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steeler_fan_in_t.o.
01-12-2012, 11:27 AM
I know that Arians is the usual whipping buy when it comes to the woes of the offense. There are, however, many issues - including Arians - that the O suffered from this past season. My question is this: Fixing which of these problems would give the offense its greatest chance to improve next year?

ikestops85
01-12-2012, 11:39 AM
I think you might want to add an option about Ben not taking the check down and always going for the big play.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
01-12-2012, 11:43 AM
I think you might want to add an option about Ben not taking the check down and always going for the big play.

You know, when I originally thought about this I did have that in my mind as an option.

steelblood
01-12-2012, 11:54 AM
If I could do one thing, I'd add talent to the offensive line. Kugler is a good coach imho. He has coached up our talent for the most part. Further, in the playoffs the last two years, we have run the ball well (when the running is usually quite difficult). Give him another high draft pick or two and allow him to help develop better running plays for the playbook.

Oviedo
01-12-2012, 12:04 PM
Arians will never be mistaken for Bill Walsh but put an offensive line on the field that can consistently execute and our offense will be much better with Arians.

I think Arians has taken this offense as far as he is capable but I will give him his due for implementing an offense that is relevant in today's NFL.

Don't underestimate the challenge that Ben is for Arians or ould be for any other OC. Ben loves to push the ball down the field and in that regard he is his own worst enemy. If he would ever buy in to a quick timing, short passing game our offense would be unstoppable with the talent we have.

steelz09
01-12-2012, 12:08 PM
Ben is the MVP of the team and likewise the offense. I know Brown won that award and he had an awesome year (major props to him) but lets be honest, without Ben, we are a .500 team and not a playoff contender.

Arians is just flat-out hard headed. He's had his moments but overall, he is not very good. Poor in game adjustments, not taking what the defense gives him, and not playing to your personnel is his biggest faults.

With that being said, Ben and Arians are the problem. To further clarify, Ben IN COMBINATION with Arians is the problem. The simple solution is remove Arians and keep Ben.

steelz09
01-12-2012, 12:14 PM
Arians will never be mistaken for Bill Walsh but put an offensive line on the field that can consistently execute and our offense will be much better with Arians.

I think Arians has taken this offense as far as he is capable but I will give him his due for implementing an offense that is relevant in today's NFL.

Don't underestimate the challenge that Ben is for Arians or ould be for any other OC. Ben loves to push the ball down the field and in that regard he is his own worst enemy. If he would ever buy in to a quick timing, short passing game our offense would be unstoppable with the talent we have.

That is kind of my point exactly. The love fest between Ben and Arians is overboard. Ben is his worst enemy a lot but it's the coaches responbility to change certain things. The owners own, coaches coach and players play. It's one thing to be friends with your boss but the line in responsibilities still need to be there. I don't think it is between Arians and Ben.

I know Ben has a mancrush for Arians but the bottom line is that he would be healthier and more succesfful with a offensive coordinator that doesn't allow him to do whatever the hell he wants.

focosteeler
01-12-2012, 12:18 PM
I think the O-line is the problem. If they could dominate the line of scrimmage I think our O would be amazing. Imagine if we could run the ball for 200 ypg, if 2nd/3rd and short was automatic...add Ben and our recievers into that and we would be unstoppable.

steelz09
01-12-2012, 12:24 PM
I think the O-line is the problem. If they could dominate the line of scrimmage I think our O would be amazing. Imagine if we could run the ball for 200 ypg, if 2nd/3rd and short was automatic...add Ben and our recievers into that and we would be unstoppable.

Our INTERIOR o-line needs correction.... in a BAD way. However, when you don't utilize a short passing game, your asking for it. And your throwing your o-line to the wolves.

We need a top-tier left guard.... then move Colon to RG.

LT - Starks
LG - Rookie
C - Pouncey
RG - Colon
RT - Gilbert

Slapstick
01-12-2012, 12:30 PM
I would not hold my breath waiting for Starks to come back next year...

An ACL in a 190 lb WR or 220 lb RB is one thing...

A torn ACL in a 360 lb lineman is another...I don't even want to think about Hampton...

MeetJoeGreene
01-12-2012, 12:36 PM
I went with all of the above.

It wasn't all of the above all of the time... but each of those DID contribute to our woes at different times. They were all problems.

And the checkdown thing.


And I agree with slapstick.. don't hold your breath on Max and Snack.

feltdizz
01-12-2012, 12:48 PM
Arians will never be mistaken for Bill Walsh but put an offensive line on the field that can consistently execute and our offense will be much better with Arians.

I think Arians has taken this offense as far as he is capable but I will give him his due for implementing an offense that is relevant in today's NFL.

Don't underestimate the challenge that Ben is for Arians or ould be for any other OC. Ben loves to push the ball down the field and in that regard he is his own worst enemy. If he would ever buy in to a quick timing, short passing game our offense would be unstoppable with the talent we have.

That is kind of my point exactly. The love fest between Ben and Arians is overboard. Ben is his worst enemy a lot but it's the coaches responbility to change certain things. The owners own, coaches coach and players play. It's one thing to be friends with your boss but the line in responsibilities still need to be there. I don't think it is between Arians and Ben.

