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BradshawsHairdresser
02-10-2012, 01:30 PM
According to this article, one of the biggest consequences of our cap situation may be the inability to keep our own top restricted free agent, Mike Wallace. Will we be able to replace him if he leaves? An extra first-round draft pick would be helpful, but at the expense of our best deep threat, would we come out ahead on that exchange?




New England Patriots: Pittsburgh Steelers' Mike Wallace Is a Realistic Target
By Cian Fahey (Featured Columnist) on February 7, 2012


Bill Belichick, during his time as the New England Patriots' head coach, has never been scared of making an aggressive move to improve his roster.

Whether it be trading for Wes Welker and Randy Moss prior to the 2007 season, or adding Albert Haynesworth and Chad Ochocinco more recently, Belichick, more than most, is always looking to better his side in whatever way possible.

After a Super Bowl in which Tom Brady was only able to complete 11 receptions for 126 yards to his wide receivers, the Patriots' problem on the outside was exposed for everyone to see.

Even though the Super Bowl, in which Eli Manning completed 19 passes for 207 yards to his receivers, was only the exclamation point at the end of a season when the offense survived without big plays on the outside, the next step on the blueprint for success is rebuilding the group.

While many prior to the season believed Chad Ochocinco was going to be the difference-maker on offense, Ochocinco hadn't been the type of receiver the Patriots needed last year for a very long time. Ochocinco is an expert route runner with precise feet and safe hands.

His inability to comprehend the offense fully kept him on the sidelines for most of the season, but he and Wes Welker, along with Deion Branch, wouldn't have been a complementary pairing either way.

However, Welker's perfect complementary receiver is available in free agency this year.

Despite being a restricted free agent, Mike Wallace is nowhere near guaranteed to return to Pittsburgh as a Steelers player next year. One alteration to free agency made by the relatively new Collective Bargaining Agreement is that teams can no longer put first- and third-round protections on their restricted free agents.

In the past, restricted free agency rarely ever allowed players to leave their original teams. The last big name to move as a restricted free agency was Wes Welker and even then the Miami Dolphins and Patriots agreed to a trade rather than go through the bidding process. Therefore he essentially didn't move as a restricted free agent.

The Dolphins undervalued Welker at the time as he hadn't played to the level that he has exhibited in New England since then. Mike Wallace in Pittsburgh is a completely different situation.

On first glance, it is more likely for Bill Belichick to start a reality TV series with Chad Ochocinco opposed to the team signing Wallace. However, when you dig deeper into the potential deal, it wouldn't be a surprise for Wallace to become the best deep threat in Boston since Randy Moss.

The Steelers at best can put a first-round tender on Wallace, which is what you would expect them to do. They do have the franchise tag available; however, their lack of cap space will prevent them from using it. With indications being that the Steelers are expected to be upwards of $20 million over the salary cap next season, it's unrealistic to expect them to work in a commitment of around $10 million for Wallace.

If the Patriots do decide to compete with the Steelers for Wallace's signature, they could easily outbid the Steelers early on. A restricted free agent's original team has 10 days to match any offer sheets that come in. If the Patriots get an early offer in, it could make Omar Khan's, the Steelers' cap manager, job very difficult while trying to manage a roster that needs a lot of work.

With the compensation being a first round pick, the Patriots would only be giving up their 31st overall selection in the 2012 draft for arguably an elite wide receiver. Considering that late round picks are no guarantees, and the team has an earlier first-round draft choice after last year's trade with the New Orleans Saints, losing that pick isn't a big deal.

More importantly than Wallace being considered an elite receiver, his skill set is perfect for the Patriots' offense.

Building an offense is never as simple as getting the best talent and putting it together to overwhelm other teams. In 2007, Tom Brady's best season, the Patriots' receiving corp perfectly complemented each other with Randy Moss and Donte Stallworth stretching the field for Wes Welker to move the chains.

Without a deep threat, it is easier for teams to shorten the field and flood Welker out of the equation. When safeties don't have to respect a deep threat, throwing windows become tighter and defenders are more likely to pick off passes.

If Wallace becomes a Patriots player, defenses will have to respect his deep threat or allow him to hit home runs on a regular basis. Wallace is one of the fastest—if not the fastest—players in the NFL. Simply dropping a cornerback to play off coverage is never enough to contain him.

Some cornerbacks drop upwards of 12 yards deep and even then they generally get safety help over the top. Considering that Wallace can use his speed with the ball in his hands, that gives the Patriots the option of quick passes into the flat that can turn into massive gains.

Or, if they choose to still send Wallace deep, then the best slot receiver in the NFL gets even more space to work underneath the defense.

With Wallace on the outside, the Patriots' matchup offense would become uncontainable. The quartet of Rob Gronkowski, Aaron Hernandez, Welker and Wallace would ask too many different questions of defenses and require them to be consistent in all facets of play.

The Steelers' cap issues aren't the only thing working in the Patriots favor.

Outside of Wallace in Pittsburgh, the Steelers have a trio of talented receivers under contract entering next season, as well as Jerricho Cotchery hitting free agency. Veteran Hines Ward is looking to redo his contract and he will almost certainly return. Emmanuel Sanders is returning from injuries to both his feet that reduced his role this year. The Steelers have enough players with Antonio Brown to cover the loss of their main receiver.

