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Steelhere10
11-18-2011, 04:11 PM
To discuss legal hits.

msp26505
11-18-2011, 04:48 PM
I hope they asked why the Steelers have been penalized AND fined repeatedly for these hits while other teams' hits on the Steelers have been fined much less often and are almost NEVER penalized.

Ben. Hines. Heath...we can all think of examples.

The most infuriating part of this is that TWICE the other team has CHALLENGED what should have been called a penalty and automatic first down, and the Steelers have had catches reversed.

Goodell can shove it up his arse.

DukieBoy
11-18-2011, 05:09 PM
I hope they challenged why Ben is getting pounded on late and very late hits without penalty to the opponents.

Steelgal
11-18-2011, 05:27 PM
James Harrison was on Sirius radio this am. Didn't hear the whole interview, just an excerp. He talked about how he's all for player safety, but he doesn't feel the teams are being treated equally. I doubt he said anything we haven't all said on here. I hope Tomlin and Art meeting with Goodell with have an affect, although I doubt that it will.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
11-18-2011, 05:32 PM
Any official word on this meeting ... why it took place, etc.?

RuthlessBurgher
11-18-2011, 05:35 PM
Any official word on this meeting ... why it took place, etc.?

My guess would be when it was made public that Tomlin used the Clark hit as an example of a good, clean, hard hit in team meetings (and then Clark was fined $40K for it).

BradshawsHairdresser
11-18-2011, 07:17 PM
Hopefully in the meeting Mikey got to demonstrate a legal hit, and laid King Roger out.

hawaiiansteel
11-18-2011, 09:19 PM
Rooney, Tomlin meet with Goodell

Posted by Mike Florio on November 18, 2011

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/tomlingetty.jpg?w=250

In the wake of last week’s disclosure by Steelers safety Ryan Clark that the hit for which he was fined $40,000 previously had been shown to the team by coach Mike Tomlin as an example of the proper way to dislodge the ball, NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell met Thursday with Tomlin and Steelers owner Art Rooney, according to Jay Glazer of FOX.

Per Glazer, the meeting was aimed at allowing the Steelers and the league office to get on the same page regarding the issue of illegal hits.

It makes sense. Coaches have been largely overlooked when it comes to the frustration expressed by players when it comes to the flags thrown and fines imposed by the league office. Many players, when complaining publicly, are merely echoing things they hear in meeting rooms.

And so the league office needs to be sure that the teams — specifically, the coaches — understand the importance of teaching the right techniques to players. Given Clark’s comments regarding Tomlin’s characterization of a play that cost Clark $40,000, that’s apparently not happening in Pittsburgh.

It’s likely not happening elsewhere, either. Under current rules, the coaches don’t get fined. So why should they risk neutering their players?

The only way to ensure that proper techniques will be taught will be to hold coaches personally responsible and accountable for failing to teach proper techniques. Thursday’s meeting possibly represents the first step in that direction.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... h-goodell/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/18/rooney-tomlin-meet-with-goodell/)

Scarletfire1970
11-18-2011, 09:22 PM
I think the Clark hit was clearly helmet to helmet.

flippy
11-18-2011, 09:38 PM
Harrison said they hit the way Lebeau tells them to hit.

Why hasn't Lebeau been called in?

SanAntonioSteelerFan
11-18-2011, 09:59 PM
I think the Clark hit was clearly helmet to helmet.

I agree.
[youtube:1np61qnw]dZSIXCdBd6o[/youtube:1np61qnw]

But the thing is the ref said it was "Unnecesary roughness ... defenseless receiver".

I'm so ignorant ... I thought Rooney and Tomlin initiated the meeting to complain about the officiating ... from the article above, it looks like they were taken to the woodshed.

Funny it was the Steelers that got called in, not Ray Ray on Roger's favorite team.

Sugar
11-18-2011, 10:15 PM
I still say it was clean. You can see him drop his head to lead with his shoulder.

skyhawk
11-18-2011, 10:40 PM
Legal hit.

This is complete garbage. If any helmets hit it was the guys facemask MAYBE.

A non-issue 3 years ago.

Wasn't Heath Miller a defenseless receiver? That one was also legal in IMO, but where is the consistency?

winwithd
11-19-2011, 01:05 AM
I just watched replays of both hits in that game and Ray Lewis was head-hunting. It is pretty obvious he made no attempt to hit Hines in the body or dislodge the ball. Clark was clearly trying to dislodge the ball as he led with the shoulder into the receivers arms.

