is as good as advertised, the Steelers have a chance to run off another 3 Super Bowls or more over the next 10 years.


Ben for the Colts 1 and 2 this year and 2 and 3 next year. I would certainly think long and hard about pulling the trigger. It hurts the team this year, but possibly sets them up for the next 10 to 15.

Good point on the cap savings.

I don't think this will be the case. We would ADD several million in "Dead Money" to our Cap at an accelerated rate. He still has three years or so left on his deal plus a restructure last season no way can they afford that cap hit now. Not sure of the exact numbers but Ben would cost us to trade not SAVE.

All things being equal I still wouldn't trade him at this time, still believe he has a Super Bowl or two in him over the next 5 years, especially if they can figure out a way to keep him vertical in the pocket.

Mo_Steel
02-17-2012, 06:54 AM
Found some info on what Ben has left that would be accelerated:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/74987 ... -2011_.pdf (http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/749872/Pgh_Steelers_Salary_Cap__10-15-2011_.pdf)

this is list of steelers cap from last year and he still shows over $21 million in Bonus money still due after last years restructure, that would be accelerated immediatly to the cap if he was traded.

Best option we can do with Ben will be to extend him a couple years to spread out the hit further as well as restructure turning some more of this years $6.3 million base into signing bonus.

Looks like we should be able to pay him for simplicity sake $2 mill base this year(not sure what we have to pay him), extend him two years and this would add $4.3 to his signing bonus remaining but due to the extension will be able to spread it over the contract which would then be 5 years so it looks like the cap number for bonus would actually drop to $5,126,000. So putting the numbers together with extension of 2 years and only paying a base of $2 mil. Been would cost us this year $7,126,000 lowering his cap number and saving $4,554,000 against our cap. Don't trade Extend the man...

Slapstick
02-17-2012, 09:55 AM
After eight seasons, Roethlisberger has a better career completion percentage, passer rating, Yards per Attempt and lower INT%....

Post your Boy's career Td/turnover ratio versus 500 or better ball clubs. Or hey,.. you don't even have to go that deep,..just do so for every postseason game in which he has ever played in. :lol:

Answered in another thread:


our supposed pro bowl QB had over 100 QB rating in 3 consecutive road playoff games in route to that SB 40 victory. something that was never done before


gotta love how some haters pick their stats

Nice try, though...





How many of those guys you mentioned started more than one SB? More than two?

How many have a playoff record better than Roethlisberger?

How many have more than one SB ring?

Please, enlighten me...

None of those guys were deemed by their respective organizations to be "that guy" and carried by the team for any extended period of time after they PARTICIPATED in VARYING degrees to World titles won by TEAM efforts.

That is pretty much 'Mass' style enlightenment Sir/Ma'am :lol:

So, what does that have to do with consistency?

10-4 in the playoffs with 2 rings is consistency...

A career QB rating of over 90 is consistency...

A career Yards per Attempt of 8.0 is consistency...

How many QBs that have starter more than 100 games have a career winning percentage of more than 70%?

Not many, but Roethlisberger is one of them

D Rock
02-17-2012, 01:28 PM
You must be a really good fantasy football player.

Never played "Fantasy" Football a day in my life homeboy. However, consistent productivity or lack thereof when matched against ones peers is often a pretty good indicator of one's true worth. :lol:


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