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Scarletfire1970
01-27-2012, 09:16 AM
All this talk about the offense, what are we going to do to improve the defense? We have no pass rush, our secondary is exposed. The defense is just as big of a problem as the offense. Don't give me the #1 defense stat. If they play like they did last year in 2012, trust me, they will be no where near #1. They were a product of a great schedule playing teams that had mostly mediocre at best QBs. Flacco went 90+ yards to win the division deciding game. And we won't get into what Tebow did to them in our one and done playoff game. The only impressive game they had was against the Pats.

BradshawsHairdresser
01-27-2012, 09:35 AM
Defense, overall, is in greater need of an infusion of youthful talent. I would not be surprised if 5 of our 7 draft picks are spent on defensive players.

I still hope one of our top two picks is spent on OL.

feltdizz
01-27-2012, 09:44 AM
Nothing wrong with the D IMO. Ike had a horrible game and the DL was injured early on but I they also forced 2 fumbles and recovered 1.

I could see if the D was consistently bad but it was the perfect storm of injuries and horrible execution.

phillyesq
01-27-2012, 10:00 AM
I think the Steelers need help on both lines, but after that, I agree that the defense needs a bigger infusion of youth. The offense could use a big WR, a dynamic TE, or maybe another RB, but I don't see any of those as pressing needs.

Both lines would easily benefit from two players, and the defense could really use a young ILB, more depth at OLB, and probably another safety.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-27-2012, 10:03 AM
I think the DL is a concern heading into next year just due to youth taking over for veteran players. ILB is also a concern. Other than that, I think we are ok at the other positions and will be good due to the following reasons....

-Both OLB had injury issues last season so as long as the injury bug goes away we're good.

-In the secondary our young players really stepped it up and were heavily involved, unfortunitely they all seemed to get injured down the stretch so the experience will hopefully have them ready to contribute even more! I would re-sign Willie Gay though. Dude came on last season under Carnell's watch.

-As I said, up front it depends on what is going to go on with the cap situation and who can play where. Can Ziggy really play NT to the level we need to run the 3-4? Can Casey play at that level anymore? I don't really trust McLendon to play that position full time. Maybe this is one position we should be looking at for the 1st or 2nd round. DE may also be a consideration if Ziggy can move to NT or if they feel we need more depth here. Maybe Aaron Smith comes back as a backup for a season or so and the limited playing time suits him well so he remains fresh and able to step in for a game here or there or to rotate in here or there. No way Smith should start if he comes back though.

-Overall, we gotta trust the Steelers to keep the D strong. They have done a good job on this side of the ball.

-SS/FS with Troy & Clark concerns me.......Not sure if any of the young guys are S material and I think Mundy is a backup. This could also be a target high in the draft.

Slapstick
01-27-2012, 10:06 AM
I think that Ziggy could play like a more powerful Chris Hoke at the Nose...

pittpete
01-27-2012, 07:39 PM
Dude, you are a riot.
14.2 points a game our defense gave up
20.3 points a game our offense scored
we ranked #1 in points allowed
we ranked #21 in points scored
Yardage allowed is a BS stat so I didnt mention that.
How do you come to the conclusion that our defense wont be good next year.
Keep in mind that it took an injury to realize A.Smith didnt have it any more
Keep in mind that Harrison might be stronger and not miss any games next year
Keep in mind that Woodley's hamstring will be fully healed
Keep in mind that Casey Hampton wont be able to take every other play off next year because he will be gone.
Keep in mind that Farrior will probably be replaced by someone 10 years younger and faster next year.
Id like to hear your logic.
Please do explain :?:

NJ-STEELER
01-27-2012, 07:58 PM
we've drafted "that youth' the last couple of years

worldis, sly,carter, cam, hood, allen, brown, (timmons and woodley are hitting their prime)

i'll go further with guys who need to be given a chance in mcclendon, bryant and woods

can we give these guys a try before we draft more defensive players that take 2-3years to make an impact in this defense. and maybe (just maybe) try to help the offense that ranks in the bottom 3rd of the league


would our team really suffer if the Defense drops to a ranking of 5th-6th in the league while the offense improves to one in the top third in the league

BradshawsHairdresser
01-27-2012, 08:54 PM
Farrior, Foote, Harrison, Polamalu, Clark, Hampton, Kiesel, Taylor--
All of those players, except for one, are currently STARTERS (and the one, Foote, is a much-used sub). ALL of those players are older than 30.

Will the younger players step up and perform? I hope so, but I think the jury is still out on many of them.

