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hawaiiansteel
01-21-2012, 11:04 PM
Arians’ departure a shell game of semantics

Posted by Mike Florio on January 21, 2012

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/benbruce-e1327169335377.jpg?w=235

Steelers offensive coordinator Bruce Arians has retired. Jason LaCanfora of NFL Network reports that the retirement occurred after the Steelers told Arians that his contract would not be renewed.

But the same source who tells LaCanfora that Arians was told his contract wouldn’t be renewed told LaCanfora that Arians wasn’t fired.

It’s a matter of semantics. When an employee under contract has that contract expire and the employer tells the employee that contract won’t be renewed, the employee necessarily has been . . . wait for it . . . fired. It happened to Mike Tice in Minnesota six years ago, and it has happened to countless other head coaches and assistant coaches whose contracts end along with their employment.

Millions of Americans show up for work every day without contracts for employment. They’re called “at-will” employees, which means that the relationship continues only as long as both sides want it to continue. And if/when the employer decides not to continue the relationship, the employee has been, yes, fired.

But the story gets even more interesting. Gerry Dulac of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette explains that coach Mike Tomlin had told Arians on multiple occasions that Tomlin wanted Arians to return in 2012, and that Arians had told others he had planned to be back. Citing unnamed sources, Dulac says that the decision came from someone higher in the organization than Tomlin, even though owner Art Rooney II said on WDVE radio before Friday’s retirement announcement that Arians’ status was “really Mike’s decision.”

If Tomlin was indeed trumped, it’s at least the second time this year that a Tomlin decision was vetoed by someone else in the organization. Tomlin, as others have reported and as PFT has learned, led running back Tiki Barber to believe that the Steelers would sign him — and Tomlin ultimately was prevented from doing so.

The bigger question will be whether and to what extent this move adversely affects the relationship between the Steelers and quarterback Ben Roethlisberger. Per Dulac, Roethlisberger is upset that Arians won’t be back.

Roethlisberger’s discontent also could arise at least in part from the fact that, unlike two years ago, he was unable to save Arians’ job.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... semantics/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/21/arians-departure-a-shell-game-of-semantics/)

Steelers>NFL
01-21-2012, 11:16 PM
boo-fukking-hoo Ben. Get over it!
Now it is time to GROW up! :Binky

Shoe
01-21-2012, 11:22 PM
boo-fukking-hoo Ben. Get over it!
Now it is time to GROW up! :Binky

+1
Get over it Ben. If you wanted to save his job, you should've made it impossible for the team to get rid of him. i.e. Produce like an offense with a franchise QB should. Brady puts up points galore. Rodgers the same. Brees too.

Ghost
01-21-2012, 11:25 PM
Seems as if this is ownership questioning the Head Coach's decision making skills.

And Ben needs to remember he is an employee. B!tch but then get on board. The new guy may make you better.

Steelhere10
01-21-2012, 11:46 PM
Ben acts like a big b*&ch. Who cares.

JDSteeler
01-22-2012, 12:18 AM
boo-fukking-hoo Ben. Get over it!
Now it is time to GROW up! :Binky

+1
Get over it Ben. If you wanted to save his job, you should've made it impossible for the team to get rid of him. i.e. Produce like an offense with a franchise QB should. Brady puts up points galore. Rodgers the same. Brees too.

Exactly Shoe...

Friggin Ben is so upset about Arianus than the offense should have been able to put up
30 pts a game!!!!!!!!!!

7-pts per quarter with the weapons on the offense is nothing...especially with the refs
giving all the calls to the offense anyway....

So if Ben is having a Big Vag!na moment....he needs to get his flabby 100-million dollar ass in the gym, and stop feeling sorry for AriANUS poor feelings!!!!

Its time somebody challenged Ben to get better, than coddling him to be average.

Its also hard for me to believe that Ben can be this upset over something like this, cuz he never shows any anger on the field when AriANUS is running the offense into the ground!!!

JD

SteelBucks
01-22-2012, 12:19 AM
Love Ben, but he should be more upset that the offense was ranked #21 in scoring. That is the reason why Arians is no longer around.

TallyStiller
01-22-2012, 12:42 AM
Remember how p!ssed Ben was that Plax wasn't offered a contract that kept him here? That one seems to have worked out OK. Think this one will, too.

7 UP
01-22-2012, 07:29 AM
Arians’ departure a shell game of semantics


The bigger question will be whether and to what extent this move adversely affects the relationship between the Steelers and quarterback Ben Roethlisberger. Per Dulac, Roethlisberger is upset that Arians won’t be back.

Roethlisberger’s discontent also could arise at least in part from the fact that, unlike two years ago, he was unable to save Arians’ job.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... semantics/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/21/arians-departure-a-shell-game-of-semantics/)

Lets take it easy on Ben here. The above statement is purely speculation on Dulacs part. Ben hasnt said anything, or done anything wrong. Im sure Ben isnt happy about this. He is allowed not to be. But as long as he does whats in the best interest of the Steelers, and that means keeping his mouth shut, then I have no problem at all with Ben.

phillyesq
01-22-2012, 08:57 AM
Hopefully, if Ben is upset, he looks at the situation and realizes that he could have played a part in saving BAs job, but failed to do so. Hopefully he realizes that he and the offense did not play up to expectations and vows to work harder to get better.

JAR
01-22-2012, 09:28 AM
So, all of you are getting that Ben is a big spoiled baby out of that statement? Of course he's probably upset. Players always get upset when a coach they like move on.

If Lebeau left, you don't think the entire defense would be freaking?

NorthCoast
01-22-2012, 09:41 AM
These posts are spot on.

The best way to save/keep your job is to excel at it. BAs entire career has been mediocre at best, and if Ben took an honest look, the ONLY thing that extended Arians' career with the Steelers is Ben (his play or his pleading). With a QB like McCoy, BA would have been gone two years ago or sooner. Ben made BA better, not the other way around.

All these open positions around the NFL, let's see how many offers Arians gets now that he is free to chose.....

And I wouldn't make much of Dulac's comments. Of course Ben is upset Arians won't be back. BA was not only his OC but a good friend as well. If you lost a good friend at work, you would say you are 'upset' too.

williar
01-22-2012, 10:35 AM
boo-fukking-hoo Ben. Get over it!
Now it is time to GROW up! :Binky

+1
Get over it Ben. If you wanted to save his job, you should've made it impossible for the team to get rid of him. i.e. Produce like an offense with a franchise QB should. Brady puts up points galore. Rodgers the same. Brees too.

+2
Time for Ben to emerge from the Arians incubator and step into some (hopefully) big boy offensive scheming and game planning from (hopefully) REAL offensive coordinator.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-22-2012, 10:52 AM
If a players contract is not renewed, nobody at all says he was fired. Why is a coach different?

feltdizz
01-22-2012, 11:16 AM
Some people need BA to be fired because it creates more opportunities to write articles.

As far as Ben being upset. Why is this news?

fezziwig
01-22-2012, 11:17 AM
All I hear is that todays offenses are not run oriented, it's a passing league, the offenses are setup to score points, the defenses have their hands tied. I get it that the era of running the ball is over. If you want to win in this league you better put up points.
How many games have you watched that, the team that has the ball last, usually wins ?

I also get that Arians doesn't want a fullback, he wants to air it out.

Tomlin, the Steelers front office gave Ben and Arians all that they needed to accomplish all of the above and still, they only ranked 21 in offense. It was time for a change and it was time for a change before too. If you have a QB questioning his coaches play calls then, why have a OC ?
Ben and Arians were too buddy buddy to me. Sure Ben is upset that Arians is gone, Ben may have lost some power or control. I always said, " Ben likes arians because Ben, runs Arians. "
Not saying Ben couldn't have some positive input but, allow the coaches to coach and the players to play. I wonder if this was some of the reason Ben and Wiz didn't see eye to eye ?

papillon
01-22-2012, 12:30 PM
All I hear is that todays offenses are not run oriented, it's a passing league, the offenses are setup to score points, the defenses have their hands tied. I get it that the era of running the ball is over. If you want to win in this league you better put up points.
How many games have you watched that, the team that has the ball last, usually wins ?

I also get that Arians doesn't want a fullback, he wants to air it out.

Tomlin, the Steelers front office gave Ben and Arians all that they needed to accomplish all of the above and still, they only ranked 21 in offense. It was time for a change and it was time for a change before too. If you have a QB questioning his coaches play calls then, why have a OC ?
Ben and Arians were too buddy buddy to me. Sure Ben is upset that Arians is gone, Ben may have lost some power or control. I always said, " Ben likes arians because Ben, runs Arians. "
Not saying Ben couldn't have some positive input but, allow the coaches to coach and the players to play. I wonder if this was some of the reason Ben and Wiz didn't see eye to eye ?

Just to continue the discussion about the Steeler offense and Bruce Arians I'd like to comment about the highlighted and enlarged statement. What tools did the FO and Tomlin give Ben and Arians?

The offensive line is a rag tag bunch with only one player that could play on a team in the top third of the NFL (Pouncey). We may like the others (except Kemo, of course), but they are average offensive lineman by and large. they each will have games where they dominate, but from a consistency standpoint they are not above the line. The receivers are young and improving, but they wouldn't be playing or limited playing time on teams in the top third of the league. Ben is an elite quarterback and really the only player of such status on the offense. The running backs are the same as the WRs, nothing horrible, but nothing top notch either (Mendy is still potential in my opinion).

Why we expect Arians to make lemonade out of these oranges and apples is beyond me. Without Steeler colored glasses on I think we see that the offense isn't all that and a bag of chips and maybe, Ben and Arians got more out of the group than their talent level dictates.

Just my opinion...

Pappy

NJ-STEELER
01-22-2012, 12:42 PM
All I hear is that todays offenses are not run oriented, it's a passing league, the offenses are setup to score points, the defenses have their hands tied. I get it that the era of running the ball is over. If you want to win in this league you better put up points.
How many games have you watched that, the team that has the ball last, usually wins ?

I also get that Arians doesn't want a fullback, he wants to air it out.

Tomlin, the Steelers front office gave Ben and Arians all that they needed to accomplish all of the above and still, they only ranked 21 in offense. It was time for a change and it was time for a change before too. If you have a QB questioning his coaches play calls then, why have a OC ?
Ben and Arians were too buddy buddy to me. Sure Ben is upset that Arians is gone, Ben may have lost some power or control. I always said, " Ben likes arians because Ben, runs Arians. "
Not saying Ben couldn't have some positive input but, allow the coaches to coach and the players to play. I wonder if this was some of the reason Ben and Wiz didn't see eye to eye ?

Just to continue the discussion about the Steeler offense and Bruce Arians I'd like to comment about the highlighted and enlarged statement. What tools did the FO and Tomlin give Ben and Arians?

The offensive line is a rag tag bunch with only one player that could play on a team in the top third of the NFL (Pouncey). We may like the others (except Kemo, of course), but they are average offensive lineman by and large. they each will have games where they dominate, but from a consistency standpoint they are not above the line. The receivers are young and improving, but they wouldn't be playing or limited playing time on teams in the top third of the league. Ben is an elite quarterback and really the only player of such status on the offense. The running backs are the same as the WRs, nothing horrible, but nothing top notch either (Mendy is still potential in my opinion).

Why we expect Arians to make lemonade out of these oranges and apples is beyond me. Without Steeler colored glasses on I think we see that the offense isn't all that and a bag of chips and maybe, Ben and Arians got more out of the group than their talent level dictates.

Just my opinion...

Pappy

yeah, taking a look team by team. i dont see a big difference with the weapons on our offense and those at the bottom of the rankings

feltdizz
01-22-2012, 01:24 PM
The teams at the bottom get the highest picks so they will have better players at the skill positions IMO. You have to look at the teams who consistently draft in the 20 and up range every year. We tend to draft picks who "fall" to us vs making a move or getting "That guy!" coming out of college.

We never get a Calvin Johnson but we turned Wallace into that type of player production wise... add Brown, Sanders (when healthy)... to that list and you have guys who were drafted later getting better production then expected and somehow fans turn this into "weapons-a-plenty"

rockonsteel
01-22-2012, 01:40 PM
All I hear is that todays offenses are not run oriented, it's a passing league, the offenses are setup to score points, the defenses have their hands tied. I get it that the era of running the ball is over. If you want to win in this league you better put up points.
How many games have you watched that, the team that has the ball last, usually wins ?

I also get that Arians doesn't want a fullback, he wants to air it out.

Tomlin, the Steelers front office gave Ben and Arians all that they needed to accomplish all of the above and still, they only ranked 21 in offense. It was time for a change and it was time for a change before too. If you have a QB questioning his coaches play calls then, why have a OC ?
Ben and Arians were too buddy buddy to me. Sure Ben is upset that Arians is gone, Ben may have lost some power or control. I always said, " Ben likes arians because Ben, runs Arians. "
Not saying Ben couldn't have some positive input but, allow the coaches to coach and the players to play. I wonder if this was some of the reason Ben and Wiz didn't see eye to eye ?

Just to continue the discussion about the Steeler offense and Bruce Arians I'd like to comment about the highlighted and enlarged statement. What tools did the FO and Tomlin give Ben and Arians?

The offensive line is a rag tag bunch with only one player that could play on a team in the top third of the NFL (Pouncey). We may like the others (except Kemo, of course), but they are average offensive lineman by and large. they each will have games where they dominate, but from a consistency standpoint they are not above the line. The receivers are young and improving, but they wouldn't be playing or limited playing time on teams in the top third of the league. Ben is an elite quarterback and really the only player of such status on the offense. The running backs are the same as the WRs, nothing horrible, but nothing top notch either (Mendy is still potential in my opinion).

Why we expect Arians to make lemonade out of these oranges and apples is beyond me. Without Steeler colored glasses on I think we see that the offense isn't all that and a bag of chips and maybe, Ben and Arians got more out of the group than their talent level dictates.

Just my opinion...

Pappy

Yo Pap, my man. I'm not sure what you're smoking, but hit me with a PM so we can discuss where I might acquire some.

Nah, but seriously, you are letting Arians failure to properly utilize the tools at his disposal to confuse you into mistaking average production for average talent. There are very skilled players all across this offense...

QB-no need to elaborate as you've acknowledged that he is elite. But, for all the success he's had, many believe there was a lot more left on the field because Arians didn't maximize the offense.

RB-for all the criticism Rashard Mendenhall gets, the kid is actually a pretty good back. Again, BA failed to maximize the kids' talents and instead did things that exposed his weaknesses. No FB, long developing, telegraphed runs to the right, one back RUTFM.
RM has pretty good hands, but you hardly ever see him on swing passes out the backfield. What about REAL RB screens? RM should be getting a minimum of 30-35 catches out of the backfield a season.

WR-this is where you are really bugging out. Do you know what a guy like Sean Payton, or Mike McCarthy, or hell Chan Gailey would do with a QB like Ben weapons like Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders? Yes all young, but all very talented, and that's not even counting Jerrico Cotchery. Here's a hint, it wouldn't be bubble screen city, and you bet your a$$ they'd score more than 20 ppg.

TE-Heath Miller is 1st rd. pick. He has never been fully utilized the way the Eagles use a Celek, or Witten with the Cowboys, or Heap when he was with the Ravens. But, he is/was every bit as talented. Whenever the Steelers did use him, they were very successful. Heath should've easily averaged 20-30 more catches per season than he did under Arians. But, instead he was wasted. Often reduced to a hood ornament at times.
And then there's Wes Saunders. He had some flashes in the few limited opportunities he was given, but again, we didn't see enough of him. Guys like Jimmy Graham this year, the kid from KC last year(Moeaki?), Finley before he was hurt last year, Gronkowski, Hernandez, the list goes on. These are the new breed of TE. Other teams are using for the weapons they are. Saunders was an afterthought in Arinas offense like TEs so often are. Graham, Finley, Gronk, et al, are pretty much household names now in the football world. If any of them played for the Steelers, nobody but Steelers fan would have any idea who they were. Conversely, if Saunders was in one of those other situations, he'd be shining just like those dudes.

So, to wrap it up. Don't let Arians inability to properly use the tools at his disposal fool you into believing that those tools are faulty. You can give two men a hammer, a saw and some wood. One man may build you a house, and the other may just build you a pile of random pieces of wood cut and nailed together. Is that on the tools or the carpenter?


Rockon

rockonsteel
01-22-2012, 01:49 PM
The teams at the bottom get the highest picks so they will have better players at the skill positions IMO. You have to look at the teams who consistently draft in the 20 and up range every year. We tend to draft picks who "fall" to us vs making a move or getting "That guy!" coming out of college.

We never get a Calvin Johnson but we turned Wallace into that type of player production wise... add Brown, Sanders (when healthy)... to that list and you have guys who were drafted later getting better production then expected and somehow fans turn this into "weapons-a-plenty"


It's not always about where they're drafted. That's just so there's some order to the selection process. It's about what they do once they get on the field. I guarantee you if they did a re-draft with all hindsight knowledge in place, Mike Wallace doesn't make it to the third round. And somehow, I doubt Brady would've lasted until the sixth round.

History is littered with first-round busts, late-round hall-of-famers and undrafted SB MVPs. The Steelers have a roster that currently consists of several players who have outplayed their draft slot. Cummulatively they form what a great deal of people on football consider "weapons-a-plenty".

Question is, if you watch Steelers football games, why can't you see that? Are you also being duped by the mediocre results of Arians genius?

Rockon

rockonsteel
01-22-2012, 02:01 PM
All I hear is that todays offenses are not run oriented, it's a passing league, the offenses are setup to score points, the defenses have their hands tied. I get it that the era of running the ball is over. If you want to win in this league you better put up points.
How many games have you watched that, the team that has the ball last, usually wins ?

