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View Full Version : So much for teams struggling after the bye week



WindyCitySteel
11-29-2011, 10:12 AM
The Saints put up one shy of a 50-burger coming off a bye, where supposedly the new NFL practice rules smothered the rested team like a lead suit of armor.

The Pack put up 45 in a win following their bye week.

The Bears put up 30 in a win following their bye week.

The Falcons put up 31 in a win following their bye week.

The Ravens put up 29 in a win following their bye week.

The Jets put up 27 in a win following their bye week.

The Texans put up 20 in a win with a 2nd and 3rd string QB following their bye week.

The Bengals put up 34 in a win following their bye week.

Can we put this excuse to bed now? Our offense just stinks.

rockonsteel
11-29-2011, 11:56 AM
The Saints put up one shy of a 50-burger coming off a bye, where supposedly the new NFL practice rules smothered the rested team like a lead suit of armor.

The Pack put up 45 in a win following their bye week.

The Bears put up 30 in a win following their bye week.

The Falcons put up 31 in a win following their bye week.

The Ravens put up 29 in a win following their bye week.

The Jets put up 27 in a win following their bye week.

The Texans put up 20 in a win with a 2nd and 3rd string QB following their bye week.

The Bengals put up 34 in a win following their bye week.

Can we put this excuse to bed now? Our offense just stinks.


Bravo!! :Clap :Clap :Clap

I get so jealous watching teams like the Packers, Saints, Pats, Texans run their offense so smoothly and efficiently. Other teams routinely score 3, 4 tds a game.

And in the games when they're really on, they might put up 5 or 6, sometimes 7, like the 49 pt. offensive explosion the Saints had last night. (When is the last time the Steelers scored more than 40 pts. in a game?)

Meanwhile the Steelers struggle to score 2 tds a game, and barely score 20 a game. An offensive explosion for the Steelers is like 27 pts.

It's so rare for the Steelers to score 30 pts. in a game. If the Steelers offense puts up 3 tds in a particular game, break out the champagne, because there would be your offensive explosion.

This is offense severly underachieves, and leaves way too many pts. on the field. To struggle and score only 13 pts. against the lowly Chiefs, after your defense got you 4 turnovers, is truly, truly embarrasssing. It won't change as long as the village idiot is calling the plays.

So, in summary, I agree. This offense just stinks!


Rockon

feltdizz
11-29-2011, 12:00 PM
we could and should put up more points but we also build character with close wins. LOL...

Are team lacks the focus it takes to put up big numbers. Anytime we are up by 14 points we find a creative way to keep teams in the game.

While it's frustrating who can honestly say they watch the Pats and GB once they are up by 21?

I like blowouts and crushing the opponent but honestly... when we spanked Tenn. I was turning to other games once we were up big.

Blowouts are boring... don't get me wrong, I don't like sloppy football either but I prefer a closer game.

BradshawsHairdresser
11-29-2011, 12:11 PM
Did this Steelers team look at the bye as a week off, or as an extra week to prepare? Of course, I don't know the answer to that, but the outcome makes me wonder.

skyhawk
11-29-2011, 04:26 PM
The Steelers O and BA put themselves to sleep in the methodical and predictable scheme that they use. Therefore points are secondary to actually CALLING plays.

They only hope to score as a byproduct instead of using ANY form of urgency (no-huddle, etc).

papillon
11-29-2011, 05:27 PM
Personally, ,I think that we look at the Steelers offensive players and believe they have more talent than they actually do at this point in time.

Ben is a top tier quarterback and that hides many deficiencies.

The running backs are average to above average, none of them are good to great, we believe Mendenhall may be better than he actually is because of his draft position.

The WRs are good and getting better, but they are young and inexperienced and it showed against the Chiefs. These guys are going to be great, but they aren't yet.

The offensive line is still looking for cohesion and the same starting lineup in consecutive games. Injuries, brain cramps, average talent and a very good coach are keeping the offensive line together right now. With Pouncey out against the Chiefs the offensive line became rather offensive. The calls, blocking assignments, slides, etc all became Keystone Coppish without Pouncey directing. Starks has helped "solidify" the line as well and is giving Ben a certain amount of confidence that he will have time to go through his progressions. They won't be mistaken for a high caliber offensive line any time soon.

So, the Steelers have a great quarterback and average to above average talent everywhere else and we expect this offense to perform like the Saints and Packers? Hardly. This version of the Steelers offense is performing exactly as I would expect, sometimes very good, sometimes average and sometimes (unfortunately) poorly. As the receivers mature, the offensive line gels and the running backs get some lanes in which to run the offense will become more consistent; I wouldn't expect it this year.

Pappy

sd steel
11-29-2011, 05:57 PM
Did we win??

Then who cares? We are 8-3, we have 6 world championships, we have been to the Super Bowl in 3 of the last 7 years and won 2 of them, and you are whining about not scoring enough points after the bye week? Maybe you can root for San Diego, they put up alot of points normally.:)

JAR
11-29-2011, 06:09 PM
Since the Steelers never do anything right according to you, maybe you should make yourself less miserable by becoming a fan of one of those other teams.

skyhawk
11-29-2011, 07:07 PM
Since the Steelers never do anything right according to you, maybe you should make yourself less miserable by becoming a fan of one of those other teams.

Those fans are happier. It gives them more points on Sundays for their fantasy teams!!

WindyCitySteel
11-29-2011, 07:10 PM
@papillon - Nice analysis. I think you might be right, although I think we need to use Mendy and Heath much more than we do in the passing game. But play calling has always been a grab bag with Arians, and I expect this to continue, despite the hope he gave me in the NE game.

@sd and JAR - Put the fan card back in the deck.

sd steel
11-29-2011, 07:44 PM
Why should I "put the fan card back in the deck"? I'm a Steeler fan on a Steeler fan forum. I have been a Steeler fan since 1968, and I have seen good and bad times. Only scoring 13 points after a bye and winning is not a bad thing.

DukieBoy
11-29-2011, 07:57 PM
Why should I "put the fan card back in the deck"? I'm a Steeler fan on a Steeler fan forum. I have been a Steeler fan since 1968, and I have seen good and bad times. Only scoring 13 points after a bye and winning is not a bad thing.

:Clap :Clap :Clap

WindyCitySteel
11-29-2011, 08:01 PM
Why should I "put the fan card back in the deck"? I'm a Steeler fan on a Steeler fan forum. I have been a Steeler fan since 1968, and I have seen good and bad times. Only scoring 13 points after a bye and winning is not a bad thing.

I'm not questioning your fan hood, nor should you mine.

fezziwig
11-29-2011, 08:07 PM
BA has a race car offense but, he doesn't know how to drive.

skyhawk
11-29-2011, 08:24 PM
BA has a race car offense but, he doesn't know how to drive.

A race car engine with bald tires.

JAR
11-29-2011, 09:19 PM
Why should I "put the fan card back in the deck"? I'm a Steeler fan on a Steeler fan forum. I have been a Steeler fan since 1968, and I have seen good and bad times. Only scoring 13 points after a bye and winning is not a bad thing.

Really. I've also been a Steelers fan for 40 plus years. They have never once made me whine, beetch or complain. I've been upset when they've lost a big game, but still never complained constantly about every thing the team hasn't done perfectly.

People that allow the Steelers to bring them such misery even when they are doing good, should just quit watching.

NJ-STEELER
11-29-2011, 09:31 PM
Personally, ,I think that we look at the Steelers offensive players and believe they have more talent than they actually do at this point in time.

Ben is a top tier quarterback and that hides many deficiencies.

The running backs are average to above average, none of them are good to great, we believe Mendenhall may be better than he actually is because of his draft position.

The WRs are good and getting better, but they are young and inexperienced and it showed against the Chiefs. These guys are going to be great, but they aren't yet.

The offensive line is still looking for cohesion and the same starting lineup in consecutive games. Injuries, brain cramps, average talent and a very good coach are keeping the offensive line together right now. With Pouncey out against the Chiefs the offensive line became rather offensive. The calls, blocking assignments, slides, etc all became Keystone Coppish without Pouncey directing. Starks has helped "solidify" the line as well and is giving Ben a certain amount of confidence that he will have time to go through his progressions. They won't be mistaken for a high caliber offensive line any time soon.

So, the Steelers have a great quarterback and average to above average talent everywhere else and we expect this offense to perform like the Saints and Packers? Hardly. This version of the Steelers offense is performing exactly as I would expect, sometimes very good, sometimes average and sometimes (unfortunately) poorly. As the receivers mature, the offensive line gels and the running backs get some lanes in which to run the offense will become more consistent; I wouldn't expect it this year.

Pappy

$$

the receivers aren't anything extra special cept for wally's speed. and they're pretty small considering the league's standards.

consider out last opponent the chiefs spending 2 1st round picks on big physical WR types. i like our guys and think we can win with them (heck, we've won with a trio of hines, el and ced as our top wideouts). as they gain more experience they should become even better

also heath's a great all around TE but he isnt the downfield receiving threat that we're seeing come into the league now

fezziwig
11-29-2011, 09:49 PM
I think Saunders can be that type of guy.

sd steel
11-29-2011, 10:24 PM
Why should I "put the fan card back in the deck"? I'm a Steeler fan on a Steeler fan forum. I have been a Steeler fan since 1968, and I have seen good and bad times. Only scoring 13 points after a bye and winning is not a bad thing.

