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View Full Version : Let's not forget Tomlin said "It was a foul" on Thursday



SanAntonioSteelerFan
12-14-2011, 12:50 AM
In the post game interview, he said "it was a foul", that's a great way to stand by your team.

He didn't have to say that. He could have just kept his mouth shut. So now, as Labriola says, if Harrison appeals, Cottrell and Shell just play that clip and say, "Case closed - your out of here".

Yes, I'm p*d off.

SteelBucks
12-14-2011, 09:19 AM
IMO, it was a foul but it didn't warrant a suspension.

WindyCitySteel
12-14-2011, 09:33 AM
It's a foul by today's pussified rules, which would have made the Steelers of the mid-70s a .500 team.

BradshawsHairdresser
12-14-2011, 09:38 AM
In the post game interview, he said "it was a foul", that's a great way to stand by your team.

He didn't have to say that. He could have just kept his mouth shut. So now, as Labriola says, if Harrison appeals, Cottrell and Shell just play that clip and say, "Case closed - your out of here".

Yes, I'm p*d off.

+1

Slapstick
12-14-2011, 10:09 AM
It was also a foul by Phil Taylor when he hit Roethlisberger in the head.

So what?

ikestops85
12-14-2011, 10:11 AM
He said that because the officials threw a flag. Tomlin is a realist but just because he said it doesn't mean that's what he believed.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-14-2011, 10:58 AM
It was a foul. Harrison went directly at McCoy's upper body area with his helmet facing straight forward. He didn't attempt one bit to ensure that his shoulder made first contact. He could of laid just as devestating a hit on McCoy had he drilled him in the chest/stomach with his shoulder and ran right through him. But, it was a tackle during a quick decision play and thus should not warrent a suspension. Guys throwing punches and kicking post play deserve suspensions.

WindyCitySteel
12-14-2011, 11:00 AM
It was a foul. Harrison went directly at McCoy's upper body area with his helmet facing straight forward. He didn't attempt one bit to ensure that his shoulder made first contact. He could of laid just as devestating a hit on McCoy had he drilled him in the chest/stomach with his shoulder and ran right through him.

He would have still gotten the penalty, fine, and suspension.

feltdizz
12-14-2011, 12:11 PM
All the haters are saying they re-watched it in slow motion and it's obvious he led with his crown.

I wish I could live life in slow motion.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-14-2011, 12:56 PM
It was a foul. Harrison went directly at McCoy's upper body area with his helmet facing straight forward. He didn't attempt one bit to ensure that his shoulder made first contact. He could of laid just as devestating a hit on McCoy had he drilled him in the chest/stomach with his shoulder and ran right through him.

He would have still gotten the penalty, fine, and suspension.

No way. He probably wouldn't of been suspended had McCoy not suffered a concussion due to the hit. He certainly wouldn't of been suspended for tackling him legally with a shoulder drilled into his gut. Let's say McCoy was a ballcarrier and had the ball tucked like a runner....you should tackle with your shoulder in the gut and your hat on the ball, not with your head flying right at his head.

RuthlessBurgher
12-14-2011, 01:30 PM
All the haters are saying they re-watched it in slow motion and it's obvious he led with his crown.

I wish I could live life in slow motion.

Can time spent at work be fast-forwarded, though? :D

WindyCitySteel
12-14-2011, 01:59 PM
Now he's solidly backing Goodell.

Thanks for doing your team a solid, coach.

:nono

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_771881.html

Shawn
12-14-2011, 03:01 PM
This won't win me any friends but Harrison certainly led with the crown of his helmet...it was a penalty...and I agree with a hefty fine and a one game suspension.

At this point, I am more irritated with Harrison than I am with Goodell. Harrison knows the rules, he knows he is a target, he knows the next time he blows someone up with the crown of his helmet he will get suspended...yet he does it anyway? Are you serious?

Guys take your BnG glasses off for a second and realize you can't hit players like that according to today's rules. Whether you agree with the rule or not is irrelevant. It's a rule, you must abide, or you hurt your team.

Shawn
12-14-2011, 03:03 PM
Now he's solidly backing Goodell.

Thanks for doing your team a solid, coach.

:nono

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_771881.html

According to today's rules...it is a penalty. He wasn't backing Goodell, he was making a truthful statement. He is probably sick of Harrison leading with his head. I am as well.

pittpete
12-14-2011, 03:16 PM
Watch Ed Hoculi, he doesnt throw the flag until he sees McCoy unable to get up.
On full speed you cant see helmet to helmet, its impossible.
Slow mo you can see Harrisons helmet hit McCoys facemask.
What happens if McCoy was running out of the pocket and would have thrown the ball in the stands before he got nailed?
Would he still have been considered a passer?

