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Dee Dub
12-13-2011, 01:07 PM
"Harrison becomes the first player to be suspended for a helmet-to-helmet hit at a time when the NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has attempted to enforce enhanced player safety rules."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/73481 ... colt-mccoy (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7348112/pittsburgh-steelers-james-harrison-banned-1-game-hit-cleveland-browns-colt-mccoy)

When it's ok to have helmet to helmet contact with a RB or WR carrying the ball in the open field this statement is the biggest crock of you-know-what!!

What it should say is Roger Goodell doesnt give a crock about players safety except for QB's.

What a joke!!

And we havent Roger Goodell to blame. We have the NFL owners who put up with this garbage. Those are Goodell's boses.

steelblood
12-13-2011, 01:12 PM
"Harrison becomes the first player to be suspended for a helmet-to-helmet hit at a time when the NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has attempted to enforce enhanced player safety rules."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/73481 ... colt-mccoy (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7348112/pittsburgh-steelers-james-harrison-banned-1-game-hit-cleveland-browns-colt-mccoy)

When it's ok to have helmet to helmet contact with a RB or WR carrying the ball in the open field this statement is the biggest crock of you-know-what!!

What it should say is Roger Goodell doesnt give a crock about players safety except for QB's.

What a joke!!

And we havent Roger Goodell to blame. We have the NFL owners who put up with this garbage. Those are Goodell's boses.

I don't totally disagree, but they are also cracking down on head shots on defenseless receivers as well.

Dee Dub
12-13-2011, 01:16 PM
"Harrison becomes the first player to be suspended for a helmet-to-helmet hit at a time when the NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has attempted to enforce enhanced player safety rules."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/73481 ... colt-mccoy (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7348112/pittsburgh-steelers-james-harrison-banned-1-game-hit-cleveland-browns-colt-mccoy)

When it's ok to have helmet to helmet contact with a RB or WR carrying the ball in the open field this statement is the biggest crock of you-know-what!!

What it should say is Roger Goodell doesnt give a crock about players safety except for QB's.

What a joke!!

And we havent Roger Goodell to blame. We have the NFL owners who put up with this garbage. Those are Goodell's boses.

I don't totally disagree, but they are also cracking down on head shots on defenseless receivers as well.

I am not talking about players without the ball. It is a rule that in the open field when a player is running with the football, helmet to helmet contact is legal.

RuthlessBurgher
12-13-2011, 01:28 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":30ff8qx2]"Harrison becomes the first player to be suspended for a helmet-to-helmet hit at a time when the NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has attempted to enforce enhanced player safety rules."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/73481 ... colt-mccoy (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7348112/pittsburgh-steelers-james-harrison-banned-1-game-hit-cleveland-browns-colt-mccoy)

When it's ok to have helmet to helmet contact with a RB or WR carrying the ball in the open field this statement is the biggest crock of you-know-what!!

What it should say is Roger Goodell doesnt give a crock about players safety except for QB's.

What a joke!!

And we havent Roger Goodell to blame. We have the NFL owners who put up with this garbage. Those are Goodell's boses.

I don't totally disagree, but they are also cracking down on head shots on defenseless receivers as well.

I am not talking about players without the ball. It is a rule that in the open field when a player is running with the football, helmet to helmet contact is legal.[/quote:30ff8qx2]

Correct...when an offensive player is running with the ball, he is fair game for helmet-to-helmet hits (like Gocong hitting Mendenhall helmet-to-helmet at the goal line). You just can't hit a "defenseless" receiver in the head during the act of catching the ball (unless his name is Hines Ward, of course) and can't hit a "defenseless" QB in the head during the act of throwing the ball (unless his name in Ben Roethlisberger, of course). Harrison was treating McCoy as if he were a runner, since the ball was tucked under his arm and he was running toward the line of scrimmage...the issue arose when Colt suddenly pulled the ball up at the last second before Harrison hit him and threw it. Harrison saw McCoy as a non-defenseless runner with the ball tucked, and Goodell saw McCoy as a defenseless QB throwing the ball.

grotonsteel
12-13-2011, 01:39 PM
"Harrison becomes the first player to be suspended for a helmet-to-helmet hit at a time when the NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has attempted to enforce enhanced player safety rules."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/73481 ... colt-mccoy (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7348112/pittsburgh-steelers-james-harrison-banned-1-game-hit-cleveland-browns-colt-mccoy)

When it's ok to have helmet to helmet contact with a RB or WR carrying the ball in the open field this statement is the biggest crock of you-know-what!!

