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SanAntonioSteelerFan
12-09-2011, 12:36 AM
Tunch on the radio brought up what I thought was a very reasonable point: "There's no helmet-to-helmet when tackling a RB - no longer a QB, and McCoy was a RB (scrambling, "out of the pocket"). So Harrison had every right to do a HTH." ((paraphrasing)

What do you guys think?

pittpete
12-09-2011, 12:37 AM
Have a point there, but its the Steelers were talking about here.

phillyesq
12-09-2011, 12:39 AM
I think it's a very good point. He ducked and started to run and was out of the pocket. At that point, I think he assumes the risk of being a ball carrier. But, since James Harrison hit McCoy in his lady parts, and since it's James Harrison, I'm sure there will be a fine.

Discipline of Steel
12-09-2011, 12:44 AM
'Multiple offender' could even get suspended, it depends on how bad Rogers yeast infection is this week.

papillon
12-09-2011, 12:52 AM
Shouldn't have been a flag, there shouldn't be a fine and Colt got tackled hard. I give McCoy credit, he didn't complain, he took the hit, got his head back together and came back into the game. I like him, he's got moxy. Goodell is an @ss clown, because, I know Harrison is getting fined for playing football, again.

Pappy

Steelgal
12-09-2011, 12:52 AM
I have 0 confidence in Goodell. I bet he gets suspended.

winwithd
12-09-2011, 12:57 AM
I am guessing it is a suspension, even though it appeared to me that he hit McCoy first with his hands. When has reality mattered to Goodell though.

hawaiiansteel
12-09-2011, 01:00 AM
Have a point there, but its the Steelers were talking about here.


and more specifically multiple offender James Harrison of the Pittsburgh Steelers.

I say $20,000 fine...

pittpete
12-09-2011, 01:01 AM
They just talked about this hit on NFL Network and in the background Deon and company were yelling he was a runner and out of the pocket, shouldnt have been a flag...

Shoe
12-09-2011, 01:02 AM
I am guessing it is a suspension, even though it appeared to me that he hit McCoy first with his hands. When has reality mattered to Goodell though.

It's impossible to suspend him when the QB (at that point a runner) is roaming free... how can you say where you tackle anyone on his body in the open field--it's all you can do to just bring the guy down!

Now that being said, he will get fined because he's "James Harrison". But fine? That would be ridiculous.

DukieBoy
12-09-2011, 01:04 AM
I am guessing James gets suspended 2 games, and fined $75K, nonw of which is deserved because McCoy was out of the pocket and running the football until James left his coverage and came to tackle him, and McCoy lowered his head just before the contact. James did not leave his feet, and made a normal solid clean football play.

Mel Blount's G
12-09-2011, 03:00 AM
What pappy said

Goodell has been ruining my favorite game since he got his job

Steelerphile
12-09-2011, 06:31 AM
I think it will be $40,000.00 at least. It reminded me a little bit of the Massaquio hit last season. He got flagged this time. I think they will say Harrison lead with the helmet instead of the shoulder. I know how difficult it is to detach the head from the rest of the body and only hit players in a particular place without any helmet contact. The way Goodell and his administration are giving out fines, they don't have any sympathy.

I think huge fines should be confined to clearly intentional infractions. There are so few of those and they are judgement calls also.

Keyplay1
12-09-2011, 07:53 AM
By the time this play is reviewed by the "League Office" it will probably be lost in the shuffle. Here are some rulings from a past week. This was from Week 4.

Total through Week 3: 19 fines, $235,000.
Zebra Blog fine meter
$ 3 6 0, 0 0 0
FINES 2 8 SUSP 0

* Patriots defensive lineman Richard Seymour, $7,500 for unnecessary roughness and $7,500 for facemask foul.
* Patriots safety Patrick Chung, $7,500 for unnecessary roughness.
* Ravens defensive tackle Haloti Ngata, $15,000 for leading with helmet on a tackle. The hit resulted in a fumble returned for a touchdown, which should have been nullified by penalty.
* Steelers center Maurkice Pouncey, $7,500 for unnecessary roughness.
* 49ers tackle Anthony Davis, $25,000, two leg whip penalties.
* Bears safety Brandon Meriweather, $20,000 for a helmet-to-helmet hit (as a repeat offender).
* Eagles defensive end Jason Babin, $15,000 for a hit to the quarterback’s neck.
* Redskins special teamer Niles Paul, $20,000 for hit on a defenseless receiver.

This week: 9 fines, $125,000

Miami Dolphins S Tyrone Culver fined $20k for hit against Buffalo Bills
by Ben Volin

Culver, a fifth-year veteran who is making $700,000 this year, was fined $20,000 for striking a defenseless player in the head and neck area, according to a league spokesman. The fine for most unnecessary roughness penalties is $15,000 – safety Yeremiah Bell has been fined that amount two different times this year – but the league office determined that Culver’s hit was especially egregious.

Incidentally, the Commissioner has nothing to do with these rulings. There was a huge thread on this stuff recently and that was made clear. Nonetheless he does seem to get all the credit for these rulings by the "League Office" which has been around for many many years long before this new guys tenure. But here is what some fans think anyhow. These comments were from some Miami fans.