Chris Collinsworth had it right when he states that Lewis hit a defenseless receiver and on the other play says in another time Clark's hit would only be called a great play.

We still would have won that game, if not for Clark's lousy judgment in the last seconds and not getting back deep in coverage. No doubt there were bad calls both ways by the officials in that game. I thought the hold on Gay on the opening play was a bad call and it seemed like the officials decided they needed to make it up to the Ratturds by screwing the Steelers in critical situations with bad calls the rest of the game.

I am very confident that even if we play the Ratturds on their field in the playoffs we can beat them, because we nearly beat them even when they benefitted greatly by some bad calls.

Its frustrating that an officiating crew which is that poor is allowed to do such a big game. They should be given something like Jacksonville-Indianapolis when they have such a poor track record. The head official couldn't even get the call right on the Torrey Smith TD. He initially announced that it was a Baltimore first down and not a TD. The proper call on that play should have been offensive interference. But if Clark plays it right it should have been an INT.

Goodell needs to be replaced by someone who has a clue. I wish someone would say 'to heck with the fines' and stand up to him and publicly call him on the hypocrisy. Is there any way to put him on trial for incompetence and remove him from his post?

JDSteeler
11-19-2011, 03:38 AM
Just the mere fact that we are even talking about this, makes me want JUMP OFF THE
NEAREST BRIDGE!!!

WTF has the NFL become??????

Its a contact sport!!!!!

If the H to H contact is NOT intentional, then its a LEGAL hit!!!!

Some part of the helmet is always going to hit another player!!!

I'm just so sick of this $hit!!!

Geez, the LFL has more hitting, than the wussie NFL!!!!

Goodell is the worst thing that ever happened to football!!!

When can this guy retire, or get freaking fired, or DIE!!!!!

JD :HeadBanger :HeadBanger :HeadBanger

7 UP
11-19-2011, 10:02 AM
You know something. The players had a chance to stop all this nonsense. The players were locked out. Instead of them demanding an end to the ridiculous and unevenly distributed fines. They made their whole agenda about having less practices, less contact in practice, not playing 18 games, and of course money. All they had to do was demand #1 a legitimate appeal process, #2 a set in stone fine scale, and #3 a panel of former players to decided what is and is not a fined hit.

Ryan Clark has no one to blame but himself. He was in the negotiations and did nothing to improve what is a retarded system. So I dont feel for him having to pay a fine.

All these "safety penalties" are really hindering my enjoyment of watching football. The NFL is very cocky at this point to think viewership can never decline. Hardcore football fans will watch no matter what. But eventually the NFL will start to lose the casual fan.

feltdizz
11-19-2011, 11:13 AM
I don't blame the players at all for these fines and wussie whitsles.

Helmets touch on every play.

ikestops85
11-19-2011, 12:33 PM
You know something. The players had a chance to stop all this nonsense. The players were locked out. Instead of them demanding an end to the ridiculous and unevenly distributed fines. They made their whole agenda about having less practices, less contact in practice, not playing 18 games, and of course money. All they had to do was demand #1 a legitimate appeal process, #2 a set in stone fine scale, and #3 a panel of former players to decided what is and is not a fined hit.

Ryan Clark has no one to blame but himself. He was in the negotiations and did nothing to improve what is a retarded system. So I dont feel for him having to pay a fine.

All these "safety penalties" are really hindering my enjoyment of watching football. The NFL is very cocky at this point to think viewership can never decline. Hardcore football fans will watch no matter what. But eventually the NFL will start to lose the casual fan.

I'm not sure what you wanted Clark to do. He, and the Steelers, made their feelings known that they didn't like "Goodell is God" system. They were the only team to vote AGAINST the agreement. Clark can't help that the other 31 teams didn't think it was an issue. It's called the democratic process.

hawaiiansteel
11-19-2011, 01:41 PM
Steelers' Tomlin, Rooney meet with NFL commissioner Goodell on hits

Saturday, November 19, 2011
By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette


Steelers president Art Rooney II and coach Mike Tomlin met with commissioner Roger Goodell and other NFL executives at league offices in New York so that there would be a better understanding of what are and are not illegal hits.

