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View Full Version : Jim Caldwell Coaching Career = JOKE



7 UP
01-29-2012, 04:36 PM
College

Caldwell served as an assistant coach at the University of Iowa, Southern Illinois University, Northwestern, Colorado, Louisville, and Penn State before being named head coach at Wake Forest in 1993. He was the first African-American coach in the ACC.
In eight years, Caldwell had a record of 2663. He installed a powerful passing attack that set numerous school records (many of which have since been broken under his successor, Jim Grobe). However, his teams rarely ran well; in one year the Demon Deacons' leading rusher only notched 300 yards for the entire season. He only had one winning season, in 1999 when the Deacons won the Aloha Bowl.

NFL

Caldwell joined Tony Dungy's staff with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers in 2001 as quarterbacks coach. He followed Dungy to Indianapolis in 2002 and remained with him for his entire tenure. On January 13, 2008, Caldwell was formally announced as Dungy's successor-in-waiting. On January 12, 2009, Dungy announced his retirement, putting Caldwell in the head coaching position.

Thats it. Thats his resume. Read em and weep. Caldwell has never been an NFL OC. He was a college coach at Wake freaking Forest. The running game, and winning percentage during his time there was horrendous. He got handed the Colts job by Dungy. Kind of hard to give the guy any credit there. Peyton calls the plays. As soon as Peyton wasnt there, Caldwell was exposed for the fraud that he is.

Chucktownsteeler
01-29-2012, 04:42 PM
Couldn't agree more. This smacks to high heaven of cronyism, if he gets the job. First, BA is told he is welcomed back next season. Second, Caldwell gets the ax in Indy. Next BA is shown the door and Kugler and Fitchner are rumored to be top candidates, as the Steelers want to promote from within.

Did Tomlin then get a call from his old buddy Caldwell?

I don't know, you tell me.

C-town

:2c

Steelhere10
01-29-2012, 04:46 PM
I don't think the interview is about the OC ... BUT being the QB coach
I believe Randy will get the OC therefore leaving a QB coach to replace...
Come on guys look past them trees. LOL

Chucktownsteeler
01-29-2012, 04:49 PM
I don't think the interview is about the OC ... BUT being the QB coach
I believe Randy will get the OC therefore leaving a QB coach to replace...
Come on guys look past them trees. LOL


I hope you are right. Arguably I don't know a lot about Caldwell, but everything I have read and witnessed his work witout Peyton, the dude blows.

C-town

:wft

Steelhere10
01-29-2012, 04:52 PM
I know Tomlin is smarter than that, The fans would turn on him so fast if he skipped Randy and Caldwell was a failure . His Steelers future would be short if he did that and failed.

7 UP
01-29-2012, 04:53 PM
One thing Cowher always did when he was a coach was surround himself with good people. I love Tomlin as an in game coach, but his staff decisions have always seemed a tad questionable. This will be a HORRIBLE hire. Tomlin better be careful or this could cost him his job somewhere down the road.

The way I see it, we have a chance to hit a homerun here. We need either, A> a young up and coming guy who can come in and bring some fresh ideas, and really poor himself into the job. Or, B> a seasoned veteran OC who has a proven track record of NFL success, and can instill some discipline into what has become a very inconstant offense.

Caldwell is none of these things. I have no doubt Tomlin is going to hire this guy. It makes me sick to my stomach even thinking about it.

Slapstick
01-29-2012, 04:55 PM
Unless he hires Caldwell because Art told him he can't promote Fichtner... :stirpot

Steelhere10
01-29-2012, 05:03 PM
Also think about this, Bruce was finally released when Kirby and Randy was linked to other coaching jobs. Well it won't be Kirby so it will be Randy. Write it down!

7 UP
01-29-2012, 05:05 PM
I don't think the interview is about the OC ... BUT being the QB coach
I believe Randy will get the OC therefore leaving a QB coach to replace...
Come on guys look past them trees. LOL

Jim Caldwell meets with Steelers about coordinator job

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 29, 2012, 2:32 PM EST

AP
The Steelers and Colts may wind up unintentionally trading offensive coaches.

Deposed Steelers offensive coordinator Bruce Arians has landed with the Colts. And dismissed Colts head coach Jim Caldwell may wind up in Pittsburgh.

Jason La Canfora of NFL Network reports that the Steelers interviewed Caldwell for their vacant coordinator position over the weekend. They are considering other candidates as well.

Going with Caldwell would clearly mark a different direction for the Steelers offense. Florio wrote earlier this week about how Ben Roethlisberger could make a power play in an effort to get quarterbacks coach Randy Fichtner elevated to the offensive coordinator job.

The Steelers already showed Roethlisberger his input matters only so much when they got rid of Arians. Choosing Caldwell over an in-house candidate like Fichtner would really hammer the point home.


He is being reported as the leading candidate for OC. There hasnt been any mention of him being QB coach. I dont see him coming here to be a QB coach.

Chucktownsteeler
01-29-2012, 05:06 PM
Also think about this, Bruce was finally released when Kirby and Randy was linked to other coaching jobs. Well it won't be Kirby so it will be Randy. Write it down!

I hope you are right. I think Randy Fitchner is the real deal and will get the job done.

I read a nice piece complimenting him on his game time and half-time adjustments. Something we have sorely missed recently.

