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View Full Version : Anybody else wondering where Lawrence Timmons has been?



TallyStiller
12-20-2011, 12:51 PM
It was kind of expected that Timmons was going to step up and become the next great Steeler linebacker. We were looking for splash plays - forced fumbles, picks, sacks... and paid him handsomely based on that expectation. He was supposed to possess a unique skill set - safety speed and linebacker size - that would help him become the new wild card in the Steeler D, augmenting or even supplanting Troy in that role, some said.

In watching last night's game, it seemed to me that his physique - and his cover skills - looked about the same as James Farrior's... which brings me to my question. Has Timmons bulked up too much? It seems like he's carrying an extra 15 or 20 pounds, and to me it's robbing him of the skill set that was supposed to make him a star. Time to call Jenny Craig? Is he going to be another Levon Kirkland? Do they change his workout regimen and help him slim down? Or have they taken a high first round pick and effectively turned him into a lead footed heavy hitting inside thumper the like of which can be easily had on the second day of every draft?

steelz09
12-20-2011, 12:58 PM
The guy has always been "expectations" and "potential". I'm really tired of the love fest that people have with Timmons. Look at it objectively and he doesn't deserve all the credit he gets. I would say he's average.. big deal.

I don't know the terms of his contract but I hope it's not near top 10-15 LB money.

Lebsteel
12-20-2011, 01:06 PM
Said it before, but Paul Posluszny should have been the pick...after four years, compare the stats. I also am tired of the POTENTIAL of Timmons...show up for once this year and realize that potential!

phillyesq
12-20-2011, 01:15 PM
For a guy that is supposed to be an asset in coverage, he routinely gets toasted by opposing TEs.

Although he made a few plays in the run game, Timmons has probably been the biggest disappointment on the defense.

steelz09
12-20-2011, 01:20 PM
For a guy that is supposed to be an asset in coverage, he routinely gets toasted by opposing TEs.

Although he made a few plays in the run game, Timmons has probably been the biggest disappointment on the defense.

No kidding :)

0 Force Fumbles
0 Sacks
1 INT (that fell right into his lap)


Now, that's impressive. But as a 5-year pro, he's has all the "potential" to be great. :roll:

feltdizz
12-20-2011, 01:25 PM
It was kind of expected that Timmons was going to step up and become the next great Steeler linebacker. We were looking for splash plays - forced fumbles, picks, sacks... and paid him handsomely based on that expectation. He was supposed to possess a unique skill set - safety speed and linebacker size - that would help him become the new wild card in the Steeler D, augmenting or even supplanting Troy in that role, some said.

In watching last night's game, it seemed to me that his physique - and his cover skills - looked about the same as James Farrior's... which brings me to my question. Has Timmons bulked up too much? It seems like he's carrying an extra 15 or 20 pounds, and to me it's robbing him of the skill set that was supposed to make him a star. Time to call Jenny Craig? Is he going to be another Levon Kirkland? Do they change his workout regimen and help him slim down? Or have they taken a high first round pick and effectively turned him into a lead footed heavy hitting inside thumper the like of which can be easily had on the second day of every draft?

I think Timmon's may have bulked up. I can't explain this drop in production after last year. I expected a lot more from him.

Mend is also a guy who bulked up and is slower.

Keyplay1
12-20-2011, 02:12 PM
Was he the guy that was covering Heath Miller and did such a great job on him, pretty much taking him out of the game. :) Well, he sure looked like the Timmons of a few years ago when he was frequently used in that capacity.

Anyhow, it occurred to me that maybe the Steelers will not have to use a bunch of #1 and 2 draft picks on ILB's in the next few years. Are any of these SF LB's going to be FA's. They sure seemed to be overloaded with them.

pittpete
12-20-2011, 02:12 PM
I keyed on Timmons for a whole lot of that game last night.
On 2 consectuve plays he blitzed and Gore stoned him on both.
He missed several tackles including the one where Farrior penetrated deep into the backfield and Timmons just missed the tackle for a loss and the niners gained 2 yards.
Just not the player he was last year IMHO

skyhawk
12-20-2011, 03:27 PM
Timmons really misses Aaron Smith. That guy could open things up for any linebacker.

Look at Timmons drop off in production since Smith has been gone (his move to OLB not withstanding).

skyhawk
12-20-2011, 03:29 PM
Was he the guy that was covering Heath Miller and did such a great job on him, pretty much taking him out of the game. :) Well, he sure looked like the Timmons of a few years ago when he was frequently used in that capacity.

Anyhow, it occurred to me that maybe the Steelers will not have to use a bunch of #1 and 2 draft picks on ILB's in the next few years. Are any of these SF LB's going to be FA's. They sure seemed to be overloaded with them.

I also saw where that LB was covering Miller late in the game. He was just plain faceguarding the guy. Miller did have some good catches/moves in the game though.

Oviedo
12-20-2011, 04:02 PM
Said it before, but Paul Posluszny should have been the pick...after four years, compare the stats. I also am tired of the POTENTIAL of Timmons...show up for once this year and realize that potential!


Yea, Posluszny has been such a difference maker in Buffalo and now Jacksonville. :roll:

The only thing I saw from him last Thursday was mostly getting run over or chasing after the ball carrier after they got past the LOS.

feltdizz
12-20-2011, 04:04 PM
Said it before, but Paul Posluszny should have been the pick...after four years, compare the stats. I also am tired of the POTENTIAL of Timmons...show up for once this year and realize that potential!


Yea, Posluszny has been such a difference maker in Buffalo and now Jacksonville. :roll:

The only thing I saw from him last Thursday was mostly getting run over or chasing after the ball carrier after they got past the LOS.

Poz isn't a bad player but I think a lot of LB's on losing teams end up with nice stats because they are on the field all day long.

Oviedo
12-20-2011, 04:06 PM
For a guy that is supposed to be an asset in coverage, he routinely gets toasted by opposing TEs.

Although he made a few plays in the run game, Timmons has probably been the biggest disappointment on the defense.

Timmons is third on the team in tackles and unlike Harrison and Woodley he can least be there every game. You can't complain unless you know what he is being asked to do. I've seen him covering TEs much this season probably because Farrior can't anymore and I don't recall him being toasted on a regular basis. Most of the TEs that are being successful are going against our DBs.

Oviedo
12-20-2011, 04:08 PM
Said it before, but Paul Posluszny should have been the pick...after four years, compare the stats. I also am tired of the POTENTIAL of Timmons...show up for once this year and realize that potential!


Yea, Posluszny has been such a difference maker in Buffalo and now Jacksonville. :roll:

The only thing I saw from him last Thursday was mostly getting run over or chasing after the ball carrier after they got past the LOS.

Poz isn't a bad player but I think a lot of LB's on losing teams end up with nice stats because they are on the field all day long.


Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner. When you defense can't get off the field of course you are going to have more tackle. It is a simple matter of increased opportunity.

Poz isn't a bad player (IMO he is a Larry Foote clone), but he also isn't a difference maker by any stretch of the imagination.

Eddie Spaghetti
12-20-2011, 04:12 PM
can the timmons apologists at least admit he has not lived up to his new contract?

like others have said, I'm sick of hearing about his potential.

the dude plays on roller skates and takes himself out of way too many plays. All he does is chase and gets beaten routinely by other teams TE's.

feltdizz
12-20-2011, 04:13 PM
can the timmons apologists at least admit he has not lived up to his new contract?

like others have said, I'm sick of hearing about his potential.

the dude plays on roller skates and takes himself out of way too many plays. All he does is chase and gets beaten routinely by other teams TE's.

He hasn't lived up to his contract... yet.

phillyesq
12-20-2011, 04:20 PM
For a guy that is supposed to be an asset in coverage, he routinely gets toasted by opposing TEs.

Although he made a few plays in the run game, Timmons has probably been the biggest disappointment on the defense.

Timmons is third on the team in tackles and unlike Harrison and Woodley he can least be there every game. You can't complain unless you know what he is being asked to do. I've seen him covering TEs much this season probably because Farrior can't anymore and I don't recall him being toasted on a regular basis. Most of the TEs that are being successful are going against our DBs.

He is just a handful of tackles ahead of Farrior, who rotates with Foote. Further, he plays ILB. You'd have a hard time finding an ILB that isn't among the team leaders in tackles.

Timmons had coverage on Vernon Davis on the TD. Against the Browns, Timmons got beat by Evan Moore, setting up the Browns at the goalline.

Timmons had a few decent stretches in five seasons with the Steelers, but has never lived up to his potential. His most effectieve season was when he rotated with Larry Foote, letting Foote do the dirty work against the run, and then coming in fresh and playing in passing situations.

