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View Full Version : Offensive Line types that we need....



Sword
01-27-2012, 09:25 AM
Are biggest weakness as been the offensive line so..
What kind of Offensive line do we need?

Lets look at past Offensive lines from teams that have been Epic..

hogs from 1983 is my favorite.

Feel free to list your favorite, this is mine....

The original Hogs
Joe Jacoby: Position: T-G Height: 6-7 Weight: 305 lbs.
George Starke: Position: T Height: 6-5 Weight: 260 lbs.
Russ Grimm: Position: G-C Height: 6-3 Weight: 273 lbs.
Mark May: Position: G-T-C Height: 6-6 Weight: 295 lbs.
Jeff Bostic: Position: C Height: 6-2 Weight: 268 lbs.
Don Warren: Position: TE Height: 6-4 Weight: 242 lbs.
Rick Walker: Position: TE Height: 6-4 Weight: 235 lbs.

Sword

phillyesq
01-27-2012, 09:56 AM
I watched the DVD from the season leading to the SB against Seattle recently. One thing that impressed me was the power and athleticism of the Steelers lineman. You saw effective screen passes because you had guys that could get out front and move. You had Faneca leading runs all over the place.

I'd love a big guy up front, somebody that can move the Ngatas of the world, but I'd also really love to see the Steelers bring in some offensive lineman with athleticism.

pfelix73
01-27-2012, 10:06 AM
We have that now with both Legs at LG and Pouncey at C. Remember all of the pulls, etc that Dawson used to do? Well, Pouncey and Legs are more than capable of doing the same thing. People don't realize this, but strength-wise, Legs is just about the strongest man on the entire team. (I say just about, because I'm not sure about Harrison- James might be the main beast in the weight room, but Legs is right there- based off of what Wolfley says) Both Legs and Pouncey are quick as hell too, or they wouldn't be where they are today...So, they are both athletic enough to get the job done.

Anyway, it's all in what the OC wants to do. That was BA's fault for not calling more screens, etc. Now he's history, so good riddens to him.

It's gonna depend on what direction this team goes in. If Rooney wants us to go back to a more traditional style of offense with running the ball- which to be honest- I 110% agree with, then we're gonna have to stay with what we got- more run blocking OLmen. Our problem has been that some of these OLmen are just avg. pass blockers. So, if BA would've stayed and pushed the passing game even more, sure, we'd be better off upgrading a few spots up front, but with Colon coming back, I think we're fine up front. Would be nice to add some competition at OG to push Foster though.

I still say if they got a freaking real FB in there, that would help out tremendously as well.. And throw in another TE who can block on the LOS.....

:tt1

phillyesq
01-27-2012, 10:21 AM
Anyway, it's all in what the OC wants to do. That was BA's fault for not calling more screens, etc. Now he's history, so good riddens to him.
:tt1

Part of it is playcalling, but I can't really see Foster or Essex or some of those guys out leading a screen.

pfelix73
01-27-2012, 10:33 AM
Agreed. However, I do remember a few nice plays that Foster actually had a couple of years ago when he was playing LG. But yea, overall, I agree on your assessment of those 2.....

:tt1

steelz09
01-27-2012, 10:56 AM
We have that now with both Legs at LG and Pouncey at C. Remember all of the pulls, etc that Dawson used to do? Well, Pouncey and Legs are more than capable of doing the same thing. People don't realize this, but strength-wise, Legs is just about the strongest man on the entire team. (I say just about, because I'm not sure about Harrison- James might be the main beast in the weight room, but Legs is right there- based off of what Wolfley says) Both Legs and Pouncey are quick as hell too, or they wouldn't be where they are today...So, they are both athletic enough to get the job done.

Anyway, it's all in what the OC wants to do. That was BA's fault for not calling more screens, etc. Now he's history, so good riddens to him.

It's gonna depend on what direction this team goes in. If Rooney wants us to go back to a more traditional style of offense with running the ball- which to be honest- I 110% agree with, then we're gonna have to stay with what we got- more run blocking OLmen. Our problem has been that some of these OLmen are just avg. pass blockers. So, if BA would've stayed and pushed the passing game even more, sure, we'd be better off upgrading a few spots up front, but with Colon coming back, I think we're fine up front. Would be nice to add some competition at OG to push Foster though.