C-town

:Beer

7 UP
01-29-2012, 05:09 PM
Im on the fence about Fitchner. I think I would rather go outside the organization for the hire. I just want them to find the right guy.

Slapstick
01-29-2012, 05:11 PM
I don't think the interview is about the OC ... BUT being the QB coach
I believe Randy will get the OC therefore leaving a QB coach to replace...
Come on guys look past them trees. LOL

Jim Caldwell meets with Steelers about coordinator job

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 29, 2012, 2:32 PM EST

AP
The Steelers and Colts may wind up unintentionally trading offensive coaches.

Deposed Steelers offensive coordinator Bruce Arians has landed with the Colts. And dismissed Colts head coach Jim Caldwell may wind up in Pittsburgh.

Jason La Canfora of NFL Network reports that the Steelers interviewed Caldwell for their vacant coordinator position over the weekend. They are considering other candidates as well.

Going with Caldwell would clearly mark a different direction for the Steelers offense. Florio wrote earlier this week about how Ben Roethlisberger could make a power play in an effort to get quarterbacks coach Randy Fichtner elevated to the offensive coordinator job.

The Steelers already showed Roethlisberger his input matters only so much when they got rid of Arians. Choosing Caldwell over an in-house candidate like Fichtner would really hammer the point home.


He is being reported as the leading candidate for OC. There hasnt been any mention of him being QB coach. I dont see him coming here to be a QB coach.

Why not? Have you read about other teams beating down his door for a job? He was QB coach in Indy. He was QB coach in Tampa.

steelblood
01-29-2012, 05:14 PM
One thing Cowher always did when he was a coach was surround himself with good people. I love Tomlin as an in game coach, but his staff decisions have always seemed a tad questionable.

Really?

Tomlin has never hired a coordinator before besides Bruce Arians. Arians was a good decision. He helped develop Ben and got us to two Super Bowls.

Kugler, Al Everest, and Lake sure all seem like excellent hires to me. Tomlin certainly hasn't had success with every coach he has hired, but I would not say his recent decisions have been "questionable." I would say they have been quite good.

Steelhere10
01-29-2012, 05:15 PM
I don't think the interview is about the OC ... BUT being the QB coach
I believe Randy will get the OC therefore leaving a QB coach to replace...
Come on guys look past them trees. LOL

Jim Caldwell meets with Steelers about coordinator job

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 29, 2012, 2:32 PM EST

AP
The Steelers and Colts may wind up unintentionally trading offensive coaches.

Deposed Steelers offensive coordinator Bruce Arians has landed with the Colts. And dismissed Colts head coach Jim Caldwell may wind up in Pittsburgh.

Jason La Canfora of NFL Network reports that the Steelers interviewed Caldwell for their vacant coordinator position over the weekend. They are considering other candidates as well.

Going with Caldwell would clearly mark a different direction for the Steelers offense. Florio wrote earlier this week about how Ben Roethlisberger could make a power play in an effort to get quarterbacks coach Randy Fichtner elevated to the offensive coordinator job.

The Steelers already showed Roethlisberger his input matters only so much when they got rid of Arians. Choosing Caldwell over an in-house candidate like Fichtner would really hammer the point home.


He is being reported as the leading candidate for OC. There hasnt been any mention of him being QB coach. I dont see him coming here to be a QB coach.Is this the same Jason La Canfora that reported BA to be fired 2 years ago... Oh ok :cry:

7 UP
01-29-2012, 05:18 PM
I don't think the interview is about the OC ... BUT being the QB coach
I believe Randy will get the OC therefore leaving a QB coach to replace...
Come on guys look past them trees. LOL

Jim Caldwell meets with Steelers about coordinator job

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 29, 2012, 2:32 PM EST

AP
The Steelers and Colts may wind up unintentionally trading offensive coaches.

Deposed Steelers offensive coordinator Bruce Arians has landed with the Colts. And dismissed Colts head coach Jim Caldwell may wind up in Pittsburgh.

Jason La Canfora of NFL Network reports that the Steelers interviewed Caldwell for their vacant coordinator position over the weekend. They are considering other candidates as well.

Going with Caldwell would clearly mark a different direction for the Steelers offense. Florio wrote earlier this week about how Ben Roethlisberger could make a power play in an effort to get quarterbacks coach Randy Fichtner elevated to the offensive coordinator job.

The Steelers already showed Roethlisberger his input matters only so much when they got rid of Arians. Choosing Caldwell over an in-house candidate like Fichtner would really hammer the point home.


He is being reported as the leading candidate for OC. There hasnt been any mention of him being QB coach. I dont see him coming here to be a QB coach.

Why not? Have you read about other teams beating down his door for a job? He was QB coach in Indy. He was QB coach in Tampa.

Because I dont think he has any interest in the QB coach job. I think he is here to interview as OC. Besides that, I can already see personality crashes happening between he and Ben. Dosent seem like a good fit to me at all..

NJ-STEELER
01-29-2012, 05:18 PM
cowher brought in arians into the organization

steelblood
01-29-2012, 05:20 PM
[quote=Steelhere10]I don't think the interview is about the OC ... BUT being the QB coach
I believe Randy will get the OC therefore leaving a QB coach to replace...
Come on guys look past them trees. LOL

Jim Caldwell meets with Steelers about coordinator job

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on January 29, 2012, 2:32 PM EST

AP
The Steelers and Colts may wind up unintentionally trading offensive coaches.

