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View Full Version : Do We Need to Draft OLine Early?



flippy
01-22-2012, 09:23 PM
Everyone seems to want us to draft OLine in rounds 1-2. Is that the right strategy? Do you need to get Olinemen high in the draft, or should you take skill players early and linemen in later rounds?

isonator07
01-22-2012, 09:31 PM
Everyone seems to want us to draft OLine in rounds 1-2. Is that the right strategy? Do you need to get Olinemen high in the draft, or should you take skill players early and linemen in later rounds?

Flippy, for me I think we need some O-Line guys with high draft grades. I think outside of Gilbert, and Pouncey we've ignored the position for to long. When we've tried getting guys later in the draft we've missed.

I think we are almost to the point of needing to draft the best OL on the board as opposed to the traditional BPA approach we take. I'd like to see us take the best Guard on the board at 24 unless we move up. If we are in a spot where it absolutely doesn't make sense to take OL, I think NT is the next biggest need to address.

NJ-STEELER
01-22-2012, 09:33 PM
i think guards and RT can be found later in the draft.

LT and OC in the 1st is the way i prefer.

but, looking at where we could improve the most, i think a OG that can come in and start could do wonders for the offense. both in the running and passing game

if they feel they could get someone to do just as good in the 2nd or 3rd and draft an impact player somewhere else...i'm all for it

hawaiiansteel
01-22-2012, 10:02 PM
yes, we do need to upgrade our OL, particularly the OG position.

but if another higher ranked player at another position of need is sitting there still, the Steelers will go BPA as they should.

Steelgal
01-22-2012, 10:12 PM
I know the Steelers often will go BPA, but are there any positions you would NOT want them to draft in the first round??? I don't watch college, so couldn't tell you who is worth a 1st round pick or not.

DukieBoy
01-22-2012, 10:22 PM
Do we really need more skill players early in this draft? Sign the ones we have, those who ar FA's - they are fine.

We need to improve the O-line beginning with this draft. In recent years, waiting to wait to later rounds to draft O-line has not resulted in a strong line, and we did not get value out of Hills and Urbik.

We need to have dominant players at the LOS, both sides of the ball.

hawaiiansteel
01-22-2012, 10:24 PM
I know the Steelers often will go BPA, but are there any positions you would NOT want them to draft in the first round??? I don't watch college, so couldn't tell you who is worth a 1st round pick or not.


I wouldn't want the Steelers to draft a QB, C, SS, K or P in the 1st round but other than that BPA would work for me.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
01-23-2012, 11:06 AM
I don't understand the idea that linemen can be found anywhere and it is only worth drafting skill position players in the early rounds. The usual way to back up the point is to mention OL who were late picks and are starting in the NFL.

Well, can't that be said about any position? Take the starting QBs in the league.....

John Skelton - 5th round
Ryan Fitzpatrick - 7th round
Tony Romo - Undrafted
Matt Moore - Undrafted
Matt Hasselbeck - 6th round
Tom Brady - 6th round

Not exactly a who's who, but what about OL? Some of the best are guys like Joe Thomas, Logan Mankins, Nick Mangold, Jake Long - all first rounders.

No matter what position you are drafting, I would have to think that high draft picks have a substantially better chance at being making the team, contributing, and being great players than lower picks and undrafted players.

phillyesq
01-23-2012, 11:16 AM
I don't understand the idea that linemen can be found anywhere and it is only worth drafting skill position players in the early rounds. The usual way to back up the point is to mention OL who were late picks and are starting in the NFL.

Well, can't that be said about any position? Take the starting QBs in the league.....

John Skelton - 5th round
Ryan Fitzpatrick - 7th round
Tony Romo - Undrafted
Matt Moore - Undrafted
Matt Hasselbeck - 6th round
Tom Brady - 6th round

Not exactly a who's who, but what about OL? Some of the best are guys like Joe Thomas, Logan Mankins, Nick Mangold, Jake Long - all first rounders.

No matter what position you are drafting, I would have to think that high draft picks have a substantially better chance at being making the team, contributing, and being great players than lower picks and undrafted players.

Good post. There are examples of every position where stars were picked in the later rounds. When you look at the pro bowl rosters, you see a lot of first round picks but you also see a lot of later picks at each position.