I still say if they got a freaking real FB in there, that would help out tremendously as well.. And throw in another TE who can block on the LOS.....

:tt1

I wouldn't put Pouncey and Dawson is the same breadth. Although I do like Legs, he is not even close to a Faneca.

pick6
01-27-2012, 11:06 AM
This is interesting. Right now I really disagree with you but you say some things that make me think. I dont know. I really think Legs is a back up and should not be starting against the guys we have to fight every week. Legs is an overachiever, which is awesome. Its just that as soon as he does something good, he gets blown to smithereens the next play. I know this is the NFL and it happens to the best of them from time to time. I just really think we need another excellent player at the guard position.

I want guys who can handle playoff situations when the opponent just decides that on top of his all world ability he is going to play like he has never played before a la Vince Wilfork last week. I was not expecting that at all. Legs... he's a keeper but I just think we can do much better as a starter. People have excellent Dlineman these days and I want an oline that can consistently neutralize if not dominate the opponent. We need to excel on the oline. Right now we seem to be just getting by.

One or two more sound players away. I say draft one early at guard position if he's there and can upgrade to position quickly.

Quick question, do you trust that colon is all healed up and can stay healthy?
Also what do you think about moving Colon to guard opposite Foster and keeping Starks and Gilbert at the tackle positions?

RuthlessBurgher
01-27-2012, 11:12 AM
Quick question, do you trust that colon is all healed up and can stay healthy?
Also what do you think about moving Colon to guard opposite Foster and keeping Starks and Gilbert at the tackle positions?

I'd like to re-sign Max and move Colon inside. I'd also love to trade up for DeCastro too.

Starks-DeCastro-Pouncey-Colon-Gilbert

We can win with that OL.

pick6
01-27-2012, 11:39 AM
Quick question, do you trust that colon is all healed up and can stay healthy?
Also what do you think about moving Colon to guard opposite Foster and keeping Starks and Gilbert at the tackle positions?

I'd like to re-sign Max and move Colon inside. I'd also love to trade up for DeCastro too.

Starks-DeCastro-Pouncey-Colon-Gilbert

We can win with that OL.

That would be a devastating OL. Our time of positon could average about 40 minutes. Repeated 3rd and inches all day. Or better yet 1st downs after 2 plays.

But what would it take to trade up for him? Where is he expected to be picked?

RuthlessBurgher
01-27-2012, 11:45 AM
Quick question, do you trust that colon is all healed up and can stay healthy?
Also what do you think about moving Colon to guard opposite Foster and keeping Starks and Gilbert at the tackle positions?

I'd like to re-sign Max and move Colon inside. I'd also love to trade up for DeCastro too.

Starks-DeCastro-Pouncey-Colon-Gilbert

We can win with that OL.

That would be a devastating OL. Our time of positon could average about 40 minutes. Repeated 3rd and inches all day. Or better yet 1st downs after 2 plays.

But what would it take to trade up for him? Where is he expected to be picked?

The top interior OL prospects in the draft have gone in the middle of the first round in the last few years (Mike Pouncey 15th in 2011, Mike Iupati 17th in 2010, Maurkice Pouncey 18th in 2010). I suggested trading our first and second round picks to the Jets (picking 16th overall) in exchange for their first and fourth round picks.

The numbers work out according to the draft trade value chart:

Steelers trade picks 1.24 (740) + 2.56 (340) = 1080 points total
to Jets for picks 1.16 (1000) + 4.108 (78) = 1078 points total

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
01-27-2012, 11:46 AM
I watched the DVD from the season leading to the SB against Seattle recently. One thing that impressed me was the power and athleticism of the Steelers lineman. You saw effective screen passes because you had guys that could get out front and move. You had Faneca leading runs all over the place.

I'd love a big guy up front, somebody that can move the Ngatas of the world, but I'd also really love to see the Steelers bring in some offensive lineman with athleticism.

Marvel Smith Round 2
Alan Faneca Round 1
Jeff Hartings Round 1
Kendall Simmons Round 1
Max Starks Round 3

Noticing a trend?

pick6
01-27-2012, 11:58 AM
I watched the DVD from the season leading to the SB against Seattle recently. One thing that impressed me was the power and athleticism of the Steelers lineman. You saw effective screen passes because you had guys that could get out front and move. You had Faneca leading runs all over the place.