"goodell and this nfl need to make these stupid fines because it is there form of bonus’s. out of the 20,000.00 culver was fined, goodell just got a 15,000.00 christmas bonus. its all about money, and this extra revenue they get from fining these players is just they’re form of getting bonuses. goodell you crook, looks like christmas came early for you, you dam crook."

"This is BS, tyrone doesn’t make enough money where those fines dont affect him hes not a starter or anything thats a big 20,000 comming out of his paycheck, and he led with his shoulder and the receiver had enough time to duck his head. Fxxk you goodell your a moron."

These were some of the milder fan responses. As far as the Commish goes he might not even be aware of these rulings. He probably has more important things to take care of like maybe get out on the street selling Troy Polamalu, Ben Roethlisberger and James Harrison jerseys. Stuff like that.

Discipline of Steel
12-09-2011, 08:13 AM
By the time this play is reviewed by the "League Office" it will probably be lost in the shuffle. Here are some rulings from a past week. This was from Week 4.

Total through Week 3: 19 fines, $235,000.
Zebra Blog fine meter
$ 3 6 0, 0 0 0
FINES 2 8 SUSP 0

* Patriots defensive lineman Richard Seymour, $7,500 for unnecessary roughness and $7,500 for facemask foul.
* Patriots safety Patrick Chung, $7,500 for unnecessary roughness.
* Ravens defensive tackle Haloti Ngata, $15,000 for leading with helmet on a tackle. The hit resulted in a fumble returned for a touchdown, which should have been nullified by penalty.

* Steelers center Maurkice Pouncey, $7,500 for unnecessary roughness.
* 49ers tackle Anthony Davis, $25,000, two leg whip penalties.
* Bears safety Brandon Meriweather, $20,000 for a helmet-to-helmet hit (as a repeat offender).
* Eagles defensive end Jason Babin, $15,000 for a hit to the quarterback’s neck.
* Redskins special teamer Niles Paul, $20,000 for hit on a defenseless receiver.

This week: 9 fines, $125,000

Miami Dolphins S Tyrone Culver fined $20k for hit against Buffalo Bills
by Ben Volin

Culver, a fifth-year veteran who is making $700,000 this year, was fined $20,000 for striking a defenseless player in the head and neck area, according to a league spokesman. The fine for most unnecessary roughness penalties is $15,000 – safety Yeremiah Bell has been fined that amount two different times this year – but the league office determined that Culver’s hit was especially egregious.

Incidentally, the Commissioner has nothing to do with these rulings. There was a huge thread on this stuff recently and that was made clear. Nonetheless he does seem to get all the credit for these rulings by the "League Office" which has been around for many many years long before this new guys tenure. But here is what some fans think anyhow. These comments were from some Miami fans.

"goodell and this nfl need to make these stupid fines because it is there form of bonus’s. out of the 20,000.00 culver was fined, goodell just got a 15,000.00 christmas bonus. its all about money, and this extra revenue they get from fining these players is just they’re form of getting bonuses. goodell you crook, looks like christmas came early for you, you dam crook."

"This is BS, tyrone doesn’t make enough money where those fines dont affect him hes not a starter or anything thats a big 20,000 comming out of his paycheck, and he led with his shoulder and the receiver had enough time to duck his head. Fxxk you goodell your a moron."

These were some of the milder fan responses. As far as the Commish goes he might not even be aware of these rulings. He probably has more important things to take care of like maybe get out on the street selling Troy Polamalu, Ben Roethlisberger and James Harrison jerseys. Stuff like that.

Bullcrap. No Goodell is the architect of the new NFL.

DukieBoy
12-09-2011, 08:47 AM
Tunch on the radio brought up what I thought was a very reasonable point: "There's no helmet-to-helmet when tackling a RB - no longer a QB, and McCoy was a RB (scrambling, "out of the pocket"). So Harrison had every right to do a HTH." ((paraphrasing)

What do you guys think?

If "out of the pocket" does not matter in James' hit on McCoy, then by that standard, "out of the pocket should not matter when Paxson went low on the legs when he took out Ben. What's more, Ben was still a passer in that case, still looking to throw, whereas McCoy looked like a runner, pulling up to pass at the last second when he saw James was about to sack him, and then lowering his body (and head) to absorb James' hit.

James will be fined, big, and I think he will be suspended for at least one game, amybe two. Paxson will get nothing, of course. Goodell and Co. have painted themselves into a corner with regard to James. They have vilified him and made him a poster child for a problem that is much bigger than any one player. Their only choice to overdisciplining James is to destroy their "credibility" on this issue and and as a whole (not that they have much credibility left).

Keyplay1
12-09-2011, 08:58 AM
Discipline of Steel said "Bullcrap. No Goodell is the architect of the new NFL."

I tend to agree with that. But, in regards to all these rulings and fines those are done by the NFL Director of Football Operations Office.

