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View Full Version : Is Dick Lebeau Done?



flippy
11-28-2011, 05:26 AM
We can't get any pressure on the QB.

We've gone from one of the best Ds to one of the worst overnight.

How can you face Tyler Palko and not pressure him? The biggest weakness on this team by far is that for several years now, we haven't been getting consistent pressure on the opposing team's QB.

Yet we stick with the same system and same game plans week in and week out.

Sure, Dick Lebeau has minimal on his defense. Simply no one out there that dominates play in and play out and creates constant disruption.

And without any superstar player on D any more, passive play calling won't cut it.

We're at a point where we need a coach who can manufacture pressure with his play calling to cover up for his player's lack of talent. And it seems like Dick has coasted on superior talent for his past success. And now that he has no stud pass rushers, he doesn't know what to do.

I'm at the point where I think Lebeau coud send 11 guys and 5 average Olinemen would easily block all 11 for 5+ seconds.

phillyesq
11-28-2011, 08:15 AM
Were we watching the same game? The Steelers held the Chiefs to 9 points. They had a decent drive to open the game, which is not unexpected following a bye week. The Steelers only had 1 sack, but they grabbed three picks and got pretty decent pressure.

Last night was an ugly win, but reading the board, you'd think the Steelers lost.

WindyCitySteel
11-28-2011, 08:22 AM
Woodley and Harrison, not LeBeau's schemes, bring pressure. When one or both is out, you have trouble getting pressure, though I continue to be pleased with Worilds.

That said, the defense held up their end last night. Three first half turnovers and we didn't capitalize.

Oviedo
11-28-2011, 08:56 AM
He's not done but he does seem to stuggle adjusting to the loss of key players like Troy. I've always said he has too much of what he wants to do dependent on Troy and when Troy is out we get very basic.

I think it would be a good time after this season for both of our coordinators to retire and bring in some fresh perspectives.

Eich
11-28-2011, 09:32 AM
If the offense had done their job last night and scored the minimum of 2 additional TD's that they absolutely should've had, then no one is talking anything negatively about the defense today. We easily should've won that game 27-9.

Defense did their job, even without Troy and Woodley.

Offense sunk up the joint.
-Pouncey leaving the game hurt
-Wallace's butter fingers hurt
-MeMo's fumble hurt
-Ben's pick hurt
-Line still unable to give Mendy holes hurt
-All the holding calls hurt

feltdizz
11-28-2011, 10:01 AM
Why the hell did we need to pressure a guy who threw 4 picks?

phillyesq
11-28-2011, 10:27 AM
Why the hell did we need to pressure a guy who threw 4 picks?

:Clap :Clap :Clap

steelfin
11-28-2011, 10:36 AM
Unbelievable....It's interesting how two people can watch the same thing but both see things completely different....

The defense is the only reason we won that game...It surely wasnt the offense.

flippy
11-28-2011, 10:56 AM
I've been noticing for years our inability to generate pressure on opposing team's QBs. We've made many a QB look like Tom Brady/Aaron Rodgers over the last few years.

Our D didn't win the game last night. Palko did. Unfortunately for KC he played horrible. And he just screwed up on his own, not due to our pressure.

And a couple of the INTs were just horrible throws to the Steelers defender.

It wasn't like we were making plays to force turnovers.

The D may have got a lot of TOs, but I don't remember them forcing any of them. Just being fortunate.

Eddie Spaghetti
11-28-2011, 11:02 AM
haven't generated pressure for years?

the numbers don't back up that statement at all.

dumb thread.

Oviedo
11-28-2011, 11:07 AM
haven't generated pressure for years?

the numbers don't back up that statement at all.

dumb thread.

:Agree The past couple of years we have put pressure on the QB, but this year there is definitely a problem. When is the last time we have seen Timmons sent on an inside blitz? He is constantly being dropped back into coverage to I assume help the secondary.

James Harrison looks like a shadow of his past self this year. Not having Woodley has hurt but I think we are seeing the end of Harrison's dominance. They should consider moving him inside to take over for Farrior next season and look for another dominant pass rusher in the draft.