Bottom line, Timmons is being paid to be a playmaker this year, and he has not made any splash plays. I don't know his specific assignment on each play, but I'm pretty sure that he can't blame his assignments on the fact that he has no sacks this year. Woodley and Harrison have both missed games, yet both have made more impact plays then Timmons.

SteelCrazy
12-20-2011, 05:03 PM
The guy is a 5 year veteran. There is no more potential to be had from him. He is what he is....

3rd leading tackler behind Troy (83), Ryan, (91), with 76......0 sacks, 0 forced fumbles, 4 pd, and 1 interception. He over runs more plays then he makes and has little strength, so he needs to drop any extra weight. OLB is not a strong position for him and at ILB he isnt much better.

Jason Worilds looks like money 1 outta 3 games, so I'm not convinced he is the answer either at OLB.

phillyesq
12-20-2011, 06:15 PM
can the timmons apologists at least admit he has not lived up to his new contract?

like others have said, I'm sick of hearing about his potential.

the dude plays on roller skates and takes himself out of way too many plays. All he does is chase and gets beaten routinely by other teams TE's.

He hasn't lived up to his contract... yet.

Nor has he lived up to his draft status. Yet.

Dee Dub
12-20-2011, 06:50 PM
The guy has always been "expectations" and "potential". I'm really tired of the love fest that people have with Timmons. Look at it objectively and he doesn't deserve all the credit he gets. I would say he's average.. big deal.

I don't know the terms of his contract but I hope it's not near top 10-15 LB money.

I know one thing, you put him or any LB one on one with Vernon Davis and you can expect them to fail.

Lebsteel
12-20-2011, 06:56 PM
Said it before, but Paul Posluszny should have been the pick...after four years, compare the stats. I also am tired of the POTENTIAL of Timmons...show up for once this year and realize that potential!


Yea, Posluszny has been such a difference maker in Buffalo and now Jacksonville. :roll:

The only thing I saw from him last Thursday was mostly getting run over or chasing after the ball carrier after they got past the LOS.
Hey, you can't fault Poz, maybe he is simply doing what he was asked to do. :roll:

NJ-STEELER
12-20-2011, 07:04 PM
On 2 consectuve plays he blitzed and Gore stoned him on both.


i dont think he's had a sack yet in his career where he has to beat a RB, TE, OL picking him up.

his 1 on 1 rush skills are putrid

only times he's had sacks IIRC are when he comes free

steelz09
12-20-2011, 07:44 PM
Timmons is currently tied with many others for 112th in the league in sacks and tied for 92 in the league for Force Fumbles (FF)

... but he's is a future HOFer if the credentials are "potential" splash plays.

TallyStiller
12-20-2011, 09:30 PM
Point is, Timmons was supposed to be the linebacker version of Vernon Davis, a big guy who could run to the point where he could stay with people in coverage. That's the type of linebacker that's hard to find, and crucial to have in today's NFL.

Frankly, when I look at Paul Posluszny, I see that big, slow, plodding run stuffer that is dime a dozen at the ILB position... which is what Timmons is looking and playing like right now. Not a BAD player... but not a DIFFERENCE MAKER. Kind of a surer tackling version of Larry Foote - great if you got him in the 4th round, not so much if he was the 15th overall pick.

So, to my question... does he reacquire some speed if he loses some of the bulk? I think it was put well by one of the posters here who said Timmons was great a few years back as a part time player rotating with Foote. He probably HAD to add the bulk in order to stay on the field full time, but I fear he's compromised his effectiveness in doing so. I think what we see is what we get going forward.

williar
12-20-2011, 10:28 PM
Add me to the, disappointed in Timmons, list. I was truly suprised he got that contract. To think Patrick Willis and Darelle Revis was in sniffing distance during that draft. I think we might have been better off drafting Leon Hall, who went #16.

Chadman
12-20-2011, 11:42 PM
Well, you can officially put Chadman in the "Timmons-Apologists" list.

Here's the thing- name 1, yes, just 1, Steeler front 7 defender that has played up to last years standard.

In fact, Chadman can think of only 2 players on Defense that are noticably better than last year on the roster- Willie Gay & Keenan Lewis- and that may be more to do with how bad they were last year than anything else.

The whole Defense has been a disappointment. Not sure why- but generally when things don't work out "Splash-wise" it's due to being beaten in the non-Splash plays. Line Of Scrimmage type stuff. You know- the spot where the Steelers are converting from OLD to YOUNG. Keisel, Hampton & Smith making way for Hood, Heyward & possibly McLendon. The new guys don't dominate the way the old guys used to- and at this point in their careers, that is no surprise. Time will tell if Hood & Heyward ever achieve the level of play Smith & Keisel reached- signs look good- but their ability to draw double blockers isn't as good as the old guard over the last 5 years. This leaves more blockers free for the likes of Timmons, Woodley, Farrior & Harrison. So their drop-off is likely a result of that.

Has Timmons played as well as last year? No, not at all. Last year he really emerged- have we all forgotten his level of play last year? Chadman sees everyone saying his best year was the year he rotated with Foote- find that hard to believe- last season he was very strong.

Farrior is a shadow of his former self. He no longer commands the blocking he used to. Harrison & Woodley have missed significant playing time, and their replacements have been kids- Worilds & Carter- who at this point in their careers won't draw the extra blocker.

So the fact that Timmons makes less 'splash plays' is not surprising. Disappointing? Sure. It's a pity he can't drag the rest of the Defense along with him & make them great. It's a pity his level of play doesn't elevate the rest of the performances of his team mates. That said- his skill set is really designed to feed off the guys around him- as noted, he's not overly strong & really excels in space- not in traffic. So if the other 10 guys aren't playing at the level required, yes, Timmons will get shown up.

Chadman has warned of this happening for a couple of years- the Steelers Defense is going to suffer a drop-off soon, simply because we are about to experience 'the transition' of old to new- the FO have allowed KEY players to play on past their primes with little to no up-and-coming youth to replace them in place. Hood & Heyward are probably 2 years too late. Where's the dominant NT to replace Hampton? Where's the young ILB to replace Farrior? Where's the up & coming FS to replace Ryan Clark?

What we are currently seeing is young guys that are not quite up to DOMINATING being asked to pick up the slack of former great players who are now struggling to COMPETE. Effectively, this means we have taken the top off the EXCELLENCE of the Steelers Defense, and are left with a Defense that, while competitive, doesn't play at an ELITE level- more an adequate level- until the younger guys are at the top of their game. Hence the reason we see the Steelers play well for large chunks of the game, but come up short when they need to really stand up. They simply don't have that 'next level' yet, in some cases, or any more in others.

So while it's easy to say Timmons isn't playing up to his contract, perhaps we should look at the reasons for it, not just giggle with glee & tout the "I told you so" lines that have been harboured ever since he was 'drafted too high' by a lot of this board's ideals.

:tt2

fordfixer
12-20-2011, 11:51 PM
where has Lawrence Timmons has been?

Counting his money :HeadBanger

Lebsteel
12-21-2011, 01:20 AM
SEASON TEAM GP TACK SOLO AST SACK FF FR YDS INT YDS AVG LNG TD PD STF STFYDS KB
2007 BUF 3 26 17 9 0.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
2008 BUF 16 110 87 23 0.0 1 1 0 1 9 9 9 0 6 3 8 0
2009 BUF 12 110 87 23 1.0 3 0 0 3 20 7 17 0 4 5 10 0
2010 BUF 14 151 103 48 2.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 4 13 0
2011 JAC 14 110 64 46 2.0 1 0 0 2 2 1 2 0 8 5 27 0
Career 59 507 358 149 5.0 5 1 0 6 31 5 17 0 22 17 58 0


SEASON TEAM GP TACK SOLO AST SACK FF FR YDS INT YDS AVG LNG TD PD STF STFYDS KB
2007 PIT 16 13 11 2 0.0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 4 0
2008 PIT 16 65 43 22 5.0 1 1 0 1 89 89 89 0 3 2 6 0
2009 PIT 14 78 56 22 7.0 4 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 4 4 14 0
2010 PIT 16 135 96 39 3.0 2 2 0 2 5 3 5 0 9 8 19 0
2011 PIT 13 70 48 22 0.0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 4 2 7 0
Career 75 361 254 107 15.0 7 5 0 4 94 24 89 0 20 17 50 0

Well at least Timmons has played in 16 more games than Posluszny over their five-year careers. Yea, that's it, we picked him at 15 because he is durable! Oh, well, dead horse beaten. Hopefully the next five years, the ones where he is being paid big money, will be better than the first five.

Chadman
12-21-2011, 01:28 AM
Leb- no offence, but when they play the same roles in the same formations, then compare them.

A comparison to Patrick Willis is better-530 solo tackles, 158 assists for 688 combined, 17 sacks, 40 PD's, 5 ints, 12 FF.

