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View Full Version : Damn, its a great time to need an ILB in the draft



BigRob
11-30-2011, 03:02 PM
Man, Good timing to need an ILB to pair with Timmons:

Luke Kuechly
Manti Te'o
Vontaze Burfict
James Michael-Johnson
Donte Hightower

I particularly like the ones in bold.

Dee Dub
11-30-2011, 03:13 PM
I dont think the Steeler will go that route in round one but in round two....

Nico Johnson Alabama would be a nice fit.

And interesting name is Zach Brown from North Carolina. He is projected outside but he may be the fastest LB to come into the NFL in a long time. Moving him inside next to Timmons with his speed and in front of Troy would be one of the fastest defenses in a long time. Sideline to sideline.

Also Lavonte David of Nebraska intrigues me. Big time play maker who is one of the best in coverage.

steelerkeylargo
11-30-2011, 04:12 PM
Burfict has had an absolutely terrible season and should really come back for his senior year.

Slapstick
11-30-2011, 04:16 PM
David from Nebraska is a stud...

Dee Dub
11-30-2011, 04:20 PM
David from Nebraska is a stud...

Yep!! And that type of cover ability is rare.

steelerkeylargo
11-30-2011, 04:26 PM
David from Nebraska is a stud...

Yep!! And that type of cover ability is rare.

I absolutely love David....however.....I don't think he is big enough to play in a 3-4.

Dee Dub
11-30-2011, 04:26 PM
Burfict has had an absolutely terrible season and should really come back for his senior year.

I wouldnt say he has had a terrible season. No way. 68 tackles, 5 sacks, 7 tackles for loss, 4 PD's, 1 Fumble recovery, and a pick from the inside isnt terrible. Did I expect more from him this year? Yes...but far from terrible.

Dee Dub
11-30-2011, 04:35 PM
David from Nebraska is a stud...

Yep!! And that type of cover ability is rare.

I absolutely love David....however.....I don't think he is big enough to play in a 3-4.

I think he could. If he adds 10 lbs he right about the same size as Larry Foote.

focosteeler
11-30-2011, 05:26 PM
[quote=Slapstick]David from Nebraska is a stud...

Yep!! And that type of cover ability is rare.

I absolutely love David....however.....I don't think he is big enough to play in a 3-4.

I think he could. If he adds 10 lbs he right about the same size as Larry Foote.[/quote:1vygnqen]

i think we should take him, 10 pounds his first 2 years in the league is not that hard. his ability to cover is needed they way this game is headed.

steelerkeylargo
11-30-2011, 05:37 PM
[quote=Slapstick]David from Nebraska is a stud...

Yep!! And that type of cover ability is rare.

I absolutely love David....however.....I don't think he is big enough to play in a 3-4.

I think he could. If he adds 10 lbs he right about the same size as Larry Foote.[/quote:1apeb4pq]

Where David would excel in coverage I believe he would be a liability in the run game. He needs to play in space where he can use his athleticism.

steelerkeylargo
11-30-2011, 05:39 PM
Burfict has had an absolutely terrible season and should really come back for his senior year.

I wouldnt say he has had a terrible season. No way. 68 tackles, 5 sacks, 7 tackles for loss, 4 PD's, 1 Fumble recovery, and a pick from the inside isnt terrible. Did I expect more from him this year? Yes...but far from terrible.

From my pal Rob Rang at CBS

The Sun Devils were expected to compete for the title of the Pac-12's new South Division this year, but a four game losing streak snuffed out that dream and cost head coach Dennis Erickson his job. Burfict's draft stock also dropped this season, as his inability to make any sort of play (23 tackles, just one for loss, in the past month) is actually a bigger problemm for scouts than his regular penalties for undisciplined play and unsportsmanlike conduct. In fact, his three of his five sacks (and seven tackles for loss) came in the season opener against Cal-Davis. Though the coaching change may push Burfict to the NFL draft this year, a big senior year in a new regime where he improves his instincts and consistently makes plays could ensure him a top 50 draft slot that is not guaranteed if he comes out after this season.

Shawn
11-30-2011, 05:41 PM
[quote=Slapstick]David from Nebraska is a stud...

Yep!! And that type of cover ability is rare.

I absolutely love David....however.....I don't think he is big enough to play in a 3-4.

I think he could. If he adds 10 lbs he right about the same size as Larry Foote.

Where David would excel in coverage I believe he would be a liability in the run game. He needs to play in space where he can use his athleticism.[/quote:2q4a5qih]

And I think that is where your concern becomes very valid. Personally, I think the Steelers will want to team up a traditional run stuffing type with Timmons.

Dee Dub
11-30-2011, 07:00 PM
And I think that is where your concern becomes very valid. Personally, I think the Steelers will want to team up a traditional run stuffing type with Timmons.

Yeah but if that is coming from the fact that he is about 10lbs lighter than ideal and not from the guys actual ability to play versus the run, then I wouldnt pay it much attention.

Have you seen David play? He seems to be able to handle just about everything that comes his way. Now, is he the prototypical ILB in a 3-4? no, but his positives outweigh his negatives. And in a 3-4 the design is to have those two-gappers in front of him clear the way for him to be one on one versus the ball carrier.

How many plays go right at the inside backer versus those that go away plus the one where he drops in coverage? There are more plays that would play to his strength than his weakness.

BigRob
11-30-2011, 07:11 PM
Burfict has had an absolutely terrible season and should really come back for his senior year.

I wouldnt say he has had a terrible season. No way. 68 tackles, 5 sacks, 7 tackles for loss, 4 PD's, 1 Fumble recovery, and a pick from the inside isnt terrible. Did I expect more from him this year? Yes...but far from terrible.

From my pal Rob Rang at CBS

The Sun Devils were expected to compete for the title of the Pac-12's new South Division this year, but a four game losing streak snuffed out that dream and cost head coach Dennis Erickson his job. Burfict's draft stock also dropped this season, as his inability to make any sort of play (23 tackles, just one for loss, in the past month) is actually a bigger problemm for scouts than his regular penalties for undisciplined play and unsportsmanlike conduct. In fact, his three of his five sacks (and seven tackles for loss) came in the season opener against Cal-Davis. Though the coaching change may push Burfict to the NFL draft this year, a big senior year in a new regime where he improves his instincts and consistently makes plays could ensure him a top 50 draft slot that is not guaranteed if he comes out after this season.

I would still take him with out 2nd rd pick in a heartbeat. With our coaching on that side of the ball, he would be a seek and destroy MLB in year 2.

steelerkeylargo
11-30-2011, 09:41 PM
Burfict has had an absolutely terrible season and should really come back for his senior year.

I wouldnt say he has had a terrible season. No way. 68 tackles, 5 sacks, 7 tackles for loss, 4 PD's, 1 Fumble recovery, and a pick from the inside isnt terrible. Did I expect more from him this year? Yes...but far from terrible.

