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View Full Version : Here is a thought on the Steelers draft...



Dee Dub
01-19-2012, 02:14 PM
Since Marcus Gilbert is likely moving to LT, this may create a win-win situtation for the Steelers draft wise. I have been taking a long hard look at Zebrie Sanders (SKL gets credit for this :D ), and he is a solid RT who very well could come right in and start (like Gilbert did this tear). Because of the premium put on the LT those that are draft-able in round one are out of reach for the Steelers at 24. But a legit RT isnt. And quite frankly they may be even able to trade back a few spots and draft Zebrie Sanders along with acquiring another pick in round 2, 3, or 4. I am not a salary cap guy but I would think this would also free up "some" money by releasing Willie Colon. Too me, the more I look at this, the more I like it. I am not yet at 100% sold but I am starting to reach for my wallet.

Gilbert-Legursky-Pouncey-Foster-Sanders ( this may be the best O-line the Steelers have had in a long time).

Would love to hear some thoughts on this.

Dee Dub
01-19-2012, 02:17 PM
Oh, if Cody Glenn happens to be there at 24 then that too would work. Glenn can play either Tackle or Guard.

Slapstick
01-19-2012, 02:33 PM
Releasing Colon is not an option, capwise, at this point...

IIRC, releasing him would increase his cap hit this year...not the other way around...

Dee Dub
01-19-2012, 02:35 PM
Releasing Colon is not an option, capwise, at this point...

IIRC, releasing him would increase his cap hit this year...not the other way around...

So at no point during this off season he can released and save even a small amount of money? If not ok so be it. I still like the thought of Sanders or Cordy Glenn having a shot at that position.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
01-19-2012, 02:49 PM
Gilbert-Legursky-Pouncey-Foster-Sanders ( this may be the best O-line the Steelers have had in a long time).

Would love to hear some thoughts on this.

Any OL without Chris K on it would be the best we have had in a long time. :lol:

As far as the money thing goes, it looks like the deal Colon signed last season was a 5 year deal with a $6M SB. That means that the Steelers must still account for $4.8M in pro rated SB.

The best way to save on next year's cap is to cut him after June 1. We save all of his $4.5M salary and only get charged his $1.2M SB which is already accounted for on the cap. We are then charged $3.6M dead money in 2013.

The other way would be to cut him prior to June 1 and eat all of the remaining SB in the coming season. Savings would be about $900K.

Steelers generally won't cut a guy this soon with this much money still owing. I'm not a fan, but expect to see Colon back at RT next season.

Slapstick
01-19-2012, 03:43 PM
I think if they cut him after June 1st, they can elect to push the $3.6 mil to the following year or split it more evenly...like $2.4 this year and $2.4 next...

Dee Dub
01-19-2012, 03:48 PM
....As far as the money thing goes, it looks like the deal Colon signed last season was a 5 year deal with a $6M SB. That means that the Steelers must still account for $4.8M in pro rated SB.

The best way to save on next year's cap is to cut him after June 1. We save all of his $4.5M salary and only get charged his $1.2M SB which is already accounted for on the cap. We are then charged $3.6M dead money in 2013.....


I think if they cut him after June 1st, they can elect to push the $3.6 mil to the following year or split it more evenly...like $2.4 this year and $2.4 next...

Now were talkin. This makes my thought even better. I think it is foolish for the Steelers to think they could rely on Willie Colon who has been injured two full straight seasons.

Oviedo
01-19-2012, 03:50 PM
Since Marcus Gilbert is likely moving to LT, this may create a win-win situtation for the Steelers draft wise. I have been taking a long hard look at Zebrie Sanders (SKL gets credit for this :D ), and he is a solid RT who very well could come right in and start (like Gilbert did this tear). Because of the premium put on the LT those that are draft-able in round one are out of reach for the Steelers at 24. But a legit RT isnt. And quite frankly they may be even able to trade back a few spots and draft Zebrie Sanders along with acquiring another pick in round 2, 3, or 4. I am not a salary cap guy but I would think this would also free up "some" money by releasing Willie Colon. Too me, the more I look at this, the more I like it. I am not yet at 100% sold but I am starting to reach for my wallet.