However, even then, Willis is more the 49ers James Farrior...

feltdizz
12-21-2011, 11:13 AM
Well, you can officially put Chadman in the "Timmons-Apologists" list.

Here's the thing- name 1, yes, just 1, Steeler front 7 defender that has played up to last years standard.

In fact, Chadman can think of only 2 players on Defense that are noticably better than last year on the roster- Willie Gay & Keenan Lewis- and that may be more to do with how bad they were last year than anything else.

The whole Defense has been a disappointment. Not sure why- but generally when things don't work out "Splash-wise" it's due to being beaten in the non-Splash plays. Line Of Scrimmage type stuff. You know- the spot where the Steelers are converting from OLD to YOUNG. Keisel, Hampton & Smith making way for Hood, Heyward & possibly McLendon. The new guys don't dominate the way the old guys used to- and at this point in their careers, that is no surprise. Time will tell if Hood & Heyward ever achieve the level of play Smith & Keisel reached- signs look good- but their ability to draw double blockers isn't as good as the old guard over the last 5 years. This leaves more blockers free for the likes of Timmons, Woodley, Farrior & Harrison. So their drop-off is likely a result of that.

Has Timmons played as well as last year? No, not at all. Last year he really emerged- have we all forgotten his level of play last year? Chadman sees everyone saying his best year was the year he rotated with Foote- find that hard to believe- last season he was very strong.

Farrior is a shadow of his former self. He no longer commands the blocking he used to. Harrison & Woodley have missed significant playing time, and their replacements have been kids- Worilds & Carter- who at this point in their careers won't draw the extra blocker.

So the fact that Timmons makes less 'splash plays' is not surprising. Disappointing? Sure. It's a pity he can't drag the rest of the Defense along with him & make them great. It's a pity his level of play doesn't elevate the rest of the performances of his team mates. That said- his skill set is really designed to feed off the guys around him- as noted, he's not overly strong & really excels in space- not in traffic. So if the other 10 guys aren't playing at the level required, yes, Timmons will get shown up.

Chadman has warned of this happening for a couple of years- the Steelers Defense is going to suffer a drop-off soon, simply because we are about to experience 'the transition' of old to new- the FO have allowed KEY players to play on past their primes with little to no up-and-coming youth to replace them in place. Hood & Heyward are probably 2 years too late. Where's the dominant NT to replace Hampton? Where's the young ILB to replace Farrior? Where's the up & coming FS to replace Ryan Clark?

What we are currently seeing is young guys that are not quite up to DOMINATING being asked to pick up the slack of former great players who are now struggling to COMPETE. Effectively, this means we have taken the top off the EXCELLENCE of the Steelers Defense, and are left with a Defense that, while competitive, doesn't play at an ELITE level- more an adequate level- until the younger guys are at the top of their game. Hence the reason we see the Steelers play well for large chunks of the game, but come up short when they need to really stand up. They simply don't have that 'next level' yet, in some cases, or any more in others.

So while it's easy to say Timmons isn't playing up to his contract, perhaps we should look at the reasons for it, not just giggle with glee & tout the "I told you so" lines that have been harboured ever since he was 'drafted too high' by a lot of this board's ideals.

:tt2

:tt1 excellent post.

Slapstick
12-21-2011, 01:32 PM
You can look at Timmons' numbers compared to the two previous Mack LBs in the 3-4 ZB scheme...

I can tell you that he has more tackles in his first three years as a starter than either Larry Foote (2004-2007) or Kendrell Bell (2001-2003)...I can also tell you that Timmons has as many INTs and more Passes Defensed when compared to Bell and Foote put together...

He does have fewer sacks, probably because he isn't a great pass rusher like Bell, but also because he has been better in coverage overall than both Bell and Foote...

He is not having a great season...solid, but far from great...if he were having a similar season to last year, his numbers would be far better...but, they aren't...

As Chadman pointed out, there are several reasons for that, playing so often out of position being only one of those...we will have to see if any schematic adjustments are made in the offseason to account for the different capabilities of the younger players...we'll also see if that changes how Timmons looks within the context of the entire defensive unit...

steelz09
12-21-2011, 02:14 PM
I just can't defend the guy anymore. He should be criticized just as much as William Gay, Foote, Hood, Ryan Clark and the "others" that always get the blame.

I remember when everyone said, he's out of position as a ILB and should be an OLB for us but he can't beat out Harrison. Fast forward a couple of years, Harrison get's hurt, Timmons fill in.... and he sucks as a OLB. Now, the excuses are that he's out of position as an OLB and his true position is ILB. lol

The simple fact is, he's not that good at ILB (not top 15) and he's not even close to being good at OLB.

feltdizz
12-21-2011, 02:43 PM
I just can't defend the guy anymore. He should be criticized just as much as William Gay, Foote, Hood, Ryan Clark and the "others" that always get the blame.

I remember when everyone said, he's out of position as a ILB and should be an OLB for us but he can't beat out Harrison. Fast forward a couple of years, Harrison get's hurt, Timmons fill in.... and he sucks as a OLB. Now, the excuses are that he's out of position as an OLB and his true position is ILB. lol

The simple fact is, he's not that good at ILB (not top 15) and he's not even close to being good at OLB.

Gay, Foote and Clark get way too much criticism...

Slapstick
12-21-2011, 02:58 PM
I remember when everyone said, he's out of position as a ILB and should be an OLB for us but he can't beat out Harrison. Fast forward a couple of years, Harrison get's hurt, Timmons fill in.... and he sucks as a OLB. Now, the excuses are that he's out of position as an OLB and his true position is ILB.

He's been mentioned as a Mack LB ever since he was drafted...on draft day, Tomlin and Butler said as much...


"We think [Timmons] can play inside or outside. We always thought he was flexible as far as putting him on the line, taking him off the line or walking him out and doing these things that we sometimes ask our outside linebackers to do. He is athletic enough to be either inside or outside. Will it change? We will have to wait and see once we get into training camp. I'm going to try to teach him both the inside and the outside linebacker positions." -Keith Butler

pittpete
12-21-2011, 03:04 PM
Timmons and solid should no way in hell be used in the same sentence for this year

Shoe
12-21-2011, 03:51 PM
Said it before, but Paul Posluszny should have been the pick...after four years, compare the stats. I also am tired of the POTENTIAL of Timmons...show up for once this year and realize that potential!

I don't agree with that.
I do think (in my limited times I've seen Posluszny, and the lots of time I've seen Timmons every game obviously) Pos is the better player right now. (When I see him play, I'm very irmpressed with his tackling ability.) But sometimes you have to take a chance on a guy with as much physical ability that Timmons has (over Pos).

Think of that kid Aldon Smith from the 9ers, who wrecked us this Monday night. The guy has physical ability up the ying yang, like Timmons. You can't say, "Oh they should've taken Ryan Kerrigan." You have to sometimes gamble on greatness. The 49ers seem like they've won (on their gamble), us not so much.

Timmons is what he's going to be. He's decent, even maybe "good". But he's not Patrick Willis, or anything close. He's James Farrior-Light. (i.e. He's no prime James Farrior either.)

SteelAbility
12-23-2011, 12:40 PM
There has been a TON of viewing Timmons' good plays under a microscope and his bad plays from a telescope. He looked lost out there in the SF game. He had a good year last year, but now that the game film has been studied he's starting to get exposed. If he's going to live up to the hype he is going to have to be progressive.

All that potential without updating of his game skills is diminished.

Slapstick
12-23-2011, 01:21 PM
There has been a TON of viewing Timmons' good plays under a microscope and his bad plays from a telescope.

You have it backwards...

On this board, his plays have been viewed a microscope and his good plays under a telescope....

At times, you could say the same thing about Gay, Farrior, Polamalu, etc...

Not to mention Arians and LeBeau...

Welcome to an internet message board...

TallyStiller
12-23-2011, 01:31 PM
Full disclosre... I'm a Florida State grad who has watched Timmons since I saw his high school recruiting film as a skinny DE from South Carolina. He came to school south of 220# and wasn't considered to be a really "big time" recruit. He moved back to OLB in college and then to ILB as a pro, putting on weight and muscle at each successive move.

Further, he just flat out flew to the ball as a college player. Seemed he was maybe the only difference maker on teams that honestly could've been 4 - 8 without him. He was instinctive... BUT, his job was just to make plays.

Where I'm going with this is that he's been being groomed supposedly for years as Farrior's eventual replacement. Farrior wears the headset helmet and makes the calls for the defense. The Steelers are always loathe to let go of vets at free safety because of the "complexity" of the defense... could some of Timmons' struggles owe to increased responsibilities and "thinking" the game too much? He entered the draft as a true junior out of college, and played D Line in high school... only started playing ILB as a pro, has only been on the field a couple of years, and has, not to put too fine a point on it, never been accused of being a potential Rhodes Scholar.