From my pal Rob Rang at CBS

The Sun Devils were expected to compete for the title of the Pac-12's new South Division this year, but a four game losing streak snuffed out that dream and cost head coach Dennis Erickson his job. Burfict's draft stock also dropped this season, as his inability to make any sort of play (23 tackles, just one for loss, in the past month) is actually a bigger problemm for scouts than his regular penalties for undisciplined play and unsportsmanlike conduct. In fact, his three of his five sacks (and seven tackles for loss) came in the season opener against Cal-Davis. Though the coaching change may push Burfict to the NFL draft this year, a big senior year in a new regime where he improves his instincts and consistently makes plays could ensure him a top 50 draft slot that is not guaranteed if he comes out after this season.

I would still take him with out 2nd rd pick in a heartbeat. With our coaching on that side of the ball, he would be a seek and destroy MLB in year 2.


Second round? Absolutely!!!

Dresden
12-01-2011, 12:32 AM
[quote=Slapstick]David from Nebraska is a stud...

Yep!! And that type of cover ability is rare.

I absolutely love David....however.....I don't think he is big enough to play in a 3-4.

I think he could. If he adds 10 lbs he right about the same size as Larry Foote.

Where David would excel in coverage I believe he would be a liability in the run game. He needs to play in space where he can use his athleticism.[/quote:1cyo3go1]


It was also said that Ray Lewis was undersized coming out of college. But that's not even the point.
Dude,... Tomlin drafts MARGINALLY talented/collegiately productive undersized backers just to waste picks for sh#ts and giggles,... and the David kid is actually a stud. He's TRULY talented, productive and plays with an intensity and football awareness that's superior to Timmons NOW. He could easily put on 10-15 lbs.

I would love to see him in a Steeler Uniform. And while were at it (dreaming of great draft selections that will never happen),...picture Kenny Tate of Maryland playing in place of Ryan Clark ? :Steel

NJ-STEELER
12-01-2011, 01:03 AM
I hope some of you guys clamoring to add an ILB to what is a unit already near the top of the league aren't the same ones that are here Monday morning wondering why our offense struggles so much

Historically. Inside LB In the 3-4 can be filled later in the draft. Especially considering the surrounding players the position of need will be playing with.

With Timmons, wood, and debo. We might get away playing a message boarder next to them. Kind of like olsavsky back in the 90s

focosteeler
12-01-2011, 04:06 AM
I am curious to see what Sly can do when given real opportunities. I know he has gotten some playing time but I still dont think we have gotten to see the real Sly

StarSpangledSteeler
12-01-2011, 04:54 AM
I hope some of you guys clamoring to add an ILB to what is a unit already near the top of the league aren't the same ones that are here Monday morning wondering why our offense struggles so much

Historically. Inside LB In the 3-4 can be filled later in the draft. Especially considering the surrounding players the position of need will be playing with.

With Timmons, wood, and debo. We might get away playing a message boarder next to them. Kind of like olsavsky back in the 90s


I like where you're going with this one, but let me help clarify...

Steelers offense is scoring 21.2 points per game (ranked 18th in NFL).

Packers offense is scoring 34.7 points per game (ranked 1st in NFL).

Steelers defense is holding opponents to 17.1 points per game (ranked 4th in NFL).

San Francisco defense is holding opponents to 14.6 points per game (ranked 1st in NFL).

If we draft a star ILB, and a star NT, and a star FS, what kind of results are all you guys projecting?... Are we going to hold opponents to under 14 points? That's only 3 points better than our current roster. That's not a very good return on investment. That's spending our draft picks "emotionally" instead of "rationally".

Now if we draft a top OT, and two top OG's, what kind of results would you project?... Easily 7 more points per game and I'll tell you why... Ben would have more time to throw, and get sacked less, and would stay healthy longer. We'd be able to run the ball better because our "horses" up front would be blowing open running lanes instead of getting pushed backwards 2 yards. In the red zone we'd actually be able to score TD's (instead of FG's) by simply running the ball, and if teams responded by stacking the box, it would leave our WR weapons in single coverage. But most of all, we'd be able to sustain drives better, and control time of possession better, keeping our defense off the field, which would reduce our points allowed even further WITHOUT EVEN DRAFTING DEFENSE.

Perhaps the most logical reason to draft OL is because the NFL is turning into a passing league. It is rewarding high powered offenses and punishing great defenses. We need to follow the trend instead of fighting against it.

OFFENSE! OFFENSE! OFFENSE!

steelerkeylargo
12-01-2011, 10:32 AM
Where David would excel in coverage I believe he would be a liability in the run game. He needs to play in space where he can use his athleticism.[/quote]


It was also said that Ray Lewis was undersized coming out of college. But that's not even the point.
Dude,... Tomlin drafts MARGINALLY talented/collegiately productive undersized backers just to waste picks for sh#ts and giggles,... and the David kid is actually a stud. He's TRULY talented, productive and plays with an intensity and football awareness that's superior to Timmons NOW. He could easily put on 10-15 lbs.

I would love to see him in a Steeler Uniform. And while were at it (dreaming of great draft selections that will never happen),...picture Kenny Tate of Maryland playing in place of Ryan Clark ? :Steel[/quote][/quote]


Wrong!! The Steelers (Tomlin and Cowher) draft undersized DE's to play LB. Not undersized LB'ers that are borderline Safety size. I love Lavonte David as a player but he does not fit our system. He will be a Thomas Davis (hopefully without the injuries) type player at the next level.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
12-01-2011, 10:44 AM
I hope some of you guys clamoring to add an ILB to what is a unit already near the top of the league aren't the same ones that are here Monday morning wondering why our offense struggles so much

Historically. Inside LB In the 3-4 can be filled later in the draft. Especially considering the surrounding players the position of need will be playing with.

With Timmons, wood, and debo. We might get away playing a message boarder next to them. Kind of like olsavsky back in the 90s


I like where you're going with this one, but let me help clarify...

Steelers offense is scoring 21.2 points per game (ranked 18th in NFL).

Packers offense is scoring 34.7 points per game (ranked 1st in NFL).

Steelers defense is holding opponents to 17.1 points per game (ranked 4th in NFL).

San Francisco defense is holding opponents to 14.6 points per game (ranked 1st in NFL).

If we draft a star ILB, and a star NT, and a star FS, what kind of results are all you guys projecting?... Are we going to hold opponents to under 14 points? That's only 3 points better than our current roster. That's not a very good return on investment. That's spending our draft picks "emotionally" instead of "rationally".

Now if we draft a top OT, and two top OG's, what kind of results would you project?... Easily 7 more points per game and I'll tell you why... Ben would have more time to throw, and get sacked less, and would stay healthy longer. We'd be able to run the ball better because our "horses" up front would be blowing open running lanes instead of getting pushed backwards 2 yards. In the red zone we'd actually be able to score TD's (instead of FG's) by simply running the ball, and if teams responded by stacking the box, it would leave our WR weapons in single coverage. But most of all, we'd be able to sustain drives better, and control time of possession better, keeping our defense off the field, which would reduce our points allowed even further WITHOUT EVEN DRAFTING DEFENSE.

