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Iron Shiek
11-06-2011, 10:58 PM
So how is Ray Lewis' hit on Ward any different than clarks? I"m so confused.

papillon
11-06-2011, 11:02 PM
So how is Ray Lewis' hit on Ward any different than clarks? I"m so confused.

No difference, Lewis' should have been a penalty and at worst it was a catch. The rules are ruining the game.

Pappy

AkronSteel
11-06-2011, 11:09 PM
Double standard call!!! It was a penalty on both sides. Ray didn't get penalized because he is Ray.....I'm sooo pissed, absolutely absurd!!!

:wft

Steelgal
11-06-2011, 11:32 PM
It's completely baffling to me. And to make it even worse, they reviewed it and called it an incomplete catch. That was even more infuriating.

Watcha wanna bet clark gets a higher fine too???

Iron Shiek
11-06-2011, 11:37 PM
I just realized I keep starting threads where I'm complaining. I can't help it.

I feel like I'd be arguing the same points if this was a raiders vs broncos game or something though.

Am I way off base on this officiating. Obviously Ben's INT put us in a crappy position, but still.

flippy
11-07-2011, 01:09 AM
SOmeone needs to ask Ray how much bounty he earned for knocking Ward out of the game.

Steel Life
11-07-2011, 01:28 AM
SOmeone needs to ask Ray how much bounty he earned for knocking Ward out of the game.
You have to wonder with all the begging Suggs was doing to Hines to play.

ikestops85
11-07-2011, 12:29 PM
Speaking of helmet to helmet, I think Brown took a shot to his head which also didn't draw a flag. There is no consistency amongst the officials. I don't mean to blame the officials for this loss but it's hard to watch when we can't play football.

feltdizz
11-07-2011, 12:33 PM
We were outplayed yesterday and that wasn't a catch...

it was helmet to helmet but Ward didn't control the ball...

Mister Pittsburgh
11-07-2011, 12:49 PM
Ward did posess the ball until he was laying flat on his back and got hit.

The announces downplayed Rays helmet to helmet. They did say it was helmet to helmet but then quickly moved on. When Clark went helmet to helmet, they were all about showing it in slow motion and saying he will get fined for sure, etc.

If Ray isn't fined for that hit, then Goodell loses all cred, if he ever had any to begin with.

Our WR were battling with hand play and grabbing all night. Cotchery was even shoved out of the endzone before the pass....we lay a hand on their WR's and we get called.

pittpete
11-07-2011, 01:24 PM
I absolutely abhor Lewis, but if he gets a fine for that hit on Ward then the NFL should turn all thier man-cards in.
Clark continues to lead with his helmet, game after game.
The rules have changed, when is Ryan going to learn?

feltdizz
11-07-2011, 01:29 PM
Ward did posess the ball until he was laying flat on his back and got hit.

The announces downplayed Rays helmet to helmet. They did say it was helmet to helmet but then quickly moved on. When Clark went helmet to helmet, they were all about showing it in slow motion and saying he will get fined for sure, etc.

If Ray isn't fined for that hit, then Goodell loses all cred, if he ever had any to begin with.

Our WR were battling with hand play and grabbing all night. Cotchery was even shoved out of the endzone before the pass....we lay a hand on their WR's and we get called.

I thought Clark was flagged for hitting a defenseless WR?

how much cred does Goodell have that he is still has some to lose? :wink:

Dresden
11-07-2011, 01:47 PM
Clark continues to lead with his helmet, game after game.
The rules have changed, when is Ryan going to learn?

Because he's exceptionally limited in terms of speed, size, strength and ball skills. Basically he's the former overacheiver whom arrives at a play late and spears opponents to hopefully jar the ball loose and or cover for the fact that he's awful as a F/S.

pittpete
11-07-2011, 02:23 PM
Because he's exceptionally limited in terms of speed, size, strength and ball skills. Basically he's the former overacheiver whom arrives at a play late and spears opponents to hopefully jar the ball loose and or cover for the fact that he's awful as a F/S.

Right on the $$$

steelz09
11-07-2011, 02:30 PM
Double standard call!!! It was a penalty on both sides. Ray didn't get penalized because he is Ray.....I'm sooo pissed, absolutely absurd!!!

:wft

Ray is Ray. Your exactly correct. For some reason, the NFL has their favorites and he is one of them. Ray is a great LB and is a hall of famer, but the NFL has double standards. That isn't even debatable.