I'd love a big guy up front, somebody that can move the Ngatas of the world, but I'd also really love to see the Steelers bring in some offensive lineman with athleticism.

Marvel Smith Round 2
Alan Faneca Round 1
Jeff Hartings Round 1
Kendall Simmons Round 1
Max Starks Round 3

Noticing a trend?


Absolutely

pick6
01-27-2012, 12:06 PM
Quick question, do you trust that colon is all healed up and can stay healthy?
Also what do you think about moving Colon to guard opposite Foster and keeping Starks and Gilbert at the tackle positions?

I'd like to re-sign Max and move Colon inside. I'd also love to trade up for DeCastro too.

Starks-DeCastro-Pouncey-Colon-Gilbert

We can win with that OL.

That would be a devastating OL. Our time of positon could average about 40 minutes. Repeated 3rd and inches all day. Or better yet 1st downs after 2 plays.

But what would it take to trade up for him? Where is he expected to be picked?

The top interior OL prospects in the draft have gone in the middle of the first round in the last few years (Mike Pouncey 15th in 2011, Mike Iupati 17th in 2010, Maurkice Pouncey 18th in 2010). I suggested trading our first and second round picks to the Jets (picking 16th overall) in exchange for their first and fourth round picks.

The numbers work out according to the draft trade value chart:

Steelers trade picks 1.24 (740) + 2.56 (340) = 1080 points total
to Jets for picks 1.16 (1000) + 4.108 (78) = 1078 points total


If this guy is who we think he is I would do it. It would have to be a last second kind of deal. Id have to be sure my target was still on the board before I completely pulled the trigger.

Now my next question is, what are the jets looking for in the draft. What are their perceived needs. I ask this because it would be great if whoever they are looking for is still conceivably available at 24. That would make me feel better about the possibilities. You know anything about the Jets in house situation.

RuthlessBurgher
01-27-2012, 01:23 PM
Quick question, do you trust that colon is all healed up and can stay healthy?
Also what do you think about moving Colon to guard opposite Foster and keeping Starks and Gilbert at the tackle positions?

I'd like to re-sign Max and move Colon inside. I'd also love to trade up for DeCastro too.

Starks-DeCastro-Pouncey-Colon-Gilbert

We can win with that OL.

That would be a devastating OL. Our time of positon could average about 40 minutes. Repeated 3rd and inches all day. Or better yet 1st downs after 2 plays.

But what would it take to trade up for him? Where is he expected to be picked?

The top interior OL prospects in the draft have gone in the middle of the first round in the last few years (Mike Pouncey 15th in 2011, Mike Iupati 17th in 2010, Maurkice Pouncey 18th in 2010). I suggested trading our first and second round picks to the Jets (picking 16th overall) in exchange for their first and fourth round picks.

The numbers work out according to the draft trade value chart:

Steelers trade picks 1.24 (740) + 2.56 (340) = 1080 points total
to Jets for picks 1.16 (1000) + 4.108 (78) = 1078 points total


If this guy is who we think he is I would do it. It would have to be a last second kind of deal. Id have to be sure my target was still on the board before I completely pulled the trigger.

Now my next question is, what are the jets looking for in the draft. What are their perceived needs. I ask this because it would be great if whoever they are looking for is still conceivably available at 24. That would make me feel better about the possibilities. You know anything about the Jets in house situation.

I think the Jets need a pash rusher. If Alabama's Courtney Upshaw is on the board, they'd likely pounce on him, but I expect him to go in the top 15. They could trade back to #24 and still get someone like Illinois' Whitney Mercilus or USC's Nick Perry instead, while also getting a 2nd round pick from us. Good deal for both sides.

I'm just hoping Dallas doesn't take DeCastro at #14. They need interior OL help, but also have needs in the secondary as well. They could take the best available CB at 14, then hope to land someone like Kelechi Osemele in round 2 (they always liked big bodied o-lineman like that). I'm hoping that Dre Kirkpatrick (a top 10 talent who was recently busted for marijuana possession) falls into their laps and they are unable to resist (drug problems don't seem to concern them too much...Nate Newton, Sam Hurd, Pac Man Jones, etc.).

pfelix73
01-27-2012, 07:09 PM
Realistically though, we have to move on past this Colon to RG stuff. He's RT now and that's where the Steelers will play him. Everyone close to the Steelers reports this, so it's gotta be put down in pen now that he's the RT.