I'm not questioning your fan hood, nor should you mine.

You said for me to put the fan card back in the deck, I was just telling you to quit whining like a chick.

sd steel
11-29-2011, 10:26 PM
I think Saunders can be that type of guy.

I agree I think Saunders is going to be a beast.

WindyCitySteel
11-29-2011, 11:36 PM
[quote="sd steel":26b9pmad]Why should I "put the fan card back in the deck"? I'm a Steeler fan on a Steeler fan forum. I have been a Steeler fan since 1968, and I have seen good and bad times. Only scoring 13 points after a bye and winning is not a bad thing.

I'm not questioning your fan hood, nor should you mine.

You said for me to put the fan card back in the deck, I was just telling you to quit whining like a chick.[/quote:26b9pmad]

I was referring to your comment about me rooting for the Chargers. If you're so threatened by any negative commentary on the Steelers, maybe you should post at steelers.com.

Because I complain doesn't mean I don't bleed for this ****ing team every week since I can remember.

So don't put the fan card back in the deck. Fold it once, lengthwise, then roll to a point and park it way, way up there.

WindyCitySteel
11-29-2011, 11:41 PM
Why should I "put the fan card back in the deck"? I'm a Steeler fan on a Steeler fan forum. I have been a Steeler fan since 1968, and I have seen good and bad times. Only scoring 13 points after a bye and winning is not a bad thing.

Really. I've also been a Steelers fan for 40 plus years. They have never once made me whine, beetch or complain. I've been upset when they've lost a big game, but still never complained constantly about every thing the team hasn't done perfectly.

Nobody here does that. We just don't stick our heads in the sand when there are issues with the team. Thankfully, neither does the team. Did you hear Tomlin's PC? He was rip**** mad at their performance in KC. Good for him, but by all means, don't let him wilt your pom-poms.



People that allow the Steelers to bring them such misery even when they are doing good, should just quit watching.

I'm not miserable, and I don't think we're "doing good". I think we're treading water. We need to pick it up to compete in the playoffs.

You and SD are old timers like me. I appreciate these great runs my team has given me, but I also realize how fleeting they are. We lost Terry and didn't win another ring for 25 years. Ben gets hit a crapton and isn't going to play forever. Maybe I'm spoiled but division titles don't get my engine revved anymore. It's about the Lombardi.

sd steel
11-30-2011, 01:00 AM
[quote="sd steel":2cm0zd2h]Why should I "put the fan card back in the deck"? I'm a Steeler fan on a Steeler fan forum. I have been a Steeler fan since 1968, and I have seen good and bad times. Only scoring 13 points after a bye and winning is not a bad thing.

I'm not questioning your fan hood, nor should you mine.

You said for me to put the fan card back in the deck, I was just telling you to quit whining like a chick.

I was referring to your comment about me rooting for the Chargers. If you're so threatened by any negative commentary on the Steelers, maybe you should post at steelers.com.

Because I complain doesn't mean I don't bleed for this bad word team every week since I can remember.

So don't put the fan card back in the deck. Fold it once, lengthwise, then roll to a point and park it way, way up there.[/quote:2cm0zd2h]

I wasn't saying to root for the Chargers because I don't think you are a fan, I mentioned the Chargers because they normally put up alot of points, but lose anyways. A win is a win whether it's by 1 point or 50. I looked at this game as very positive for us, because we normally lose games where we don't take advantage of turnovers and we let an inferior opponent stick around til the last drive. We closed the deal on "trap game". That in itself bodes well for our season. We aren't going to blow every team out, but the key is to win games that you don't execute your best in and to find ways to win. We did that, without Pouncey, Troy and Woodley in a place that we have blown games in the past. Was it pretty? no, but as Tomlin says, there's no such thing as style points in the NFL.

And no I won't shove the card up your a$$.

fezziwig
11-30-2011, 07:31 AM
I doubt their are any or many Steeler fans that are 100% negative about the team.
Even after a win the coaches talk more or only on the things that they need to repair rather than gush over the good plays.

To me complaining/pointing out flaws a team needs to address is pretty much what fans do outside of cheering for them on game day or the wish list of players you would like during draft season.

For me to view my team and give them unconditional love is never going to happen. I save that kind of love for my kids, parents and God above.

WindyCitySteel
11-30-2011, 09:21 AM
A win is a win whether it's by 1 point or 50. I looked at this game as very positive for us, because we normally lose games where we don't take advantage of turnovers and we let an inferior opponent stick around til the last drive. We closed the deal on "trap game". That in itself bodes well for our season. We aren't going to blow every team out, but the key is to win games that you don't execute your best in and to find ways to win.

Right, a win is a win, but don't kid yourself into believing that barely beating a bunch of tomato cans on the way to a good record means that you're a SB team. People have been tearing apart SF in anticipation of that game because they supposedly haven't played anyone, but by your standards I assume you think they're better than us because a win is a win and they have more wins.

And yeah, it's great to win when you're not playing your best, but at what point will we be playing our best? Veteran team, 11 games in, and we're finding ourselves? Maybe papillon is right - there is a way off this island - uh, err, I mean, maybe we're playing as well as we can.

I don't care who was missing last game, we had a bye to prepare for Tyler Palko, he obliged with four gift wrapped turnovers, and we barely escaped with a win. We'll lose to Cleveland if we repeat that effort.

sd steel
11-30-2011, 12:10 PM
A win is a win whether it's by 1 point or 50. I looked at this game as very positive for us, because we normally lose games where we don't take advantage of turnovers and we let an inferior opponent stick around til the last drive. We closed the deal on "trap game". That in itself bodes well for our season. We aren't going to blow every team out, but the key is to win games that you don't execute your best in and to find ways to win.

Right, a win is a win, but don't kid yourself into believing that barely beating a bunch of tomato cans on the way to a good record means that you're a SB team. People have been tearing apart SF in anticipation of that game because they supposedly haven't played anyone, but by your standards I assume you think they're better than us because a win is a win and they have more wins.

And yeah, it's great to win when you're not playing your best, but at what point will we be playing our best? Veteran team, 11 games in, and we're finding ourselves? Maybe papillon is right - there is a way off this island - uh, err, I mean, maybe we're playing as well as we can.

I don't care who was missing last game, we had a bye to prepare for Tyler Palko, he obliged with four gift wrapped turnovers, and we barely escaped with a win. We'll lose to Cleveland if we repeat that effort.

First of all, no one in the NFL is a tomato can. The league is set up so any team can beat anyother team on any given day. The reason why people are questioning San Fran is because they are having success where they haven't in the past with the same personnel. Basically they brought in a coach who told them they were great and they are believing it, Palko and Alex Smith are similar QBs, except Smith has a couple years under his belt and he has a coach who has made him believe in himself as opposed to having Mike Singletary telling him that he sucks and the 85 Bears would kill him.

What you fail to see, which suprises me for someone who is a longtime fan like me is the season is extremely long and every season has ups and downs. All that really matters during the regular season is we win enough games to get into the playoffs, then we hope that we start peaking and we make a good run. Remember this is the same team that beat the Pats** earlier in the year. We have the talent and the scheme to beat anyone in the league, and we also have the problems that everyother team in the league does to make us lose even to the dregs of the league...just like every other team in the NFL. If Wallace catches the first TD and the deep ball or if Ben doesn't throw the pick this could have been a blowout. Every game has 3 or 4 plays that could turn the tide in a big way, and against KC we didn't execute on those plays, but we still won so I don't see the purpose of bitching about how many points we scored. No game in this league is a sure thing, and we have a history of losing similar games, so I am content with the victory, and there is alot of season left. That being said, I didn't jump off a bridge when we got blown out by the Ravens in game one either. I think we are in a pretty good position to get into the playoffs and make a run, and maybe I have the "glass is half full" attitude because I have watched 40+ years of Steeler football, and I also have seen the high scoring Chargers fail year in and year out. The points don't matter as long as you have more at the end of the game than your opponent.

rockonsteel
11-30-2011, 12:23 PM
[quote="sd steel":2z8iji1t]
A win is a win whether it's by 1 point or 50. I looked at this game as very positive for us, because we normally lose games where we don't take advantage of turnovers and we let an inferior opponent stick around til the last drive. We closed the deal on "trap game". That in itself bodes well for our season. We aren't going to blow every team out, but the key is to win games that you don't execute your best in and to find ways to win.

Right, a win is a win, but don't kid yourself into believing that barely beating a bunch of tomato cans on the way to a good record means that you're a SB team. People have been tearing apart SF in anticipation of that game because they supposedly haven't played anyone, but by your standards I assume you think they're better than us because a win is a win and they have more wins.

And yeah, it's great to win when you're not playing your best, but at what point will we be playing our best? Veteran team, 11 games in, and we're finding ourselves? Maybe papillon is right - there is a way off this island - uh, err, I mean, maybe we're playing as well as we can.

I don't care who was missing last game, we had a bye to prepare for Tyler Palko, he obliged with four gift wrapped turnovers, and we barely escaped with a win. We'll lose to Cleveland if we repeat that effort.