Gilbert-Legursky-Pouncey-Foster-Sanders ( this may be the best O-line the Steelers have had in a long time).

Would love to hear some thoughts on this.

The OL you desribe is still weak at Guard and Ben would continue to a victum of pressure up the middle.

Colon is not going anywhere unless it is via an injury settlement. The cap hit wouldn't make sense.

Dee Dub
01-19-2012, 03:56 PM
Since Marcus Gilbert is likely moving to LT, this may create a win-win situtation for the Steelers draft wise. I have been taking a long hard look at Zebrie Sanders (SKL gets credit for this :D ), and he is a solid RT who very well could come right in and start (like Gilbert did this tear). Because of the premium put on the LT those that are draft-able in round one are out of reach for the Steelers at 24. But a legit RT isnt. And quite frankly they may be even able to trade back a few spots and draft Zebrie Sanders along with acquiring another pick in round 2, 3, or 4. I am not a salary cap guy but I would think this would also free up "some" money by releasing Willie Colon. Too me, the more I look at this, the more I like it. I am not yet at 100% sold but I am starting to reach for my wallet.

Gilbert-Legursky-Pouncey-Foster-Sanders ( this may be the best O-line the Steelers have had in a long time).

Would love to hear some thoughts on this.

The OL you desribe is still weak at Guard and Ben would continue to a victum of pressure up the middle.

Colon is not going anywhere unless it is via an injury settlement. The cap hit wouldn't make sense.

Well word from the Steelers is they are very happy with Legursky and Foster at guard and according to what my cap guy steeler.fan.in.t.o. says....cutting Colon after June 1 saves 4.5 million. How does that not make sense?

By the way anyone who thinks any team is going to solve all their offensive line problems in one off season is not thinking in reality. One piece at a time guys. Pouncey, Gilbert, Sanders and or Glenn is a step in a much better direction.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
01-19-2012, 04:08 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":27kgffys]Since Marcus Gilbert is likely moving to LT, this may create a win-win situtation for the Steelers draft wise. I have been taking a long hard look at Zebrie Sanders (SKL gets credit for this :D ), and he is a solid RT who very well could come right in and start (like Gilbert did this tear). Because of the premium put on the LT those that are draft-able in round one are out of reach for the Steelers at 24. But a legit RT isnt. And quite frankly they may be even able to trade back a few spots and draft Zebrie Sanders along with acquiring another pick in round 2, 3, or 4. I am not a salary cap guy but I would think this would also free up "some" money by releasing Willie Colon. Too me, the more I look at this, the more I like it. I am not yet at 100% sold but I am starting to reach for my wallet.

Gilbert-Legursky-Pouncey-Foster-Sanders ( this may be the best O-line the Steelers have had in a long time).

Would love to hear some thoughts on this.

The OL you desribe is still weak at Guard and Ben would continue to a victum of pressure up the middle.

Colon is not going anywhere unless it is via an injury settlement. The cap hit wouldn't make sense.

Well word from the Steelers is they are very happy with Legursky and Foster at guard and according to what my cap guy steeler.fan.in.t.o. says....cutting Colon after June 1 saves 4.5 million. How does that not make sense?

By the way anyone who thinks any team is going to solve all their offensive line problems in one off season is not thinking in reality. One piece at a time guys. Pouncey, Gilbert, Sanders and or Glenn is a step in a much better direction.[/quote:27kgffys]

5 mil of Rooney's money unearned...That's why Colon isn't going anywhere if healthy. Being over the cap isn't coming as a surprise to the Rooney's or Colbert. They had a plan in place last year or they wouldn't have given Colon, Woodley, Polamalu, & Timmons those contracts if they weren't in the plans. They will shave by restructuring those deals & others but the cuts will be coming from names like Scott, Battle, Smith, Allen, & McFadden.....And if others like Kemo, Farrior, Foote, & Ward don't restructure...They could be gone too.

