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steeler_fan_in_t.o.
01-23-2012, 09:43 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... the-league (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8263fcc3/article/niners-harbaugh-nofumble-call-analogous-with-the-tuck-rule?module=HP11_around-the-league)

The problem here, you whiny little douche, is that the play was blown dead. So the result is automatic - dead ball, ball remains with the offense. Absolutely no question that there is zero controversy. Maybe you thought it was a quick whistle, but a whistle nonetheless.

The tuck rule had the ball recovered by the Raiders and that was the call on the field. Then after huddling, the officials came up with an explanation that nobody had ever heard of to give the ball back to the Pats.


Niners' Harbaugh: No-fumble call 'analogous with the tuck rule'

Earnest Byner made championship game history with The Fumble. Twenty-four years later, the 49ers are lamenting The Fumble ... That Wasn't.

It happened with 2:29 remaining in regulation of Sunday's NFC Championship Game. With the score tied at 17, Giants running back Ahmad Bradshaw caught a pass from Eli Manning and had the ball stripped before he went to the ground at New York's 21-yard line. The 49ers recovered the ball, putting them in prime position for the winning score.

But the play was blown dead, with game officials ruling Bradshaw's forward progress had been stopped before the ball popped loose.

The Giants retained possession and punted the ball out of their territory. The 49ers never sniffed the red zone again in a heartbreaking 20-17 overtime loss.

"In my opinion, that was a fumble," 49ers coach Jim Harbaugh said during his news conference Monday. "I'm sure the league will defend it and the officials will defend it. But to me, that play was still going on. There was still struggling by Bradshaw. ... I felt like it was analogous with the tuck rule."

Of course, the tuck rule hurt the Bay Area's other team, the Raiders, 10 years ago when officials said Tom Brady's arm was in a passing motion late in a divisional playoff game that New England went on to win.

In this case, because the whistle was blown, Bradshaw's fumble occurred in a dead-ball period. That meant the play wasn't reviewable.

A league spokesman confirmed to NFL.com and NFL Network that game officials made the correct call, citing this portion of the league's rule book:

"Rule 7, Section 2 (b) of the NFL Rule Book (page 35) covers "dead balls." The rule states: "An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended: (b) when a runner is held or otherwise restrained so that his forward progress ends." That was the immediate ruling yesterday, which is not subject to a replay review."

The question remains if the play truly was over when the ball came out. Giants fans always will say yes. 49ers fans always will say no. Where do you stand?

steelfin
01-23-2012, 09:50 PM
IMO...the refs blew the play dead to quickly...Looked like a fumble to me....but once the whistle blows...the play is over.

Both the Giants and Pats are lucky to have won their games.

SF

hawaiiansteel
01-23-2012, 09:56 PM
one of the Harbaugh brothers whining and complaining? no way, I don't believe it. :D

brothervad
01-23-2012, 10:04 PM
NFL nowadays makes the fumble a multi-variate calculus problem.

I know when I was a young kid the NFL had a very simple rule for a fumble.

You hold onto the ball throughout the whole play. Didn't matter if you had a knee, elbow, half a toe.

You had to hold onto the ball throughout the whole play, otherwise it was a fumble.

Now I am not suggesting that the NFL goes back to that, but how much easier would that be than going through 900 angles, blowing up a play to see it at the sub-atomic level.

I mean holy crap this stuff is way over thought out.

brothervad

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
01-23-2012, 10:16 PM
IMO...the refs blew the play dead to quickly...Looked like a fumble to me....but once the whistle blows...the play is over.

Both the Giants and Pats are lucky to have won their games.

SF

Be that as it may....a whistle is a whistle and play is dead.

steelfin
01-23-2012, 10:22 PM
IMO...the refs blew the play dead to quickly...Looked like a fumble to me....but once the whistle blows...the play is over.

Both the Giants and Pats are lucky to have won their games.

SF

Be that as it may....a whistle is a whistle and play is dead.

Not arguing that fact... :) On to the SB....

fezziwig
01-23-2012, 11:14 PM
I remember when they had taken that interception away from Troy during the Steelers / Colts playoff game. You didn't see Cowher on the sideline hoping/wishing or waiting, Cowher was talking to his defense getting them prepared if the call didn't go the Steelers way.

That is how you coach and prepare for the moment. The cry baby stuff the Hairballs do comes from, spoiled kids now adults always wanting their way.