First of all, no one in the NFL is a tomato can. The league is set up so any team can beat anyother team on any given day. The reason why people are questioning San Fran is because they are having success where they haven't in the past with the same personnel. Basically they brought in a coach who told them they were great and they are believing it, Palko and Alex Smith are similar QBs, except Smith has a couple years under his belt and he has a coach who has made him believe in himself as opposed to having Mike Singletary telling him that he sucks and the 85 Bears would kill him.

What you fail to see, which suprises me for someone who is a longtime fan like me is the season is extremely long and every season has ups and downs. All that really matters during the regular season is we win enough games to get into the playoffs, then we hope that we start peaking and we make a good run. Remember this is the same team that beat the Pats** earlier in the year. We have the talent and the scheme to beat anyone in the league, and we also have the problems that everyother team in the league does to make us lose even to the dregs of the league...just like every other team in the NFL. If Wallace catches the first TD and the deep ball or if Ben doesn't throw the pick this could have been a blowout. Every game has 3 or 4 plays that could turn the tide in a big way, and against KC we didn't execute on those plays, but we still won so I don't see the purpose of bitching about how many points we scored. No game in this league is a sure thing, and we have a history of losing similar games, so I am content with the victory, and there is alot of season left. That being said, I didn't jump off a bridge when we got blown out by the Ravens in game one either. I think we are in a pretty good position to get into the playoffs and make a run, and maybe I have the "glass is half full" attitude because I have watched 40+ years of Steeler football, and I also have seen the high scoring Chargers fail year in and year out. The points don't matter as long as you have more at the end of the game than your opponent.[/quote:2z8iji1t]


Because those type of games tend to come back and bite you in the a$$ somewhere along the way. And the Steelers keep walking that line. But, beyond that, it's simply maddening to watch this offense underachieve week in and week out.


Rockon

sd steel
11-30-2011, 12:34 PM
Because those type of games tend to come back and bite you in the a$$ somewhere along the way. And the Steelers keep walking that line. But, beyond that, it's simply maddening to watch this offense underachieve week in and week out.

Don't forget, there is another team on the field and it's their job to stop you. Are they really underacheiving? Or is it that some people don't take into account that you aren't going to score on every drive in the NFL?

JAR
11-30-2011, 12:45 PM
Why should I "put the fan card back in the deck"? I'm a Steeler fan on a Steeler fan forum. I have been a Steeler fan since 1968, and I have seen good and bad times. Only scoring 13 points after a bye and winning is not a bad thing.

Really. I've also been a Steelers fan for 40 plus years. They have never once made me whine, beetch or complain. I've been upset when they've lost a big game, but still never complained constantly about every thing the team hasn't done perfectly.

Nobody here does that. We just don't stick our heads in the sand when there are issues with the team. Thankfully, neither does the team. Did you hear Tomlin's PC? He was rip**** mad at their performance in KC. Good for him, but by all means, don't let him wilt your pom-poms.



People that allow the Steelers to bring them such misery even when they are doing good, should just quit watching.

I'm not miserable, and I don't think we're "doing good". I think we're treading water. We need to pick it up to compete in the playoffs.

You and SD are old timers like me. I appreciate these great runs my team has given me, but I also realize how fleeting they are. We lost Terry and didn't win another ring for 25 years. Ben gets hit a crapton and isn't going to play forever. Maybe I'm spoiled but division titles don't get my engine revved anymore. It's about the Lombardi.

Of course there are issues, there always are. They are 8-3. Every year that they have gone to the SB, they've played the same way. If you're expecting a boring 35-3 blow out every week, it's not happening.

How boring would this team be if each and every week, they just annihilated the other team like you think they should? Why even watch? I'll take the edge of your seat nail biter every game of the year no matter who they are playing. That's football.

Other teams are paid to play. The Chiefs had a lot of emotion going into this game, the head coach and QB both growing up Steelers fans...etc, etc..

rockonsteel
11-30-2011, 01:06 PM
Because those type of games tend to come back and bite you in the a$$ somewhere along the way. And the Steelers keep walking that line. But, beyond that, it's simply maddening to watch this offense underachieve week in and week out.

Don't forget, there is another team on the field and it's their job to stop you. Are they really underacheiving? Or is it that some people don't take into account that you aren't going to score on every drive in the NFL?

Yeah, when you take into account that other teams with "franchise QBs" seem to be a lot more efficient offensively than the Steelers. The stinking Dolphins scored 40 on the Chiefs with Matt Moore at QB for christ sake! Stop making excuses and apologizing for poor offensive football. I don't expect them to score every drive. But scoring 2 tds appears to be something of a Herculean task with this offense. They have too much talent for that.

They may be winning games, but they are not playing well offensively, whether some people want to hear it or not. We've won Sbs like this in the past, and if they can pull it off again, I'll take it all day. They just make the path very precarious when they play down to bad teams, and keep letting them hang around where one play can be the difference between a win and a loss. Against better teams, the outcome may not be as favorable.

And do we not think the Colts were trying to stop the Saints when they dropped 60 pts. on them? I'm sure they were. Yet the Saints managed to score 60 anyway. That's what happens when good teams put their foot on the throats of inferior teams. The Steelers rarely, if ever do that. And they have the talent to do it, which makes it all the more frustrating.


Rockon

sd steel
11-30-2011, 01:51 PM
What no one here seems to realize that every game is different. There are different variables that go into every game. Just because team A beats team B by 40 points and we beat team A by 14 it doesn't mean that we should beat team B by 54 points.

Todd Haley had a vested interest in beating the Steelers because it was his favorite team and his father played and worked for the Steelers for many years. The weather was cold as compared to what we have been playing in and I think that and the hype before the game affected Wallace's play. Pouncey was expected to play, then after the first series he takes a seat and we end up having to move Legarsky to center and Kemo to guard...after benching Kemo. Hines was relegated to 4th string this week and Ben has a broken thumb. All of these little things as well as many other variables change the parameters of the game. All it takes is one O line let down or one bad pattern or one great play by a defender to shut down a drive. Everything doesn't go the way it is drawn up on paper the week prior to the game. To expect it to is only going to break your heart time and time again. Enjoy the win, we overcame obstacles and bettered our record to 8-3.

It is real easy to sit back and say the offense sucks because BA is horrible, but BA also came up with the plan to beat the Patriots.

WindyCitySteel
11-30-2011, 02:14 PM
Because those type of games tend to come back and bite you in the a$$ somewhere along the way. And the Steelers keep walking that line. But, beyond that, it's simply maddening to watch this offense underachieve week in and week out.

Don't forget, there is another team on the field and it's their job to stop you. Are they really underacheiving? Or is it that some people don't take into account that you aren't going to score on every drive in the NFL?

That excuse works if it's the exception, but with these Steelers it's the rule. The offense just isn't very productive.

JAR
11-30-2011, 02:18 PM
What no one here seems to realize that every game is different. There are different variables that go into every game. Just because team A beats team B by 40 points and we beat team A by 14 it doesn't mean that we should beat team B by 54 points.

Todd Haley had a vested interest in beating the Steelers because it was his favorite team and his father played and worked for the Steelers for many years. The weather was cold as compared to what we have been playing in and I think that and the hype before the game affected Wallace's play. Pouncey was expected to play, then after the first series he takes a seat and we end up having to move Legarsky to center and Kemo to guard...after benching Kemo. Hines was relegated to 4th string this week and Ben has a broken thumb. All of these little things as well as many other variables change the parameters of the game. All it takes is one O line let down or one bad pattern or one great play by a defender to shut down a drive. Everything doesn't go the way it is drawn up on paper the week prior to the game. To expect it to is only going to break your heart time and time again. Enjoy the win, we overcame obstacles and bettered our record to 8-3.

It is real easy to sit back and say the offense sucks because BA is horrible, but BA also came up with the plan to beat the Patriots.

It has to be 35-3 every week or they suck! :wink:

WindyCitySteel
11-30-2011, 02:22 PM
What no one here seems to realize that every game is different. There are different variables that go into every game. Just because team A beats team B by 40 points and we beat team A by 14 it doesn't mean that we should beat team B by 54 points.

Todd Haley had a vested interest in beating the Steelers because it was his favorite team and his father played and worked for the Steelers for many years. The weather was cold as compared to what we have been playing in and I think that and the hype before the game affected Wallace's play. Pouncey was expected to play, then after the first series he takes a seat and we end up having to move Legarsky to center and Kemo to guard...after benching Kemo. Hines was relegated to 4th string this week and Ben has a broken thumb. All of these little things as well as many other variables change the parameters of the game. All it takes is one O line let down or one bad pattern or one great play by a defender to shut down a drive. Everything doesn't go the way it is drawn up on paper the week prior to the game. To expect it to is only going to break your heart time and time again. Enjoy the win, we overcame obstacles and bettered our record to 8-3.

It is real easy to sit back and say the offense sucks because BA is horrible, but BA also came up with the plan to beat the Patriots.

It has to be 35-3 every week or they suck! :wink:

Nonsense. Nobody is saying that. When your team fails to score points most every week, it's a little naive to say we don't have problems. You guys are playing mental twister here, blindly hoping the offense becomes explosive in the playoffs.