WindyCitySteel
11-28-2011, 11:25 AM
haven't generated pressure for years?

the numbers don't back up that statement at all.

dumb thread.

:Agree The past couple of years we have put pressure on the QB, but this year there is definitely a problem. When is the last time we have seen Timmons sent on an inside blitz? He is constantly being dropped back into coverage to I assume help the secondary.

James Harrison looks like a shadow of his past self this year. Not having Woodley has hurt but I think we are seeing the end of Harrison's dominance. They should consider moving him inside to take over for Farrior next season and look for another dominant pass rusher in the draft.

Worilds is that man. Carter is there as well. Please, no more OLBs in the draft.

Chadman
11-28-2011, 11:31 AM
I'd say we are witnessing the transition of old to new on Defense. Plenty of Steelers D players are starting to 'get old'- they've been getting close for years, but it seems we are seeing it now.

Farrior, Smith, Hampton, Hoke, Keisel, Harrison, Polamalu & McFadden- all key players over the years, have been hampered by injury or a decline in playing level all season.

Worilds, Hood, McLendon, Heyward, Lewis, Allen & Gay have all stepped into bigger roles, earlier than their predecessors had. Not surprising- it's a lack of 'splash' plays from both groups that have this D not playing at the high level it has over the last 5 years.

Looks to me that Tomlin squeezed the orange dry on a few players & now has to shift to a 'new era' of Steelers quicker than usual. this will bring teething troubles, as we have seen.

That said, all the young guys have shown some ability- they just don't dominate yet.

Time & comfort in their role should fix that for a few of these guys.

Lonbull
11-28-2011, 01:06 PM
Flippy -

We lead the league in sacks last year.

In 2009 & 2008 we were 2nd in sacks.

This season we're 17th but I don't think there's anything wrong with LeBeau - injuries have been a major factor this season - than and our offense has given up a significant amount of turnovers.

I also think it's a bit of an optical illusion - because our Offensive Line has been bad for so long it seems like everyone else can get pressure but us.

LeBeau is fine - only three teams have allowed fewer points than LeBeau's group this season, and one of them plays in the NFC West - so I don't really count them.

L.B.

WindyCitySteel
11-28-2011, 01:28 PM
I don't want to speak for Flippy, but to me, a DC "generates pressure" via scheme. We get the lion's share of our pressure from Wood and Harrison beating their man one-on-one. We don't see a lot of unblocked sacks, A-gap blitzes, etc. Anyone remember a corner blitz this season before Gay's sack last night?

I cringe every time a talking head refers to the Steelers as "blitzburgh". That havoc was wreaked under the guidance of Dom Capers and hasn't been here since. We blitzed every play from different angles. It was a joy to watch, but it's been gone for a decade and a half.

Dee Dub
11-28-2011, 04:31 PM
I've been noticing for years our inability to generate pressure on opposing team's QBs. We've made many a QB look like Tom Brady/Aaron Rodgers over the last few years.

Our D didn't win the game last night. Palko did. Unfortunately for KC he played horrible. And he just screwed up on his own, not due to our pressure.

And a couple of the INTs were just horrible throws to the Steelers defender.

It wasn't like we were making plays to force turnovers.

The D may have got a lot of TOs, but I don't remember them forcing any of them. Just being fortunate.

Flip...can I make a suggestion? Stop. Just stop! Most Steelers fans are not going to see what you are seeing. LeBeau is a legend who cannot do any wrong. :wink:

It is well documented how I have said this over and over and over the past two seasons. LeBeau is forced to do this because of Ryan Clark's inability to cover. If you have a SS like Troy he is going to be used at or near the box or LOS often and thus you must drop your LB's into coverage more times than not because your FS cannot cover. Man on the corners with a deep cover one shell or a deep cover three. That is what the Steelers/LeBeau is forced with.

feltdizz
11-28-2011, 04:46 PM
4 INT's and a fumble recovery and DL is done? We beat the freaking Pats this year with press coverage.

calm down people.. step away from the ledge.

fordfixer
11-29-2011, 07:59 PM
Were we watching the same game? The Steelers held the Chiefs to 9 points. They had a decent drive to open the game, which is not unexpected following a bye week. The Steelers only had 1 sack, but they grabbed three picks and got pretty decent pressure.