I also get that Arians doesn't want a fullback, he wants to air it out.

Tomlin, the Steelers front office gave Ben and Arians all that they needed to accomplish all of the above and still, they only ranked 21 in offense. It was time for a change and it was time for a change before too. If you have a QB questioning his coaches play calls then, why have a OC ?
Ben and Arians were too buddy buddy to me. Sure Ben is upset that Arians is gone, Ben may have lost some power or control. I always said, " Ben likes arians because Ben, runs Arians. "
Not saying Ben couldn't have some positive input but, allow the coaches to coach and the players to play. I wonder if this was some of the reason Ben and Wiz didn't see eye to eye ?

Just to continue the discussion about the Steeler offense and Bruce Arians I'd like to comment about the highlighted and enlarged statement. What tools did the FO and Tomlin give Ben and Arians?

The offensive line is a rag tag bunch with only one player that could play on a team in the top third of the NFL (Pouncey). We may like the others (except Kemo, of course), but they are average offensive lineman by and large. they each will have games where they dominate, but from a consistency standpoint they are not above the line. The receivers are young and improving, but they wouldn't be playing or limited playing time on teams in the top third of the league. Ben is an elite quarterback and really the only player of such status on the offense. The running backs are the same as the WRs, nothing horrible, but nothing top notch either (Mendy is still potential in my opinion).

Why we expect Arians to make lemonade out of these oranges and apples is beyond me. Without Steeler colored glasses on I think we see that the offense isn't all that and a bag of chips and maybe, Ben and Arians got more out of the group than their talent level dictates.

Just my opinion...

Pappy

yeah, taking a lookteam bt team. i dont see a big difference with the weapons on our offense and those at the bottom of the rankings


And let's just say you were right(which you're not, but for the sake of argument). How many of those teams have a top 5 or even top10 QB throwing them the ball?

Rockon

flippy
01-22-2012, 02:19 PM
I hope we get an OC that Ben can't stand. He needs to be pushed to be better.

Steelhere10
01-22-2012, 02:20 PM
Rockon... you have said enough, I don't even have to comment.
I am willing to bet 28 out of 32 teams would trade all their wr,te and backs to have what the Steelers (EVEN NE- THE TE POS.) have at that position, But yet they RARELY crack the top 10 in production. Some of that is Ben and OLINE but 50% was BA IMO.

papillon
01-22-2012, 03:12 PM
All I hear is that todays offenses are not run oriented, it's a passing league, the offenses are setup to score points, the defenses have their hands tied. I get it that the era of running the ball is over. If you want to win in this league you better put up points.
How many games have you watched that, the team that has the ball last, usually wins ?

I also get that Arians doesn't want a fullback, he wants to air it out.

Tomlin, the Steelers front office gave Ben and Arians all that they needed to accomplish all of the above and still, they only ranked 21 in offense. It was time for a change and it was time for a change before too. If you have a QB questioning his coaches play calls then, why have a OC ?
Ben and Arians were too buddy buddy to me. Sure Ben is upset that Arians is gone, Ben may have lost some power or control. I always said, " Ben likes arians because Ben, runs Arians. "
Not saying Ben couldn't have some positive input but, allow the coaches to coach and the players to play. I wonder if this was some of the reason Ben and Wiz didn't see eye to eye ?

Just to continue the discussion about the Steeler offense and Bruce Arians I'd like to comment about the highlighted and enlarged statement. What tools did the FO and Tomlin give Ben and Arians?

The offensive line is a rag tag bunch with only one player that could play on a team in the top third of the NFL (Pouncey). We may like the others (except Kemo, of course), but they are average offensive lineman by and large. they each will have games where they dominate, but from a consistency standpoint they are not above the line. The receivers are young and improving, but they wouldn't be playing or limited playing time on teams in the top third of the league. Ben is an elite quarterback and really the only player of such status on the offense. The running backs are the same as the WRs, nothing horrible, but nothing top notch either (Mendy is still potential in my opinion).

Why we expect Arians to make lemonade out of these oranges and apples is beyond me. Without Steeler colored glasses on I think we see that the offense isn't all that and a bag of chips and maybe, Ben and Arians got more out of the group than their talent level dictates.

Just my opinion...

Pappy

Yo Pap, my man. I'm not sure what you're smoking, but hit me with a PM so we can discuss where I might acquire some.

Nah, but seriously, you are letting Arians failure to properly utilize the tools at his disposal to confuse you into mistaking average production for average talent. There are very skilled players all across this offense...

QB-no need to elaborate as you've acknowledged that he is elite. But, for all the success he's had, many believe there was a lot more left on the field because Arians didn't maximize the offense.

RB-for all the criticism Rashard Mendenhall gets, the kid is actually a pretty good back. Again, BA failed to maximize the kids' talents and instead did things that exposed his weaknesses. No FB, long developing, telegraphed runs to the right, one back RUTFM.
RM has pretty good hands, but you hardly ever see him on swing passes out the backfield. What about REAL RB screens? RM should be getting a minimum of 30-35 catches out of the backfield a season.

WR-this is where you are really bugging out. Do you know what a guy like Sean Payton, or Mike McCarthy, or hell Chan Gailey would do with a QB like Ben weapons like Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders? Yes all young, but all very talented, and that's not even counting Jerrico Cotchery. Here's a hint, it wouldn't be bubble screen city, and you bet your a$$ they'd score more than 20 ppg.

TE-Heath Miller is 1st rd. pick. He has never been fully utilized the way the Eagles use a Celek, or Witten with the Cowboys, or Heap when he was with the Ravens. But, he is/was every bit as talented. Whenever the Steelers did use him, they were very successful. Heath should've easily averaged 20-30 more catches per season than he did under Arians. But, instead he was wasted. Often reduced to a hood ornament at times.
And then there's Wes Saunders. He had some flashes in the few limited opportunities he was given, but again, we didn't see enough of him. Guys like Jimmy Graham this year, the kid from KC last year(Moeaki?), Finley before he was hurt last year, Gronkowski, Hernandez, the list goes on. These are the new breed of TE. Other teams are using for the weapons they are. Saunders was an afterthought in Arinas offense like TEs so often are. Graham, Finley, Gronk, et al, are pretty much household names now in the football world. If any of them played for the Steelers, nobody but Steelers fan would have any idea who they were. Conversely, if Saunders was in one of those other situations, he'd be shining just like those dudes.

So, to wrap it up. Don't let Arians inability to properly use the tools at his disposal fool you into believing that those tools are faulty. You can give two men a hammer, a saw and some wood. One man may build you a house, and the other may just build you a pile of random pieces of wood cut and nailed together. Is that on the tools or the carpenter?


Rockon

IMO, oyur evaluation of the WRs and RBs is through the Steeler colored glasses I alluded to in my post. Sanders can't stay healthy, Wallace played half a season, Cotchery caught a few balls, only AB was consistent for the entire year.

Running back is being evaluated on draft position rather tan production, Mendy managed under 1000 yards this year, missed a year with a shoulder injury and showed flashes last year.

Heath is a great all around tight end, but his blocking is being negated by the fact that the Steelers don't run the ball like they used to and he isn't a pass catcher like Gronk, Graham, et al.

The offensive line is in shambles right now due to injury and lack of NFL talent.

Ben is one of the best.

Arians may not be the answer, but he wasn't nearly the problem many make hinm out to be. An upgrade in offensive talent will go a long way to making an OC look very good.

Arians is gone and I'm good with it, I would have been good with him returning. We'll see what happens next year if there isn't an upgrade in talent or improvement in what the Steelers have. We'll just agree to disagree about Arians' role in an inconsistent offense.

Pappy

rockonsteel
01-22-2012, 03:30 PM
All I hear is that todays offenses are not run oriented, it's a passing league, the offenses are setup to score points, the defenses have their hands tied. I get it that the era of running the ball is over. If you want to win in this league you better put up points.
How many games have you watched that, the team that has the ball last, usually wins ?

I also get that Arians doesn't want a fullback, he wants to air it out.

Tomlin, the Steelers front office gave Ben and Arians all that they needed to accomplish all of the above and still, they only ranked 21 in offense. It was time for a change and it was time for a change before too. If you have a QB questioning his coaches play calls then, why have a OC ?
Ben and Arians were too buddy buddy to me. Sure Ben is upset that Arians is gone, Ben may have lost some power or control. I always said, " Ben likes arians because Ben, runs Arians. "
Not saying Ben couldn't have some positive input but, allow the coaches to coach and the players to play. I wonder if this was some of the reason Ben and Wiz didn't see eye to eye ?

Just to continue the discussion about the Steeler offense and Bruce Arians I'd like to comment about the highlighted and enlarged statement. What tools did the FO and Tomlin give Ben and Arians?

The offensive line is a rag tag bunch with only one player that could play on a team in the top third of the NFL (Pouncey). We may like the others (except Kemo, of course), but they are average offensive lineman by and large. they each will have games where they dominate, but from a consistency standpoint they are not above the line. The receivers are young and improving, but they wouldn't be playing or limited playing time on teams in the top third of the league. Ben is an elite quarterback and really the only player of such status on the offense. The running backs are the same as the WRs, nothing horrible, but nothing top notch either (Mendy is still potential in my opinion).

Why we expect Arians to make lemonade out of these oranges and apples is beyond me. Without Steeler colored glasses on I think we see that the offense isn't all that and a bag of chips and maybe, Ben and Arians got more out of the group than their talent level dictates.

Just my opinion...

Pappy

Yo Pap, my man. I'm not sure what you're smoking, but hit me with a PM so we can discuss where I might acquire some.

Nah, but seriously, you are letting Arians failure to properly utilize the tools at his disposal to confuse you into mistaking average production for average talent. There are very skilled players all across this offense...

QB-no need to elaborate as you've acknowledged that he is elite. But, for all the success he's had, many believe there was a lot more left on the field because Arians didn't maximize the offense.

RB-for all the criticism Rashard Mendenhall gets, the kid is actually a pretty good back. Again, BA failed to maximize the kids' talents and instead did things that exposed his weaknesses. No FB, long developing, telegraphed runs to the right, one back RUTFM.
RM has pretty good hands, but you hardly ever see him on swing passes out the backfield. What about REAL RB screens? RM should be getting a minimum of 30-35 catches out of the backfield a season.

WR-this is where you are really bugging out. Do you know what a guy like Sean Payton, or Mike McCarthy, or hell Chan Gailey would do with a QB like Ben weapons like Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders? Yes all young, but all very talented, and that's not even counting Jerrico Cotchery. Here's a hint, it wouldn't be bubble screen city, and you bet your a$$ they'd score more than 20 ppg.

TE-Heath Miller is 1st rd. pick. He has never been fully utilized the way the Eagles use a Celek, or Witten with the Cowboys, or Heap when he was with the Ravens. But, he is/was every bit as talented. Whenever the Steelers did use him, they were very successful. Heath should've easily averaged 20-30 more catches per season than he did under Arians. But, instead he was wasted. Often reduced to a hood ornament at times.
And then there's Wes Saunders. He had some flashes in the few limited opportunities he was given, but again, we didn't see enough of him. Guys like Jimmy Graham this year, the kid from KC last year(Moeaki?), Finley before he was hurt last year, Gronkowski, Hernandez, the list goes on. These are the new breed of TE. Other teams are using for the weapons they are. Saunders was an afterthought in Arinas offense like TEs so often are. Graham, Finley, Gronk, et al, are pretty much household names now in the football world. If any of them played for the Steelers, nobody but Steelers fan would have any idea who they were. Conversely, if Saunders was in one of those other situations, he'd be shining just like those dudes.

So, to wrap it up. Don't let Arians inability to properly use the tools at his disposal fool you into believing that those tools are faulty. You can give two men a hammer, a saw and some wood. One man may build you a house, and the other may just build you a pile of random pieces of wood cut and nailed together. Is that on the tools or the carpenter?


Rockon

IMO, oyur evaluation of the WRs and RBs is through the Steeler colored glasses I alluded to in my post. Sanders can't stay healthy, Wallace played half a season, Cotchery caught a few balls, only AB was consistent for the entire year.

Running back is being evaluated on draft position rather tan production, Mendy managed under 1000 yards this year, missed a year with a shoulder injury and showed flashes last year.

Heath is a great all around tight end, but his blocking is being negated by the fact that the Steelers don't run the ball like they used to and he isn't a pass catcher like Gronk, Graham, et al.

The offensive line is in shambles right now due to injury and lack of NFL talent.

Ben is one of the best.

Arians may not be the answer, but he wasn't nearly the problem many make hinm out to be. An upgrade in offensive talent will go a long way to making an OC look very good.

Arians is gone and I'm good with it, I would have been good with him returning. We'll see what happens next year if there isn't an upgrade in talent or improvement in what the Steelers have. We'll just agree to disagree about Arians' role in an inconsistent offense.

Pappy


Fair enough, and I'll leave you with this. Belichick and Brady score 30 ppg in their sleep with the likes of BenJarvis Green-Ellis at RB, a "too small white Dolphins castoff" in Wes Welker and bunch of other "guys" at WR. A 2nd and 4th round pick in their second year at TE. It's not like people thought Rob Gronkowski was gonna be what he is when they took him. And 4 different offensive coordinators without missing a beat. A lot of that is Tom Brady, but a lot is also the system in place. It puts players in position to maximze their talents. If you have an OC that can do that with the Steelers, I think you'll find some of(not all, still need upgrades at G) our O-line problems go away. And I think the "sky is the limit" you'll see this offense really "reach new heights".

Rockon

feltdizz
01-22-2012, 03:32 PM
The teams at the bottom get the highest picks so they will have better players at the skill positions IMO. You have to look at the teams who consistently draft in the 20 and up range every year. We tend to draft picks who "fall" to us vs making a move or getting "That guy!" coming out of college.

We never get a Calvin Johnson but we turned Wallace into that type of player production wise... add Brown, Sanders (when healthy)... to that list and you have guys who were drafted later getting better production then expected and somehow fans turn this into "weapons-a-plenty"


It's not always about where they're drafted. That's just so there's some order to the selection process. It's about what they do once they get on the field. I guarantee you if they did a re-draft with all hindsight knowledge in place, Mike Wallace doesn't make it to the third round. And somehow, I doubt Brady would've lasted until the sixth round.

History is littered with first-round busts, late-round hall-of-famers and undrafted SB MVPs. The Steelers have a roster that currently consists of several players who have outplayed their draft slot. Cummulatively they form what a great deal of people on football consider "weapons-a-plenty".

Question is, if you watch Steelers football games, why can't you see that? Are you also being duped by the mediocre results of Arians genius?

Rockon

not being duped at all...

we tend to draft players who outplay their draft slot (except Mendenhall).... but it sounds like once they do that fans expect them to keep rising. Most of the skill positions we have are playing above expectations but we expect them to do it week in and week out?

Ghost
01-22-2012, 03:37 PM
Teams ahead of the Steelers - Jets, Bills, Ravens, Raiders, Bears, Bengals, Vikings, Dolphins, Eagles. I don't think any of these teams had more talent on offense and some had considerably less.

You might despise him, but Harbaugh out in San Fran is showing what good coaching can really do. It does matter. And Arians simply did not elevate the play of the O in any way. Add to that the fact that as the O-coordinator, NO ONE on the team should be more aware of the limitations of the line and working to operate effectively within those confines.

feltdizz
01-22-2012, 03:37 PM
All I hear is that todays offenses are not run oriented, it's a passing league, the offenses are setup to score points, the defenses have their hands tied. I get it that the era of running the ball is over. If you want to win in this league you better put up points.
How many games have you watched that, the team that has the ball last, usually wins ?

I also get that Arians doesn't want a fullback, he wants to air it out.

Tomlin, the Steelers front office gave Ben and Arians all that they needed to accomplish all of the above and still, they only ranked 21 in offense. It was time for a change and it was time for a change before too. If you have a QB questioning his coaches play calls then, why have a OC ?
Ben and Arians were too buddy buddy to me. Sure Ben is upset that Arians is gone, Ben may have lost some power or control. I always said, " Ben likes arians because Ben, runs Arians. "
Not saying Ben couldn't have some positive input but, allow the coaches to coach and the players to play. I wonder if this was some of the reason Ben and Wiz didn't see eye to eye ?

Just to continue the discussion about the Steeler offense and Bruce Arians I'd like to comment about the highlighted and enlarged statement. What tools did the FO and Tomlin give Ben and Arians?

The offensive line is a rag tag bunch with only one player that could play on a team in the top third of the NFL (Pouncey). We may like the others (except Kemo, of course), but they are average offensive lineman by and large. they each will have games where they dominate, but from a consistency standpoint they are not above the line. The receivers are young and improving, but they wouldn't be playing or limited playing time on teams in the top third of the league. Ben is an elite quarterback and really the only player of such status on the offense. The running backs are the same as the WRs, nothing horrible, but nothing top notch either (Mendy is still potential in my opinion).

Why we expect Arians to make lemonade out of these oranges and apples is beyond me. Without Steeler colored glasses on I think we see that the offense isn't all that and a bag of chips and maybe, Ben and Arians got more out of the group than their talent level dictates.

Just my opinion...

Pappy

Yo Pap, my man. I'm not sure what you're smoking, but hit me with a PM so we can discuss where I might acquire some.

Nah, but seriously, you are letting Arians failure to properly utilize the tools at his disposal to confuse you into mistaking average production for average talent. There are very skilled players all across this offense...