Deposed Steelers offensive coordinator Bruce Arians has landed with the Colts. And dismissed Colts head coach Jim Caldwell may wind up in Pittsburgh.

Jason La Canfora of NFL Network reports that the Steelers interviewed Caldwell for their vacant coordinator position over the weekend. They are considering other candidates as well.

Going with Caldwell would clearly mark a different direction for the Steelers offense. Florio wrote earlier this week about how Ben Roethlisberger could make a power play in an effort to get quarterbacks coach Randy Fichtner elevated to the offensive coordinator job.

The Steelers already showed Roethlisberger his input matters only so much when they got rid of Arians. Choosing Caldwell over an in-house candidate like Fichtner would really hammer the point home.


He is being reported as the leading candidate for OC. There hasnt been any mention of him being QB coach. I dont see him coming here to be a QB coach.

Why not? Have you read about other teams beating down his door for a job? He was QB coach in Indy. He was QB coach in Tampa.

Because I dont think he has any interest in the QB coach job. I think he is here to interview as OC. Besides that, I can already see personality crashes happening between he and Ben. Dosent seem like a good fit to me at all..[/quote:2vtdxh8j]

The Steelers have not said why he is here. Only media has speculated. At this point, nothing is certain. The media has jumped to the wrong conclusion once or twice before. :wink:

7 UP
01-29-2012, 05:23 PM
One thing Cowher always did when he was a coach was surround himself with good people. I love Tomlin as an in game coach, but his staff decisions have always seemed a tad questionable.

Really?

Tomlin has never hired a coordinator before besides Bruce Arians. Arians was a good decision. He helped develop Ben and got us to two Super Bowls.

Kugler, Al Everest, and Lake sure all seem like excellent hires to me. Tomlin certainly hasn't had success with every coach he has hired, but I would not say his recent decisions have been "questionable." I would say they have been quite good.

How about Larry Zierlien and Bob Ligashesky? Were those good hires?

Snatch98
01-29-2012, 05:27 PM
Honestly I still don't and may never understand why we as a fan base can't put faith in the institution that is the Pittsburgh Steelers. Tomlin is a very savvy Coach. The Rooney's are fantastic owners. Tomlin is not going to make a decision that is detrimental to the team. He hasn't yet and he isn't going to start now. I don't see the Rooney's doing this either. I will say that I find all of this absolutely hysterical because a majority of the fan base has been clamoring for Arians to go (I've been one of them) and now that he's gone Chicken little just bought his first terrible towel and is down on the point running around the broken fountain.

Give it a rest guys. I know it's the offseason and we're bored, but the Steelers will make the right decision on the coordinator openings. If Bulter leaves the Steelers will figure it out. Most once again wanted Arians gone and now he's gone. WHY are so many pissing and moaning. Let's play the wait and see game and WAIT A F'in SEE!

Slapstick
01-29-2012, 05:28 PM
[quote="7 UP":1t0nn6jn]One thing Cowher always did when he was a coach was surround himself with good people. I love Tomlin as an in game coach, but his staff decisions have always seemed a tad questionable.

Really?

Tomlin has never hired a coordinator before besides Bruce Arians. Arians was a good decision. He helped develop Ben and got us to two Super Bowls.

Kugler, Al Everest, and Lake sure all seem like excellent hires to me. Tomlin certainly hasn't had success with every coach he has hired, but I would not say his recent decisions have been "questionable." I would say they have been quite good.

How about Larry Zierlien and Bob Ligashesky? Were those good hires?[/quote:1t0nn6jn]

I would think that Zierlien and Ligashesky do not qualify as "recent decisions" and more along the "hasn't had success with every coach he has hired", which was addressed in the post you quoted in your response...

NJ-STEELER
01-29-2012, 05:29 PM
[quote="7 UP":28na9pg7]One thing Cowher always did when he was a coach was surround himself with good people. I love Tomlin as an in game coach, but his staff decisions have always seemed a tad questionable.

Really?

Tomlin has never hired a coordinator before besides Bruce Arians. Arians was a good decision. He helped develop Ben and got us to two Super Bowls.

Kugler, Al Everest, and Lake sure all seem like excellent hires to me. Tomlin certainly hasn't had success with every coach he has hired, but I would not say his recent decisions have been "questionable." I would say they have been quite good.

How about Larry Zierlien and Bob Ligashesky? Were those good hires?[/quote:28na9pg7]

cowher held up his plans until mid january. when he didnt get what he wanted, he quit. it was late in the process as a lot of assistents were already in place.

left the new staff with little to choose from

Snatch98
01-29-2012, 05:30 PM
[quote="7 UP":2xmtqtaa]One thing Cowher always did when he was a coach was surround himself with good people. I love Tomlin as an in game coach, but his staff decisions have always seemed a tad questionable.

Really?

Tomlin has never hired a coordinator before besides Bruce Arians. Arians was a good decision. He helped develop Ben and got us to two Super Bowls.

Kugler, Al Everest, and Lake sure all seem like excellent hires to me. Tomlin certainly hasn't had success with every coach he has hired, but I would not say his recent decisions have been "questionable." I would say they have been quite good.