Last night was an ugly win, but reading the board, you'd think the Steelers lost.
:Agree

Steelerphile
11-30-2011, 06:13 AM
8-3. and with the No. 2 ranked defense in the NFL. It's just totally unacceptable. None of the coaches knows anything. If only the Rooney would realize this. There are a lot of candidates for HC, DC and OC on this very board who would be able to the put the Steelers in a far better position than that.

7 UP
11-30-2011, 09:43 AM
We can't get any pressure on the QB.
Lebeau is old hes not as fast on the corner blitz as he used to be. Oh thats right he didnt play.

We've gone from one of the best Ds to one of the worst overnight.
We gave up 9 points on the road and created 4 turnovers. Worst defense ever!!!!!!

How can you face Tyler Palko and not pressure him? The biggest weakness on this team by far is that for several years now, we haven't been getting consistent pressure on the opposing team's QB.
Look at the injuries we have. Harrisons playing hurt, Woodley is out, and Polomalu is out. If just anybody can replace those guys and play at the same level, then why do those guys get paid so much??????

Yet we stick with the same system and same game plans week in and week out.
I didnt realize you sit in on team meetings. Ever occur to you that there are soo many different coverage variety's deployed by the Steelers, that when adjustments are made, you dont know what you are looking at to see if changes were made or not?

Sure, bad word Lebeau has minimal on his defense. Simply no one out there that dominates play in and play out and creates constant disruption.

And without any superstar player on D any more, passive play calling won't cut it.
I disagree, when you dont have players you have to be much more careful in your playcalling. If you blitz and dont get there, you get beat in coverage its just that simple.

We're at a point where we need a coach who can manufacture pressure with his play calling to cover up for his player's lack of talent. And it seems like bad word has coasted on superior talent for his past success. And now that he has no stud pass rushers, he doesn't know what to do.What you are asking for here is impossible. You are asking for a coach to come in and generate pressure without the players to do so. I give Lebeau all the credit in the world for doing what hes doing with the injuries the defense has had.

I'm at the point where I think Lebeau coud send 11 guys and 5 average Olinemen would easily block all 11 for 5+ seconds.You just made my whole argument for me with your last statment.

ikestops85
11-30-2011, 11:44 AM
I think DL is having one of his best year as a coach. Think about the transition this team is going through. Think about the missed playing time amongst the leaders of this defense. Aaron Smith is gone, Keisel missing significant time, Hampton missing significant time, Farrior with reduced time on the field, Harrison missing significant time and not at 100% when he is on the field, Woodley missing significant time, Troy missing time with his "concussion like symtoms", Lewis and Mundy getting significant time, Cortez Allen getting on the field.

All of that going on and we are still one of the best defenses in the league ... as usual. I think LeBeau is doing an amazing job this year.

steelz09
11-30-2011, 11:47 AM
I'll say it again... this defense is WAAYYY to relient on Polamalu being on the field.

ikestops85
11-30-2011, 12:04 PM
I'll say it again... this defense is WAAYYY to relient on Polamalu being on the field.

But that's like saying the Giants defense was way to reliant on LT playing. When you have talent like those guys you better be reliant on them. Can you imagine what the fans would say if we didn't use Troy? It's just silly to think we shouldn't rely on Troy with the talent he brings to the table.

feltdizz
11-30-2011, 02:02 PM
I'll say it again... this defense is WAAYYY to relient on Polamalu being on the field.

didn't we get 4 TO's and hold KC to 9 points AFTER Troy went out?

Dee Dub
11-30-2011, 02:03 PM
I'll say it again... this defense is WAAYYY to relient on Polamalu being on the field.

But that's like saying the Giants defense was way to reliant on LT playing. When you have talent like those guys you better be reliant on them. Can you imagine what the fans would say if we didn't use Troy? It's just silly to think we shouldn't rely on Troy with the talent he brings to the table.