The free agent pool of receivers this year for third and fourth choice options represents a lot of value as far as possession pass-catchers go. While the Patriots do need an elite receiver, the Steelers could still have a very talented group of receivers for Todd Haley without Wallace, and instead add someone like Eddie Royal or Cotchery for cheaper.

This would work against the Steelers when trying to retain Wallace because they wouldn't value him as highly as the Patriots would.

Wes Welker is very unlikely to leave the Patriots because he doesn't fit as well in any other offense in the NFL. Once he is signed, Mike Wallace is a legitimate option for the New England Patriots to pursue.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1055 ... tic-target (http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1055220-new-england-patriots-pittsburgh-steelers-mike-wallace-is-a-realistic-target)

grotonsteel
02-10-2012, 01:36 PM
I doubt Steelers will strengthen an AFC rival but if Mike Wallace wants top WR money and Cheatroits are willing to give 1st and 3rd i would do the trade.

Oviedo
02-10-2012, 01:37 PM
So be it. Give us pick #31, we can take Ashlon Jeffrey or Michael Floyd and we will still be OK at WR. It would also give us the money to keep Cotchery.

After Wallace's late season vanishing act I would be very cautious giving him a mega-deal.

Slapstick
02-10-2012, 01:38 PM
Then, Mike can be another *s receiver to drop passes during playoff games...

BradshawsHairdresser
02-10-2012, 01:43 PM
I doubt Steelers will strengthen an AFC rival but if Mike Wallace wants top WR money and Cheatroits are willing to give 1st and 3rd i would do the trade.
Under the new CBA, the Cheats don't have to give up a 3rd, only a 1st, to sign a restricted FA away from us.

BigRob
02-10-2012, 01:56 PM
This article fails to mention one crucial subtext. We can still sign Wallace to a deal before free agency starts and lower his cap hit from the RFA tender of 2.7 million for this year.

A Greg Jennings type deal sounds about right at 4 years 26 million.

BradshawsHairdresser
02-10-2012, 02:03 PM
This article fails to mention one crucial subtext. We can still sign Wallace to a deal before free agency starts and lower his cap hit from the RFA tender of 2.7 million for this year.



Didn't realize this. Good post.

BigRob
02-10-2012, 02:11 PM
I would also expect looking at the situation with the receivers that we are looking at drafting another 3rd - 4th round receiver to develop.

The likely hood of us keeping Wallace, Brown, and Sanders in the long term is low.

The more I think of it, I actually wouldn't mind to get a first round pick for Wallace if we knew that Sanders would stay healthy.

Oviedo
02-10-2012, 02:13 PM
I doubt Steelers will strengthen an AFC rival but if Mike Wallace wants top WR money and Cheatroits are willing to give 1st and 3rd i would do the trade.
Under the new CBA, the Cheats don't have to give up a 3rd, only a 1st, to sign a restricted FA away from us.

I'd have no issue with getting a second 1st Round pick. Would give us the flexibility to package with our 2nd to move up in Round 1 and get the OL we need and still get a very good replacement WR late in Round 1.

flippy
02-10-2012, 02:32 PM
I'd take a #1 for Wallace in a heartbeat. He's just a WR.

QB + Defense = Championships

We could grab 2 stud defenders in the 1st round. What if we could land Farrior and Hampton's replacements by giving up Wallace? I'd do that.

RuthlessBurgher
02-10-2012, 02:33 PM
I doubt Steelers will strengthen an AFC rival but if Mike Wallace wants top WR money and Cheatroits are willing to give 1st and 3rd i would do the trade.

We've been talking about this very possibilily in Chadman's Draft and Free Agency Thread. We don't have to agree to any trade to lose Wallace. If we give him the highest RFA tender, New England could just offer him a monster deal that we will not be able to match due to cap restraints, and we will have no choice but to lose him for only the 31st overall pick.

flippy
02-10-2012, 02:39 PM
Maybe we could get Chad Johnson cheap.

NW Steeler
02-10-2012, 02:59 PM
No way in hell the Steelers will match a huge offer if Wallace is given one. He is NOT elite. Count me in on the take pick #31 for him. We will miss his ability to stretch the field, but Brown can do that too. Think he is gone.

Oviedo
02-10-2012, 03:06 PM
No way in hell the Steelers will match a huge offer if Wallace is given one. He is NOT elite. Count me in on the take pick #31 for him. We will miss his ability to stretch the field, but Brown can do that too. Think he is gone.

You're singing my song. Fast does not equal elite.

At #31 we will be able to find someone who can do a more than adequete job of stretching the field, plus they will be bigger receivers similar to Hakeem Nicks. We are missing that right now

NW Steeler
02-10-2012, 03:07 PM
No way in hell the Steelers will match a huge offer if Wallace is given one. He is NOT elite. Count me in on the take pick #31 for him. We will miss his ability to stretch the field, but Brown can do that too. Think he is gone.

You're singing my song. Fast does not equal elite.

At #31 we will be able to find someone who can do a more than adequete job of stretching the field, plus they will be bigger receivers similar to Hakeem Nicks. We are missing that right now

Bingo. We NEED one of those big and strong receivers that can go and get the ball and not get tackled by a blade of grass.

Lebsteel
02-10-2012, 03:36 PM
I'd take a #1 for Wallace in a heartbeat. He's just a WR.