I know Ben has a mancrush for Arians but the bottom line is that he would be healthier and more succesfful with a offensive coordinator that doesn't allow him to do whatever the hell he wants.

That isn't happening in today's NFL. We can talk all we want about bringing in an OC who will change Ben but the last guy to challenge him is in AZ and the other one retired.

Look at Aaron Rodgers was on the sideline calling plays for Matt Flynn... you can't expect coaches who make less then the players to have control over these guys. It's up to Ben to submit to the OC and the game plan and I don't think he is willing to do that because he has been successful doing it his way.

rockonsteel
01-12-2012, 01:02 PM
Arians will never be mistaken for Bill Walsh but put an offensive line on the field that can consistently execute and our offense will be much better with Arians.

I think Arians has taken this offense as far as he is capable but I will give him his due for implementing an offense that is relevant in today's NFL.

Don't underestimate the challenge that Ben is for Arians or ould be for any other OC. Ben loves to push the ball down the field and in that regard he is his own worst enemy. If he would ever buy in to a quick timing, short passing game our offense would be unstoppable with the talent we have.

That is kind of my point exactly. The love fest between Ben and Arians is overboard. Ben is his worst enemy a lot but it's the coaches responbility to change certain things. The owners own, coaches coach and players play. It's one thing to be friends with your boss but the line in responsibilities still need to be there. I don't think it is between Arians and Ben.

I know Ben has a mancrush for Arians but the bottom line is that he would be healthier and more succesfful with a offensive coordinator that doesn't allow him to do whatever the hell he wants.

That isn't happening in today's NFL. We can talk all we want about bringing in an OC who will change Ben but the last guy to challenge him is in AZ and the other one retired.

Look at Aaron Rodgers was on the sideline calling plays for Matt Flynn... you can't expect coaches who make less then the players to have control over these guys. It's up to Ben to submit to the OC and the game plan and I don't think he is willing to do that because he has been successful doing it his way.


Aaron Rodgers used to have the same problem as Ben. Holding the ball too long and taking unnecessary punishment from self-inflicted sacks. Mike McCarthy tweaked the system and shortened Rodgers drops and read times, but left his alone ability to extend plays alone. Now, he's an absolute beast. Ben needs somebody willing to challenge his bone-headed-ness, and do the same thing GB did with Rodgers. Bruce ain't got the cajones to do that. Ben and Bruce are both accomplices in the unsolved case of "The Mysterious Underachieving Offense".

Rockon

feltdizz
01-12-2012, 01:19 PM
Aaron Rodgers used to have the same problem as Ben. Holding the ball too long and taking unnecessary punishment from self-inflicted sacks. Mike McCarthy tweaked the system and shortened Rodgers drops and read times, but left his alone ability to extend plays alone. Now, he's an absolute beast. Ben needs somebody willing to challenge his bone-headed-ness, and do the same thing GB did with Rodgers. Bruce ain't got the cajones to do that. Ben and Bruce are both accomplices in the unsolved case of "The Mysterious Underachieving Offense".

Rockon

McCarthy may have tweaked the system but Rodgers bought into it 100%. Can we say the same about Ben? Do you honestly think Ben would buy into it?

"I only know one way to play coach"

Ben wouldn't even run the plays correctly in practice when Whiz was the OC. I remember Ben saying he would go sandlot in practice to get WR's used to his style of play.

Rodgers is also concussion prone and a lot smaller then Ben.... if Ben see's a blitzing LB he tends to absorb the hit and then throw while every other productive QB would throw it away or dump it underneath.

grotonsteel
01-12-2012, 03:09 PM
When your O-line can't block 3 D-Linemen for 5 sec you know where the problem is.

Oviedo
01-12-2012, 04:20 PM
Arians will never be mistaken for Bill Walsh but put an offensive line on the field that can consistently execute and our offense will be much better with Arians.

I think Arians has taken this offense as far as he is capable but I will give him his due for implementing an offense that is relevant in today's NFL.

Don't underestimate the challenge that Ben is for Arians or ould be for any other OC. Ben loves to push the ball down the field and in that regard he is his own worst enemy. If he would ever buy in to a quick timing, short passing game our offense would be unstoppable with the talent we have.

That is kind of my point exactly. The love fest between Ben and Arians is overboard. Ben is his worst enemy a lot but it's the coaches responbility to change certain things. The owners own, coaches coach and players play. It's one thing to be friends with your boss but the line in responsibilities still need to be there. I don't think it is between Arians and Ben.

I know Ben has a mancrush for Arians but the bottom line is that he would be healthier and more succesfful with a offensive coordinator that doesn't allow him to do whatever the hell he wants.

That isn't happening in today's NFL. We can talk all we want about bringing in an OC who will change Ben but the last guy to challenge him is in AZ and the other one retired.

Look at Aaron Rodgers was on the sideline calling plays for Matt Flynn... you can't expect coaches who make less then the players to have control over these guys. It's up to Ben to submit to the OC and the game plan and I don't think he is willing to do that because he has been successful doing it his way.