How about Larry Zierlien and Bob Ligashesky? Were those good hires?[/quote:2xmtqtaa]

Get the hell out of here with this sh.it. Kugler, Coach Z's replacement has been fantastic. Who found him? Chicken little doesn't live OR belong in the Pittsburgh sports arena. If you're trying to embody that way of thinking take it to Cleveland where it belongs. The STeelers will be just fine, like they always are because of fantastic coaching, terrific owners and a city that stands behind both. End of story.

7 UP
01-29-2012, 05:56 PM
LOL at your Chicken Little nonsense. Thanks for the chuckle. I am 100% glad BA is gone. I think it needed to happen for this offense to reach its full potential.

Just because I wanted BA to be gone, dosent mean I would rather anybody but him have the job. I would take BA back any day of the week over Caldwell.

Its funny that you mention the Cleveland Browns. What separates us from them is sound ownership that makes the right decisions. Im not sure who will be calling the shots here, if its Tomlin, or Colbert, or Art. But if they give Tomlin free reign to just bring in Caldwell and let him run the offense, that will be a horrendous mistake. The way I see it is we have another 4 or 5 year window with Ben as QB. Take your time and hire the right guy, and maybe we get another 1 or 2 rings in that span.

Snatch98
01-29-2012, 06:03 PM
LOL at your Chicken Little nonsense. Thanks for the chuckle. I am 100% glad BA is gone. I think it needed to happen for this offense to reach its full potential.

Just because I wanted BA to be gone, dosent mean I would rather anybody but him have the job. I would take BA back any day of the week over Caldwell.

Its funny that you mention the Cleveland Browns. What separates us from them is sound ownership that makes the right decisions. Im not sure who will be calling the shots here, if its Tomlin, or Colbert, or Art. But if they give Tomlin free reign to just bring in Caldwell and let him run the offense, that will be a horrendous mistake. The way I see it is we have another 4 or 5 year window with Ben as QB. Take your time and hire the right guy, and maybe we get another 1 or 2 rings in that span.

I agree with your last point 100%. The team needs to take it's time and hire the right guy. However I think some are up in arms for no reason. The articles have said Caldwell is being talked to about a Coordinator position. It doesn't mean he's being talked to for the offensive coordinator position. It could be the Quarterbacks coach, it could be a professional courtesy. We don't know because we aren't Steeler brass. I'm confident the right decision will be made. We just need to wait and see.

7 UP
01-29-2012, 06:09 PM
[quote="7 UP":2m7128r4]One thing Cowher always did when he was a coach was surround himself with good people. I love Tomlin as an in game coach, but his staff decisions have always seemed a tad questionable.

Really?

Tomlin has never hired a coordinator before besides Bruce Arians. Arians was a good decision. He helped develop Ben and got us to two Super Bowls.

Kugler, Al Everest, and Lake sure all seem like excellent hires to me. Tomlin certainly hasn't had success with every coach he has hired, but I would not say his recent decisions have been "questionable." I would say they have been quite good.

How about Larry Zierlien and Bob Ligashesky? Were those good hires?

I would think that Zierlien and Ligashesky do not qualify as "recent decisions" and more along the "hasn't had success with every coach he has hired", which was addressed in the post you quoted in your response...[/quote:2m7128r4]

Recent decisions? How could it not be? Tomlin only has 5 seasons under his belt. All his decisions are recent. Cmon dude. Was it right to show Darren Perry the door for Horton? Was that a good call? Maybe are secondary would have been a little better if Perry was retained. Look how well the DBs performed under Perry this year. So Horton was a bad hire too if you ask me.

You guys are making me out to be a Tomlin hater, and that couldnt be further from the truth. There isnt a HC in the NFL I would rather have. All I said is that his coaching hires havent always been the best. Now Lake, Kuglar, and Everest have been upgrades. I dont recall ever saying they werent.

Chadman
01-29-2012, 06:32 PM
Going to go against the grain a little here & say this-

Jim Caldwell is the OC most likely to let Ben play in a style that Ben is comfortable playing. As the QB/HC coach at Tampa (Brad Johnson) & Indy (Peyton's Place), Caldwell has given the QB a lot of room to make their own decisions & have their own input on gameday & before.

One thing we've agreed on in the past is that Ben IS the offense, and the gameplan really needs to be tailored to suit his game. It is funny to Chadman that as a group, we can be so smart & knowledgable some days, but at the same time we want an OC that takes the ball out of Ben's hands & puts it in the hands of Mendy (some on here want Mendy gone) or Redman (really? The focal point of the offense?) more often.

It might be partly the way what Rooney said about getting back to the blue collar offense that makes us think we need to go back to running more- but reality will dictate that the way Arians had the Steelers going on offense really was the best direction, given the players at hand.

And while we are putting forward misleading information- let's just look at the RB history of the Colts during Caldwell's time as Assistant HC- you see, from 2002 until 2005 the Colts had this RB call Edgerrin James, who ran for roughly 1,500 yards a season. That was the first RB Caldwell had to work with at Indy. 2006 saw rookie Joseph Addai & Dominic Rhodes split 1,600 yards running. 2007 had Addai running for another 1,000 yard season. 2008 (Caldwell's last as Assistant HC) had Addai & Rhodes split 1,000 yards running & 500 yards recieving. 2009 (Caldwell's first as HC) had Addai running for 800 yards & catching for 300 yards as Peyton threw for 4,500 yards on the year. 2010 had Addai & Donald Brown split 900 yards running & 300 yards catching while Peyton threw for 4,700 yards on the year. 2011 had Addai, Brown & Delone Carter split 1,500 yards as Peyton missed a season & such esteemed QB's as Curtis Paynter. So with no passing game to speak of, Caldwell had his team run the ball better than previously.