Perhaps the most logical reason to draft OL is because the NFL is turning into a passing league. It is rewarding high powered offenses and punishing great defenses. We need to follow the trend instead of fighting against it.

OFFENSE! OFFENSE! OFFENSE!

Philosophy and reality are far apart. Sound philosophy but can't be realized. Steelers won't have a shot at a Top OT and more than likely a Top OG. The Steelers are smart enough in their drafting to look at need and if it can't be filled to take BPA. OG need when they are on the clock...Nobody graded there. NT or ILB when they are on the clock....Very good possibility. To select a position and try to associate it with the stats is really a non factor. Taking the 5th or 6th best OT or 3rd OG may not have any impact. Taking a 1st or 2nd rated player at NT or ILB could.

Right now...The only OL I am interested in is DeCastro in the 1st. Based on need and where he grades out...But he is rising fast....DeCastro could be long gone. The only other OG on the radar for me is Cordy Glenn and he has some work to do before I throw his name in the hat. The top OTs will be gone and the drop off is huge. If you have been a Steelers fan for awhile...You know dam well what the answer is in this scenario. The will look to the other side of the ball and look to fill the need at OG in 2-3. If there is nobody on defense graded out at need still on the board...BPA.

SuperSize
12-01-2011, 11:08 AM
No comments on the kid from BC, Kuechly?

Just wondering, he's a local kid from here in Cincinnati and the local rag had a big piece on him 2-3 weeks ago. I've never seen him play, but he's listed ~240, and he leads the nation in tackles.


Pete

PSU_dropout43
12-01-2011, 11:52 AM
My late round gem is Danny Trevathan kentucky.

Dee Dub
12-01-2011, 12:45 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":3m6jsxji]I hope some of you guys clamoring to add an ILB to what is a unit already near the top of the league aren't the same ones that are here Monday morning wondering why our offense struggles so much

Historically. Inside LB In the 3-4 can be filled later in the draft. Especially considering the surrounding players the position of need will be playing with.

With Timmons, wood, and debo. We might get away playing a message boarder next to them. Kind of like olsavsky back in the 90s


I like where you're going with this one, but let me help clarify...

Steelers offense is scoring 21.2 points per game (ranked 18th in NFL).

Packers offense is scoring 34.7 points per game (ranked 1st in NFL).

Steelers defense is holding opponents to 17.1 points per game (ranked 4th in NFL).

San Francisco defense is holding opponents to 14.6 points per game (ranked 1st in NFL).

If we draft a star ILB, and a star NT, and a star FS, what kind of results are all you guys projecting?... Are we going to hold opponents to under 14 points? That's only 3 points better than our current roster. That's not a very good return on investment. That's spending our draft picks "emotionally" instead of "rationally".

Now if we draft a top OT, and two top OG's, what kind of results would you project?... Easily 7 more points per game and I'll tell you why... Ben would have more time to throw, and get sacked less, and would stay healthy longer. We'd be able to run the ball better because our "horses" up front would be blowing open running lanes instead of getting pushed backwards 2 yards. In the red zone we'd actually be able to score TD's (instead of FG's) by simply running the ball, and if teams responded by stacking the box, it would leave our WR weapons in single coverage. But most of all, we'd be able to sustain drives better, and control time of possession better, keeping our defense off the field, which would reduce our points allowed even further WITHOUT EVEN DRAFTING DEFENSE.

Perhaps the most logical reason to draft OL is because the NFL is turning into a passing league. It is rewarding high powered offenses and punishing great defenses. We need to follow the trend instead of fighting against it.

OFFENSE! OFFENSE! OFFENSE!

Philosophy and reality are far apart. Sound philosophy but can't be realized. Steelers won't have a shot at a Top OT and more than likely a Top OG. The Steelers are smart enough in their drafting to look at need and if it can't be filled to take BPA. OG need when they are on the clock...Nobody graded there. NT or ILB when they are on the clock....Very good possibility. To select a position and try to associate it with the stats is really a non factor. Taking the 5th or 6th best OT or 3rd OG may not have any impact. Taking a 1st or 2nd rated player at NT or ILB could.

Right now...The only OL I am interested in is DeCastro in the 1st. Based on need and where he grades out...But he is rising fast....DeCastro could be long gone. The only other OG on the radar for me is Cordy Glenn and he has some work to do before I throw his name in the hat. The top OTs will be gone and the drop off is huge. If you have been a Steelers fan for awhile...You know dam well what the answer is in this scenario. The will look to the other side of the ball and look to fill the need at OG in 2-3. If there is nobody on defense graded out at need still on the board...BPA.[/quote:3m6jsxji]


Excellent post!! :Clap I couldnt agree more. JPN...better watch out some team may be a callin'. .

Dee Dub
12-01-2011, 12:52 PM
I hope some of you guys clamoring to add an ILB to what is a unit already near the top of the league aren't the same ones that are here Monday morning wondering why our offense struggles so much

Historically. Inside LB In the 3-4 can be filled later in the draft. Especially considering the surrounding players the position of need will be playing with.

With Timmons, wood, and debo. We might get away playing a message boarder next to them. Kind of like olsavsky back in the 90s

For the record, I for one am not "clamoring" to add an ILB as you put it. But I do recognioze that with Farrior's age and his game having started to go down hill, it is a position of need for this team. And if a solid ILB fell to the Steelers I'd be ok with it.

I'm with JPN. I really want DeCastro. And I think Glenn would suffice too. Think about who they will go up against 2 and maybe 3 times a year......Hiloti Ngata.

BigRob
12-01-2011, 01:04 PM
Oh, I'm not saying they should or would draft an ILB in the first two rounds. I just said its a great draft for MLB's.

That means there is a good chance that BPA in rounds 1,2,3 may be a MLB. We have an aging defense. We have won as many games as we have because we have a super defense every year.

We win Super Bowls because we have a wonderful QB. But the backbone of this team is defense. It is aging, and aging particularly at MLB, DL, and Safety.

steelz09
12-01-2011, 02:37 PM
[quote="steelerkeylargoI think he could. If he adds 10 lbs he right about the same size as Larry Foote.

Where David would excel in coverage I believe he would be a liability in the run game. He needs to play in space where he can use his athleticism.

And I think that is where your concern becomes very valid. Personally, I think the Steelers will want to team up a traditional run stuffing type with Timmons.

I completely agree Shawn. We need a true, instinctive ILB especially for the run defense. Farrior is that guy but his days are numbered. I'd like to see a guy w/ some size that has experience in a 3-4. Just say no to "tweeners", or "hybrid" type players. I want a player that already has experience at ILB and preferably in a 3-4. I'd seriously look at Alabama players.