If that was Suh or Harrison, you KNOW that is a penalty. no question.

papillon
11-07-2011, 02:38 PM
I absolutely abhor Lewis, but if he gets a fine for that hit on Ward then the NFL should turn all thier man-cards in.
Clark continues to lead with his helmet, game after game.
The rules have changed, when is Ryan going to learn?

Lewis lead with his helmet. It was as clear as day that he led with his helmet and caught Hines directly on his helmet without any buffer between the two. He should be fined and the Steelers should have been awarded 15 yards and a first down.

Pappy

Northern_Blitz
11-07-2011, 03:20 PM
So how is Ray Lewis' hit on Ward any different than clarks? I"m so confused.

No difference, Lewis' should have been a penalty and at worst it was a catch. The rules are ruining the game.

Pappy

Agree that it should be helmet-to-helmet. There is absolutely no consistency in how this rule is called. In the refs defense, I'm sure it is difficult to see in real time (but it should be easier when the defenseless receiver goes out with concussion like symptoms). Looking for Ray to get a big fine this week (but not holding my breath). According to the league for JH's fines, the defensive player is always at fault in these cases.

I don't believe that it was a catch. When the WR is hit during the catch, they have to maintain possession while going to the ground. Ward did not (in part because he may have gotten concussed).



I absolutely abhor Lewis, but if he gets a fine for that hit on Ward then the NFL should turn all thier man-cards in.
Clark continues to lead with his helmet, game after game.
The rules have changed, when is Ryan going to learn?

Lewis lead with his helmet. It was as clear as day that he led with his helmet and caught Hines directly on his helmet without any buffer between the two. He should be fined and the Steelers should have been awarded 15 yards and a first down.

Pappy

He didn't just lead with his helmet, he lead with his helmet aimed directly at Wards head. Ward did not move his head quickly at the last moment. Lewis torpedoed Ward's head with intent. I personally believe that this should not necessarily be against the rules, but as the rules are currently written, this should have been a 15 yard flag and should result in a hefty fine. Like Harrison, Lewis makes alot of money. With Harrison, the fine was proportional to the player's salary so this fine should be very large.

pittpete
11-07-2011, 05:35 PM
Just rewatched it, still dont believe Ray led with his helmet .
Big difference in the way Clark leads with his head.
I think you guys are getting soft :stirpot
See what Goodell is doing to everyone?
Basically same as Harrisons hit on Massaqoui last year
Compare the 2 without bias
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsp5rFNbq80
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeLKsV6FGpg

BTW, I dont think Harrisons was helmet to helmet either.

LordVile
11-07-2011, 07:49 PM
Just rewatched it, still dont believe Ray led with his helmet .
Big difference in the way Clark leads with his head.
I think you guys are getting soft :stirpot
See what Goodell is doing to everyone?
Basically same as Harrisons hit on Massaqoui last year
Compare the 2 without bias
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsp5rFNbq80
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeLKsV6FGpg

BTW, I dont think Harrisons was helmet to helmet either.

wow.. Ray didn't hit him with his arms.. clear as day to see he hit him with the helmet.. bring out ur BI-FOCALS..

DukieBoy
11-07-2011, 07:56 PM
Double standard call!!! It was a penalty on both sides. Ray didn't get penalized because he is Ray.....I'm sooo pissed, absolutely absurd!!!

:wft

Ray is Ray. Your exactly correct. For some reason, the NFL has their favorites and he is one of them. Ray is a great LB and is a hall of famer, but the NFL has double standards. That isn't even debatable.

If that was Suh or Harrison, you KNOW that is a penalty. no question.

The flag would have been out of the refs pocket before James laid a hand on the receiver, as in James' hit on Fitzpatrick.

hawaiiansteel
11-07-2011, 08:08 PM
Steelers-Ravens thoughts II

MONDAY, NOVEMBER 07, 2011
posted by Dale Lolley


If Ryan Clark had hit Hines Ward the way Ray Lewis did in the first quarter, a penalty flag would have been thrown.

That hit on Ward was clearly helmet to helmet and should have resulted in a penalty.

Clark was flagged for a hit on Smith later in the game that, while a penalty under the letter of the (new) law, wasn't nearly as vicious as the hit Lewis put on Ward.

http://nflfromthesidelines.blogspot.com ... ts-ii.html (http://nflfromthesidelines.blogspot.com/2011/11/steelers-ravens-thoughts-ii.html)

Discipline of Steel
11-07-2011, 11:27 PM
Berman was just talking about fines expected to be levied by Goodell and the boys on Ray Lewis, Ryan Clark, and James Harrison? I didnt see JHs H2H hit but i guess its just a welcome back for playing hard as usual.