--At LB, Worilds, Carter and Sylvester might be OK, but I don't think we know that yet. Seems to me that Sly would have gotten more play by now if the team was really sold on him at ILB. Keep in mind that in our D, to be successful, the LBs need to be not just adequate, they need to be PLAYMAKERS.

--At DB, Cortez Allen, Curtis Brown, and Keenan Lewis all seemed to improve this season, but are they ready to step in to a bigger role? William Gay is likely gone in FA. For all his well-documented struggles, I think he will be missed. Mundy looked OK vs. the Donks, but will he be fulltime starter material at S should something happen to Clark or Polamalu?

--DL: at NT, Hampton may very well not be ready to play at the start of the season--with Hoke retiring, we need more than just McLendon to man that position. If you slide Hood over, as some have suggested, then you only have two proven DE's, Kiesel and Heyward. So I see need along the DL.

Yes, we need OL help on offense (as I have noted more than a few times). But otherwise, I don't think the offense needs a lot of different players. With a couple of upgrades on the OL, and an upgrade at Offensive Coordinator, I think you will see tremendous improvement in the Steelers' O.

aggiebones
01-27-2012, 09:49 PM
We are drafting a NT or G in the first round, most likely.

We had a good defensive season. The final loss was partly due to Keisel and Hampton missing the second half due to abnormal injuries. Clark missing the whole game due to Sickle cell. And Deebo having his worst game in 3 seasons. Yea he's over 30, but didn't use alot of tread early in his career.

We need to replace Farrior, NT and G ASAP.
The rest are solid. We can't have all-pros at every position in this era.

BradshawsHairdresser
01-28-2012, 12:39 AM
We are drafting a NT or G in the first round, most likely.

We had a good defensive season. The final loss was partly due to Keisel and Hampton missing the second half due to abnormal injuries. Clark missing the whole game due to Sickle cell. And Deebo having his worst game in 3 seasons. Yea he's over 30, but didn't use alot of tread early in his career.

We need to replace Farrior, NT and G ASAP.
The rest are solid. We can't have all-pros at every position in this era.

Who said anything about having all-pros at every position? In general, with our D, I'm more concerned with having someone who can step in and play "above the line" in case a starter gets hurt, and who will eventually be able to take over as a starter (although, as I said, when it comes to LB's, we need to have playmakers). The more +30-year-olds you have, the more you have to start thinking about this... even if they don't have a lot of "tread" on them, as they age, their bodies become more prone to break down and it takes longer for them to recover from injuries.

Dresden
01-28-2012, 01:47 AM
Get our front seven back to form. Get back to being able to punish opponents with a consistent between the tackles ground game. Add some ballhawk turnover intensity in the secondary and the ability to score three touchdowns passing without struggling mightily to do so,....and we're good to go.

rockonsteel
01-28-2012, 09:24 AM
Get our front seven back to form. Get back to being able to punish opponents with a consistent between the tackles ground game. Add some ballhawk turnover intensity in the secondary and the ability to score three touchdowns passing without struggling mightily to do so,....and we're good to go.

:Agree

Well said...

Rockon

papillon
01-28-2012, 10:41 AM
IMO, even though the Steeler defense was ranked number one this past year I never had the feeling that they were that dominant to the point that I felt comfortable with a lead and the opponent with the ball late in the game.

The offense was what it was, very, very inconsistent for all the reasons that have been mentioned ad infinitum.

Both sides of the ball need to be addressed this year and, hopefully, with a player or two that can have an immediate impact or at least come in and play at a high enough level that the Steelers can allow him to play and learn without detriment to the team.

Offense and defense need players, this would be a great year to hit a homerun.

Pappy

NJ-STEELER
01-28-2012, 10:42 AM
when has the front seven not been the strength of this team?
for the last 5 years (maybe more) they've been our best unit


and in that time, we've drafted back ups to the older starters with two #1 picks and a mid 2nd rounder

Oviedo
01-28-2012, 11:11 AM
All this talk about the offense, what are we going to do to improve the defense? We have no pass rush, our secondary is exposed. The defense is just as big of a problem as the offense. Don't give me the #1 defense stat. If they play like they did last year in 2012, trust me, they will be no where near #1. They were a product of a great schedule playing teams that had mostly mediocre at best QBs. Flacco went 90+ yards to win the division deciding game. And we won't get into what Tebow did to them in our one and done playoff game. The only impressive game they had was against the Pats.