If we win a Super Bowl, it will be on the backs of the defense and late game heroics by Ben again. I'm fine with that, just don't tell me we have a great offense but every opponent just had our number that day, gosh darn the luck.

feltdizz
11-30-2011, 02:55 PM
It's a little sad that I'm now OK with our offense looking like azzz and hearing about how next week we will get it together. It's not really asking too much for 2 TD's vs KC when you have 4 TO's.

I don't think I've ever witnessed as many stupid mistakes that keep teams in games like I have with the Steelers. Up by 14 points it's free money to bet on an INT or costly mistake.

Funny thing is the PITT football and basketball programs are the exact same way.

It's a 3 river thing... you gotta understand.

feltdizz
11-30-2011, 03:01 PM
$$

the receivers aren't anything extra special cept for wally's speed. and they're pretty small considering the league's standards.

consider out last opponent the chiefs spending 2 1st round picks on big physical WR types. i like our guys and think we can win with them (heck, we've won with a trio of hines, el and ced as our top wideouts). as they gain more experience they should become even better

also heath's a great all around TE but he isnt the downfield receiving threat that we're seeing come into the league now

I don't agree...

We have weapons but we aren't using them right...

we try for the homerun too much and refuse to bench Mend for a chain mover because he doesn't have the draft status or the speed of Mend.

Heath is a great possession WR... more drops then usual but still a weapon. Ask the Pats*

Ben is part of the problem... sure he is great but he also decides where the ball goes and he likes to go downfield....

I watch a ton of football and I see teams with worse players getting better production. Enough with the excuses... we are an ugly team on offense because our D bails us out. If we didn't have this D I bet our O would show more urgency and put up more points.

JAR
11-30-2011, 03:03 PM
What no one here seems to realize that every game is different. There are different variables that go into every game. Just because team A beats team B by 40 points and we beat team A by 14 it doesn't mean that we should beat team B by 54 points.

Todd Haley had a vested interest in beating the Steelers because it was his favorite team and his father played and worked for the Steelers for many years. The weather was cold as compared to what we have been playing in and I think that and the hype before the game affected Wallace's play. Pouncey was expected to play, then after the first series he takes a seat and we end up having to move Legarsky to center and Kemo to guard...after benching Kemo. Hines was relegated to 4th string this week and Ben has a broken thumb. All of these little things as well as many other variables change the parameters of the game. All it takes is one O line let down or one bad pattern or one great play by a defender to shut down a drive. Everything doesn't go the way it is drawn up on paper the week prior to the game. To expect it to is only going to break your heart time and time again. Enjoy the win, we overcame obstacles and bettered our record to 8-3.

It is real easy to sit back and say the offense sucks because BA is horrible, but BA also came up with the plan to beat the Patriots.

It has to be 35-3 every week or they suck! :wink:

Nonsense. Nobody is saying that. When your team fails to score points most every week, it's a little naive to say we don't have problems. You guys are playing mental twister here, blindly hoping the offense becomes explosive in the playoffs.

If we win a Super Bowl, it will be on the backs of the defense and late game heroics by Ben again. I'm fine with that, just don't tell me we have a great offense but every opponent just had our number that day, gosh darn the luck.

Lets see, in 6 of their wins. they have scored 21 or more points, 2 of those were 30 plus point wins, that's not good enough? They are tenth in the league overall in scoring, playing in the division that has 4 of the top six defenses in the league.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... 447263-n=1 (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1)

feltdizz
11-30-2011, 03:04 PM
For me to view my team and give them unconditional love is never going to happen. I save that kind of love for my kids, parents and God above.

and beer :Beer

:Agree :Agree :Agree

rockonsteel
11-30-2011, 03:48 PM
What no one here seems to realize that every game is different. There are different variables that go into every game. Just because team A beats team B by 40 points and we beat team A by 14 it doesn't mean that we should beat team B by 54 points.

Todd Haley had a vested interest in beating the Steelers because it was his favorite team and his father played and worked for the Steelers for many years. The weather was cold as compared to what we have been playing in and I think that and the hype before the game affected Wallace's play. Pouncey was expected to play, then after the first series he takes a seat and we end up having to move Legarsky to center and Kemo to guard...after benching Kemo. Hines was relegated to 4th string this week and Ben has a broken thumb. All of these little things as well as many other variables change the parameters of the game. All it takes is one O line let down or one bad pattern or one great play by a defender to shut down a drive. Everything doesn't go the way it is drawn up on paper the week prior to the game. To expect it to is only going to break your heart time and time again. Enjoy the win, we overcame obstacles and bettered our record to 8-3.

It is real easy to sit back and say the offense sucks because BA is horrible, but BA also came up with the plan to beat the Patriots.

It has to be 35-3 every week or they suck! :wink:

Nonsense. Nobody is saying that. When your team fails to score points most every week, it's a little naive to say we don't have problems. You guys are playing mental twister here, blindly hoping the offense becomes explosive in the playoffs.

If we win a Super Bowl, it will be on the backs of the defense and late game heroics by Ben again. I'm fine with that, just don't tell me we have a great offense but every opponent just had our number that day, gosh darn the luck.

Lets see, in 6 of their wins. they have scored 21 or more points, 2 of those were 30 plus point wins, that's not good enough? They are tenth in the league overall in scoring, playing in the division that has 4 of the top six defenses in the league.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... 447263-n=1 (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1)

Pretty sneaky. Way to play the numbers game. Some people might even be fooled by your little parlor trick.

Allow me to submit, that in those 6 wins they only scored more than 2 tds in 4 of those games. And against the Colts, of the 23 pts. scored, one was a defensive td, one of four games where the offense was held to a lone td for the game. That's the same amount of games as they've scored more than 2 tds.

The other 3 games they scored exactly 2 tds. Again, so, that little numbers game could be slanted both ways. Their red zone efficiency is almost, no not almost, it is laughable.

So, you can try to slant the numbers, or you can go by what you see on the field during the game. I prefer the latter. And what I see tells me this offense is inconsistent at best, and embarassing at other times.

They were shutout in the 2nd half of the first Ravens, Jax, Chiefs and the 1st half of the Texans games. They were held to fgs in the 2nd halfs of the Pats and Colts games(last td against Indy was defense). By comparison, I heard somewhere yesterday, that the Saints have only had 5 scoreless quarters all season. The Steelers have 4 scoreless halves. Just something to chew on.

Sunday's struggle against the Chiefs was not an abberation. This offense struggles to put the ball in the endzone consistently.

In fact, it could be stated that games like the Titans and Cardinals games are the aberration.


Rockon

rockonsteel
11-30-2011, 03:55 PM
It is real easy to sit back and say the offense sucks because BA is horrible, but BA also came up with the plan to beat the Patriots.


If the blind squirrel runs back and forth across the park a hundred times, he's gonna stumble over an acorn or two.

It's called dumb luck.

BA calls 1 or 2, maybe 3 decent games a year. The rest are complete headscratchers with the offense tripping all over itself and no adjustments being made to counter whatever the defense is doing to give the offense problems. And, of course, the requisite redzone problems. All I can say is, "don't let em fool ya, oh no!!"



Rockon

sd steel
11-30-2011, 04:04 PM
It is real easy to sit back and say the offense sucks because BA is horrible, but BA also came up with the plan to beat the Patriots.


If the blind squirrel runs back and forth across the park a hundred times, he's gonna stumble over an acorn or two.

It's called dumb luck.

BA calls 1 or 2, maybe 3 decent games a year. The rest are complete headscratchers with the offense tripping all over itself and no adjustments being made to counter whatever the defense is doing to give the offense problems. And, of course, the requisite redzone problems. All I can say is, "don't let em fool ya, oh no!!"



Rockon

Well what are your credentials? With your vast football experience and your high offensive IQ why don't you put in for the OC job? I'm sure you can cure the redzone issues and make the adjustments necessary to put up 40 points a game. I'm sure you would be great! What coaching position do you currently hold, cause I am sure the Steelers job pays more. :tt1

ikestops85
11-30-2011, 04:18 PM
[Lets see, in 6 of their wins. they have scored 21 or more points, 2 of those were 30 plus point wins, that's not good enough? They are tenth in the league overall in scoring, playing in the division that has 4 of the top six defenses in the league.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... 447263-n=1 (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1)

Sorry JAR but we are not tenth in the league in overall scoring. We are tenth in the league in yardage. We are 19th in the league in points. This tells us we move the ball in between the twenties very well but we don't hit paydirt nearly as often as we should.

I think our big problem is when we hit the redzone we try to run and get stuffed at the LOS. If we could get 3, 4 or 5 yards on that running play we would be more successful scoring TDs.

rockonsteel
11-30-2011, 05:07 PM
[quote="sd steel":2lejms3i]It is real easy to sit back and say the offense sucks because BA is horrible, but BA also came up with the plan to beat the Patriots.


If the blind squirrel runs back and forth across the park a hundred times, he's gonna stumble over an acorn or two.

It's called dumb luck.

BA calls 1 or 2, maybe 3 decent games a year. The rest are complete headscratchers with the offense tripping all over itself and no adjustments being made to counter whatever the defense is doing to give the offense problems. And, of course, the requisite redzone problems. All I can say is, "don't let em fool ya, oh no!!"