How many think Ray Lewis will do anything other than laugh when he gets fined. The other Ravens players will look up at their leader in even higher esteem. To get fined is the red badge of toughness in the new NFL.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
11-08-2011, 01:27 AM
This is part of the pussification of the NFL and both the Steelers and the Ravens stand on the same side of this debate. This is definitely our one common ground.

As far as the Clark hit goes, he leads with his shoulder but makes first contact with the head. Lewis leads with the head and makes contact with the head.

This is not a post that is blaming officiating, bad calls are made both ways in every game. NFL officiating is probably the worst in pro sports. As long as it doesn't look like the Raiders game from last year then it just is an expected part of the game - you win some you lose some.

ikestops85
11-08-2011, 01:22 PM
I believe there was also a play where Antonio Brown got hit helmet to helmet and he dropped the ball. The announcers sort of glossed over it but I thought it was just like the hit that Clark delivered. Does anybody remember who delivered that hit?

Leper Friend
11-08-2011, 01:40 PM
Just rewatched it, still dont believe Ray led with his helmet .
Big difference in the way Clark leads with his head.
I think you guys are getting soft :stirpot
See what Goodell is doing to everyone?
Basically same as Harrisons hit on Massaqoui last year
Compare the 2 without bias
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsp5rFNbq80
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeLKsV6FGpg

BTW, I dont think Harrisons was helmet to helmet either.
According to Goodell , the responsibility is on the defender. It doesn't matter what the WR does , the defender has to come in under control and not make helmet to helmet contact. That's what Harrison was told last year.Lewis' hit is no different. it doesn't matter if we hate the rule , which I do , it matters that it's called for everyone and it's not.

Leper Friend
11-08-2011, 01:42 PM
Double standard call!!! It was a penalty on both sides. Ray didn't get penalized because he is Ray.....I'm sooo pissed, absolutely absurd!!!

:wft
It's almost as if he gets away with murder . :lol:

LordVile
11-09-2011, 06:08 AM
I believe there was also a play where Antonio Brown got hit helmet to helmet and he dropped the ball. The announcers sort of glossed over it but I thought it was just like the hit that Clark delivered. Does anybody remember who delivered that hit?

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/20 ... ison-fined (http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2011/11/8/2546996/ray-lewis-ryan-clark-james-harrison-fined)

McClain Did..

"The film shows McClain lowering and striking Brown with his helmet. The initial impact is on Brown's shoulder/neck area, and his helmet glanced from there to Brown's head. The rule above does not specifically refer to helmet-to-helmet hits, though. It speaks specifically to the defensive player using his helmet to strike a player.

McClain shoves Brown to the ground, where the ball pops free. It's clear Brown is at best semi-conscious when he hits the ground and loses the ball. The play is ruled an incomplete pass.

The catch likely have been ruled a first down, had he maintained possession. Without a catch, though, the personal foul penalty that should have been called would have given the Steelers 1st-and-goal from Baltimore's 10 yard line.

So in essence, two Ravens linebackers had separate illegal hits on two Steelers receivers. Both Steelers receivers appear to lose consciousness in each play, both are ruled incomplete passes. Had they maintained possession, both would have been first downs deep in Ravens territory.

While McClain isn't named in Schefter's Tweet, for argument's sake, let's say he does end up being fined. How is fining either Lewis or McClain going to prevent this in the future? Why would a highly competitive NFL player allow a catch for a first down in a competitive game if the only consequence of breaking the rules would be a 10 percent reduction in his game check? "

papillon
11-09-2011, 06:20 AM
Just rewatched it, still dont believe Ray led with his helmet .
Big difference in the way Clark leads with his head.
I think you guys are getting soft :stirpot
See what Goodell is doing to everyone?
Basically same as Harrisons hit on Massaqoui last year
Compare the 2 without bias
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsp5rFNbq80
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GeLKsV6FGpg

BTW, I dont think Harrisons was helmet to helmet either.

I don't know Pittpete, Lewis lowered his head and lead into Ward with his head and made initial contact H2H, from where I stand (or sit). Harrison's while close appeared to actually hit with his shoulder first and then the H2H after the WR ducked a bit.

They don't look similar to me at all.

Pappy

Discipline of Steel
11-09-2011, 07:33 AM
While McClain isn't named in Schefter's Tweet, for argument's sake, let's say he does end up being fined. How is fining either Lewis or McClain going to prevent this in the future? Why would a highly competitive NFL player allow a catch for a first down in a competitive game if the only consequence of breaking the rules would be a 10 percent reduction in his game check? "

To carry it a step further...