It's not that teams run by Caldwell in the NFL don't run. It's just that his teams put the ball in the hands of the guys that are better playmakers.

The question is- does Caldwell call better plays than Arians?

If yes, then Caldwell is an upgrade of a similar system.

NorthCoast
01-29-2012, 07:16 PM
[quote="7 UP":rlozh52c]One thing Cowher always did when he was a coach was surround himself with good people. I love Tomlin as an in game coach, but his staff decisions have always seemed a tad questionable.

Really?

Tomlin has never hired a coordinator before besides Bruce Arians. Arians was a good decision. He helped develop Ben and got us to two Super Bowls.

Kugler, Al Everest, and Lake sure all seem like excellent hires to me. Tomlin certainly hasn't had success with every coach he has hired, but I would not say his recent decisions have been "questionable." I would say they have been quite good.

How about Larry Zierlien and Bob Ligashesky? Were those good hires?[/quote:rlozh52c]

No. But Tomlin recognized his mistake and they were gone. Give him credit for that much.

Chucktownsteeler
01-29-2012, 07:22 PM
It is my thought that Ben could use an OC that will not give him so much free reign on the offense. if that's the case with Caldwell, just another reason not to hire him. I think Ben may need a little more discipline.

Also, about coaches from the Cleveland Browns, didn't both Chas Noll and Bill Cowher have conections to the stains?

ChucktownSteeler

:tt1

7 UP
01-29-2012, 07:50 PM
[quote="7 UP":1hjrgrke]One thing Cowher always did when he was a coach was surround himself with good people. I love Tomlin as an in game coach, but his staff decisions have always seemed a tad questionable.

Really?

Tomlin has never hired a coordinator before besides Bruce Arians. Arians was a good decision. He helped develop Ben and got us to two Super Bowls.

Kugler, Al Everest, and Lake sure all seem like excellent hires to me. Tomlin certainly hasn't had success with every coach he has hired, but I would not say his recent decisions have been "questionable." I would say they have been quite good.

How about Larry Zierlien and Bob Ligashesky? Were those good hires?

No. But Tomlin recognized his mistake and they were gone. Give him credit for that much.[/quote:1hjrgrke]

I do give him credit for that. Kugler and Everast have been great. The Lake hire was also a great hire.

7 UP
01-29-2012, 07:52 PM
By the way, all I said was that some of Tomlins staff hires were a tad questionable. Some of you guys are acting like I called for him to be fired.

7 UP
01-29-2012, 07:53 PM
It is my thought that Ben could use an OC that will not give him so much free reign on the offense. if that's the case with Caldwell, just another reason not to hire him. I think Ben may need a little more discipline.


ChucktownSteeler

:tt1

Bingo!!! Well said and exactly how I feel about it.

Oviedo
01-29-2012, 08:10 PM
It is my thought that Ben could use an OC that will not give him so much free reign on the offense. if that's the case with Caldwell, just another reason not to hire him. I think Ben may need a little more discipline.


ChucktownSteeler

:tt1

Bingo!!! Well said and exactly how I feel about it.

Ben is not some 23 year old rookie. Even when he was a rookie he had serious issues with another disciplinarian named Whisenhunt. Ben did not blossom as a franchise QB until that type of OC left. Why would anyone think that they will put the genie back in the bottle and expect it to work.

What you need is a OC who will let Ben be Ben but surround him with the supporting cast that will protect him. We have handed out 100s of millions in long term contracts to defensive players over the past two off seasons. If you don't do that for the offensive line it won't matter who the OC is because they can't be successful and all we will do is read b!tching and complaining about the next guy.

IMO Arians wasn't terrible, he just never had the type of OL he needed to do the things he wanted to do and his biggest fault was he never adjusted accordingly.

7 UP
01-29-2012, 08:19 PM
Going to go against the grain a little here & say this-

Jim Caldwell is the OC most likely to let Ben play in a style that Ben is comfortable playing. As the QB/HC coach at Tampa (Brad Johnson) & Indy (Peyton's Place), Caldwell has given the QB a lot of room to make their own decisions & have their own input on gameday & before.

One thing we've agreed on in the past is that Ben IS the offense, and the gameplan really needs to be tailored to suit his game. It is funny to Chadman that as a group, we can be so smart & knowledgable some days, but at the same time we want an OC that takes the ball out of Ben's hands & puts it in the hands of Mendy (some on here want Mendy gone) or Redman (really? The focal point of the offense?) more often.

It might be partly the way what Rooney said about getting back to the blue collar offense that makes us think we need to go back to running more- but reality will dictate that the way Arians had the Steelers going on offense really was the best direction, given the players at hand.