QB + Defense = Championships

We could grab 2 stud defenders in the 1st round. What if we could land Farrior and Hampton's replacements by giving up Wallace? I'd do that.
:tt2 :tt2 :tt2 :Agree :Agree

Dee Dub
02-10-2012, 03:53 PM
So be it. Give us pick #31, we can take Ashlon Jeffrey or Michael Floyd and we will still be OK at WR. It would also give us the money to keep Cotchery.

After Wallace's late season vanishing act I would be very cautious giving him a mega-deal.

Michael Floyd is a top 15 and Jeffrey goes anywhere from 15-25. Not sure how the Steelers can get them at 31.

And Wallace vanished because teams took him away from the Steelers (cover 1 with safety over the top). Which you would think would have allowed his fellow receivers to break through and score TD's but that wasnt the case. So who really disappeared?

Dee Dub
02-10-2012, 03:58 PM
No way in hell the Steelers will match a huge offer if Wallace is given one. He is NOT elite. Count me in on the take pick #31 for him. We will miss his ability to stretch the field, but Brown can do that too. Think he is gone.

Brown doesnt score TD's, Mike Wallace does. And how you can say Wallace isnt elite when he has done what he has done in just 3 years is beyond me. ????

24 TD's in his first 3 years in the league and back to back 1,000 plus years with over 130 receptions the past two is elite to me.

Dee Dub
02-10-2012, 04:01 PM
Mike Wallace scores a TD ever 7.125 times he receives a ball, Antonio Brown scores a TD every 42.5 times he receives the ball over their careers.

And teams dont roll coverage over the top to stop Antonio Brown deep.

Are you kidding me?

Eddie Spaghetti
02-10-2012, 04:06 PM
I would hate to lose wallace, but I would not break the bank for him either.

the rumors of him sulking a little when AB came on don't help his case, IMO.

the most I would offer is a 5 year deal in the 6-7 million/year range. If he wants 8-10, then let him walk.

Eich
02-10-2012, 04:24 PM
While many prior to the season believed Chad Ochocinco was going to be the difference-maker on offense, Ochocinco hadn't been the type of receiver the Patriots needed last year for a very long time. Ochocinco is an expert route runner with precise feet and safe hands.
His inability to comprehend the offense fully kept him on the sidelines for most of the season, but he and Wes Welker, along with Deion Branch, wouldn't have been a complementary pairing either way.

For the life of me, I don't get this. Is the offense THAT complicated or is Ocho that dumb or both?

How does the "Master", "Genius" Belichick not get more out of Ocho than he did? I mean the guy was completely useless to them for the entire season. Seriously, how is that possible?

NW Steeler
02-10-2012, 05:24 PM
Mike Wallace scores a TD ever 7.125 times he receives a ball, Antonio Brown scores a TD every 42.5 times he receives the ball over their careers.

And teams dont roll coverage over the top to stop Antonio Brown deep.

Are you kidding me?


No. When I look at him and his consistency, or lack thereof, I dont consider him elite. But that is only my opinion as a fan. Cant argue with the numbers you have presented, but I dont think he is worth top money if that is what he is offered. Once again, only my opinion.

RuthlessBurgher
02-10-2012, 05:52 PM
While many prior to the season believed Chad Ochocinco was going to be the difference-maker on offense, Ochocinco hadn't been the type of receiver the Patriots needed last year for a very long time. Ochocinco is an expert route runner with precise feet and safe hands.
His inability to comprehend the offense fully kept him on the sidelines for most of the season, but he and Wes Welker, along with Deion Branch, wouldn't have been a complementary pairing either way.

For the life of me, I don't get this. Is the offense THAT complicated or is Ocho that dumb or both?

How does the "Master", "Genius" Belichick not get more out of Ocho than he did? I mean the guy was completely useless to them for the entire season. Seriously, how is that possible?

Chad is 34. Hines is 35. Father Time catches up with these guys.

chiken
02-10-2012, 06:29 PM
I love Brown, but how good would he be if Wallace wasn't there to take the Double team. In the Second half Teams really took away the over the top Deep and begged for any of our other receivers to beat them.

Wallace is Elite. He just isnt a big strong guy who breaks Tackles but he is the guy you have to Double team or he will get over the top of you. It was up to BA to move him around and get him other ways of being effective.

Dee Dub
02-10-2012, 06:35 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":2m2nyewl]Mike Wallace scores a TD ever 7.125 times he receives a ball, Antonio Brown scores a TD every 42.5 times he receives the ball over their careers.

And teams dont roll coverage over the top to stop Antonio Brown deep.

Are you kidding me?


No. When I look at him and his consistency, or lack thereof, I dont consider him elite. But that is only my opinion as a fan. Cant argue with the numbers you have presented, but I dont think he is worth top money if that is what he is offered. Once again, only my opinion.[/quote:2m2nyewl]

Wallace has only been the #1 go-to guy for about a season and a half and he is putting up these numbers? What if Wallace continues to improve like he has over his first 3 years? Then what? You can bet any team who is interested in him has already played that tape through. You are then looking at off the chart numbers.

pittpete
02-10-2012, 06:42 PM
I'd take a #1 for Wallace in a heartbeat.

IMHO, Wallaces' abilities in the redzone keep him from being elite.
Id rather have a big fast pass catching TE like Gronkowski then Wallace.

NJ-STEELER
02-10-2012, 07:01 PM
No way in hell the Steelers will match a huge offer if Wallace is given one. He is NOT elite. Count me in on the take pick #31 for him. We will miss his ability to stretch the field, but Brown can do that too. Think he is gone.