Gilbert was drafted to be the next LT. This has also been reported, so this too has to be written down in pen.

Pouncey is our C, as he was just drafted there and barring any chronic problems with his injuries, he's set at C for a long time.

This obviously leaves our 2 OG positions. Which, by most counts is pretty much the same position as the OC. I like Legs at LG. I liked him at RG too. Now, there are a few FA's out there at G. How about Ben Grubbs? Depending on $$. We pluck him in there at LG and move Legs to RG.


That would leave us with:

Gilbert- only 2nd yr
Grubbs ($- ?) only been in league for like 4 yrs?
Pouncey only 3rd yr
Legs
Colon- old boy on line


Sign Starks on the cheap for backup duties...


:2c

Now we can concentrate on the Defensive side of the ball in the draft. We need more playmakers on D.

Hightower.....round 1

:tt1

Eddie Spaghetti
01-27-2012, 07:14 PM
don't you guys remember how legursky got abused at RG early last year?

he isn't strong enough to play that position.

NJ-STEELER
01-27-2012, 08:17 PM
if he's there, i personally know some jets fans who say they would take decastro. so i'm not sure they would trade back

i asked "really? another 1st rder on the OL"

they've said, "yeah, get back to ground and pound"


i'd do the same if stinkchez was my QB..lol


....that would give them 3 #1's and a 2nd rder along the OL

hawaiiansteel
01-27-2012, 08:56 PM
if he's there, i personally know some jets fans who say they would take decastro. so i'm not sure they would trade back

i asked "really? another 1st rder on the OL"

they've said, "yeah, get back to ground and pound"



I have a friend who is an avid Dallas Cowgirls fan and is a real draftnik. he told me that there is no way DeCastro falls past them at 1(14) as their LG Derrick Dockery is a free agent after missing most of 2011 with a knee injury and RG Montrae Holland sucks.

pick6
01-27-2012, 11:28 PM
if he's there, i personally know some jets fans who say they would take decastro. so i'm not sure they would trade back

i asked "really? another 1st rder on the OL"

they've said, "yeah, get back to ground and pound"



I have a friend who is an avid Dallas Cowgirls fan and is a real draftnik. he told me that there is no way DeCastro falls past them at 1(14) as their LG Derrick Dockery is a free agent after missing most of 2011 with a knee injury and RG Montrae Holland sucks.


Unfortunately, you seem to be on the money about this. They really want a top tier CB but the Kirkpatrick kid (I think thats his name) will be gone and there is no value for the next best corner at 14th pick. DeCastro seems to be a goner. I don't know what it would take to trade up to 13 but it seems like a very unlikely scenario.

Ok back to the drawing board. Im hoping that between now and the combine 1 or 2 interior lineman emerge outside of the known quantities we have on various draft boards, to have a 1st round grade. That might shuffle things up and give us an opportunity to grab one of these guys. I'm really set on getting an excellent player for this line. Legs simply can not be a starter on the line that I envision. We will continue to have major problems with the ravens and increasingly so with bengals both twice a year, if Legs is the starter. We are 1 excellent and 1 very good guard away from dominating teams including our division rivals.
How is this Glenn kid and will he be there at 24? Is he worth trading up for?

pfelix73
01-27-2012, 11:48 PM
Legs not strong enough? I'll listen to Craig Wolfley and his assessments over yours. Come on...

:tt1

pick6
01-28-2012, 05:41 PM
Legs not strong enough? I'll listen to Craig Wolfley and his assessments over yours. Come on...

:tt1

Oh boy not again. Its fine that you would listen to Wolfley over me Not sure if your post was in directed at my opinions or not, if not then ignore.

If so then guys are going to really have to try to start benefiting from the written word. How can you read any of my post and think that I have written anything in regard to Legs not being strong enough. I haven't said that at all. I really don't care how strong he is, he simply isn't good enough to start for a Steeler oline that we hope to be a force in the future, imo. Not only that but I think we can do much better (this is actually my real point). Legs in adequate at best. Do you really think we should settle for Legs being a starter because Wolfley said he was stong "enough". I would love to hear the context in which Wolfley made this statement.