The Steelers have struggled to uncover offensive lineman after the first two rounds for a while. Not coincidentally, the two players being counted on the most -- Pouncey and Gilbert -- were the highest picks.

I'd like to see the Steelers spend their first two picks on the trenches, assuming, of course, that there is appropriate value where the Steelers are picking.

steelz09
01-23-2012, 11:22 AM
we really need to address guard early. Outside of that, I don't see us drafting another o-line position early unless someone falls in our lap which is unlikely.

Let's take a look at tackle.

RT: The Steelers wrongfully overpaid Colon to play tackle so he is most likely our RT (or possibly RG). I personally would like Colon at RG and Gilbert at RT. For the purpose of this thread, let's say Colon is RT.

RG: Legursky, Foster, Essex, Rookie

C: Pouncey

LG: Legursky, Foster, Essex, Rookie

LT: Gilbert, Starks, Meredith

Synopsis: Guard is weak... very weak. Personally, I like the idea of Starks being at LT, Gilbert at RT, and Colon moving to RG. I think a line consisting of Starks (LT), Gilbert (RT), Pouncey (C), and Colon (RG) gets the 4 best o-line players on the field at once. It also keeps everyone in their existing position with the exception of Colon. However, Colon moving to guard would be great. He would succeed in that role imo. That leaves LG open for a rookie and I like that kid from Georgia.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
01-23-2012, 11:27 AM
I think the Steelers need & will address OG early (rounds 1-3). I also think they may draft a developmental LT later since the starting OTs seem to be intact. My feeling is 3 defensive picks in the first 4 rounds.

Oviedo
01-23-2012, 11:39 AM
Just repeat after me: Cordy Glenn, Cordy Glenn, Cordy Glenn, Cordy Glenn...

Until we fix the OL there isn't anything a new O Coord can do better than Arians.

steelz09
01-23-2012, 11:44 AM
Just repeat after me: Cordy Glenn, Cordy Glenn, Cordy Glenn, Cordy Glenn...

Until we fix the OL there isn't anything a new O Coord can do better than Arians.

I agree on the Cordy Glenn promotion.

I disagree on the Arians comment. Arians must be one of the most hard headed SOB in the NFL. He never adjusts and he does the opposite of common sense. For example, the Patriots game.... We could have thrown the ball to Heath Miller over and over and over again. For some unknown reason, Arians stops the short passing attack and starts w/ the deep routes. They didn't work and he still continued w/ the deep route playing calling! Why go AWAY from what WORKS?!?!

steelblood
01-23-2012, 12:48 PM
we really need to address guard early. Outside of that, I don't see us drafting another o-line position early unless someone falls in our lap which is unlikely.

Let's take a look at tackle.

RT: The Steelers wrongfully overpaid Colon to play tackle so he is most likely our RT (or possibly RG). I personally would like Colon at RG and Gilbert at RT. For the purpose of this thread, let's say Colon is RT.

RG: Legursky, Foster, Essex, Rookie

C: Pouncey

LG: Legursky, Foster, Essex, Rookie

LT: Gilbert, Starks, Meredith

Synopsis: Guard is weak... very weak. Personally, I like the idea of Starks being at LT, Gilbert at RT, and Colon moving to RG. I think a line consisting of Starks (LT), Gilbert (RT), Pouncey (C), and Colon (RG) gets the 4 best o-line players on the field at once. It also keeps everyone in their existing position with the exception of Colon. However, Colon moving to guard would be great. He would succeed in that role imo. That leaves LG open for a rookie and I like that kid from Georgia.

I believe Essex is a UFA.

focosteeler
01-23-2012, 01:19 PM
I think if we could get 2 solid interior guys that could come in and contribute it would help the offense a lot.

Gilbert-Rookie-Pouncey-Rookie-Colon

If Starks recovers 100% see if we can bring him back. Keep Legursky and Foster.

Dee Dub
01-23-2012, 01:26 PM
To answer your question flippy, it's very simple to me. The answer is "Yes" but only if the right ones are there. Dont just use a high pick on a position just because it is a position of need. Make sure you are getting the proper value for that selection. How many O-lineman that fit that description will be there at number #24? That is is the real question.

drprwnap
01-23-2012, 01:27 PM
GOOD GOD, YES!