Rockon

Well what are your credentials? With your vast football experience and your high offensive IQ why don't you put in for the OC job? I'm sure you can cure the redzone issues and make the adjustments necessary to put up 40 points a game. I'm sure you would be great! What coaching position do you currently hold, cause I am sure the Steelers job pays more. :tt1[/quote:2lejms3i]


Yeah, that's a nice little snappy comeback. Clever and all that. Could I do a better job given the resources and access he has? I can't answer that. Tell you what though. I'd love to be the D coordinator gameplanning against his offense. There are a lot of people holding various coaching positions who aren't very good. If everybody was good at it, nobody would ever be fired.

But this isn't about me. This is about Bruce Arians. And he is not very good at the job he does. The Steelers win in spite of his incompetence. His playcalling appears to be random. His gameplans are pedestrian at best. And his refusal to use a FB, and then trying to force tight ends to do the job, is simply brilliant. I could go on about this idiots deficiencies, but who the hell has the time?

I give you credit for trying to deflect the issue though. My credentials aren't important here other than me being a concerned Steelers fan.

I'm gonna go help the squirrel crack his nuts now. Anybody seen my glasses?

Rockon

fezziwig
11-30-2011, 05:29 PM
[quote="sd steel":rhik9dxy]It is real easy to sit back and say the offense sucks because BA is horrible, but BA also came up with the plan to beat the Patriots.


If the blind squirrel runs back and forth across the park a hundred times, he's gonna stumble over an acorn or two.

It's called dumb luck.

BA calls 1 or 2, maybe 3 decent games a year. The rest are complete headscratchers with the offense tripping all over itself and no adjustments being made to counter whatever the defense is doing to give the offense problems. And, of course, the requisite redzone problems. All I can say is, "don't let em fool ya, oh no!!"



Rockon

Well what are your credentials? With your vast football experience and your high offensive IQ why don't you put in for the OC job? I'm sure you can cure the redzone issues and make the adjustments necessary to put up 40 points a game. I'm sure you would be great! What coaching position do you currently hold, cause I am sure the Steelers job pays more. :tt1


Yeah, that's a nice little snappy comeback. Clever and all that. Could I do a better job given the resources and access he has? I can't answer that. Tell you what though. I'd love to be the D coordinator gameplanning against his offense. There are a lot of people holding various coaching positions who aren't very good. If everybody was good at it, nobody would ever be fired.

But this isn't about me. This is about Bruce Arians. And he is not very good at the job he does. The Steelers win in spite of his incompetence. His playcalling appears to be random. His gameplans are pedestrian at best. And his refusal to use a FB, and then trying to force tight ends to do the job, is simply brilliant. I could go on about this idiots deficiencies, but who the hell has the time?

I give you credit for trying to deflect the issue though. My credentials aren't important here other than me being a concerned Steelers fan.

I'm gonna go help the squirrel crack his nuts now. Anybody seen my glasses?

Rockon[/quote:rhik9dxy]



:Clap

feltdizz
11-30-2011, 07:03 PM
I wonder if defensive coordinators look forward to playing us. I doubt it but given how fans feel about BA iyou would think it would be rather easy to defeat us.

fezziwig
11-30-2011, 08:55 PM
They probably hate playing against Ben. Ben earns more on broken plays, buying time than Arians could draw up in two life times.

NJ-STEELER
11-30-2011, 11:25 PM
$$

the receivers aren't anything extra special cept for wally's speed. and they're pretty small considering the league's standards.

consider out last opponent the chiefs spending 2 1st round picks on big physical WR types. i like our guys and think we can win with them (heck, we've won with a trio of hines, el and ced as our top wideouts). as they gain more experience they should become even better

also heath's a great all around TE but he isnt the downfield receiving threat that we're seeing come into the league now

I don't agree...

We have weapons but we aren't using them right...

we try for the homerun too much and refuse to bench Mend for a chain mover because he doesn't have the draft status or the speed of Mend.

Heath is a great possession WR... more drops then usual but still a weapon. Ask the Pats*

Ben is part of the problem... sure he is great but he also decides where the ball goes and he likes to go downfield....

and we pay our defense to be like that...even draft that way. 2 de's in the last 3 years added to a defense thats been tops in the league for the last several years **scratches head**

heath was great (and uncovered a lot) vs NE. the pats defense was ranked near the bottom of the league and the offense looked good against them.

thats 1 defense the offense has faced that seems like the equivalent of some of the QB's the offenses have faced
(palko, tavaris jackso n, whoever the heck we faced vs. arizona, flacco x's 2, rookie dalton x.s 2 after this week, rookie gabbert

I watch a ton of football and I see teams with worse players getting better production. Enough with the excuses... we are an ugly team on offense because our D bails us out. If we didn't have this D I bet our O would show more urgency and put up more points.

if we didnt have this defense we wouldnt be paying top money to smith, hampton, the 3 LBs (with farrior not far behind) troy, ike etc etc and probably have some of the cap devoted more to the offense.
remember we didnt have enough cap room to bring max back at first, even though even the average fan could see he was the better option at LT

PS... to another poster regarding wes saunders. i think he's more like the heath miller TE then these smaller hybrid big WR/small TE types.
isnt he like 265 LBs

WindyCitySteel
12-01-2011, 01:42 AM
Lets see, in 6 of their wins. they have scored 21 or more points, 2 of those were 30 plus point wins, that's not good enough? They are tenth in the league overall in scoring, playing in the division that has 4 of the top six defenses in the league.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... 447263-n=1 (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1)

We're 19th in PPG, not 10th. No, not nearly good enough.

WindyCitySteel
12-01-2011, 01:49 AM
I wonder if defensive coordinators look forward to playing us. I doubt it but given how fans feel about BA iyou would think it would be rather easy to defeat us.

It's rather easy to stymie our offense. The defense and Ben operating outside of the game plan, be it no-huddle or after the original play breaks down, is what wins games for the Steelers.

Rockon is spot on - they win in spite of Arians.

JAR
12-01-2011, 09:36 AM
Lets see, in 6 of their wins. they have scored 21 or more points, 2 of those were 30 plus point wins, that's not good enough? They are tenth in the league overall in scoring, playing in the division that has 4 of the top six defenses in the league.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... 447263-n=1 (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1)

We're 19th in PPG, not 10th. No, not nearly good enough.

My bad, sorted the stats wrong. Ok, so they need to score 2.5 more points to move into tenth.

feltdizz
12-01-2011, 09:43 AM
I wonder if defensive coordinators look forward to playing us. I doubt it but given how fans feel about BA iyou would think it would be rather easy to defeat us.

It's rather easy to stymie our offense. The defense and Ben operating outside of the game plan, be it no-huddle or after the original play breaks down, is what wins games for the Steelers.

Rockon is spot on - they win in spite of Arians.

How many games have we won due to the no huddle this year? I think you guys are just looking to blame BA instead of the actual events that happen once the play starts.

How many WTF INT's has Ben thrown this year? How many were in the no huddle?
How many WTF plays have we had with holds or false starts?
All these things and the D play a role in our offense looking like trash.

We are 8-3.... we aren't going to salt away games like we did with Bettis on the roster.

Sure Ben has been clutch but he has thrown some boneheaded INT's this year... it's not all BA. It's the OL that we threw out there in week 1. It's the horrible red zone execution. It's Mend looking like azzzz. It's Miller dropping passes he usually catches.. It's young WR's making mistakes. We have injuries, Ward on the decline, etc....


To say it's success in spite of BA is pure laziness and pretty useless at this point in his career.

feltdizz
12-01-2011, 09:49 AM
Lets see, in 6 of their wins. they have scored 21 or more points, 2 of those were 30 plus point wins, that's not good enough? They are tenth in the league overall in scoring, playing in the division that has 4 of the top six defenses in the league.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... 447263-n=1 (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1)

We're 19th in PPG, not 10th. No, not nearly good enough.

My bad, sorted the stats wrong. Ok, so they need to score 2.5 more points to move into tenth.

Who cares how many points we score as long as we score more than the other team...

I swear some fans would rather be 3-8 with tons of fantasy stats.

WindyCitySteel
12-01-2011, 10:54 AM
Lets see, in 6 of their wins. they have scored 21 or more points, 2 of those were 30 plus point wins, that's not good enough? They are tenth in the league overall in scoring, playing in the division that has 4 of the top six defenses in the league.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... 447263-n=1 (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1)

We're 19th in PPG, not 10th. No, not nearly good enough.

My bad, sorted the stats wrong. Ok, so they need to score 2.5 more points to move into tenth.

Who cares how many points we score as long as we score more than the other team...

I swear some fans would rather be 3-8 with tons of fantasy stats.

You're still not getting it. We're not concerned with fantasy points, we're concerned with our team's ability to beat the better teams we'll see in January with an offense that is struggling mightily.

I don't even care if we succeed running or throwing. Just give me some consistency and look like there is a semblance of a clue as to what your identity is. I have no idea what this offense is supposed to be other than BA's mad scientist lab.

WindyCitySteel
12-01-2011, 10:56 AM
To say it's success in spite of BA is pure laziness and pretty useless at this point in his career.