You're singing my song. Fast does not equal elite.

At #31 we will be able to find someone who can do a more than adequete job of stretching the field, plus they will be bigger receivers similar to Hakeem Nicks. We are missing that right now


might have to use one at 24 instead of 31.. not sure who would be left there.

i think floyd or jefferies would be gone

as far as drafting D with 2 1st round picks..

WHISKEY

TANGO

FOXTROT

NW Steeler
02-10-2012, 08:09 PM
[quote="NW Steeler":1qrlxg6i][quote="Dee Dub":1qrlxg6i]Mike Wallace scores a TD ever 7.125 times he receives a ball, Antonio Brown scores a TD every 42.5 times he receives the ball over their careers.

And teams dont roll coverage over the top to stop Antonio Brown deep.

Are you kidding me?


No. When I look at him and his consistency, or lack thereof, I dont consider him elite. But that is only my opinion as a fan. Cant argue with the numbers you have presented, but I dont think he is worth top money if that is what he is offered. Once again, only my opinion.[/quote:1qrlxg6i]

Wallace has only been the #1 go-to guy for about a season and a half and he is putting up these numbers? What if Wallace continues to improve like he has over his first 3 years? Then what? You can bet any team who is interested in him has already played that tape through. You are then looking at off the chart numbers.[/quote:1qrlxg6i]

Well if teams are looking at him like you are - and they very well may be - he will probably get an offer that the Steelers wont be able to match anyway.

SteelerOfDeVille
02-10-2012, 08:27 PM
Mike Wallace scores a TD ever 7.125 times he receives a ball, Antonio Brown scores a TD every 42.5 times he receives the ball over their careers.
And Mike Vrabel had a higher percentage of TD's per catch than Hines...

However, these numbers certainly prove which one tends to have the long-ball tossed his way once or twice a game vs which one is the possesion WR.

If i could only have one ingredient of a great WR, personally would rather have guys who help me move the sticks instead of the guy who is an occasional deep threat (i.e., 1 or 2 ATTEMPTED long balls a game). There are a lot of 3rd and 6 or 7's during a game... give me the Hines Ward/Cris Carter and I can find somebody who runs a 4.3 in the next draft.

steelblood
02-10-2012, 09:55 PM
I doubt Steelers will strengthen an AFC rival but if Mike Wallace wants top WR money and Cheatroits are willing to give 1st and 3rd i would do the trade.

We've been talking about this very possibilily in Chadman's Draft and Free Agency Thread. We don't have to agree to any trade to lose Wallace. If we give him the highest RFA tender, New England could just offer him a monster deal that we will not be able to match due to cap restraints, and we will have no choice but to lose him for only the 31st overall pick.

Ruthless, I thought the highest tender was a 1st and a 3rd round pick. Has that changed with the new CBA?

Prowler
02-10-2012, 10:11 PM
So be it. Give us pick #31, we can take Ashlon Jeffrey or Michael Floyd and we will still be OK at WR. It would also give us the money to keep Cotchery.

After Wallace's late season vanishing act I would be very cautious giving him a mega-deal.

Michael Floyd is a top 15 and Jeffrey goes anywhere from 15-25. Not sure how the Steelers can get them at 31.

And Wallace vanished because teams took him away from the Steelers (cover 1 with safety over the top). Which you would think would have allowed his fellow receivers to break through and score TD's but that wasnt the case. So who really disappeared?

Michael Floyd is not even a top 5 receiver at his position in my opinion. I have Kendall Wright rated as my top WR in this draft and Justin Blackmon as my number 2. I would not take Ashlon Jeffery until the 2 round at the earliest.

I would love to have 2 picks in the first round instead of Wallace. If any of the following guys fell to us I would be delighted ( Morris Clairborne, Courtney Upshaw, Kendall Wright, Mark Barron, Melvin Ingram, Dontari Poe, Kevin Zeitler and Peter Konz. Realistically I believe, we only have a shot at the 2 OL from Wisconsin, Poe , Barron and Wright.

pittpete
02-10-2012, 10:23 PM
Despite being a restricted free agent, Mike Wallace is nowhere near guaranteed to return to Pittsburgh as a Steelers player next year. One alteration to free agency made by the relatively new Collective Bargaining Agreement is that teams can no longer put first- and third-round protections on their restricted free agents.
In the past, restricted free agency rarely ever allowed players to leave their original teams. The last big name to move as a restricted free agency was Wes Welker and even then the Miami Dolphins and Patriots agreed to a trade rather than go through the bidding process. Therefore he essentially didn't move as a restricted free agent.
The Dolphins undervalued Welker at the time as he hadn't played to the level that he has exhibited in New England since then. Mike Wallace in Pittsburgh is a completely different situation.
On first glance, it is more likely for Bill Belichick to start a reality TV series with Chad Ochocinco opposed to the team signing Wallace. However, when you dig deeper into the potential deal, it wouldn't be a surprise for Wallace to become the best deep threat in Boston since Randy Moss.
The Steelers at best can put a first-round tender on Wallace, which is what you would expect them to do. They do have the franchise tag available; however, their lack of cap space will prevent them from using it. With indications being that the Steelers are expected to be upwards of $20 million over the salary cap next season, it's unrealistic to expect them to work in a commitment of around $10 million for Wallace.

sd steel
02-11-2012, 01:33 AM
Mike Wallace scores a TD ever 7.125 times he receives a ball, Antonio Brown scores a TD every 42.5 times he receives the ball over their careers.
And Mike Vrabel had a higher percentage of TD's per catch than Hines...