StarSpangledSteeler
12-01-2011, 03:53 PM
[quote="NJ-STEELER":29c6040k]I hope some of you guys clamoring to add an ILB to what is a unit already near the top of the league aren't the same ones that are here Monday morning wondering why our offense struggles so much

Historically. Inside LB In the 3-4 can be filled later in the draft. Especially considering the surrounding players the position of need will be playing with.

With Timmons, wood, and debo. We might get away playing a message boarder next to them. Kind of like olsavsky back in the 90s


I like where you're going with this one, but let me help clarify...

Steelers offense is scoring 21.2 points per game (ranked 18th in NFL).

Packers offense is scoring 34.7 points per game (ranked 1st in NFL).

Steelers defense is holding opponents to 17.1 points per game (ranked 4th in NFL).

San Francisco defense is holding opponents to 14.6 points per game (ranked 1st in NFL).

If we draft a star ILB, and a star NT, and a star FS, what kind of results are all you guys projecting?... Are we going to hold opponents to under 14 points? That's only 3 points better than our current roster. That's not a very good return on investment. That's spending our draft picks "emotionally" instead of "rationally".

Now if we draft a top OT, and two top OG's, what kind of results would you project?... Easily 7 more points per game and I'll tell you why... Ben would have more time to throw, and get sacked less, and would stay healthy longer. We'd be able to run the ball better because our "horses" up front would be blowing open running lanes instead of getting pushed backwards 2 yards. In the red zone we'd actually be able to score TD's (instead of FG's) by simply running the ball, and if teams responded by stacking the box, it would leave our WR weapons in single coverage. But most of all, we'd be able to sustain drives better, and control time of possession better, keeping our defense off the field, which would reduce our points allowed even further WITHOUT EVEN DRAFTING DEFENSE.

Perhaps the most logical reason to draft OL is because the NFL is turning into a passing league. It is rewarding high powered offenses and punishing great defenses. We need to follow the trend instead of fighting against it.

OFFENSE! OFFENSE! OFFENSE!

Philosophy and reality are far apart. Sound philosophy but can't be realized. Steelers won't have a shot at a Top OT and more than likely a Top OG. The Steelers are smart enough in their drafting to look at need and if it can't be filled to take BPA. OG need when they are on the clock...Nobody graded there. NT or ILB when they are on the clock....Very good possibility. To select a position and try to associate it with the stats is really a non factor. Taking the 5th or 6th best OT or 3rd OG may not have any impact. Taking a 1st or 2nd rated player at NT or ILB could.

Right now...The only OL I am interested in is DeCastro in the 1st. Based on need and where he grades out...But he is rising fast....DeCastro could be long gone. The only other OG on the radar for me is Cordy Glenn and he has some work to do before I throw his name in the hat. The top OTs will be gone and the drop off is huge. If you have been a Steelers fan for awhile...You know dam well what the answer is in this scenario. The will look to the other side of the ball and look to fill the need at OG in 2-3. If there is nobody on defense graded out at need still on the board...BPA.[/quote:29c6040k]

Love your avatar. Completely disagree with your post. You tend to make generalized statements based on your "opinion" and then try to turn them into "facts" by wording them strongly. (The tough guy poster approach.) Let me state a couple of facts:

The Steeler have drafted: Rienstra, Ricketts, Faneca, and Simmons (all guards) in the first round. That is a "fact". Whether they will do it this year or not remains to be seen, but don't tell me they won't do it just because "you" don't see value at the OG position. That is your "opinion". They have drafted an OG in the first round before and could do it again.

When you say "The Steelers won't have a shot at a top OT..." or "The top OT's will be long gone..." you are stating your "opinion". History does not support that statement. In 2011 Steelers could've selected Sherrod at 1.31. At many points during the season he was rated as a top 10 pick. In 2010 the Steelers could've selected Bulaga at 1.18. At many points during the season he was rated as a top 10 pick. Also in 2010 the Steelers could've selected Rodger Saffold at 1.18 (who has turned out to be a solid starter at LT). In 2006 the Steelers could've selected Marcus McNeil at 1.25 (who became a multi year pro-bowler). It doesn't unfold that way every year but it does happen. These are "facts".

The "fact" is we currently have the 4th rated defense in points allowed (17.1). The "fact" is we currently have the 19th rated offense in points scored (21.2). As of right now, there is more room for improvement on the offensive side than the defensive side. That is a "fact". When you say... "If you have been a Steelers fan for awhile...You know dam well what the answer is in this scenario. The will look to the other side of the ball and look to fill the need at OG in 2-3..." that is your "opinion". The "fact" is over the last 20 years the Steelers have alternated 1st round picks between offense (in even years) and defense (in odd years) in every single year with only three exceptions (1995, 1999, 2005). In each case they drafted OFFENSE (WR, WR, TE). They have not doubled up on defense in back to back years in the last 20 years. Now, does that mean they must draft offense? No. But to say you know dam well they will look to the other side of the ball is not consistent with the Steelers pattern of drafting in any way.

I understand everyone has a different opinion. That's what this board is for. But when you state your opinion like a tough guy and the facts prove the opposite it makes you look uneducated or at least makes your argument not well thought out. (Just my opinion.)

BigRob
12-01-2011, 04:57 PM
The fact is that we are not performing as well on the defensive side of the ball as in years past. I think this is in part due to the age of the defense.

Our stalwarts are aging. We have an oooold defense with frew youngry's ready to step in at NT, S, and LB. I do not believe in Stevenson as starter material.

We need to get younger at NT, ILB, and Safety. I do agree we need an o-line upgrade as well.

I would like the Rounds 1-3 focused on some combination of NT, OL, S, ILB.

Dee Dub
12-01-2011, 05:17 PM
[quote="steelerkeylargoI think he could. If he adds 10 lbs he right about the same size as Larry Foote.

Where David would excel in coverage I believe he would be a liability in the run game. He needs to play in space where he can use his athleticism.

And I think that is where your concern becomes very valid. Personally, I think the Steelers will want to team up a traditional run stuffing type with Timmons.

I completely agree Shawn. We need a true, instinctive ILB especially for the run defense. Farrior is that guy but his days are numbered. I'd like to see a guy w/ some size that has experience in a 3-4. Just say no to "tweeners", or "hybrid" type players. I want a player that already has experience at ILB and preferably in a 3-4. I'd seriously look at Alabama players.

I would prefer the prototypical ILB for our 3-4 as well, however, if a lesser graded player is there and Lavonte David is there, I'd prefer David. Again, he is listed as only 10 pounds lighter Larry Foote.

I would hardly say James Farrior is a true instinctive ILB for the run. In his primve he held his own, but his strength has always been that he is a well rounded ILB. He had a ton of versatility in his prime. And Lavonte David is every bit that.

StarSpangledSteeler
12-01-2011, 06:50 PM
The fact is that we are not performing as well on the defensive side of the ball as in years past. I think this is in part due to the age of the defense.

Our stalwarts are aging. We have an oooold defense with frew youngry's ready to step in at NT, S, and LB. I do not believe in Stevenson as starter material.