Look at his resume. His offenses have always been average to poor. At this point in his career, he's plateau'd as an average to poor OC that can't get an interview despite being on three Super Bowl teams in five years.

BradshawsHairdresser
12-01-2011, 11:04 AM
To say it's success in spite of BA is pure laziness and pretty useless at this point in his career.

Look at his resume. His offenses have always been average to poor. At this point in his career, he's plateau'd as an average to poor OC that can't get an interview despite being on three Super Bowl teams in five years.

$$$
I don't think he'd still be with the Steelers except that Ben loves him.

JAR
12-01-2011, 12:21 PM
Lets see, in 6 of their wins. they have scored 21 or more points, 2 of those were 30 plus point wins, that's not good enough? They are tenth in the league overall in scoring, playing in the division that has 4 of the top six defenses in the league.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... 447263-n=1 (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1)

We're 19th in PPG, not 10th. No, not nearly good enough.

My bad, sorted the stats wrong. Ok, so they need to score 2.5 more points to move into tenth.

Who cares how many points we score as long as we score more than the other team...

I swear some fans would rather be 3-8 with tons of fantasy stats.

I don't care, I care about wins unlike others.

feltdizz
12-01-2011, 12:33 PM
Lets see, in 6 of their wins. they have scored 21 or more points, 2 of those were 30 plus point wins, that's not good enough? They are tenth in the league overall in scoring, playing in the division that has 4 of the top six defenses in the league.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats? ... 447263-n=1 (http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2011&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1)

We're 19th in PPG, not 10th. No, not nearly good enough.

My bad, sorted the stats wrong. Ok, so they need to score 2.5 more points to move into tenth.

Who cares how many points we score as long as we score more than the other team...

I swear some fans would rather be 3-8 with tons of fantasy stats.

You're still not getting it. We're not concerned with fantasy points, we're concerned with our team's ability to beat the better teams we'll see in January with an offense that is struggling mightily.

I don't even care if we succeed running or throwing. Just give me some consistency and look like there is a semblance of a clue as to what your identity is. I have no idea what this offense is supposed to be other than BA's mad scientist lab.

Our identity is to play down to lesser teams... we've always done this and it has nothing to do with BA.

We are a vertical team... if WR's drop passes and RB's miss holes or fumble at the GL blame them not the OC.

3 SB's in 7 years... 2 with BA as OC and people are still crying about winning in January.

It's like you guys are new Steeler fans and keep forgetting what our past results were.

feltdizz
12-01-2011, 12:34 PM
To say it's success in spite of BA is pure laziness and pretty useless at this point in his career.

Look at his resume. His offenses have always been average to poor. At this point in his career, he's plateau'd as an average to poor OC that can't get an interview despite being on three Super Bowl teams in five years.

$$$
I don't think he'd still be with the Steelers except that Ben loves him.

Then blame Ben...

and guess what people? We know BA hasn't been offered a HC job... but he has been to a few SB's and may get to a few more. That isn't a bad thing. :roll:

Slapstick
12-01-2011, 12:40 PM
The whole "didn't get an HC interview" is bogus...

Pat Shurmur is a HC, for God's sake...

He was so awesome as McNabb's QB coach for ten years and then the Rams' OC?

Really?

Josh McDaniels oversaw a prolific offense and was a HC...how did that work out for him?

How about Tony Sparano?

Owners pick who they want to pick...rarely do dark horse candidates get an HC job...

rockonsteel
12-01-2011, 01:24 PM
The whole "didn't get an HC interview" is bogus...

Pat Shurmur is a HC, for God's sake...

He was so awesome as McNabb's QB coach for ten years and then the Rams' OC?

Really?

Josh McDaniels oversaw a prolific offense and was a HC...how did that work out for him?

How about Tony Sparano?

Owners pick who they want to pick...rarely do dark horse candidates get an HC job...


My dude. You're missing the point entirely. Nobody is saying that every OC that gets a head coaching job is gonna be successful. Some will, some won't. History has shown this to be true.

However, the point is that they were good enough as OCs to get the attention of teams looking for a new coach. Whether or not they're successful once they're in the job, is a moot point. BA apparently has not impressed enough people in his current position as OC of the Pittsburgh Steelers, to warrant any other team interviewing him, let alone giving him a HC job.

Hell, even the QB coach Finchner got a HC job(granted it is college) while BA never even got a sniff. It has to say something about the guy that nobody sees him as being good enough to lead their football program, college or pro.

I wonder how many of you apologists would actually hire the guy if you were looking for someone to run the offense for your football club.


Rockon

feltdizz
12-01-2011, 01:59 PM
My dude.. your missing the point.

The Steelers have BA and continue to roll with him... like it or not someone in the NFL thinks BA is good enough to run an offense.

The HC argument is the only one you guys have... all the other one's have been debunked.

RuthlessBurgher
12-01-2011, 02:43 PM
The whole "didn't get an HC interview" is bogus...

Pat Shurmur is a HC, for God's sake...

He was so awesome as McNabb's QB coach for ten years and then the Rams' OC?

Really?

Josh McDaniels oversaw a prolific offense and was a HC...how did that work out for him?

How about Tony Sparano?

Owners pick who they want to pick...rarely do dark horse candidates get an HC job...


My dude. You're missing the point entirely. Nobody is saying that every OC that gets a head coaching job is gonna be successful. Some will, some won't. History has shown this to be true.

However, the point is that they were good enough as OCs to get the attention of teams looking for a new coach. Whether or not they're successful once they're in the job, is a moot point. BA apparently has not impressed enough people in his current position as OC of the Pittsburgh Steelers, to warrant any other team interviewing him, let alone giving him a HC job.

Hell, even the QB coach Finchner got a HC job(granted it is college) while BA never even got a sniff. It has to say something about the guy that nobody sees him as being good enough to lead their football program, college or pro.

I wonder how many of you apologists would actually hire the guy if you were looking for someone to run the offense for your football club.


Rockon

Keep in mind that Bruce Arians is 59 years old. He talked about possible retirement last year before Ben talked him out of it. Teams don't hire head coaches that are pushing 60 (unless they have multiple Super Bowl victories as a head coach like the 59 year old Mike Shanahan).

Teams are looking for coaches in the 30's or 40's. Josh McDaniels is 35. Pat Shurmur is 46. Tony Sparano is 50, but was hired to be H.C. of the Dolphins in 2008 when he was 47.

A 48 year old Randy Fichtner is more appealing than a 59 year old Bruce Arians, because he doesn't have a subscription to AARP Magazine just yet.

Slapstick
12-01-2011, 03:49 PM
Hell, even the QB coach Finchner got a HC job(granted it is college) while BA never even got a sniff. It has to say something about the guy that nobody sees him as being good enough to lead their football program, college or pro.

Rockon

My dude, Arians was the HC at Temple back when they were still in the Big East...

Also, I posted this on 11/22:


You're right...

It probably has nothing to do with the fact that Arians is older than all but a handful of NFL head coaches...especially those hired within the last few years...

Chan Gailey is a few months older as is Bill Belichick (but Belichick was hired 11 seasons ago)...

Tom Coughlin, Norv Turner and Mike Shanahan are older...but, all are long time head coaches in the league...

Pete Carroll is a little older as well...

That's your reason more than anything else...

rockonsteel
12-01-2011, 04:16 PM
Hell, even the QB coach Finchner got a HC job(granted it is college) while BA never even got a sniff. It has to say something about the guy that nobody sees him as being good enough to lead their football program, college or pro.

Rockon

My dude, Arians was the HC at Temple back when they were still in the Big East...

Also, I posted this on 11/22:


You're right...

It probably has nothing to do with the fact that Arians is older than all but a handful of NFL head coaches...especially those hired within the last few years...

Chan Gailey is a few months older as is Bill Belichick (but Belichick was hired 11 seasons ago)...

Tom Coughlin, Norv Turner and Mike Shanahan are older...but, all are long time head coaches in the league...

Pete Carroll is a little older as well...

That's your reason more than anything else...


Yeah, if he was any damn good at what he does, age wouldn't be a factor.


Rockon

rockonsteel
12-01-2011, 04:29 PM
My dude.. your missing the point.

The Steelers have BA and continue to roll with him... like it or not someone in the NFL thinks BA is good enough to run an offense.

Yeah, and he's doing a bang-up job there. Let me help you out with that....."no-bo-dy-but-the- Steelers-want-this-guy-running-their-offense." Hope that helps.

The HC argument is the only one you guys have... all the other one's have been debunked.


Debunked what?

You mean like the post somebody wrote regarding the Steelers scoring 20 pts. or more in 6 of their 8 wins. I posted a nice response to that regarding the amount of tds scored by the offense in those games. Funny how that was conveniently ignored.

There was an allusion to the Steelers being 10th overall in offensive ranking. Well, somebody else pointed out that that number refers to YPG, and not the all-important PPG stat, which the Steelers currently rank 19th. That's bottom half of the league. Not really a good look. Way to "trick up" the numbers, though.

And their are plenty other examples of similar "debunkments". The only thing being debunked here is the Steelers offense under Arians' watch.

So again.....debunked what?