RuthlessBurgher
01-23-2012, 01:32 PM
Just repeat after me: Cordy Glenn, Cordy Glenn, Cordy Glenn, Cordy Glenn...

Until we fix the OL there isn't anything a new O Coord can do better than Arians.

I'd like to land Glenn too, but acknowledge that the Bengals have two picks before we have our first pick, and they have a need at guard as well (I think they use their earlier pick from the Raiders at #17 on a flashier playmaker type, then fortify their OL with their own first rounder at #21). Frankly, I don't see Glenn getting past Cincy's second first round pick. If we wanted to trade up ahead of Cincy to #20, the cost would likely be something like our first and third for Tennessee's first and fifth. Is that a trade that you'd be willing to make to get Glenn? If not, you may not have a shot at getting him.

Personally, if it's feasible, even though it is pricier in terms of the compensation we'd have to sacrifice to move up, I'd prefer my other suggestion of our first and second for the Jets first and fourth to move up to get DeCastro instead, since he is more of a sure thing in my mind than Glenn (who I think should be a heck of a player, but there is always a chance that he eats himself out of the league...you never know with guys that big).

focosteeler
01-23-2012, 01:37 PM
To answer your question flippy, it's very simple to me. The answer is "Yes" but only if the right ones are there. Dont just use a high pick on a position just because it is a position of need. Make sure you are getting the proper value for that selection. How many O-lineman that fit that description will be there at number #24? That is is the real question.

:Agree
I think unless we trade up for decastro we go BPA in the 1st

Dee Dub
01-23-2012, 01:47 PM
Just repeat after me: Cordy Glenn, Cordy Glenn, Cordy Glenn, Cordy Glenn...

Until we fix the OL there isn't anything a new O Coord can do better than Arians.

I'd like to land Glenn too, but acknowledge that the Bengals have two picks before we have our first pick, and they have a need at guard as well (I think they use their earlier pick from the Raiders at #17 on a flashier playmaker type, then fortify their OL with their own first rounder at #21). Frankly, I don't see Glenn getting past Cincy's second first round pick. If we wanted to trade up ahead of Cincy to #20, the cost would likely be something like our first and third for Tennessee's first and fifth. Is that a trade that you'd be willing to make to get Glenn? If not, you may not have a shot at getting him.

Personally, if it's feasible, even though it is pricier in terms of the compensation we'd have to sacrifice to move up, I'd prefer my other suggestion of our first and second for the Jets first and fourth to move up to get DeCastro instead, since he is more of a sure thing in my mind than Glenn (who I think should be a heck of a player, but there is always a chance that he eats himself out of the league...you never know with guys that big).

I agree with you here Ruthless. In order for the Steelers to get an immediate impact starter on the O-line (as you have suggested in your mock), the Steelers will need to trade up. I doubt very seriously if Cordy Glenn falls to number #24. He dominated in the SEC at LT and many of the experts are predicting he will be even better inside at guard. Those types of players usually dont last till #24.

grotonsteel
01-23-2012, 02:10 PM
Steelers need to draft O-line Early. Its neglected for way too long.

Cordy Glenn and DeCastro are the only two O-line players i would draft at 24 though. I would draft Matt kalil too but he is a Top-3 player in the draft.

Rd 2 - I would draft Brandon Washington, OG.

phillyesq
01-23-2012, 02:32 PM
Just repeat after me: Cordy Glenn, Cordy Glenn, Cordy Glenn, Cordy Glenn...

Until we fix the OL there isn't anything a new O Coord can do better than Arians.

On this, we're in agreement. :Cheers

I can easily see myself jumping on the Cordy Glenn bandwagon unless, as Ruthless suggested, we trade up for DeCastro.

Dee Dub
01-23-2012, 02:35 PM
Steelers need to draft O-line Early. Its neglected for way too long.

Cordy Glenn and DeCastro are the only two O-line players i would draft at 24 though. I would draft Matt kalil too but he is a Top-3 player in the draft.

Rd 2 - I would draft Brandon Washington, OG.

See this is what I dont understand...you say we have too draft O-line early yet then go on to state only Decastro and Glenn are the only two you would draft at 24. grotonsteel, they arent going to be available at 24. No way. So how do we draft O-line early if no one is going to be there at 24 who is worthy?

flippy
01-23-2012, 02:54 PM
Don't get me wrong. If the right guy's there on the Oline, take him by all means. I did in my mock.