My hope and belief, all this said, is that he'll keep working and continue to grow into his increased role... FWIW, when Farrior stepped in here, he was a 5 year vet FA who had played in the Parcells - Belichick system for the Jets, and came out of the U of Virginia, a place with some significant academic standards for its athletes that can't recruit a lot of guys most places can.

RuthlessBurgher
12-23-2011, 02:50 PM
not to put too fine a point on it

Say I'm the only bee in your bonnet.

Make a little birdhouse in your soul. :P

Shoe
12-23-2011, 03:18 PM
Full disclosre... I'm a Florida State grad who has watched Timmons since I saw his high school recruiting film as a skinny DE from South Carolina. He came to school south of 220# and wasn't considered to be a really "big time" recruit. He moved back to OLB in college and then to ILB as a pro, putting on weight and muscle at each successive move.

Further, he just flat out flew to the ball as a college player. Seemed he was maybe the only difference maker on teams that honestly could've been 4 - 8 without him. He was instinctive... BUT, his job was just to make plays.

Where I'm going with this is that he's been being groomed supposedly for years as Farrior's eventual replacement. Farrior wears the headset helmet and makes the calls for the defense. The Steelers are always loathe to let go of vets at free safety because of the "complexity" of the defense... could some of Timmons' struggles owe to increased responsibilities and "thinking" the game too much? He entered the draft as a true junior out of college, and played D Line in high school... only started playing ILB as a pro, has only been on the field a couple of years, and has, not to put too fine a point on it, never been accused of being a potential Rhodes Scholar.

My hope and belief, all this said, is that he'll keep working and continue to grow into his increased role... FWIW, when Farrior stepped in here, he was a 5 year vet FA who had played in the Parcells - Belichick system for the Jets, and came out of the U of Virginia, a place with some significant academic standards for its athletes that can't recruit a lot of guys most places can.

That could be it, but by this point in the scheme, that hesitation or whatever you want to call it shouldn't be there. And on that note... I know going to OLB is different, but the OLB position does lend to seek and destroy moreso... and he didn't do a darn thing there.

I'm like you: I expect to see a heat-seeking missile out there, because I seen him do it before (not as you have, but here with the Steelers he has shown glimpses). One thing I'm unsure about is the role of our ILBs today. I recall hearing htat the traditional role of our ILBs (back in Kirkland's days), was to have a run-stuffing, POA player (like Kirkland, David Little)... and next to him, have a rangy, more athletic type (Timmons, Chad Brown, Farrior). It seems that we've had Farrior/Timmons/Foote for years. Who is that step-up and fill guy? Timmons? Farrior? If it's Timmons, maybe that explains his "struggles" to make big-plays.

hawaiiansteel
12-24-2011, 05:58 PM
Timmons showed up today:

11 tackles, 1 sack, 1 tfl and 2 QB hits

pittpete
12-24-2011, 10:47 PM
If you watched the game, no FN way did he show up.
One of the announcers said in the beginning of the game that Timmons is having a "brilliant" season
This just before he got caught inside and let Jackson rip off a 15 yard gain for a first down
Timmons sack came on a blitz where he was unblocked
Timmons is average at best, BS he came to play today....

hawaiiansteel
12-24-2011, 10:53 PM
If you watched the game, no FN way did he show up.
One of the announcers said in the beginning of the game that Timmons is having a "brilliant" season
This just before he got caught inside and let Jackson rip off a 15 yard gain for a first down
Timmons sack came on a blitz where he was unblocked
Timmons is average at best, BS he came to play today....


you're tough to please...

the Steelers defense pitched a shutout and these are Timmons' stats:

11 tackles, 1 sack, 1 tfl and 2 QB hits

he led all Steelers defenders in tackles and that now makes four straight games with at least eight tackles for Timmons, sounds like he's beginning to show up in games to me.

pittpete
12-25-2011, 09:23 AM
Did you watch the game?

hawaiiansteel
12-25-2011, 01:35 PM
Did you watch the game?


actually, I did watch the game.

we just have a different definition of what "showing up" for a game means.

but much more importantly, I would like to wish you and all of my fellow Steelers brothers a very Merry Christmas!

Shoe
12-25-2011, 01:36 PM
you're tough to please...

the Steelers defense pitched a shutout and these are Timmons' stats:

11 tackles, 1 sack, 1 tfl and 2 QB hits

he led all Steelers defenders in tackles and that now makes four straight games with at least eight tackles for Timmons, sounds like he's beginning to show up in games to me.

I'm not faulting his performance yesterday, or even his general effort I guess... but he's simply not made the impact that we've been led to believe we'd see from him.

I mean look--Steven Jackson had 100 yards rushing, so stats can also mislead too. (i.e. If his primary job as an ILB is to stop the run, then he didn't exactly succeed today.)

But I agree--today, he had a good game. I wouldn't call it great, though the numbers might say that. He didn't seem to "make plays", in the sense that he didn't do anything extraordinary, other than being in the right place at the right time (which says something about him too). It shows he's pretty sound. But we were lead to believe we'd see more, and we haven't seen it... yet.

pittpete
12-25-2011, 02:35 PM
You too Hawaii :Cheers

fezziwig
12-25-2011, 09:16 PM
Timmons is our biggest under achiever on the team in my opinion

Steelerphile
12-26-2011, 07:33 AM
Timmons performance in the last four games in trending upward and I don't think people are noticing. So I would agree that he was nothing special for a long time, but I think he played very well yesterday and mainly pretty well recently.

fezziwig
12-26-2011, 10:14 AM
I hate to always be negative but Timmons is not as advertised. He was a number one pick that they had taken careful time to allow him to watch from the sideline for his learning and understanding. A number one pick that as far as I remember seen very, very little playing time the first couple years and only really got on the field in his third season and not even that much.
The guy that was going to be unleashed, a game changer and all that. He is just average with a huge paycheck.

Another one of those players that impresses everyone in camp but doesn't bring it to the games.

Slapstick
12-26-2011, 10:30 AM
I love the retroactive rewriting of history that takes place on message boards...

Steelerphile
12-26-2011, 10:31 AM
I would call 2010 a good season. 135 total tkls, 3 scks, 9 passes defensed, 2 ints and 2 fumble recoveries.

He had 7 sacks in 2009 in a more limited role. . I think the organization expected him to improve on his 2010 numbers which I would argue were good, or at least replicate. But he hasn't. But I think he has looked better recently.

The defense is a more transitional this season and he's been doing differnt things. But should I say again. NO. 1 defense in the NFL? People can argue the relative meaning of that stat, but he is a key guy in there.

fezziwig
12-26-2011, 11:22 AM
Maybe I'm expecting to much of him due do the hype that we were hearing ?

His teammates were coming out of camp talking what an improvement he was ( last years camp ) how he was going to be unstoppable and all the accolades you could give to a person and so on.

Didn't they take away some of Troys duties in lo of Timmons ? Troy used to fly around making tackles free-lancing and that has changed with giving Timmons the edge.

I just expected him to make more blow up plays, game changing plays and having the opponents attentions focused on Timmons as they do with Troy, Woodley and Harrison.

TallyStiller
12-26-2011, 06:03 PM
Kind of what I was talking about... I suppose it depends on expectations. I was honestly, based on the way people were talking pre - season, combined with his statistical trajectory the previous 2 years, looking for a Defensive POY candidate type of season out of Timmons this year. Whatever the merits of his play this season are/are not, I think we can all agree that POY isn't in the cards. From that perspective, the season has been disappointing.

Furthermore, I felt like one of Timmons' great strengths, based on his size/speed physical package, would be ability to cover some of the new breed of really big, fast TE's around the league. I haven't been particularly impressed with that aspect of his game when I've seen him, however, and was struck by that fact when I saw us get abused by Vernon Davis, likely the gold standard in tight end athleticism. Kinda thought that was what we paid him the big bucks for...

hawaiiansteel
12-29-2011, 02:59 AM
Timmons is our biggest under achiever on the team in my opinion


the moment Lawrence Timmons signed his latest six-year $50 million contract, expectations for him went to such sky-high levels that it was going to be very difficult for him to meet those expectations.

fezziwig
12-29-2011, 10:27 AM
Timmons is our biggest under achiever on the team in my opinion


the moment Lawrence Timmons signed his latest six-year $50 million contract, expectations for him went to such sky-high levels that it was going to be very difficult for him to meet those expectations.


Is he at market value ?

steelz09
12-29-2011, 10:36 AM
Timmons is our biggest under achiever on the team in my opinion


the moment Lawrence Timmons signed his latest six-year $50 million contract, expectations for him went to such sky-high levels that it was going to be very difficult for him to meet those expectations.

For me, the 50 mil doesn't have as much to do with it.

It's about the draft position and it's about the expectations and "potential" that he was labeled with. I haven't seen it. I was against the pick from the very beginning but I kept an open mind.