The Thursday meeting, according to a league spokesman, was the idea of Rooney and Goodell. Although not stated, it likely was prompted by Tomlin's public support of a $40,000 fine Ryan Clark received for what the league determined was an illegal hit on Baltimore tight end Ed Dickson on Nov. 6 at Heinz Field.

"Mr. Rooney and [c]ommissioner Goodell thought it would be a good idea to meet with our football staff and [c]oach Tomlin to review on-field issues that have been the focus of discussion recently," NFL spokesman Greg Aiello wrote in an email.

Clark told the news media about the fine Nov. 9 and said that Tomlin had used a video of his tackle on Dickson to show his players the essence of a clean, tough tackle.

Tomlin, in a statement that day, called Clark's fine "excessive" and that "Ryan has my full support" in any appeal.

Also attending meeting in were Ray Anderson, NFL executive vice president of football operations, several others from his office and former Tennessee Titans coach Jeff Fisher, a consultant to the NFL's competition committee which recommended many of the newer rules on illegal hits.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11323/11 ... z1eAcr8mXj (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11323/1191199-66.stm#ixzz1eAcr8mXj)

7 UP
11-19-2011, 03:10 PM
You know something. The players had a chance to stop all this nonsense. The players were locked out. Instead of them demanding an end to the ridiculous and unevenly distributed fines. They made their whole agenda about having less practices, less contact in practice, not playing 18 games, and of course money. All they had to do was demand #1 a legitimate appeal process, #2 a set in stone fine scale, and #3 a panel of former players to decided what is and is not a fined hit.

Ryan Clark has no one to blame but himself. He was in the negotiations and did nothing to improve what is a retarded system. So I dont feel for him having to pay a fine.

All these "safety penalties" are really hindering my enjoyment of watching football. The NFL is very cocky at this point to think viewership can never decline. Hardcore football fans will watch no matter what. But eventually the NFL will start to lose the casual fan.

I'm not sure what you wanted Clark to do. He, and the Steelers, made their feelings known that they didn't like "Goodell is God" system. They were the only team to vote AGAINST the agreement. Clark can't help that the other 31 teams didn't think it was an issue. It's called the democratic process.


Ryan Clark was very vocal throughout the lockout. He had an opportunity, more-so than most NFL players, to help put an end to all this fined hits nonsense. I dont blame just Clark. I blame all of them. The fines and Goodells, judge jury and executioner status were seldom mentioned, and were never really a bargaining point. And because of that we are stuck with this nonsense for the length of the contract.

Sugar
11-19-2011, 04:05 PM
So... what was the result of this meeting? Was there an understanding reached? What was the real point of the discussion? Enquiring minds want to know! :lol:

Oviedo
11-20-2011, 10:14 AM
You know something. The players had a chance to stop all this nonsense. The players were locked out. Instead of them demanding an end to the ridiculous and unevenly distributed fines. They made their whole agenda about having less practices, less contact in practice, not playing 18 games, and of course money. All they had to do was demand #1 a legitimate appeal process, #2 a set in stone fine scale, and #3 a panel of former players to decided what is and is not a fined hit.

Ryan Clark has no one to blame but himself. He was in the negotiations and did nothing to improve what is a retarded system. So I dont feel for him having to pay a fine.

All these "safety penalties" are really hindering my enjoyment of watching football. The NFL is very cocky at this point to think viewership can never decline. Hardcore football fans will watch no matter what. But eventually the NFL will start to lose the casual fan.

:Agree They did not make an issue of this when they were negotiating so they are stuck with the system as it is.

RuthlessBurgher
11-20-2011, 07:45 PM
Legal hit.

This is complete garbage. If any helmets hit it was the guys facemask MAYBE.

A non-issue 3 years ago.

Wasn't Heath Miller a defenseless receiver? That one was also legal in IMO, but where is the consistency?

The Heath hit was the worse. His head snapped bag like a crash test dummy. I know that there was no flag on the play, which is insane that none of the officials on the field saw that (not that it made a huge difference in the game...it would have changed a 1st and goal from the 2 into a 1st and goal from the 1), but I still haven't heard anything about a fine for Reggie Nelson. That's bullcrap.

fordfixer
11-21-2011, 02:06 AM
Raiders' Jackson says he will reach out to league over officiating
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... line_stack (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8244d9fb/article/raiders-jackson-says-he-will-reach-out-to-league-over-officiating?module=HP11_headline_stack)

MINNEAPOLIS -- Oakland Raiders coach Hue Jackson said he has held his tongue long enough when it comes to NFL officiating.