Gerry Dulac wrote an article last year when the Steelers were getting all those fines and he pointed out who was involved. Certainly, Goodell has to be factored in there somehow.

But the facts were that those defenseless player rules were around in the 90's and some of the fines and disciplines then were really big. But, the Steelers were not directly affected then. And why not, since the Steelers have always been at the forefront in clean play and competing within the rules.

Keyplay1
12-09-2011, 01:40 PM
I think it will be $40,000.00 at least. It reminded me a little bit of the Massaquio hit last season. He got flagged this time. I think they will say Harrison lead with the helmet instead of the shoulder. I know how difficult it is to detach the head from the rest of the body and only hit players in a particular place without any helmet contact. The way Goodell and his administration are giving out fines, they don't have any sympathy.

I think huge fines should be confined to clearly intentional infractions. There are so few of those and they are judgement calls also.

When the flag was thrown I thought McCoy was being penalized for crossing the Line of Scrimmage. After watching the replay it looked like the helmet contact was incidental. But like you mentioned, the way they have gone nuts handing out these fines JHar will probably not slip by. And then this will be yet another marginal call on him.

I'm now wondering if James Farrior will be fined for brushing McCoy out of bounds. It looked like he was screened by Harrison and got caught trying to avoid JHar when he clearly unintentionally bumped into McCoy. This is a case then of a player with a nearly perfectly clean long time record and reputation as an above the line rule abiding player getting stained by the leagues new nut-case fine policy.

snarky
12-09-2011, 01:48 PM
I'm sure if Goodell could fine James Harrison for getting off, he would.

feltdizz
12-09-2011, 01:59 PM
He will be fined and suspended....

pittpete
12-09-2011, 03:37 PM
Mike Francesca of WFAN in NY is on the radio now raging about how Harrison should be suspended.
How he is a dirty player and other are saying Suh is a schoolboy compared to what Harrison does.
He keeps going on about how Harrison led with his helmet and any hemet to helmet hit in this league is a penalty and fineable.

AkronSteel
12-09-2011, 04:18 PM
He will get fined and possibly suspended because that is what ESPN and all the other idiots in the media want. It is truly stupid to me. What is the guy suppose to do? He is playing defense. Isn't it funny to anyone that Phil Taylor can through a left hook to BB helmet and no one is talking about that but Harrison lays a hit on Colt and that is all anyone is talking about today. Stupid, I tell ya......just plain stupid!!!

NorthCoast
12-09-2011, 07:08 PM
Who made the hit has everything to do with how this will play out. Harrison will be LUCKY to escape with only a fine. My guess $75K min. and maybe one game.

hawaiiansteel
12-09-2011, 07:14 PM
Harrison will be LUCKY to escape with only a fine. My guess $75K min. and maybe one game.


after listening to the talking heads on tv today I'm gonna say no suspension and an $80k fine...

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/1209/nfl_g_mccpy_sy_600.jpg

Mister Pittsburgh
12-09-2011, 10:16 PM
The browns defender paxon contacted bens knee first. Is there not a rule about hitting a QB low?

SteelCrazy
12-09-2011, 11:18 PM
Too much talk in the media about a suspension for it not to happen. Harrison suspended for 1 maybe 2 games.

Mister Pittsburgh
12-09-2011, 11:40 PM
If he does get suspended, which would be complete & utter BS, woodley @ kiln & worlds @ rolb?

ikestops85
12-10-2011, 12:35 AM
He will be fined and suspended....

:Agree

This is going to be a six figure fine and hopefully only a one game suspension. This is the only time I think Harrison is deserving of some sort of punishment. There was absolutely no reason for him to hit McCoy directly in the face mask. Nobody was blocking or pushing him and McCoy was a stable target.

Sorry James but this time I think you are guilty. Of course that opinion is only valid if McCoy was supposed to still be treated as a QB. I, much like the officials, am not clear on the rules about a scrambling QB so I have to put that disclaimer on.

hawaiiansteel
12-10-2011, 01:21 AM
League’s explanation of hit on McCoy doesn’t bode well for Harrison

Posted by Mike Florio on December 9, 2011

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/harrison1-e1323464591206.jpg?w=250

The Browns likely are in hot water for allowing quarterback Colt McCoy to play with a concussion. Steelers linebacker James Harrison apparently will be in hot water for giving it to him.

We explained earlier today that the rule book contains language supporting Harrison’s belief that McCoy was fair game for a helmet-to-helmet hit because he was running with the ball toward the line of scrimmage before flipping it at the last instant to running back Montarrio Hardesty. But the league has sent to PFT an explanation of the roughing the passer penalty called on Harrison, and the league’s explanation suggests that Harrison will be facing discipline next week.

“In the fourth quarter of the Cleveland Browns-Pittsburgh Steelers game last night, Steelers linebacker James Harrison was penalized for roughing the passer,” the league said. “Rule 12, Section 2, Article 13(8) and (3) of the NFL Rule Book (page 75-76) is applicable to the roughing the passer penalty called against Harrison.