To spin things in another direction... I think it has to do with the 3-4 scheme. Historically, the Steelers have been successful in converting DE to 3-4 OLBs. Timmons was an OLB in a 4-3 trying to convert to 3-4 ILB. That is a huge difference. ILB in general is a very difficult position to "learn" this far into his career. It's more instinctive of a position than OLB. Vision (just like a RB) is key on the inside.

I put a lot of blame on the evaluation of Timmons. He might be a great player stuck in the wrong scheme. I just wish the words potential, playmaker, splash plays, etc would be given a rest for now....

The "potential" label is given to a draft pick, not a 5th year pro.
Timmons is not a playermaker. 1 INT, 1 SACK, 0FF in 15 games. The INT fell right into his lap, and he was unblocked on the sack. Polamalu, Harrison, Suggs, Ed Reed, etc are all playmakers. Timmons is not.
Timmons does not make "Splash Plays". This goes along with being a "playmaker". See above.

steelsnis
12-29-2011, 11:28 AM
Timmons is not a playermaker. 1 INT, 1 SACK, 0FF in 15 games. The INT fell right into his lap, and he was unblocked on the sack. Polamalu, Harrison, Suggs, Ed Reed, etc are all playmakers. Timmons is not.
Timmons does not make "Splash Plays". This goes along with being a "playmaker".

Timmons isn't a playmaker? He hasn't made the splash plays THIS season, but you can't discount what he's done in his time with the Steelers. He's had plenty of splash plays here.

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I'm pretty sure he's bounced back and forth between the linebacker positions a number of times this season. Filled in for both Harrison and Woodley. Don't you think preparing and gameplanning for teams while playing a different position than you normally play will affect your numbers?

You always hear about guys trying to do too much and getting out of position attempting to make a play because of someone being out. Happens all the time. Our guys, especially the inside backers, have to stay gap-sound. When your regulars aren't in on the edges, it's not surprising to see the inside guys trying to do more than they normally would, thereby exposing a hole that ordinarily wouldn't be there.

I expect MUCH bigger things from Timmons than we've seen to this point in the season, but I also see the reasons for it. It has nothing to do with where he was drafted and who drafted him and who else was on the board when the pick came in.

Playoffs are coming and the slate is wiped clean. With a healthy Harrison and Woodley back in their familiar positions outside, I expect to see a loaded-for-bear Timmons unleashed.

steelz09
12-29-2011, 11:39 AM
Timmons is not a playermaker. 1 INT, 1 SACK, 0FF in 15 games. The INT fell right into his lap, and he was unblocked on the sack. Polamalu, Harrison, Suggs, Ed Reed, etc are all playmakers. Timmons is not.
Timmons does not make "Splash Plays". This goes along with being a "playmaker".

Timmons isn't a playmaker? He hasn't made the splash plays THIS season, but you can't discount what he's done in his time with the Steelers. He's had plenty of splash plays here.

I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I'm pretty sure he's bounced back and forth between the linebacker positions a number of times this season. Filled in for both Harrison and Woodley. Don't you think preparing and gameplanning for teams while playing a different position than you normally play will affect your numbers?

You always hear about guys trying to do too much and getting out of position attempting to make a play because of someone being out. Happens all the time. Our guys, especially the inside backers, have to stay gap-sound. When your regulars aren't in on the edges, it's not surprising to see the inside guys trying to do more than they normally would, thereby exposing a hole that ordinarily wouldn't be there.

I expect MUCH bigger things from Timmons than we've seen to this point in the season, but I also see the reasons for it. It has nothing to do with where he was drafted and who drafted him and who else was on the board when the pick came in.

Playoffs are coming and the slate is wiped clean. With a healthy Harrison and Woodley back in their familiar positions outside, I expect to see a loaded-for-bear Timmons unleashed.

The Timmons homers will keep making excuses for the guy. That's the bottom line. He's an underachiever. Meanwhile (and I don't support these guys any more) Gay, Clark, etc will be the whipping boys.

According to the Steelers coaching staff, he can play OLB. He can certainly line up as OLB but he doesn't "play" it very well. Just like I said earlier in this thread, I remember the days when people were saying Timmons was out of position playing ILB and he should be an OLB. Well, this year put that to rest. He flat out sucks at OLB. At least he's average at ILB.

Shoe
12-29-2011, 11:57 AM
Playoffs are coming and the slate is wiped clean. With a healthy Harrison and Woodley back in their familiar positions outside, I expect to see a loaded-for-bear Timmons unleashed.

What makes you think Woodley will be back in his familiar position. The guy has taken:
-the first 1/4 of the season off
-the 3/4 of the season off
-and this last 4/4 of the season off

What makes you think he will be in there? The guy is stealing money from the team as far as I'm concerned. jhansle said it best--Timmons was supposed to be "a playmaker" on our D... a D that is thirsting for ONE MORE playmaker. It's basically impacted our whole team, in not being able to get turnovers, get off the field more on D, etc. He's not doing it.

steelsnis
12-29-2011, 12:47 PM
What makes you think Woodley will be back in his familiar position. The guy has taken:
-the first 1/4 of the season off
-the 3/4 of the season off
-and this last 4/4 of the season off

What makes you think he will be in there? The guy is stealing money from the team as far as I'm concerned. jhansle said it best--Timmons was supposed to be "a playmaker" on our D... a D that is thirsting for ONE MORE playmaker. It's basically impacted our whole team, in not being able to get turnovers, get off the field more on D, etc. He's not doing it.

And yet, somehow, this team is 11-4 heading into the final game of the year. It's all about the playoffs in this league. You know it and I know it. Let's see how it all shakes out in the REAL season before we start accusing guys of "stealing money."

I get it that you're not a Woodley fan and probably didn't want the team to give him a new contract. But bashing a guy who's been injured and saying he's stealing money? I don't get it. He was dominating teams in the games leading up to his hammy injury. Ask Tom Brady. Hamstring injuries are brutal because you can't keep your fitness level up while you're healing. Look at Andre Johnson in Houston. Is he stealing money?

RuthlessBurgher
12-29-2011, 02:15 PM
What makes you think Woodley will be back in his familiar position. The guy has taken:
-the first 1/4 of the season off
-the 3/4 of the season off
-and this last 4/4 of the season off

Because he always steps up his game in the playoffs?

First four playoff games he played in...2 sacks in each of those games.
Last three playoff games he played in...1 sack in each of those games.

That's 11 sacks in 7 career playoff games...he's never had a playoff games without a sack.

TallyStiller
12-29-2011, 04:31 PM
Hadn't thought about the amount of OLB Timmons has been asked to play this year... definitely not playing it effectively. He just gets engulfed by the offensive tackles he's rushing against.

Kinda reminds me, though, of Carnell Lake's "take one for the team" season in '95, when Rod Woodson went out and we turned an All - Pro caliber safety into an average corner. It obviously worked, though, because that team made the Super Bowl, and the defeat there certainly wasn't on the defense (ahem... Neil O'Donnell... ahem)

One thing's fairly certain, though... like it or not, Timmons/Woodley is the core of our D for the next several years.

pittpete
12-29-2011, 07:34 PM
Stop making excuses, the guy has 1 sack this year and it came while he was unblocked.
He doesnt shed blocks very well and isnt half as physical as Farrior is even at his age.
He's been a dissappointment this year so lets hope he shines during the playoffs.
If he makes plays in the post season he will have earned a pass from me this year.

fezziwig
12-29-2011, 08:44 PM
Seems like I'm always with the negatives but, it doesn't mean I don't feel positive about other stuff that goes well. To me life is like, work on the stuff that needs fixed.

I'm not happy with Timmons, the guy looks so out of place when he is on the field. Seems like he's late with a tackle, someone ran around him, away from him and he gets neutralized pretty easily.

Unless they are using him as a take the brunt of the offenses so that the rest of the defense can do their job but, I just don't see it. That's the linemens job anyway.

I see nothing that tells me that, we are getting the bang for our buc or draft selection with Timmons.

Shoe
12-29-2011, 09:48 PM
I get it that you're not a Woodley fan and probably didn't want the team to give him a new contract. But bashing a guy who's been injured and saying he's stealing money? I don't get it. He was dominating teams in the games leading up to his hammy injury. Ask Tom Brady. Hamstring injuries are brutal because you can't keep your fitness level up while you're healing. Look at Andre Johnson in Houston. Is he stealing money?

Actually, I did become a Woodley fan. And I hope I still can be one. I take issue with specific factors of his history with the team, and coupled with his current (and most certainly, legitimate) injury... not to mention his HUGE salary... and I'm frustrated.