And while we are putting forward misleading information- let's just look at the RB history of the Colts during Caldwell's time as Assistant HC- you see, from 2002 until 2005 the Colts had this RB call Edgerrin James, who ran for roughly 1,500 yards a season. That was the first RB Caldwell had to work with at Indy. 2006 saw rookie Joseph Addai & Dominic Rhodes split 1,600 yards running. 2007 had Addai running for another 1,000 yard season. 2008 (Caldwell's last as Assistant HC) had Addai & Rhodes split 1,000 yards running & 500 yards recieving. 2009 (Caldwell's first as HC) had Addai running for 800 yards & catching for 300 yards as Peyton threw for 4,500 yards on the year. 2010 had Addai & Donald Brown split 900 yards running & 300 yards catching while Peyton threw for 4,700 yards on the year. 2011 had Addai, Brown & Delone Carter split 1,500 yards as Peyton missed a season & such esteemed QB's as Curtis Paynter. So with no passing game to speak of, Caldwell had his team run the ball better than previously.

It's not that teams run by Caldwell in the NFL don't run. It's just that his teams put the ball in the hands of the guys that are better playmakers.

The question is- does Caldwell call better plays than Arians?

If yes, then Caldwell is an upgrade of a similar system.

Chadman

I agree with you that Ben is the offense. Personally, I actually would like to throw the ball even more than we do now. This offense has the talent to do great things. But, Ben needs to take the next step in his game. That means knowing when to take what the defense gives you. For instance, how many times has a sack knocked us out of field goal range? Theres times when Ben needs to know when to say when. I dont want to change Ben. I want him to play smarter and take another step in his career. I want him to take the same step that Elway took towards the end of his career. If you remember correctly Elway made a lot of plays outside the pocket early in his career. But as Elways career progressed and he became a veteran player, he learned to be patient and take what the defense gave him. Elways progression as a player the last few years of his career led to two Super Bowls.

Your point about Jim Caldwell is exactly what I dont want. I want an offensive system in here that dosent always require Ben to make plays all on his own. A lot of times Ben made Ariens look good. There has been a lot of times where Ben is forced to make plays, because the called play didnt get anyone open. If there is better playcalling, Ben will have to do less on his own. Caldwell has no experience calling plays.

Caldwell did not call plays in Indy or TB. The OC in Indy during Caldwells time as QB coach was Tom Moore. And lets face it, Peyton calls 90% of the plays in Indy. Im not sure why your giving Caldwell any credit at all for calling plays. And as for Edgerin James, how do you figure Caldwell as a QB coach had anything to do with his success as a RB?

IMHO JIm Caldwell = Ray Sherman.

Chadman
01-29-2012, 08:26 PM
All those who are calling for 'more discipline' are confusing Chadman.

What are you looking for from him? Less interceptions? Stats will say- Ben is pretty much on par with the other statring QB's in the NFL as far as interceptions go. Certainly not so much worse that it's a problem.

Less sacks? Isn't that also on the OL?

More running? Isn't that on the OC?

The only thing that 'discipline' could improve is his decision making- and that's no guarentee.

If what we are, in fact, asking for is for Ben to play a more traditional "Pocket QB" role, you run the risk of taking the part of Ben that makes him special & turning him into a sub-Ben QB.

7 UP
01-29-2012, 08:28 PM
It is my thought that Ben could use an OC that will not give him so much free reign on the offense. if that's the case with Caldwell, just another reason not to hire him. I think Ben may need a little more discipline.


ChucktownSteeler

:tt1

Bingo!!! Well said and exactly how I feel about it.

Ben is not some 23 year old rookie. Even when he was a rookie he had serious issues with another disciplinarian named Whisenhunt. Ben did not blossom as a franchise QB until that type of OC left. Why would anyone think that they will put the genie back in the bottle and expect it to work.

What you need is a OC who will let Ben be Ben but surround him with the supporting cast that will protect him. We have handed out 100s of millions in long term contracts to defensive players over the past two off seasons. If you don't do that for the offensive line it won't matter who the OC is because they can't be successful and all we will do is read b!tching and complaining about the next guy.

IMO Arians wasn't terrible, he just never had the type of OL he needed to do the things he wanted to do and his biggest fault was he never adjusted accordingly.

Ben made Ariens look, waaaaaaaay better than he ever was. Im not saying Ben needs babysat. Im saying we need a more effective offense. If we get better playcalling, Ben wont have to wing it as much.

Chadman
01-29-2012, 08:33 PM
Caldwell did not call plays in Indy or TB. The OC in Indy during Caldwells time as QB coach was Tom Moore. And lets face it, Peyton calls 90% of the plays in Indy. Im not sure why your giving Caldwell any credit at all for calling plays. And as for Edgerin James, how do you figure Caldwell as a QB coach had anything to do with his success as a RB?

Merely pointing out that teams Caldwell has been a part of in the NFL have not been based solely around the pass, despite the firm belief that his running game is an abject failure.

And while he wasn't the OC or the HC, he was the assistant HC, which leads Chadman to believe he wasn't completely out of the playcalling loop.

And we act as if Manning is the only QB that calls his own plays....most high-priced QB's are calling their own plays to some degree.

7 UP
01-29-2012, 08:34 PM
All those who are calling for 'more discipline' are confusing Chadman.

What are you looking for from him? Less interceptions? Stats will say- Ben is pretty much on par with the other statring QB's in the NFL as far as interceptions go. Certainly not so much worse that it's a problem.

Less sacks? Isn't that also on the OL?

More running? Isn't that on the OC?

The only thing that 'discipline' could improve is his decision making- and that's no guarentee.

If what we are, in fact, asking for is for Ben to play a more traditional "Pocket QB" role, you run the risk of taking the part of Ben that makes him special & turning him into a sub-Ben QB.