However, these numbers certainly prove which one tends to have the long-ball tossed his way once or twice a game vs which one is the possesion WR.

If i could only have one ingredient of a great WR, personally would rather have guys who help me move the sticks instead of the guy who is an occasional deep threat (i.e., 1 or 2 ATTEMPTED long balls a game). There are a lot of 3rd and 6 or 7's during a game... give me the Hines Ward/Cris Carter and I can find somebody who runs a 4.3 in the next draft.


:Agree

Love Mike to death, but the guy is an incomplete receiver and I think he topped off now that teams know how to defend him. Plus the guy drops balls and doesn't go and get balls in traffic. Great speed guy, but not elite. I'd take the 1-31 and be happy....but do you really think the Belichek will go after a speed guy who I guarantee isn't half as savy as ochocinco after the production he got out of him this year. The Pats* aren't looking for guys who can only run one route. The writer is just stirring the pot.

focosteeler
02-11-2012, 02:54 AM
if we do lose wallace (i hope we dont) i think we need to go after a speed guy. Rainey or someone that can take the top off the coverage. Without wallace i dont think that Antonio would be as productive.

steeler_george
02-11-2012, 07:07 AM
Many on here are calling Wallace incomplete, but i can't see how he isn't. I still remember his td vs Green Bay 2 years ago, that was a beauty, sort of Holmesish in the Superbowl.

He opens the field for running game and for the other receivers. If Ben was healthy for the last 4 games and playoffs he would a difference. I remember in the SF and playoffs games, where the passes to him where just not there. I still want him on this team.

However, I am a person thinking that everyone is replaceable. I think the tandem of both Brown and Sanders will do just fine, with their speed and quickness, they will lead to many miss matches on their own. Add in a FA such as Cotchery or even Manningham, and we still are solid at receiver. Don't forget forget we still have Miller.

And don't forget, there are other teams out there, besides NE, who are willing to give up a 1st for him.

Imagine picking in the mid 20s, get Glen, Adams, Poe, Hightower, or even trading back to get more picks in the second. Think about that, if we get Glen and trade back in the second and select Kelechi Osemele, that strengthens our O and D more than Wallace ever could. More holes for the RBs, more time for the WR to run their routes and get open, and BALL CONTROL for the D. Also an elite OL will cure the red zone blues.

Gilbert-Glenn-Pouncy-Osemele-Colon .....plus another another 3-4th round pick to develop another wr or te.

now how does that look compared to just

Wallace, Brown, Sanders

Captain Lemming
02-11-2012, 12:57 PM
I don't see the issue being just about how good he is. The question is what does our team need? Do we want to pay him the big bucks whenour receivers will still be strong?

If we have a way to clear that kind of dough I'd much rather use it to steal Grubs from the Ravens. Our interior run game would take a huge leap forward and go from a weakness to a team strength.

That would give us the more balanced attack theRooneys want.

Snag a great free agent guard and then Flippys idea of going defense in the draft makes sense.

All the Team needs can be addressed if NE snags Wallace and we get that first from them.

We won a SB with ARE and Hines. Not the most explosive pair. Without Wallace we will have a more elusive and deep receiver corporation than EITHER team Ben won the SB with.

I say let Wallace go. I HOPE NE snaps him up.

No dis on Wallace, it would be a great get for NE.

sentinel33
02-11-2012, 01:12 PM
While losing Wallace would suck, the return could be huge for many years down the road.

Having the extra 1st is such a nice wild card. Look at how the Patriots have handled it.
Trade out of it for a 1st in next years draft and pick up an additional selection in this years draft(2-4rnds). That's money. Then when the draft is thick from top to bottom in the first round, cash it in.

Furthermore, if we could keep Hines for around the same money as Wallaces Tender(2.7mill?), that would go a long way as well. Work it out to re-sign Cotchery and then use a 3-5 rounder on a developmental WR who can play ST to replace Battle.

Then it's Ward, Brown, Sanders, Cotchery and the Rookie(hopefully a good sized one, too)

If Saunders can get his sh!t together, the TE's would be set-Miller and Saunders.

Don't want to see Wallace go to NE. That would suck on many levels. An NFC team would be ideal.

NJ-STEELER
02-11-2012, 01:29 PM
ward is done and sanders cant stay on the field.

that leaves brown and cotch (if he's resigned). is that really what you want to go into big games with?

RuthlessBurgher
02-11-2012, 02:58 PM
I doubt Steelers will strengthen an AFC rival but if Mike Wallace wants top WR money and Cheatroits are willing to give 1st and 3rd i would do the trade.

We've been talking about this very possibilily in Chadman's Draft and Free Agency Thread. We don't have to agree to any trade to lose Wallace. If we give him the highest RFA tender, New England could just offer him a monster deal that we will not be able to match due to cap restraints, and we will have no choice but to lose him for only the 31st overall pick.

Ruthless, I thought the highest tender was a 1st and a 3rd round pick. Has that changed with the new CBA?

Yeah, it changed...a single first round pick is the highest RFA tender now. I just found out about that earlier this week (in Chad's thread). Sucks.

RuthlessBurgher
02-11-2012, 03:03 PM
Of course, if, say, Pittsburgh West really wanted Wallace for instance, I'd do backflips. I'd use Whisenhunt's #13 pick on David DeCastro, then take Alshon Jeffrey with our #24 pick, and Alameda Ta'Amu in round 2, and be one happy fella.