Starting off seemingly every season slowly... to me... indicates that he doesn't come to the season properly prepared. Now of course, that means that maybe he's on to something (given that in the playoffs, he steps up. Maybe he knows his body that well.) Fine. But then... you shouldn't get a contract that pays you for 16+ games then. I bet Harrison could take off the first month of the year, older guys like Farrior, Aaron Smith probably would love to show up in October and get the opportunity to play in January. But if you area $60m man, you gotta give even more.

As I said, I don't really doubt his hamstring is a legit injury. I'm not questioning his toughness... I'm questioning his preparation, especially given his contract.

Oviedo
12-29-2011, 10:06 PM
Lots of opinions and hate for Timmons, but the guys who know and matter just signed him up for another 5 years. I think that says more about his performance than internet opinions.

Sugar
12-29-2011, 10:29 PM
Lots of opinions and hate for Timmons, but the guys who know and matter just signed him up for another 5 years. I think that says more about his performance than internet opinions.


WORD!! :Beer

fezziwig
12-29-2011, 11:04 PM
the same guy or guys that believe Arians is good enough or possibly the same guy that is in charge of clock management

pittpete
12-29-2011, 11:22 PM
Yes, because front offices never make mistakes by over paying players :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Timmons was paid because of past performance...
A big $$$ contract doesn't guarantee big $$$ performance.
Lets hope Timmons steps it up going forward


mikeflores16: Who has been the biggest surprise and the biggest disappointment this year on the team?

Gerry Dulac: There have been a couple big surprises, starting with Keenan Lewis and the continued development of Antonio Brown. Also, rookie Marcus Gilbert. Disappointments? That's easy -- Lawrence Timmons and/or Chris Kemoeatu.

NJ-STEELER
12-30-2011, 12:44 AM
Stop making excuses, the guy has 1 sack this year and it came while he was unblocked.
.

i dont remember him beating a guy for a sack ever in his career here

he gets blocked way too easily

papillon
12-30-2011, 02:21 PM
Okay, so many opinions about the demise of Lawrence Timmons. So, it begs the question: What happened to the guy that averaged about 7-8 tackles per game last year? Why the drop off? out of position? does he have a weakness that offensive linemen are exploiting and he doesn't know it? injury no one knows about? defensive line not as stout as last year? other?

Last year he looked every bit the pro-bowler playing inside and this year he appears to be a shell of himself. Why?

Pappy

RuthlessBurgher
12-30-2011, 02:48 PM
Okay, so many opinions about the demise of Lawrence Timmons. So, it begs the question: What happened to the guy that averaged about 7-8 tackles per game last year? Why the drop off? out of position? does he have a weakness that offensive linemen are exploiting and he doesn't know it? injury no one knows about? defensive line not as stout as last year? other?

Last year he looked every bit the pro-bowler playing inside and this year he appears to be a shell of himself. Why?

Pappy

I think it is just the bouncing back and forth from inside to outside (and even bouncing back and forth between outside positions, starting on the weak side for an injured Harrison, then starting on the strong side for an injured Woodley). And even when he has been back inside in his usual spot, the cast of characters around him keeps changing, so it's tough to get any continuity among the LB corps (for example, one week he could be between Harrison and Farrior...then between Harrison and Foote...then between Foote and Worilds...then he's between Farrior and Worilds...and so on). When he knows that Harrison, Farrior, and Woodley are going to be where they are supposed to be, he is able to loosen up and go out and make plays. When there is a new guy in the mix every week, perhaps he is playing a little more vanilla, playing it safer so that we don't give up the big play (reacting to what the offense is doing) as opposed to an all out attack (dictating to the offense).

frankthetank1
12-30-2011, 03:05 PM
Yes, because front offices never make mistakes by over paying players :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Timmons was paid because of past performance...
A big $$$ contract doesn't guarantee big $$$ performance.
Lets hope Timmons steps it up going forward


mikeflores16: Who has been the biggest surprise and the biggest disappointment this year on the team?

Gerry Dulac: There have been a couple big surprises, starting with Keenan Lewis and the continued development of Antonio Brown. Also, rookie Marcus Gilbert. Disappointments? That's easy -- Lawrence Timmons and/or Chris Kemoeatu.

front offices overpay for players all the time, but when does the steelers FO really overpay for any player? other than duece staley i cant think of any players the steelers have paid too much for in the past

papillon
12-30-2011, 03:07 PM
Okay, so many opinions about the demise of Lawrence Timmons. So, it begs the question: What happened to the guy that averaged about 7-8 tackles per game last year? Why the drop off? out of position? does he have a weakness that offensive linemen are exploiting and he doesn't know it? injury no one knows about? defensive line not as stout as last year? other?

Last year he looked every bit the pro-bowler playing inside and this year he appears to be a shell of himself. Why?

Pappy

I think it is just the bouncing back and forth from inside to outside (and even bouncing back and forth between outside positions, starting on the weak side for an injured Harrison, then starting on the strong side for an injured Woodley). And even when he has been back inside in his usual spot, the cast of characters around him keeps changing, so it's tough to get any continuity among the LB corps (for example, one week he could be between Harrison and Farrior...then between Harrison and Foote...then between Foote and Worilds...then he's between Farrior and Worilds...and so on). When he knows that Harrison, Farrior, and Woodley are going to be where they are supposed to be, he is able to loosen up and go out and make plays. When there is a new guy in the mix every week, perhaps he is playing a little more vanilla, playing it safer so that we don't give up the big play (reacting to what the offense is doing) as opposed to an all out attack (dictating to the offense).

Some might say that based on those conditions he's had a pretty good year. It's not like he's giving up huge plays every week. I know a TEs got him for some big gains (San Fran), but for the most part he's held down 3 of the 4 LB positions this year and never with the same group of players.

It would be nice for Woodley to be healthy, I mean really healthy for the playoffs and let Timmons back in his normal position with the cast of characters on each side of him to see what happens. I just don't have the faith that Woodley is going to be healthy this year again.

Pappy

RuthlessBurgher
12-30-2011, 03:27 PM
Yes, because front offices never make mistakes by over paying players :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Timmons was paid because of past performance...
A big $$$ contract doesn't guarantee big $$$ performance.
Lets hope Timmons steps it up going forward


mikeflores16: Who has been the biggest surprise and the biggest disappointment this year on the team?

Gerry Dulac: There have been a couple big surprises, starting with Keenan Lewis and the continued development of Antonio Brown. Also, rookie Marcus Gilbert. Disappointments? That's easy -- Lawrence Timmons and/or Chris Kemoeatu.

front offices overpay for players all the time, but when does the steelers FO really overpay for any player? other than duece staley i cant think of any players the steelers have paid too much for in the past

http://www.bestsportsphotos.com/image.php?productid=30611

papillon
12-30-2011, 04:33 PM
Yes, because front offices never make mistakes by over paying players :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Timmons was paid because of past performance...
A big $$$ contract doesn't guarantee big $$$ performance.
Lets hope Timmons steps it up going forward


mikeflores16: Who has been the biggest surprise and the biggest disappointment this year on the team?

Gerry Dulac: There have been a couple big surprises, starting with Keenan Lewis and the continued development of Antonio Brown. Also, rookie Marcus Gilbert. Disappointments? That's easy -- Lawrence Timmons and/or Chris Kemoeatu.

front offices overpay for players all the time, but when does the steelers FO really overpay for any player? other than duece staley i cant think of any players the steelers have paid too much for in the past

http://www.bestsportsphotos.com/image.php?productid=30611

Ouch...forgot about Mahan.

Pappy

papillon
12-30-2011, 04:35 PM
Yes, because front offices never make mistakes by over paying players :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Timmons was paid because of past performance...
A big $$$ contract doesn't guarantee big $$$ performance.
Lets hope Timmons steps it up going forward


mikeflores16: Who has been the biggest surprise and the biggest disappointment this year on the team?

Gerry Dulac: There have been a couple big surprises, starting with Keenan Lewis and the continued development of Antonio Brown. Also, rookie Marcus Gilbert. Disappointments? That's easy -- Lawrence Timmons and/or Chris Kemoeatu.

front offices overpay for players all the time, but when does the steelers FO really overpay for any player? other than duece staley i cant think of any players the steelers have paid too much for in the past

And, it's still too early to determine if they overpaid for Timmons; based on last year, the contract was a solid deal for both. It will be interesting to see how he plays moving forward and hopefully, at his position (ILB) and with a consistent set of players in front of him and beside him, rather than the rotating LB carousel that occurred this year.

Pappy

Keyplay1
12-30-2011, 05:05 PM
I heard he won a trip to the Bahamas or somewhere on the Price is Right last summer. Hasn't he got back yet?

Someone said What's all the fuss about " If the ball carrier finds him, he makes the tackle almost all the time"

Okay not too funny attempt at a little humor here. But actually the Question should have been Why all these posts now. Nothing has really changed since day 1.