“When a passer is outside the pocket area as in the case of Cleveland quarterback Colt McCoy last night, he is still afforded the protection of Rule 12, Section 2, Article 13 (3), which prohibits defensive players from using their helmet against a passer who is in a defenseless posture, including by “forcibly hitting the passer’s head or neck area with the helmet or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the passer by encircling or grasping him.”

The text of the applicable rules appears after the break.

Rule 12, Section 2, Article 13(8) contains language that could give Harrison a safe harbor based on the fact that McCoy was running with the ball toward the line of scrimmage before he flipped the ball to Hardesty, by exempting from the rule any quarterback who is “attempting to advance the ball as a runner.” So I specifically asked league spokesman Greg Aiello whether McCoy would be viewed as “attempting to advance the ball as a runner.”

In response, Aiello pointed out the presence of the following clause, from the same rule: “or throws while on the run.” This apparently means that, in the league’s view, the fact that McCoy threw while running with the ball brought him within the protection against blows to the head, even if he was before throwing the ball “attempting to advance the ball as a runner.”

As a result, Harrison most likely will be hearing from the league next Tuesday. Given his history — three fines last year for hits on quarterbacks and one for unnecessary roughness for a total post-appeal amount of $57,500 — Harrison now faces a significant fine, and possibly a suspension.

HITS TO PASSER’S HEAD AND USE OF HELMET AND FACEMASK

(3) In covering the passer position, Referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defenders impermissibly use the helmet and/or facemask to hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or other parts of the body to hit the passer forcibly in the head or neck area (see also the other unnecessary-roughness rules covering these subjects). A defensive player must not use his helmet against a passer who is in a defenseless posture for example, (a) forcibly hitting the passer’s head or neck area with the helmet or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the passer by encircling or grasping him, or (b) lowering the head and making forcible contact with the top/crown or forehead/”hairline” parts of the helmet against any part of the passer’s body. This rule does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on a passer.

PASSER OUT OF THE POCKET

(8) When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the one-step rule provided for in (1) above, and the protection against a low hit provided for in (5) above, but he remains covered by all the other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket (numbers 2, 3, 4, 6, and 7), as well as the regular unnecessary-roughness rules applicable to all player positions. If the passer stops behind the line and clearly establishes a passing posture, he will then be covered by all of the special protections for passers.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -harrison/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/09/leagues-explanation-of-hit-on-mccoy-doesnt-bode-well-for-harrison/)

Steel Life
12-10-2011, 01:35 AM
Thoughts...
1. McCoy flops like a rag-doll when hit...on both Farrior's & Harrison's hit that kid flew off his feet. Perhaps his lack of size contributes to how bad it looked.
2. I don't enough movement from McCoy to provide a defense for the hit...but I hope there are multiple shots of it for them to consider.
3. They need better clarification of the "out of the pocket" rule...no one understands it. This would also apply to Gay's penalty illegal contact...that was ridiculous.
4. 12 penalties on the Steelers last night? Really?!?
5. I hope that Deion Sanders' rant has an affect on those who determine the penalty.
6. That said, I don't think the NFL passes up an opportunity to punish Harrison. Even Eisen quipped about jokes where Harrison get fined for other player's hits - he'll be made an example of while Richard Seymour will get a slap on the wrist.

Discipline of Steel
12-10-2011, 02:41 AM
League’s explanation of hit on McCoy doesn’t bode well for Harrison

Posted by Mike Florio on December 9, 2011

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/harrison1-e1323464591206.jpg?w=250

The Browns likely are in hot water for allowing quarterback Colt McCoy to play with a concussion. Steelers linebacker James Harrison apparently will be in hot water for giving it to him.

We explained earlier today that the rule book contains language supporting Harrison’s belief that McCoy was fair game for a helmet-to-helmet hit because he was running with the ball toward the line of scrimmage before flipping it at the last instant to running back Montarrio Hardesty. But the league has sent to PFT an explanation of the roughing the passer penalty called on Harrison, and the league’s explanation suggests that Harrison will be facing discipline next week.

“In the fourth quarter of the Cleveland Browns-Pittsburgh Steelers game last night, Steelers linebacker James Harrison was penalized for roughing the passer,” the league said. “Rule 12, Section 2, Article 13(8) and (3) of the NFL Rule Book (page 75-76) is applicable to the roughing the passer penalty called against Harrison.

“When a passer is outside the pocket area as in the case of Cleveland quarterback Colt McCoy last night, he is still afforded the protection of Rule 12, Section 2, Article 13 (3), which prohibits defensive players from using their helmet against a passer who is in a defenseless posture, including by “forcibly hitting the passer’s head or neck area with the helmet or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the passer by encircling or grasping him.”

The text of the applicable rules appears after the break.

Rule 12, Section 2, Article 13(8) contains language that could give Harrison a safe harbor based on the fact that McCoy was running with the ball toward the line of scrimmage before he flipped the ball to Hardesty, by exempting from the rule any quarterback who is “attempting to advance the ball as a runner.” So I specifically asked league spokesman Greg Aiello whether McCoy would be viewed as “attempting to advance the ball as a runner.”