What it should say is Roger Goodell doesnt give a crock about players safety except for QB's.

What a joke!!

And we havent Roger Goodell to blame. We have the NFL owners who put up with this garbage. Those are Goodell's boses.


Well said Dee Dub...

**** NFL...and **** Goodell..What a tool is this guy.... David Stern and Goodell are pathetic...

Flag Football is going to turn mediocre players into good ones...

Dee Dub
12-13-2011, 01:48 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":3nsoj5op]"Harrison becomes the first player to be suspended for a helmet-to-helmet hit at a time when the NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has attempted to enforce enhanced player safety rules."

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/73481 ... colt-mccoy (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7348112/pittsburgh-steelers-james-harrison-banned-1-game-hit-cleveland-browns-colt-mccoy)

When it's ok to have helmet to helmet contact with a RB or WR carrying the ball in the open field this statement is the biggest crock of you-know-what!!

What it should say is Roger Goodell doesnt give a crock about players safety except for QB's.

What a joke!!

And we havent Roger Goodell to blame. We have the NFL owners who put up with this garbage. Those are Goodell's boses.

I don't totally disagree, but they are also cracking down on head shots on defenseless receivers as well.

I am not talking about players without the ball. It is a rule that in the open field when a player is running with the football, helmet to helmet contact is legal.

Correct...when an offensive player is running with the ball, he is fair game for helmet-to-helmet hits (like Gocong hitting Mendenhall helmet-to-helmet at the goal line). You just can't hit a "defenseless" receiver in the head during the act of catching the ball (unless his name is Hines Ward, of course) and can't hit a "defenseless" QB in the head during the act of throwing the ball (unless his name in Ben Roethlisberger, of course). Harrison was treating McCoy as if he were a runner, since the ball was tucked under his arm and he was running toward the line of scrimmage...the issue arose when Colt suddenly pulled the ball up at the last second before Harrison hit him and threw it. Harrison saw McCoy as a non-defenseless runner with the ball tucked, and Goodell saw McCoy as a defenseless QB throwing the ball.[/quote:3nsoj5op]

:Clap

Well said Ruthless.

Oviedo
12-13-2011, 02:42 PM
If I'm Harrison I'm going for everyone's knees from today forward!!!! Screw any sense of professional courtesy. His fellow union member aren't paying his fines or won't pay his bills when he is out of the league.

SidSmythe
12-13-2011, 03:30 PM
My insurance agent is an NFL umpire

I made the point to him that McCoy tucked the ball and ran.
He said "He's a QB, don't matter"
To which I replied, "If that was a RB he's open game"
He said, "That's right"

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
12-13-2011, 03:48 PM
My insurance agent is an NFL umpire

I made the point to him that McCoy tucked the ball and ran.
He said "He's a QB, don't matter"
To which I replied, "If that was a RB he's open game"
He said, "That's right"

When Harrison hit Cribbs last year, Cribbs was a wildcat QB. Of course he had crossed the line and was way outside the QB comfort zone, but JH was not fined for this hit with the explanation being that Cribbs was a runner so the hit was fine. Does it only matter if the QB is still behind the line?

Also, as cool as it is to have an insurance agent who is also an NFL official......isn't it time that the league looked outside of the insurance field for their on-field officials?

Leper Friend
12-13-2011, 04:03 PM
I'm as big of a Harrison fan as there is and I love the way he plays but he has to change his technique a little.He needs to learn to turn his body and lead with his shoulder at the moment of impact , or completely change his strike zone to below the waist.

We all knew the NFL was just waiting for this to happen. Fair or not , they're out to get him , it is what it is and it's not going to change. He'll just be hurting himself and the team unless he re-learns how to hit.

Eddie Spaghetti
12-13-2011, 04:52 PM
I hope jimmy hate doesn't change his style one damn bit.

moving up my list on all time favorite steelers.

Sugar
12-13-2011, 06:04 PM
I already own Hines, Ben, Troy and Lambert jerseys. It's time to get one for James Harrison!

Discipline of Steel
12-13-2011, 06:56 PM
I already own Hines, Ben, Troy and Lambert jerseys. It's time to get one for James Harrison!

all i can afford is a James Harrison Tshirt so that is all i have...i wear it everywear

DukieBoy
12-13-2011, 08:22 PM
My insurance agent is an NFL umpire

I made the point to him that McCoy tucked the ball and ran.
He said "He's a QB, don't matter"
To which I replied, "If that was a RB he's open game"
He said, "That's right"


Could you ask your agent/ump to explain why Ben gets no protections from hits in the head, hits low at the knees, late hits, etc Why the no-calls for Ben???