4 or 5 years ago a poster named Steeler-fo-Life or something like that called the shot on the two LB's drafted in 2007. He projected a great career for Lamar Woodley but did not think Timmons should have been drafted ahead of him. A few years later he was certain LT was not going to be much as a ILB for various reasons.

He was pretty much on target but did not allow for a master DC finding numerous ways to make LT an asset. But now that his coverage skills seem to be slipping he is getting noticed by fans. Hey! He's a competent player just not the HOFer a lot of people seem to think he would be.

Hey! I just heard the cruise ship docked in Miami Wednesday. He should be able to get here for the Cleveland game Sunday? LOL

BTW: Whatever happened to that Steeler-fo-Life guy. I do remember him getting mad at times when his opinions were challenged and threatening to leave but that was not an uncommon thing for him. Oh well! I guess he moved on. This site always had a lot of good and informative posters. I thought he was one of them.

fezziwig
12-30-2011, 06:35 PM
Someone mentioned or eluded to , Timmons is not having a productive time of it because Harrison and Woodley are not playing or playing injured.

My question is, why does Timmons get to chew on the fat because Harrison and Woodley are doing good ? Those two don't need anyone other than the defensive line to help them at their job.

Woodley and Harrison take care of business because they can.

As of why everyone is on Timmons at this point or this season is wrong. I never thought he was any good.

To me it's Tomlin trying to make something out of his first number one draft choice and the guy was just not number one worthy. At best he is average.

steelsnis
12-31-2011, 12:19 AM
As of why everyone is on Timmons at this point or this season is wrong. I never thought he was any good.

To me it's Tomlin trying to make something out of his first number one draft choice and the guy was just not number one worthy. At best he is average.

He was never any good? That's revisionist history at its finest. Did you miss his 135 tackles last season?

steelsnis
12-31-2011, 11:39 AM
And, BTW, I don't want it to come across like i'm a strict apologist for Timmons. I absolutely agree that he hasn't been great this season and needs to be better moving forward.

I just see that there are reasons for the drop in production and can't stand when people use something like this as an excuse to say "See, the guy stinks and always has...Tomlin's an idiot for choosing him, etc etc"

Slapstick
12-31-2011, 11:50 AM
Someone mentioned or eluded to , Timmons is not having a productive time of it because Harrison and Woodley are not playing or playing injured.

My question is, why does Timmons get to chew on the fat because Harrison and Woodley are doing good ?

Let's put LaMarr Woodley in Timmons' ILB spot and see how many splash plays he comes up with...

I think you could put Harrison in any of the 4 LB spots and he'd do fairly well, though probably not up to the standards he set for himself at OLB...

It's all conjecture at this point, but the only thing that we know for certain is that Timmons played a third of the season out of position...

The last thing I will say is this:

Continuity counts for a lot...just as it does on the offensive line, so it also counts on defense...especially in a LB centric defensive scheme like LeBeau's...

fezziwig
12-31-2011, 12:15 PM
The Steelers have always been known for great linebackers and Timmons was advertised as being one of these future greats. I just don't see him as that and to me, he's just average.

pittpete
12-31-2011, 01:13 PM
And, it's still too early to determine if they overpaid for Timmons; based on last year, the contract was a solid deal for both.

I totally agree that this a fair and accurate statement.


It will be interesting to see how he plays moving forward and hopefully, at his position (ILB) and with a consistent set of players in front of him and beside him, rather than the rotating LB carousel that occurred this year.
Now based on this statement,maybe he isn't the player we/and/or the front office thought he was when he was signed to the lucrative contract.
Timmons needs other players around him so he can be productive seems like an excuse.
Worilds has been productive at OLB as a 2nd year player and Timmons did zilcho as an OLB after 4+ years in the same defense.
Again, time will tell

frankthetank1
12-31-2011, 01:26 PM
Yes, because front offices never make mistakes by over paying players :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:

Timmons was paid because of past performance...
A big $$$ contract doesn't guarantee big $$$ performance.
Lets hope Timmons steps it up going forward


mikeflores16: Who has been the biggest surprise and the biggest disappointment this year on the team?

Gerry Dulac: There have been a couple big surprises, starting with Keenan Lewis and the continued development of Antonio Brown. Also, rookie Marcus Gilbert. Disappointments? That's easy -- Lawrence Timmons and/or Chris Kemoeatu.

front offices overpay for players all the time, but when does the steelers FO really overpay for any player? other than duece staley i cant think of any players the steelers have paid too much for in the past

http://www.bestsportsphotos.com/image.php?productid=30611

Ouch...forgot about Mahan.

Pappy

i also had forgotten about mahan. i agree ouch! Mahan was a very forgetable player. well every team overpays for players the steelers just do it less than most teams. like it was earlier said it is too early to tell if the steelers overpaid for timmons. there may be some room for improvement in his game but overall he is pretty solid

RuthlessBurgher
12-31-2011, 01:56 PM
Ouch...forgot about Mahan.

Pappy

How much did it cost you in therapy session to forget about Mahan?

Oh well...sorry, man...back to the couch for you. :lol:

RuthlessBurgher
12-31-2011, 02:00 PM
I heard he won a trip to the Bahamas or somewhere on the Price is Right last summer. Hasn't he got back yet?

Someone said What's all the fuss about " If the ball carrier finds him, he makes the tackle almost all the time"

Okay not too funny attempt at a little humor here. But actually the Question should have been Why all these posts now. Nothing has really changed since day 1.

4 or 5 years ago a poster named Steeler-fo-Life or something like that called the shot on the two LB's drafted in 2007. He projected a great career for Lamar Woodley but did not think Timmons should have been drafted ahead of him. A few years later he was certain LT was not going to be much as a ILB for various reasons.

He was pretty much on target but did not allow for a master DC finding numerous ways to make LT an asset. But now that his coverage skills seem to be slipping he is getting noticed by fans. Hey! He's a competent player just not the HOFer a lot of people seem to think he would be.

Hey! I just heard the cruise ship docked in Miami Wednesday. He should be able to get here for the Cleveland game Sunday? LOL

BTW: Whatever happened to that Steeler-fo-Life guy. I do remember him getting mad at times when his opinions were challenged and threatening to leave but that was not an uncommon thing for him. Oh well! I guess he moved on. This site always had a lot of good and informative posters. I thought he was one of them.

Dee Dub said all that?

RuthlessBurgher
12-31-2011, 02:01 PM
As of why everyone is on Timmons at this point or this season is wrong. I never thought he was any good.

To me it's Tomlin trying to make something out of his first number one draft choice and the guy was just not number one worthy. At best he is average.

He was never any good? That's revisionist history at its finest. Did you miss his 135 tackles last season?

Not to mention the 3 sacks, 9 passes defensed, 2 interceptions, and 2 forced fumbles last year.

fezziwig
12-31-2011, 04:03 PM
Every team has a player that has the most tackles but, it doesn't make them an all pro. Some positions just allow for those type of stats. Three sacks are nothing to brag about.

I'm talking about Timmons being a guy that is distruptive, causes offenses troubles and the need for offenses to focus upon.

Put any other average Joe in at Timmons position and you get the same production.

RuthlessBurgher
12-31-2011, 04:54 PM
Three sacks are nothing to brag about.

Okay, then...he had 7 sacks in his first year as a starter in 2009. He had 5 sacks in 2008 (when he only had 2 starts).

fezziwig
12-31-2011, 05:08 PM
I can't go back and watch game films to see what sacks he got where he runs over someone to get to the Qb though I doubt that is the case.

We had Gildon that I think is our sack leader of the team and to me he was still a scrub. If it wasn't for QB's running into him he wouldn't have 75% of his sacks. The other 25% were when no one was blocking him. I'm talking about wanting Timmons to be a a distruptive force on our team like Woodley and Harrison and he is not.

Fine, you like the guy and I have no problem with that. I'll go with, what has he done of late ?

I'll keep my eye on him this Sunday and try to see what you guys are seeing.

Keyplay1
01-01-2012, 01:51 PM
RuthlessBurgher said: "Dee Dub said all that?"

Ah so! I just started checking some of his posts and see where you're coming from. Already found some references to identities suggesting this in several posts. Need more time. The "Domino" post and "The Biggest Crock" seem to fit the profile.

Is this speculation on your part? "My bad" is I read almost all these posts but since I have a small screen I frequently have no idea who is doing the posting. Regardless, that's the kind of stuff that makes these boards interesting and fun to read.

Shoe
01-01-2012, 02:03 PM
We had Gildon that I think is our sack leader of the team and to me he was still a scrub. If it wasn't for QB's running into him he wouldn't have 75% of his sacks. The other 25% were when no one was blocking him. I'm talking about wanting Timmons to be a a distruptive force on our team like Woodley and Harrison and he is not.