Steel Life
01-23-2012, 11:42 PM
While acknowledging that Lil' Harbaugh does whine too much, he did get jobbed there - if you watch the replay the whistle blows after the ball came out. The official there was may have been thinking that the forward progress was probably stopped but there was definitely a delayed reaction. That said, it's shame that a good defensive play like that doesn't get rewarded but it just wasn't the 49ers day.

fezziwig
01-23-2012, 11:57 PM
it's all about screaming wolf

Starlifter
01-24-2012, 12:23 AM
when i saw the play - i thought right away forward progress had been stopped.

then i flashbacked to when mendy got physically held off the ground and stripped of the ball. sometimes they call it, sometimes they don't.

the proper team won that game. say what you want about coughlin - he may be a jerk, but i've never seen him pass the buck on a loss or look for excuses beyond his own teams performance.

both harbaughs are nothing BUT blaming others for their propensity to come up short.

Dresden
01-24-2012, 12:44 AM
I am man enough to admit that whether i like them or not,...the Harbaugh's are exceptional Coaches.

They are not merely motivational speakers,....they have a great understanding and or grasp of the game.

And most of all,...they do not place their own ego's before the wellbeing of the teams that they command.

hawaiiansteel
01-24-2012, 02:00 AM
Jim Harbaugh compares Bradshaw non-fumble to tuck rule

Posted by Mike Florio on January 23, 2012

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/harbaugh3.jpg?w=250

Sixteen years ago, 49ers coach Jim Harbaugh saw a berth in the Super Bowl evaporate after teammate Quentin Coryatt failed to secure a pass from Steelers quarterback Neil O’Donnell that hit Coryatt right in the stomach. On Sunday, another near miss on a turnover helped keep the former Colts quarterback’s team from getting back to Indianapolis.

Giants running back Ahmad Bradshaw caught a short pass late in regulation, and he immediately was pushed backward. Before he hit the ground, the ball came out. And the 49ers recovered.

But the officials ruled that Bradshaw’s forward progress had been stopped. Thus, no fumble. And no turnover.

On Monday, Harbaugh expressed his displeasure with the ruling.

“In my opinion, that was a fumble,” Harbaugh said Monday, via NFL.com. “I’m sure the league will defend it and the officials will defend it. But to me, that play was still going on. There was still struggling by Bradshaw. . . . I felt like it was analogous with the tuck rule.”

As much as we like and respect the man who without question was the NFL’s coach of the year, Harbaugh has this one wrong. The rule regarding forward progress is used routinely, the tuck rule sparingly.

In this specific case, Bradshaw’s forward progress was stopped. He was being yanked backward, not falling forward. So it was a good call. (As was the use of the tuck rule a decade ago.)

The only remaining question is whether Harbaugh’s comments crossed the vague and at times shifting line between what will and won’t get a head coach fined for criticizing the officials.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... tuck-rule/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/23/jim-harbaugh-compares-bradshaw-non-fumble-to-tuck-rule/)

Ghost
01-24-2012, 09:34 AM
Was Pereira in the booth commenting on that play or was it just Aikman and idiot Buck? I thought at the time someone said that they believed the right call had been made as his forward progress had been stopped and the ball only came out after he was being pushed back.

Steelgal
01-24-2012, 10:42 AM
I remember when they had taken that interception away from Troy during the Steelers / Colts playoff game. You didn't see Cowher on the sideline hoping/wishing or waiting, Cowher was talking to his defense getting them prepared if the call didn't go the Steelers way.

That is how you coach and prepare for the moment. The cry baby stuff the Hairballs do comes from, spoiled kids now adults always wanting their way.

Exactly, I have the DVD SB set for that year and Cowher goes up to either the defense or Troy personally and says something about getting ready to play again if it gets overturned. Warning that it could happen and get prepared.

Bad calls happen, both ways. Great teams overcome them and don't use excuses as to why they got beat.

Ghost
01-24-2012, 11:03 AM
I remember when they had taken that interception away from Troy during the Steelers / Colts playoff game. You didn't see Cowher on the sideline hoping/wishing or waiting, Cowher was talking to his defense getting them prepared if the call didn't go the Steelers way.

That is how you coach and prepare for the moment. The cry baby stuff the Hairballs do comes from, spoiled kids now adults always wanting their way.

You can add that fat baby walrus Holmgren to the list of coaches who get so busy crying they forget to coach. He was so distracted blubbering in the SB that he mismanged the clock.

drprwnap
01-24-2012, 11:52 AM
I remember when they had taken that interception away from Troy during the Steelers / Colts playoff game. You didn't see Cowher on the sideline hoping/wishing or waiting, Cowher was talking to his defense getting them prepared if the call didn't go the Steelers way.