Rockon

Slapstick
12-01-2011, 04:31 PM
Hell, even the QB coach Finchner got a HC job(granted it is college) while BA never even got a sniff. It has to say something about the guy that nobody sees him as being good enough to lead their football program, college or pro.

Rockon

My dude, Arians was the HC at Temple back when they were still in the Big East...

Also, I posted this on 11/22:


You're right...

It probably has nothing to do with the fact that Arians is older than all but a handful of NFL head coaches...especially those hired within the last few years...

Chan Gailey is a few months older as is Bill Belichick (but Belichick was hired 11 seasons ago)...

Tom Coughlin, Norv Turner and Mike Shanahan are older...but, all are long time head coaches in the league...

Pete Carroll is a little older as well...

That's your reason more than anything else...


Yeah, if he was any damn good at what he does, age wouldn't be a factor.


Rockon

You don't have to be good as a coordinator to get a HC job:

A current NFL head coach oversaw the #29 offense by yardage (#32 scoring) in 2009 and the #26 offense by yardage (#26 scoring) in 2010...

feltdizz
12-01-2011, 04:47 PM
My dude.. your missing the point.

The Steelers have BA and continue to roll with him... like it or not someone in the NFL thinks BA is good enough to run an offense.

Yeah, and he's doing a bang-up job there. Let me help you out with that....."no-bo-dy-but-the- Steelers-want-this-guy-running-their-offense." Hope that helps.

The HC argument is the only one you guys have... all the other one's have been debunked.


Debunked what?

You mean like the post somebody wrote regarding the Steelers scoring 20 pts. or more in 6 of their 8 wins. I posted a nice response to that regarding the amount of tds scored by the offense in those games. Funny how that was conveniently ignored.

There was an allusion to the Steelers being 10th overall in offensive ranking. Well, somebody else pointed out that that number refers to YPG, and not the all-important PPG stat, which the Steelers currently rank 19th. That's bottom half of the league. Not really a good look. Way to "trick up" the numbers, though.

And their are plenty other examples of similar "debunkments". The only thing being debunked here is the Steelers offense under Arians' watch.

So again.....debunked what?

Rockon

when did I point to the ppg as proof BA is good? In 2009 we had stats out the whazoo and everyone pointed to the losses...

Getting to SB's in 2 of the last 3 years and being retained by the Steelers is proof enough he doesn't suck.

No-Bo-Dy but the Steelers want BA well whoopdi freaking doo... deal with it or find a new team and OC to fall in love with.

rockonsteel
12-01-2011, 05:32 PM
My dude.. your missing the point.

The Steelers have BA and continue to roll with him... like it or not someone in the NFL thinks BA is good enough to run an offense.

Yeah, and he's doing a bang-up job there. Let me help you out with that....."no-bo-dy-but-the- Steelers-want-this-guy-running-their-offense." Hope that helps.

The HC argument is the only one you guys have... all the other one's have been debunked.


Debunked what?

You mean like the post somebody wrote regarding the Steelers scoring 20 pts. or more in 6 of their 8 wins. I posted a nice response to that regarding the amount of tds scored by the offense in those games. Funny how that was conveniently ignored.

There was an allusion to the Steelers being 10th overall in offensive ranking. Well, somebody else pointed out that that number refers to YPG, and not the all-important PPG stat, which the Steelers currently rank 19th. That's bottom half of the league. Not really a good look. Way to "trick up" the numbers, though.

And their are plenty other examples of similar "debunkments". The only thing being debunked here is the Steelers offense under Arians' watch.

So again.....debunked what?

Rockon

when did I point to the ppg as proof BA is good? In 2009 we had stats out the whazoo and everyone pointed to the losses...

Getting to SB's in 2 of the last 3 years and being retained by the Steelers is proof enough he doesn't suck.

No-Bo-Dy but the Steelers want BA well whoopdi freaking doo... deal with it or find a new team and OC to fall in love with.


First, I'll control my rooting interests. In fact the only thing you can control is whether or not you like it. And even once you figure that out, your options are really limited as to doing anything about it. So, you can stop wasting your breath.

Second, I'll say it again. The Steelers got to those SBs in spite of BA. They did not get there on the strength of a prolific offense. Far from it. The Steelers win because they have a top flight defense and a franchise QB. Not because BA is some sort of offensive genius.

Third, I never said you said anything. I asked you a simple question. What has been debunked? The only response you got for me is, go find another team? I chalk that up as a win for me.

Real talk. The only argument you apologists have is, they have been to 2 SBs with him as OC. You dudes are acting as if the Steelers couldn't have gotten to those SB without Arians. You're kidding yourself if you believe that. They wouldn't have gotten there without Ben. But Arians was damn tag-a-long. I seem to recall the Steelers winning a SB this decade where BA was not the OC. And if you wanna talk about his role as the WR coach in that SB run, then you are a bigger apologist than I originally thought.

Rockon

Slapstick
12-01-2011, 08:37 PM
The only argument you apologists have is...

Let's stop right there...

No one is apologizing for Arians because no one has to. Furthermore, nobody owes you an apology.

Why apologize for being OC on a team with 3 SB appearances, 2 SB wins and an 8-3 record this year, all during your tenure?

BradshawsHairdresser
12-01-2011, 09:25 PM
The only argument you apologists have is...

Let's stop right there...

No one is apologizing for Arians because no one has to. Furthermore, nobody owes you an apology.

Why apologize for being OC on a team with 3 SB appearances, 2 SB wins and an 8-3 record this year, all during your tenure?

BA was OC for 2 SB appearances, not 3, and 1 SB win, not two. If you are going to argue using facts, at least get those facts right.

So for the record, I think you owe Rockon an apology. :D

Slapstick
12-01-2011, 09:39 PM
The only argument you apologists have is...

Let's stop right there...

No one is apologizing for Arians because no one has to. Furthermore, nobody owes you an apology.

Why apologize for being OC on a team with 3 SB appearances, 2 SB wins and an 8-3 record this year, all during your tenure?

BA was OC for 2 SB appearances, not 3, and 1 SB win, not two. If you are going to argue using facts, at least get those facts right.

So for the record, I think you owe Rockon an apology. :D

Right after you apologize for thread-stalking me. :D

BradshawsHairdresser
12-01-2011, 09:40 PM
The only argument you apologists have is...

Let's stop right there...

No one is apologizing for Arians because no one has to. Furthermore, nobody owes you an apology.

Why apologize for being OC on a team with 3 SB appearances, 2 SB wins and an 8-3 record this year, all during your tenure?

BA was OC for 2 SB appearances, not 3, and 1 SB win, not two. If you are going to argue using facts, at least get those facts right.

So for the record, I think you owe Rockon an apology. :D


Right after you apologize for thread-stalking me. :D

Dang, someone's "a little sensitive"...as well as a little egotistical...I've posted on this thread a couple of times already. But if you want to think I just came here to stalk you, go for it. :lol:

sd steel
12-01-2011, 09:51 PM
We are 8-3, is there really an issue. Blame Arians I get it, but guess what you are just gonna blame a new coordinator for the same stuff next year. It just gets old reading the same posts by the same posters over and over about our horrible OC. The reality of it is if the players executed all the plays properly we would score on every play. There would never be a sack, and every pass would be completed and every run play would be blocked properly and every run would hit pay dirt. So why don't the players get any of the blame for not executing?

Come on Rockon, why aren't you whining about Wallace dropping the TD pass or the long ball that went through his hands? Great plays just not executed. How about crying about Mewelde fumbling a perfectly called RUTFM which was open and would have scored but he put the ball on the turf.

Throw the blame where it lies...with the guys who are supposed to execute. Plays are called by tendency with a program, and Ben approves all play calls and can audible at any time, and loves Arians. Why not blame Ben, he has the final say?

"Nah, we'd just rather bitch like little chicks after every game about how we are smarter than the OC." He would probably still beat you all in Madden too!:)

feltdizz
12-01-2011, 11:25 PM
My dude.. your missing the point.

The Steelers have BA and continue to roll with him... like it or not someone in the NFL thinks BA is good enough to run an offense.

Yeah, and he's doing a bang-up job there. Let me help you out with that....."no-bo-dy-but-the- Steelers-want-this-guy-running-their-offense." Hope that helps.

The HC argument is the only one you guys have... all the other one's have been debunked.


Debunked what?

You mean like the post somebody wrote regarding the Steelers scoring 20 pts. or more in 6 of their 8 wins. I posted a nice response to that regarding the amount of tds scored by the offense in those games. Funny how that was conveniently ignored.

There was an allusion to the Steelers being 10th overall in offensive ranking. Well, somebody else pointed out that that number refers to YPG, and not the all-important PPG stat, which the Steelers currently rank 19th. That's bottom half of the league. Not really a good look. Way to "trick up" the numbers, though.

And their are plenty other examples of similar "debunkments". The only thing being debunked here is the Steelers offense under Arians' watch.

So again.....debunked what?

Rockon

when did I point to the ppg as proof BA is good? In 2009 we had stats out the whazoo and everyone pointed to the losses...

Getting to SB's in 2 of the last 3 years and being retained by the Steelers is proof enough he doesn't suck.