1. Thou shalt not criticize the defense.
2. Thou shalt take joy in stats and rankings.
3. Thou shalt take solace in the past.
4. Thou shalt ignore trends and make excuses because all things are the fault of the offense and no fullback
5. Thou shalt be a sinner to consider change
6. Thou shalt be condemned to eternal damnation and scorn to discuss the defense except for taking joy in rankings and trusting in the past
7. Thou shalt ignore the time it takes for players to contribute due to excessive complexity while others thrive
8. Thou shall ignore the amount of money invested on the defensive side of the football and thous shalt never expect more for that investment
9. Thou shall prepare to criticize the new offensive coordinator for all failure.
10. Above all thou shalt never be filled with doubt and just believe in "The Legend"

BradshawsHairdresser
01-28-2012, 11:14 AM
when has the front seven not been the strength of this team?
for the last 5 years (maybe more) they've been our best unit


and in that time, we've drafted back ups to the older starters with two #1 picks and a mid 2nd rounder

And that's a good start, but we need to keep on keeping on in order to fill the spots left by all the older players who will be heading out the door in the next year or two (Smith, Hoke, Hampton, Farrior, Foote, etc.).

pittpete
01-28-2012, 11:35 AM
Ovideo, you forgot a few
Though shalt settle for FGs when in the redzone
Though shalt turn the ball over as many times as possible throughout the year
Though shalt never put away teams in the 4th quarter to keep the defense on its toes
Though shalt realize that DL is a hall of fame coordinator and means more to this team then all the coaches combined in the last 5 years
:stirpot

NJ-STEELER
01-28-2012, 11:43 AM
when has the front seven not been the strength of this team?
for the last 5 years (maybe more) they've been our best unit


and in that time, we've drafted back ups to the older starters with two #1 picks and a mid 2nd rounder

And that's a good start, but we need to keep on keeping on in order to fill the spots left by all the older players who will be heading out the door in the next year or two (Smith, Hoke, Hampton, Farrior, Foote, etc.).

the last 2 years (except for maybe hampton last year) were average players. they were all past their prime in that time span and the defense was still among the best in the NFL.

it shouldnt be that hard the replace the production they had in those years

pittpete
01-28-2012, 12:04 PM
1995-3rd in yds/g -9th in pts allowed
1996-2nd in yds/g -4th in pts allowed
2004-1st in yds/g -1st in pts allowed
2005-4th in yds/g -3rd in pts allowed
2006-9th in yds/g -11th in pts allowed
2007-1st in yds/g -2nd in pts allowed
2008-1st in yds/g -1st in pts allowed
2009-5th in yds/g -12th in pts allowed
2010-2nd in yds/g -1st in pts allowed
2011-1st in yds/g -1st in pts allowed
4x the #1 ranked defense in yds per game
4x the #1 ranked defense in points allowed
I dare anyone to go look up offensive statistics
Defense has never been this teams problem
These are Lebeaus rankings as DC for the Steelers
Defense has kept this team competitive and near the top over the last 2 decades.
How people can constantly blame the defense and Lebeau is a joke.
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQcb27bGLtTu_1i2MJtRj09XyLOTxBG6 fqZiE0ak8dJ2mrUtdAbP_5YXd8C

grotonsteel
01-28-2012, 12:22 PM
1995-3rd in yds/g -9th in pts allowed
1996-2nd in yds/g -4th in pts allowed
2004-1st in yds/g -1st in pts allowed
2005-4th in yds/g -3rd in pts allowed
2006-9th in yds/g -11th in pts allowed
2007-1st in yds/g -2nd in pts allowed
2008-1st in yds/g -1st in pts allowed
2009-5th in yds/g -12th in pts allowed
2010-2nd in yds/g -1st in pts allowed
2011-1st in yds/g -1st in pts allowed
4x the #1 ranked defense in yds per game
4x the #1 ranked defense in points allowed
I dare anyone to go look up offensive statistics
Defense has never been this teams problem
These are Lebeaus rankings as DC for the Steelers
Defense has kept this team competitive and near the top over the last 2 decades.
How people can constantly blame the defense and Lebeau is a joke.
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQcb27bGLtTu_1i2MJtRj09XyLOTxBG6 fqZiE0ak8dJ2mrUtdAbP_5YXd8C

You say Defense is not a problem even after Denver game? Steelers Defense got tebowed. 4thQ Defense is still a problem.Steelers Defense rarely made any splash plays or TO last season.