There is no ? that there was helmet to helmet contact.
The problem is when a QB takes off, the only protection he should get is a slide.
CHANGE THE DAM RULES
That is why QB's make the big $$$$ and get all the glory.

Sugar
12-14-2011, 03:21 PM
It's amusing to me that even Deion Sanders (never one to be confused with a Steelers apologist) made the case that this should not have been penalized but some Steelers fans think it should have been. Harrison was driving toward the shoulder of a ball carrier who pulled up to throw. Guess where that put him?

Geez! :HeadBanger

Shawn
12-14-2011, 03:26 PM
Please. Why is it that Harrison has so many issues with these "unfair" penalties? Because he leads with the crown of his helmet. No doubt in my mind that Harrison was trying to blow McCoy up. I mean McCoy was in a throwing motion when Harrison lowers his head to deliver the blow. Personally, I'm fed up with Harrison. I'm surprised more Steeler fans are not upset with Harrison.

Shawn
12-14-2011, 03:28 PM
Watch Ed Hoculi, he doesnt throw the flag until he sees McCoy unable to get up.
On full speed you cant see helmet to helmet, its impossible.
Slow mo you can see Harrisons helmet hit McCoys facemask.
What happens if McCoy was running out of the pocket and would have thrown the ball in the stands before he got nailed?
Would he still have been considered a passer?

There is no ? that there was helmet to helmet contact.
The problem is when a QB takes off, the only protection he should get is a slide.
CHANGE THE DAM RULES
That is why QB's make the big $$$$ and get all the glory.

He was in a throwing motion behind the LOS. It's a no brainer penalty. If Harrison doesn't lower his helmet this isn't a conversation.

WindyCitySteel
12-14-2011, 03:37 PM
Watch Ed Hoculi, he doesnt throw the flag until he sees McCoy unable to get up.
On full speed you cant see helmet to helmet, its impossible.
Slow mo you can see Harrisons helmet hit McCoys facemask.
What happens if McCoy was running out of the pocket and would have thrown the ball in the stands before he got nailed?
Would he still have been considered a passer?

There is no ? that there was helmet to helmet contact.
The problem is when a QB takes off, the only protection he should get is a slide.
CHANGE THE DAM RULES
That is why QB's make the big $$$$ and get all the glory.

He was in a throwing motion behind the LOS. It's a no brainer penalty. If Harrison doesn't lower his helmet this isn't a conversation.

If Harrison doesn't lower his helmet, it's because he didn't lower his shoulders, which is required unless you want to tackle someone walking erect like Herman Munster.

**** it - take out the ****er's knee next time.

Shawn
12-14-2011, 03:42 PM
Watch Ed Hoculi, he doesnt throw the flag until he sees McCoy unable to get up.
On full speed you cant see helmet to helmet, its impossible.
Slow mo you can see Harrisons helmet hit McCoys facemask.
What happens if McCoy was running out of the pocket and would have thrown the ball in the stands before he got nailed?
Would he still have been considered a passer?

There is no ? that there was helmet to helmet contact.
The problem is when a QB takes off, the only protection he should get is a slide.
CHANGE THE DAM RULES
That is why QB's make the big $$$$ and get all the glory.

He was in a throwing motion behind the LOS. It's a no brainer penalty. If Harrison doesn't lower his helmet this isn't a conversation.

If Harrison doesn't lower his helmet, it's because he didn't lower his shoulders, which is required unless you want to tackle someone walking erect like Herman Munster.

bad word it - take out the bad word's knee next time.

I think you know what people are talking about when they say lowering of the helmet...meaning leading with the helmet. Being pissy won't change any of this...Harrison hit McCoy's helmet with his own...and he seems to be the only Steeler with this problem. Why do you think that is?

feltdizz
12-14-2011, 04:47 PM
Harrison isn't the only one hitting people with his helmet... but he is the only one knocking people out cold with is hits.

Harrison isn't dirty and he isn't using improper techniques... I've seen just as many H2H's by other teams.

I could see if Harrison took 4 or 5 steps and McCoy had is back to him but he was running right at him. McCoy still thinks he is at Texas and keeps putting his WR's and himself in danger.

Sugar
12-14-2011, 04:54 PM
I think you know what people are talking about when they say lowering of the helmet...meaning leading with the helmet. Being pissy won't change any of this...Harrison hit McCoy's helmet with his own...and he seems to be the only Steeler with this problem. Why do you think that is?