Jackson ripped the officiating crew on Sunday after the Raiders beat the Minnesota Vikings 27-21 to improve to 6-4 on the season, saying he doesn't "even know what football is right now."

"I am going to reach out to the league myself, personally," Jackson said. "I normally don't complain about the officiating. I don't make any bones that way because I said I wouldn't. But today I just truly felt like it was a little unfair. I really do."

The Raiders were penalized 12 times for 117 yards. Four of those penalties were personal fouls for hits deemed illegal by referee Jerome Boger's crew.

"I know everyone says we're the most-penalized team in football and that's a fact, and I'm not running from that," Jackson said. "But there's no way, some things that happened today on that football field, I question. I just do, and I have to, and I'm going to defend my team. It's time that I do that."

The Raiders came into the game with the most penalties in the league, and that trend continued early in the game with three personal foul penalties on Minnesota's second drive. Tommy Kelly was flagged for a blow to quarterback Christian Ponder's head on a sack that would have forced a punt.

Aaron Curry then received 15 yards for what the officials called roughing a defenseless receiver on a completion to Kyle Rudolph when the linebacker collided with the tight end in traffic on a short pass and safety Tyvon Branch was whistled for a facemask on Percy Harvin.

"I don't even know what football is right now," Jackson said. "I don't know what hitting is, I don't know what tackling is, and I've been in this league a long time. I can't tell you what tackling or hitting or what's a personal foul or what's anything anymore. At the end of the day this team's 6-4 and that's what I'm happy about."

Jackson also expressed frustration at his inability to get Boger over to the sideline to explain some of those calls to him, wondering if it was because he is in his first year as a head coach in the NFL.

"Sometimes I get brushed aside," he said. "Sometimes I get talked to like I maybe don't know what I'm asking, and I just don't think that's fair. I asked several times for explanations and you just don't get them."

Jackson, however, said he was proud of his team for not getting frustrated.

"We're going to continue to play through it," he said. "This is no secret about what's happening to this football team. This is a good football team. This team is working extremely hard. This team has given me everything they've got. I just want it to be fair. That's all I ask. I want a fair playing field for these men because I think they deserve it."

7 UP
11-21-2011, 07:36 AM
Raiders' Jackson says he will reach out to league over officiating
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... line_stack (http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8244d9fb/article/raiders-jackson-says-he-will-reach-out-to-league-over-officiating?module=HP11_headline_stack)

MINNEAPOLIS -- Oakland Raiders coach Hue Jackson said he has held his tongue long enough when it comes to NFL officiating.

Jackson ripped the officiating crew on Sunday after the Raiders beat the Minnesota Vikings 27-21 to improve to 6-4 on the season, saying he doesn't "even know what football is right now."

"I am going to reach out to the league myself, personally," Jackson said. "I normally don't complain about the officiating. I don't make any bones that way because I said I wouldn't. But today I just truly felt like it was a little unfair. I really do."

The Raiders were penalized 12 times for 117 yards. Four of those penalties were personal fouls for hits deemed illegal by referee Jerome Boger's crew.

"I know everyone says we're the most-penalized team in football and that's a fact, and I'm not running from that," Jackson said. "But there's no way, some things that happened today on that football field, I question. I just do, and I have to, and I'm going to defend my team. It's time that I do that."

The Raiders came into the game with the most penalties in the league, and that trend continued early in the game with three personal foul penalties on Minnesota's second drive. Tommy Kelly was flagged for a blow to quarterback Christian Ponder's head on a sack that would have forced a punt.

Aaron Curry then received 15 yards for what the officials called roughing a defenseless receiver on a completion to Kyle Rudolph when the linebacker collided with the tight end in traffic on a short pass and safety Tyvon Branch was whistled for a facemask on Percy Harvin.

"I don't even know what football is right now," Jackson said. "I don't know what hitting is, I don't know what tackling is, and I've been in this league a long time. I can't tell you what tackling or hitting or what's a personal foul or what's anything anymore. At the end of the day this team's 6-4 and that's what I'm happy about."

Jackson also expressed frustration at his inability to get Boger over to the sideline to explain some of those calls to him, wondering if it was because he is in his first year as a head coach in the NFL.