No-Bo-Dy but the Steelers want BA well whoopdi freaking doo... deal with it or find a new team and OC to fall in love with.


First, I'll control my rooting interests. In fact the only thing you can control is whether or not you like it. And even once you figure that out, your options are really limited as to doing anything about it. So, you can stop wasting your breath.

Second, I'll say it again. The Steelers got to those SBs in spite of BA. They did not get there on the strength of a prolific offense. Far from it. The Steelers win because they have a top flight defense and a franchise QB. Not because BA is some sort of offensive genius.

Third, I never said you said anything. I asked you a simple question. What has been debunked? The only response you got for me is, go find another team? I chalk that up as a win for me.

Real talk. The only argument you apologists have is, they have been to 2 SBs with him as OC. You dudes are acting as if the Steelers couldn't have gotten to those SB without Arians. You're kidding yourself if you believe that. They wouldn't have gotten there without Ben. But Arians was damn tag-a-long. I seem to recall the Steelers winning a SB this decade where BA was not the OC. And if you wanna talk about his role as the WR coach in that SB run, then you are a bigger apologist than I originally thought.

Rockon

You're acting as though your definition of BA is reality. Its nothing more than fan frustration. In spite of, tag-a-long or whatever you want to call him doesn't change how long he has been with this team.

You sound bitter.

That first SB victory with Ben wasn't an offensive explosion and we have always relied and benefited from a great D.

rockonsteel
12-02-2011, 12:08 PM
My dude.. your missing the point.

The Steelers have BA and continue to roll with him... like it or not someone in the NFL thinks BA is good enough to run an offense.

Yeah, and he's doing a bang-up job there. Let me help you out with that....."no-bo-dy-but-the- Steelers-want-this-guy-running-their-offense." Hope that helps.

The HC argument is the only one you guys have... all the other one's have been debunked.


Debunked what?

You mean like the post somebody wrote regarding the Steelers scoring 20 pts. or more in 6 of their 8 wins. I posted a nice response to that regarding the amount of tds scored by the offense in those games. Funny how that was conveniently ignored.

There was an allusion to the Steelers being 10th overall in offensive ranking. Well, somebody else pointed out that that number refers to YPG, and not the all-important PPG stat, which the Steelers currently rank 19th. That's bottom half of the league. Not really a good look. Way to "trick up" the numbers, though.

And their are plenty other examples of similar "debunkments". The only thing being debunked here is the Steelers offense under Arians' watch.

So again.....debunked what?

Rockon

when did I point to the ppg as proof BA is good? In 2009 we had stats out the whazoo and everyone pointed to the losses...

Getting to SB's in 2 of the last 3 years and being retained by the Steelers is proof enough he doesn't suck.

No-Bo-Dy but the Steelers want BA well whoopdi freaking doo... deal with it or find a new team and OC to fall in love with.


First, I'll control my rooting interests. In fact the only thing you can control is whether or not you like it. And even once you figure that out, your options are really limited as to doing anything about it. So, you can stop wasting your breath.

Second, I'll say it again. The Steelers got to those SBs in spite of BA. They did not get there on the strength of a prolific offense. Far from it. The Steelers win because they have a top flight defense and a franchise QB. Not because BA is some sort of offensive genius.

Third, I never said you said anything. I asked you a simple question. What has been debunked? The only response you got for me is, go find another team? I chalk that up as a win for me.

Real talk. The only argument you apologists have is, they have been to 2 SBs with him as OC. You dudes are acting as if the Steelers couldn't have gotten to those SB without Arians. You're kidding yourself if you believe that. They wouldn't have gotten there without Ben. But Arians was damn tag-a-long. I seem to recall the Steelers winning a SB this decade where BA was not the OC. And if you wanna talk about his role as the WR coach in that SB run, then you are a bigger apologist than I originally thought.

Rockon

You're acting as though your definition of BA is reality. Its nothing more than fan frustration. In spite of, tag-a-long or whatever you want to call him doesn't change how long he has been with this team.

Yup. and the whole time he has been here, this offense has been defined by Ben's ability to "extend the play, and keep it alive", after the original play has broken down, not by Arians brilliant, genius gameplans and playcalling. Ben has been making BA look good for some time now, because no matter what if Ben completes a 50 yd. pass after the play breaks down, it goes down as a 50 yd. completion regardless.

You sound bitter.

Yeah, well having BA as OC will do that.

That first SB victory with Ben wasn't an offensive explosion and we have always relied and benefited from a great D.

Ben was way more instrumental to that first SB win than most give him credit for. He made the big pass to the one yd. line to set up the first td. Hines dropped an easy td pass. And he was one underthrown pass on a flag pattern to Ceddy Ced, from turning that game into a laugher.


Rockon

feltdizz
12-02-2011, 01:01 PM
You're acting as though your definition of BA is reality. Its nothing more than fan frustration. In spite of, tag-a-long or whatever you want to call him doesn't change how long he has been with this team.

Yup. and the whole time he has been here, this offense has been defined by Ben's ability to "extend the play, and keep it alive", after the original play has broken down, not by Arians brilliant, genius gameplans and playcalling. Ben has been making BA look good for some time now, because no matter what if Ben completes a 50 yd. pass after the play breaks down, it goes down as a 50 yd. completion regardless.

You sound bitter.

Yeah, well having BA as OC will do that.

That first SB victory with Ben wasn't an offensive explosion and we have always relied and benefited from a great D.

Ben was way more instrumental to that first SB win than most give him credit for. He made the big pass to the one yd. line to set up the first td. Hines dropped an easy td pass. And he was one underthrown pass on a flag pattern to Ceddy Ced, from turning that game into a laugher.


Not throwing an INT in the endzone would've helped but that was an Arians designed play. Come to think of it... :roll:

Why are you even pointing out how the plays actually unfolded? Clearly all breakdowns and poor executions once a play starts are part of the Arian play design.

Ben was responsible for getting us to the SB but he had a horrible game and trying to give Ben "instrumental" credit for the 1st SB victory is being an apologist of the highest degree.

Ben's ability to extend the play is a good AND bad thing... maybe if Ben actually threw quick passes instead of looking for the home run we would look like we did in the Tennessee game. Ben relies so much on sand lot it makes our O look awful half the time. For every awesome extended play Ben has there are 3 or 4 ugly plays that miss or stall a drive. Now that is what you get with Ben and in crunch time he delivers 99% of the time but when he doesn't that isn't a BA special it's just part of the good and bad you get with a QB like Ben.

I've complained a ton about the actual % of extended plays that work vs sacks, strip sacks, WTF INT's and while we have a ton of great memories of Ben running around creating history the plays that don't work when he does it shouldn't fall at BA's feet but they do.

Ben is responsible for distributing the ball to the open man and we all know he likes to go down field. No one is forcing Ben's hand but fans swear BA has some kind of PS3 controller on Ben.

sd steel
12-02-2011, 06:11 PM
You're acting as though your definition of BA is reality. Its nothing more than fan frustration. In spite of, tag-a-long or whatever you want to call him doesn't change how long he has been with this team.

Yup. and the whole time he has been here, this offense has been defined by Ben's ability to "extend the play, and keep it alive", after the original play has broken down, not by Arians brilliant, genius gameplans and playcalling. Ben has been making BA look good for some time now, because no matter what if Ben completes a 50 yd. pass after the play breaks down, it goes down as a 50 yd. completion regardless.

You sound bitter.

Yeah, well having BA as OC will do that.

That first SB victory with Ben wasn't an offensive explosion and we have always relied and benefited from a great D.

Ben was way more instrumental to that first SB win than most give him credit for. He made the big pass to the one yd. line to set up the first td. Hines dropped an easy td pass. And he was one underthrown pass on a flag pattern to Ceddy Ced, from turning that game into a laugher.


Not throwing an INT in the endzone would've helped but that was an Arians designed play. Come to think of it... :roll:

Why are you even pointing out how the plays actually unfolded? Clearly all breakdowns and poor executions once a play starts are part of the Arian play design.

Ben was responsible for getting us to the SB but he had a horrible game and trying to give Ben "instrumental" credit for the 1st SB victory is being an apologist of the highest degree.

Ben's ability to extend the play is a good AND bad thing... maybe if Ben actually threw quick passes instead of looking for the home run we would look like we did in the Tennessee game. Ben relies so much on sand lot it makes our O look awful half the time. For every awesome extended play Ben has there are 3 or 4 ugly plays that miss or stall a drive. Now that is what you get with Ben and in crunch time he delivers 99% of the time but when he doesn't that isn't a BA special it's just part of the good and bad you get with a QB like Ben.

I've complained a ton about the actual % of extended plays that work vs sacks, strip sacks, WTF INT's and while we have a ton of great memories of Ben running around creating history the plays that don't work when he does it shouldn't fall at BA's feet but they do.

Ben is responsible for distributing the ball to the open man and we all know he likes to go down field. No one is forcing Ben's hand but fans swear BA has some kind of PS3 controller on Ben.
:Agree

RuthlessBurgher
12-03-2011, 05:41 PM
Not throwing an INT in the endzone would've helped but that was an Arians designed play.

Ken Whisenhunt was our O.C. in SBXL against Seattle...Bruce Arians was our WR coach then.