We need to get younger at NT, ILB, and Safety. I do agree we need an o-line upgrade as well.

I would like the Rounds 1-3 focused on some combination of NT, OL, S, ILB.

Here are the actual numbers. Over the last ten years, the Steelers defense points per game allowed are:

2011 - 17.1
2010 - 14.5 (lost Super Bowl)
2009 - 20.3 (won Super Bowl)
2008 - 13.9
2007 - 16.8
2006 - 19.7 (won Super Bowl)
2005 - 16.1
2004 - 15.7
2003 - 20.4
2002 - 21.6

That is an average of 17.6 points per game. We are actually right on average. Some years we go up a couple points, some years we go down a couple points, but pretty consistent overall. Ironically, in the years we won the Super Bowl, our defensive PPG allowed was actually higher.

The age of our defense is a tricky one because it depends on which alignment we're in. On running downs (when fully healthy) we line up: Hampton (34), Hood (24), Keisel (33), Woodley (27), Farrior (36), Timmons (25), Harrison (33), Taylor (31), Gay (26), Polamalu (30), Clark (32). That's an average age of 30.1 years old. Pretty old in football terms. But some of this year when dealing with injuries and heavy passing teams, we lined up: Heyward (22), Hood (24), Woodley (27), Worilds (23), Timmons (25), Foote (31), Polamalu (30), C. Allen (23), Gay (26), Taylor (31), Clark (32). That's an average of 26.7 years old. Not bad. Both of those numbers go into that 17.1 average. I think the lack of turnovers is a bigger factor this year (in the slight point change) than the age of our players. But I do agree with your opinion that we would be wise to draft some youth at S, ILB, NT this year.

steelz09
12-01-2011, 10:04 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":2psap4im][quote="steelerkeylargoI think he could. If he adds 10 lbs he right about the same size as Larry Foote.

Where David would excel in coverage I believe he would be a liability in the run game. He needs to play in space where he can use his athleticism.

And I think that is where your concern becomes very valid. Personally, I think the Steelers will want to team up a traditional run stuffing type with Timmons.

I completely agree Shawn. We need a true, instinctive ILB especially for the run defense. Farrior is that guy but his days are numbered. I'd like to see a guy w/ some size that has experience in a 3-4. Just say no to "tweeners", or "hybrid" type players. I want a player that already has experience at ILB and preferably in a 3-4. I'd seriously look at Alabama players.

I would prefer the prototypical ILB for our 3-4 as well, however, if a lesser graded player is there and Lavonte David is there, I'd prefer David. Again, he is listed as only 10 pounds lighter Larry Foote.

I would hardly say James Farrior is a true instinctive ILB for the run. In his primve he held his own, but his strength has always been that he is a well rounded ILB. He had a ton of versatility in his prime. And Lavonte David is every bit that.[/quote:2psap4im]

Farrior not an instinctive ILB?? The guy was born to play the inside in a 3-4. Farrior only has the size of a bigger-sized safety for gods sake and is 36 years old playing a very demanding position at a high level.

Foote is consistent but I never thought he had the size to play the inside. Farrior got away with being undersized because he knows how to play the position very well. Good vision, good instincts, prototypical ILB, knows how to fill the gap, and can fight off blocks. I can't think of a better free agent that the steelers picked up in the last 20 years that are better than Farrior with the exception of Bettis.

steelz09
12-01-2011, 10:08 PM
btw .. Wikipedia has Lavonte David listed at 210 lbs. I want a ILB that is 245-250. Get me an SEC guy w/ size and speed. :)

Dresden
12-02-2011, 12:26 AM
Where David would excel in coverage I believe he would be a liability in the run game. He needs to play in space where he can use his athleticism.


It was also said that Ray Lewis was undersized coming out of college. But that's not even the point.
Dude,... Tomlin drafts MARGINALLY talented/collegiately productive undersized backers just to waste picks for sh#ts and giggles,... and the David kid is actually a stud. He's TRULY talented, productive and plays with an intensity and football awareness that's superior to Timmons NOW. He could easily put on 10-15 lbs.

I would love to see him in a Steeler Uniform. And while were at it (dreaming of great draft selections that will never happen),...picture Kenny Tate of Maryland playing in place of Ryan Clark ? :Steel[/quote][/quote]


Wrong!! The Steelers (Tomlin and Cowher) draft undersized DE's to play LB. Not undersized LB'ers that are borderline Safety size. I love Lavonte David as a player but he does not fit our system. He will be a Thomas Davis (hopefully without the injuries) type player at the next level.[/quote]

Having been a Steeler Fan since childhood during the dark 80's before Coach Cowher arrived,...i'm well versed in what type of backers we drafted during his tenure sir.

And with that said i can confidently say that Coach Cowher would NEVER have drafted a collegiately undersized, marginally productive 4-3 pursuit backer in the top half of the 1st round. (Timmons) Or an absolutely raw undersized "one year wonder" backer like Worilds in the second with so many other needs. Nor would he have drafted a tiny player like Sylvester at all to play backer,..though he may have given him a shot as a UFA. Coach actually played in the Pros.

And i won't even begin to speak of how he would not have drafted a scatback slasher RB in the first either :lol:

steelerkeylargo
12-02-2011, 12:52 AM
Where David would excel in coverage I believe he would be a liability in the run game. He needs to play in space where he can use his athleticism.


It was also said that Ray Lewis was undersized coming out of college. But that's not even the point.
Dude,... Tomlin drafts MARGINALLY talented/collegiately productive undersized backers just to waste picks for sh#ts and giggles,... and the David kid is actually a stud. He's TRULY talented, productive and plays with an intensity and football awareness that's superior to Timmons NOW. He could easily put on 10-15 lbs.

I would love to see him in a Steeler Uniform. And while were at it (dreaming of great draft selections that will never happen),...picture Kenny Tate of Maryland playing in place of Ryan Clark ? :Steel[/quote]


Wrong!! The Steelers (Tomlin and Cowher) draft undersized DE's to play LB. Not undersized LB'ers that are borderline Safety size. I love Lavonte David as a player but he does not fit our system. He will be a Thomas Davis (hopefully without the injuries) type player at the next level.[/quote]

Having been a Steeler Fan since childhood during the dark 80's before Coach Cowher arrived,...i'm well versed in what type of backers we drafted during his tenure sir.

And with that said i can confidently say that Coach Cowher would NEVER have drafted a collegiately undersized, marginally productive 4-3 pursuit backer in the top half of the 1st round. (Timmons) Or an absolutely raw undersized "one year wonder" backer like Worilds in the second with so many other needs. Nor would he have drafted a tiny player like Sylvester at all to play backer,..though he may have given him a shot as a UFA. Coach actually played in the Pros.