"Sometimes I get brushed aside," he said. "Sometimes I get talked to like I maybe don't know what I'm asking, and I just don't think that's fair. I asked several times for explanations and you just don't get them."

Jackson, however, said he was proud of his team for not getting frustrated.

"We're going to continue to play through it," he said. "This is no secret about what's happening to this football team. This is a good football team. This team is working extremely hard. This team has given me everything they've got. I just want it to be fair. That's all I ask. I want a fair playing field for these men because I think they deserve it."


:Agree

Mister Pittsburgh
11-21-2011, 09:18 AM
Hopefully Tomlin took a video showing Ben getting drilled left & right with zero calls.

Keyplay1
11-21-2011, 11:55 AM
Disclaimer: I have been ranting on and blaming Goodell for everything connected with the NFL when it is possible he is not necessarily the culprit. For example: the site nfl.com sucks. It loads unwanted videos, the pages are overloaded screwing up the computers and the linking is sometimes senseless. I only can stand visiting that site once a week and it takes forever to finally get to download the Steeler Gamebook.

My criticism is that Goodell must be hiring a bunch of his relatives who know nothing about programming sites.

On the matter at hand here he probably does not even know who the freaking people are who are handing out these inconsistent, unfair and biased decisions. But since he is the commissioner my response to the following quote stands.


So... what was the result of this meeting? Was there an understanding reached? What was the real point of the discussion? Enquiring minds want to know! :lol:

Yeah, also which one kicked that freaking idiot's ass? Wait, scratch that, it sounds a bit vulgar. Let me rephrase it since I've been watching a lot of lousy English movies lately. Uhh! Blimey! Can you tell me which one of our chaps kicked that blundering, bloody blighters arse.

steelz09
11-21-2011, 12:26 PM
I also have to put significant blame on the head of the players union. I think DeMaurice Smith is a joke and Goodell has him in his back pocket.

He is the guy that is supposed to represent the players and he is complately hush about all this. I guarantee you Upshaw would have done something by now.

If Smith can't see that this is hurting the game then he is freakin' blind. There is no consistency, judgement calls, etc. The league is turning into the NBA where defense will be an afterthought.

A couple other areas that are just dumb:

1) The new kickoff rule is just stupid
2) Offensive pass interference is a major problem. If I was a WR coach, I would tell my players to push off if they need to. It almost NEVER gets called. Meanwhile, a DB can sneeze on a WR and it gets called....

It's just getting out of hand.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
11-21-2011, 03:49 PM
I think the Clark hit was clearly helmet to helmet.

While the two helmets did make contact, there is a difference between leading with the helmet - as Ray did on Hines, and leading with a shoulder and the two helmets making contact incidentally - as with the Clark hit.

One is reckless, one is inadvertent. One should have been a penalty, one is iffy on whether a flag should have been thrown. One should have drawn a steep fine, one should not have warranted a fine.......the problem is that the two hits both got the wrong results.

msp26505
11-21-2011, 10:46 PM
1) The new kickoff rule is just stupid

You know, I thought the same thing at first, but the farther we get into the season, I have come to these conclusions:

1. Obviously more kicks into (and out of) the end zone, mean more touchbacks, meaning fewer high-speed collisions on kickoffs, meaning fewer injuries. Mission accomplished by the league (and I am very much NOT a fan of the league office).

2. That said, there have still been a surprising number of returns from the endzone, meaning the best returners are willing (and apparently encouraged) to take chances to improve field position, resulting in a fair number of exciting returns.

3. It seemed that until the rule was changed, we were the ONLY team in the league who could never kick the ball into the endzone. Not a problem anymore. Suisham may have been able to kick into the endzone more often than Reed, but with the new rule, the opposing offense almost always has farther to go on average than they did in the past, which is HUGE considering the new pro-offense rules on the books.

I'm now a fan of the new kickoff rule.

msp26505
11-21-2011, 10:48 PM
I think the Clark hit was clearly helmet to helmet.

While the two helmets did make contact, there is a difference between leading with the helmet - as Ray did on Hines, and leading with a shoulder and the two helmets making contact incidentally - as with the Clark hit.

One is reckless, one is inadvertent. One should have been a penalty, one is iffy on whether a flag should have been thrown. One should have drawn a steep fine, one should not have warranted a fine.......the problem is that the two hits both got the wrong results.