QB-no need to elaborate as you've acknowledged that he is elite. But, for all the success he's had, many believe there was a lot more left on the field because Arians didn't maximize the offense.

RB-for all the criticism Rashard Mendenhall gets, the kid is actually a pretty good back. Again, BA failed to maximize the kids' talents and instead did things that exposed his weaknesses. No FB, long developing, telegraphed runs to the right, one back RUTFM.
RM has pretty good hands, but you hardly ever see him on swing passes out the backfield. What about REAL RB screens? RM should be getting a minimum of 30-35 catches out of the backfield a season.

WR-this is where you are really bugging out. Do you know what a guy like Sean Payton, or Mike McCarthy, or hell Chan Gailey would do with a QB like Ben weapons like Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders? Yes all young, but all very talented, and that's not even counting Jerrico Cotchery. Here's a hint, it wouldn't be bubble screen city, and you bet your a$$ they'd score more than 20 ppg.

TE-Heath Miller is 1st rd. pick. He has never been fully utilized the way the Eagles use a Celek, or Witten with the Cowboys, or Heap when he was with the Ravens. But, he is/was every bit as talented. Whenever the Steelers did use him, they were very successful. Heath should've easily averaged 20-30 more catches per season than he did under Arians. But, instead he was wasted. Often reduced to a hood ornament at times.
And then there's Wes Saunders. He had some flashes in the few limited opportunities he was given, but again, we didn't see enough of him. Guys like Jimmy Graham this year, the kid from KC last year(Moeaki?), Finley before he was hurt last year, Gronkowski, Hernandez, the list goes on. These are the new breed of TE. Other teams are using for the weapons they are. Saunders was an afterthought in Arinas offense like TEs so often are. Graham, Finley, Gronk, et al, are pretty much household names now in the football world. If any of them played for the Steelers, nobody but Steelers fan would have any idea who they were. Conversely, if Saunders was in one of those other situations, he'd be shining just like those dudes.

So, to wrap it up. Don't let Arians inability to properly use the tools at his disposal fool you into believing that those tools are faulty. You can give two men a hammer, a saw and some wood. One man may build you a house, and the other may just build you a pile of random pieces of wood cut and nailed together. Is that on the tools or the carpenter?


Rockon

IMO, oyur evaluation of the WRs and RBs is through the Steeler colored glasses I alluded to in my post. Sanders can't stay healthy, Wallace played half a season, Cotchery caught a few balls, only AB was consistent for the entire year.

Running back is being evaluated on draft position rather tan production, Mendy managed under 1000 yards this year, missed a year with a shoulder injury and showed flashes last year.

Heath is a great all around tight end, but his blocking is being negated by the fact that the Steelers don't run the ball like they used to and he isn't a pass catcher like Gronk, Graham, et al.

The offensive line is in shambles right now due to injury and lack of NFL talent.

Ben is one of the best.

Arians may not be the answer, but he wasn't nearly the problem many make hinm out to be. An upgrade in offensive talent will go a long way to making an OC look very good.

Arians is gone and I'm good with it, I would have been good with him returning. We'll see what happens next year if there isn't an upgrade in talent or improvement in what the Steelers have. We'll just agree to disagree about Arians' role in an inconsistent offense.

Pappy


Fair enough, and I'll leave you with this. Belichick and Brady score 30 ppg in their sleep with the likes of BenJarvis Green-Ellis at RB, a "too small white Dolphins castoff" in Wes Welker and bunch of other "guys" at WR. A 2nd and 4th round pick in their second year at TE. It's not like people thought Rob Gronkowski was gonna be what he is when they took him. And 4 different offensive coordinators without missing a beat. A lot of that is Tom Brady, but a lot is also the system in place. It puts players in position to maximze their talents. If you have an OC that can do that with the Steelers, I think you'll find some of(not all, still need upgrades at G) our O-line problems go away. And I think the "sky is the limit" you'll see this offense really "reach new heights".

Rockon

all true.... and the Pats have a great system that has a ton of underneath stuff that keeps the QB clean most games...

When we take what's there we have similar success. The question we all want to see answered is whether it was BA or Ben who was responsible for abandoning the take what they give philosophy.

History tells me it's Ben... he thrives in sandlot football and it's hard to get a QB to change when he's been so successful doing it his way.

feltdizz
01-22-2012, 03:43 PM
Teams ahead of the Steelers - Jets, Bills, Ravens, Raiders, Bears, Bengals, Vikings, Dolphins, Eagles. I don't think any of these teams had more talent on offense and some had considerably less.

You might despise him, but Harbaugh out in San Fran is showing what good coaching can really do. It does matter. And Arians simply did not elevate the play of the O in any way. Add to that the fact that as the O-coordinator, NO ONE on the team should be more aware of the limitations of the line and working to operate effectively within those confines.


Harbaugh has studs on D and they have a ton of top 10 draft talent. I think we need to see them follow up on this before we crown them. We said the same thing about Whiz and he hasn't been able to keep it up.

I bet every team on that list had more TO's on D then we had this year. Not trying to blame the D but we had an insanely low number of short fields this year.

rockonsteel
01-22-2012, 03:44 PM
The teams at the bottom get the highest picks so they will have better players at the skill positions IMO. You have to look at the teams who consistently draft in the 20 and up range every year. We tend to draft picks who "fall" to us vs making a move or getting "That guy!" coming out of college.

We never get a Calvin Johnson but we turned Wallace into that type of player production wise... add Brown, Sanders (when healthy)... to that list and you have guys who were drafted later getting better production then expected and somehow fans turn this into "weapons-a-plenty"


It's not always about where they're drafted. That's just so there's some order to the selection process. It's about what they do once they get on the field. I guarantee you if they did a re-draft with all hindsight knowledge in place, Mike Wallace doesn't make it to the third round. And somehow, I doubt Brady would've lasted until the sixth round.

History is littered with first-round busts, late-round hall-of-famers and undrafted SB MVPs. The Steelers have a roster that currently consists of several players who have outplayed their draft slot. Cummulatively they form what a great deal of people on football consider "weapons-a-plenty".

Question is, if you watch Steelers football games, why can't you see that? Are you also being duped by the mediocre results of Arians genius?

Rockon

not being duped at all...

we tend to draft players who outplay their draft slot (except Mendenhall).... but it sounds like once they do that fans expect them to keep rising. Most of the skill positions we have are playing above expectations but we expect them to do it week in and week out?


Once they do, we fans expect the coaches to devise schemes and call plays that take advantage of the particular skillset said player is displaying and to squeeze everything you can out of that talent. Not something Arians did very well, IMO, and that of many others including, apparently one Mr. Rooney.

Rockon

papillon
01-22-2012, 03:45 PM
All I hear is that todays offenses are not run oriented, it's a passing league, the offenses are setup to score points, the defenses have their hands tied. I get it that the era of running the ball is over. If you want to win in this league you better put up points.
How many games have you watched that, the team that has the ball last, usually wins ?

I also get that Arians doesn't want a fullback, he wants to air it out.

Tomlin, the Steelers front office gave Ben and Arians all that they needed to accomplish all of the above and still, they only ranked 21 in offense. It was time for a change and it was time for a change before too. If you have a QB questioning his coaches play calls then, why have a OC ?
Ben and Arians were too buddy buddy to me. Sure Ben is upset that Arians is gone, Ben may have lost some power or control. I always said, " Ben likes arians because Ben, runs Arians. "
Not saying Ben couldn't have some positive input but, allow the coaches to coach and the players to play. I wonder if this was some of the reason Ben and Wiz didn't see eye to eye ?

Just to continue the discussion about the Steeler offense and Bruce Arians I'd like to comment about the highlighted and enlarged statement. What tools did the FO and Tomlin give Ben and Arians?

The offensive line is a rag tag bunch with only one player that could play on a team in the top third of the NFL (Pouncey). We may like the others (except Kemo, of course), but they are average offensive lineman by and large. they each will have games where they dominate, but from a consistency standpoint they are not above the line. The receivers are young and improving, but they wouldn't be playing or limited playing time on teams in the top third of the league. Ben is an elite quarterback and really the only player of such status on the offense. The running backs are the same as the WRs, nothing horrible, but nothing top notch either (Mendy is still potential in my opinion).

Why we expect Arians to make lemonade out of these oranges and apples is beyond me. Without Steeler colored glasses on I think we see that the offense isn't all that and a bag of chips and maybe, Ben and Arians got more out of the group than their talent level dictates.

Just my opinion...

Pappy

Yo Pap, my man. I'm not sure what you're smoking, but hit me with a PM so we can discuss where I might acquire some.

Nah, but seriously, you are letting Arians failure to properly utilize the tools at his disposal to confuse you into mistaking average production for average talent. There are very skilled players all across this offense...

QB-no need to elaborate as you've acknowledged that he is elite. But, for all the success he's had, many believe there was a lot more left on the field because Arians didn't maximize the offense.

RB-for all the criticism Rashard Mendenhall gets, the kid is actually a pretty good back. Again, BA failed to maximize the kids' talents and instead did things that exposed his weaknesses. No FB, long developing, telegraphed runs to the right, one back RUTFM.
RM has pretty good hands, but you hardly ever see him on swing passes out the backfield. What about REAL RB screens? RM should be getting a minimum of 30-35 catches out of the backfield a season.

WR-this is where you are really bugging out. Do you know what a guy like Sean Payton, or Mike McCarthy, or hell Chan Gailey would do with a QB like Ben weapons like Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders? Yes all young, but all very talented, and that's not even counting Jerrico Cotchery. Here's a hint, it wouldn't be bubble screen city, and you bet your a$$ they'd score more than 20 ppg.

TE-Heath Miller is 1st rd. pick. He has never been fully utilized the way the Eagles use a Celek, or Witten with the Cowboys, or Heap when he was with the Ravens. But, he is/was every bit as talented. Whenever the Steelers did use him, they were very successful. Heath should've easily averaged 20-30 more catches per season than he did under Arians. But, instead he was wasted. Often reduced to a hood ornament at times.
And then there's Wes Saunders. He had some flashes in the few limited opportunities he was given, but again, we didn't see enough of him. Guys like Jimmy Graham this year, the kid from KC last year(Moeaki?), Finley before he was hurt last year, Gronkowski, Hernandez, the list goes on. These are the new breed of TE. Other teams are using for the weapons they are. Saunders was an afterthought in Arinas offense like TEs so often are. Graham, Finley, Gronk, et al, are pretty much household names now in the football world. If any of them played for the Steelers, nobody but Steelers fan would have any idea who they were. Conversely, if Saunders was in one of those other situations, he'd be shining just like those dudes.

So, to wrap it up. Don't let Arians inability to properly use the tools at his disposal fool you into believing that those tools are faulty. You can give two men a hammer, a saw and some wood. One man may build you a house, and the other may just build you a pile of random pieces of wood cut and nailed together. Is that on the tools or the carpenter?


Rockon

IMO, oyur evaluation of the WRs and RBs is through the Steeler colored glasses I alluded to in my post. Sanders can't stay healthy, Wallace played half a season, Cotchery caught a few balls, only AB was consistent for the entire year.

Running back is being evaluated on draft position rather tan production, Mendy managed under 1000 yards this year, missed a year with a shoulder injury and showed flashes last year.

Heath is a great all around tight end, but his blocking is being negated by the fact that the Steelers don't run the ball like they used to and he isn't a pass catcher like Gronk, Graham, et al.

The offensive line is in shambles right now due to injury and lack of NFL talent.

Ben is one of the best.

Arians may not be the answer, but he wasn't nearly the problem many make hinm out to be. An upgrade in offensive talent will go a long way to making an OC look very good.

Arians is gone and I'm good with it, I would have been good with him returning. We'll see what happens next year if there isn't an upgrade in talent or improvement in what the Steelers have. We'll just agree to disagree about Arians' role in an inconsistent offense.

Pappy


Fair enough, and I'll leave you with this. Belichick and Brady score 30 ppg in their sleep with the likes of BenJarvis Green-Ellis at RB, a "too small white Dolphins castoff" in Wes Welker and bunch of other "guys" at WR. A 2nd and 4th round pick in their second year at TE. It's not like people thought Rob Gronkowski was gonna be what he is when they took him. And 4 different offensive coordinators without missing a beat. A lot of that is Tom Brady, but a lot is also the system in place. It puts players in position to maximze their talents. If you have an OC that can do that with the Steelers, I think you'll find some of(not all, still need upgrades at G) our O-line problems go away. And I think the "sky is the limit" you'll see this offense really "reach new heights".

Rockon

Both New England guards are in the Pro-Bowl or were elected and Matt Light is a pretty good tackle. The Steelers only offensive lineman that is Pro-Bowl worthy and was elected can't stay healthy. Tom Brady and the system help a lot, but having an offensive line that keeps defensive linemen off your quarterback helps even more.

It will be interesting to see if it's the chicken or the egg with the Steeler offense. Is the coaching poor and the players good or vice versa. This should be one of the more excitnig off seasons in years for the Steelers.

Pappy

williar
01-22-2012, 03:49 PM
All I hear is that todays offenses are not run oriented, it's a passing league, the offenses are setup to score points, the defenses have their hands tied. I get it that the era of running the ball is over. If you want to win in this league you better put up points.
How many games have you watched that, the team that has the ball last, usually wins ?

I also get that Arians doesn't want a fullback, he wants to air it out.

Tomlin, the Steelers front office gave Ben and Arians all that they needed to accomplish all of the above and still, they only ranked 21 in offense. It was time for a change and it was time for a change before too. If you have a QB questioning his coaches play calls then, why have a OC ?
Ben and Arians were too buddy buddy to me. Sure Ben is upset that Arians is gone, Ben may have lost some power or control. I always said, " Ben likes arians because Ben, runs Arians. "
Not saying Ben couldn't have some positive input but, allow the coaches to coach and the players to play. I wonder if this was some of the reason Ben and Wiz didn't see eye to eye ?

Just to continue the discussion about the Steeler offense and Bruce Arians I'd like to comment about the highlighted and enlarged statement. What tools did the FO and Tomlin give Ben and Arians?

The offensive line is a rag tag bunch with only one player that could play on a team in the top third of the NFL (Pouncey). We may like the others (except Kemo, of course), but they are average offensive lineman by and large. they each will have games where they dominate, but from a consistency standpoint they are not above the line. The receivers are young and improving, but they wouldn't be playing or limited playing time on teams in the top third of the league. Ben is an elite quarterback and really the only player of such status on the offense. The running backs are the same as the WRs, nothing horrible, but nothing top notch either (Mendy is still potential in my opinion).

Why we expect Arians to make lemonade out of these oranges and apples is beyond me. Without Steeler colored glasses on I think we see that the offense isn't all that and a bag of chips and maybe, Ben and Arians got more out of the group than their talent level dictates.

Just my opinion...

Pappy

Yo Pap, my man. I'm not sure what you're smoking, but hit me with a PM so we can discuss where I might acquire some.

Nah, but seriously, you are letting Arians failure to properly utilize the tools at his disposal to confuse you into mistaking average production for average talent. There are very skilled players all across this offense...

QB-no need to elaborate as you've acknowledged that he is elite. But, for all the success he's had, many believe there was a lot more left on the field because Arians didn't maximize the offense.

RB-for all the criticism Rashard Mendenhall gets, the kid is actually a pretty good back. Again, BA failed to maximize the kids' talents and instead did things that exposed his weaknesses. No FB, long developing, telegraphed runs to the right, one back RUTFM.
RM has pretty good hands, but you hardly ever see him on swing passes out the backfield. What about REAL RB screens? RM should be getting a minimum of 30-35 catches out of the backfield a season.

WR-this is where you are really bugging out. Do you know what a guy like Sean Payton, or Mike McCarthy, or hell Chan Gailey would do with a QB like Ben weapons like Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders? Yes all young, but all very talented, and that's not even counting Jerrico Cotchery. Here's a hint, it wouldn't be bubble screen city, and you bet your a$$ they'd score more than 20 ppg.

TE-Heath Miller is 1st rd. pick. He has never been fully utilized the way the Eagles use a Celek, or Witten with the Cowboys, or Heap when he was with the Ravens. But, he is/was every bit as talented. Whenever the Steelers did use him, they were very successful. Heath should've easily averaged 20-30 more catches per season than he did under Arians. But, instead he was wasted. Often reduced to a hood ornament at times.
And then there's Wes Saunders. He had some flashes in the few limited opportunities he was given, but again, we didn't see enough of him. Guys like Jimmy Graham this year, the kid from KC last year(Moeaki?), Finley before he was hurt last year, Gronkowski, Hernandez, the list goes on. These are the new breed of TE. Other teams are using for the weapons they are. Saunders was an afterthought in Arinas offense like TEs so often are. Graham, Finley, Gronk, et al, are pretty much household names now in the football world. If any of them played for the Steelers, nobody but Steelers fan would have any idea who they were. Conversely, if Saunders was in one of those other situations, he'd be shining just like those dudes.

So, to wrap it up. Don't let Arians inability to properly use the tools at his disposal fool you into believing that those tools are faulty. You can give two men a hammer, a saw and some wood. One man may build you a house, and the other may just build you a pile of random pieces of wood cut and nailed together. Is that on the tools or the carpenter?


Rockon

:Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap

Ghost
01-22-2012, 04:02 PM
Teams ahead of the Steelers - Jets, Bills, Ravens, Raiders, Bears, Bengals, Vikings, Dolphins, Eagles. I don't think any of these teams had more talent on offense and some had considerably less.