In response, Aiello pointed out the presence of the following clause, from the same rule: “or throws while on the run.” This apparently means that, in the league’s view, the fact that McCoy threw while running with the ball brought him within the protection against blows to the head, even if he was before throwing the ball “attempting to advance the ball as a runner.”

As a result, Harrison most likely will be hearing from the league next Tuesday. Given his history — three fines last year for hits on quarterbacks and one for unnecessary roughness for a total post-appeal amount of $57,500 — Harrison now faces a significant fine, and possibly a suspension.

HITS TO PASSER’S HEAD AND USE OF HELMET AND FACEMASK

(3) In covering the passer position, Referees will be particularly alert to fouls in which defenders impermissibly use the helmet and/or facemask to hit the passer, or use hands, arms, or other parts of the body to hit the passer forcibly in the head or neck area (see also the other unnecessary-roughness rules covering these subjects). A defensive player must not use his helmet against a passer who is in a defenseless posture for example, (a) forcibly hitting the passer’s head or neck area with the helmet or facemask, regardless of whether the defensive player also uses his arms to tackle the passer by encircling or grasping him, or (b) lowering the head and making forcible contact with the top/crown or forehead/”hairline” parts of the helmet against any part of the passer’s body. This rule does not prohibit incidental contact by the mask or non-crown parts of the helmet in the course of a conventional tackle on a passer.

PASSER OUT OF THE POCKET

(8) When the passer goes outside the pocket area and either continues moving with the ball (without attempting to advance the ball as a runner) or throws while on the run, he loses the protection of the one-step rule provided for in (1) above, and the protection against a low hit provided for in (5) above, but he remains covered by all the other special protections afforded to a passer in the pocket (numbers 2, 3, 4, 6, and 7), as well as the regular unnecessary-roughness rules applicable to all player positions. If the passer stops behind the line and clearly establishes a passing posture, he will then be covered by all of the special protections for passers.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -harrison/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/09/leagues-explanation-of-hit-on-mccoy-doesnt-bode-well-for-harrison/)

thats ridiculous. Its more complicated than the US Constitution. Page 75-76??? a zillion cross references... Indeed the work of a lawyer. No offense PhillyEsq

flippy
12-10-2011, 07:46 AM
I hope he gets a huge fine. The bigger the better. $250k. $500k.

C'Mon Goodell. Make James angry.

Do you want to see James angry? I do.

That's exactly what this team needs.

But don't fine him so much that he takes the ball and goes home. There's a fine line. But please oh please make the man mad.

Cause right now, he's playing like a softie.

Keyplay1
12-10-2011, 09:51 AM
He will be fined and suspended....

Gold: ikestops85 said: "This is going to be a six figure fine and hopefully only a one game suspension. This is the only time I think Harrison is deserving of some sort of punishment. There was absolutely no reason for him to hit McCoy directly in the face mask. Nobody was blocking or pushing him and McCoy was a stable target.

Sorry James but this time I think you are guilty. Of course that opinion is only valid if McCoy was supposed to still be treated as a QB. I, much like the officials, am not clear on the rules about a scrambling QB so I have to put that disclaimer on.


Green: No doubt JHar will be fined. But I don't think he will get a suspension. I'm not sure but isn't this his 1st offense of this type this season? If so, that will help some.

After really watching the play a few times and even wearing my black and gold glasses, there is no doubt the play warranted a penalty.

This was not good judgment on the part of JHar. But I don't think the helmet phase of this penalty could be considered flagrant so no suspension is called for.

Gold: AkronSteel said: "He will get fined and possibly suspended because that is what ESPN and all the other idiots in the media want. It is truly stupid to me. What is the guy suppose to do? He is playing defense. Isn't it funny to anyone that Phil Taylor can through a left hook to BB helmet and no one is talking about that but Harrison lays a hit on Colt and that is all anyone is talking about today. Stupid, I tell ya......just plain stupid!!!

Gold: Mr Pittsburgh said: "The browns defender paxon contacted bens knee first. Is there not a rule about hitting a QB low?


Gold: DukieBoy said: "If "out of the pocket" does not matter in James' hit on McCoy, then by that standard, "out of the pocket should not matter when Paxson went low on the legs when he took out Ben. What's more, Ben was still a passer in that case, still looking to throw, whereas McCoy looked like a runner, pulling up to pass at the last second when he saw James was about to sack him, and then lowering his body (and head) to absorb James' hit.

Green: Exactly what I'm thinking. All those hits on Ben were illegal. No one cares. [excepting Steeler Nation]. This guy bashing Bens skull, another one trying to break his leg, actually Ben was hit low a couple other times too. Anyway, if James Harrisons almost unavoidable penalty is being considered a suspendable offense then these other bas-tards should be getting 2-5 years in Western Penn. Throw in a couple of those media rabble rousers too.

BTW: That Green Gold stuff is to tell who said what. My replies are green. It would be nice to actually switch the colors but mine won't work.

hawaiiansteel
12-11-2011, 01:20 AM
FRIDAY, DECEMBER 09, 2011
posted by Dale Lolley

I don't see Harrison being suspended

I just don't see linebacker James Harrion getting suspended for his hit on Cleveland quarterback Colt McCoy Thursday night. A stiff fine in the $40,000 range? Sure.

