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hawaiiansteel
11-19-2011, 01:55 PM
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November 19th, 2011
By Mark Kaboly

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Taking a look back at the Steelers-Bengals game on my DVR.

Ben Roethlisberger is having a great year. So are Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown.

But none of them would be nearly as successful as they have been if it wasn’t for Bruce Arians.

The guy you love to hate is having one heck of a year.

Sure, the talents of Roethlisberger, Wallace and Brown sometimes makes Arians’ job look easy, but don’t kid yourself, Arians has been on point all season, especially with stuff that you don’t even realize.

The Steelers have been tremendous on opening drives all year, and that’s just not a coincidence.

Arians’ opening script has been near flawless.

Against the Bengals, the opening series resulted in an 8-play drive in which the Steelers marched right down the field against a very stingy defense and scored a touchdown.

The success can be traced back to confusing the defense, and Arians did that by mixing and matching personnel groupings.

Out of the eight plays, only twice did Arians have the same six skill players on the field at the same time.

Arians used a three-tight end set twice, a two tight end set three times, a three wide receiver set three times and even three receivers, a tight end and a running back in a five receiver look once.

The skinny in all this is that Arians does a fantastic job of confusing defenses during his scripted calls to start the game, and also uses that later in the game to predict how defenses will react to different personnel groupings.

Yeah, I know all offensive coordinators do something similar to what Arians does, but not many do it as well as him.

* Hines Ward played only nine snaps the entire game, one of which came in the second half.

You have to give Mike Tomlin all the credit in the world in having the guts to make the correct call to put Jerricho Cotchery in the lineup ahead of Ward.

Bottom line is that Cotchery is better than Ward and deserves to play ahead of him.

Tomlin’s demotion of Ward was handled with class as well. There was no talk of it beforehand, and no denying it afterwards. He let Ward start the game and quietly removed him as the game went on.

With Ward’s resume, that’s the least of what he deserves.

* Now, don’t you William Gay haters feel a little bad about yourself now?

OK, Gay is no Darrelle Revis, but he sure played like him against the Bengals.

Gay knocked away one pass, batted another that was intercepted by Lawrence Timmons and, of course, saved the game when he jumped Jerome Simpson’s slant route and intercepted the ball to give the Steelers the win.

Teams continue to ignore Ike Taylor on the other side and test Gay, and to his credit, he’s stepped up to the challenge every week … well, except for last week.

* Speaking of Gay’s interception, you have to give him a lot of credit for anticipating that route and making a play on the ball.

However, a lot of credit also has to go to linebacker Jason Worilds.

The linebacker quickly got to his correct depth on his drop and really altered Simpson’s route that, in turn, led to the interception.

* Sorry to say, but the hit Reggie Nelson laid on Heath Miller around the goalline was not a helmet-to-helmet hit.

It was close, but Nelson’s shoulder clearly contacted Miller’s shoulder.

Saying that, Nelson still should be fined because, even though there was no helmet-to-helmet contact, it was most definitely a hit to a defenseless receiver.

* Let me get this straight, you have your best cornerback who has shut down every receiver he faced this year pass off a guy like A.J. Green to a pair of safeties who can’t cover a lick?

That’s exactly what happened on Green’s touchdown catch, and I have no idea why there was any such call in Dick LeBeau’s game plan.

Still makes no sense a couple days later when Ike Taylor isn’t racing stride-for-stride with Green to the end zone.

* There is some talk about Cincinnati Domata Peko having a good chance of making the Pro Bowl this year.

I don’t know about that, but do yourself a favor and cue up your DVR to the 45-minute mark of the game when Ben Roethlisberger was intercepted by Leon Hall on the Miller bobble.

Just look in amazement on what Peko did to Steelers guard Chris Kemoeatu, mind you, one of the toughest linemen in the NFL.

I can’t ruin it for you. Just go back and look at the play.

* My goodness that was a pretty play by Roethlisberger to shake a pair of untouched blitzing defenders to throw the initial touchdown of the game to Cotchery.

It was a thing of beauty – unless your name is Marcus Gilbert.

The rookie right tackle totally blew his assignment leaving both Jonathan Fanene and Nate Clements with a free run at Roethlisberger.

Gilbert was supposed to slide to his right and pick up Fanene leaving Roethlisberger only Clement to deal with.

It was a mistake that went unnoticed because of the result. However, eventually something like that could cost the Steelers big-time.

* Roethlisberger has made his share of poor throws this year, especially missing the wide-open deep ball that he’s done more than once this season.

However, rarely has he made a bad decision with a throw.

Roethlisberger’s throw that was intended for Brown in between a Cover 2 defense was a flat-out bad decision.

It should’ve been intercepted by Nelson. Roethlisberger was fortunate.

* It may be just because we follow the Steelers on a daily basis, but Roethlisberger absolutely gets treated differently than any other quarterback in the league.

Roethlisberger complained to the referee (and rightfully so) in the third quarter when Peko put a shoulder into the back of Roethlisberger way after he was already sacked.

Nothing was called.

If that wasn’t bad enough, the ensuing drive for the Bengals was helped out when Timmons did the same exact thing Andre Caldwell in the red zone after he caught a pass.

The inconsistencies are what gets the players so riled up, and who can blame them?

* The wide receiver screen has become one of the Steelers’ best run plays, and Arians sure doesn’t hesitate to call it.

An extension of the run game, Wallace caught three screens for 23 yards and Ward caught one for 10 yards. Three of the four went for first downs.

Can’t complain about those numbers, can you?

* Forget the Ike Taylor watch for this week because Andy Dalton didn’t want anything to do with him.

Taylor didn’t allow a catch and was targeted only twice all game.

Here’s the updated list of who did what against Taylor this year:

Wes Welker, New England 4-23 yards
Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona 3-58 yards
Anquan Boldin, Baltimore 3-35 yards
Andre Johnson, Houston 3-23 yards
Nate Washington, Tennessee 2-11 yards
Rob Housler, Arizona 1-20 yards
Jason Hill, Jacksonville 1-18 yards, TD
Reggie Wayne, Indianapolis 1-11 yards
Deion Branch, New England 1-10 yards
Mike Williams, Seattle 1-9 yards
Damian Williams, Tennessee 1-8 yards
Mike Thomas, Jacksonville 1-3 yards
Torrey Smith, Baltimore 1-2
Pierre Garcon, Indianapolis 1-(-2) yards
24-229-1

Grading the Starters

QB – Ben Roethlisberger – B (Continued his MVP-like season)
RB – Rashard Mendenhall – A (Game-winning TD was impressive)
TE/FB – David Johnson – B (Cutting down on mistakes)
WR – Mike Wallace – B (Getting involved in other ways)
WR – Antonio Brown – A (Just think when he gets it)
TE – Heath Miller – C (When he messes up, he messes up big)
LT – Max Starks – C (Looked slow)
LG – Chris Kemoeatu – C (Inconsistency still plagues him)
C – Maurkice Pouncey – B (Did well against Peko)
RG – Ramon Foster – B (Steady as they come)
RT – Marcus Gilbert – C (Plenty of mistakes)
DE – Ziggy Hood – C (Still nothing)
NT – Casey Hampton – B (Good one play, bad another)
DE – Brett Keisel – B (Was quiet)
LB – James Harrison – B (Forced 2 huge penalties on Whitworth)
LB – Jason Worilds – B (Getting better)
LB – James Farrior – C (Had a rough return)
LB – Lawrence Timmons – B (Needs to make more plays)
CB – Ike Taylor – A (No catches allowed)
CB – William Gay – A (Player of the Game)
S – Troy Polamalu – B (Playing around line a lot more)
S – Ryan Clark – B (Can’t get beat like he did)

http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/201 ... s-bengals/ (http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/2011/11/16/after-further-review-steelers-vs-bengals/)

SteelCrazy
11-21-2011, 08:10 AM
Arians not retiring type now
Monday, November 21, 2011
By Ron Cook, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Offensive coordinator Bruce Arians spent the Steelers' off weekend at his Reynolds Plantation home in Greensboro, Ga., a spectacular golfing community on Lake Oconee, about halfway between Atlanta and Augusta. At this time a year ago, he couldn't wait to retire and move there full time. In fact, after the 2010 season, he told coach Mike Tomlin he was done after 36 years in coaching. Tomlin and quarterback Ben Roethlisberger quickly and quietly talked him out of quitting.