You might despise him, but Harbaugh out in San Fran is showing what good coaching can really do. It does matter. And Arians simply did not elevate the play of the O in any way. Add to that the fact that as the O-coordinator, NO ONE on the team should be more aware of the limitations of the line and working to operate effectively within those confines.


Harbaugh has studs on D and they have a ton of top 10 draft talent. I think we need to see them follow up on this before we crown them. We said the same thing about Whiz and he hasn't been able to keep it up.

I bet every team on that list had more TO's on D then we had this year. Not trying to blame the D but we had an insanely low number of short fields this year.

Harbaugh took them from 6-10 to 13-3 with a QB the entire league thought was a huge bust. He just won a shoot out with the Saints and is playing in the NFC Championship. He's done more coaching in 1 season than Arian's enitre Steelers career.

And doesn't change what I said - Arians never elevated the play of the O. I don't beleive he inspired greatness.

feltdizz
01-22-2012, 04:32 PM
Teams ahead of the Steelers - Jets, Bills, Ravens, Raiders, Bears, Bengals, Vikings, Dolphins, Eagles. I don't think any of these teams had more talent on offense and some had considerably less.

You might despise him, but Harbaugh out in San Fran is showing what good coaching can really do. It does matter. And Arians simply did not elevate the play of the O in any way. Add to that the fact that as the O-coordinator, NO ONE on the team should be more aware of the limitations of the line and working to operate effectively within those confines.


Harbaugh has studs on D and they have a ton of top 10 draft talent. I think we need to see them follow up on this before we crown them. We said the same thing about Whiz and he hasn't been able to keep it up.

I bet every team on that list had more TO's on D then we had this year. Not trying to blame the D but we had an insanely low number of short fields this year.

Harbaugh took them from 6-10 to 13-3 with a QB the entire league thought was a huge bust. He just won a shoot out with the Saints and is playing in the NFC Championship. He's done more coaching in 1 season than Arian's enitre Steelers career.

And doesn't change what I said - Arians never elevated the play of the O. I don't beleive he inspired greatness.

The 49ers D had 5 TO's...

Ghost
01-22-2012, 05:52 PM
Teams ahead of the Steelers - Jets, Bills, Ravens, Raiders, Bears, Bengals, Vikings, Dolphins, Eagles. I don't think any of these teams had more talent on offense and some had considerably less.

You might despise him, but Harbaugh out in San Fran is showing what good coaching can really do. It does matter. And Arians simply did not elevate the play of the O in any way. Add to that the fact that as the O-coordinator, NO ONE on the team should be more aware of the limitations of the line and working to operate effectively within those confines.


Harbaugh has studs on D and they have a ton of top 10 draft talent. I think we need to see them follow up on this before we crown them. We said the same thing about Whiz and he hasn't been able to keep it up.

I bet every team on that list had more TO's on D then we had this year. Not trying to blame the D but we had an insanely low number of short fields this year.

Harbaugh took them from 6-10 to 13-3 with a QB the entire league thought was a huge bust. He just won a shoot out with the Saints and is playing in the NFC Championship. He's done more coaching in 1 season than Arian's enitre Steelers career.

And doesn't change what I said - Arians never elevated the play of the O. I don't beleive he inspired greatness.

The 49ers D had 5 TO's...

Are you trying to be a d!ck or do you honestly believe coaching had nothing to do with thier turn around this year? What are you arguing with me about? You think BA coached up the O?

SteelAbility
01-22-2012, 08:15 PM
No worries. Once the offense starts to be much more effective, Ben's anxiety over BA being gone will go away.

fezziwig
01-22-2012, 08:27 PM
What coach does have all number one and two draft picks starting on his squad ? There are plenty of teams that have make shift areas we, see ours each week so we tend to harp on it.

Bens a number one pick, Pouncey, Miller, Mendy,. Plaxico, Holmes were also number one picks. The Steelers don't ignore the offense.
The defense has Heyward, Hood, Timmons at number one and pretty young at that without being much history to our teams success.

If every coach relied upon having pro bowl players to win then, any average Joe could have big success.

Arians either didn't know how to get around tough spots or didn't care.
If the Steelers make Randy or anyone from within Bens comfort zone the OC expect more of the same...bad coaching.

feltdizz
01-22-2012, 08:39 PM
Teams ahead of the Steelers - Jets, Bills, Ravens, Raiders, Bears, Bengals, Vikings, Dolphins, Eagles. I don't think any of these teams had more talent on offense and some had considerably less.

You might despise him, but Harbaugh out in San Fran is showing what good coaching can really do. It does matter. And Arians simply did not elevate the play of the O in any way. Add to that the fact that as the O-coordinator, NO ONE on the team should be more aware of the limitations of the line and working to operate effectively within those confines.


Harbaugh has studs on D and they have a ton of top 10 draft talent. I think we need to see them follow up on this before we crown them. We said the same thing about Whiz and he hasn't been able to keep it up.

I bet every team on that list had more TO's on D then we had this year. Not trying to blame the D but we had an insanely low number of short fields this year.

Harbaugh took them from 6-10 to 13-3 with a QB the entire league thought was a huge bust. He just won a shoot out with the Saints and is playing in the NFC Championship. He's done more coaching in 1 season than Arian's enitre Steelers career.

And doesn't change what I said - Arians never elevated the play of the O. I don't beleive he inspired greatness.

The 49ers D had 5 TO's...

Are you trying to be a d!ck or do you honestly believe coaching had nothing to do with thier turn around this year? What are you arguing with me about? You think BA coached up the O?
Wow. Why so angr? I simply said let's see if the 49ers sustain their success and you pointed out the Saints shootout.

I use facts that show 5 TO's and you accuse me of being a d@ck?

WTF is wrong with you? You act like this is the first time a guy has made run in his first year as a HC. I could see if the 49ers won a shootout without the D creating 5 more opportunities but damn....

All of a sudden every feel good story is proof the Steelers suck.

feltdizz
01-22-2012, 08:46 PM
What coach does have all number one and two draft picks starting on his squad ? There are plenty of teams that have make shift areas we, see ours each week so we tend to harp on it.

Bens a number one pick, Pouncey, Miller, Mendy,. Plaxico, Holmes were also number one picks. The Steelers don't ignore the offense.
The defense has Heyward, Hood, Timmons at number one and pretty young at that without being much history to our teams success.

If every coach relied upon having pro bowl players to win then, any average Joe could have big success.

Arians either didn't know how to get around tough spots or didn't care.
If the Steelers make Randy or anyone from within Bens comfort zone the OC expect more of the same...bad coaching.

I agree but here is my problem with all the complaining.

We reached 2 SB's in the last 5 years. What the hell do you expect from the new OC? 3 SB's in the next 4 years with top 10 offenses?

The expectations for the new OC are so high I don't see it happening the way others do.

NJ-STEELER
01-22-2012, 08:48 PM
gronkowski was a high 2nd round pick that was injured in his senior season.

had he not be injured he very well could have gone in the mid first. he has that type of talent.

heath miller's skill set can be found later in the draft. he isnt even as athletic as witten (3rd rounder). he's one of the best all around TEs but he's not the threat in the passing game these 'new' TEs are


but, i agree the pats system is better. better OC thru the years, etc... i just wonder what some old steeler fans would say if they came out and passed the way NE's offense does

last but not least, dont forget before pouncey was drafted the steelers didnt draft an OL in the top 2 rounds since kendall simmons... nearly a 10 year span. thats something those teams have a big advantage over us now and in the recent past

fezziwig
01-22-2012, 08:51 PM
What coach does have all number one and two draft picks starting on his squad ? There are plenty of teams that have make shift areas we, see ours each week so we tend to harp on it.

Bens a number one pick, Pouncey, Miller, Mendy,. Plaxico, Holmes were also number one picks. The Steelers don't ignore the offense.
The defense has Heyward, Hood, Timmons at number one and pretty young at that without being much history to our teams success.

If every coach relied upon having pro bowl players to win then, any average Joe could have big success.

Arians either didn't know how to get around tough spots or didn't care.
If the Steelers make Randy or anyone from within Bens comfort zone the OC expect more of the same...bad coaching.

I agree but here is my problem with all the complaining.

We reached 2 SB's in the last 5 years. What the hell do you expect from the new OC? 3 SB's in the next 4 years with top 10 offenses?

The expectations for the new OC are so high I don't see it happening the way others do.


We will never know. Our defense has gotten older, Hines has gotten older and so has Ben. Maybe for Ben it's a good thing but for the new OC he won't have the luxury of having such a great defense as Wiz and Arians had.
Our new OC might just have to be successful without record making defenses. Patriots seemed to have accomplished more without a good defense this season.
I do believe Arians had the better players on offense than Wiz had.

williar
01-22-2012, 08:54 PM
No one can convince me that we don't have better weapons than the patriots. I mean, their TE's are good but Danny Woodhead, Julian Edelman, BenJarvis, Deion Branch, Wes Welker? I actually felt sorry for Brady. Somehow they still make to the SB. That is why I respect Tom Brady, dude can make chicken salad out of chicken *ish everytime.

NJ-STEELER
01-22-2012, 08:58 PM
what was his stat line today?

imagine if that was ben...LOL

all the trolls would be out

feltdizz
01-22-2012, 09:08 PM
I know the names don't jump out at you but the Pats have a system and they stick to it. Most passes are 5 to 8 yard... Maybe less...

Its all about the run after the catch with the Pats.

I'm mad about today because it gives a little meat to the pass happy O but IMO old school football is still alive.

Solid D, ball control offense will keep you in most games. Look at the Broncos. Horrible passing team (besides our game) but able to stay in games with the run.

williar
01-22-2012, 09:24 PM
I know the names don't jump out at you but the Pats have a system and they stick to it. Most passes are 5 to 8 yard... Maybe less...

Its all about the run after the catch with the Pats.

I'm mad about today because it gives a little meat to the pass happy O but IMO old school football is still alive.

Solid D, ball control offense will keep you in most games. Look at the Broncos. Horrible passing team (besides our game) but able to stay in games with the run.

You know, our offense looked really good when we played that style of offense against, guess who? The patriots... That was probably our best game of the season... What happen. I guess our QB wasn't having enough fun running around getting sacked and getting injured. So he turned back to doing what he does best, holding the ball and getting sacked and eventually he got injured. Result, we were watching the BAL vs NE.

DukieBoy
01-22-2012, 10:55 PM
I know the names don't jump out at you but the Pats have a system and they stick to it. Most passes are 5 to 8 yard... Maybe less...

Its all about the run after the catch with the Pats.

I'm mad about today because it gives a little meat to the pass happy O but IMO old school football is still alive.

Solid D, ball control offense will keep you in most games. Look at the Broncos. Horrible passing team (besides our game) but able to stay in games with the run.

You know, our offense looked really good when we played that style of offense against, guess who? The patriots... That was probably our best game of the season... What happen. I guess our QB wasn't having enough fun running around getting sacked and getting injured. So he turned back to doing what he does best, holding the ball and getting sacked and eventually he got injured. Result, we were watching the BAL vs NE.


:Agree
And successful as it was (a win, no injury to our $QB), it puzzled me that we did not see more of that style in other games. To me, that is on Ariens and Ben. And on Tomlin for not taking more charge.

SteelTorch
01-23-2012, 12:56 AM
What coach does have all number one and two draft picks starting on his squad ? There are plenty of teams that have make shift areas we, see ours each week so we tend to harp on it.

Bens a number one pick, Pouncey, Miller, Mendy,. Plaxico, Holmes were also number one picks. The Steelers don't ignore the offense.
The defense has Heyward, Hood, Timmons at number one and pretty young at that without being much history to our teams success.

If every coach relied upon having pro bowl players to win then, any average Joe could have big success.

Arians either didn't know how to get around tough spots or didn't care.
If the Steelers make Randy or anyone from within Bens comfort zone the OC expect more of the same...bad coaching.

I agree but here is my problem with all the complaining.

We reached 2 SB's in the last 5 years. What the hell do you expect from the new OC? 3 SB's in the next 4 years with top 10 offenses?

The expectations for the new OC are so high I don't see it happening the way others do.
We expect an offense that performs up to its capability. We have never seen that with Arians. Simple. He's a terrible OC, and obviously the FO agrees, otherwise he'd still be with the team.


On a side note, while I love Ben as a football player, I think he wants an OC that's going to kiss up to him, be buddy-buddey with him, and let him do whatever he wants. Which is exactly what Arians did. We need an OC that's going to make Ben a better player and help this offense reach its true potential. BA was not that guy.

SS Laser
01-23-2012, 01:54 AM
Arians biggest fault was the redzone offense. But along with that it is Bens biggest fault.

These two were 2 peas in a pod. If the new OC is better then Arians it will be because Ben also gets better. Or changes his approch alittle.

If the new OC can work the redzone better I will be very happy. It will show in the stats I am sure.

Some of you guys have me scared the offense could get worse without Arians. :wft

Chadman
01-23-2012, 05:50 AM
An Arians offense has repeatedly put up big yardage numbers for the Steelers, utilizing it's greatest strength- Ben Roethlisberger.

Now, there is no debate that the offense did not score enough in the RZ.

And you are right, Arians was not the greatest at adjusting his gameplan.

And there were some play calls that left us scratching the noggin.

But if the reports are right, and the Steelers removed Arians in order to bring back "blue collar offense", the Steelers may as well hire Marty Schottenheimer as the OC.

Because that's what we will be reverting to.

Taking the ball out of our star QB's hands, and putting it in Mendenhall's.

Who is happy with that Offensive shift?

feltdizz
01-23-2012, 07:57 AM
Arians biggest fault was the redzone offense. But along with that it is Bens biggest fault.

These two were 2 peas in a pod. If the new OC is better then Arians it will be because Ben also gets better. Or changes his approch alittle.

If the new OC can work the redzone better I will be very happy. It will show in the stats I am sure.

Some of you guys have me scared the offense could get worse without Arians. :wft

It's a possibility but most think there is no way we can get any worse because Arians sucked.

The next OC has to improve scoring, RZ efficiency and also win a SB. It's possible but looking back at the last 5 years I think the margin for improvement is so slim it will be hard to do given the unrealistic expectations some have.

Look at the offenses yesterday. Did any of them wow you or put up production that made you envy who they are as an offense?

fezziwig
01-23-2012, 09:30 AM
Arians biggest fault was the redzone offense. But along with that it is Bens biggest fault.

These two were 2 peas in a pod. If the new OC is better then Arians it will be because Ben also gets better. Or changes his approch alittle.

If the new OC can work the redzone better I will be very happy. It will show in the stats I am sure.

Some of you guys have me scared the offense could get worse without Arians. :wft

It's a possibility but most think there is no way we can get any worse because Arians sucked.

The next OC has to improve scoring, RZ efficiency and also win a SB. It's possible but looking back at the last 5 years I think the margin for improvement is so slim it will be hard to do given the unrealistic expectations some have.

Look at the offenses yesterday. Did any of them wow you or put up production that made you envy who they are as an offense?


No, they didn't wow me at all but, they took what the defense allowed. The Ravens were setup for the passing game so what did the Cheats do ? They ran the ball.
Arians would have gone for broke like he always does whether it works or not.
I seen game adjustments going on with those two OC......How unlike Arians.

feltdizz
01-23-2012, 09:49 AM
2nd and 1, 3rd and 1.... with a timeout and you don't give your best player the ball? That was horrible coaching by Cam.

The Pats run out of passing sets a lot... and I think the Pats offensive philosophy with Brady and Billicheat is top notch but I wasn't impressed with their game plan or execution yesterday. 3 FG's... 2 INT's.. struggling to punch it in from the RZ.

If Ben had Brady's stats we would be talking about how awful the game plan was IMO.

Ghost
01-23-2012, 11:12 AM
Feltdizz - Because you were arguing just for the sake of arguing. Being obtuse. No one mentioned "crowning" them but you. Harbaugh took a 6-10 team (8-8 the year before) and turned them into winners (mostly the same team that sucked the year before). They scored 17 points in the 4th Q against the Saints. Harbaugh is being considered for Coach of the year and you just ignore it. You are the only person who doesn't think he had even a tiny bearing on their success this year - and that was my only point - coaching matters and Arians has done nothing to coach up the O. I never stated the Steelers suck, nor do I believe it. But I do believe they could improve an offense that does have some weapons. And the Steelers ownership agrees.

So yes, I think you are purposefuly being unpleasant when you continue to mindlessly harp on something that was a minor example of the bigger picture. I could have used other teams where coaching made a difference. Forget the damn 49'ers and try to focus on the Steelers O-cordinator not helping them reach their potential.

steelz09
01-23-2012, 11:26 AM
Tough Ben. Get over it.

Enough w/ the man crush already.

Sugar
01-23-2012, 11:35 AM
It can get worse than Arians. From what I've seen, most NFL fans don't think their OC is worth squat.

BTW- Even if Ben is upset about Arians being gone doesn't make him a baby. I've seen respected managers up to C-level execs leave companies and there is often some angst, especially when you've worked well together in the past. Perhaps there is a feeling that the person is unduly taking the fall for a collective problem. At the end of the day, some of the replacements were better and some were clearly not.

I guess we'll find out in the coming years.

Slapstick
01-23-2012, 12:21 PM
But if the reports are right, and the Steelers removed Arians in order to bring back "blue collar offense", the Steelers may as well hire Marty Schottenheimer as the OC.

Because that's what we will be reverting to.

Taking the ball out of our star QB's hands, and putting it in Mendenhall's.

Who is happy with that Offensive shift?

I never saw the words "blue collar offense"...I read "blue collar identity", which is an entirely different prospect altogether...