That is how you coach and prepare for the moment. The cry baby stuff the Hairballs do comes from, spoiled kids now adults always wanting their way.

That entire playoff run was Cowher's best coaching. From when he erased the board after the Cincy loss to winning the Super Bowl, it was one of the best coaching jobs of all time, IMHO.

I remember Tomln's reaction when the Cards scored to take the lead in SB 43. "If there gonna score, that's the way you want it-quick" Even tho there was no penalty on the play, MT stayed calm and kept his players in the game. If that was one of the Hairball brothers, they would be whining to the ref about some penalty that should have been called. That's probably the main reason that I HATE both of those guys. They whine and cry about EVERYTHING. Man, I'm so glad neither one of them made it to the SB. :Beer :Beer

RuthlessBurgher
01-24-2012, 02:23 PM
I am man enough to admit that whether i like them or not,...the Harbaugh's are exceptional Coaches.

They are not merely motivational speakers,....they have a great understanding and or grasp of the game.

And most of all,...they do not place their own ego's before the wellbeing of the teams that they command.

It's okay...you can say what you really wanted to say here...I encourage it.

That last "attempting to avoid drafting any truly productive stud collegiate players so as vindicate himself as a guy who could not play in the pro's by having marginal talent succeed under his watch" post was high comedy. I look forward to your next effort. :lol:

fezziwig
01-24-2012, 08:47 PM
I remember when they had taken that interception away from Troy during the Steelers / Colts playoff game. You didn't see Cowher on the sideline hoping/wishing or waiting, Cowher was talking to his defense getting them prepared if the call didn't go the Steelers way.

That is how you coach and prepare for the moment. The cry baby stuff the Hairballs do comes from, spoiled kids now adults always wanting their way.

You can add that fat baby walrus Holmgren to the list of coaches who get so busy crying they forget to coach. He was so distracted blubbering in the SB that he mismanged the clock.


LMAO.........! " so busy crying they forget to coach " dude, that killed me lol !

Dresden
01-25-2012, 12:47 AM
I am man enough to admit that whether i like them or not,...the Harbaugh's are exceptional Coaches.

They are not merely motivational speakers,....they have a great understanding and or grasp of the game.

And most of all,...they do not place their own ego's before the wellbeing of the teams that they command.

It's okay...you can say what you really wanted to say here...I encourage it.

That last "attempting to avoid drafting any truly productive stud collegiate players so as vindicate himself as a guy who could not play in the pro's by having marginal talent succeed under his watch" post was high comedy. I look forward to your next effort. :lol:

You certainly do look forward to as much sir,...for if you and others who focused almost entirely on said quote were not obviously moved by it and uncomfortable with it's truth,...you wouldn't have gone out of your way to mock it as opposed to simply saying that you do not agree.

At which point you would provide some other form of psychoanalysis as to explain how pedestrian our drafts have become since your boy's arrival. :lol:

hawaiiansteel
01-25-2012, 02:42 AM
Jim Harbaugh does NOT want to talk about his feelings!

By Doug Farrar | Shutdown Corner

http://l.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/ICP4N4WCP5x1QqCQMLoc9w--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://media.zenfs.com/en/blogs/sptusnflexperts/yahoo_harbaugh2.jpg

"Go have a drum circle with someone else, creampuff!" (Getty Images)

Having had a couple of opportunities to speak with San Francisco 49ers head coach Jim Harbaugh on media calls this year, I'm well aware that while the man clearly knows as much about football as anyone on the planet, he's not always very open with reporters.

That's not unusual among coaches, though it's a bit jarring when you live in Seattle and are used to Pete Carroll's two-page opening statements.

In any case, and for a coach who can be truculent under the best circumstances, it was understandable that Harbaugh might be a little tight-lipped at Monday's end-of-season press conference. Still burning from the 49ers' NFC championship loss to the New York Giants, Harbaugh was short to the point of exasperation at times, refusing to answer certain questions with anything beyond a simple "No," or "I'm not going to turn this into a personnel meeting." He used that one a LOT. But Harbaugh saved the best for last, when one reporter asked what he did after the loss to the Giants.

"Is it just California that everybody just wants to know how you feel? Care about what you thought, what you did, how you felt, how your pinky feels. Is that just a California thing? Back where I come from, nobody really cares. In my opinion, it is a California thing."

Alrighty then!