Please.

I am sure the board could supply you with video links to a mass of unsanctioned abuse of Ben and the rules.



Goodell is trying to make James his poster child for his mission to mess up the NFL. Just ridiculous. McCoy had that ball tucked in tight and running like Earnest Byner for about 6 steps.

SidSmythe
12-14-2011, 09:35 AM
My insurance agent is an NFL umpire

I made the point to him that McCoy tucked the ball and ran.
He said "He's a QB, don't matter"
To which I replied, "If that was a RB he's open game"
He said, "That's right"


Could you ask your agent/ump to explain why Ben gets no protections from hits in the head, hits low at the knees, late hits, etc Why the no-calls for Ben???

Please.

I am sure the board could supply you with video links to a mass of unsanctioned abuse of Ben and the rules.



Goodell is trying to make James his poster child for his mission to mess up the NFL. Just ridiculous. McCoy had that ball tucked in tight and running like Earnest Byner for about 6 steps.

I have to go see him ...i will ask him.
I won't let him off the hook either.



My insurance agent is an NFL umpire

I made the point to him that McCoy tucked the ball and ran.
He said "He's a QB, don't matter"
To which I replied, "If that was a RB he's open game"
He said, "That's right"

When Harrison hit Cribbs last year, Cribbs was a wildcat QB. Of course he had crossed the line and was way outside the QB comfort zone, but JH was not fined for this hit with the explanation being that Cribbs was a runner so the hit was fine. Does it only matter if the QB is still behind the line?

Also, as cool as it is to have an insurance agent who is also an NFL official......isn't it time that the league looked outside of the insurance field for their on-field officials?

I think he did that game last year. I will ask him about that too.
He doesn't work that hard. Has a nice lil' office with 2 office girls to do everything.

Shawn
12-14-2011, 03:21 PM
This really depends on what the QB was trying to do...was he trying to advance it past the LOS...was he a runner in the open field? Or was he merely outside of the pocket moving foward?

In the first case scenerio, he is not protected from head shots, in the second he is.

And that is the problem...the rules are ignorant. And trying to interpret them that quickly on the fly will present you problems. From my understanding of the rules, you must have clear evidence that the QB was trying to advance the ball past the LOS (whatever that means) in order to put that kind of hit on him. So, why in this environment would you lead with your head? Why give up your power to Goodell? It's just ignorant.

Solution? Stop hitting players in their head with the crown of your helmet. Problem solved.

WindyCitySteel
12-14-2011, 03:30 PM
I think it's begging the question to say James led with the crown. He put both forearms in McCoy's chest and blew him up. The helmet to helmet thing was incidental at best, because his head is attached to his ****ing shoulders.

The next time James dips to hit low and is jukes for a crucial first down or touchdown, I don't want to hear any bitching from the flag football crowd.

Shawn
12-14-2011, 03:33 PM
I think it's begging the question to say James led with the crown. He put both forearms in McCoy's chest and blew him up. The helmet to helmet thing was incidental at best, because his head is attached to his bad word shoulders.

The next time James dips to hit low and is jukes for a crucial first down or touchdown, I don't want to hear any bitching from the flag football crowd.

It's not about flag football, panties, panzies or anything else I have heard used to describe the rules. It's reality. And reality is we will face the SF 49r's without Harrison and that might be enough to cost us the game. He won't have the chance to be juked for a TD...because he won't be playing.

WindyCitySteel
12-14-2011, 03:33 PM
Great write-up on the hit. Probably not enough to stop some here from allowing Goodell's hand to guide their head down to his crotch, but good nonetheless.

http://sports-kings.com/?p=6327

Shawn
12-14-2011, 03:44 PM
Here is also a great write up.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/09/harrisons-hit-on-mccoy-could-fall-into-gray-area-of-ruleboo/

Keyplay1
12-14-2011, 04:41 PM
I don't know where I've been these past several decades. Not until the past couple-three years have I been hearing or seeing instances of these helmet involved penalties. I know I don't like them. I know I don't really see the justification of them being allowed on anyone including RB's. I don't know how damaging they are in regards to the concussion issue. BUT:

It has occurred to me that why in the world would anyone want to bash their own head into a brick wall. Are you telling me that Player A bashes his freaking head into Player B's, and Player A suffers nada nada trauma but Player B is subject to all kind of effects. There may be an explanation to this I don't know. Maybe the person delivering the bash is immune?? Got me! Can someone explain.