And now?

"We'll see how it goes the rest of the season, but it's looking like I'll try coaching again next year," Arians said Sunday. :cry: :cry: :cry: "These young guys have made it so much fun for me."

So have a 7-3 record and a share of first place in the AFC North Division.

Arians' offense has much to do with it. Roethlisberger is playing the best football of his career. The offensive line has stabilized after a terrible start; its five members will make their fifth consecutive start together Sunday night when the Steelers play at Kansas City. Young wide receivers Mike Wallace and Antonio Brown are turning into stars. Tight end Heath Miller remains -- in Arians' words -- "the quarterback's security blanket." Rashard Mendenhall and Ike Redman are solid backs even if their numbers don't blow anyone away.

This is what Arians had in his mind for the offense all along. After the Steelers lost Oct. 2 in Houston, 17-10, in a game when Roethlisberger was sacked five times, Arians predicted his guys would regroup and be formidable. "We still can be the offense that we expect to be," he insisted.

Sunday, Arians added, "I always knew it was there. It was just a matter of keeping the faith."

Since that loss in Houston, the Steelers have gone 5-1. Other than a poor second half in a 17-13 win against Jacksonville Oct. 16, the offense has been largely outstanding. Arians has done a great job mixing things up. He has called running plays out of three-wide receiver sets and passing plays out of three-tight end sets. He has thrown to kill the clock at the end of games rather than running the ball, so great is his faith in Roethlisberger.

"There's never a doubt when I call a play that it will be successful," Arians said. "It's just a matter of us executing against the defense."

It doesn't hurt having a franchise quarterback, one of the NFL's best. In the past six games, Roethlisberger has thrown for 13 touchdowns and just four interceptions. He threw for 300 yards three times.

"It's his team," Arians said of Roethlisberger. "He has such a grasp of what we're doing. And he has a great rapport with the young guys."

Wallace and Brown.

"Wow! They're so talented and they really want to be good," Arians said. "Everyone knows who Mike Wallace is. But he's no longer just a deep guy. He's expanded his game. He's catching short balls and doing a lot of damage ...

"Antonio is having a fabulous season."

The two have been so good that future Hall of Famer Hines Ward has lost his starting job. Actually, Ward has fallen to No. 4 among the wide receivers, also behind Jerricho Cotchery, "a great get for us" as a free agent, Arians said. "But I wouldn't write off Hines just yet. He's still going to make some big plays for us."

The line jelled when the Steelers brought back offensive tackle Max Starks as a free agent after the Houston game. Roethlisberger, sacked 14 times in the first four games, has been given better protection despite being sacked 17 times in the past six games.

"Max and Marcus Gilbert are giving us the best tackle play we've had since I've been here," Arians said.

All of it has re-energized Arians. Last season, Roethlisberger was suspended for the first four games. Injuries ravaged the offensive line. The Steelers had two new offensive coaches -- line coach Sean Kugler and wide receivers coach Scottie Reynolds. "It was a mental grind for me," Arians said.

Tomlin told Arians to re-think his retirement decision. Roethlisberger, who also owns a home in Reynolds Plantation and lives just around the corner, came to Georgia and told Arians he couldn't bail out on the team after it lost in Super Bowl XLV to the Green Bay Packers.

"Ben kept talking about the potential of this offense with the young guys," Arians said. "What he said to me was huge."

Arians is thrilled to be back even though much work is ahead in the final six regular-season games.

"We're running the ball OK, but it's time to run it better," he said. "Not necessarily more, but better. That's something we talked about all last week."

Going into Sunday, the Steelers ranked 17th in the NFL with 109.8 rushing yards per game.

Arians said he loves the team's chances of reaching a fourth Super Bowl in seven seasons even if it has to get there as a wild card. The Baltimore Ravens, after beating the Cincinnati Bengals Sunday, still control the AFC North because of their two wins against the Steelers.

"I think our team is better than it was when we won Super Bowl XL [as a wild card]," Arians said. "Our defense is just as good, and it's going to get better when guys get healthy. Offensively back then, we really only could run the ball. Ben was solid, but we had to use a lot of gimmick plays. We didn't have the depth at wide receiver that we do now.

"This team is capable of going on the road and beating you in a lot of different ways. If we have to be road warriors again, we can do it. I have no doubt about that"

To say this has been a satisfying start to the season for Arians would be an understatement. No longer is he the subject of vitriol on the talk shows. No longer is he -- in his words -- "the village idiot." Most of Steelers Nation seems pleased with what the offense is doing.

Of course, that's always subject to change. And quickly.

"Oh, I know that," Arians said, a chuckle in his voice. "I understand how that goes. But I've never backed away from it. I love having that bull's eye on my back."

Arians mentioned one of his favorite poems -- "If" by Rudyard Kipling. The way he interprets it, Kipling wrote about how stepping into the arena and trying is so much more rewarding than sitting back and just watching.

"I love being in the arena."

That's really the reason Arians is planning on coming back next season.

Competing in the NFL is intoxicating.

Golf, for him, just can't compare.



Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11325/11 ... z1eLDBHh8i (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11325/1191473-87-0.stm#ixzz1eLDBHh8i)

Mister Pittsburgh
11-21-2011, 08:57 AM
Steelers are ranked 19th in scoring offense, 9th in yards, 7th in passing yards. This tells me we move the ball well between the 20's but just as we have seen in Arians full reign at OC here in Pgh, our offense can't punch it in in the red zone and that is what matters most.

This article seems like a major fluff piece.

WindyCitySteel
11-21-2011, 09:16 AM
Run-run-sack isn't a good formula for the red zone. Some day Bruce will get that.

feltdizz
11-21-2011, 09:37 AM
Steelers are ranked 19th in scoring offense, 9th in yards, 7th in passing yards. This tells me we move the ball well between the 20's but just as we have seen in Arians full reign at OC here in Pgh, our offense can't punch it in in the red zone and that is what matters most.

This article seems like a major fluff piece.

LOL... it is a fluff piece, or maybe it's how the players actually feel about BA and fans can't fathom that many positives in one article with BA's name in it.

Mister Pittsburgh
11-21-2011, 10:02 AM
12.3 points per game against division leaders Houston & Baltimore. Whoo Hoo! Let's start raising funds for the Arians statue to be built outside Heinz Field at seasons end. We have one of the most talented groups of offensive skill players in the entire league & are in the bottom half in scoring.

BradshawsHairdresser
11-21-2011, 10:08 AM
"We'll see how it goes the rest of the season, but it's looking like I'll try coaching again next year," Arians said Sunday.
:HeadBanger :HeadBanger :HeadBanger :HeadBanger

Looks like we're stuck with this guy.


My guess is that as long as Ben is here, BA will be running the offense. I'm happy about Ben being here, but I'd still like to see a change at offensive coordinator.

Mister Pittsburgh
11-21-2011, 10:11 AM
This is about as cocky as it gets and probably why the offense is so slow to adjust - dude is way too stubborn and full of himself...