Slapstick
01-19-2012, 04:14 PM
I think that cap hit is mistaken...

Colon got a $6 million bonus on a five year contract...that pro-rates at $1.2 million per year...

That leaves $4.8 mil...unless Colon's cap it is more than $9 million, the Steelers won't save anywhere near $4.5 million...

Dee Dub
01-19-2012, 04:16 PM
[quote=Oviedo][quote="Dee Dub":1s4up1e7]Since Marcus Gilbert is likely moving to LT, this may create a win-win situtation for the Steelers draft wise. I have been taking a long hard look at Zebrie Sanders (SKL gets credit for this :D ), and he is a solid RT who very well could come right in and start (like Gilbert did this tear). Because of the premium put on the LT those that are draft-able in round one are out of reach for the Steelers at 24. But a legit RT isnt. And quite frankly they may be even able to trade back a few spots and draft Zebrie Sanders along with acquiring another pick in round 2, 3, or 4. I am not a salary cap guy but I would think this would also free up "some" money by releasing Willie Colon. Too me, the more I look at this, the more I like it. I am not yet at 100% sold but I am starting to reach for my wallet.

Gilbert-Legursky-Pouncey-Foster-Sanders ( this may be the best O-line the Steelers have had in a long time).

Would love to hear some thoughts on this.

The OL you desribe is still weak at Guard and Ben would continue to a victum of pressure up the middle.

Colon is not going anywhere unless it is via an injury settlement. The cap hit wouldn't make sense.

Well word from the Steelers is they are very happy with Legursky and Foster at guard and according to what my cap guy steeler.fan.in.t.o. says....cutting Colon after June 1 saves 4.5 million. How does that not make sense?

By the way anyone who thinks any team is going to solve all their offensive line problems in one off season is not thinking in reality. One piece at a time guys. Pouncey, Gilbert, Sanders and or Glenn is a step in a much better direction.[/quote:1s4up1e7]

5 mil of Rooney's money unearned...That's why Colon isn't going anywhere if healthy. Being over the cap isn't coming as a surprise to the Rooney's or Colbert. They had a plan in place last year or they wouldn't have given Colon, Woodley, Polamalu, & Timmons those contracts if they weren't in the plans. They will shave by restructuring those deals & others but the cuts will be coming from names like Scott, Battle, Smith, Allen, & McFadden.....And if others like Kemo, Farrior, Foote, & Ward don't restructure...They could be gone too.[/quote:1s4up1e7]

Things change by each year. Last year the Steelers were coming off a Super Bowl appearance. This year its a one and done.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
01-19-2012, 04:26 PM
Things change by each year. Last year the Steelers were coming off a Super Bowl appearance. This year its a one and done.

I agree changes are coming. I think it is more in line of making vets move on. We all know Rooneys are "blue collar watch your dollar" peoples. They signed off on all those contracts last year because they felt they were good investments. Unless someone can't play football that they gave those new contracts to...I don't see them giving a guy 5 mil and sending him to the streets. We know the Rooneys...5 mil is alot of money to you & I and it is alot of money to the Rooneys. Kinda the thing that makes them predictable.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
01-19-2012, 05:37 PM
I think if they cut him after June 1st, they can elect to push the $3.6 mil to the following year or split it more evenly...like $2.4 this year and $2.4 next...

Unless the rules changed after the lockout (which I doubt) that is not an option. Releasing prior to June 1 means all the remaining SB charged this year, released after June 1 means only current year is charged and remainder the following year. Teams do not have the option to change the split.

The only time that it works out to a 50-50 split is if there is only one more year remaining, like if the Steelers decided to cut Colon prior to the 2014 season. Then $1.2M would be charged in 2014 and $1.2M in 2015.