:Agree

Quoted for truth.

Keyplay1
11-22-2011, 08:06 AM
This issue has been around a long time. Long before Goodell, long before Anderson, the new guy there. Here are some excerpts from articles on this going back only to the mid-nineties and I don't doubt the same type thing was going on many many years before.

From the Los Angeles Times November 10, 2002:

"Gene Washington, the league's disciplinarian, suspended Harrison for one game for the helmet-to-helmet hit that didn't draw a flag. In assessing the penalty, which cost Harrison $111,764 in salary, Washington said Harrison had repeatedly violated rules crafted by the NFL competition committee in 1995 to stop players from hitting opponents who are in a defenseless posture.

"You can't hit receivers who are trying to catch the ball in anything but a defenseless position," Harrison argued this week after practicing for today's confrontations with the St. Louis Rams' receiving tandem of Isaac Bruce and Torry Holt. "If a guy has his arms extended and his eyes on the ball, he's defenseless."

Washington also suspended Denver defensive back Kenoy Kennedy for one game after his devastating hit left Miami receiver Chris Chambers with a concussion.

Among the 19 fines Washington has levied for improper hits this season were a $75,000 bill to Dallas safety Darren Woodson, whose crushing hit on Seattle's Darrell Jackson caused the second-year receiver to suffer seizures and require an overnight hospital stay, and a $50,000 assessment to Philadelphia safety Brian Dawkins, who delivered a season-ending hit to New York Giant receiver Ike Hilliard.

"[The fines] are deterrents," Washington said. "We have very few repeat offenders, with the exceptions of Rodney and Kennedy. The point is, we are charged to make the game as safe as it can be while recognizing it's a dangerous game.

Gene Washington retired in 2009. He was a WR with the 49ers. Lots of teams, including the Steelers had run ins with him I think.

From Gerry Dulac in the PG Dec 05, 2010:

A three-year football letterman at Stanford who graduated from Harvard Law School as a specialist in labor law litigation, Anderson joined the NFL in 2006 after four years as executive vice president and chief administrative officer of the Atlanta Falcons.

His role as administrator of officiating, on-field discipline and rules and regulations compliance is not so much a rise to prominence but rather a job that has placed him at the forefront of what has become a controversial and contentious process.

For example, there appears to be a general assumption that NFL commissioner Roger Goodell is serving as both judge and jury in cases involving illegal hits. But Goodell is not responsible for assessing fines nor is he involved in the appeals process.

Anderson and assistant director of operations Merton Hanks, a former player, review the film and determine the fines for illegal hits. If the player wants to appeal the fine -- as Harrison did when he had two fines totaling $95,000 rejected on appeal last week -- his case is heard by Art Shell, a former Hall of Fame player and NFL head coach, and Ted Cottrell, a former NFL defensive assistant.

Shell and Cottrell are appointed and paid jointly by the league and the NFL Players Association. The NFL uses all on-field fine money for charity.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10339/11 ... z1eQo2xF87 (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10339/1108122-66.stm#ixzz1eQo2xF87)

[color=#40FF40]Ray Anderson had an extensive fb background but was not an NFL player. His assistant Hanks I think played for the 49ers as did the long time previous director Gene Washington.

Doesn't this seem like a whole lot of responsibility and/or power to be in the hands of so few people? Especially something as subjective in judgement as these rulings are. Also if you read the article it makes it clear that the commissioner is not involved in this process.
[Nonetheless, since the Big Ben incident, I blame him for anything and everything possible]

I suspected that this was not really a new issue, and thought I had heard of eruptions of it in the past. Now I am sure. As a matter of fact I think it said the rule as it is now was in effect in the mid 90's and has not been changed. So what it amounts to is the fairness in enforcing the rule. On this I'm in agreement with most of the posters that it has not been the case regarding the Steelers. And of course this is a no-no.

hawaiiansteel
11-22-2011, 07:11 PM
Tomlin: Discussions with Goodell 'productive'

By Mark Kaboly, PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Tuesday, November 22, 2011


Talking for the first time since meeting with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell last week at league headquarters, Steelers coach Mike Tomlin called the discussions "very productive" at his weekly news conference today.

Tomlin and team president Art Rooney II spent Thursday in New York meeting with Goodell about recent statements and actions regarding player safety, including fines being levied on the Steelers in which they feel fall within the rules.