"There's never a doubt when I call a play that it will be successful," Arians said. "It's just a matter of us executing against the defense."

rockonsteel
11-21-2011, 10:14 AM
I'll admit he's been better this year, but I still think he doesn't get the most out of the talent at his disposal. He's been good enough that I don't scream at every call he makes anymore, but he still calls a horrible redzone offense. I still hate that he doesn't use a FB. Everytime I see John Kuhn make a contribution to that Packers machine, it pisses me off. And I still wish he would retire as soon as the season ends.

And, yes, that is absolutely a major fluff piece. I think the writer may have had to clean himself up afterwards.


Rockon

BURGH86STEEL
11-21-2011, 10:20 AM
This is about as cocky as it gets and probably why the offense is so slow to adjust - dude is way too stubborn and full of himself...

"There's never a doubt when I call a play that it will be successful," Arians said. "It's just a matter of us executing against the defense."

I believe all coaches call plays they believe will work. They will not call plays if they don't believe will work.

Mister Pittsburgh
11-21-2011, 10:40 AM
This is about as cocky as it gets and probably why the offense is so slow to adjust - dude is way too stubborn and full of himself...

"There's never a doubt when I call a play that it will be successful," Arians said. "It's just a matter of us executing against the defense."

I believe all coaches call plays they believe will work. They will not call plays if they don't believe will work.

There is a difference between believing a play will work and saying there never is a doubt and the only issue is execution.

BURGH86STEEL
11-21-2011, 11:03 AM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":1l0rc80a]This is about as cocky as it gets and probably why the offense is so slow to adjust - dude is way too stubborn and full of himself...

"There's never a doubt when I call a play that it will be successful," Arians said. "It's just a matter of us executing against the defense."

I believe all coaches call plays they believe will work. They will not call plays if they don't believe will work.

There is a difference between believing a play will work and saying there never is a doubt and the only issue is execution.[/quote:1l0rc80a]

A play's success boils down to execution by the players.

rockonsteel
11-21-2011, 11:17 AM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":1fe6atji]This is about as cocky as it gets and probably why the offense is so slow to adjust - dude is way too stubborn and full of himself...

"There's never a doubt when I call a play that it will be successful," Arians said. "It's just a matter of us executing against the defense."

I believe all coaches call plays they believe will work. They will not call plays if they don't believe will work.

There is a difference between believing a play will work and saying there never is a doubt and the only issue is execution.

A play's success boils down to execution by the players.[/quote:1fe6atji]


I submit that playcalling is every bit as important as execution to the success of an offense.

I will again cite the following example:

If it's 4th and 15, team down by 6 under a minute in the game at opponents' 25 yd. line. The OC calls a QB sneak, and it gains 2 yds., the ball goes to the other team, game over. But, the play called was executed to perfection. That play is designed to gain 1-2 yds when it is blocked perfectly. So, in that instance, it's the playcalling, not the execution that was responsible for the offense failing.

So, to make a blanket statement that "A play's success boils down to execution by the players", I can counter with a similar statement of, "an offense's success boils down to the playcallers ability to put them in position to succeed".



Rockon

Slapstick
11-21-2011, 12:41 PM
I submit that playcalling is every bit as important as execution to the success of an offense.

I will again cite the following example:

If it's 4th and 15, team down by 6 under a minute in the game at opponents' 25 yd. line. The OC calls a QB sneak, and it gains 2 yds., the ball goes to the other team, game over. But, the play called was executed to perfection. That play is designed to gain 1-2 yds when it is blocked perfectly. So, in that instance, it's the playcalling, not the execution that was responsible for the offense failing.

So, to make a blanket statement that "A play's success boils down to execution by the players", I can counter with a similar statement of, "an offense's success boils down to the playcallers ability to put them in position to succeed".



Rockon

Dude, that's a bogus analogy...

Even Arians wouldn't call that play with that down and distance...

rockonsteel
11-21-2011, 01:09 PM
I submit that playcalling is every bit as important as execution to the success of an offense.

I will again cite the following example:

If it's 4th and 15, team down by 6 under a minute in the game at opponents' 25 yd. line. The OC calls a QB sneak, and it gains 2 yds., the ball goes to the other team, game over. But, the play called was executed to perfection. That play is designed to gain 1-2 yds when it is blocked perfectly. So, in that instance, it's the playcalling, not the execution that was responsible for the offense failing.

So, to make a blanket statement that "A play's success boils down to execution by the players", I can counter with a similar statement of, "an offense's success boils down to the playcallers ability to put them in position to succeed".



Rockon

Dude, that's a bogus analogy...

Even Arians wouldn't call that play with that down and distance...


Just going to an extreme to make a point. To illustrate the correlation between "execution making a play successful", and "gameplanning and playcalling to making an offense successful".


And I'm not so sure Arians wouldn't call that play in that situation. You obviously don't have a good recollection of the playoff game against Jax a few years back. Not that much of a stretch.


Rockon

Slapstick
11-21-2011, 01:16 PM
And I'm not so sure Arians wouldn't call that play in that situation. You obviously don't have a good recollection of the playoff game against Jax a few years back. Not that much of a stretch.


Rockon

Yes, yes it is a huge stretch...

rockonsteel
11-21-2011, 01:36 PM
And I'm not so sure Arians wouldn't call that play in that situation. You obviously don't have a good recollection of the playoff game against Jax a few years back. Not that much of a stretch.


Rockon

Yes, yes it is a huge stretch...

It's called hyperbole. You're taking it way too literal my friend.

But since you did.....

Again, you obviously missed the playoff game against Jacksonville, when BA ran Ben on a naked bootleg on 3rd and 7 with an opportunity to close the game out with a first down. I guess it was execution that caused that play to fail. This after Ben carved their defense the entire second half of that game. I'll say it again, with BA as the OC, not that much a stretch at all.


Rockon

Slapstick
11-21-2011, 01:46 PM
It's called hyperbole. You're taking it way too literal my friend.

But since you did.....

Again, you obviously missed the playoff game against Jacksonville, when BA ran Ben on a naked bootleg on 3rd and 7 with an opportunity to close the game out with a first down. I guess it was execution that caused that play to fail. This after Ben carved their defense the entire second half of that game. I'll say it again, with BA as the OC, not that much a stretch at all.


Rockon

Wrong again...it is a huge stretch...Huge...

And, though at the time I wish I had missed that game, I didn't...I was there...

feltdizz
11-21-2011, 01:47 PM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":zdmct72j]This is about as cocky as it gets and probably why the offense is so slow to adjust - dude is way too stubborn and full of himself...

"There's never a doubt when I call a play that it will be successful," Arians said. "It's just a matter of us executing against the defense."

I believe all coaches call plays they believe will work. They will not call plays if they don't believe will work.

There is a difference between believing a play will work and saying there never is a doubt and the only issue is execution.

A play's success boils down to execution by the players.


I submit that playcalling is every bit as important as execution to the success of an offense.

I will again cite the following example:

If it's 4th and 15, team down by 6 under a minute in the game at opponents' 25 yd. line. The OC calls a QB sneak, and it gains 2 yds., the ball goes to the other team, game over. But, the play called was executed to perfection. That play is designed to gain 1-2 yds when it is blocked perfectly. So, in that instance, it's the playcalling, not the execution that was responsible for the offense failing.

So, to make a blanket statement that "A play's success boils down to execution by the players", I can counter with a similar statement of, "an offense's success boils down to the playcallers ability to put them in position to succeed".



Rockon[/quote:zdmct72j]

That has to be the dumbest analogy ever.

feltdizz
11-21-2011, 01:53 PM
And I'm not so sure Arians wouldn't call that play in that situation. You obviously don't have a good recollection of the playoff game against Jax a few years back. Not that much of a stretch.