That's not very disrespectful to Gildon is it.

fezziwig
01-01-2012, 04:05 PM
I guess I am being rough on Timmons being he is doing a lot of aout of position playing. Lots to think about during those out of normal position playing.
I still think he is an underachiever but I will echo again, tough to be at your best when your asked to shuffle around so much.

Slapstick
01-01-2012, 09:20 PM
He beat a guy for a sack today and played well in coverage..

fezziwig
01-01-2012, 09:59 PM
Timmons did have the kind of game I've been expecting out of him so congradulations to Timmons.

Did I hear the annoucer correctly that, they had taken the sack off him and said the QB gained a yard on the play ?

NJ-STEELER
01-01-2012, 10:39 PM
Timmons did have the kind of game I've been expecting out of him so congradulations to Timmons.

Did I hear the annoucer correctly that, they had taken the sack off him and said the QB gained a yard on the play ?


i think they took troy's sack away saying it was going to be a run play

hawaiiansteel
01-01-2012, 10:45 PM
Timmons was our leading tackler today and was credited with a sack, a tfl, a pass defensed and another QB hit...not a bad day at the office.

fezziwig
01-01-2012, 10:49 PM
Timmons did have the kind of game I've been expecting out of him so congradulations to Timmons.

Did I hear the annoucer correctly that, they had taken the sack off him and said the QB gained a yard on the play ?


i think they took troy's sack away saying it was going to be a run play


thanks. that was a great play by troy. if there are any other teams or fans that wouldn't want troy on their team they would be nuts.

Chadman
01-02-2012, 05:39 AM
Chadman will just say, again, that when the players around him perform their jobs excellently, Timmons excels. Case in point today- the DL played very well, Harrison was back taking some of the blocking away from timmons- the result- outstanding game.

It all depends on what you expect from each INDIVIDUAL on the defense. Do you expect Harrison to cover WR's? Troy to nullify OL blockers?

Timmons is a missile, that, when given the right opportunities, can make game changing plays.

If you expect him to be an EVERYTHING player, you're looking at the wrong guy. But as a pass covering, fast, impact ILB that can tackle- he's your guy.

Oviedo
01-02-2012, 10:46 AM
Chadman will just say, again, that when the players around him perform their jobs excellently, Timmons excels. Case in point today- the DL played very well, Harrison was back taking some of the blocking away from timmons- the result- outstanding game.

It all depends on what you expect from each INDIVIDUAL on the defense. Do you expect Harrison to cover WR's? Troy to nullify OL blockers?

Timmons is a missile, that, when given the right opportunities, can make game changing plays.

If you expect him to be an EVERYTHING player, you're looking at the wrong guy. But as a pass covering, fast, impact ILB that can tackle- he's your guy.


:Agree :Agree

Some just can't quit questioning a decision that made in a draft years ago and actually watch what is happening on the field. Timmons was actually covering WRs yesterday. Pretty impressive for anyone willing to give credit where it is due because he has done that in spots all year long.

hawaiiansteel
01-02-2012, 02:55 PM
Chadman will just say, again, that when the players around him perform their jobs excellently, Timmons excels. Case in point today- the DL played very well, Harrison was back taking some of the blocking away from timmons- the result- outstanding game.

It all depends on what you expect from each INDIVIDUAL on the defense. Do you expect Harrison to cover WR's? Troy to nullify OL blockers?

Timmons is a missile, that, when given the right opportunities, can make game changing plays.

If you expect him to be an EVERYTHING player, you're looking at the wrong guy. But as a pass covering, fast, impact ILB that can tackle- he's your guy.


:Agree :Agree

Some just can't quit questioning a decision that made in a draft years ago and actually watch what is happening on the field. Timmons was actually covering WRs yesterday. Pretty impressive for anyone willing to give credit where it is due because he has done that in spots all year long.


$$$$

Timmons is by far our best coverage LB, something that is very necessary in today's pass-happy NFL.

pittpete
01-02-2012, 03:16 PM
Timmons played well yesterday, good for him and even better for the Steelers.
Heres to hoping he continues this type of play in Denver.
I'll take nothing less than 2 forced fumbles on Tebow.

Oviedo
01-02-2012, 03:51 PM
Chadman will just say, again, that when the players around him perform their jobs excellently, Timmons excels. Case in point today- the DL played very well, Harrison was back taking some of the blocking away from timmons- the result- outstanding game.

It all depends on what you expect from each INDIVIDUAL on the defense. Do you expect Harrison to cover WR's? Troy to nullify OL blockers?

Timmons is a missile, that, when given the right opportunities, can make game changing plays.

If you expect him to be an EVERYTHING player, you're looking at the wrong guy. But as a pass covering, fast, impact ILB that can tackle- he's your guy.


:Agree :Agree

Some just can't quit questioning a decision that made in a draft years ago and actually watch what is happening on the field. Timmons was actually covering WRs yesterday. Pretty impressive for anyone willing to give credit where it is due because he has done that in spots all year long.


$$$$

Timmons is by far our best coverage LB, something that is very necessary in today's pass-happy NFL.

He was drafted to do exactly that. Great forethought and an essential on any resume is a LB who can cover RBs and TEs.

steelsnis
01-05-2012, 11:28 PM
From D!ck Lebeau:


LeBeau on…

How the defense has played at a high level despite all of the injuries
“I think you have to give a great deal of the credit to Lawrence Timmons. He played about four different positions for us this year, that’s hard to do. Sometimes two or three of them in the same game, and that is really hard to do. He has been the guy that we have wheeled around as we have lost some of our players. I think the other factor is that they have all been in the same system, and they play it pretty well. The whole group has assimilated to each new guy as they came in there, and I am very proud of them.”

RuthlessBurgher
01-05-2012, 11:48 PM
From D!ck Lebeau:


LeBeau on…

How the defense has played at a high level despite all of the injuries
“I think you have to give a great deal of the credit to Lawrence Timmons. He played about four different positions for us this year, that’s hard to do. Sometimes two or three of them in the same game, and that is really hard to do. He has been the guy that we have wheeled around as we have lost some of our players. I think the other factor is that they have all been in the same system, and they play it pretty well. The whole group has assimilated to each new guy as they came in there, and I am very proud of them.”

Ehhh...what does he know?

:P

pittpete
01-06-2012, 12:14 AM
The old guys like 80 or something, he's senile :wink:

Oviedo
01-06-2012, 09:46 AM
From D!ck Lebeau:


LeBeau on…

How the defense has played at a high level despite all of the injuries
“I think you have to give a great deal of the credit to Lawrence Timmons. He played about four different positions for us this year, that’s hard to do. Sometimes two or three of them in the same game, and that is really hard to do. He has been the guy that we have wheeled around as we have lost some of our players. I think the other factor is that they have all been in the same system, and they play it pretty well. The whole group has assimilated to each new guy as they came in there, and I am very proud of them.”

Ehhh...what does he know?

:P

Yea, what does he know and how dare he complement Timmons who experts on this message board have already determined to be lacking. He doesn't even post at PlanetSteelers and how many games has he watched from his living room lately? Without those two qualifications I think we can safely discount anything he says. :wink:

feltdizz
01-06-2012, 09:49 AM
From D!ck Lebeau:


LeBeau on…

How the defense has played at a high level despite all of the injuries
“I think you have to give a great deal of the credit to Lawrence Timmons. He played about four different positions for us this year, that’s hard to do. Sometimes two or three of them in the same game, and that is really hard to do. He has been the guy that we have wheeled around as we have lost some of our players. I think the other factor is that they have all been in the same system, and they play it pretty well. The whole group has assimilated to each new guy as they came in there, and I am very proud of them.”

Ehhh...what does he know?

:P

exactly...

Timmons should be tearing it up at every position he plays. Dude is a bust.

This is a fact because I post on PlanetSteelers a lot!

pittpete
01-06-2012, 02:45 PM
Yes, just because a guy misses tackles on TV doesnt mean he misses them live.
Also, some TV's actually make a guy look like he is getting stonewalled while blitzing but that depends on the resolution :roll:

feltdizz
01-06-2012, 02:57 PM
Yes, just because a guy misses tackles on TV doesnt mean he misses them live.
Also, some TV's actually make a guy look like he is getting stonewalled while blitzing but that depends on the resolution :roll:

I don't expect someone who is playing 4 positions to never miss a tackle or get stonewalled.

Given how good he looked last year I think shuffling him around has something to do with has lack of splash plays this year.

pittpete
01-06-2012, 03:32 PM
Felt, that wasnt directed towards you.
I was just having a little fun.
I mean honestly what else would LeBeau say.

hawaiiansteel
01-07-2012, 04:13 AM
MarkKaboly_Trib via twitter:

Lawrence Timmons received one vote for All-Pro team. Love to know who voted for him.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... z1ikqBwC8f (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/#ixzz1ikqBwC8f)