Peanut butta jelly time!

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/188/DancingBannana.gif

aggiebones
02-13-2012, 05:44 PM
While reading this thread, I've bounced back and forth.

Yes, getting 2 first rounders would be nice and could shore up a few spots for years.

...But we have been very lucky lately in the first round. Far luckier than almost every team. We draft late and get a starter every year, for years.
What if we let Wallace go and the G or ILB or whoever we draft ends up mediocre or worse. Then we've really let someone go.

Wallace is a known growing asset of ours. To let him go may be a huge gaff.
Wallace and Brown should end up with healthy contracts. Sign Sanders during his next injury and get him cheaper. His first contract might be running out soon too.

pittpete
02-13-2012, 05:57 PM
Wouldnt trying to sign 2 #1 picks be a little expensive?

Dee Dub
02-13-2012, 06:00 PM
Mike Wallace scores a TD ever 7.125 times he receives a ball, Antonio Brown scores a TD every 42.5 times he receives the ball over their careers.
And Mike Vrabel had a higher percentage of TD's per catch than Hines...

However, these numbers certainly prove which one tends to have the long-ball tossed his way once or twice a game vs which one is the possesion WR.

If i could only have one ingredient of a great WR, personally would rather have guys who help me move the sticks instead of the guy who is an occasional deep threat (i.e., 1 or 2 ATTEMPTED long balls a game). There are a lot of 3rd and 6 or 7's during a game... give me the Hines Ward/Cris Carter and I can find somebody who runs a 4.3 in the next draft.

Comparing Vrabel to Ward in higher TD percentages per reception is forgetting one very important factor. Hines has 85 career to Vrabel's 10. Big difference. Same with Wallace and Brown. 24 to 2 career.

fezziwig
02-13-2012, 06:27 PM
I would take the number one pick for Wallace. Wallace hasn't been that much of a game changer for us. Infact, seldom do I see him being the difference or at least not this past season. My memory is short so, I'm probably wrong.
I won't deny that I would still love to see Brown and Wallce retire as Steelers but, will that ever be possible ?

Oviedo
02-13-2012, 06:48 PM
Of course, if, say, Pittsburgh West really wanted Wallace for instance, I'd do backflips. I'd use Whisenhunt's #13 pick on David DeCastro, then take Alshon Jeffrey with our #24 pick, and Alameda Ta'Amu in round 2, and be one happy fella.

Peanut butta jelly time!

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/188/DancingBannana.gif

I would love getting the three players you identify. That would be a great return for losing Wallace.

Oviedo
02-13-2012, 06:50 PM
Wouldnt trying to sign 2 #1 picks be a little expensive?

Because of the new CBA, it is much more affodable than in the past especially if you are talking two late Round 1 picks. If you were really worried you could package one pick and move out of Round 1 and probably end up with two Round 2 picks. Lots of ways to make it work. They key is having two Round 1 picks to play with and make things happen.

Slapstick
02-14-2012, 10:00 AM
Signing two 1st round picks would be no more expensive (and probably less so) than signing one 1st round pick and Mike Wallace...

Sword
02-14-2012, 10:01 AM
Agreed..please trade for another number 1 pick....

Wallace might be fast but, he expects the ball delivered perfectly in his hands...
As a receiver you have to be aggressive on going after the ball and
defending if the ball is going to be intercepted...

Sword

hawaiiansteel
02-14-2012, 12:19 PM
Steelers could use franchise tag on RFA Wallace

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on February 14, 2012

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/m-wallacetd.jpg?w=250

The Steelers don’t have any unrestricted free agents that would make sense as franchise tag candidates. But they still may use the tag.

Steelers G.M. Kevin Colbert said via Scott Brown the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review that the team hasn’t ruled out placing the tag on restricted free agent Mike Wallace.

“Certainly Mike has done a lot to establish himself as a Pro Bowl receiver, and we want to try to keep Mike here for the long run,” Colbert said.

This is a case where the new CBA may directly lead to more money for elite players like Wallace. In the past, teams were much less likely to consider placing the franchise tag on RFAs because the cost of signing Wallace away from Pittsburgh would have been prohibitive.

The highest tender the Steelers can place on Wallace now is a first-round pick tender. In the past, interested teams needed to cough up a first- and third-round pick plus a new contract to sign away top-shelf restricted free agents.

Essentially, would a team like the Patriots picking late in the first round be willing to give up a first-round pick to sign Wallace? That question has to worry Pittsburgh.

The more we think about it, the more likely it is that the Steelers will eat up some of their cap space by using the tag on Wallace if they can’t reach a long-term deal.

The other alternative is too risky.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... a-wallace/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/14/steelers-could-use-tag-on-rfa-wallace/)

Dee Dub
02-14-2012, 12:52 PM
.......Wallace might be fast but, he expects the ball delivered perfectly in his hands...As a receiver you have to be aggressive on going after the ball and
defending if the ball is going to be intercepted...

Sword

132 receptions over the past two years and 18 TD's makes your comment sound invalid.

Think about it. A little over-reaction maybe?

Dee Dub
02-14-2012, 12:53 PM
I read a report that the Pats maybe targeting Mario Williams of the Texans which would actually fill a greater need for their team.

We shall see.