Rockon

Yes, yes it is a huge stretch...

It's called hyperbole. You're taking it way too literal my friend.

But since you did.....

Again, you obviously missed the playoff game against Jacksonville, when BA ran Ben on a naked bootleg on 3rd and 7 with an opportunity to close the game out with a first down. I guess it was execution that caused that play to fail. This after Ben carved their defense the entire second half of that game. I'll say it again, with BA as the OC, not that much a stretch at all.


Rockon

It was execution that caused the play to fail. I'm pretty sure Starks or whoever was out their either went to far or Ben ran on the wrong side of him on that play.

I remember a few people saying if we executed it correctly it would have worked.

We also had 3 INT's in the first half of that game... was that execution?

The problem with being an OC is every play that doesn't work proves he is an idiot.

rockonsteel
11-21-2011, 02:12 PM
And I'm not so sure Arians wouldn't call that play in that situation. You obviously don't have a good recollection of the playoff game against Jax a few years back. Not that much of a stretch.


Rockon

Yes, yes it is a huge stretch...

It's called hyperbole. You're taking it way too literal my friend.

But since you did.....

Again, you obviously missed the playoff game against Jacksonville, when BA ran Ben on a naked bootleg on 3rd and 7 with an opportunity to close the game out with a first down. I guess it was execution that caused that play to fail. This after Ben carved their defense the entire second half of that game. I'll say it again, with BA as the OC, not that much a stretch at all.


Rockon

It was execution that caused the play to fail. I'm pretty sure Starks or whoever was out their either went to far or Ben ran on the wrong side of him on that play.

I remember a few people saying if we executed it correctly it would have worked.

We also had 3 INT's in the first half of that game... was that execution?

The problem with being an OC is every play that doesn't work proves he is an idiot.


Maybe to the typical idiot fan who doesn't know **** about the game. If you ever watched a game with me you would see that I express pleasure/displeasure with a play in spite of the result. I don't do the "if it works it's good, if it doesn't it's bad thing". Got way too much knowledge of the game for that.

Furthermore, the play in question from the Jacksonville game was one of the dumbest playcalls ever! PERIOD!! That's not hindsight. If you think execution is the reason that play failed, then you know less about the game than I gave you credit for.

The real problem with being an OC is, that if you're not very good at it, the whole world will see it. Therefore, when things go wrong, people will break out the guns and blast said OC. BA deserves all the shots he has taken in past years. He has been better this year. Not perfect but better.


Rockon

BURGH86STEEL
11-21-2011, 04:17 PM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":2tjkc8p2]This is about as cocky as it gets and probably why the offense is so slow to adjust - dude is way too stubborn and full of himself...

"There's never a doubt when I call a play that it will be successful," Arians said. "It's just a matter of us executing against the defense."

I believe all coaches call plays they believe will work. They will not call plays if they don't believe will work.

There is a difference between believing a play will work and saying there never is a doubt and the only issue is execution.

A play's success boils down to execution by the players.


I submit that playcalling is every bit as important as execution to the success of an offense.

I will again cite the following example:

If it's 4th and 15, team down by 6 under a minute in the game at opponents' 25 yd. line. The OC calls a QB sneak, and it gains 2 yds., the ball goes to the other team, game over. But, the play called was executed to perfection. That play is designed to gain 1-2 yds when it is blocked perfectly. So, in that instance, it's the playcalling, not the execution that was responsible for the offense failing.

So, to make a blanket statement that "A play's success boils down to execution by the players", I can counter with a similar statement of, "an offense's success boils down to the playcallers ability to put them in position to succeed".



Rockon[/quote:2tjkc8p2]
I understanding that play calling has it's place. Good/bad play calling is subjective. My opinion is that play calling is not as important as execution. Your analogy went way off the deep end.

My response was made with the assumption that people understood that coaches call most plays based on a given down and distance or other factors. Sometimes play calls change based on different factors. Some of those factors are location on the field, score of the game, the defense, ect.

BURGH86STEEL
11-21-2011, 04:24 PM
And I'm not so sure Arians wouldn't call that play in that situation. You obviously don't have a good recollection of the playoff game against Jax a few years back. Not that much of a stretch.


Rockon

Yes, yes it is a huge stretch...

It's called hyperbole. You're taking it way too literal my friend.

But since you did.....

Again, you obviously missed the playoff game against Jacksonville, when BA ran Ben on a naked bootleg on 3rd and 7 with an opportunity to close the game out with a first down. I guess it was execution that caused that play to fail. This after Ben carved their defense the entire second half of that game. I'll say it again, with BA as the OC, not that much a stretch at all.


Rockon

It was execution that caused the play to fail. I'm pretty sure Starks or whoever was out their either went to far or Ben ran on the wrong side of him on that play.

I remember a few people saying if we executed it correctly it would have worked.

We also had 3 INT's in the first half of that game... was that execution?

The problem with being an OC is every play that doesn't work proves he is an idiot.

Ben would had made the first down if Essex made his block.

flippy
11-21-2011, 04:41 PM
I'm calling BS on BA's good year.

He's pretty much the same as always. Uses lots of formations. Calls lots of plays that take ages to develop. And goes uber conservative with a lead.

Seriously, what's changed about BA?

About the only difference in his play calling that I've seen is the game he called against NE. And he allowed Ben to get rid of the ball quicker.

I think in general BA overthinks things.

Tries to get too many yards on plays making Ben take more hits than needed.

And he tries to use #2 and #3 TEs too often at the expense of keeping the best players on the field.

rockonsteel
11-21-2011, 05:00 PM
And I'm not so sure Arians wouldn't call that play in that situation. You obviously don't have a good recollection of the playoff game against Jax a few years back. Not that much of a stretch.


Rockon

Yes, yes it is a huge stretch...

It's called hyperbole. You're taking it way too literal my friend.

But since you did.....

Again, you obviously missed the playoff game against Jacksonville, when BA ran Ben on a naked bootleg on 3rd and 7 with an opportunity to close the game out with a first down. I guess it was execution that caused that play to fail. This after Ben carved their defense the entire second half of that game. I'll say it again, with BA as the OC, not that much a stretch at all.


Rockon

It was execution that caused the play to fail. I'm pretty sure Starks or whoever was out their either went to far or Ben ran on the wrong side of him on that play.

I remember a few people saying if we executed it correctly it would have worked.

We also had 3 INT's in the first half of that game... was that execution?

The problem with being an OC is every play that doesn't work proves he is an idiot.

Ben would had made the first down if Essex made his block.

Yeah, well I'm sure that play worked great in practice in the week preceding that game. But, in the game, there is actually an opposing defense which is trying to stop the offense from advancing the ball. So, that play under the circumstances was one of the most assinine playcalls I've ever seen. Big, slow, lumbering QB who was carving up the Jags all second half, and you have him running a naked boot like his name is Mike Vick or Tim Tebow or something.

That play put Ben, Essex and the whole offense in an impossible situation. That was not a high percentage play for success in that particular situation. I don't think it's fair at all to put that on Essex. A 3rd and 7 sweep play(naked boot/QB sweep) is a tough play for a top-notch RB to convert, let alone a slow lumbering QB like Ben.


Rockon

BURGH86STEEL
11-21-2011, 05:38 PM
Agree or disagreeing with the call is subjective. The play was there to be made if Essex executed the block. Ben would had gotten the first down and possibly more if the block was made. Ben's not a slow lumbering QB. Ben may not be Vick or Tebow but he can run.