Steelers rarely cut a guy with more than 1 extra year remaining. IIRC the only recent player I can remember is one of the awful Cs we had - either Hartwig or Mahan.

StarSpangledSteeler
01-19-2012, 07:31 PM
I have been tracking Sanders all year. The guy can play. Huge strong hands, long arms, and locks on like velcro. I believe he presents a solid value at 1.24 and fills a position of need. He has proven he can play left tackle as well as right tackle. He's certainly better than J. Scott or Hills or Essex and within a year will be better than Starks.

I would much rather draft a legit tackle who might be able to play some guard. Than a legit guard who might be able to play some tackle. The latter typically CANNOT play tackle, so it weakens two positions by switching. Plus those types can usually be found in middle rounds whereas legit tackles cannot.

steelerkeylargo
01-19-2012, 10:34 PM
Since Marcus Gilbert is likely moving to LT, this may create a win-win situtation for the Steelers draft wise. I have been taking a long hard look at Zebrie Sanders (SKL gets credit for this :D ), and he is a solid RT who very well could come right in and start (like Gilbert did this tear). Because of the premium put on the LT those that are draft-able in round one are out of reach for the Steelers at 24. But a legit RT isnt. And quite frankly they may be even able to trade back a few spots and draft Zebrie Sanders along with acquiring another pick in round 2, 3, or 4. I am not a salary cap guy but I would think this would also free up "some" money by releasing Willie Colon. Too me, the more I look at this, the more I like it. I am not yet at 100% sold but I am starting to reach for my wallet.

Gilbert-Legursky-Pouncey-Foster-Sanders ( this may be the best O-line the Steelers have had in a long time).

Would love to hear some thoughts on this.

Thanks for the shout out here Dub. Sanders is a player I really liked as a junior when he played RT. After the Noles LT Andrew Datko went down this year they moved Sanders over and he didn't fare as well. Having said that I still think Sanders is a better long term prospect than Gilbert and would have no issues drafting him on a trade back scenario. 1/24 is a bit to high.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
01-20-2012, 01:52 AM
I think that cap hit is mistaken...

Colon got a $6 million bonus on a five year contract...that pro-rates at $1.2 million per year...

That leaves $4.8 mil...unless Colon's cap it is more than $9 million, the Steelers won't save anywhere near $4.5 million...

They can save $4.5M in 2012 if they are willing to roll $3.6M of cap hit into 2013.

I don't see them doing this, I don't remember them ever doing this in the past, but it is possible.

SS Laser
01-20-2012, 01:57 AM
So who is a better RT coming out? Sanders or Glenn? Or is Glenn a better guard that can play RT if needed?

If Colon is coming back Glenn might be the better idea if he can come in and play guard right away. Then if Colon is hurt again or not up to the task. Move Glenn to RT.

But what happens if Gilbert can't handle LT and is only a RT?

I know everyone says it will not happen, But I hope if Colon struggles at RT after 2 years of not playing and injuries he can play guard.

Chadman
01-20-2012, 02:17 AM
How many of you believe the Steelers will go into the season with a 2nd year player at LT & a rookie starting at RT?


Colon will be back at RT, Chadman nearly guarentees it.

SS Laser
01-20-2012, 02:36 AM
How many of you believe the Steelers will go into the season with a 2nd year player at LT & a rookie starting at RT?

Colon will be back at RT, Chadman nearly guarentees it.

What did the steelers do this year? Yes Colon was there for the start. Then bam hurt. Steelers had a "back up" guy at LT in Scott and a rookie at RT. I think Gilbert is better then Scott, well I hope so. I also have no faith in Colon being himself or not getting hurt again.

I do agree that when camp starts Colon will be #1 at RT. But no reason not to bring in a guy who could replace him if hurt or next year. And to give him a push in camp.