What Im saying is Im sick and tired of an offense that based on broken plays. At times our offense has been flat out horrible. I blame BA for this. This has been the case for much of BAs career as OC here. All I want to see is an offense that has the ability to put together a methodical 60 yard drive and score a TD on a consistent basis. Right now I cant say we have that. Better offense, better Ben in my opinion. Maybe its misleading to say discipline.

Chadman
01-29-2012, 08:37 PM
[quote=Chucktownsteeler]It is my thought that Ben could use an OC that will not give him so much free reign on the offense. if that's the case with Caldwell, just another reason not to hire him. I think Ben may need a little more discipline.


ChucktownSteeler

:tt1

Bingo!!! Well said and exactly how I feel about it.

Ben is not some 23 year old rookie. Even when he was a rookie he had serious issues with another disciplinarian named Whisenhunt. Ben did not blossom as a franchise QB until that type of OC left. Why would anyone think that they will put the genie back in the bottle and expect it to work.

What you need is a OC who will let Ben be Ben but surround him with the supporting cast that will protect him. We have handed out 100s of millions in long term contracts to defensive players over the past two off seasons. If you don't do that for the offensive line it won't matter who the OC is because they can't be successful and all we will do is read b!tching and complaining about the next guy.

IMO Arians wasn't terrible, he just never had the type of OL he needed to do the things he wanted to do and his biggest fault was he never adjusted accordingly.

Ben made Ariens look, waaaaaaaay better than he ever was. Im not saying Ben needs babysat. Im saying we need a more effective offense. If we get better playcalling, Ben wont have to wing it as much.[/quote:38blex1q]

So what's to say Caldwell doesn't call a better game? Arians would have had a more effective offense, if his OL could run block consistantly. Forget pass blocking- Ben's style of play leads to more sacks. But if you could rely on the running game blocking, you could call running plays more often. That'd give you a better balance. That would lead to less sacks. That would lead to better playcalling.

Regardless of who we put in at OC, if the running game can't go effectively, the OC will be a failure.

And that'll come right back on the OL.

Chadman
01-29-2012, 08:40 PM
Not saying we need to run more- just run more effectively.

Get the interior OL fixed, Chadman reckons Ray Sherman would get this team winning.

7 UP
01-29-2012, 08:48 PM
The O-Line is a huge problem. I cant argue with you there. No matter who gets the job, we need to make improvements to our offensive front. That being said, better playcalling will open up the run game. The use of a pure FB more often will help open up the run game.

And just to be clear, I dont want to run more. I am all for running less. Look at our current personnel. We are built to be a passing team. I say we use the pass to open up the run. What we need is consistency. I guess thats a better word than discipline.

Chadman
01-29-2012, 09:07 PM
That being said, better playcalling will open up the run game. The use of a pure FB more often will help open up the run game.

Pretty sure this is where the disagreements are.

It's a chicken & egg debate- will the playcalling improve the run game/OL blocking or is the playcalling hindered by the OL play?

Here's Chadman's take- the talent is there, both running & passing. But we see defensive players causing tremendous pressure in both the run & pass game seemingly at ease. Is the playcalling to blame? Did arians call too many drawn-out plays? Prehaps. But at the same time, if Arians called a game dependant on the OL play, the Steelers would produce the most predicatable short yardage passing offense of all time- as it would be about the limit of time the OL gives in protection.

Fact is- Arians SHOULD have re-designed the playbook to facilitate the weakness of the OL more. No doubt about it.

However, with guys like Wallace & Brown at WR & Mendenhall at RB, the team was loaded with finesse strike power. Best way to utilize these guys is with open fields & deep plays- Ben's specialty.

So Arians wanted to play to Ben's strengths, to utilise the weapons he had- but was unable to run it consistantly due to the OL.

Again- he SHOULD have adapted to suit this.

However- the Steelers should also have realised that the best way to use the weapons at their disposal was to give Arians an OL that could function.

Thing is- no system implemented in Pittsburgh will work effectively while the interior OL is a problem. But if the interior OL is fixed, then an Arians style offense would work.

So if the Steelers choose Caldwell, Fitchner, Kuglar or Joe Montana- their success will be determined by the end of training camp when we see who/how the Steelers improved the OL.

papillon
01-30-2012, 12:46 AM
All those who are calling for 'more discipline' are confusing Chadman.

What are you looking for from him? Less interceptions? Stats will say- Ben is pretty much on par with the other statring QB's in the NFL as far as interceptions go. Certainly not so much worse that it's a problem.

Less sacks? Isn't that also on the OL?

More running? Isn't that on the OC?

The only thing that 'discipline' could improve is his decision making- and that's no guarentee.

If what we are, in fact, asking for is for Ben to play a more traditional "Pocket QB" role, you run the risk of taking the part of Ben that makes him special & turning him into a sub-Ben QB.

Or, they risk turning him into the quarterback that sliced up the Patriots this year, just sayin, there is another side to the story.

Pappy

NJ-STEELER
01-30-2012, 02:15 AM
ravens hired him as QB coach

Chucktownsteeler
01-30-2012, 07:31 AM
All those who are calling for 'more discipline' are confusing Chadman.

What are you looking for from him? Less interceptions? Stats will say- Ben is pretty much on par with the other statring QB's in the NFL as far as interceptions go. Certainly not so much worse that it's a problem.

Less sacks? Isn't that also on the OL?