When i was a kid, if my parents told me not to do something, the first thing i would do is that thing they told me not to do. Do players wear their fines as a badge of honor? Do their teamates secretly congratulate them for getting away with breaking the rules? Does the rule provide incentive to make egregious H2H hits?

feltdizz
11-09-2011, 01:59 PM
Geez... given how touchy that holding call was on the first play of the game I can't see how anyone thinks the Ravens or Ray gets all the calls.

NFL officiating is horrible all around but I'm getting a little worried about some of my Planet Steeler friends.

Way too much crying over the refs IMO.

hawaiiansteel
11-09-2011, 03:17 PM
Ray Lewis fined for hit on Hines Ward

Posted by Mike Florio on November 9, 2011

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/hinesward-e1320863929750.jpg?w=250

On Sunday night, Ravens linebacker Ray Lewis applied a clear helmet-to-helmet hit to Steelers receiver Hines Ward after Ward caught a pass. Lewis wasnít penalized for a blow that caused Ward to leave the game with what the team eventually (and perhaps reluctantly) called ďconcussion-like symptoms.Ē

Lewis is now suffering from a case of fine-like symptoms.

Aaron Wilson of the Carroll County Times reports that Lewis has been notified by the league office that heís been fined for the illegal hit on a defenseless receiver.

ďYeah, I heard from the league and like I said they fined me whatever they was going to fine me,Ē Lewis said. ďThe thing is you definitely respect them trying to protect player safety. At the same time, it wonít change not one way I play this week no matter what the fine is. You canít stop playing defense the way defense has always been created to play. When the receiver has the ball, your job is to disengage him from the ball. You never want to hurt nobody. Iíve been in this business too long. I just think once you start getting into these fines I donít know how they come up with the numbers most of the time.Ē

Lewis didnít disclose the amount. (And no one apparently has had the nerve to ask him.)

The bigger problem is that the officials, who are told to err on the side of protecting players, failed to penalize Lewis. The best way to avoid such outcomes would be to make these calls immediately reviewable by the replay officials, without the time-wasting, dog-and-pony exercise of the referee walking over to the sidelines, putting on a headset, talking to the replay official, climbing under the hood of the mobile ballot box, pondering the replay angles, removing the headset, walking out onto the field, and providing an explanation that often is way too wordy, especially when Ed Hochuli is working the game.

Itís a helmet-to-helmet hit, or it isnít. The replay official should have the power to throw the flag from the replay booth.

I donít mean that literally. Then again, it could be fun to watch the yellow flag sail down from the second deck.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... ines-ward/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/11/09/ray-lewis-fined-for-hit-on-hines-ward/)

Slapstick
11-09-2011, 03:37 PM
Geez... given how touchy that holding call was on the first play of the game I can't see how anyone thinks the Ravens or Ray gets all the calls.

NFL officiating is horrible all around but I'm getting a little worried about some of my Planet Steeler friends.

Way too much crying over the refs IMO.

If that's the way you feel, I'm sure there are other Steelers boards that would welcome you...

Way too much crying about other peoples opinions, IMO...

Anyway, back on topic:

It isn't the calls as much as it is the consistency...either a ref should call a helmet-to-helmet hit or not call it...if that kind of contact has been deemed unsafe, then it should ALWAYS BE CALLED...

Simple, really...

feltdizz
11-09-2011, 06:49 PM
Geez... given how touchy that holding call was on the first play of the game I can't see how anyone thinks the Ravens or Ray gets all the calls.

NFL officiating is horrible all around but I'm getting a little worried about some of my Planet Steeler friends.

Way too much crying over the refs IMO.

If that's the way you feel, I'm sure there are other Steelers boards that would welcome you...

Way too much crying about other peoples opinions, IMO...

Anyway, back on topic:

It isn't the calls as much as it is the consistency...either a ref should call a helmet-to-helmet hit or not call it...if that kind of contact has been deemed unsafe, then it should ALWAYS BE CALLED...

Simple, really...

I had no idea there were other Steeler boards. Thanks for the info. LOL.

Anyway... Refs will never call every H2H because the game is too fast.

What penalty is called consistently in any sport? Strikes, balls, holding, interference, chargean block etc... Its impossible to get consistency as a fan of a team.

Fines should be consistant but its impossible to get perfect results from refs.

If you ask anyone besides a Steeler fan about favoritism and you will hear about how WE get all the calls.
We don't but you would think we do the way they talk.

If you want consistency stop watching the NFL. They will never call H2H everytime.

hawaiiansteel
11-09-2011, 07:05 PM
NOVEMBER 09, 2011
posted by Dale Lolley

Wednesday news and notes


Ryan Clark was fined $40,000 for his penalized hit on Baltimore tight end Ed Dickson last Sunday and he and his teammates aren't happy about it.