But we might not get a shot at an elite OLineman. And then at that point, I say our odds of getting a starter could be just as good in rounds 2-6.

Are our scouts to blame a bit for not being able to find hidden OLine talent? Or is BA to blame for calling mostly 7 step drops that force our line to block forever?

Guess we'll see as the offense evolves.

If we call the game differently, we might be good enough on the OLine.

SteelTorch
01-23-2012, 02:59 PM
I say go for it. Be tenacious. Drafting BPA hasn't always worked out for us. And in some cases, we've passed up good OL prospects for questionable draft choices. Exhibit A: Bruce Davis.

NW Steeler
01-23-2012, 04:00 PM
If they dont trade up to get Decastro or Glenn, then I hope they pick the massive NT in round one and go from there.

Slapstick
01-23-2012, 04:12 PM
What if:

DeCastro and Glenn are already gone, but OT Mike Adams is sitting there @ 1.24?

He has a late first round grade, so he wouldn't be a reach...

grotonsteel
01-23-2012, 04:31 PM
Steelers need to draft O-line Early. Its neglected for way too long.

Cordy Glenn and DeCastro are the only two O-line players i would draft at 24 though. I would draft Matt kalil too but he is a Top-3 player in the draft.

Rd 2 - I would draft Brandon Washington, OG.

See this is what I dont understand...you say we have too draft O-line early yet then go on to state only Decastro and Glenn are the only two you would draft at 24. grotonsteel, they arent going to be available at 24. No way. So how do we draft O-line early if no one is going to be there at 24 who is worthy?


Sorry..I should have stated clearly.

I am not saying Steelers should draft a O-line no matter what in Rd 1 itself. If Cordy Glenn or deCasto are not available at 24 then Steelers should look for BPA at 24. If Glenn or DeCastro are available at 24 i think it should be a no-brainer.

If Steelers are not drafting a O-lineman in Rd 1 i hope steelers go for a OL in Rd 2/Rd 3.

Rd 2- Brandon washington
Rd 3- Lucas Nix

I don't want Steelers to wait till Rd 5-UDFA to pick OG/OT in this draft.

BigRob
01-23-2012, 04:32 PM
Personally I think Osemele would be just a good of a pick as Glenn at pick 24 and he will be there.

BigRob
01-23-2012, 04:51 PM
What if:

DeCastro and Glenn are already gone, but OT Mike Adams is sitting there @ 1.24?

He has a late first round grade, so he wouldn't be a reach...

Wishful thinking:

Wes Bunting (twitter)
Hearing that some NFL teams see #OhioState OT Mike Adams as a potential top 15 talent, could be in for big week #SeniorBowl

Dee Dub
01-23-2012, 07:46 PM
Personally I think Osemele would be just a good of a pick as Glenn at pick 24 and he will be there.

You mean the guy I watched struggle all year at pass blocking? The same guy who in the first day of Senior Bowl practice continued his consistency and stuck up the joint? No way!!

I am telling you...stay way from that guy.

Dee Dub
01-23-2012, 07:48 PM
What if:

DeCastro and Glenn are already gone, but OT Mike Adams is sitting there @ 1.24?

He has a late first round grade, so he wouldn't be a reach...

Wishful thinking:

Wes Bunting (twitter)
Hearing that some NFL teams see #OhioState OT Mike Adams as a potential top 15 talent, could be in for big week #SeniorBowl

What I saw of him today wasnt a first round grade. He got beat like a drum by Vinny Curry several times...but I will say he got better as the day progressed. I think he is better as a second round pick.

BigRob
01-23-2012, 08:04 PM
What if:

DeCastro and Glenn are already gone, but OT Mike Adams is sitting there @ 1.24?

He has a late first round grade, so he wouldn't be a reach...

Wishful thinking:

Wes Bunting (twitter)
Hearing that some NFL teams see #OhioState OT Mike Adams as a potential top 15 talent, could be in for big week #SeniorBowl

What I saw of him today wasnt a first round grade. He got beat like a drum by Vinny Curry several times...but I will say he got better as the day progressed. I think he is better as a second round pick.