So basically we should go to the Swiss alps and recruit Magnum von Mangus von Magnusson von Mega'f'ing Supermagnum winner of Mr. Strongest Guy in the Galaxy award the last 5 years and running, and plug this guy in on the oline. Hell, he's strong enough. Heck, we might be able to pay him in 5 gallon barrels of creatine. That's your logic right. I mean have you seen one of these competitions. These guys can pull a 767 jumbo jet by a titanium piece of floss tied around their nads. Sorry for the imagery but you get my point. These guys are stronger than most people in the NFL. So what, Ngata would own all of them.

Let me put it this way. Oline like any position is made up of several different physical skill sets and attributes, along with knowledge and technique. You, arbitrarily emphasizing one of his attributes ie. Legs' strength, would be like me talking up some guy who is tall enough (6'5'') great wing span, great student of the game, understands the plays perfectly, super fast feet and lateral movement, with the best technique in the league and I want this guy to start, right. You see where I going with this. Then you come along and ask me what's his bench. I tell you he can do 225 lb. about 5 to 7 times max. You start laughing hysterically. You ask me how much does he weigh. I say 255 lbs but Im working on it. You walk away shaking your head.

Ok Wolf said he has strength. But he is lacking in other areas to the point that "I" see him get handled too much. He's getting better and he's a keeper, but Leg's is going to help us dominate the line of scrimmage, come on, we can do better.

NJ-STEELER
01-28-2012, 05:46 PM
athletic and smart

screw the Kemno types

RuthlessBurgher
01-28-2012, 05:48 PM
athletic and smart

That is why DeCastro is worth trading up for. Extremely athletic (while still keeping a nasty edge to him as well) and also quite intelligent (Stanford kid and all).

flippy
01-28-2012, 05:48 PM
Bring back Kolb, Faneca, Dirt, and Webby in their prime and let em duke it out with the current roster.

pick6
01-28-2012, 06:02 PM
Cant judge a guy off of a few plays, but Glenn looks like he's walking around out there. Is this true.

Captain Lemming
01-28-2012, 06:46 PM
Legs not strong enough? I'll listen to Craig Wolfley and his assessments over yours. Come on...

:tt1

Oh boy not again. Its fine that you would listen to Wolfley over me Not sure if your post was in directed at my opinions or not, if not then ignore.
.
Eddie Spaghetti said Legs is not strong enough, I think the response was to that comment.

Eddie Spaghetti
01-28-2012, 07:00 PM
and I believe that to be true, no matter what wolfley says.

legurskys mobility helps him at LG, but he cannot play RG.

he got hammered there when he started last season at that spot.

NJ-STEELER
01-28-2012, 07:26 PM
legs is OK, nothing great

he got manhandled by ngata. if OLs leave ngata one on one, he'll eat up most of those guys

pick6
01-28-2012, 09:48 PM
Legs not strong enough? I'll listen to Craig Wolfley and his assessments over yours. Come on...

:tt1

Oh boy not again. Its fine that you would listen to Wolfley over me Not sure if your post was in directed at my opinions or not, if not then ignore.
.
Eddie Spaghetti said Legs is not strong enough, I think the response was to that comment.[/quote

Thanks. My bad pfelix. Im an idiot. But the part about Supermangum was kinda funny. Cmon cut me some slack.

Shoe
01-28-2012, 11:19 PM
We need LEADERS. We need guys who don't move like molasses, which is what we've had for years. When I say that, I don't even necessarily mean physically, although we have our share of those. I mean mentally!

Our problems are the slow-thinking, slow-reacting, slow-motivation (i.e. preparation), etc. Kemoeatu is the poster child for this, but we have had plenty of these types.

We need LEADERS.

(On a different note, it is sad, that in the evolution of NFL football... that we have lost the variety in terms of offensive line types. In the days I fell in love with the game, we had lines (like the Hogs) who were big mauling types. But there also were plenty of the smaller, pulling type lines, who utilized small athletic linemen. The 80's 9ers, our teams of the 70's-80's... It's sad that the game has evolved/devolved into just big lards. I guess that's kinda why I have a soft spot for a guy like Legursky.

focosteeler
01-29-2012, 12:02 AM
athletic and smart

screw the Kemno types

I agree, i want guys that can move, and dont make mental mistakes. not massive guys who just kind of get in the way. I like Legursky but there is definite room for improvement with him as well as 2 other positions on the line