Steelers have way too much money invested on Defense.Time for ARII to spend money on his offense for a change.

pittpete
01-28-2012, 12:39 PM
You are talking about 1 game
1 playoff game and years of defense goes out the window.
Cmon please
Tebowed,wtf is Tebowed?
Our offense had the ball at midfield with plenty of time to kick the winning FG and what happened?
Ike was solid all year and had a brainfart in Denver.
Everyone said the way to beat Denver was play man.
We did and we got burnt by bad play from our corners.
If we would have sat back and played like we did against Alex Smith and the Niners the defense would've been ridiculed also.
We had four starters missing from the lineup at different parts of the game,Harrison was getting double teamed and chipped on every play and besides Troy nobody on defense showed any kind of spark.
1 playoff game doesnt negate a decades worth of solid defense does it?

Chadman
01-28-2012, 12:56 PM
Before we get too stuck in on who should we draft- Offense or Defense, consider this...


The 2nd oldest under contract Offensive player is....?

Anyone?

Ben. At 30.

The Offense is a young unit, filled with up & coming players in all positions- outside of QB.

The average starting Defense age is 32. This group will get old & need replacing as the young Offensive players start hitting their peak.

It's Defense that needs investment in the future.

The Offense probably needs a FA OG more than a rookie.

grotonsteel
01-28-2012, 01:08 PM
You are talking about 1 game
1 playoff game and years of defense goes out the window.
Cmon please
Tebowed,wtf is Tebowed?
Our offense had the ball at midfield with plenty of time to kick the winning FG and what happened?
Ike was solid all year and had a brainfart in Denver.
Everyone said the way to beat Denver was play man.
We did and we got burnt by bad play from our corners.
If we would have sat back and played like we did against Alex Smith and the Niners the defense would've been ridiculed also.
We had four starters missing from the lineup at different parts of the game,Harrison was getting double teamed and chipped on every play and besides Troy nobody on defense showed any kind of spark.
1 playoff game doesnt negate a decades worth of solid defense does it?


Steelers Defense is great no doubt but the money Steelers are spending on their D it better be good. I don't trust Steelers D to make a stop at crucial juncture.
I have seen way too many long drives given by this Steelers D.


Steelers offense scored 23 points and Defense failed to protect that. I mean Tim Tebow schooled Steelers Defense.

Why there is no mention of injuries on Offense? Steelers O-line is always playing musical chairs but we expect Steelers offense to score 35 points/game.

I think its time for Steelers FO to change their mindset. Cut the veterans on D and splash money on Offense and O-line this off season.

pittpete
01-28-2012, 01:13 PM
Cut the veterans on D and splash money on Offense and O-line this off season.

I don't disagree with this statement and believe it will happen
Wallace will be signed and O-line will be addressed through the draft.
Hopefully our new O-coordinator can put the talent we have in the right positions to succeed.

grotonsteel
01-28-2012, 01:40 PM
Cut the veterans on D and splash money on Offense and O-line this off season.

I don't disagree with this statement and believe it will happen
Wallace will be signed and O-line will be addressed through the draft.
Hopefully our new O-coordinator can put the talent we have in the right positions to succeed.


I want a dominating Defense and efficient offense (not scoring tons of points in garbage time and padding stats).

About time Steelers cut few veteran players on both side of the ball and get young. Draft big uglies in this draft.

grotonsteel
01-28-2012, 01:52 PM
Before we get too stuck in on who should we draft- Offense or Defense, consider this...


The 2nd oldest under contract Offensive player is....?

Anyone?

Ben. At 30.

The Offense is a young unit, filled with up & coming players in all positions- outside of QB.

The average starting Defense age is 32. This group will get old & need replacing as the young Offensive players start hitting their peak.

It's Defense that needs investment in the future.

The Offense probably needs a FA OG more than a rookie.

Steelers already have tons of money invested on Defense. I agree Offense has young players and will hit their peak in coming years but what about O-line? Steelers have 2 starters right now. Gilbert and pouncey (often injured).

Colon has not played in 2 years. Starks will have his ACL surgery. Not sure when he will be back and in game shape.

Steelers are over 25 million in salary cap. Not sure how they can sign a decent FA OG.

ARII needs to start investing on O-line and it should be his highest priority this off season.

I am for drafting Defense but not in early rounds. A defensive player takes 2-3 years to start seeing the field. Draft those players in mid-late rounds.

Also i am not a big fan of drafting a D-lineman in Rd 1 if he is going to occupy two blockers. Now if Poe is another Ngata i will jump over him in the draft else i would pass.