More running? Isn't that on the OC?

The only thing that 'discipline' could improve is his decision making- and that's no guarentee.

If what we are, in fact, asking for is for Ben to play a more traditional "Pocket QB" role, you run the risk of taking the part of Ben that makes him special & turning him into a sub-Ben QB.

In calling for a more "disciplined" Ben, Chucktown merely means he needs to have an OC that:

1.) Will encourage him to take what the defense gives (i.e RB in the flat, go through your progressions).

2.) Throw the ball away if there is no one is open. (i.e 2 and 10 is beter than 2 and 18).

3.) Don't throw the ball "up for grabs" into double and triple coverage.

4.) Watch some game film. It is cool to do so.

Chucktown is simply pointing out at time it appears Ben is the addict and Bruce was the enabler. Chucktown does want to see the same amount, if not more passing, but Chucktown would like to see Ben be more careful with the ball, especially in the redzone and when the pocket has collapsed.

That all Chucktown would like.

ChucktownSteeler

:2c

7 UP
01-30-2012, 09:37 AM
All those who are calling for 'more discipline' are confusing Chadman.

What are you looking for from him? Less interceptions? Stats will say- Ben is pretty much on par with the other statring QB's in the NFL as far as interceptions go. Certainly not so much worse that it's a problem.

Less sacks? Isn't that also on the OL?

More running? Isn't that on the OC?

The only thing that 'discipline' could improve is his decision making- and that's no guarentee.

If what we are, in fact, asking for is for Ben to play a more traditional "Pocket QB" role, you run the risk of taking the part of Ben that makes him special & turning him into a sub-Ben QB.

In calling for a more "disciplined" Ben, Chucktown merely means he needs to have an OC that:

1.) Will encourage him to take what the defense gives (i.e RB in the flat, go through your progressions).

2.) Throw the ball away if there is no one is open. (i.e 2 and 10 is beter than 2 and 18).

3.) Don't throw the ball "up for grabs" into double and triple coverage.

4.) Watch some game film. It is cool to do so.

Chucktown is simply pointing out at time it appears Ben is the addict and Bruce was the enabler. Chucktown does want to see the same amount, if not more passing, but Chucktown would like to see Ben be more careful with the ball, especially in the redzone and when the pocket has collapsed.

That all Chucktown would like.

ChucktownSteeler

:2c

Chucktown, for the second time in this thread, said exactly what I was trying to say. Im going to have to hire him to be my PR guy. :tt2

7 UP
01-30-2012, 09:39 AM
ravens hired him as QB coach

Thank Goodness for that!!!

papillon
01-30-2012, 10:39 AM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":1k6qnpsj]ravens hired him as QB coach

Thank Goodness for that!!![/quote:1k6qnpsj]

Wow, from head coach to quarterback coach in a single season. I'm glad the Steelers didn't hire him as their OC.

Now if they can avoid Fichtner and go outside the organization and hire an OC the same way they seem to hire head coaches that would be great.

Pappy

Oviedo
01-30-2012, 12:11 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":3l2gc9up]ravens hired him as QB coach

Thank Goodness for that!!!

Wow, from head coach to quarterback coach in a single season. I'm glad the Steelers didn't hire him as their OC.

Now if they can avoid Fichtner and go outside the organization and hire an OC the same way they seem to hire head coaches that would be great.

Pappy[/quote:3l2gc9up]


I'm hoping that Tomlin was picking Caldwell's brain about how good an OC Clyde Christensen would be.

Or it could be that two friends just went out to dinner together. Imagine how outrageous that would be. Aren't they suppose to have no life except to fullfil the needs of fans? :stirpot

Slapstick
01-30-2012, 12:40 PM
Wow, from head coach to quarterback coach in a single season. I'm glad the Steelers didn't hire him as their OC.

Pappy

Why is that so surprising? He went from QB coach to Head Coach in a single season...he has never been a coordinator at any level...

I never thought he was in the running for OC @ Pittsburgh, despite what the news media would have you think...

I don't want the Steelers to avoid Fichtner...They avoided promoting coordinators from within in the past (Ray Sherman, Kevin Gilbride) to somewhat disastrous results...

Heck, Tomlin even promoted from within when he took over as HC...

If the basic offensive philosophy wasn't working, I would say bring in someone from the inside...but, that isn't the case...

Also, Tomlin probably knows what kind of OC Christiansen is because Christiansen was OC in Tampa when Tomlin was DB coach...

RuthlessBurgher
01-30-2012, 01:24 PM
Wow, from head coach to quarterback coach in a single season. I'm glad the Steelers didn't hire him as their OC.

Pappy

Why is that so surprising? He went from QB coach to Head Coach in a single season...he has never been a coordinator at any level...

I never thought he was in the running for OC @ Pittsburgh, despite what the news media would have you think...

I don't want the Steelers to avoid Fichtner...They avoided promoting coordinators from within in the past (Ray Sherman, Kevin Gilbride) to somewhat disastrous results...

Heck, Tomlin even promoted from within when he took over as HC...

If the basic offensive philosophy wasn't working, I would say bring in someone from the inside...but, that isn't the case...

Also, Tomlin probably knows what kind of OC Christiansen is because Christiansen was OC in Tampa when Tomlin was DB coach...

Same thing with Raheem Morris...went from DB coach to head coach and now back to a DB coach again.