I know I said I was finished with this issue but this idea of using your own head as a weapon baffles me and I had to break my pledge.

feltdizz
12-14-2011, 04:53 PM
This really depends on what the QB was trying to do...was he trying to advance it past the LOS...was he a runner in the open field? Or was he merely outside of the pocket moving foward?

In the first case scenerio, he is not protected from head shots, in the second he is.

And that is the problem...the rules are ignorant. And trying to interpret them that quickly on the fly will present you problems. From my understanding of the rules, you must have clear evidence that the QB was trying to advance the ball past the LOS (whatever that means) in order to put that kind of hit on him. So, why in this environment would you lead with your head? Why give up your power to Goodell? It's just ignorant.

Solution? Stop hitting players in their head with the crown of your helmet. Problem solved.

Life isn't in slow motion... these things happen at a high speed and even if James uses the "proper" technique all it takes its a player to crunch up to protect himself to put James in a bad light.

James isn't head hunting... everyone thought McCoy was running until the last second. If I hear another Steeler hater point to the replay in slow motion as proof James dipped his head I'm gonna head butt someone.

The H2H is damn near impossible to see given the angle... James can't take his head off and roll it to the sideline while he hits a guy. It's attached to the shoulders and contact will be made.

McCoy needs to get his weight up and stop acting like this is JV football. Guys are trying to hit you... get down or stay down.

Shawn
12-14-2011, 05:03 PM
If that is the case why is James Harrison the only Steeler laying guys out with head shots? He is just being picked on? Come on guys.

WindyCitySteel
12-14-2011, 05:13 PM
If that is the case why is James Harrison the only Steeler laying guys out with head shots? He is just being picked on? Come on guys.

The Ravens have done it in both games against the Steelers, no flags, no caterwauling from the oppressed masses.

It happens in every game, we've just got a bullseye on our back.

RuthlessBurgher
12-14-2011, 07:03 PM
If that is the case why is James Harrison the only Steeler laying guys out with head shots? He is just being picked on? Come on guys.

Ryan Clark was fined 40K for a helmet to helmet hit (his second fine of the season after an earlier late hit out of bounds) in the same game in which Ray Lewis was not penalized, not fined, and not suspended on a concussion -inducing head shot of Hines Ward.

DukieBoy
12-14-2011, 07:31 PM
Here is also a great write up.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/09/harrisons-hit-on-mccoy-could-fall-into-gray-area-of-ruleboo/

So, what is the standards leading to a verdict?
Beyond a reasonable doubt?
Preponderance of the evidence?
A Decibel meter?
Caesar's Thumb up or down?

Seems this thing is too gray to take James to the next level of a suspension.

RuthlessBurgher
12-14-2011, 07:47 PM
Here is also a great write up.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/09/harrisons-hit-on-mccoy-could-fall-into-gray-area-of-ruleboo/

So, what is the standards leading to a verdict?

Caesar's Thumb up or down?

Ding ding ding! We have a winner.

Dee Dub
12-14-2011, 08:13 PM
Life isn't in slow motion... these things happen at a high speed and even if James uses the "proper" technique all it takes its a player to crunch up to protect himself to put James in a bad light.

James isn't head hunting... everyone thought McCoy was running until the last second. If I hear another Steeler hater point to the replay in slow motion as proof James dipped his head I'm gonna head butt someone.

The H2H is damn near impossible to see given the angle... James can't take his head off and roll it to the sideline while he hits a guy. It's attached to the shoulders and contact will be made.

McCoy needs to get his weight up and stop acting like this is JV football. Guys are trying to hit you... get down or stay down.

I got news for you Chief. Even if Harrison used the proper technique he very easily still could have gotten unnecessary roughness call. Here is the rule on protecting the QB.

No defensive player may run into a passer of a legal forward pass after the ball has left his hand (15 yards). The Referee must determine whether opponent had a reasonable chance to stop his momentum during an attempt to block the pass or tackle the passer while he still had the ball.

http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/protectionofpasser

In a nut shell, if Harrison simply wraps up McCoy properly, he still may have gotten the penalty. It's a judgment call based on whether the player had time to stop or not. The type of hit means very little when it comes to the QB. He now falls under the defenseless player label if he is in the act of throwing or have just finished throwing. He is now just like the kicker/punter. You can not hit them unless they are holding the ball not attempting to throw.