That is why I like Glenn. Could be a very good guard and a good RT from what I read and fans here say. If Colon fails there is a plan in place. I guess if Scott is around he could be the RT. But I don't have faith in him. Scott was a good fill in at LT for the super bowl year then stinks this year? :wft :2c

NJ-STEELER
01-20-2012, 02:51 AM
I think that cap hit is mistaken...

Colon got a $6 million bonus on a five year contract...that pro-rates at $1.2 million per year...

That leaves $4.8 mil...unless Colon's cap it is more than $9 million, the Steelers won't save anywhere near $4.5 million...

They can save $4.5M in 2012 if they are willing to roll $3.6M of cap hit into 2013.

I don't see them doing this, I don't remember them ever doing this in the past, but it is possible.

simmons??

StarSpangledSteeler
01-20-2012, 07:36 AM
How many of you believe the Steelers will go into the season with a 2nd year player at LT & a rookie starting at RT?


Colon will be back at RT, Chadman nearly guarentees it.

How many of you believe Colon will stay healthy at RT this season?

Colon will get injured, SSS nearly guarantees it.

(And when he does, who is his back up?)

Slapstick
01-20-2012, 09:57 AM
Colon had two season ending injuries, but they were radically different and more a result of terrible coincidence than anything else...

For the people pimping Max Starks to come back, he also suffered two different season ending injuries this year and last, like Colon...Max's injury timing was good enough that people here tend to forget that...

Slapstick
01-20-2012, 10:09 AM
I think that cap hit is mistaken...

Colon got a $6 million bonus on a five year contract...that pro-rates at $1.2 million per year...

That leaves $4.8 mil...unless Colon's cap it is more than $9 million, the Steelers won't save anywhere near $4.5 million...

They can save $4.5M in 2012 if they are willing to roll $3.6M of cap hit into 2013.

I don't see them doing this, I don't remember them ever doing this in the past, but it is possible.

Oh, so we're making the post-June 1st cut assumption...I get it...

Personally, the only post-June 1st cut that I see the Steelers making is possibly Kemoeatu this year...

The other positions (WR - Hines, CB - McFadden) there seems to be quality young players on the roster...I think the Steelers will go through the draft and free agency to see if they can come up with a player at OG...they will have some offseason workouts/minicamps to evaluate what they have and decide if Kemo is expendable or not prior to June...

RuthlessBurgher
01-20-2012, 01:21 PM
So who is a better RT coming out? Sanders or Glenn? Or is Glenn a better guard that can play RT if needed?

They have completely different body types. Both are 6'5" but Sanders is listed at 307 lbs. while Glenn is listed at 348 lbs. Knowing our teams preferences, they tend to prefer road grader types at guard and right tackle. I think that Glenn fits that mold better (a potential starting guard who could fill in at RT if injuries strike).

http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/fsu/graphics/auto/sanders_41610.jpghttp://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/249/812/cordy_display_image.jpg?1275958777

Oviedo
01-20-2012, 01:26 PM
So who is a better RT coming out? Sanders or Glenn? Or is Glenn a better guard that can play RT if needed?

They have completely different body types. Both are 6'5" but Sanders is listed at 307 lbs. while Glenn is listed at 348 lbs. Knowing our teams preferences, they tend to prefer road grader types at guard and right tackle. I think that Glenn fits that mold better (a potential starting guard who could fill in at RT if injuries strike).

http://grfx.cstv.com/schools/fsu/graphics/auto/sanders_41610.jpghttp://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/249/812/cordy_display_image.jpg?1275958777


Glenn is #1 in my Mock. Start him inside and "grow him" to the outside when Colon gets injured again. Glenn has way more flexibility than Sanders.

StarSpangledSteeler
01-20-2012, 06:47 PM
Colon had two season ending injuries, but they were radically different and more a result of terrible coincidence than anything else...

For the people pimping Max Starks to come back, he also suffered two different season ending injuries this year and last, like Colon...Max's injury timing was good enough that people here tend to forget that...

Just so I understand... Are you saying you think Colon will stay healthy this year?