Because Harrison is short/compact. If you are 6'2" or 6'4" your angle on a hit is different than if you're shorter than the guys you're hitting. It's also one of the things that gives him such good leverage on lineman that are much larger.

Guys like Timmons, Farrior and Woodley wouldn't have this issue. When a guy compresses himself anticipating a hit, he moves right into the path of Deebo's head- just as we saw with McCoy. Just as Deion Sanders explained also, BTW.

Shawn
12-14-2011, 05:11 PM
Geez guys...this conversation is frustrating. We are busting out the physics books to explain away Harrison's tackling. Lets face it...Harrison is a mean son of a biscuit and he likes to knock people out. He seen McCoy running in open space and seen it as an opportunity to knock him out. I mean look at his own words...he thought the head shot was ok since he was a "runner" and "out of the pocket". His intention was to blow McCoy up...and he did it with the crown of his helmet. While I might not be able to convince another Steeler fan of this...it seems Tomlin himself is sick of Harrison not being able to play within the rules. We all should be.

ter1230_4
12-14-2011, 05:20 PM
If you remember, during the bye week Tomlin went to the NFL offices to discuss the personal fouls and fines in a meeting set up by Art III. This was after Tomlin publicly disputed the flag and fine against Ryan Clark in the Ravens game. I wasn't there, but I would be willing to bet that the NFL told Tomlin that he had to stop publicly disputing disciplinary decisions against Steelers players, or else he and/or the Steelers organization was going to start getting fined. Think about it, from the very beginning this alleged new policy has been about perception not reality. Goodell and his stooges want everybody in the NFL to say that they are playing by the new rules, so the perception will be that the NFL has done something for player safety. Everyone but the Steelers toed the company line by saying all the right things, and as a result every week I see mutiple hits made by other teams that are not flagged/fined that would be flagged/fined if made by a Steeler. And I see hits on the Steelers that would be flagged/fined if they were made against any other team but are not even flagged. The NFL has basically told the Steelers that until you toe the line like everyone else. you will not get those calls.

I really like James Harrison as a player, but he has no one to blame but himself. The week after he got the fine that started all of this in the game against the Browns the Steelers played the Dolphins and there was a play where Harrison held up on a hit that didn't need to be made. The next day, Ray Anderson who is Goodell's chief stooge in charge of discipline, praised Harrison for holdiing up on the hit which showed that he had changed the way he played in response to the League's new policy. All Harrison had to do was keep his mouth shut and he would have been fine. But no, he had to specifically contradict Anfderson and insult him in the process, and it's been war ever since. Now Tomlin has gotten the word, and anything he has to say that is critical of the NFL policy will be to his team behind closed doors, not in public. We all love the loner fighting authority story, like Cool Hand Luke. But just remember how that movie ended.

pittpete
12-14-2011, 05:57 PM
http://craigwolfley.com/

Bullsh-t
Only way u can see helmet to helmet is in slow motion
If McCoy doesnt pass the ball there isnt a helmet to helmet penalty.
What dont you understand?
If McCoy was 2 inches over the line theres no helmet to helmet by the rules.
The flag was only thrown when MCCoy couldnt get up.
Fine yes
Suspension no.
This is only going to get uglier.
Mike Franscesca yesterday was comparing this hit to a hit Lynn Swann took from Atkinson back in the day.
Atkinson hit Swann with a forearm to the back of the head away from the play and Swann dropped like he was shot.
This fat moron is comparing this play to one like that.
Harrison is not a cheap shot artist and shouldnt be known or compared to one.
Only latehit I know Harrison gave was the one to Brees.

The NFL is a business and they are scared now.
They are rushing to cover thier asses now.
Lawsuits are next from ex players, just watch...

Sugar
12-14-2011, 06:03 PM
Geez guys...this conversation is frustrating. We are busting out the physics books to explain away Harrison's tackling. Lets face it...Harrison is a mean son of a biscuit and he likes to knock people out. He seen McCoy running in open space and seen it as an opportunity to knock him out. I mean look at his own words...he thought the head shot was ok since he was a "runner" and "out of the pocket". His intention was to blow McCoy up...and he did it with the crown of his helmet. While I might not be able to convince another Steeler fan of this...it seems Tomlin himself is sick of Harrison not being able to play within the rules. We all should be.

You're right about that- this conversation is frustrating! You asked why James was getting these penalties and I explained it (in a similar way to how Deion Sanders did).

Yes, he saw what he thought was a runner in space and wanted to blow him up. He had no idea in that split-second that McCoy would pull up and pass, thus changing the target. It's really that simple.