The problem is that some people attempt to sum up BA based on a handful of bad or questionable play calls. What about good play calls? How about the fact that the offense thrives in certain situations? It's not all negative as some seem to suggest. The areas of offensive deficiency are the areas they need to continue to work on to get better as a unit(red zone). The team rarely fails because of one individual. Especially, when that individual is the OC.

IMO, this game boils down to how the players perform on the field.

BradshawsHairdresser
11-21-2011, 06:04 PM
IMO, this game boils down to how the players perform on the field.

But BA's job is to put the players in the best possible position to be successful. He ought to make their task easier, not more difficult.

The Steelers have struggled in the red zone this season. Do you honestly believe that play-calling has nothing to do with that? Do you honestly believe, as BA apparently believes, that he is always calling the perfect plays in those situations, but that the failure to come away with touchdowns is ALL on the players? Some will try to pin all the blame on BA; some will try to pin all the blame on the players; obviously, neither of those extremes is right. The truth lies somewhere inbetween. But if BA was doing such a great job as the article states he is, such a great job as BA thinks he is, then the Steelers most certainly would be putting up more points.

hawaiiansteel
11-21-2011, 08:37 PM
Steelers' screens test defenses' mettle

By Mark Kaboly, PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Monday, November 21, 2011

http://files.pittsburghlive.com/photos/2011-11-20/steelersbrown-a.jpg

Antonio Brown has helped make the wide-receiver screen an important part of the Steelers' offense this season.

In years past, it was a play that Steelers offensive coordinator Bruce Arians would call to ensure Hines Ward's streak of consecutive games with a reception remained intact.

But the wide receiver screen has quickly morphed from nothing more than a gimmick in Arians' playbook to a can't-live-without staple of his offense — ever since the emergence of receivers of Mike Wallace, Antonio Brown and Emmanuel Sanders.

"It is fun to get them the ball and let them do their thing," quarterback Ben Roethlisberger said.

Arians hasn't been hesitant in calling the play regardless of the opponent or the situation, mostly because of it's success.

Through 10 games, Arians has called 31 receiver screens, with Roethlisberger completing all but three of them for an 8.6 yard average per play. The rest of the plays Arians has called this year combined are averaging 5.8 yards.

"The players are very good at it," Arians said. "They are run-after-the-catch guys, and that's why they are here."

Arians' infatuation with the play is easily understandable. It's a high-percentage quick throw that gets the ball in the hands of a speedy play-making receiver in space, forcing a cornerback to try to make an open-field tackle.

It's a perfect recipe for success when you have dynamic receivers like the Steelers'.

"The good thing about it is that you get the ball out of your hand right now," Roethlisberger said. "You get the ball in the hands of a playmaker right away and usually before defenders can get to them, and you have a couple of blockers out in front."

The biggest beneficiary has been Wallace, mostly because of how teams have tried to defend his speed — by playing off-coverage.

Wallace is among the league leaders in yards per catch (17.5) and has six catches of 40 yards or longer, including touchdowns of 81 and 95 yards.

To combat cornerbacks giving large cushions because of Wallace's speed, Arians has called more screens for him than any other receiver (10).

"They don't want to give that big play to Mike Wallace over the top," Brown said. "They don't want to come up and press him, fearing he will go right past them."

Wallace is content with catching a screen and turning it to big yards. He caught a 26-yard screen against Baltimore in Week 1 and a 29-yarder two weeks later in Indianapolis.

"If people are going to back up, we are going to throw short passes," Wallace said. "We can do that all the time if guys continue to back up."

The Steelers had their most success against New England when they completed six screens, but it was the week before in Arizona that it helped win the game.

Trying to run out the clock late against the Cardinals, Arians called run plays on two occasions that were checked out of at the line of scrimmage by Roethlisberger.

The first one resulted in a 12-yard completion to Brown for a first down, and the second one was an 11-yard pass to Sanders for a game-clinching first down.

"You are just handing the ball to a receiver out there wide and let him run in space," Arians said. "They go down as passing statistics, but to us, they are really running plays. They are just extended running plays to me. They are long handoffs. A lot of it, I consider the running game."

However, there has been a downside. Two of Roethlisberger's nine interceptions have come while throwing a wide receiver screen, with both taking place near the red zone.

Tennessee's Cortland Finnegan intercepted Roethlisberger late in the first half last month, and Baltimore's Terrell Suggs anticipated a quick screen from Roethlisberger and picked off a pass intended for Wallace.

"It's cool," Wallace said. "We are going to get them more times than they will get us."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... z1eNkEjRzV (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_768349.html#ixzz1eNkEjRzV)

Mister Pittsburgh
11-21-2011, 08:53 PM
With all the talent we have on offense, we are 15th in redone TD conversion @ 50% on the nose, 2.46% worse than last year.

SteelTorch
11-21-2011, 09:08 PM
I'll say it - I think the only reason BA has been "better" this year is just that we have a better group of players. Aside from certain players on our O-line, we have an extremely talented group of individuals. More so than we've had in a long time. This extra talent has covered up for BA's ineptitude.

Like I've said over and over, BA does nothing to help this offense. He does not make the players better, does not adjust well, and does not show any creativity where it matters most. The best thing for this offense would be if he were to pack his bags and move to Arizona.

BURGH86STEEL
11-21-2011, 09:09 PM
IMO, this game boils down to how the players perform on the field.

But BA's job is to put the players in the best possible position to be successful. He ought to make their task easier, not more difficult.

The Steelers have struggled in the red zone this season. Do you honestly believe that play-calling has nothing to do with that? Do you honestly believe, as BA apparently believes, that he is always calling the perfect plays in those situations, but that the failure to come away with touchdowns is ALL on the players? Some will try to pin all the blame on BA; some will try to pin all the blame on the players; obviously, neither of those extremes is right. The truth lies somewhere inbetween. But if BA was doing such a great job as the article states he is, such a great job as BA thinks he is, then the Steelers most certainly would be putting up more points.

And who's to say that he isn't putting the players in the best position to be successful? We've witnessed plenty of plays that are designed to player's strengths. Do you suggest he's making player's task more difficult? I don't believe that to be the case. What coach would want to make tasks more difficult for his players?

At the time of the call, BA believes he calls the perfect play for the situation. You expect him to believe differently? I am certain all coaches feel they call the perfect play. I don't believe any of us would feel any differently if we were coaches. It's easy to suggest the play call was poor after the fact. We would probably feel differently if we had insight into why a certain play was called.

I am sure the play calling is a factor in the red zone struggles. I also believe execution is the larger issue in regard to red zone struggles. I believe the execution needs to be even better in the red zone where rush lanes and windows to throw into get tighter. IMO, most of the focus should fall onto the people that actually play the game.

The Chargers were 2nd in the league in ppg last season. This season they dropped down to 12 in ppg. I believe the Chargers have the same coaching staff. The biggest difference in that offense is Rivers is having an terrible season.

We can make the same comparison with Packers. They were 10th in the league in ppg last season. This season they are number one in ppg. I believe that jump coincides with the play of Rodgers.

SteelTorch
11-21-2011, 09:12 PM
We can make the same comparison with Packers. They were 10th in the league in ppg last season. This season they are number one in ppg. I believe that jump coincides with the play of Rodgers.
So what excuse do we have since our best players on offense have been healthy all/most of the season? None.

BURGH86STEEL
11-21-2011, 09:17 PM
We can make the same comparison with Packers. They were 10th in the league in ppg last season. This season they are number one in ppg. I believe that jump coincides with the play of Rodgers.
So what excuse do we have since our best players on offense have been healthy all/most of the season? None.
Are you certain?

Steelers had to adjust to loss of players on the Oline due to injuries. As always, they've had to deal with inconsistent play from Ben at times. The Steelers ppg should improve if Ben can manage to play with more consistency over the last 6 games.