That's a good point Ike...but LT was responsible for about a third of the field and Troy is more like about 2 thirds of the field. As I have said many times, if the Steelers had a center fielder type who could cover at FS it would greatly change the dynamics of what Lebeau could do or can't do. We would see a lot more pressure coming from the LB's than we do now.

SteelBucks
11-30-2011, 02:40 PM
We've gone from one of the best Ds to one of the worst overnight.


You've got to be kidding me. The Steelers are ranked #3 against the pass, #6 against the rush and #2 in total defense.

You're right, LeBeau is done. :HeadBanger :roll:

Dee Dub
11-30-2011, 02:48 PM
We've gone from one of the best Ds to one of the worst overnight.


You've got to be kidding me. The Steelers are ranked #3 against the pass, #6 against the rush and #2 in total defense.

You're right, LeBeau is done. :HeadBanger :roll:

I certainly dont think LeBeau is done...but what do numbers and rankings really mean? Weren't the San Diego Chargers ranked the number 1 defense in the NFL last year? And really were the the best defense? No...not even close.

SteelBucks
11-30-2011, 03:27 PM
We've gone from one of the best Ds to one of the worst overnight.


You've got to be kidding me. The Steelers are ranked #3 against the pass, #6 against the rush and #2 in total defense.

You're right, LeBeau is done. :HeadBanger :roll:

I certainly dont think LeBeau is done...but what do numbers and rankings really mean? Weren't the San Diego Chargers ranked the number 1 defense in the NFL last year? And really were the the best defense? No...not even close.

I agree that stats can be misleading but for a defense to be ranked #2 without sacks or turnovers is impressive. The defense has some holes but it's still one of the best in the league.

Dee Dub
11-30-2011, 03:33 PM
We've gone from one of the best Ds to one of the worst overnight.


You've got to be kidding me. The Steelers are ranked #3 against the pass, #6 against the rush and #2 in total defense.

You're right, LeBeau is done. :HeadBanger :roll:

I certainly dont think LeBeau is done...but what do numbers and rankings really mean? Weren't the San Diego Chargers ranked the number 1 defense in the NFL last year? And really were the the best defense? No...not even close.

I agree that stats can be misleading but for a defense to be ranked #2 without sacks or turnovers is impressive. The defense has some holes but it's still one of the best in the league.

Agreed!

phillyesq
11-30-2011, 04:00 PM
I agree that stats can be misleading but for a defense to be ranked #2 without sacks or turnovers is impressive. The defense has some holes but it's still one of the best in the league.

Agreed![/quote]

Perhaps more impressive when you consider that Harrison is still not 100%, Woodley has missed a number of games, and Polamalu missed most of the Chiefs game. Even acknowledging that Harrison may never be 100% again, that is still impressive.

papillon
11-30-2011, 04:12 PM
Well, the Steelers couldn't force a three and out every time against the lowly Chiefs, so someone has to be the fall guy. :stirpot

The defense is in a generational transition period and still ranked very high. The Steelers are getting younger and still playing very good defensive football. Lebeau is doing a great job with the defensive unit this year, IMO.

Pappy

RuthlessBurgher
11-30-2011, 05:17 PM
Just imagine the backlash against LeBeau if the Chiefs were actually able to score a touchdown! *gasp!*

flippy
11-30-2011, 06:50 PM
Our defense didn't prevent KC from scoring. Palko did.

RuthlessBurgher
11-30-2011, 06:53 PM
Our defense didn't prevent KC from scoring. Palko did.

Maybe, just maybe, our defense confused poor ol' Tyler Palko. :?

feltdizz
11-30-2011, 07:18 PM
Dropping 7 and confusing a bad QB into 3 picks is a good thing.

We put Palko under mental pressure and he crumbled.

Most green QB's perform better when you blitz and give him a one on one option. Drop coverage and most have a hard time making a good decision.

Palko didn't give us anything, we took it from him.

Dee Dub
11-30-2011, 07:39 PM
Palko didn't give us anything, we took it from him.

:shock:

Palko couldnt hit water if he fell out of a boat.

steelz09
11-30-2011, 07:42 PM
I'll say it again... this defense is WAAYYY to relient on Polamalu being on the field.