And i won't even begin to speak of how he would not have drafted a scatback slasher RB in the first either :lol:[/quote]

With guys like Alonzo Jackson and Bruce Davis under his belt I wouldn't say Cowher was perfect. Worilds and Timmons are hardly undersized.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
12-02-2011, 11:59 AM
Love your avatar. Completely disagree with your post. You tend to make generalized statements based on your "opinion" and then try to turn them into "facts" by wording them strongly. (The tough guy poster approach.) Let me state a couple of facts:

The Steeler have drafted: Rienstra, Ricketts, Faneca, and Simmons (all guards) in the first round. That is a "fact". Whether they will do it this year or not remains to be seen, but don't tell me they won't do it just because "you" don't see value at the OG position. That is your "opinion". They have drafted an OG in the first round before and could do it again.

When you say "The Steelers won't have a shot at a top OT..." or "The top OT's will be long gone..." you are stating your "opinion". History does not support that statement. In 2011 Steelers could've selected Sherrod at 1.31. At many points during the season he was rated as a top 10 pick. In 2010 the Steelers could've selected Bulaga at 1.18. At many points during the season he was rated as a top 10 pick. Also in 2010 the Steelers could've selected Rodger Saffold at 1.18 (who has turned out to be a solid starter at LT). In 2006 the Steelers could've selected Marcus McNeil at 1.25 (who became a multi year pro-bowler). It doesn't unfold that way every year but it does happen. These are "facts".

The "fact" is we currently have the 4th rated defense in points allowed (17.1). The "fact" is we currently have the 19th rated offense in points scored (21.2). As of right now, there is more room for improvement on the offensive side than the defensive side. That is a "fact". When you say... "If you have been a Steelers fan for awhile...You know dam well what the answer is in this scenario. The will look to the other side of the ball and look to fill the need at OG in 2-3..." that is your "opinion". The "fact" is over the last 20 years the Steelers have alternated 1st round picks between offense (in even years) and defense (in odd years) in every single year with only three exceptions (1995, 1999, 2005). In each case they drafted OFFENSE (WR, WR, TE). They have not doubled up on defense in back to back years in the last 20 years. Now, does that mean they must draft offense? No. But to say you know dam well they will look to the other side of the ball is not consistent with the Steelers pattern of drafting in any way.

I understand everyone has a different opinion. That's what this board is for. But when you state your opinion like a tough guy and the facts prove the opposite it makes you look uneducated or at least makes your argument not well thought out. (Just my opinion.)

Has nothing to do with tough guy poster...If you feel threatened that way...It is because our opinions differ and you don't like it. I talk from experience. Very amusing how you imply me trying to make my opinion facts by wording and then you go on to say "let me state some facts" that are your opinion.

You don't comprehend well or understand my post. It's easy to say what we need (philosophy). That isn't a secret and I agree. Has nothing to do with the Steelers not drafting a G. I'm not stating no value at OG in first. Don't put words in my mouth. I'm saying in this years draft where they will pick... And you took a shot at me being uneducated. There isn't anything educated about your post...football inteligence or otherwise. You pull stats for your argument...Intelligent! I was a guy in here calling for the Trade up for Mike Pouncey. I understand the need and value of an OG. I'm the biggest OL guy in here. The argument isn't about the what...It is about the when. If you can't forecast or predict in your head where the Steelers will be picking and the value on the board in the first round when they pick...I will do that for you. It will be in the lower part of the first. "Value", more than likely, will not be there at OG. There may be only two 1st round Gs and they may be gone. They will not reach. There still may be ILB & DT on the board. All your jibber jabber and stats about Gs being drafted is meaningless.

The Steelers won't have a shot at a Top OT picking outside the Top 25. It is my opinion and fact. History does support my statement as much as it supports yours. So because it also supports yours you want to call it fact. Some of your statements really show how you are stat sniffing and really aren't using common sense or your brain. So Sherrod hasn't started a game this year....6th OT off board. That is your Top OT prospect...That doesn't help your argument. That sounds like a "fact" for me. So your next argument is two guys in the 2010 draft where the Steelers selected 18. Where does picking 18 support your argument? You think the Steelers will be picking 18 in 2012..."Fact" again...Nothing there at all that supports your argument. The Steelers selected the #1 rated C...Pouncey in 2010. I'm sure you have know who that guy is and what he has done in two years. So to try and save face you bring up Bulaga and Saffold....Passing on Pouncey. Hmmm...Intelligent thought process. Both good football players...But Really??? That is support to your argument??? Guys taken @23 & @33??? Then bringing up a player picked in the second round at #50 instead of taking Holmes @ 25??? I really can see who you are now. The Steelers weren't in need of OT in the 2010 draft...They had needs on the interior. Do you see now how a draft works? We can all go back and say look who was there and what they are doing. The Steelers needed a OG this year...Why didn't we pick one in Rd 1??? That answer negates anything you have said and supports everything I have said. I can go back in drafts and say the Steelers could have had Mathews, Weatherspoon, Maualuga, Beason, or Ryans to fill LB holes but you have to give the guy up in that draft...That changes everything.

Fact is your stats mean nothing. Fact is when you watch the game...The Steelers D is lacking stopping the run. Fact is the Steelers are old up the middle and it is showing. Fact is stats don't prove your point...It only shows what you lack in football knowledge by using them. The Steelers need help on the interior...That is a fact. The Steelers need long term solutions at NT, ILB, & S. My opinion that OG can not be addressed where the Steelers pick is the same as your opinion saying it will. Your argument would have as much merit as mine if you would have brought 2012 draft facts instead of stats about the drafts past. Being that right now it is a very weak draft at the top for OT & OG until some underclassmen declare....I will stick to my opinion. You talk about trend and alternating picks has nothing to do with the conversation. The draft is based on what a team needs and what players that are available and where they grade out. Implying that there is anything there but sheer coincidence really shows a lack of intelligence and football knowledge. There is no trend. Play the lottery if that is what you are looking for.

StarSpangledSteeler
12-02-2011, 02:09 PM
Love your avatar. Completely disagree with your post. You tend to make generalized statements based on your "opinion" and then try to turn them into "facts" by wording them strongly. (The tough guy poster approach.) Let me state a couple of facts:

The Steeler have drafted: Rienstra, Ricketts, Faneca, and Simmons (all guards) in the first round. That is a "fact". Whether they will do it this year or not remains to be seen, but don't tell me they won't do it just because "you" don't see value at the OG position. That is your "opinion". They have drafted an OG in the first round before and could do it again.

When you say "The Steelers won't have a shot at a top OT..." or "The top OT's will be long gone..." you are stating your "opinion". History does not support that statement. In 2011 Steelers could've selected Sherrod at 1.31. At many points during the season he was rated as a top 10 pick. In 2010 the Steelers could've selected Bulaga at 1.18. At many points during the season he was rated as a top 10 pick. Also in 2010 the Steelers could've selected Rodger Saffold at 1.18 (who has turned out to be a solid starter at LT). In 2006 the Steelers could've selected Marcus McNeil at 1.25 (who became a multi year pro-bowler). It doesn't unfold that way every year but it does happen. These are "facts".