Harbaugh spent a lot of time in Michigan — his father was an assistant coach for Bo Schembechler for seven years, and Harbaugh played quarterback for the Wolverines. But he also attended Palo Alto High School, and his time as the quarterbacks coach for the Oakland Raiders (2002-2003), the head coach for the University of San Diego (2004-2006) and as Stanford's head coach (2007-2010) should have had him way up on the more "touchy-feely" aspects of the Cali mindset. Maybe Harbaugh picked up that grumpiness from Mike Ditka — he played quarterback for Da Coach from 1987 through 1992 at the start of a 15-year NFL career.

Harbaugh was, however, a bit more open when talking about his feelings for a group of players that surprised the NFL with a 13-3 record after a decade without a winning season for the 49ers franchise. "I've said so often how proud I was of this team. I thought they played their hearts out. I thought we were a well-coached team. Be very proud of our guys. They stand toe-to-toe and fight every time they go out onto the field.

It didn't have the ending that we wanted. The football gods had a different ending in mind for this ballgame. [But I'll] be forever proud of our players and coaches the way they compete."

That must not be a "California thing." And if you expect him to interface with his players … well, think again. "I talk to all these guys every day. Pretty much every single day, almost every guy. They know how I feel. I know how they feel. No, we're not scheduling sit-down meetings with anybody on the team, from my standpoint, because I know them, they know me."

The coach was also still rolling one play over and over in his mind from the Giants loss — the ruling on the field that New York fullback Ahmad Bradshaw hadn't fumbled because his forward progress was stopped. It seemed an interesting call for a second-effort back such as Bradshaw, though Harbaugh may not have given his own defense enough credit for the stop.

"My opinion, that was a fumble," he said. "And I'm sure the league will defend it. And the officials will defend it. But to me the play was continuing. There was still struggling going on by Bradshaw. So, I feel like that was a fumble. We had a game against the Giants, the first time we played them, and Donte Whitner stripped the ball where the hit's made at the six and then he rips the ball out at the nine going backwards. Yeah, didn't like that it wasn't a fumble, but felt like that was forward progress. This one, I did not agree with. I felt like it was a fumble. I felt like this is analogous with the 'Tuck Rule.'"

Perhaps a valid point, but now, it's time to move on. What did Harbaugh learn about his team in his first year as an NFL coach — one that has him high on the list of Coach of the Year candidates?

"This is a class bunch of guys. It's a class group. A class team. They have never been a finger-pointing group. To a man that I've talked to, everybody looks at themselves in the mirror first. Things sting as it relates to what we could have done better."

He'll never be a New Age coach, but Harbaugh's old-school approach still clearly has a place in today's NFL.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutd ... 47819.html (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/jim-harbaugh-does-not-want-talk-feelings-180347819.html)

RuthlessBurgher
01-25-2012, 04:34 PM
I am man enough to admit that whether i like them or not,...the Harbaugh's are exceptional Coaches.

They are not merely motivational speakers,....they have a great understanding and or grasp of the game.

And most of all,...they do not place their own ego's before the wellbeing of the teams that they command.

It's okay...you can say what you really wanted to say here...I encourage it.

That last "attempting to avoid drafting any truly productive stud collegiate players so as vindicate himself as a guy who could not play in the pro's by having marginal talent succeed under his watch" post was high comedy. I look forward to your next effort. :lol:

You certainly do look forward to as much sir,...for if you and others who focused almost entirely on said quote were not obviously moved by it and uncomfortable with it's truth,...you wouldn't have gone out of your way to mock it as opposed to simply saying that you do not agree.

At which point you would provide some other form of psychoanalysis as to explain how pedestrian our drafts have become since your boy's arrival. :lol:

The draft immediately preceeding Tomlin's arrival was much better...a talented pothead who is now a clubhouse cancer on his second team, a false-start/holding machine who can't stay healthy, and 7 outright busts.

fezziwig
01-25-2012, 07:06 PM
you forgot to mention the flags have gotten thrown and some missed being thrown for spearing defensless players after, the plays are over.

msp26505
01-26-2012, 08:20 AM
You certainly do look forward to as much sir,...for if you and others who focused almost entirely on said quote were not obviously moved by it and uncomfortable with it's truth,...you wouldn't have gone out of your way to mock it as opposed to simply saying that you do not agree.

At which point you would provide some other form of psychoanalysis as to explain how pedestrian our drafts have become since your boy's arrival. :lol:

You are exceptionally verbose.

Slapstick
01-26-2012, 09:33 AM
...for if you and others who focused almost entirely on said quote were not obviously moved by it and uncomfortable with it's truth,...you wouldn't have gone out of your way to mock it as opposed to simply saying that you do not agree.

Oh, my bad!

I only mocked it because I didn't realize that you were actually serious...

Now that I know that you apparently meant it, I will make sure to simply ignore such irrational ravings in the future...