BradshawsHairdresser
01-28-2012, 03:02 PM
Before we get too stuck in on who should we draft- Offense or Defense, consider this...


The 2nd oldest under contract Offensive player is....?

Anyone?

Ben. At 30.

The Offense is a young unit, filled with up & coming players in all positions- outside of QB.

The average starting Defense age is 32. This group will get old & need replacing as the young Offensive players start hitting their peak.

It's Defense that needs investment in the future.
:Agree


The Offense probably needs a FA OG more than a rookie.
A top-flight FA guard would be great, but at $20 million over the cap, I don't expect us to make much of a play in that arena. We're probably going to have to do the best we can in the draft.

NJ-STEELER
01-28-2012, 04:31 PM
You are talking about 1 game
1 playoff game and years of defense goes out the window.
Cmon please
Tebowed,wtf is Tebowed?
Our offense had the ball at midfield with plenty of time to kick the winning FG and what happened?
Ike was solid all year and had a brainfart in Denver.
Everyone said the way to beat Denver was play man.
We did and we got burnt by bad play from our corners.
If we would have sat back and played like we did against Alex Smith and the Niners the defense would've been ridiculed also.
We had four starters missing from the lineup at different parts of the game,Harrison was getting double teamed and chipped on every play and besides Troy nobody on defense showed any kind of spark.
1 playoff game doesnt negate a decades worth of solid defense does it?

as he's shown. tebow is not accurate at all in his short game.
if anything, throwing the ball long was his only chance.

its a lot easier to get lucky on a long ball here and there then it is to actually drive down the field with the way he throws the ball

NJ-STEELER
01-28-2012, 04:34 PM
we've already inverted the young player on the defense. they're already on the roster

worldis, carter, hood, heyward (timmons and woodley hitting their prime years)

allen, brown... mcclendon\

thats almost a whole defensive unit

Chadman
01-28-2012, 08:26 PM
we've already inverted the young player on the defense. they're already on the roster

worldis, carter, hood, heyward (timmons and woodley hitting their prime years)

allen, brown... mcclendon\

thats almost a whole defensive unit

Conversely, on Offense...Brown, Sanders, Saunders, Pouncey, Gilbert, Mendenhall, Redman, Legursky, Foster, Wallace, Chris Scott, David Johnson...etc, etc...8 of those young Offensive players just mentioned are already starters...

It's not like the Steelers have neglected Offense these last 3-4 years.

And for every Legursky/Foster/Chris Scott/Johnson/Saunders/Sanders "Have not proven they can start effectively" argument you put forward, Chadman will give you a McLendon/Worilds/Carter/Sylvester/Allen/Brown/Heyward etc "Have not proven they can start" argument in return.

Fact is- SIGNIFICANT starters on Defense are at the end of the rope, with little back-up in place at NT & ILB- 2 of the most important positions on a 3-4 Defense. Do you feel comfortable with McLendon as the starting NT & Sylvester the starting ILB?

On Offense- all the 'areas requiring upgrades' are filled by players with their talent levels on the rise (OG- no player over 27). Could they do with an upgrade? Yes, Chadman won't say no to that. But an actual Vet may prove a better investment to come in & start now, putting Legs/Foster & perhaps a rookie in competition for 1 spot. Hold on to them all, let them develop.

NJ-STEELER
01-28-2012, 09:45 PM
how many years in a row have we had a top defense?

the players that make it happen will still be here. harrison, woodley, troy, keisel, ike, timmons, clark

i'll repeat everyone that we deem 'needs to be replaced' (farrior, hoke,smith) was an average player the last year or 2 (with maybe hampton playing above average 2 years ago)
heyward and hood were premium draft picks to replace some of the DL. same with worldis and the LBs. they're already on board
then they have carter and sly who they've groomed to fill in at LB.
plus 2 Cbs last year and mundy ready for more playing time


even with those average performances by the older guys, they still ranked 1st and 3rd in the entire league the last 2 years. how much of a drop off could we have if we're just replacing average performers? we are not replacing ike,woodley, harrison or troy next year. yes, having to replace one of them would hurt the defense

lastly, is it really that hard to see the OL is in shambles or that more is needed in the weapon department to get more red zone production. i'd rather take a big WR that could be a true #1 in the 1st round then take an NT or ILB. we won 2 super bowls with larry freakin foote starting at ILB. you dont need pro bowlers or 1st rounder all across the LB unit to be successful

improve the damn areas that we've struggled at for years