But he hasn't had a helmet-to-helmet hit this season.

Heck Ray Lewis has had two in the past two years as well, but he got fined the minimum for the hit on Ward, his second in two seasons.

The NFL seems to have reset the clock this year, even though it says it didn't.

Steelers safety Ryan Clark's big fine came on his second offense, even though he had also been fined last season.

People are comparing this to Ndomukong Suh, but Suh had multiple infractions both this year and last. And, I might add, what he did came after a play was over. His stomp that was the final straw wasn't done in the context of playing the game.

http://www.observer-reporter.com/or/sidelines/

skyhawk
12-11-2011, 01:48 AM
Dam, I hate this new influx (new fine league)

hawaiiansteel
12-11-2011, 02:05 AM
Suspension remains very possible for James Harrison

Posted by Mike Florio on December 10, 2011


Two weeks ago, the football-following public got a crash course on the procedures that apply to suspensions for on-field infractions, thanks to Lions defensive tackle Ndamukong Suh. And that knowledge could quickly be put to use this week, given the helmet-to-face hit applied by Steelers linebacker James Harrison on Browns quarterback Colt McCoy.

On Monday, league executives Ray Anderson and Merton Hanks will convene to determine the punishment, if any, to be imposed on Harrison for the hit. Given the league’s explanation of the relevant rules, Harrison’s belief that McCoy was acting as a runner likely will be undermined significantly by the fact that McCoy actually threw the ball.

Working against Harrison will be his history of fines. Last year, Harrison paid a post-appeal total of $57,500 for four incidents. And while the fact that McCoy flipped the ball as he approached the line of scrimmage could work in Harrison’s favor, watch the hit. Harrison dropped his helmet and planted the crown of it into McCoy’s chin, a move that was unnecessary, even if it somehow was legal.

And just as Suh’s lack of remorse surely didn’t help him last month, the over-the-top remarks from a July interview with Men’s Journal won’t help Harrison. “If that man was on fire and I had to piss to put him out,” Harrison said of Commissioner Roger Goodell, “I wouldn’t do it. I hate him and will never respect him.”

Harrison also posed for a photo with a pair of guns, called Goodell a “crook” and a “devil” and a “puppet” and a “dictator,” and Harrison described Goodell with a gay slur.

If Anderson and/or Hanks decide that the time has come to get Harrison’s attention by parking him for a week, Harrison would immediately be suspended pending an expedited review. Either Art Shell or Ted Cottrell — jointly hired and paid by the league and the union — would handle the appeal. A decision would come before the Steelers’ next game, on Monday, December 19 in San Francisco.

No decisions have been made about Harrison, but folks in the league office undoubtedly are already pondering the situation. The more we look at the video of the hit, the less surprised we’d be if Harrison is suspended.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -harrison/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/12/10/suspension-remains-very-possible-for-james-harrison/)

Discipline of Steel
12-11-2011, 09:46 AM
Does Florio write a Steelers column of some kind because he is a :Hater

hawaiiansteel
12-11-2011, 01:50 PM
Ron Cook: Harrison deserves hefty fine

Sunday, December 11, 2011
By Ron Cook, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/images/201112/thehit1211_330.jpg

The NFL will review linebacker James Harrison's hit Thursday night on Cleveland Browns quarterback Colt McCoy, which resulted in a 15-yard personal foul penalty on Harrison for helmet-to-helmet contact. The league will fine Harrison heavily, perhaps even suspend him considering his history of similar hits. The Steelers will scream NFL commissioner Roger Goodell is out to get them and is especially targeting Harrison.

Harrison will smolder and say he was wronged, although he will stop short of calling Goodell a "crook," a "devil" and a gay slur, as he did in a magazine article in the summer. The team will move on and take out all of the anger on the 49ers.

Sound about right?

There is no way Harrison avoids a stiff fine. There is no way he should. His hit on McCoy in the Steelers' 14-3 win is exactly the hit the NFL wants to take out of the game. It was much worse than safety Ryan Clark's hit on Baltimore Ravens tight end Ed Dickson Nov. 6. That hit resulted in a $40,000 fine for Clark and prompted outrage from everyone in the Steelers organization from coach Mike Tomlin, who called the fine "excessive," to the players, who went on another rant about Goodell and his unlimited disciplinary power even though their union signed off on it in the new Collective Bargaining Agreement.

A $50,000 fine for Harrison, perhaps?

Maybe $75,000?

It seems unlikely that Harrison will be suspended. Nor should he be. This was his first personal foul this season. He has done a much better job playing by the rules, yet has managed to keep his image as the NFL's most ferocious player.

But that's just one man's view. A lot of national media are calling for the NFL to come down hard on Harrison. They point to the $100,000 he was fined last season for four different hits. They say he still hasn't learned the difference between a legal hit and one that can knock a player into next week.