"We exchanged some ideas and I think the meeting was born out of a conversation with Art and the commissioner," Tomlin said. "They thought it would be productive for all of us to sit down and talk. It (was) good bye-week stuff."

Tomlin would not go into specifics of what the conversation consisted of, but Ryan Clark`s $40,000 fine for hitting Baltimore`s Ed Dickson likely was the topic of conversation.

"I will leave the conversation with those guys between them and myself," Tomlin said. "I think that is appropriate. I will say this, I appreciate the opportunity to visit with those men and get their perspective on some things and be able to give mine."

In other news, Tomlin said the safety Troy Polamalu is dealing with sore ribs, but fully expects him to play Sunday night against Kansas City as well as quarterback Ben Roethlisberger (thumb). ... Linebacker LaMarr Woodley (hamstring), receivers Arnaz Battle (hamstring) and Emmanuel Sanders (knee) are day-to-day and have yet to be ruled out for Sunday`s game.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... z1eTVOE500 (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_768586.html#ixzz1eTVOE500)

fordfixer
11-23-2011, 01:57 AM
The Steel Mill
News and updates about the Pittsburgh Steelers

http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/201 ... iolations/ (http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/2011/11/22/step-by-step-review-process-for-on-field-rules-violations/)

STEP BY STEP: Review Process for On-Field Rules Violations
November 22nd, 2011

The Steelers handed out a NFL-distributed 19-page pamphlet to the media on Tuesday entitled: STEP BY STEP: Review Process for On-Field Rules Violations.

The pamphlet’s distribution ironically came mere days after Mike Tomlin and Art Rooney II met with NFL commissioner Roger Goodell concerning recent violations and accompanying fines handed down to the Steelers.

Here’s a page-by-page look at the handout that’s full of big photos and large type:

Page 1: Cover Page with title

Page 2: The process for a play to be reviewed for disciplinary action starts with the NFL Officiating Department reviewing every play of every game.
*Photo of the NFL Officiating Command Center in New York.

Page 3: Any play that needs to be reviewed for possible discipline – whether penalized or not – is referred by the Officiating to the NFL Football Operations Department.
* Photo of a penalty flag on the field of play.

Page 4: Executive Vice President of Football Operations Ray Anderson, a three-year football letterman at Stanford University (1973-75), and Vice President of Football Operations Merton Hanks, a nine-year veteran (1991-1999), make the initial decision to discipline a player for an on-field violation. Discipline typically consists of a fine.
* Photo of Merton Hanks while playing for the 49ers.

Page 5: Fine amounts are not random
As per the Collective Bargaining Agreement between the NFL and the NFLPA, the fine schedule is provided to the NFLPA prior to training camp for its review.
* Photo of Roger Goodell and DeMaurice Smith shaking hands.

Page 6: The 2011 schedule of fines, which was accepted by the NFLPA, serves as the basis for the discipline. This schedule is provided to player prior to each season on the Player Policies Manual.
* Photos of the logos of both the NFL and NFLPA.

Page 7: FINE SCHEDULE
1st offense 2nd offense
Striking/kicking/kneeing $7,500 $15,000
Horse collar tackle $15,000 $30,000
Face Mask $7,500 $15,000
Leg Whip $15,000 $30,000
Late Hit $7,500 $15,000
Spearing $20,000 $40,000
Impermissible use of helmet $20,000 $40,000
Hit on defenseless player $20,000 $40,000
Blindside block $20,000 $40,000
Roughing the Passer $15,000 $30,000
Low Block $7,500 $15,000
Chop Block $7,500 $15,000

Page 8: FINE SCHEDULE
1st offense 2nd offense
Fighting $25,000 $50,000
Entering fight (active) $5,000 $10,000
Entering fight (no active) $2,500 $7,500

Page 9: FINE SCHEDULE
1st offense 2nd offense
Excessive profanity $10,000 $20,000
Taunting $7,500 $10,000
Football into stands $5,000 $10,000

Page 10: The fine amounts listed are minimums. Other forms of discipline, including higher fine amounts and suspension, may be imposed based upon the play in question.
* Photo of Seattle’s football stadium

Page 11: A player’s history is a factor in the level of discipline imposed. Players who were fined in 2009 or 2010, and whose fines were either partially or fully upheld, are considered repeat offenders and subject to more severe discipline.
* Photo of NFL logo.