Tomlin is merely a coach in the league. He can only say so much. The last time he praised a player that blew up an opponent he got hauled into the office for a "discussion." Do you think he's going to speak out again?

NJ-STEELER
12-14-2011, 06:42 PM
wolfly hinted that the way tomlin came out and said that...he thought he was mocking the league


rules are rules. for a QB in the pocket!!!!
mccoy had the ball tucked away and was a runner. thats not steelers colored glasses...thats a fact.
he pulled up just before contact to throw the ball

if the hit occured in the pocket, i dont think anyone here would argue its a penalty...thats where the QB is protected

MaxAMillion
12-14-2011, 09:32 PM
Tomlin said it was a foul because it clearly was a penalty. The only people who think differently are some Steeler fans. The argument is not whether it was a penalty, but rather what should the penalty be for a player who had to make a split second decision on the field.

Nothing Tomlin could say would change the fact that the NFL does not want players taking shots around the head. They are trying to prevent being found libel for the wave of lawsuits that are coming. Jim McMahon and others filed a lawsuit this summer against the league.

You may not like it, but the league will not back down from these new rules. They can't risk allowing football to be played like it was 20 years ago.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
12-14-2011, 11:17 PM
Tomlin said it was a foul because it clearly was a penalty. The only people who think differently are some Steeler fans.

Like Deion Sanders?


The argument is not whether it was a penalty, but rather what should the penalty be for a player who had to make a split second decision on the field.

Just because you say it doesn't make it so. There are people who know more than you and I who are questioning whether it should be a penalty to make a H2H hit on a QB that has tucked the ball and run, then pulls up at the last moment to throw. Deion Sanders is just one of them. For example: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... f-ruleboo/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/09/harrisons-hit-on-mccoy-could-fall-into-gray-area-of-ruleboo/)

Some people here seem to be taking the position that it MUST have been a foul, because it was H2H. Am I wrong that H2H is COMPLETELY WITHIN THE RULES OF THE GAME when tackling a runner?

It happens several times a game, in every NFL game - RBs are about to get tackled, they duck their head, there's H2H, then they get tackled. It happened in our last game ... look at some of the tackles that were made on Mendy.

What bothers me the most is the capriciousness in which these rules are enforced. It's un-American that a rule is ignored in some cases, and then penalized to the fullest extent of the "law" in others.

I really wish Harrison would sue the NFL for whatever the legal term is for keeping a man from making a living.

SteelBucks
12-15-2011, 08:34 AM
Am I wrong that H2H is COMPLETELY WITHIN THE RULES OF THE GAME when tackling a runner?


I'm sure some will interpret this differently but this is from the rulebook on why it's a penalty:


Article 9 It is a foul if a player initiates unnecessary contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture.

(a) Players in a defenseless posture are:
(1) A player in the act of or just after throwing a pass;
(2) A receiver attempting to catch a pass; or who has completed a catch and has not had time to protect himself or has not clearly become a runner. If the receiver/runner is capable of avoiding or warding off the impending contact of an opponent, he is no longer a defenseless player;
(3) A runner already in the grasp of a tackler and whose forward progress has been stopped;
(4) A kickoff or punt returner attempting to field a kick in the air;
(5) A player on the ground at the end of a play;
(6) A kicker/punter during the kick or during the return;
(7) A quarterback at any time after a change of possession, and
(8) A player who receives a “blindside” block when the blocker is moving toward his own endline and approaches the opponent from behind or from the side.

(b) Prohibited contact against a player who is in a defenseless posture is:
(1) Forcibly hitting the defenseless player’s head or neck area with the helmet, facemask, forearm, or shoulder, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the defenseless player by encircling or grasping him; and
(2) Lowering the head and making forcible contact with the top/crown or forehead/”hairline” parts of the helmet against any part of the defenseless player’s body.

Penalty: For unnecessary roughness: Loss of 15 yards. The player may be disqualified if the action is judged by the official(s) to be flagrant.

Dee Dub
12-15-2011, 02:20 PM
In the post game interview, he said "it was a foul", that's a great way to stand by your team.......


The surprising thing about what Tomlin said is it contradicts what he said last year.

Tomlin was visibly displeased last week that NFL vice president Ray Anderson praised Harrison for pulling up and not hitting Dolphins running back Ronnie Brown. Tomlin said it was "insulting" that anyone in the league office suggested the Steelers altered their style of play.

"It would be tough for me to care less about their opinion, to be honest with you," Tomlin said.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/0 ... 79021.html (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/11/04/james-harrison-fined-2000_n_779021.html)

I guess Tomlin has changed his thoughts on the Steelers needing to alter their style of play??