But that's like saying the Giants defense was way to reliant on LT playing. When you have talent like those guys you better be reliant on them. Can you imagine what the fans would say if we didn't use Troy? It's just silly to think we shouldn't rely on Troy with the talent he brings to the table.

That's a good point Ike...but LT was responsible for about a third of the field and Troy is more like about 2 thirds of the field. As I have said many times, if the Steelers had a center fielder type who could cover at FS it would greatly change the dynamics of what Lebeau could do or can't do. We would see a lot more pressure coming from the LB's than we do now.

Look at the Steelers record without Polamalu. Enough said. Yes, he's a HOF safety but still.

I bet if someone asked the question: "Which starting position were the Steeler missing with a record of <blank>." The majority of all fans of opposing teams would say the QB. Not a safety.

The defense is vanilla without Polamalu and with the exception of this year, has not been able to produce turnovers without Polamalu. How many regular season games and/or playoff games has Polamalu closed out due to HUGE plays?

It's not that Polamalu shouldn't be utilized... it just that the defense has historically collapsed when he's not on the field.

hawaiiansteel
12-04-2011, 02:48 AM
a lot of Steelers fans will only true appreciate D!ck LeBeau the day he is no longer our DC...

http://cache.heraldinteractive.com/blogs/sports/rap_sheet/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/dick-lebeau-gallery-ap.jpg

Discipline of Steel
12-04-2011, 10:02 AM
Top 5 Greatest Steelers of All-Time

1 Art Rooney
2 Jack Lambert
3 Chuck Noll
4 Richard LeBeau
5 Joe Greene

WindyCitySteel
12-04-2011, 10:47 AM
Top 5 Greatest Steelers of All-Time

1 Art Rooney
2 Jack Lambert
3 Chuck Noll
4 Richard LeBeau
5 Joe Greene

Art Rooney had one good run in 50 years. He didn't suddenly become a great owner, he just hired the right guy for once and they struck lightning. The team has been much more consistent since his passing in the late 80's.

SteelBucks
12-04-2011, 11:29 AM
Top 5 Greatest Steelers of All-Time

1 Art Rooney
2 Jack Lambert
3 Chuck Noll
4 Richard LeBeau
5 Joe Greene

Art Rooney had one good run in 50 years. He didn't suddenly become a great owner, he just hired the right guy for once and they struck lightning. The team has been much more consistent since his passing in the late 80's.

No Art, no Pittsburgh Steelers. He should be #1 on everybody's list.

WindyCitySteel
12-04-2011, 12:01 PM
Top 5 Greatest Steelers of All-Time

1 Art Rooney
2 Jack Lambert
3 Chuck Noll
4 Richard LeBeau
5 Joe Greene

Art Rooney had one good run in 50 years. He didn't suddenly become a great owner, he just hired the right guy for once and they struck lightning. The team has been much more consistent since his passing in the late 80's.

No Art, no Pittsburgh Steelers. He should be #1 on everybody's list.

There eventually would have been team in Pittsburgh. Art gets credit for founding the Steelers, but they were the league's laughingstock for most of his years as owner.

SteelBucks
12-04-2011, 01:03 PM
Top 5 Greatest Steelers of All-Time

1 Art Rooney
2 Jack Lambert
3 Chuck Noll
4 Richard LeBeau
5 Joe Greene

Art Rooney had one good run in 50 years. He didn't suddenly become a great owner, he just hired the right guy for once and they struck lightning. The team has been much more consistent since his passing in the late 80's.

No Art, no Pittsburgh Steelers. He should be #1 on everybody's list.

There eventually would have been team in Pittsburgh. Art gets credit for founding the Steelers, but they were the league's laughingstock for most of his years as owner.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

Discipline of Steel
12-04-2011, 01:46 PM
I think we can all agree that the Steelers management team is one of the best in sports and has been for a long long time. As a result, the Steelers have been competitive year in and year out for a long long time. Regardless of results during his formative years, the Chief set the standard that the Steelers still adhere to this day.