Read this...

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... der-review (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81ec8fca/article/illegal-hits-draw-more-scrutiny-replays-kickoffs-under-review)

Rules defining a defenseless player will be expanded and now will include eight categories:

A quarterback in the act of throwing;

A receiver trying to catch a pass;

A runner already in the grasp of tacklers and having his forward progress stopped;

A player fielding a punt or a kickoff;

A kicker or punter during the kick;

A quarterback at any time after change of possession;

A receiver who receives a blind-side block;

A player already on the ground.

Discipline of Steel
12-15-2011, 12:27 AM
My insurance agent is an NFL umpire

I made the point to him that McCoy tucked the ball and ran.
He said "He's a QB, don't matter"
To which I replied, "If that was a RB he's open game"
He said, "That's right"

When Harrison hit Cribbs last year, Cribbs was a wildcat QB. Of course he had crossed the line and was way outside the QB comfort zone, but JH was not fined for this hit with the explanation being that Cribbs was a runner so the hit was fine. Does it only matter if the QB is still behind the line?

Also, as cool as it is to have an insurance agent who is also an NFL official......isn't it time that the league looked outside of the insurance field for their on-field officials?

If i remember correctly, Cribbs was not over the line of scrimmage when he got jacked up. But he had no intention of passing either.

hawaiiansteel
12-15-2011, 01:33 AM
Steelers resigned to following NFL's dictate

By Scott Brown, PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Thursday, December 15, 2011

http://files.pittsburghlive.com/photos/2011-12-14/1215HarrisonSteelFrontCAP-b.jpg

Free safety Ryan Clark has expressed defiance, outrage and sheer anger at how the Steelers have been impacted by NFL commissioner Roger Goodell's crackdown on illegal hits.

The outspoken free safety took a different stance one day after the league suspended outside linebacker James Harrison for an important game in San Francisco.

"We want to try to figure out a way to be as physical as possible and to be as legal as possible," said Clark, the Steelers' union representative. "On the other (side) of that, when things don't go our way we need to shut up because obviously being who we are isn't working. Being outspoken about things and expressing our frustration in different manners than other people, that's not working for us.

"We're not going to call the commissioner, we're not going to set up meetings -- that's just not the players that we are. But I think as a team we need to stop talking about it."

Harrison, who was suspended for a helmet-to-helmet hit on Browns quarterback Colt McCoy, is appealing his punishment. The four-time Pro Bowler is not expected to get it overturned his official hearing was yesterday and the Steelers are preparing for their Monday night game against the 49ers as if they won't have Harrison.

Jason Worilds, who has been starting at left outside linebacker in place of the injured LaMarr Woodley, is expected to play in place of Harrison at right inside linebacker. Woodley, who hasn't played a full game since hurting his hamstring Oct. 30, practiced Wednesday, which puts him on track to play in San Francisco.

Woodley and Harrison haven't played an entire game together since the third week of the season.

Harrison had steered clear of any league discipline this season. But the league suspended him Tuesday for his fifth illegal hit on a quarterback, dating to 2009, and his status as a repeat offender.

Harrison's teammates generally chose their words carefully when talking about how his latest run-in with the league will affect the Steelers.

Cornerback Ike Taylor was one of the few who didn't hide his frustration over policies that many defensive players see as putting them at a competitive disadvantage or taking the essence out of football.

"I'll hit low instead of doing concussions, blow ACLs (knees) out, then what?" Taylor said. "Man, we have no control. Whatever decision they make, we just run with it whether we like it or not."

Steelers inside linebacker and defensive captain James Farrior agreed.

"When you get kicked out of the game or suspended that's hurting the team. We've got to be thinking about doing whatever we need to do not to hurt the team," Farrior said. "You want to play within the guidelines of the game and the rules, but you've got to still play football."

Clark said he is frustrated for Harrison on a personal level as well as a professional one.

Harrison isn't allowed in the Steelers' facility until Tuesday, and he has to watch his team try to win a game it badly needs as it chases a fourth AFC North title in five years.

"You just hate to see a teammate, you hate to see a friend be kind of ostracized, ridiculed when he's actually been working to do better," Clark said. "I couldn't imagine having to deal with what he's had to deal with the past two years. I know he's worked extremely hard to stay within the guidelines and it's his first offense this year, so that part frustrates me."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... z1gZhJ99Kb (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_772071.html#ixzz1gZhJ99Kb)