You may be right, but he will be long gone before we pick. Everyone else is saying he stole the show today.

Dee Dub
01-23-2012, 08:08 PM
What if:

DeCastro and Glenn are already gone, but OT Mike Adams is sitting there @ 1.24?

He has a late first round grade, so he wouldn't be a reach...

Wishful thinking:

Wes Bunting (twitter)
Hearing that some NFL teams see #OhioState OT Mike Adams as a potential top 15 talent, could be in for big week #SeniorBowl

What I saw of him today wasnt a first round grade. He got beat like a drum by Vinny Curry several times...but I will say he got better as the day progressed. I think he is better as a second round pick.

You may be right, but he will be long gone before we pick. Everyone else is saying he stole the show today.

I've been wrong before. To be fair, Vinny Curry gave him struggles but that guys is a beast.

BigRob
01-23-2012, 08:25 PM
[quote=Slapstick]What if:

DeCastro and Glenn are already gone, but OT Mike Adams is sitting there @ 1.24?

He has a late first round grade, so he wouldn't be a reach...

Wishful thinking:

Wes Bunting (twitter)
Hearing that some NFL teams see #OhioState OT Mike Adams as a potential top 15 talent, could be in for big week #SeniorBowl

What I saw of him today wasnt a first round grade. He got beat like a drum by Vinny Curry several times...but I will say he got better as the day progressed. I think he is better as a second round pick.

You may be right, but he will be long gone before we pick. Everyone else is saying he stole the show today.

I've been wrong before. To be fair, Vinny Curry gave him struggles but that guys is a beast.[/quote:yjk68obe]

A lot of what your saying makes sense, and I wouldn't be surprised to see Adams get over drafted. That doesn't mean he's value at that pick, just that he may get drafted their.

The more I research, the more I agree with you on Osemele.

Slapstick
01-23-2012, 10:49 PM
I don't think Mike Adams is an overdraft @ 1.24...

I also don't think you grade a player based only on one Senior Bowl practice...

There are more practices, the actual game, the combine, pro days...

Not to mention all of the actual game tape...

sentinel33
01-24-2012, 08:44 PM
Still don't know why Foster gets no love. When he's in the lineup at RG we have a better win percentage than when he is not. He has gotten better every year.

Getting a LG is priority. A starting LG in the 24th position would be ideal. Certainly don't trade up for one, though. If one isn't there, then take a BPA at DL, LB or DB.

That LG spot has got to be fixed before the season.

RuthlessBurgher
01-25-2012, 11:23 AM
Still don't know why Foster gets no love. When he's in the lineup at RG we have a better win percentage than when he is not. He has gotten better every year.

Getting a LG is priority. A starting LG in the 24th position would be ideal. Certainly don't trade up for one, though. If one isn't there, then take a BPA at DL, LB or DB.

That LG spot has got to be fixed before the season.

I trade up for one.

I think that David DeCastro is head and shoulders above Cordy Glenn and the other OG candidates and that is our biggest need, just like Troy Polamalu was head and shoulders :P above Mike Doss and the other safeties when safety was our biggest need and we traded up for him, and Santonio Holmes was head and shoulders above Chad Jackson and the other wideouts when WR was our biggest need and we traded up for him.

steeler_george
01-25-2012, 11:25 AM
Still don't know why Foster gets no love. When he's in the lineup at RG we have a better win percentage than when he is not. He has gotten better every year.

Getting a LG is priority. A starting LG in the 24th position would be ideal. Certainly don't trade up for one, though. If one isn't there, then take a BPA at DL, LB or DB.

That LG spot has got to be fixed before the season.

:Agree

Foster is solid at best, but we need to add something than solid to get the offense rolling especially in the red zone.

Currently, we have no depth on the OL, which means there is no one pushing them to work harder. Kemo is certainly gone. Essex, I had enough of him. Leg is soild but would be ideal to keep as the inside swing man. We need 2 guards in this draft one to start right away and the other to be able to play when needed. That also goes for the tackle position.

currently penciled in to start:
Gilber-Leg-Pouncey-Foster-Colon

inside reserves: Essex (?), C. Scott
outisde reserves: Essex(?), and that one kid from the practice squad.

Slapstick
01-25-2012, 01:53 PM
If there is a draft OT, the Steelers can't go wrong there either...