Page 12: Discipline in each case is evaluated on its own facts and circumstances. This includes determining whether the infraction occurred during the normal course of a game or outside the normal course of a game (such as flagrant, unnecessary, avoidable or gratuitous violations).
* Photo of a pile of footballs.

Page 13: Once a decision to discipline has been reached, players are notified in writing via email, usually on Tuesday following a Sunday game.
* Photo of NFL logo.

Page 14: That correspondence includes the following information:
? The decision on what the discipline is
? The specific rule violation that occurred to trigger the discipline
? Instructions on how to appeal
? Instructions on how to view video of the play in question

Page 15: Players have three days from the time they are notified of the discipline to appeal. A hearing is then conducted within 10 days of receiving the notice of appeal.

Page 16: Appeals for on-field rules violations are heard in accordance with a 2010 agreements between the NFL and NFLPA. The jointly appointed and compensated appeals are officers are Pro Football Hall of Famer Art Shell and former player and coach Ted Cottrell.
* Photo of Art Shell while coaching the Raiders.

Page 17: Only after appeals are decided upon by Art Shell or Ted Cottrell is money withheld from a player’s paycheck. As long as players file a timely appeal notice, they will no forgeit any money in advance of the appeal ruling.
* Photo of Ted Cottrell while coaching the Chargers.

Page 18: Fine money from on-field player fines is donated through NFL Charities to programs for retired players via the NFL Player Care Foundation and the NFLPA’s Players Assistance Trust, as well as to support medial research through the Brian Piccolo Memorial Fund and the Lombardi Comprehensive Cancer Care Center. This on-field money has netted an average of $3 million per year over the last four years for the distribution to those charitable organizations.
* Photo of Cam Newton instructing kids how to play football.

Page 19: Full page NFL logo
– Mark Kaboly
Filed under: Uncategorized Comments (2)
2 Responses to “STEP BY STEP: Review Process for On-Field Rules Violations”

Jopa-n
November 22nd, 2011 - 10:53 pm

“other fine amounts can be imposed”

“discipline in each case is (evaluated) on it’s own facts and circumstances.”

If I was a union rep, and my client came to me and asked me why he was fined a certain amount outside or above others of like nature in circumstance, I would tell him the above sentences from the disciplinary part of the contract basicly gives the management the right to enhance the fines as they see fit- over and above the minimum from player to player.

‘Evaluation’ is such a broad and liberal term that managements love it. “We did not feel, in our evaluation that this person was guilty- over and above the minimum.”

“In our evaluation we found that the player went beyond the minimum fine level due to A, B, C etc.”

You can try to argue but its not your evaluation and the door is open to fine within a very broad spectrum from player to player. Bad for the players/employees. Great for management.
Rob
November 23rd, 2011 - 1:19 am

Points of interest:

Page 5: Fine amounts are not random
As per the Collective Bargaining Agreement between the NFL and the NFLPA, the fine schedule is provided to the NFLPA prior to training camp for its review.

Page 10: The fine amounts listed are minimums. Other forms of discipline, including higher fine amounts and suspension, may be imposed based upon the play in question.

In other words, the “fine schedule” sets a minimum standard. Any amount above that is random. Glad we got that cleared up.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
11-23-2011, 01:01 PM
1) The new kickoff rule is just stupid

You know, I thought the same thing at first, but the farther we get into the season, I have come to these conclusions:

1. Obviously more kicks into (and out of) the end zone, mean more touchbacks, meaning fewer high-speed collisions on kickoffs, meaning fewer injuries. Mission accomplished by the league (and I am very much NOT a fan of the league office).

2. That said, there have still been a surprising number of returns from the endzone, meaning the best returners are willing (and apparently encouraged) to take chances to improve field position, resulting in a fair number of exciting returns.

3. It seemed that until the rule was changed, we were the ONLY team in the league who could never kick the ball into the endzone. Not a problem anymore. Suisham may have been able to kick into the endzone more often than Reed, but with the new rule, the opposing offense almost always has farther to go on average than they did in the past, which is HUGE considering the new pro-offense rules on the books.

I'm now a fan of the new kickoff rule.

I agree msp. I was not a fan of the idea at first but at this point have no complaints about it. I've enjoyed seeing returners take the ball out from 5-8 yards deep in their own EZ.