Reality. Do you think Dtrew Brees, Tom Brady and Peyton Manning don't get what they want with their offenses. It is the nature of having a franchise QB.

This is not Pee Wee where the players are intimidated by their coaches.

rockonsteel
01-12-2012, 04:28 PM
Aaron Rodgers used to have the same problem as Ben. Holding the ball too long and taking unnecessary punishment from self-inflicted sacks. Mike McCarthy tweaked the system and shortened Rodgers drops and read times, but left his alone ability to extend plays alone. Now, he's an absolute beast. Ben needs somebody willing to challenge his bone-headed-ness, and do the same thing GB did with Rodgers. Bruce ain't got the cajones to do that. Ben and Bruce are both accomplices in the unsolved case of "The Mysterious Underachieving Offense".

Rockon

McCarthy may have tweaked the system but Rodgers bought into it 100%. Can we say the same about Ben? Do you honestly think Ben would buy into it?

"I only know one way to play coach"

Ben wouldn't even run the plays correctly in practice when Whiz was the OC. I remember Ben saying he would go sandlot in practice to get WR's used to his style of play.

Rodgers is also concussion prone and a lot smaller then Ben.... if Ben see's a blitzing LB he tends to absorb the hit and then throw while every other productive QB would throw it away or dump it underneath.

Then maybe Arians is not doing a good enough job selling it to him then. Maybe they need to let another salesman give it a shot. Look, I don't mean to sound like I'm blaming everything that ails this team on Arians, but dammit he needs to be held to the fire for his part, which is my opinion is very major, and I want my pound of flesh! He needs to go.

Seriously, though, how much responsibility does BA bear for the Steelers offensive woes, and when does he get held accountable?

Rockon

hawaiiansteel
01-12-2012, 04:57 PM
I think the O-line is the problem. If they could dominate the line of scrimmage I think our O would be amazing. Imagine if we could run the ball for 200 ypg, if 2nd/3rd and short was automatic...add Ben and our recievers into that and we would be unstoppable.


:Agree

I picked our OL as the main problem, we need an upgrade at OG badly.

feltdizz
01-12-2012, 05:01 PM
Aaron Rodgers used to have the same problem as Ben. Holding the ball too long and taking unnecessary punishment from self-inflicted sacks. Mike McCarthy tweaked the system and shortened Rodgers drops and read times, but left his alone ability to extend plays alone. Now, he's an absolute beast. Ben needs somebody willing to challenge his bone-headed-ness, and do the same thing GB did with Rodgers. Bruce ain't got the cajones to do that. Ben and Bruce are both accomplices in the unsolved case of "The Mysterious Underachieving Offense".

Rockon

McCarthy may have tweaked the system but Rodgers bought into it 100%. Can we say the same about Ben? Do you honestly think Ben would buy into it?

"I only know one way to play coach"

Ben wouldn't even run the plays correctly in practice when Whiz was the OC. I remember Ben saying he would go sandlot in practice to get WR's used to his style of play.

Rodgers is also concussion prone and a lot smaller then Ben.... if Ben see's a blitzing LB he tends to absorb the hit and then throw while every other productive QB would throw it away or dump it underneath.

Then maybe Arians is not doing a good enough job selling it to him then. Maybe they need to let another salesman give it a shot. Look, I don't mean to sound like I'm blaming everything that ails this team on Arians, but dammit he needs to be held to the fire for his part, which is my opinion is very major, and I want my pound of flesh! He needs to go.

Seriously, though, how much responsibility does BA bear for the Steelers offensive woes, and when does he get held accountable?

Rockon

The bubble screens, lack of Redman behind this OL and the fade routes inside the 5...

I say about 25% of the blame is on Arians...

I can't blame him for Moore, Hines, Ben and Miller fumbling at critical times...
I can't blame him for Ben deciding to throw to triple covered Wallace when Miller is wide open underneath on 3rd and 4.

I can't blame him for the horrible OL and I can't blame him for the injuries...

steeler_george
01-12-2012, 06:49 PM
I think the O-line is the problem. If they could dominate the line of scrimmage I think our O would be amazing. Imagine if we could run the ball for 200 ypg, if 2nd/3rd and short was automatic...add Ben and our recievers into that and we would be unstoppable.


:Agree

I picked our OL as the main problem, we need an upgrade at OG badly.
When your O-line can't block 3 D-Linemen for 5 sec you know where the problem is.

I honestly believe, if Ben didn't get stripped sacked on final drive against Denver, we would of won in regulation.

Like how ever says it starts in the trenches on both sides of the ball. Just imagine Mendy and Redman getting to the line of scrimmage without having to avoid a defender ever time. They would be get good runs for sure, able to set up the play action and deep outs.

Now would the defense dare put 9 in the box or play cover 2 to avoid our fast deep threats in Wallace, Brown, Sanders?

Chadman
01-12-2012, 11:10 PM
If the OL could just be good enough to produce a consistant running game, chances are the rest of the Offense would come together.

It would allow for more varied playcalling in short to medium range downs.

It would improve the RZ play.

It would take a deeper defender away & have him play closer to the line, potentially opening the deeper field to guys like Wallace..


Getting an interior blocker that can run block would go a LONG way to helping this Offense.