This is the second week in a row Clark has been fined. He got hit with a $15,000 fine for hitting New England tight end Rob Gronkowski out of bounds two weeks ago.

Meanwhile, Baltimore's Ray Lewis was fined $20,000 for his unpenalized helmet-to-helmet hit on Hines Ward that knocked Ward out of the game.

And therein lies part of my problem with the way the NFL levies its fines.

If a player draws a penalty for what it deemed and illegal hit, hasn't he already paid - and by extension, his team - for the incident?

How can an incident that drew a flag also draw a larger fine for a hit that wasn't flagged and also knocked a player out of a game?

Some will say it is because Clark is a repeat offender, and there is some truth to that. But Lewis has also been fined for illegal hits in the past.

James Harrison said he has not heard anything from the league about a potential fine from Sunday's game. ESPN reported that Harrison will be fined, but Harrison said that was speculation on the part of reporter Adam Schefter.

He does not expect to be fined.

© Mike Tomlin released this statement in regard to the fine on Clark: "I think the fine that Ryan Clark received was excessive. I am a proponent of player safety and the league's pursuit of improvement in this area. I, like the vast majority of people in this industry, witness daily the steep price that these young men pay to play this game on so many levels. Ryan has my full support if he chooses to appeal this in any way."

© Ben Roethlisberger talked about the final sequence of plays at the end of the game against the Ravens today. Here's what he had to say:

Q: Ben, in retrospect, would you just rather have run the ball three times at the end?

Unfortunately, the plays were there. It was either a miscommunication where one guy saw something and the other guy say something else. The plays were there. You can look at it now and say, ĎIf we would have done this, this would have happened.í You can do that in every sport after every game. Weíll go and weíll stay aggressive because thatís the kind of offense we are.

Q: Re: The miscommunications?

I think itís always going to happen. I guarantee that Tom Brady and Peyton Manning and those guys that you say are the best offenses, have had miscommunications. You have to limit them. You canít have them in key situations like that with guys that you expect to make the plays. If you have one a game, you have one a game, but we have to limit them and not have them in key situations.

Q: You and Mewelde Moore have completed a lot of passes over the years.

Heís running a flat route and heís got the option to turn it up late. He felt he had the linebacker on him, which he did, he could beat him turning it up the field. Heís supposed to wait a second to see if I wait half a second to turn it up. He was excited about turning it up because he had the backer trailing him. I was trying to get it to him in the flat to get the first down. Thatís one of those things that itís the first time it ever happened and it probably wonít ever happen again.

http://www.observer-reporter.com/or/sidelines/

Discipline of Steel
11-10-2011, 06:21 PM
NOVEMBER 09, 2011
posted by Dale Lolley

Wednesday news and notes


Ryan Clark was fined $40,000 for his penalized hit on Baltimore tight end Ed Dickson last Sunday and he and his teammates aren't happy about it.

This is the second week in a row Clark has been fined. He got hit with a $15,000 fine for hitting New England tight end Rob Gronkowski out of bounds two weeks ago.

Meanwhile, Baltimore's Ray Lewis was fined $20,000 for his unpenalized helmet-to-helmet hit on Hines Ward that knocked Ward out of the game.

And therein lies part of my problem with the way the NFL levies its fines.

If a player draws a penalty for what it deemed and illegal hit, hasn't he already paid - and by extension, his team - for the incident?

How can an incident that drew a flag also draw a larger fine for a hit that wasn't flagged and also knocked a player out of a game?

Some will say it is because Clark is a repeat offender, and there is some truth to that. But Lewis has also been fined for illegal hits in the past.



Here is another angle to the inequity of fines. One could argue that Clark at least attempted to lead with his shoulder and his head got in the way. Ray Lewis is freakin launched at Hines Ward when the helmets collided. Add in all the pregame talk of a bounty on Ward and i dont see how Ray Lewis had the lesser offense.

Check this good article on Steelers Depot with photos of each impact.
http://www.steelersdepot.com/2011/11/ry ... -all-week/ (http://www.steelersdepot.com/2011/11/ryan-clark-ray-lewis-hits-in-steelers-ravens-game-will-be-talked-about-all-week/)

Slapstick
11-11-2011, 07:32 AM
If you want consistency stop watching the NFL. They will never call H2H everytime.

Then why make H2H a point of emphasis in player safety?

Officials are told to err on the side of player safety...unless, apparently, that player has a hypocycloid on the side of his helmet...