Mister Pittsburgh
11-21-2011, 09:49 PM
Our most consistent offensive production has come against the titans, the pats, and the second half of the second Ravens game. All spread & quick passes to make our crap OL a non factor, getting the ball in our playmakers hands. You don't see GB & the Pats in their prime needing to establish the run, so why do we not open it up until the clock strikes zero? We can no longer get a 10 point lead & turtle up because Faneca & Hartings & Bettis have been replaced with a sloth moron in Kemo, a second year center that is having a worse year than his rookie campaign, & a RB that dances at the LOS & shys Dom contact. Bottom line! So get the most out of every damn drive using your best players & best schemes - Ben, the WR/TE, and a spread quick strike attack and not a spread attack when 1/3 of your passes are behind the LOS by the way. Just my two cents.

SteelTorch
11-21-2011, 10:22 PM
We can make the same comparison with Packers. They were 10th in the league in ppg last season. This season they are number one in ppg. I believe that jump coincides with the play of Rodgers.
So what excuse do we have since our best players on offense have been healthy all/most of the season? None.
Are you certain?

Steelers had to adjust to loss of players on the Oline due to injuries. As always, they've had to deal with inconsistent play from Ben at times. The Steelers ppg should improve if Ben can manage to play with more consistency over the last 6 games.
Ben's play has been fine. Not perfect, but fine for the most part. This sounds like just more excuse-making.

hawaiiansteel
11-21-2011, 10:49 PM
Things that make me go hmmm

MONDAY, NOVEMBER 21, 2011
posted by Dale Lolley


The Steelers have scored points on 60 percent of their opening possessions of the game. On all of their other possessions, they score 34 percent of the time.

Offensive coordinator Bruce Arians scripts the first 15 plays of the game and - seemingly - they work well.

It makes me wonder why the team struggles so much after they're done with the script.

Part of it, I'm sure, are adjustments made by the other team. Another part of the blame could also fall on quarterback Ben Roethlisberger's shoulders.

Roethlisberger calls audibles quite a bit and sometimes it just doesn't work.

Perhaps the best thing would be for the Steelers to run Arians' scripted plays and then go to a no-huddle, when Roethlisberger seems to be at his best.

http://www.observer-reporter.com/or/sidelines/

Pahn711
11-21-2011, 11:07 PM
Part of it, I'm sure, are adjustments made by the other team. Another part of the blame could also fall on quarterback Ben Roethlisberger's shoulders.

Roethlisberger calls audibles quite a bit and sometimes it just doesn't work.

Perhaps the best thing would be for the Steelers to run Arians' scripted plays and then go to a no-huddle, when Roethlisberger seems to be at his best.


Umm, the no-huddle is pretty much like Roethlisberger calling a string of audibles...am I wrong? C'mon Lolley :roll:

His line of thought follows that, if Roethlisber is making poor calls, Arians should have more scripted plays.

Mister Pittsburgh
11-22-2011, 12:05 AM
The no huddles audibles are basically a series of pass patterns/ assignments for wr/te where when Ben is under center it is more than that. Ben excels in the spread offense. He ran this type of offense at Miami of Ohio as well. The Steelers as a franchise have resisted fully opening it up though.
The franchise image was founded on power running, power defense, grass stains, spit & blood. They cling to the style of football that represented a city of hardcore steel workers & tough folks.
The league has evolved & their strengths are no longer power running & the rules have somewhat cut down the ability of a defense to intimidate the opposition. It's time they play to their strengths & forge a new identity. They have some of the fastest WR in the league right now. Hell they still play on a pasture!

BURGH86STEEL
11-22-2011, 01:18 AM
We can make the same comparison with Packers. They were 10th in the league in ppg last season. This season they are number one in ppg. I believe that jump coincides with the play of Rodgers.
So what excuse do we have since our best players on offense have been healthy all/most of the season? None.
Are you certain?

Steelers had to adjust to loss of players on the Oline due to injuries. As always, they've had to deal with inconsistent play from Ben at times. The Steelers ppg should improve if Ben can manage to play with more consistency over the last 6 games.
Ben's play has been fine. Not perfect, but fine for the most part. This sounds like just more excuse-making.
Ben's play has been fine? Guess you didn't watch the games. Like it or not, Ben is a big reason the offense struggled in the red zone. Ben is the main reason why they had success in the red zone.

It's not excuse making but issues the coaches had to deal with.

feltdizz
11-22-2011, 11:06 AM
We can make the same comparison with Packers. They were 10th in the league in ppg last season. This season they are number one in ppg. I believe that jump coincides with the play of Rodgers.
So what excuse do we have since our best players on offense have been healthy all/most of the season? None.

Are you sure about this? When has Ben been healthy? A healthy Sanders makes our 3 WR's crazy potent but we have rarely had that combo this year...

What about OL injuries?

feltdizz
11-22-2011, 11:09 AM
We can make the same comparison with Packers. They were 10th in the league in ppg last season. This season they are number one in ppg. I believe that jump coincides with the play of Rodgers.
So what excuse do we have since our best players on offense have been healthy all/most of the season? None.
Are you certain?

Steelers had to adjust to loss of players on the Oline due to injuries. As always, they've had to deal with inconsistent play from Ben at times. The Steelers ppg should improve if Ben can manage to play with more consistency over the last 6 games.
Ben's play has been fine. Not perfect, but fine for the most part. This sounds like just more excuse-making.
Ben's play has been fine? Guess you didn't watch the games. Like it or not, Ben is a big reason the offense struggled in the red zone. Ben is the main reason why they had success in the red zone.

It's not excuse making but issues the coaches had to deal with.

Ben's play has been decent/fine this year but in the red zone? Not so much...

it's hard for some fans to admit our QB isn't perfect.

It's damn near impossible to have a discussion with fans who blame Arians for every bad play and give Ben credit for every good play.

WindyCitySteel
11-22-2011, 11:19 AM
This is about as cocky as it gets and probably why the offense is so slow to adjust - dude is way too stubborn and full of himself...

"There's never a doubt when I call a play that it will be successful," Arians said. "It's just a matter of us executing against the defense."

Exactly. He runs into 9-man fronts and blames the six linemen for not executing against nine defenders.

Or he asks Jon Scott to block Terrell Suggs on a 7-step drop and blames execution when it fails.

He's a galloping turd.

WindyCitySteel
11-22-2011, 11:32 AM
And stop me if you've seen this before. 3rd and 1 or 2, Ben in shotgun, empty set. What does that tell the defense?

Don't worry about the run, don't worry about a back chipping the pass rusher, don't worry about a back leaking out into the flat. They're passing all the way.

That makes the defense's job easier and the offense's job harder.

WindyCitySteel
11-22-2011, 01:52 PM
Finally, our assistants have been raided for years. That's the price you pay for having a successful franchise who almost always wins. Capers, LeBeau, Gailey, Whiz, etc.

Rain Man has been on three Super Bowl teams and perennial playoff teams.

No interviews.

That's not a coincidence.

Slapstick
11-22-2011, 03:46 PM
You're right...

It probably has nothing to do with the fact that Arians is older than all but a handful of NFL head coaches...especially those hired within the last few years...

Chan Gailey is a few months older as is Bill Belichick (but Belichick was hired 11 seasons ago)...

Tom Coughlin, Norv Turner and Mike Shanahan are older...but, all are long time head coaches in the league...

Pete Carroll is a little older as well...

That's your reason more than anything else...