It's not hard to imagine the terror McCoy felt when he saw Harrison coming. He had just scrambled to his left and dumped a short pass to running back Montario Hardesty midway through the fourth quarter. McCoy had to know he was going to take a brutal hit because he had just released the ball. Harrison certainly didn't get to him late. But McCoy was right to have the reasonable expectation that he wouldn't take a vicious shot in the facemask from the crown of Harrison's helmet.

It's amazing that McCoy got up, let alone made it to the Cleveland sideline. It's beyond comprehension that Browns coach Pat Shurmur and the team's medical staff allowed him to return to the game after three plays. At least it was incomprehensible to McCoy's father, Brad, a longtime high school coach, who ripped the decision to put his son back in. The team acknowledged Friday that Colt McCoy had a concussion but said he didn't show symptoms until after the game.

"He was basically out [cold] after the hit," Brad McCoy told The Plain Dealer of Cleveland.

Colt McCoy said after the game that he didn't remember the hit.

NFL officials need to look into that when they review the Harrison hit.

But, really, the Browns aren't on trial here, are they? Nor is Cleveland defensive tackle Phil Taylor, who was penalized in the first quarter for delivering a blow to Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger's head and surely will be fined. Nor is Steelers linebacker James Farrior, who will be fined for the second time this season for hitting McCoy out of bounds in the third quarter.

No, this is about Harrison.

Everyone will be watching to see how Goodell and his people handle the Harrison hit.

"I hate him and will never respect him," Harrison said of Goodell in a Men's Journal article in July in which he also used the derogatory terms to describe him.

Harrison later apologized, calling his comments "inappropriate at least and way out of line."

The league office took no action against Harrison, presumably because the article came out during the NFL lockout.

Harrison will not -- should not -- escape this time.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11345/11 ... z1gFIb0OfM (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11345/1196096-87-0.stm#ixzz1gFIb0OfM)

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
12-11-2011, 02:07 PM
Too much talk in the media about a suspension for it not to happen. Harrison suspended for 1 maybe 2 games.

These same talking heads are saying that H2H is illegal....which it clearly is not. That is the problem, too many talking heads have a platform and no idea what they are talking about.

Sword
12-12-2011, 09:55 AM
I don't think he should be fined or suspended..you cannot base the rule on
watching this in slow motion.
He has been good all year. Last year means nothing.. or else it should mean nothing
according to NFL..

The QB was running..Harrison made a quick decision. So what if he threw it.
From the time he threw it and the hit, happen to fast to adjust again.

This is NFL football not flag football..

Sword

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
12-12-2011, 11:34 AM
I can accept the rationalization for a fine. A fine says that you did something excessive and unnecessary. Similar to the fine that I expect Farrior to receive. He didn't plow the guy, he barely touched him......but he shouldn't have even touched him.

A suspension says that you have blatantly broken the rules. Rules that you knew you should not have broken. Stomping on a players arm is a rule that everyone knows that is in place and that you should not do.

On this play, depending on what definition you want to use, it was clearly borderline as to whether or not it was an illegal hit - whether or not McCoy was fair game. If the violation was not as clear as day.....then how can you take the player away from his team?

Keyplay1
12-12-2011, 02:01 PM
I was going to start a thread asking "Why is Harrison's penalty such big news" since these type penalties [many much more severe] are occurring each and every week and in some instances by repeat offenders and by every team in the NFL. Nonetheless suddenly every two bit hack writer and his mother seem compelled to magnify this incident. Where were these MFB's [don't ask] when the following incidents occurred.

By Ben Austro of footballzebras.com

Green: [I am not posting the exact links since there are 100's of pages of this kind of stuff there. Much of it more vicious and horrifying than this one. If you have a strong stomach go there yourself and see.

Gold: 1. Every week, we will try to tally up the fines assessed by the NFL for on-field incidents.
Zebra Blog fine meter
$ 1 7 0, 0 0 0
FINES 1 1 SUSP 0

Last week’s total: 7 fines, $92,500.

* Most notably, Falcons cornerback Dunta Robinson, fined $40,000, according to the NFL: “the minimum amount … for a second violation of the rules on hits against defenseless players” (our take: a vicious helmet-to-helmet hit).
* Titans defensive end Derrick Morgan, $7,500, unnecessary roughness. Morgan plans to appeal the fine, because he was trying to jump on a loose ball, and, as he says, “I couldn’t stop myself in mid-air.”
* Chargers defensive tackle Antonio Garay, $15,000, hit on a quarterback below the knee (photo of the play at the link).
* Seahawks defensive tackle Raheem Brock, $15,000, hit on a quarterback below the knee (video). He, too, has plans to appeal (@RaheemBrock).

This week: 4 fines, $77,500.

Gold: 2.
Week 15: Packers at Patriots

Referee Ed Hochuli won’t have the benefit of his informative public-address announcements to defend a flag in the second quarter of the Sunday night game.

Mike Reiss of ESPNBoston.com reports a helmet-to-helmet hit by Patriots cornerback Devin McCourty on Packers tight end Andrew Quarless was penalized 20 to 30 seconds after the play because Hochuli received visual confirmation from a scoreboard replay.