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
01-23-2012, 12:32 PM
Matt Light - 2nd rounder - 3 x pro bowler
Logan Mankins - 1st rounder - 4 x pro bowler
Dan Koppen - 5th rounder - pro bowl alternate and 1 x pro bowler
Brian Waters - UDFA but not by NE. Ne signed him this past off season after he was already an established player - 6 x pro bowler
Sebastian Vollmer - 2nd rounder
Nate Solder - 1st rounder

Before we talk about the Pats having no weapons, you must take this into consideration.

grotonsteel
01-23-2012, 01:08 PM
Matt Light - 2nd rounder - 3 x pro bowler
Logan Mankins - 1st rounder - 4 x pro bowler
Dan Koppen - 5th rounder - pro bowl alternate and 1 x pro bowler
Brian Waters - UDFA but not by NE. Ne signed him this past off season after he was already an established player - 6 x pro bowler
Sebastian Vollmer - 2nd rounder
Nate Solder - 1st rounder

Before we talk about the Pats having no weapons, you must take this into consideration.


:Agree

:Clap

fezziwig
01-23-2012, 01:15 PM
maybe it's the coach able to get the most out of them ?

feltdizz
01-23-2012, 01:27 PM
Feltdizz - Because you were arguing just for the sake of arguing. Being obtuse. No one mentioned "crowning" them but you. Harbaugh took a 6-10 team (8-8 the year before) and turned them into winners (mostly the same team that sucked the year before). They scored 17 points in the 4th Q against the Saints. Harbaugh is being considered for Coach of the year and you just ignore it. You are the only person who doesn't think he had even a tiny bearing on their success this year - and that was my only point - coaching matters and Arians has done nothing to coach up the O. I never stated the Steelers suck, nor do I believe it. But I do believe they could improve an offense that does have some weapons. And the Steelers ownership agrees.

So yes, I think you are purposefuly being unpleasant when you continue to mindlessly harp on something that was a minor example of the bigger picture. I could have used other teams where coaching made a difference. Forget the damn 49'ers and try to focus on the Steelers O-cordinator not helping them reach their potential.

who is being unpleasant? When did I call you a d@ck or call you out of your name?

not trying to be obtuse at all... I never said Harbaugh doesn't deserve credit. SF has tons of talent and Harbaugh definitely got the most out of them... he will win coach of the year easily.

All I did was point out how many studs they have on D and O due to a ton of high draft picks...

It's much easier to see evidence of success when you have studs all over the field and previous coaches who couldn't utilize the talent. I don't agree with using Harbaugh as proof Arians didn't get the most out of Ben, young WR's, Mendenhall and a horrible OL.

I think their D is the reason for most of their success...and Alex Smith was HORRIBLE yesterday. 8)

rockonsteel
01-23-2012, 01:40 PM
maybe it's the coach able to get the most out of them ?


Now, you know that concept is not welcome around here. The players just have to execute. And they all have to be first-rounders. Only way to make it work.


Rockon

grotonsteel
01-23-2012, 01:43 PM
maybe it's the coach able to get the most out of them ?


Now, you know that concept is not welcome around here. The players just have to execute. And they all have to be first-rounders. Only way to make it work.


Rockon


I think coaches need to put up a plan where players can succeed and players need to execute that plan. I think planning and execution should go hand-in-hand.

feltdizz
01-23-2012, 01:46 PM
maybe it's the coach able to get the most out of them ?


Now, you know that concept is not welcome around here. The players just have to execute. And they all have to be first-rounders. Only way to make it work.


Rockon

not true.. but 1st rounders help.

hawaiiansteel
01-24-2012, 08:07 PM
Arians: Steelers didn't offer me a contract

By Mark Kaboly, PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Tuesday, January 24, 2012


The Steelers called it a retirement, but Bruce Arians has a little different take on it.

Arians told his hometown newspaper -- York Daily Record -- that he had little choice whether he was going to return for a sixth year as Steelers' offensive coordinator.

"When I wasn't offered a contract, it was an easy decision for me," Arians said.

Arians helped the Steelers win Super Bowl XLIII and play in another before he was let go on Friday in what the organization labeled as a retirement.

According to Arians, that wasn't the case, and owner Art Rooney didn't give him a reason why.

"I can't answer that question," Arians said. "Only the people there can. That's the business. I know the job we did as a staff. I don't have any regrets."

Arians help lead the Steelers to back-to-back 12-4 seasons, and helped Ben Roethlisberger develop into one of the top quarterbacks in the league.

Arians said that Roethlisberger wasn't happy with the decision.

"He's not happy, but that's part of the business," Arians said. "He is happy for me. He lives around the corner and we'll still see each other a lot. The phone is always there when he needs me."

Roethlisberger and Arians live near one another in Georgia, and Roethlisberger actually went to bat for Arians two years ago when his job was in jeopardy again.

Arians said that he has been contacted by "five or six" teams since Friday, but wouldn't go into specifics.

Arians touched on other topics as well.

On Mike Tomlin: "My door is always open to him. I respect him a ton. I enjoyed our relationship and learned a lot. It was great watching him grow and working with him."

On what he will miss the most: "The daily interaction with the guys is fantastic. It keeps you young, and it's fun. That part I will miss. It's a great group of young players in Pittsburgh that was fun to coach and will be really good, and I'm looking forward to watching them. The thrill of the games is always something you will miss . . . I will miss the camaraderie in the locker room."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... z1kQ6kPnN4 (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_778095.html#ixzz1kQ6kPnN4)

fezziwig
01-24-2012, 09:21 PM
As much as I wanted BA out of here I do feel bad for him or anyone that losses their job or has heartbreak. It was Arians job to keep and he couldn't produce enough to keep his job.
An elite QB, talent up and down the field at receivers, runningbacks should have gotten us a lot more points on the board.

Argue if you want about our o-line but, they got us to two Super Bowls maybe three. There are ways around an injured o-line by running more draws, having a fullback, throwing to your tightend, shot gun formations, etc. Did you guys notice Brady in the first play of the game ? They had him in shotgun and why, they knew he was up against a good defense.

I remember the year the Eagles torched our o-line for 10 sacks but, you never seen any adjustments. Another time against the Ravens they scorched us for sacks. After the game they interviewed Suggs I think and they asked him why they has so much success against the Steelers.
His response was, they are either arrogant or stupid. They kept thinking they could block seven to nine rushers with their standard group of o-line so, we kept throwing the kitchen sink at them since they weren't going to adjust to stop us.
That truly speaks volumes about bad coaching.

feltdizz
01-24-2012, 09:53 PM
Argue if you want about our o-line but, they got us to two Super Bowls maybe three.

:wft Our OL NEVER got us to a SB under Arians....

fezziwig
01-24-2012, 10:02 PM
Argue if you want about our o-line but, they got us to two Super Bowls maybe three.

:wft Our OL NEVER got us to a SB under Arians....


Your right......it was Ben being able to run and make plays out of nothing at all.

I give no credit or very little credit to Arians for any of our offensive success. We won despite him.

feltdizz
01-24-2012, 10:43 PM
Argue if you want about our o-line but, they got us to two Super Bowls maybe three.

:wft Our OL NEVER got us to a SB under Arians....


Your right......it was Ben being able to run and make plays out of nothing at all.

I give no credit or very little credit to Arians for any of our offensive success. We won despite him.

That doesn't explain the comment about how the OL got us to 2 SB's...

That made no sense at all...

fezziwig
01-24-2012, 10:58 PM
I'm saying that, despite our injuries or people want to call them a bad unit, we still got to the Super Bowl. I thought our o-line played well during the playoffs. No team has all their pieces in place. Coaches can't always have number one picks, totally healthy players to win every game. At some point coaches need to know how to get around that kind of stuff.

Many want to blame Arians troubles on the o-line and that just isn't the case. Did Arians do anything to react to the troubles they had ? No... He did little play action, no short passes, no screens except maybe a couple this season. Seldom did he have Ben getting rid of the ball quickly or three step drops.
As good as Brady and his o-line is they had him going against the Ravens in a shotgun on the very first play of the game,
Arians did little to nothing to help out Ben or the o-line woes so, I give credit to the o-line for what they did accomplish while being coached by a guy that fails to make adjustments.

feltdizz
01-24-2012, 11:55 PM
Brady spends most of his time in the shotgun. Not sure why that is such a big deal. The Pats have the best system in football. Brady has no problem throwing short 3 yard passes and letting the receivers do the rest on 3rd and 8. Ben doesn't like dink and dunk.

It's real hard to play action when your OL is bad and injured all the time.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-25-2012, 12:04 AM
Arians does the OL no favors with his formations & play design. What kind of nitwit designs plays where every offensive player is within 5 yards of the tackle box. The defense then mirrors this so 1 or 2 defenders can cover the WR's/TE's until they separate. All the while Ben is dropping back on a 5 or 7 step drop & the routes take forever to develop & the only non cluttered area of the field is down the sidelines which are easily covered by safety help.

We couldn't even run a legit screen pass to a RB in this offense.

If Art II decided to break up the mastermind duo of Ben & Arians I think it's a wise move. As a duo I am unsure we could handle another season of their genius. Maybe we can now finally break out like we have been hearing they are close to doing.

Look, am I happy Ben is our QB? Absolutely. Do I think he can up his game? Absolutely. I don't think that was happening under Uncle Bruce.

fezziwig
01-25-2012, 12:25 AM
Arians does the OL no favors with his formations & play design. What kind of nitwit designs plays where every offensive player is within 5 yards of the tackle box. The defense then mirrors this so 1 or 2 defenders can cover the WR's/TE's until they separate. All the while Ben is dropping back on a 5 or 7 step drop & the routes take forever to develop & the only non cluttered area of the field is down the sidelines which are easily covered by safety help.

We couldn't even run a legit screen pass to a RB in this offense.

If Art II decided to break up the mastermind duo of Ben & Arians I think it's a wise move. As a duo I am unsure we could handle another season of their genius. Maybe we can now finally break out like we have been hearing they are close to doing.

Look, am I happy Ben is our QB? Absolutely. Do I think he can up his game? Absolutely. I don't think that was happening under Uncle Bruce.


exactly ! Our offensive line wouldn't be giving up so many sacks if what you mentioned actually would take place. The defense knows they can bring the house at Ben becasue he is mostly always doing the 5 and 7 drop backs. Just how long are the o - linemen supposed to engage the rush ? Not to mention he allows the play clock to run down to the last second practically everytime.

Mister Pittsburgh
01-25-2012, 12:28 AM
Arians does the OL no favors with his formations & play design. What kind of nitwit designs plays where every offensive player is within 5 yards of the tackle box. The defense then mirrors this so 1 or 2 defenders can cover the WR's/TE's until they separate. All the while Ben is dropping back on a 5 or 7 step drop & the routes take forever to develop & the only non cluttered area of the field is down the sidelines which are easily covered by safety help.

We couldn't even run a legit screen pass to a RB in this offense.

If Art II decided to break up the mastermind duo of Ben & Arians I think it's a wise move. As a duo I am unsure we could handle another season of their genius. Maybe we can now finally break out like we have been hearing they are close to doing.

Look, am I happy Ben is our QB? Absolutely. Do I think he can up his game? Absolutely. I don't think that was happening under Uncle Bruce.


exactly ! Our offensive line wouldn't be giving up so many sacks if what you mentioned actually would take place. The defense knows they can bring the house at Ben becasue he is mostly always doing the 5 and 7 drop backs. Just how long are the o - linemen supposed to engage the rush ? Not to mention he allows the play clock to run down to the last second practically everytime.

Letting the play clock run to 1 is so irritating.

fezziwig
01-25-2012, 12:46 AM
I'll tell you something else that bothers me, Bens handoffs. He doesn't even try to make it look like a fake or what have you. He broadcast it with his body langauge. He will stand there with his arm stretched across the field meanwhile, Mendy is still getting out from his stance while Ben looking every bit the statue.

Jooser
01-25-2012, 07:10 AM
***YAWN*** :tt2

Steelers>NFL
01-25-2012, 09:12 AM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":2sc2gwcl]Arians does the OL no favors with his formations & play design. What kind of nitwit designs plays where every offensive player is within 5 yards of the tackle box. The defense then mirrors this so 1 or 2 defenders can cover the WR's/TE's until they separate. All the while Ben is dropping back on a 5 or 7 step drop & the routes take forever to develop & the only non cluttered area of the field is down the sidelines which are easily covered by safety help.

We couldn't even run a legit screen pass to a RB in this offense.

If Art II decided to break up the mastermind duo of Ben & Arians I think it's a wise move. As a duo I am unsure we could handle another season of their genius. Maybe we can now finally break out like we have been hearing they are close to doing.

Look, am I happy Ben is our QB? Absolutely. Do I think he can up his game? Absolutely. I don't think that was happening under Uncle Bruce.


exactly ! Our offensive line wouldn't be giving up so many sacks if what you mentioned actually would take place. The defense knows they can bring the house at Ben becasue he is mostly always doing the 5 and 7 drop backs. Just how long are the o - linemen supposed to engage the rush ? Not to mention he allows the play clock to run down to the last second practically everytime.

Letting the play clock run to 1 is so irritating.[/quote:2sc2gwcl]
YES IT IS!!! And yes I yelled. This tees me off. Because it seems that Ben does this almost ALL the time. Which makes it easier for the defense to tee off on the line & Ben. Because they know they can hold back to the end. You watch Brady, he is all over the place on when he gets the snaps. No same time back to back. Why can't Ben not do this? Is he really not that smart? Who knows.

BradshawsHairdresser
01-25-2012, 10:01 AM
I don't think it's that Ben isn't smart enough, but I do think he's stubborn, and resistant to change. He has a lot of little things in his game he ought to work on, but he's not going to work on them unless and until someone makes him do it.

That's why I tend to agree that getting him the "benevolent uncle" type of OC (that he's been used to with Arians) is not necessarily the best thing for him or the team. Get somebody who will get in Ben's face and tell him he's got to change certain things. Of course, Tomlin would have to back up that OC and be willing to sit Ben on the bench for a short time, if necessary, to help "encourage" him to change.

Ben is a great QB. He could become an elite QB. But all the "coddling" has done him no favors in that regard, IMO.

feltdizz
01-25-2012, 10:55 AM
Not sure if this "get in Ben's face" is realistic...

fezziwig
01-25-2012, 01:40 PM
I doubt now a person can get in Bens face with all the freedom he has had and three trips ti the super bowl. He neds someone he can respect enough without Ben wanting to do his own thing.

Did Arians and Tomlin create a monster ? I don't really think so but, he does seem to do what ever pleases him.

feltdizz
01-25-2012, 02:01 PM
I doubt now a person can get in Bens face with all the freedom he has had and three trips ti the super bowl. He neds someone he can respect enough without Ben wanting to do his own thing.

Did Arians and Tomlin create a monster ? I don't really think so but, he does seem to do what ever pleases him.

Big Ben's arm and legs created a monster. Fame created a monster....

When you can extend plays and sandlot your way to SB's behind sub par lines what can coaches do? Tell you to stop? Ask you to change who you are?

I complain about Ben holding the ball too long but that's who he is...

Slapstick
01-25-2012, 03:56 PM
Big Ben's arm and legs created a monster. Fame created a monster....

When you can extend plays and sandlot your way to SB's behind sub par lines what can coaches do? Tell you to stop? Ask you to change who you are?

I complain about Ben holding the ball too long but that's who he is...

That's who Aaron Rodgers was, as well...he changed to a degree...

If you want Ben to emulate these successful QBs, you have to point that out to him...

Drew Brees? Record breaker...

Aaron Rodgers? MVP...

Tom Brady? 5th Super Bowl appearance...

If he won't adjust his game after that...

NJ-STEELER
01-25-2012, 07:09 PM
man, do some of you watch any other football games or other qb'S. 90% OF all the other qbs in the league Let the clock run down to nothing

fezziwig
01-25-2012, 07:16 PM
If you say so then, I believe you. That is stupid if they do. From as far back as I can remember playing football, be it the back yard, pee wee, jr. high , high school along with listening/watching pro ball and what the coaches preached, keep the defense guessing and don't allow them to get in a rythm or comfort zone.

NJ-STEELER
01-25-2012, 07:26 PM
with the amount offenses change formations , then get into the huddle, then get to the LOS... i'd go even higher and say 95% of the snaps taken have 4 or less seconds on the clock

barring hurry up offenses

hawaiiansteel
01-26-2012, 02:02 AM
The Steel Mill

News and updates about the Pittsburgh Steelers

Another twist in Arians v. Steelers

January 25th, 2012


Did he retire?

Was he forced out?

Well, you know what they say — there’s your side, my side and and somewhere in the middle is the truth.

It appears now that the lack of committment to a long-term future by Arians forced Steelers Art Rooney to finally pull the trigger and not offer the offensive coordinator a new contract — or so that’s the story today.

In an interview conducted by Bob Labriola on Steelers.com today, Labriola pulled no punches and came out and directly asked Rooney if he had anything to do with Arians’ deparature.

Although Rooney sidestepped the question at first, he gave a peak into his thought process a little later.

“Bruce talked about retiring for a number of years now,” Rooney said. “We are looking to improve on offense and to have somebody in place for a number of years. I think it was time for a change. We are looking forward to moving on.”

Arians said earlier in the week that he had no choice but to retire after the team did not offer him a contract, and that he had been contacted already by a number of teams about coaching next year.

That was stark contrast to late last week when the Steelers sent out a press release saying that Arians retired after five years with the team as the offensive coordinator that resulted in two Super Bowl appearances.

Rooney initially did not answer the question of if he had anything directly to do with Arians’ departure.