Oviedo
02-14-2012, 01:01 PM
I read a report that the Pats maybe targeting Mario Williams of the Texans which would actually fill a greater need for their team.

We shall see.

I'm not sure that defense is more of a need. If you watched the Super Bowl, they had no deep threat at all. All the Giants had to do was keep the play in front of them because no one had the ability to go deep. Wleker and Branch are both at the end of their careers and there is no young WR ready to step in for them.

I can see, and hope, they do want Wallace and take him.

steelblood
02-14-2012, 01:30 PM
I keep hearing that we won't be able to replace Wallace
like we'd wouldn't be able to replace Santonio
like we'd wouldn't be able to replace Burress

In todays college football, a third of the teams operate something like a spread offense. There are tons of WR prospects. Finding young WRs and RBs is rarely a problem. This draft is loaded with WRs. No, we likely won't find another Wallace. But, we could draft a speedy WR like Jarious Wright from Arkansas to stretch the field in the third or fourth round. Or we could take a big receiver to be a red zone threat. Or, both!

Dee Dub
02-14-2012, 02:23 PM
I keep hearing that we won't be able to replace Wallace
like we'd wouldn't be able to replace Santonio
like we'd wouldn't be able to replace Burress

In todays college football, a third of the teams operate something like a spread offense. There are tons of WR prospects. Finding young WRs and RBs is rarely a problem. This draft is loaded with WRs. No, we likely won't find another Wallace. But, we could draft a speedy WR like Jarious Wright from Arkansas to stretch the field in the third or fourth round. Or we could take a big receiver to be a red zone threat. Or, both!

Who is saying that? Is that really what you are hearing? My suggestion is take a step back, a deep breathe, and read these posts again. Every player in the game of football can be replaced.

I think what pro-Wallace people are saying (like myself), is why try to replace him? He has continued to improve over every year he has been in the league. He is the number one go to guy, opposing teams are now focused on shutting him down, which has led to is teammates becoming more of a threat, and he has scored twice as many TD's as any other receiver on this team the past couple of years for a team who has had some problems scoring lately. Why would anyone want to replace that?

NW Steeler
02-14-2012, 02:30 PM
My question is what he is worth contract wise and if the Steelers can afford to keep him. Our WR corps will be paper thin without him. But if he is seeking top money in FA, is he worth it? That I question. If someone else wants to offer him a mega-deal and are willing to give up a first round pick to do it, I think he is as good as gone.

phillyesq
02-14-2012, 02:43 PM
.......Wallace might be fast but, he expects the ball delivered perfectly in his hands...As a receiver you have to be aggressive on going after the ball and
defending if the ball is going to be intercepted...

Sword

132 receptions over the past two years and 18 TD's makes your comment sound invalid.

Think about it. A little over-reaction maybe?

Dub, you have an excellent point. Wallace is not a perfect player -- far from it. But, despite his flaws, he has produced very good numbers.

Yes, he faded down the stretch this year, and yes, he needs to do a better job of fighting for the ball. He's not in the Calvin Johnson category, but he's also not in the Johnny Knox category, either, which seems to be where some are placing him.

I'd rather stick with Wallace then see the Steelers spend a first round pick on a WR. Wide receivers seem to be among the more unpredictable picks with a large bust rate among early selections (see Sweed, Limas) and a bit of a learning curve.

Dee Dub
02-14-2012, 02:46 PM
My question is what he is worth contract wise and if the Steelers can afford to keep him. Our WR corps will be paper thin without him. But if he is seeking top money in FA, is he worth it? That I question. If someone else wants to offer him a mega-deal and are willing to give up a first round pick to do it, I think he is as good as gone.

Well Art Rooney II said signing him to a long term contract is the teams priority this off-season. They seem to think he is worth it. I disagree. He will not be gone.

RuthlessBurgher
02-14-2012, 02:48 PM
I read a report that the Pats maybe targeting Mario Williams of the Texans which would actually fill a greater need for their team.

We shall see.

Mario's unrestricted though, so all they'd need to do to sign him would be to offer him a big enough deal that he'd be willing to accept (no draft pick compensation required). It's not as if they could only go after one or the other because they are both restricted.

NW Steeler
02-14-2012, 03:03 PM
[quote="NW Steeler":2uwvadwf]My question is what he is worth contract wise and if the Steelers can afford to keep him. Our WR corps will be paper thin without him. But if he is seeking top money in FA, is he worth it? That I question. If someone else wants to offer him a mega-deal and are willing to give up a first round pick to do it, I think he is as good as gone.

Well Art Rooney II said signing him to a long term contract is the teams priority this off-season. They seem to think he is worth it. I disagree. He will not be gone.[/quote:2uwvadwf]

I saw that too. I'm sure he is a priority. But how much are they willing to pay him and how much is he looking for? I would rather keep him, honestly. If he leaves and Cotchery signs elsewhere, along with the Ward situation, we go from being very deep to having Brown and Sanders - that's it. But at what cost? I guess we will see.

Slapstick
02-14-2012, 04:06 PM
There are always quality role players available for veteran minimum at the end of free agency...

BigRob
02-14-2012, 04:38 PM
Poison Pill is not allowed anymore. That doesn't mean a team couldn't blow us out of the water with a ridiculous deal.