The "fact" is we currently have the 4th rated defense in points allowed (17.1). The "fact" is we currently have the 19th rated offense in points scored (21.2). As of right now, there is more room for improvement on the offensive side than the defensive side. That is a "fact". When you say... "If you have been a Steelers fan for awhile...You know dam well what the answer is in this scenario. The will look to the other side of the ball and look to fill the need at OG in 2-3..." that is your "opinion". The "fact" is over the last 20 years the Steelers have alternated 1st round picks between offense (in even years) and defense (in odd years) in every single year with only three exceptions (1995, 1999, 2005). In each case they drafted OFFENSE (WR, WR, TE). They have not doubled up on defense in back to back years in the last 20 years. Now, does that mean they must draft offense? No. But to say you know dam well they will look to the other side of the ball is not consistent with the Steelers pattern of drafting in any way.

I understand everyone has a different opinion. That's what this board is for. But when you state your opinion like a tough guy and the facts prove the opposite it makes you look uneducated or at least makes your argument not well thought out. (Just my opinion.)

Has nothing to do with tough guy poster...If you feel threatened that way...It is because our opinions differ and you don't like it. I talk from experience. Very amusing how you imply me trying to make my opinion facts by wording and then you go on to say "let me state some facts" that are your opinion.

You don't comprehend well or understand my post. It's easy to say what we need (philosophy). That isn't a secret and I agree. Has nothing to do with the Steelers not drafting a G. I'm not stating no value at OG in first. Don't put words in my mouth. I'm saying in this years draft where they will pick... And you took a shot at me being uneducated. There isn't anything educated about your post...football inteligence or otherwise. You pull stats for your argument...Intelligent! I was a guy in here calling for the Trade up for Mike Pouncey. I understand the need and value of an OG. I'm the biggest OL guy in here. The argument isn't about the what...It is about the when. If you can't forecast or predict in your head where the Steelers will be picking and the value on the board in the first round when they pick...I will do that for you. It will be in the lower part of the first. "Value", more than likely, will not be there at OG. There may be only two 1st round Gs and they may be gone. They will not reach. There still may be ILB & DT on the board. All your jibber jabber and stats about Gs being drafted is meaningless.

The Steelers won't have a shot at a Top OT picking outside the Top 25. It is my opinion and fact. History does support my statement as much as it supports yours. So because it also supports yours you want to call it fact. Some of your statements really show how you are stat sniffing and really aren't using common sense or your brain. So Sherrod hasn't started a game this year....6th OT off board. That is your Top OT prospect...That doesn't help your argument. That sounds like a "fact" for me. So your next argument is two guys in the 2010 draft where the Steelers selected 18. Where does picking 18 support your argument? You think the Steelers will be picking 18 in 2012..."Fact" again...Nothing there at all that supports your argument. The Steelers selected the #1 rated C...Pouncey in 2010. I'm sure you have know who that guy is and what he has done in two years. So to try and save face you bring up Bulaga and Saffold....Passing on Pouncey. Hmmm...Intelligent thought process. Both good football players...But Really??? That is support to your argument??? Guys taken @23 & @33??? Then bringing up a player picked in the second round at #50 instead of taking Holmes @ 25??? I really can see who you are now. The Steelers weren't in need of OT in the 2010 draft...They had needs on the interior. Do you see now how a draft works? We can all go back and say look who was there and what they are doing. The Steelers needed a OG this year...Why didn't we pick one in Rd 1??? That answer negates anything you have said and supports everything I have said. I can go back in drafts and say the Steelers could have had Mathews, Weatherspoon, Maualuga, Beason, or Ryans to fill LB holes but you have to give the guy up in that draft...That changes everything.

Fact is your stats mean nothing. Fact is when you watch the game...The Steelers D is lacking stopping the run. Fact is the Steelers are old up the middle and it is showing. Fact is stats don't prove your point...It only shows what you lack in football knowledge by using them. The Steelers need help on the interior...That is a fact. The Steelers need long term solutions at NT, ILB, & S. My opinion that OG can not be addressed where the Steelers pick is the same as your opinion saying it will. Your argument would have as much merit as mine if you would have brought 2012 draft facts instead of stats about the drafts past. Being that right now it is a very weak draft at the top for OT & OG until some underclassmen declare....I will stick to my opinion. You talk about trend and alternating picks has nothing to do with the conversation. The draft is based on what a team needs and what players that are available and where they grade out. Implying that there is anything there but sheer coincidence really shows a lack of intelligence and football knowledge. There is no trend. Play the lottery if that is what you are looking for.

You sound dyslexic. It's hard to read your posts. Just listen to what you're writing here. Here is your exact quote...

"The Steelers won't have a shot at a Top OT picking outside the Top 25. It is my opinion AND FACT."

Hahahaha. You don't know that. Nobody knows that. It's in the future. That is called a prediction. That is an opinion. That is not a fact. If you don't understand that I don't know what else there is to discuss.

Top players slip every year in the draft. I would give you examples but apparently you don't like those. You don't even know what number we will be drafting this year (25th or 32nd?). Nobody does. So how can you say if there will be value or not at OG when you don't even know our draft order?

I have laid out for you specific names/dates/examples supporting my argument. You have not. That's lazy debating. You seem like the type who doesn't like numbers or statistics or history. I have friends like that. Any time they hear a statistic or historical fact they don't like they throw it out as meaningless. It's a bad habit.

The Steelers have drafted four OG's in the first round. Regardless of what you may think of me, that is not my opinion, that is a fact. You can ask your friends or look it up online. Some good OT's have been drafted after the top 25 picks. If you'd like I can list them for you but it might do you more good to look it up yourself.

The points I do agree with you on are: (1) We need to wait until the juniors declare to figure out value rankings. (2) We need to draft youth at NT, ILB, S. (3) The Steelers need to draft a good OG. The rest... I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

Dee Dub
12-02-2011, 04:19 PM
Farrior not an instinctive ILB?? The guy was born to play the inside in a 3-4. Farrior only has the size of a bigger-sized safety for gods sake and is 36 years old playing a very demanding position at a high level.

Foote is consistent but I never thought he had the size to play the inside. Farrior got away with being undersized because he knows how to play the position very well. Good vision, good instincts, prototypical ILB, knows how to fill the gap, and can fight off blocks. I can't think of a better free agent that the steelers picked up in the last 20 years that are better than Farrior with the exception of Bettis.

That's not what you said. You implied that he was instinctive in relation to stopping the run. I will say over all he was a pretty instinctive LB but he was never a great run stuffer.

And I agree with you....overall he was as good as it gets for an ILB in a 3-4. But that is based on what he brought to the position as a whole.

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
12-02-2011, 04:36 PM
You sound dyslexic. It's hard to read your posts. Just listen to what you're writing here. Here is your exact quote...

"The Steelers won't have a shot at a Top OT picking outside the Top 25. It is my opinion AND FACT."