“The question of how we got here is not really relevant,” Rooney said. “The key now is that Mike (Tomlin) has begun the search for our next offensive coordinator. We will go through the process and interview the right candidates.”

The Steelers offense finished 12th in total offense (372.3 yards per game) and 21st in points per game (20.3) last year.

Stay tuned, I am sure the story is not over yet. We still have to hear from Ben Roethlisberger, now don’t we?

– By Mark Kaboly

http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/201 ... -steelers/ (http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/2012/01/25/another-twist-in-arians-v-steelers/)

feltdizz
01-26-2012, 09:34 AM
Big Ben's arm and legs created a monster. Fame created a monster....

When you can extend plays and sandlot your way to SB's behind sub par lines what can coaches do? Tell you to stop? Ask you to change who you are?

I complain about Ben holding the ball too long but that's who he is...

That's who Aaron Rodgers was, as well...he changed to a degree...

If you want Ben to emulate these successful QBs, you have to point that out to him...

Drew Brees? Record breaker...

Aaron Rodgers? MVP...

Tom Brady? 5th Super Bowl appearance...

If he won't adjust his game after that...

Ben, 3 SB appearances... 2 rings... THE TACKLE...

Brady, Brees and Rodgers rookie year.. 0-0 COMBINED.

Ben's rookie year... 13-0

I want Ben to emulate what some of these QB's are doing but I also realize Ben has been so successful doing it his way that changing his game won't be an easy task.

Maybe we only get 5 more years out of him but if we are 10-6 to 13-3 all those years and make it to 1 more SB can we really complain about him doing it his way?

Like Jay Z said.. "Everyone can tell you how to do it but they never did it"

feltdizz
01-26-2012, 09:39 AM
with the amount offenses change formations , then get into the huddle, then get to the LOS... i'd go even higher and say 95% of the snaps taken have 4 or less seconds on the clock

barring hurry up offenses

I disagree... Brady usually snaps the ball with 10 seconds left unless he is milking the clock.

running it down to 4 or 5 seconds is a big difference IMO.

AngryAsian
01-26-2012, 09:56 AM
Big Ben's arm and legs created a monster. Fame created a monster....

When you can extend plays and sandlot your way to SB's behind sub par lines what can coaches do? Tell you to stop? Ask you to change who you are?

I complain about Ben holding the ball too long but that's who he is...

That's who Aaron Rodgers was, as well...he changed to a degree...

If you want Ben to emulate these successful QBs, you have to point that out to him...

Drew Brees? Record breaker...

Aaron Rodgers? MVP...

Tom Brady? 5th Super Bowl appearance...

If he won't adjust his game after that...

Logic in excess

Slapstick
01-26-2012, 10:02 AM
Ben, 3 SB appearances... 2 rings... THE TACKLE...

Brady, Brees and Rodgers rookie year.. 0-0 COMBINED.

Ben's rookie year... 13-0

I want Ben to emulate what some of these QB's are doing but I also realize Ben has been so successful doing it his way that changing his game won't be an easy task.

Maybe we only get 5 more years out of him but if we are 10-6 to 13-3 all those years and make it to 1 more SB can we really complain about him doing it his way?

Like Jay Z said.. "Everyone can tell you how to do it but they never did it"

"I don't argue that Ben has been very successful doing it "his way"...

But, as we are all fond of saying, the NFL isn't about what you've done, it's about what you are going to do...

The reality is that Ben will be 30 in about 6 weeks...it's all up to him if he wants to have a longer, more successful career or if he's happy with what he's accomplished so far and is unwilling to elevate his game to true Hall of Fame levels...

Ben has the arm and the ability to adjust his style of play, extend his career and earn more championships and accolades...

He just has to face reality...

While Brees, Brady and Rodgers were all 0-0 their rookie seasons, none of them are rookies and I would give all of them a better chance of starting another Super Bowl after this year than I would Ben at this point...

The Steelers need to hire an OC and/or QB coach who is willing to force Ben to face that reality...that's what Art Rooney wants for his $100 million franchise QB...

feltdizz
01-26-2012, 10:11 AM
Who knows if that is what the Rooney's want from Ben or if they will get it.

Ben has just as much of a chance as Rodgers or Brees to make another SB. He probably has a better chance due to how good our D is....

We don't need Ben to be Brees or Rodgers to make it to SB's...

Ben has been to 3... these other jokers :wink: have been to 2 combined.

Steelers>NFL
01-26-2012, 10:56 AM
Who knows if that is what the Rooney's want from Ben or if they will get it.

Ben has just as much of a chance as Rodgers or Brees to make another SB. He probably has a better chance due to how good our D is....

We don't need Ben to be Brees or Rodgers to make it to SB's...

Ben has been to 3... these other jokers :wink: have been to 2 combined.
If Rogers was at helm for the QB for the Steelers rather than Ben in the same time frame, he would have been to at least 3 SBs. No doubt.

Slapstick
01-26-2012, 11:34 AM
Who knows if that is what the Rooney's want from Ben or if they will get it.

Umm...we know that is what Rooney wants:


"I'm not sure if I'd say change [Ben's] style of play," Rooney said. "He may need to tweak it a little bit, but Ben is Ben, and you wouldn't want to try to convince him to completely change his game. A lot of what he does is the reason he is successful. On the other side of the coin, he is turning 30, and we do need him to stay healthy and taking fewer sacks would probably help that equation."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12019/12 ... z1kZvP6Qj1 (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12019/1204448-150-0.stm#ixzz1kZvP6Qj1)


Ben has just as much of a chance as Rodgers or Brees to make another SB. He probably has a better chance due to how good our D is....

I said start a SB...Ben can't even finish the season healthy...


We don't need Ben to be Brees or Rodgers to make it to SB's...

Ben has been to 3... these other jokers :wink: have been to 2 combined.

No, but we do need Ben to elevate his game to make it to SBs...part of that is not pretending to be 22 years old...

Rare are the athletes that are the same at 30 that they are at 22...Ben is not one of those rarities...he has the arm and the ability to transcend the sandlot play of his early career...as Tomlin says, in the NFL you are either getting better or getting worse...Ben needs to get better...

feltdizz
01-26-2012, 01:48 PM
Who knows if that is what the Rooney's want from Ben or if they will get it.

Ben has just as much of a chance as Rodgers or Brees to make another SB. He probably has a better chance due to how good our D is....

We don't need Ben to be Brees or Rodgers to make it to SB's...

Ben has been to 3... these other jokers :wink: have been to 2 combined.
If Rogers was at helm for the QB for the Steelers rather than Ben in the same time frame, he would have been to at least 3 SBs. No doubt.

If....

We have concrete evidence on the number of SB's Ben has started in...

feltdizz
01-26-2012, 01:57 PM
Who knows if that is what the Rooney's want from Ben or if they will get it.

Umm...we know that is what Rooney wants:


"I'm not sure if I'd say change [Ben's] style of play," Rooney said. "He may need to tweak it a little bit, but Ben is Ben, and you wouldn't want to try to convince him to completely change his game. A lot of what he does is the reason he is successful. On the other side of the coin, he is turning 30, and we do need him to stay healthy and taking fewer sacks would probably help that equation."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12019/12 ... z1kZvP6Qj1 (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12019/1204448-150-0.stm#ixzz1kZvP6Qj1)


Ben has just as much of a chance as Rodgers or Brees to make another SB. He probably has a better chance due to how good our D is....

I said start a SB...Ben can't even finish the season healthy...


We don't need Ben to be Brees or Rodgers to make it to SB's...

Ben has been to 3... these other jokers :wink: have been to 2 combined.

No, but we do need Ben to elevate his game to make it to SBs...part of that is not pretending to be 22 years old...

Rare are the athletes that are the same at 30 that they are at 22...Ben is not one of those rarities...he has the arm and the ability to transcend the sandlot play of his early career...as Tomlin says, in the NFL you are either getting better or getting worse...Ben needs to get better...

I don't think Ben needs to elevate his game to make it to more SB's. It would be nice if he did elevate his game but I wouldn't be surprised if Ben plays this way until he retires. He needs to take less hits to play "longer" but Ben could make it to 2 more SB's in the next 5 years without elevating his game one bit.

Why? Because unless we have an epic meltdown on D like in Denver we will always be one play away from winning any game....

Slapstick
01-26-2012, 04:04 PM
I don't think Ben needs to elevate his game to make it to more SB's. It would be nice if he did elevate his game but I wouldn't be surprised if Ben plays this way until he retires. He needs to take less hits to play "longer" but Ben could make it to 2 more SB's in the next 5 years without elevating his game one bit.

Why? Because unless we have an epic meltdown on D like in Denver we will always be one play away from winning any game....

I agree...

And, I think the likelihood of the Steelers making that play would be greatly increased if Ben Roethlisberger weren't nursing a high ankle sprain...

Imagine if the Steelers could win the game by more than one play...

feltdizz
01-26-2012, 04:40 PM
I don't think Ben needs to elevate his game to make it to more SB's. It would be nice if he did elevate his game but I wouldn't be surprised if Ben plays this way until he retires. He needs to take less hits to play "longer" but Ben could make it to 2 more SB's in the next 5 years without elevating his game one bit.

Why? Because unless we have an epic meltdown on D like in Denver we will always be one play away from winning any game....

I agree...

And, I think the likelihood of the Steelers making that play would be greatly increased if Ben Roethlisberger weren't nursing a high ankle sprain...

Imagine if the Steelers could win the game by more than one play...

It would be lovely... but as much as I love seeing us crush opponents I can admit that these last 5 years sitting on the edge of my couch have been awesome.

The play Ben was hurt on was stupid... he should have thrown that away... I've bashed Ben countless times for taking meaningless hits. However, he is our QB and this is how he plays the game.

Brady was lost for a season sitting in the pocket... you never know when you will be injured so you might as well go out and play your game so you won't have any regrets if it does happen.

All that being said.. I hope Ben wants to change/tweak his game but I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't or if the new OC gets bashed for throwing deep down field even though Ben is the one making the decisions once the ball is snapped.

NJ-STEELER
01-26-2012, 06:13 PM
with the amount offenses change formations , then get into the huddle, then get to the LOS... i'd go even higher and say 95% of the snaps taken have 4 or less seconds on the clock

barring hurry up offenses

I disagree... Brady usually snaps the ball with 10 seconds left unless he is milking the clock.

running it down to 4 or 5 seconds is a big difference IMO.

does brady account for more then 5-10% of total snaps in the league?

NJ-STEELER
01-26-2012, 06:16 PM
Who knows if that is what the Rooney's want from Ben or if they will get it.

Ben has just as much of a chance as Rodgers or Brees to make another SB. He probably has a better chance due to how good our D is....

We don't need Ben to be Brees or Rodgers to make it to SB's...

Ben has been to 3... these other jokers :wink: have been to 2 combined.


rodgers might be out of the league by now if he had to play in that time span behind this OL and this system with his history of concussions

feltdizz
01-26-2012, 06:57 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":27dz6m6e]with the amount offenses change formations , then get into the huddle, then get to the LOS... i'd go even higher and say 95% of the snaps taken have 4 or less seconds on the clock

barring hurry up offenses

I disagree... Brady usually snaps the ball with 10 seconds left unless he is milking the clock.

running it down to 4 or 5 seconds is a big difference IMO.

does brady account for more then 5-10% of total snaps in the league?[/quote:27dz6m6e]
No he doesn't. Not sure why I wrote that.

95% may be accurate but the difference between snapping it with 5 seconds left and snapping it at 1 seconds is huge.

NJ-STEELER
01-26-2012, 07:19 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":ll2xm262]with the amount offenses change formations , then get into the huddle, then get to the LOS... i'd go even higher and say 95% of the snaps taken have 4 or less seconds on the clock

barring hurry up offenses

I disagree... Brady usually snaps the ball with 10 seconds left unless he is milking the clock.

running it down to 4 or 5 seconds is a big difference IMO.

does brady account for more then 5-10% of total snaps in the league?
No he doesn't. Not sure why I wrote that.

95% may be accurate but the difference between snapping it with 5 seconds left and snapping it at 1 seconds is huge.[/quote:ll2xm262]


he's likely the best in the league at that.

that said... do his TEs come off the field (except for a breather) hurry up, conventional offense etc etc gronk and henandez are in there. they arent subbing 1 or both of them to put 5 wide on the field cause they are just as potent in the passing game as having 5 wide. so seldom do they lose time subbing those 2 out of the packages they use

hawaiiansteel
01-27-2012, 01:48 AM
Art Rooney II on Bruce Arians: “It was time for a change”

Posted by Michael David Smith on January 26, 2012

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/artrooneymarch11ap-e1300044592327.jpg?w=233

Although the official company line on the departure of Steelers offensive coordinator Bruce Arians is that he retired, it’s been widely reported that he was actually forced out by Steelers owner Art Rooney II. In an interview on the team’s web site, Rooney declined to get into specifics, but didn’t deny that he’s the reason Arians is out.

And Rooney confirmed that he believes it was time for the Steelers to make a change offensively, and that he’s glad to see head coach Mike Tomlin working on hiring a new coordinator.

“Bruce did a good job for us and we appreciate everything he’s done,” Rooney said. “I think the questions of how we got here are not really relevant. I think the key now is Mike has begun the search for our next offensive coordinator and I think he’ll do a good job finding the right person. We’ll go through the process and interview the right candidates. But we’re looking to improve on offense and have somebody possibly to be in place for a number of years. Bruce had talked about retirement for a few years now, so I think it was time for a change, and we’re looking forward to moving on.”

Those comments do nothing to dispel the talk that Arian’s departure was Rooney’s call. Rooney may think the questions about how this came about are irrelevant, but if Arians is right that Ben Roethlisberger is unhappy, Rooney may find himself getting questioned by his quarterback.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -a-change/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/26/art-rooney-ii-on-bruce-arians-it-was-time-for-a-change/)

SS Laser
01-27-2012, 02:45 AM
I think the let the clock roll to 1 and snap it is part of the steelers offense. To try and keep the ball control offense going without running the ball. What is better to do? Run some clock that way or keep the defense guessing? I don't know.

feltdizz
01-27-2012, 10:04 AM
I think the let the clock roll to 1 and snap it is part of the steelers offense. To try and keep the ball control offense going without running the ball. What is better to do? Run some clock that way or keep the defense guessing? I don't know.

keep the D guessing... it leads to more first downs and longer drives.

feltdizz
01-27-2012, 10:05 AM
Art Rooney II on Bruce Arians: “It was time for a change”

Posted by Michael David Smith on January 26, 2012

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/artrooneymarch11ap-e1300044592327.jpg?w=233

Although the official company line on the departure of Steelers offensive coordinator Bruce Arians is that he retired, it’s been widely reported that he was actually forced out by Steelers owner Art Rooney II. In an interview on the team’s web site, Rooney declined to get into specifics, but didn’t deny that he’s the reason Arians is out.

And Rooney confirmed that he believes it was time for the Steelers to make a change offensively, and that he’s glad to see head coach Mike Tomlin working on hiring a new coordinator.

“Bruce did a good job for us and we appreciate everything he’s done,” Rooney said. “I think the questions of how we got here are not really relevant. I think the key now is Mike has begun the search for our next offensive coordinator and I think he’ll do a good job finding the right person. We’ll go through the process and interview the right candidates. But we’re looking to improve on offense and have somebody possibly to be in place for a number of years. Bruce had talked about retirement for a few years now, so I think it was time for a change, and we’re looking forward to moving on.”

Those comments do nothing to dispel the talk that Arian’s departure was Rooney’s call. Rooney may think the questions about how this came about are irrelevant, but if Arians is right that Ben Roethlisberger is unhappy, Rooney may find himself getting questioned by his quarterback.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -a-change/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/01/26/art-rooney-ii-on-bruce-arians-it-was-time-for-a-change/)

sounds like this was written write after Ben said he had questions for the owner. :roll:

hawaiiansteel
01-30-2012, 08:27 PM
Big Ben's sit-down is next big 'tweak'

Monday, January 30, 2012
By Ron Cook, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette


Two days to go. Two days and January finally is over. Two days and maybe the Steelers can get back to some sense of normalcy after enduring one of their roughest months in a long time.

Let's review how bad January has been:

• The Steelers lose in overtime in the first round of the playoffs to the underdog Denver Broncos by allowing Tim Tebow -- the worst quarterback in the NFL -- to throw for 316 yards and two touchdowns.

• Coach Mike Tomlin tells the media during his season-ending news conference that he anticipates his coaching staff will return for the 2012 season and, according to the Post-Gazette's Gerry Dulac, tells offensive coordinator Bruce Arians on multiple occasions that he wants him back.

• Team president Art Rooney II tells the Post-Gazette's Ed Bouchette that he thinks quarterback Ben Roethlisberger needs to "tweak" his game a bit in order to get hit less and take fewer sacks.

• The Steelers, in a curious, misguided and failed attempt at deception, announce Arians is retiring. He later said he was pushed out, apparently by Rooney over Tomlin's wishes. Rooney, coming clean just a bit with Steelers.com, says it was "time for a change." Arians isn't out of work long, accepting the offensive coordinator's job Saturday with the Indianapolis Colts.

• Roethlisberger isn't happy with losing Arians as his coordinator and says he will meet with Rooney to find out what direction he wants the offense to go.

• An ESPN report Sunday says linebackers coach Keith Butler has accepted the defensive coordinator's position with the Colts. Butler tells the Post-Gazette he will interview with the Colts Tuesday, but it is not a done deal. It's long been believed Butler would replace long-time defensive coordinator D!ck LeBeau, 74, when LeBeau retires.