“Poison pill” for offer sheets removed from CBA
Posted by Mike Florio on February 14, 2012, 2:25 PM EST
dv111018 Getty Images

With teams like the Steelers and the Texans facing the departure via restricted free agency of players like Mike Wallace and Arian Foster, respectively, in exchange for merely a first-round draft pick, the question becomes whether teams like the Steelers and the Texans would match an offer sheet signed with a new team by players like by Wallace or Foster, respectively, with a new team.

Embedded in that question is the question of whether the “poison pill” feature devised six years ago by the Vikings, guard Steve Hutchinson, and his agents still exists.

Per a source with intimate knowledge of the new CBA, it doesn’t. The ability of one team to sign a player to an offer sheet and include a term that would, for example, make the entire amount of the contract fully guaranteed if the player plays more than four games in the stadium where his current team plays, has disappeared.

In Hutchinson’s case, the entire amount of his March 2006 offer from the Vikings would have become fully guaranteed if at any point during the life of the deal he hadn’t been the highest-paid offensive lineman on the team. Since former Seahawks left tackle Walter Jones was making more per year than the Vikings had offered Hutchinson, Hutchinson’s full contract would have become guaranteed the moment the Seahawks matched the offer that Minnesota had made.

The so-called “poison pill” was never used again following a tit-for-tat that had the Seahawks take former Vikings receiver Nate Burleson via a similar device (and after, we were told at the time, Vikings and Seahawks executives were dressed down at the next set of league meetings). So, with most teams unwilling to use it, it made sense for the players to give it up in exchange for other concessions at the bargaining table.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -from-cba/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/02/14/poison-pill-for-offer-sheets-removed-from-cba/)

SteelerOfDeVille
02-15-2012, 12:18 AM
[quote="Dee Dub":9t44eqkl]Mike Wallace scores a TD ever 7.125 times he receives a ball, Antonio Brown scores a TD every 42.5 times he receives the ball over their careers.
And Mike Vrabel had a higher percentage of TD's per catch than Hines...

However, these numbers certainly prove which one tends to have the long-ball tossed his way once or twice a game vs which one is the possesion WR.

If i could only have one ingredient of a great WR, personally would rather have guys who help me move the sticks instead of the guy who is an occasional deep threat (i.e., 1 or 2 ATTEMPTED long balls a game). There are a lot of 3rd and 6 or 7's during a game... give me the Hines Ward/Cris Carter and I can find somebody who runs a 4.3 in the next draft.

Comparing Vrabel to Ward in higher TD percentages per reception is forgetting one very important factor. Hines has 85 career to Vrabel's 10. Big difference. Same with Wallace and Brown. 24 to 2 career.[/quote:9t44eqkl]
the point was you cant take an arbitrary stat, throw it on the table and say, "see, he's better. this shows it". I could just as easily said "3rd down catches converted to 1st down" for this past season and said, "see, Brown is better".

Another example: mewelde moore's yards per rush is significantly better than mendenhall's this year. (7.1 vs 4.0). See, he's better.

Stats don't consider down, distance and situation. I know Mewelde tended to be in on 3rd down and ran a lot of draws. Just as I know Mike Wallace was targeted on more deep balls than Brown. That doesn't make him better at what he does. It simply means they have different roles.

NJ-STEELER
02-15-2012, 12:58 AM
dp

NJ-STEELER
02-15-2012, 01:21 AM
Signing two 1st round picks would be no more expensive (and probably less so) than signing one 1st round pick and Mike Wallace...

cam heyward's contract last year (1st year with rookie cap)
four-year, $6.7 million contract

here's the contract of the 24th pick last year
4-year contract that is worth about $7.7 million

we could sign 2-3 #1 picks and be under the amount rumored to what wallace is getting

Dee Dub
02-15-2012, 01:01 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":3qr3hybq]Mike Wallace scores a TD ever 7.125 times he receives a ball, Antonio Brown scores a TD every 42.5 times he receives the ball over their careers.
And Mike Vrabel had a higher percentage of TD's per catch than Hines...

However, these numbers certainly prove which one tends to have the long-ball tossed his way once or twice a game vs which one is the possesion WR.

If i could only have one ingredient of a great WR, personally would rather have guys who help me move the sticks instead of the guy who is an occasional deep threat (i.e., 1 or 2 ATTEMPTED long balls a game). There are a lot of 3rd and 6 or 7's during a game... give me the Hines Ward/Cris Carter and I can find somebody who runs a 4.3 in the next draft.

Comparing Vrabel to Ward in higher TD percentages per reception is forgetting one very important factor. Hines has 85 career to Vrabel's 10. Big difference. Same with Wallace and Brown. 24 to 2 career.
the point was you cant take an arbitrary stat, throw it on the table and say, "see, he's better. this shows it". I could just as easily said "3rd down catches converted to 1st down" for this past season and said, "see, Brown is better".

Another example: mewelde moore's yards per rush is significantly better than mendenhall's this year. (7.1 vs 4.0). See, he's better.

Stats don't consider down, distance and situation. I know Mewelde tended to be in on 3rd down and ran a lot of draws. Just as I know Mike Wallace was targeted on more deep balls than Brown. That doesn't make him better at what he does. It simply means they have different roles.[/quote:3qr3hybq]

I think in this case you can. Very simply put, in the past two years Wallace has 132 receptions and 18 TD's and Brown has 85 receptions and only 2 TD's. And if you want we can use Wallace's first 85 receptions. In those first 85 he had scored 14 TD's.

And the crazy thing about all this? Brown was actually targeted more than Wallace last year.

Case closed.