The scoreboard video can never be used by officials to make any ruling. Ever.

I have to see the video of the call myself, but it may not be relevant if Hochuli saw a penalizable action on the scoreboard. As the head referee, Hochuli doesn’t call downfield penalties, because his coverage area is the quarterback. However, Hochuli would make the ultimate call in a case where the covering officials are “tied” in their decision.

That said, the appearance of the use of the scoreboard video is troubling. This is likely to stoke the rumor mill, so I expect the league to make a statement on this by midweek, even if it is a one-sentence (or one-word) answer.

Also likely is that Patriots coach Bill Belichick will fry the video board director who rolled a replay that oddly may have disadvantaged the home team.

Belichick also addressed the highly litigious Hochuli crew: “Look these guys call the most penalties of any crew in the league. … We knew it was going to be a [tightly officiated] game, and it was. I’ve got to do a better job preparing the team.”

Green: Notice the reference to the helmet to helmet hit by McCourty. Has anyone seen or heard of this and is it a national story?

Also note the disparaging remarks by BELICHICK berating the NFL officiating crew. Is he suggesting they are a bunch of incompetent boobs? Is he not questioning the integrity of the NFL officiating here? This should be a national story. He should be fined a minimum of $80,000 and possibly suspended at least 3 weeks. Challenging the integrity of NFL is a very serious offense. Okay, so I'm being absurd here, but sometimes seemingly innocent routine remarks can be twisted and misunderstood.

Gold: 3. Total through Week 3: 19 fines, $235,000.
Zebra Blog fine meter
$ 3 6 0, 0 0 0
FINES 2 8 SUSP 0

* Patriots defensive lineman Richard Seymour, $7,500 for unnecessary roughness and $7,500 for facemask foul.
* Patriots safety Patrick Chung, $7,500 for unnecessary roughness.
* Ravens defensive tackle Haloti Ngata, $15,000 for leading with helmet on a tackle. The hit resulted in a fumble returned for a touchdown, which should have been nullified by penalty.
* Steelers center Maurkice Pouncey, $7,500 for unnecessary roughness.
* 49ers tackle Anthony Davis, $25,000, two leg whip penalties.
* Bears safety Brandon Meriweather, $20,000 for a helmet-to-helmet hit (as a repeat offender).
* Eagles defensive end Jason Babin, $15,000 for a hit to the quarterback’s neck.
* Redskins special teamer Niles Paul, $20,000 for hit on a defenseless receiver.

This week: 9 fines, $125,000

Green: Notice Bears safety BM, $20,000 for h-h-h etc [as a REPEAT offender]???

Finally, and believe me I am done with this topic, I really am totally against this h-h-h stuff. I had never really noticed it until the past few years. I don't know if it has been around for a long time or not. But I really don't think it belongs in the NFL. IMO any player who is penalized for this type hit and after review it is ruled it was not incidental or unavoidable he should be heavily fined. A second similar violation he should be suspended 2 games. Any further violations the player does not belong in the NFL. NOTE: This is no way applies to the JHar penalty. That absolutely does not qualify since there are too many extenuating or mitigating circumstances. [I've been watching a lot of those lawyer TV shows lately] :) :)

Like is said earlier, if you are interested in this sort of thing go to that site http://www.footballzebras.com. Not only this topic but there is also in depth stuff on the concussion issue and all other official ruliings in games.

RuthlessBurgher
12-12-2011, 02:41 PM
thats ridiculous. Its more complicated than the US Constitution. Page 75-76??? a zillion cross references... Indeed the work of a lawyer. No offense PhillyEsq

Pythagorean theorem: 24 words
The Lord's Prayer: 66 words
Archimedes' Principle: 67 words
The Ten Commandments: 179 words
The Gettysburg Address: 286 words
The Declaration of Independence: 1,300 words
The US government regulations on the sale of cabbage: 26,911 words

SanAntonioSteelerFan
12-12-2011, 09:58 PM
thats ridiculous. Its more complicated than the US Constitution. Page 75-76??? a zillion cross references... Indeed the work of a lawyer. No offense PhillyEsq

Pythagorean theorem: 24 words
The Lord's Prayer: 66 words
Archimedes' Principle: 67 words
The Ten Commandments: 179 words
The Gettysburg Address: 286 words
The Declaration of Independence: 1,300 words
The US government regulations on the sale of cabbage: 26,911 words

"Heady" stuff, there.

:HeadBanger

But, I have a question: the NFL people are saying on camera things that it's almost a foregone conclusion he'll get a fine, maybe a 6-figure one, if not suspension. And all you hear is the media types talking about JH like he is Freddy Kruger or worse, I haven't heard ANYTHING supportive since the first few hours when Deion stood up for him.

So ...where is the Steeler organization in all this media blitz ... why isn't Tomlin, or ROONEY, saying things like - "The guy was a runner, and can't blame Harrison for tackling him like a runner".

Their silence is almost "throw JH under the bus" deafening, IMO.