Whew.

I'm thinking Roethlisberger has the best plan.

Wouldn't we all like to go see Rooney and find out what the heck is going on?

Until we hear more from Rooney and anything at all from Tomlin, who has been unavailable for comment as all of this has been going down, we are left with three conclusions:

• Rooney and Tomlin need to do a better job communicating. The way Arians' departure was handled embarrassed the organization. It also emasculated Tomlin as coach.

• Roethlisberger has every right to approach Rooney for a meeting. Clearly, Rooney wasn't happy with the offense this season. Roethlisberger is its on-field leader. It's his obligation to find out exactly what the boss wants.

• LeBeau had better not be planning to retire any time soon.

Not surprisingly, Roethlisberger's comments at the Pro Bowl have drawn the most response. He has been criticized for everything from being too close to Arians to having too much say in the offense to being disrespectful for saying he wants to meet with Rooney instead of following the chain of command and sitting down with Tomlin first.

All of it is nonsense.

Roethlisberger, just like any franchise quarterback, needs to be able to work closely with his offensive coordinator. Naturally, he was disappointed to lose Arians. "We kind of felt like we were really close to being great," Roethlisberger said of the team's offense. As for those who say Roethlisberger needs a boss, not a friend, he has a boss -- Tomlin -- although Tomlin seems a little weaker than he did before Rooney stepped in and pushed out Arians.

Roethlisberger should have a big say in the offense. The Steelers have invested $102 million in him. The offense will be most effective if it runs plays that make him comfortable. Do you really believe the New England Patriots run plays that Tom Brady doesn't like? Or that the New York Giants run plays that Eli Manning doesn't like? There's just no way.

Like many people, Roethlisberger is afraid of change. That's why it's believed he has pushed or will push for Steelers quarterback coach Randy Fichtner to replace Arians. Roethlisberger isn't thrilled by the possibility of learning a new offense with new terminology, but, if he must, he will. He's a professional. He also is an amazing competitor. He just wants to win.

As for approaching Rooney, Roethlisberger is anything but uppity for wanting to do it. It was Rooney, you might remember, who talked publicly about the need for Roethlisberger to "tweak" his game before he spoke to Roethlisberger about it. You would think Rooney would want to make clear what he wants to Roethlisberger.

It's not as if Rooney is unapproachable. He might be the most approachable owner in pro sports. Like his father, Dan, before him, he's at the Steelers' South Side headquarters every day. He stands in the lunch line in the team cafeteria. He watches much of practice. He wants to have a relationship with his players. It's perfectly normal for Roethlisberger to walk into his office.

And that chain of command thing?

Presumably, Tomlin will sit in on the Roethlisberger-Rooney meeting.

Then again, it still is January, isn't it?

The bizarre way the Steelers are operating this month, it's probably not wise to presume anything.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12030/12 ... z1kzFdvJ11 (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12030/1206889-87-0.stm#ixzz1kzFdvJ11)

rockonsteel
01-31-2012, 10:25 AM
Big Ben's sit-down is next big 'tweak'

Monday, January 30, 2012
By Ron Cook, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette


Two days to go. Two days and January finally is over. Two days and maybe the Steelers can get back to some sense of normalcy after enduring one of their roughest months in a long time.

Let's review how bad January has been:

• The Steelers lose in overtime in the first round of the playoffs to the underdog Denver Broncos by allowing Tim Tebow -- the worst quarterback in the NFL -- to throw for 316 yards and two touchdowns.

• Coach Mike Tomlin tells the media during his season-ending news conference that he anticipates his coaching staff will return for the 2012 season and, according to the Post-Gazette's Gerry Dulac, tells offensive coordinator Bruce Arians on multiple occasions that he wants him back.

• Team president Art Rooney II tells the Post-Gazette's Ed Bouchette that he thinks quarterback Ben Roethlisberger needs to "tweak" his game a bit in order to get hit less and take fewer sacks.

• The Steelers, in a curious, misguided and failed attempt at deception, announce Arians is retiring. He later said he was pushed out, apparently by Rooney over Tomlin's wishes. Rooney, coming clean just a bit with Steelers.com, says it was "time for a change." Arians isn't out of work long, accepting the offensive coordinator's job Saturday with the Indianapolis Colts.

• Roethlisberger isn't happy with losing Arians as his coordinator and says he will meet with Rooney to find out what direction he wants the offense to go.

• An ESPN report Sunday says linebackers coach Keith Butler has accepted the defensive coordinator's position with the Colts. Butler tells the Post-Gazette he will interview with the Colts Tuesday, but it is not a done deal. It's long been believed Butler would replace long-time defensive coordinator D!ck LeBeau, 74, when LeBeau retires.

Whew.

I'm thinking Roethlisberger has the best plan.

Wouldn't we all like to go see Rooney and find out what the heck is going on?

Until we hear more from Rooney and anything at all from Tomlin, who has been unavailable for comment as all of this has been going down, we are left with three conclusions:

• Rooney and Tomlin need to do a better job communicating. The way Arians' departure was handled embarrassed the organization. It also emasculated Tomlin as coach.

• Roethlisberger has every right to approach Rooney for a meeting. Clearly, Rooney wasn't happy with the offense this season. Roethlisberger is its on-field leader. It's his obligation to find out exactly what the boss wants.

• LeBeau had better not be planning to retire any time soon.

Not surprisingly, Roethlisberger's comments at the Pro Bowl have drawn the most response. He has been criticized for everything from being too close to Arians to having too much say in the offense to being disrespectful for saying he wants to meet with Rooney instead of following the chain of command and sitting down with Tomlin first.

All of it is nonsense.

Roethlisberger, just like any franchise quarterback, needs to be able to work closely with his offensive coordinator. Naturally, he was disappointed to lose Arians. "We kind of felt like we were really close to being great," Roethlisberger said of the team's offense. As for those who say Roethlisberger needs a boss, not a friend, he has a boss -- Tomlin -- although Tomlin seems a little weaker than he did before Rooney stepped in and pushed out Arians.

Roethlisberger should have a big say in the offense. The Steelers have invested $102 million in him. The offense will be most effective if it runs plays that make him comfortable. Do you really believe the New England Patriots run plays that Tom Brady doesn't like? Or that the New York Giants run plays that Eli Manning doesn't like? There's just no way.

Like many people, Roethlisberger is afraid of change. That's why it's believed he has pushed or will push for Steelers quarterback coach Randy Fichtner to replace Arians. Roethlisberger isn't thrilled by the possibility of learning a new offense with new terminology, but, if he must, he will. He's a professional. He also is an amazing competitor. He just wants to win.

As for approaching Rooney, Roethlisberger is anything but uppity for wanting to do it. It was Rooney, you might remember, who talked publicly about the need for Roethlisberger to "tweak" his game before he spoke to Roethlisberger about it. You would think Rooney would want to make clear what he wants to Roethlisberger.

It's not as if Rooney is unapproachable. He might be the most approachable owner in pro sports. Like his father, Dan, before him, he's at the Steelers' South Side headquarters every day. He stands in the lunch line in the team cafeteria. He watches much of practice. He wants to have a relationship with his players. It's perfectly normal for Roethlisberger to walk into his office.

And that chain of command thing?

Presumably, Tomlin will sit in on the Roethlisberger-Rooney meeting.

Then again, it still is January, isn't it?

The bizarre way the Steelers are operating this month, it's probably not wise to presume anything.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12030/12 ... z1kzFdvJ11 (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/12030/1206889-87-0.stm#ixzz1kzFdvJ11)

Did I mention Ron Cook is a first class, A-1 douchebag? An a$$hole of the highest order. He just can't get over the fact that his boyfriend's contract was not renewed. Not he's trying to jump on the Keith Butler bandwagon? Get the fuggouddahere!!! Guess he has to jump off now and I hope he breaks a hip doing so. KB is staying. BA is gone. RC is a tad bit chafed about it. Too Fuggin Bad!!!

Rockon

Ghost
01-31-2012, 12:55 PM
Rockon - it's obvious you're not a fan of Cook (that's cool), but what in this particular article riles you up?

I think it's spot on and mostly an objective look at all that's happened the last month. I don't see him being upset that Arians is gone. And he's right about the way it went down - it is embarrassing to have your HC telling the media the entire staff will be back while the Owner is getting ready to can the O-coordinator. I think it does make Tomlin look bad as well, as if he's not trusted to make major decisions regarding the diretion of the team.

And he does a good job of defending Big Ben. It is nonsense to think he's out of line to want to talk with ownership and coaches to see the direction the team is taking. He is the leader of the O. It's not as if he demanded to be a part of draft day decisions.

As for Butler, all he did was report what every other outlet reported. There was no commentary.

It has been a crazy January, starting with an inexcusible loss where the coaching staff put up an F effort. I hope things calm the F down. :tt2

feltdizz
01-31-2012, 01:13 PM
"I expect both coordinators will be back" - Tomlin

Tomlin is pretty good with his choice of words and that sentence makes it obvious to me that he doesn't have the final word on either returning. I'm tired of hearing about a 39 year old coach of the most storied franchise in all of sports being emasculated because his boss wanted to go in a different direction.

Everyone's check is signed by the Rooney's... not sure how Tomlin or any other person in the organization can be shown up by their boss. I could see if Rooney walked done and snatched the head set off of Tomlin's head but that isn't the case.

Ghost
01-31-2012, 01:25 PM
You may be tired of hearing it, but it's exactly what happened. Tomlin thought he had the authority to make major decisions and he found out in a public way he does not. Just because someone is your boss doesn''t mean they can't embarrass you. That's a preposterous thought process.

Spin it anyway you want but Art essentially said, Tomlin's opinion in this matter doesn't mean anything and I'm making the decision (although Dan had a hand in it as well for sure).

There's no reason Art could not have told Tomlin that at the end of the season all coaches would be up for review and then Tomlin could have passed that exact message on and made it look as if it was a joint decision when Arians was shown the door.

Oviedo
01-31-2012, 01:39 PM
"I expect both coordinators will be back" - Tomlin

Tomlin is pretty good with his choice of words and that sentence makes it obvious to me that he doesn't have the final word on either returning. I'm tired of hearing about a 39 year old coach of the most storied franchise in all of sports being emasculated because his boss wanted to go in a different direction.

Everyone's check is signed by the Rooney's... not sure how Tomlin or any other person in the organization can be shown up by their boss. I could see if Rooney walked done and snatched the head set off of Tomlin's head but that isn't the case.

:Agree Every boss has a choice to made a gut decision that his employee would not necessarily make. It doesn't mean you disrespect the employee it just means that you are the ultimate authority and have to go with your heart.

I think that is what happened here.

feltdizz
01-31-2012, 02:36 PM
You may be tired of hearing it, but it's exactly what happened. Tomlin thought he had the authority to make major decisions and he found out in a public way he does not. Just because someone is your boss doesn''t mean they can't embarrass you. That's a preposterous thought process.

Spin it anyway you want but Art essentially said, Tomlin's opinion in this matter doesn't mean anything and I'm making the decision (although Dan had a hand in it as well for sure).

There's no reason Art could not have told Tomlin that at the end of the season all coaches would be up for review and then Tomlin could have passed that exact message on and made it look as if it was a joint decision when Arians was shown the door.

The only one spinning it is you Ghost... did Rooney also talk about Tomlin's mama before making this decision? :roll: What's so embarrassing about an owner firing an OC after Tomlin says he "expects" him back? Nothing embarrassing about it at all. I could see if Tomlin has no part of the new coaching hire... or is stripped of 90% of his duties.... or fired. But embarrassed over BA getting canned? Sorry.. I disagree.

We have no idea how much authority Tomlin has but somehow you and a few others have him running the whole franchise top to bottom.

I wouldn't be surprised if Tomlin knew what was going to happen to BA....

Why would the Rooney's want Tomlin to be feel the wrath of Big Ben for firing his uncle? It makes more sense to have Tomlin shrugging his shoulders about BA when Ben comes in the facilities looking for answers.

Ghost
01-31-2012, 03:12 PM
I've never, ever said nor implied I think Tomlin is running things top to bottom. It's a stuipid thought and stupid of you to say.

Maybe you don't mind being embarrassed by your boss but some of us have some pride and confidence in our decision making skills in our particular careers. If my boss came to me and told me that one of my people was getting fired, without talking to me and after I'd told them to not worry about being let go and after I'd publicly told people that person was staying; I'd be pi$$ed and I'd certainly have to reevaluate where I stood and what authority I had.

Ron Cook has over 20 years working wiht the Steelers. Do you think he just made stuff up or maybe he's been around long enough to know when he uses the word embarrased its becasue that's the feeling aroud the clubhouse?

feltdizz
01-31-2012, 03:54 PM
I've never, ever said nor implied I think Tomlin is running things top to bottom. It's a stuipid thought and stupid of you to say.

Maybe you don't mind being embarrassed by your boss but some of us have some pride and confidence in our decision making skills in our particular careers. If my boss came to me and told me that one of my people was getting fired, without talking to me and after I'd told them to not worry about being let go and after I'd publicly told people that person was staying; I'd be pi$$ed and I'd certainly have to reevaluate where I stood and what authority I had.

Ron Cook has over 20 years working wiht the Steelers. Do you think he just made stuff up or maybe he's been around long enough to know when he uses the word embarrased its becasue that's the feeling aroud the clubhouse?

Ron Cook quoted Tomlin saying he was embarrassed? That's Cook's opinion of the situation... nothing more.

When did Tomlin tell Arians his job was safe?

Telling "your" people their job is safe is different then telling them you "expect" them to return. Tomlin didn't even tell Arians that so I have no idea why it's being discussed. He answered a question in a presser. How many times have coaches kept their word in a presser?

AS far as being embarrassed at my job...LOL

It's not my company and if my boss fires one of "my" people that I "expected" to return why would I feel embarrassed when 1)their contract expired, 2)has yet to be renewed, 3)they previously hinted at retirement and 4)were rumored to be on the hot seat the last year or 2?

also, it's not my company and I didn't hire the guy to being with.... .

As far as pride is concerned... I don't put my pride before the hierarchy of the company. Pride can make a man do some stupid things like questioning where I stand in a company when my boss makes an executive decision.

oh.. and nice ding about pride and confidence... you got me. :Beer
I guess LeBeau and BA and all the other coordinators lack those 2 qualities when a coach over rides their decisions or game planning.

hawaiiansteel
01-31-2012, 06:40 PM
http://files.pittsburghlive.com/img/logo_triblive.gif

MarkKaboly_Trib via twitter:

Offensive coordinators don't win championships. Happy franchise quarterbacks do.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... z1l4h3YDmI (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/#ixzz1l4h3YDmI)

fezziwig
01-31-2012, 09:07 PM
LMAO !

SteelTorch
01-31-2012, 09:24 PM
http://files.pittsburghlive.com/img/logo_triblive.gif

MarkKaboly_Trib via twitter:

Offensive coordinators don't win championships. Happy franchise quarterbacks do.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... z1l4h3YDmI (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/#ixzz1l4h3YDmI)
2005 season. End of story.

hawaiiansteel
02-02-2012, 02:47 PM
Gerry: Ben's opinion doesn't matter

THURSDAY, 02 FEBRUARY 2012 WRITTEN BY GERRY DULAC

I hope everyone is paying attention to how much input Ben Roethlisberger DOESN’T have in hiring an offensive coordinator. Nor will he.

While Roethlisberger spent last week at the Pro Bowl in Hawaii, Mike Tomlin interviewed two candidates for the position – former Colts Coach Jim Caldwell and former Chiefs Coach Todd Haley, an Upper St. Clair native and the son of the Steelers’ former personnel director.

This week, while the search continues, Roethlisberger is still in Hawaii, where he elected to stay after the Pro Bowl.

Anyone who knows Tomlin knows he never has and never will have any inclination to let a player – even Roethlisberger – have input into one of his hires.

Tomlin is not interested in what his players think about matters that involve him and his staff.

Once, when Tomlin was asked by a reporter about the good things his players were saying about him, he snapped back, “They’re not paid to evaluate me. I’m paid to evaluate them.”

No matter what Roethlisberger says, his opinion will not be sought in the hiring of an offensive coordinator.

That should be apparent after what happened to Bruce Arians.

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/inde ... &id=114686 (http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=114686)

RuthlessBurgher
02-02-2012, 04:36 PM
Fichtner and his wife went with Ben to Hawaii for the Pro Bowl. I wonder if they are back in the Burgh by now for the formal interview.

NJ-STEELER
02-06-2012, 05:50 PM
with the amount offenses change formations , then get into the huddle, then get to the LOS... i'd go even higher and say 95% of the snaps taken have 4 or less seconds on the clock

barring hurry up offenses

that was 2 timeouts burned in the 3rd quater by 2 time superbowl winning QB eli yesterday.

like i said, this chit happens a lot

Sugar
02-06-2012, 06:02 PM
Gerry: Ben's opinion doesn't matter

THURSDAY, 02 FEBRUARY 2012 WRITTEN BY GERRY DULAC

I hope everyone is paying attention to how much input Ben Roethlisberger DOESN’T have in hiring an offensive coordinator. Nor will he.

While Roethlisberger spent last week at the Pro Bowl in Hawaii, Mike Tomlin interviewed two candidates for the position – former Colts Coach Jim Caldwell and former Chiefs Coach Todd Haley, an Upper St. Clair native and the son of the Steelers’ former personnel director.

This week, while the search continues, Roethlisberger is still in Hawaii, where he elected to stay after the Pro Bowl.