Slapstick
11-22-2011, 03:49 PM
The other Steelers website run by the jagoff who doesn't want links to his articles posted here had a link to this story:

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2011 ... coord.html (http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2011/11/could_steelers_offensive_coord.html)

Supposedly, Arians could be a candidate for the Ole Miss job...you think Wallace would give him a good recommendation?

feltdizz
11-22-2011, 04:01 PM
Finally, our assistants have been raided for years. That's the price you pay for having a successful franchise who almost always wins. Capers, LeBeau, Gailey, Whiz, etc.

Rain Man has been on three Super Bowl teams and perennial playoff teams.

No interviews.

That's not a coincidence.

BA is a 3 time SB coat tail rider :roll:

Pahn711
11-22-2011, 09:50 PM
The other Steelers website run by the jagoff who doesn't want links to his articles posted here had a link to this story:

http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2011 ... coord.html (http://www.al.com/sports/index.ssf/2011/11/could_steelers_offensive_coord.html)

Supposedly, Arians could be a candidate for the Ole Miss job...you think Wallace would give him a good recommendation?

He'll retire before he downgrades to college football.

Pahn711
11-22-2011, 10:00 PM
Quite an entertaining thread we got here. I seem to recall a topic on this board at the beginning of the season: it wasn't enough that Arians had a hand in three super bowl appearances, many people pointed out that they would be happy with nothing less than a top ten offense. Well guess what, they cracked the top ten, and Arians is still being called a "galloping turd."

Whatever dudes :HeadBanger

flippy
11-22-2011, 11:20 PM
There's a couple problems we're just not going to ever resolve.

BA is good enough to sometimes be brilliant. I'd guess he's a high IQ guy that adds a lot between games. He clearly does well on the script. Ben likes him.

But when you get into the flow of the game, that's when he starts struggling with his play calling.

And it's also hard to know what Ben changes. Ben has to be tough to work with to a degree because he's pushing the line every play on how long he can hold the ball to make a play downfield.

That fine line Ben struggles with is probably a b!tch for BA to deal with. Does he press it because Ben wants to press it.

Gotta go back to Ben's doing ok with him. But it could be worse. I remember Kordell was done when Chan left and I do kind of worry about losing BA and what impact it could have on Ben.

I'm on the fence on BA. He does some things well. Others are questionable. And it's hard to tell if it's Ben or BA to blame sometimes.

Mister Pittsburgh
11-22-2011, 11:38 PM
Quite an entertaining thread we got here. I seem to recall a topic on this board at the beginning of the season: it wasn't enough that Arians had a hand in three super bowl appearances, many people pointed out that they would be happy with nothing less than a top ten offense. Well guess what, they cracked the top ten, and Arians is still being called a "galloping turd."

Whatever dudes :HeadBanger
Steelers are in the bottom half of the league in scoring & redzone conversion. Tied with the Miami Dolphins.

WindyCitySteel
11-23-2011, 12:03 AM
Quite an entertaining thread we got here. I seem to recall a topic on this board at the beginning of the season: it wasn't enough that Arians had a hand in three super bowl appearances, many people pointed out that they would be happy with nothing less than a top ten offense. Well guess what, they cracked the top ten, and Arians is still being called a "galloping turd."

Whatever dudes :HeadBanger

How did his offense do against the terrible Arizona defense in the Super Bowl? One TD for 55 minutes, and then Ben goes no-huddle and bails him out at the end.

Against Green Bay, nothing for three quarters and then hurry up/panic mode gets us in the game.

The sooner this guy leaves, the better off the offense will be.

Starlifter
11-23-2011, 12:10 AM
well, I'd by lying to myself if I didn't admit I think he's having a pretty good year. I thought the steelers started off very slow and it was very frustrating to watch - but young money has really made a difference and opened things up. his script to open the game has been terrific all year. we need to address two things however. scoring TD's in the red zone and finding a better script when you get up by 10 that doesn't allow the other team to get off the mat.

there are times when it's still very predictable and I still believe if BA was considered top tier by the league he'd at least get interviews - but the offense is performing well, he's a big part of it and you have to share the credit.

BradshawsHairdresser
11-23-2011, 01:03 AM
There's a couple problems we're just not going to ever resolve.

BA is good enough to sometimes be brilliant. I'd guess he's a high IQ guy that adds a lot between games. He clearly does well on the script. Ben likes him.

But when you get into the flow of the game, that's when he starts struggling with his play calling.


$$$$
I think BA has difficulty making adjustments to counter the in-game adjustments made by the opposing D. He can't watch what's going on and figure out what to change.

Let BA script the first series of each half, and let Ben run the no-huddle the rest of the time. I think we'd be more successful scoring points than we currently are.

WindyCitySteel
11-23-2011, 08:42 AM
and finding a better script when you get up by 10 that doesn't allow the other team to get off the mat

He was OC of the Browns when they built a 24-7 lead on the arm of Kelly Holcomb against our weak secondary. They turtled, ran 28 times for 38 yards, and we got back in the game.

Tiger can't change his stripes.

Slapstick
11-23-2011, 09:52 AM
He was OC of the Browns when they built a 24-7 lead on the arm of Kelly Holcomb against our weak secondary. They turtled, ran 28 times for 38 yards...

...Dennis Northcutt dropped a huge 3rd down pass...


...and we got back in the game.

Starlifter
11-23-2011, 09:56 AM
...Dennis Northcutt dropped a huge 3rd down pass...


true but it had been so long since anything was thrown his way he had already gone cold. put another way - BA iced his receivers.

then they missed.

feltdizz
11-23-2011, 10:44 AM
...Dennis Northcutt dropped a huge 3rd down pass...


true but it had been so long since anything was thrown his way he had already gone cold. put another way - BA iced his receivers.

then they missed.

or maybe.. just maybe... the Browns choked like they always do. :stirpot

I don't buy all the excuses of us doing nothing until Ben gets free from the shackles of BA. Why would Ben fight for this guy or love him to death if he stifles his ability to make things happen?

I'm sorry guys but you need to face the facts. Ben is a great QB but part of the reason he is great is because he is stubborn. Do you guys really think Ben calls all the plays in the no huddle? OK, sure...

I'll keep saying it until BA is gone... any knock you have on BA is a knock on Ben because they are thick as thieves.

WindyCitySteel
11-23-2011, 10:48 AM
He was OC of the Browns when they built a 24-7 lead on the arm of Kelly Holcomb against our weak secondary. They turtled, ran 28 times for 38 yards...

...Dennis Northcutt dropped a huge 3rd down pass...


...and we got back in the game.

Never should have been that close. Ever. He got comfortable with a lead and continued to pound the ball into a brick wall.

WindyCitySteel
11-23-2011, 10:50 AM
Ben loves BA because he unshackled him from Whiz. Ben also wants to run more no-huddle, to which BA said last year "If we do that, I might as well stay home."

Yep, that's the idea, Rain Man.

feltdizz
11-23-2011, 10:50 AM
well, I'd by lying to myself if I didn't admit I think he's having a pretty good year. I thought the steelers started off very slow and it was very frustrating to watch - but young money has really made a difference and opened things up. his script to open the game has been terrific all year. we need to address two things however. scoring TD's in the red zone and finding a better script when you get up by 10 that doesn't allow the other team to get off the mat.

there are times when it's still very predictable and I still believe if BA was considered top tier by the league he'd at least get interviews - but the offense is performing well, he's a big part of it and you have to share the credit.

Not on this board :nono

Any good we do is all Ben... any bad is all BA.

The best script once we are up by 10 would be getting Jerome Bettis out of retirement. It amazes me sometimes with how creative we are at keeping teams in games once we are up by 10.

I knew we would find a way to keep Cinci in it and Heath did an amazing job this time around. We get real sloppy once we are up by double digits and part of me wonders if it's all about the ratings because we are great at it. Troy and Carter have AJ bracketed and neither play the ball.. just awesome.