Hahahaha. You don't know that. Nobody knows that. It's in the future. That is called a prediction. That is an opinion. That is not a fact. If you don't understand that I don't know what else there is to discuss.

Top players slip every year in the draft. I would give you examples but apparently you don't like those. You don't even know what number we will be drafting this year (25th or 32nd?). Nobody does. So how can you say if there will be value or not at OG when you don't even know our draft order?

I have laid out for you specific names/dates/examples supporting my argument. You have not. That's lazy debating. You seem like the type who doesn't like numbers or statistics or history. I have friends like that. Any time they hear a statistic or historical fact they don't like they throw it out as meaningless. It's a bad habit.

The Steelers have drafted four OG's in the first round. Regardless of what you may think of me, that is not my opinion, that is a fact. You can ask your friends or look it up online. Some good OT's have been drafted after the top 25 picks. If you'd like I can list them for you but it might do you more good to look it up yourself.

The points I do agree with you on are: (1) We need to wait until the juniors declare to figure out value rankings. (2) We need to draft youth at NT, ILB, S. (3) The Steelers need to draft a good OG. The rest... I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.


Takes a small man to say someone sounds dyslexic from behind a computer screen. It isn't my fault you aren't intelligent enough to figure out what I said. Top OT...Outside of top 25. If he was a Top OT he wouldn't be outside the Top 25. You didn't lay anything out. Sherrod didn't start a game this year. What a Top OT talent! Then you used names of guys available after we selected Pouncey. Doesn't that sound moronic to you? That's your argument? Come on...I really thought I was dealing with someone with a little intelligence.

Never disputed the Steelers didn't draft Gs. You keep barking up that tree and nothing is there. I can name drafted players by the Steelers without even picking up a source. The point...There may not be the Top OL you are refering to. Look at the guys in the draft right now. The Steelers biggest need over the last three years have been interior OL and CB and the Steelers didn't go that direction 2 out of 3 because...There wasn't anyone graded out there. Right now...There are ILB & DT that could be available. It's early but that is the story now. It is easy to go back now and look. I agree there is good players at every position outside the Top 25. That doesn't prove anything on your side.

RuthlessBurgher
12-02-2011, 04:42 PM
Here are the actual numbers. Over the last ten years, the Steelers defense points per game allowed are:

2011 - 17.1
2010 - 14.5 (lost Super Bowl)
2009 - 20.3 (won Super Bowl)
2008 - 13.9
2007 - 16.8
2006 - 19.7 (won Super Bowl)
2005 - 16.1
2004 - 15.7
2003 - 20.4
2002 - 21.6

We were not in the Super Bowl in back-to-back years this past decade. Although SBXL was in February 2006 and SBXLIII was in February 2009, those Super Bowls count as part of the 2005 and 2008 NFL seasons, respectively.

grotonsteel
12-02-2011, 07:08 PM
Are there any NT worth Rd 1 pick??

The kid from Washington does not impress me. He was blown away while playing against Stanford.

Any scouting report on Ryan Miller, G, Colorado, Nico Johnson LB and Markelle Martin, SS, Oklahoma State?

Dee Dub
12-02-2011, 07:23 PM
Are there any NT worth Rd 1 pick??

The kid from Washington does not impress me. He was blown away while playing against Stanford.

Any scouting report on Ryan Miller, G, Colorado, Nico Johnson LB and Markelle Martin, SS, Oklahoma State?

Yes, I think Brandon Thompson of Clemson is a legit 1st round NT.

I've been talking about Nico Johnson and Markelle Martin for months. where you been? :D

grotonsteel
12-03-2011, 11:58 AM
Are there any NT worth Rd 1 pick??

The kid from Washington does not impress me. He was blown away while playing against Stanford.

Any scouting report on Ryan Miller, G, Colorado, Nico Johnson LB and Markelle Martin, SS, Oklahoma State?

Yes, I think Brandon Thompson of Clemson is a legit 1st round NT.

I've been talking about Nico Johnson and Markelle Martin for months. where you been? :D


I know you like Nico and Martin :) ...One question though is Nico good because he plays in defense with Josh Chapman in front and Donta besides him or he is good?? Where is he expected to go in draft?

OG who has brains and ILB/Safety would be picks in first 3 rd picks in 2012.

Steelers have a NT in McLendon. No way Steelers will be drafting 3 1st Rd picks on D-line. I think they might draft a backup NT in 3rd or 4th Rd.

PSU_dropout43
12-03-2011, 12:16 PM
btw .. Wikipedia has Lavonte David listed at 210 lbs. I want a ILB that is 245-250. Get me an SEC guy w/ size and speed. :)

Danny Trevathan, Kentucky 6'1 230 (about the size of Ray Lewis when Lewis entered the NFL)

RuthlessBurgher
12-03-2011, 04:07 PM
There's Dontari Poe from Memphis who might garner consideration on day one or two if he comes out this year. Dude's massive (350 lbs) but taller than what we are used to at NT (he's 6'5" as opposed to Casey Hampton, who is a stout 6'1"). Of course, the Ravens' Mount Cody is 6'4" (plus Ted Washington was 6'5" and Sam Adams was 6'3"), so there have been tall NT's before.

Dee Dub
12-03-2011, 06:02 PM
btw .. Wikipedia has Lavonte David listed at 210 lbs. I want a ILB that is 245-250. Get me an SEC guy w/ size and speed. :)

Nebraska has him listed at 225. So does NFL Draft Scout. I'd take that over Wikipedia.

And again, he adds 10 lbs and he's right there where Larry Foote is.

..and again..I say he isnt the prototypical 3-4 ILB but with the NFL changing to a pass happy league, he would bring a lot to the position that others dont.

I could see him helping a lot versus the Packers, Saints, Patriots, etc.

steelz09
12-03-2011, 08:02 PM
I'll pass on him. We have that "guy" in Timmons. Teams won't need to pass on us, they'll just run it right up the middle and average 5+ yards.

I want a guy w/ power, blitzing, and run stuffing capability.

Dee Dub
12-03-2011, 08:18 PM
I'll pass on him. We have that "guy" in Timmons. Teams won't need to pass on us, they'll just run it right up the middle and average 5+ yards.

I want a guy w/ power, blitzing, and run stuffing capability.

But if that happens then your 3 guys upfront arent doing their jobs. :wink:

And those things you want?...I still think David could do those things to a degree, and then bring stuff that the prototypical ILB 3-4 can't. Blitzing? with his speed and athleticism...he would be a huge upgrade in that area.

Dee Dub
12-03-2011, 08:20 PM
I'll pass on him. We have that "guy" in Timmons. Teams won't need to pass on us, they'll just run it right up the middle and average 5+ yards.

I want a guy w/ power, blitzing, and run stuffing capability.


..but I will also say this, if Vontaze Burfict and Lavonte David are both on the board, I'd take Burfict because of those things that you mention. I just think that David could pull the position off and add a new dimension or two.