Anyone who knows Tomlin knows he never has and never will have any inclination to let a player – even Roethlisberger – have input into one of his hires.

Tomlin is not interested in what his players think about matters that involve him and his staff.

Once, when Tomlin was asked by a reporter about the good things his players were saying about him, he snapped back, “They’re not paid to evaluate me. I’m paid to evaluate them.”

No matter what Roethlisberger says, his opinion will not be sought in the hiring of an offensive coordinator.

That should be apparent after what happened to Bruce Arians.

http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/inde ... &id=114686 (http://plus.sites.post-gazette.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=114686)

That's cute and all, but wasn't it Tomlin himself who went to dinner to get on the same page with Ben when he was hired? Yes, the coach has the positional authority. However, one as wise as I believe Tomlin is understands that the law of influence trumps positional authority in successful organizations.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
02-06-2012, 07:23 PM
Did we ever hear anything about what came out of the little talk Ben had with Rooney?

mazze
02-06-2012, 07:27 PM
Did we ever hear anything about what came out of the little talk Ben had with Rooney?

I just read somewhere that he was still in Hawaii.

hawaiiansteel
02-08-2012, 02:32 AM
Warner: Haley will challenge Ben

February 7th, 2012


With Todd Haley officially in as the Steelers’ new offensive coordinator, here are two questions to ponder: when will he have his first confrontation with Ben Roethlisberger and will it be public, say even at an OTA practice?

One thing the Steelers don’t have to worry about in the near future is Roethlisberger getting too chummy with the coach running the offense or wielding too much influence when it comes to the offense.

The Steelers couldn’t have swung the pendulum any further than they did when they hired Haley to succeed Bruce Arians.

That is at least the case when it comes to their franchise quarterback. And that is precisely the point of the change the Steelers made at offensive coordinator, as clumsily as they executed it.

The organization clearly thought it needed to shake things up a little with Roethlisberger and the offense. If it can navigate the tricky part -– getting Roethlisberger to buy into a new coach that will get in his face -– Haley might be just what an offense that underachieved last season needs.

Former Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner -– the one that led a second-half rally in the 2008 Super Bowl only to get trumped at the end by Roethlisberger –- credited Haley for helping him resuscitate his career in Arizona.

Haley’s coaching style can be as subtle as a cold glass of water thrown in the face, but Warner said it is effective. In a phone interview Tuesday Warner said the best advice he can give Roethlisberger is to get to know Haley –- and to understand that Haley wants to win as badly as anyone.

“He’s a coach that demands a lot of his players,” said Warner, who is now an analyst for the NFL Network. “He’s a coach that’s not afraid to challenge guys regardless of where you stand in the hierarchy, how long you’ve been there, what your contract is, what kind of success you’ve had.

“For me I got to know Todd and I got to understand that when Todd (lost his temper) that was out of his passion for the game, that was out of his passion for wanting our team to be great and wanting our team to accomplish more than we should have and sometimes that leads to those outbursts. Sometimes that leads to questioning guys in certain situations and I’m OK with it.”

Here are some other observations Warner shared about Haley, with whom he is still close:

On Haley as an offensive coach
“He’s a guy that’s innovative, that’s willing and open to change and do things that he feels can lead to success even if it’s not something he had done in the past. And he’s a guy that loves to push players on the football field as well as in the classroom and I think that’s a huge key. For him, it’s not just physical, he wants to push the envelope mentally too and challenge guys with new things, new things that can make them and the team better. I loved all of those things about him.”

On potential downside to Haley’s coaching style
“The unfortunate thing is I don’t think enough players have thick skin in this business where you can realize that a coach gets on you, embarrasses you or challenges you and it’s not always a personal thing. It’s not always about you as an individual and it’s not deeper than that. Sometimes, it’s ‘Hey I need more from you right now. I need you to battle for us. I need you to get in your playbook more. I need you to do this better.’ I love that and I think that was a big part of our success (in Arizona) because we never had a great football team but him along with the rest of the coaches pushed our guys to be great and to not settle. Any player can benefit from that if they’re open to that style and open to somebody challenging them in that way.”

On what he would tell Roethlisberger
“Everybody sees the outburst on the sidelines and hears about some of those things and they get scared away by that persona. They don’t really understand it and don’t really know what it’s all about. All I would tell those guys is you always have to figure out where a coach is coming from before you can read too much into certain characteristics or certain antics that they have. That was always my goal too, to be great and it challenged myself to be great and it challenged others guys to be great. When you know that and understand where it comes from, that it’s not a personal attack, I think if you want to be a great player then you’re willing to take that on and you have to have thick skin.”

– Scott Brown

http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/201 ... lenge-ben/ (http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/2012/02/07/warner-haley-will-challenge-ben/)

ikestops85
02-08-2012, 10:30 AM
Warner: Haley will challenge Ben

February 7th, 2012


With Todd Haley officially in as the Steelers’ new offensive coordinator, here are two questions to ponder: when will he have his first confrontation with Ben Roethlisberger and will it be public, say even at an OTA practice?

One thing the Steelers don’t have to worry about in the near future is Roethlisberger getting too chummy with the coach running the offense or wielding too much influence when it comes to the offense.

The Steelers couldn’t have swung the pendulum any further than they did when they hired Haley to succeed Bruce Arians.

That is at least the case when it comes to their franchise quarterback. And that is precisely the point of the change the Steelers made at offensive coordinator, as clumsily as they executed it.

The organization clearly thought it needed to shake things up a little with Roethlisberger and the offense. If it can navigate the tricky part -– getting Roethlisberger to buy into a new coach that will get in his face -– Haley might be just what an offense that underachieved last season needs.

Former Cardinals quarterback Kurt Warner -– the one that led a second-half rally in the 2008 Super Bowl only to get trumped at the end by Roethlisberger –- credited Haley for helping him resuscitate his career in Arizona.

Haley’s coaching style can be as subtle as a cold glass of water thrown in the face, but Warner said it is effective. In a phone interview Tuesday Warner said the best advice he can give Roethlisberger is to get to know Haley –- and to understand that Haley wants to win as badly as anyone.

“He’s a coach that demands a lot of his players,” said Warner, who is now an analyst for the NFL Network. “He’s a coach that’s not afraid to challenge guys regardless of where you stand in the hierarchy, how long you’ve been there, what your contract is, what kind of success you’ve had.

“For me I got to know Todd and I got to understand that when Todd (lost his temper) that was out of his passion for the game, that was out of his passion for wanting our team to be great and wanting our team to accomplish more than we should have and sometimes that leads to those outbursts. Sometimes that leads to questioning guys in certain situations and I’m OK with it.”

Here are some other observations Warner shared about Haley, with whom he is still close:

On Haley as an offensive coach
“He’s a guy that’s innovative, that’s willing and open to change and do things that he feels can lead to success even if it’s not something he had done in the past. And he’s a guy that loves to push players on the football field as well as in the classroom and I think that’s a huge key. For him, it’s not just physical, he wants to push the envelope mentally too and challenge guys with new things, new things that can make them and the team better. I loved all of those things about him.”

On potential downside to Haley’s coaching style
“The unfortunate thing is I don’t think enough players have thick skin in this business where you can realize that a coach gets on you, embarrasses you or challenges you and it’s not always a personal thing. It’s not always about you as an individual and it’s not deeper than that. Sometimes, it’s ‘Hey I need more from you right now. I need you to battle for us. I need you to get in your playbook more. I need you to do this better.’ I love that and I think that was a big part of our success (in Arizona) because we never had a great football team but him along with the rest of the coaches pushed our guys to be great and to not settle. Any player can benefit from that if they’re open to that style and open to somebody challenging them in that way.”

On what he would tell Roethlisberger
“Everybody sees the outburst on the sidelines and hears about some of those things and they get scared away by that persona. They don’t really understand it and don’t really know what it’s all about. All I would tell those guys is you always have to figure out where a coach is coming from before you can read too much into certain characteristics or certain antics that they have. That was always my goal too, to be great and it challenged myself to be great and it challenged others guys to be great. When you know that and understand where it comes from, that it’s not a personal attack, I think if you want to be a great player then you’re willing to take that on and you have to have thick skin.”

– Scott Brown

http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/201 ... lenge-ben/ (http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/2012/02/07/warner-haley-will-challenge-ben/)


This actually makes me feel better about the hire. I respect Warner and he is a guy that worked directly with Haley which, in my mind, makes his opinion worth more than those who haven't.

If he can consistently keep our offense in the top 5 year after year much like the old, game has passed him by, D Coordinator then I will be extremely happy. :stirpot

hawaiiansteel
02-17-2012, 08:54 PM
FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 17, 2012

Brown has no trouble meeting Haley


Antonio Brown today Tweeted - he's a Tweeting fool - a photo of he and new offensive coordinator Todd Haley in the Steelers locker room.

Brown just got back into Pittsburgh yesterday after his whirlwind tour of the country and met up with Haley in less than a day.

He did this by, you know, going down to the Steelers offices and seeking him out.

Yet somehow, Ben Roethlisberger hasn't been able to find Haley. Go figure?

Sounds like a little more drama from the king of drama.

I have a lot of respect for Roethlisberger the player. But I could do without all of the other stuff.

Then again, is it Roethlisberger making a big deal out of not talking to Haley yet or certain segments of the media?

So many of the issues with Roethlisberger are media driven as guys try to back their own agendas.

posted by Dale Lolley

http://www.observer-reporter.com/or/sidelines/

Sugar
02-17-2012, 11:28 PM
Ben will see plenty of Haley over the next year. No need to seek him out now. Some people really need something to write.

hawaiiansteel
02-21-2012, 10:27 PM
Updated: February 21, 2012

Ben Roethlisberger waits for OC's call

ESPN.com news services


Ben Roethlisberger wasn't happy when the Pittsburgh Steelers decided to part ways with Bruce Arians, his longtime offensive coordinator. Now he's still waiting to hear from Todd Haley, hired to call the offensive plays for the team next season.

"He still hasn't called yet," Roethlisberger told the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review on Monday of Haley, who was hired by the Steelers on Feb. 9. According to the newspaper, Roethlisberger had a "discouraged" tone to his voice.

Roethlisberger spent about five minutes at the Steelers' facility Monday, the newspaper reported. Steelers coaches leave for the scouting combine Wednesday so it's unlikely the quarterback and Haley will meet this week.

Roethlisberger acknowledged last week that he's been talking to people around the league about Haley and the response has been "good, bad and indifferent."

"I've heard a lot of things and I'm looking forward to meeting him and forming my own opinion," Roethlisberger said last week.

The Steelers let Arians' contract expire and then termed his exit from the team as a retirement. Arians, however, later accepted a job as the Indianapolis Colts' new offensive coordinator.

Pittsburgh ranked in the top half of the NFL in offense over the past three seasons but finished 12th this past season and a disappointing 21st in scoring.

Haley was fired as the head coach of the Chiefs on Dec. 13, after going 19-26 in two-plus seasons with Kansas City, leading the team to the 2010 AFC West title. He finished third in AP coach of the year voting that season with the league's top rushing offense.

As offensive coordinator of the Cardinals two years before that, Haley's offense was second in the NFL in passing.

At his introductory news conference earlier this month, Haley addressed the transition that Roethlisberger is facing and said he doesn't anticipate problems working with his new quarterback.

"Transition is always a little -- I wouldn't even say difficult -- but there's an uncomfortable aspect to newness," Haley said. "But that's not always a bad thing. I think it'll be a great thing in this case, and he's going to figure out that we're just trying to make him as good as he can possibly can be.

"Not many players that I've known have ever had an issue with that."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/75986 ... todd-haley (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7598615/pittsburgh-steelers-ben-roethlisberger-waiting-call-oc-todd-haley)

steelz09
02-21-2012, 10:40 PM
Ben,

You have a cell phone just like Haley does. Please! Please! Put this stuff to rest and call Haley.

Sugar
02-22-2012, 12:12 AM
Ben,

You have a cell phone just like Haley does. Please! Please! Put this stuff to rest and call Haley.

Apparently they had a meeting "recently." I don't see why Ben would have to call his boss. Normally, the boss calls the underling.

DukieBoy
02-22-2012, 09:00 AM
Ben,

You have a cell phone just like Haley does. Please! Please! Put this stuff to rest and call Haley.

Apparently they had a meeting "recently." I don't see why Ben would have to call his boss. Normally, the boss calls the underling.

Ben calling Haley on his cell phone >>> than Ben calling out Haley to the media.

hawaiiansteel
02-25-2012, 01:49 AM
Ranking the new coordinators: Arians, Del Rio best hires

PUBLISHED 2/23/12


There have been seven new head coaches hired for the 2012 NFL season, but because of firings, retirements and other departures, there have been four times as many changes at offensive and defensive coordinator.

Now that the Tampa Bay Buccaneers have found someone to operate their defense under Greg Schiano, there will be a grand total of 28 new coordinators. Here are SN's rankings, separated by sides of the ball:


Offensive coordinators

1. Bruce Arians, Colts. This was a huge coup for Indianapolis to be able to attach Andrew Luck to the man who worked so well with Ben Roethlisberger.

2. Josh McDaniels, Patriots. With Bill O'Brien leaving for Penn State, it's nice to fall back on the man behind a historic 2007 for Tom Brady and the passing offense.

3. Brian Daboll, Chiefs. He found plenty of answers late in the 2011 season with the Dolphins and will love working with a healthy Jamaal Charles.

4. Tony Sparano, Jets. New York strayed too far away from "ground-and-pound" in '11. Sparano will re-establish the strength of the offensive line.

5. Mike Sullivan, Buccaneers. Josh Freeman should appreciate the Bucs went straight to the Super Bowl champion Giants to pluck Eli Manning's mentor.

6. Tom Clements, Packers. He goes from being the best quarterbacks coach in the business to help Mike McCarthy and Aaron Rodgers keep their passing game humming.

7. Todd Haley, Steelers. His Chiefs' stint was rocky. Before that he was outstanding during his "Pittsburgh West" days in Arizona, which ended with him excelling against the Steelers in Super Bowl XLIII.

8. Bill Callahan, Cowboys. Jason Garrett still will be calling plays, but Callahan has a key role in helping the young offensive line jell so Dallas can better execute a balanced game plan.

9. Mike Sherman, Dolphins. This allows new coach Joe Philbin to bring another part of the Packers' way to South Beach. Will Matt Flynn follow?

10. Brian Schottenheimer, Rams. His new young quarterback project is Sam Bradford, and looking at his current personnel, Schottenheimer has plenty of hard work ahead.

11. Dirk Koetter, Falcons. Koetter has the advantage of inheriting a smart, confident quarterback in Matt Ryan who should make his job a lot easier.

12. Brad Childress, Browns. Childress must first figure out whom he can trust at quarterback, running back and wide receiver before thinking about how to make his West Coast scheme work.

13. Hal Hunter, Chargers. Similar to Callahan in Dallas, his job will be getting his line to mesh with the playbook of former Cowboys coordinator Norv Turner.

14. Mike Tice, Bears. Just when Jay Cutler, Matt Forte and the rest of Chicago's offensive skill players were getting used to Mike Martz, there will be some transition pains.

15. Bob Bratkowski, Jaguars. Although he has a big rushing asset in Maurice Jones-Drew, Bratkowski has quite a challenge in trying to help further develop Blaine Gabbert.

16. Greg Knapp, Raiders. Going the recycled route brings an uninspired choice to work with Carson Palmer and Darren McFadden.

Defensive coordinators

1. Jack Del Rio, Broncos. It has been 10 years since Del Rio worked with John Fox in Carolina, but it was a pairing that produced the NFL's No. 2 defense in '02. The former linebacker will love helping Von Miller reach a higher level.

2. Mike Nolan, Falcons. Nolan's vast knowledge of both 3-4 and 4-3 concepts should allow Atlanta to be more creative, and most important, improve at rushing the passer.

3. Steve Spagnuolo, Saints. Call it Spags to riches for the former Rams coach. He'll love how well a Drew Brees-led offense will complement his aggressive 4-3 play-calling.

4. Gregg Williams, Rams. Here's another welcome reunion, as Williams and Jeff Fisher will be on the same page to get the most out of some good young front-seven talent.

5. John Pagano, Chargers. His brother Chuck was an ace 3-4 coordinator in Baltimore, and John gets his chance to show he can be the same in San Diego.

6. Dean Pees, Ravens. They've consistently hit on this position, and Pees can build on both his two years as their linebackers coach and four years as a Patriots' coordinator under Bill Belichick.

7. Jason Tarver, Raiders. Oakland stayed local, pulling the former 49ers assistant away from Stanford. He'll need plenty of help from coach Dennis Allen to get the Raiders' defense back to respectability.

8. Kevin Coyle, Dolphins. Coyle did good work with the Bengals under Marvin Lewis, but matching what Nolan did will be tough.

9. Alan Williams, Vikings. There's the cover-2 connection with Leslie Frazier, but it won't matter much if Minnesota doesn't overhaul its secondary.

10. Bill Sheridan, Buccaneers. In his lone post-Super Bowl XLII season ('09) as the Giants' defensive coordinator, the unit really struggled before Perry Fewell restored its championship-caliber status.

11. Greg Manusky, Colts. He lasted only one year in San Diego as the unit had a big dropoff from Ron Rivera, while his replacement in San Francisco, Vic Fangio was a big improvement.

12. Dave Wannstedt, Bills. Two years removed from Fewell, Buffalo is reaching back more than a decade for defensive answers.

http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2 ... z1nMktgw7m (http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2012-02-20/new-coordinator-rankings-arians-del-rio-best-hires#ixzz1nMktgw7m)