Anyways, my knock on BA is his love for Mendenhall... dude sucks right now. I hope he returns to playoff form once we get there but right now I have zero faith in that guy.

steelblood
11-23-2011, 12:16 PM
Run-run-sack isn't a good formula for the red zone. Some day Bruce will get that.

Geez, I don't love our red zone play calling, but this is just simply not true.

Mister Pittsburgh
11-23-2011, 01:39 PM
I think we are the only team in the NFL that have the total, and I mean TOTAL, inability to run a normal screen pass to a RB. I think it has been at least 4 years since I have seen the Steelers run a screen that actually worked and didn't end up where Ben tries to throw it to the RB as he is being tackled by someone or throws it through 3 defenders to try and even get it to the RB.

WindyCitySteel
11-23-2011, 01:52 PM
I think we are the only team in the NFL that have the total, and I mean TOTAL, inability to run a normal screen pass to a RB. I think it has been at least 4 years since I have seen the Steelers run a screen that actually worked and didn't end up where Ben tries to throw it to the RB as he is being tackled by someone or throws it through 3 defenders to try and even get it to the RB.

I'm pretty sure he said at one point they don't practice them because they're not part of his offense. Kind of like the fullback.

feltdizz
11-23-2011, 02:04 PM
I think we are the only team in the NFL that have the total, and I mean TOTAL, inability to run a normal screen pass to a RB. I think it has been at least 4 years since I have seen the Steelers run a screen that actually worked and didn't end up where Ben tries to throw it to the RB as he is being tackled by someone or throws it through 3 defenders to try and even get it to the RB.

we've run screens.. well, we tried but our OL sucks at getting out in space. Faneca was a beast at it but since he left we have been horrible at it.

feltdizz
11-23-2011, 02:16 PM
There's a couple problems we're just not going to ever resolve.

BA is good enough to sometimes be brilliant. I'd guess he's a high IQ guy that adds a lot between games. He clearly does well on the script. Ben likes him.

But when you get into the flow of the game, that's when he starts struggling with his play calling.


$$$$
I think BA has difficulty making adjustments to counter the in-game adjustments made by the opposing D. He can't watch what's going on and figure out what to change.

Let BA script the first series of each half, and let Ben run the no-huddle the rest of the time. I think we'd be more successful scoring points than we currently are.


I wonder what the break down is for successful no huddle drives that end with a TD.

I know it seems like Ben is more successful in the no huddle but I think I read a stat that said it wasn't as successful as fans believe.

Pahn711
11-23-2011, 11:29 PM
Quite an entertaining thread we got here. I seem to recall a topic on this board at the beginning of the season: it wasn't enough that Arians had a hand in three super bowl appearances, many people pointed out that they would be happy with nothing less than a top ten offense. Well guess what, they cracked the top ten, and Arians is still being called a "galloping turd."

Whatever dudes :HeadBanger
Steelers are in the bottom half of the league in scoring & redzone conversion. Tied with the Miami Dolphins.

Red zone offense has been an issue with this team (and a lot of teams) for years. But as far as scoring goes, they are in there with a number of teams where a few points here or there and they'd be in the top ten. Not very telling imo.

My point was, there are good and bad things with every offense in this league. And it could be much worse. Some people are on the fence about Arians, they should be. Every fan thinks they could call plays and do it better. Doesn't mean they are right.

Pahn711
11-23-2011, 11:32 PM
I wonder what the break down is for successful no huddle drives that end with a TD.

I know it seems like Ben is more successful in the no huddle but I think I read a stat that said it wasn't as successful as fans believe.

I can recall three interceptions from Ben while running the no-huddle this year that he had no business throwing-two against the Ravens and one against Tennessee (and I'm sure theres more). He needs to be reined in every so often before he gets carried away. Whisenhut understood that, thats why Ben didn't like him.

hawaiiansteel
11-24-2011, 03:35 AM
Arians tells Steelers to focus on team goals

By Scott Brown, PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Thursday, November 24, 2011

http://files.pittsburghlive.com/photos/2011-11-23/1124AriansAP-b.jpg

Offensive coordinator Bruce Arians told the players Wednesday that they need to stay focused on team goals if they want to return to the Super Bowl.

The significance of Arians' message: It marked the first time this season he's addressed the subject in a group setting.

"Coach said, 'If you're a team that's not doing very good record-wise, then you're fighting for Pro Bowls. For teams that are Super Bowl contenders you really shouldn't care about Pro Bowls,' " quarterback Ben Roethlisberger said. "I think it was a good message for all of us, for some guys just to re-remember those things and for some young guys to think about it."

Mike Wallace leads the Steelers with 922 receiving yards and six touchdown catches.

Antonio Brown has been Roethlisberger's primary target in recent weeks, as teams have double-covered Wallace more frequently. Brown also has replaced Hines Ward as the starter opposite Wallace.

Ward hasn't complained about the demotion, saying that nobody is bigger than the team.

"He's still a great contributor to this team and helps out in a big way," Roethlisberger said of Ward, "but I think he knows, and we all know, that our ultimate goal is the Super Bowl.

>> Doug Legursky likely will be in at left guard and Chris Kemoeatu out when the Steelers visit Kansas City on Sunday night. Legursky said he "got a lot of time" with the starters Wednesday at practice despite Kemoeatu starting the past four games at left guard. Legursky started two games at left guard before dislocating his toe Oct. 16 against Jacksonville. Legursky suited up two weeks ago in Cincinnati, but he said the Steelers wanted to ease him back into action.

"There was still some pain there with my foot, and my injury and with bye week the next week, it is probably smarter just to go ahead and sit me and get an extra two weeks instead of forcing it early," Legursky said. "That was the thought process."

>> Roethlisberger was a limited participant in practice Wednesday, again throwing with a glove on his right hand and a splint protecting his broken right thumb. The splint, Roethlisberger said, affects his ability to grip the ball as well as the touch he puts on passes. He said the Steelers' training staff has been "tweaking" the splint this week to make it less of a hindrance.

"We've done a good job of getting to where we think we're OK," Roethlisberger said. "We're happy with it now."

>> Receiver Emmanuel Sanders was a full participant in practice Wednesday, saying "things are looking good" for Sunday. Sanders has missed the past two games because of a knee injury. Safety Troy Polamalu (ribs) was a full participant yesterday. Outside linebacker LaMarr Woodley and receiver Arnaz Battle were listed as limited in practice.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... z1ebOUOQ66 (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_768900.html#ixzz1ebOUOQ66)

NorthCoast
11-24-2011, 01:06 PM
The red zone offense should not be that much of a mystery. Bottom line is that Ben is not that great in red zone passing. He has hovered around 50% completion percentage his entire career. Compare that to Rodgers who is hovering around 65%.
You can blame BA playcalling if you want, but Ben is free to change plays at the line anytime he wishes. and you cant say it is lack of a run game, because GB doesnt have one either. Both Steelers and Packers average 26 rushes per game, but Steelers actually average about 10 more rush yds per game than the Pack.

hawaiiansteel
11-24-2011, 04:11 PM
Wednesday news and notes

NOVEMBER 23, 2011
posted by Dale Lolley


Roethlisberger said today that offensive coordinator Bruce Arians talked to the offensive unit about forgoing personal goals in order for the team to win.

That could have been aimed at Hines Ward - though Ward has handled his demotion well. It also could have been aimed at Mike Wallace - who has been getting frustrated regarding his lack of looks of late due to opponents doubling him.

In the last month, Antonio Brown has 26 receptions, Wallace 20 and Heath Miller 19.

http://www.observer-reporter.com/or/sidelines/