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View Full Version : Prediction: Raiders are about to take another long hard fall



Dee Dub
10-18-2011, 01:15 PM
I'll admit they have started to come back to some respectability as a franchise...but when you now have traded all of your 2012 draft picks except your 5th and 6th rounders, your second or possibly your first rounder for 2013, and you are relying (investing heavily), in the arms of Carson Palmer, Jason Campbell, and Terrell Pryor, you are looking at another long, lean, stretch of mediocrity.

A COMMITMENT TO MEDIOCRITY!!!

There is the term "Death Penalty" in college football...I think the Raiders have just done that to themselves.

hawaiiansteel
10-18-2011, 01:56 PM
Raiders go all in with Carson Palmer

Posted by Gregg Rosenthal on October 18, 2011

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2011/10/c-palmerfingerup.jpg?w=165

The Raiders are not afraid to test the theory that good teams are built through the draft.

Following the acquisition of Carson Palmer, the Raiders donít have a pick in the first four rounds of the 2012 draft. They used three of the picks on the quarterback position alone.

They sent their 2012 first round pick for Palmer. They used their third round pick in the supplemental draft for Terrelle Pryor. And the fourth-round pick was used (smartly) to acquire Jason Campbell during the 2010 draft.

The Raiders also sent their second round pick in a trade during the 2011 draft with the Patriots. (They took Joseph Barksdale and Taiwan Jones in exchange for the picks.)

The Palmer trade is an all-in move. Nothing less than a playoff appearance would be a massive disappointment. This type of investment is all about winning a title this year or soon. Palmer should be the teamís starter, for better or worse, for a while.

Palmerís history with Raiders coach Hue Jackson is one reason to think it will work. Palmerís play the last few years is one reason to think it wonít work.

It better work, because the Raiders canít expect any help on the way from next yearís rookie class.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... on-palmer/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/10/18/raiders-go-all-in-with-carson-palmer/)

Shoe
10-18-2011, 09:31 PM
I really don't think it's the loss of "one whole draft" that's the problem. Of course, it sucks badly. But I don't think we can say that if they do fall, it's BECAUSE of losing this draft class. I think it's more a sign of a sorry administration.

i.e. I think a team like Pittsburgh (maybe not this current, older team... but maybe one of our a bit younger incarnations) could survive a situation where we trade away all our picks one year and still be "the Pittsburgh Steelers."

Again, I think it shows that the administration is retarded on some level, and that manifests itself in other ways that make losing a whole draft impossible to overcome.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
10-18-2011, 10:06 PM
I don't see how Carson Palmer warrants a first, let alone a conditional first or second on top of that. :roll:

Slapstick
10-18-2011, 10:27 PM
I don't see how Carson Palmer warrants a first, let alone a conditional first or second on top of that. :roll:

Desperation...

Jackson thinks the Raiders are contenders, so giving Kyle Boller the keys isn't an option...

Jackson worked with Palmer at USC and in Cincinnati...he also knows that the Raiders had to make Mike Brown an offer that even he wouldn't be idiotic enough to refuse...

SanAntonioSteelerFan
10-18-2011, 10:57 PM
Anybody think all these top picks are going to make the Bengals a seriously good team in the next year or three?

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skyhawk
10-19-2011, 02:33 AM
A lot of pressure on Palmer now.

And the funny thing is I don't even think Ben would command what the Raiders gave up by any other team. This is really desperation.

feltdizz
10-19-2011, 05:44 PM
There isn't any pressure on Carson. Its the Raiders and he has been sitting on the couch for 7 weeks.

The pressure is on the Raiders front office and on the Bungles if Dalton flames out. I live in Charlotte and Dalton is the flavor of the month because Cam is getting heat for not winning like Dalton. Funny thing I'd the Bengals D is the key to the success more than Dalton. He isn't lighting it up he is benefiting from a week schedule and good D.

The Bungles have to make some noise or its the same old same old.

The Raiders think this is their year and while its probably not I can't fault them for jumping on Carson but a 1st and a 2013? Really?

birtikidis
10-19-2011, 06:00 PM
Anybody think all these top picks are going to make the Bengals a seriously good team in the next year or three?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
If Dalton and Green pan out, then it's quite possible.

Pahn711
10-19-2011, 06:41 PM
Carson Palmer may not be a Pro Bowl quarterback, but I think its fair to say he is the best one they've had since Rich Gannon. Am I wrong?

Declaring this a bad move is way too premature in my book. It has the potential to turn a mediocre team into at least a moderately good one, if Palmer hasn't lost his edge.

hawaiiansteel
10-19-2011, 09:51 PM
The Carson Palmer Trade: Is Hue Jackson too confident in himself?

Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2011

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_AvatOSrugTA/TTUPlFb4JkI/AAAAAAAAAaA/iq3BggUEdlU/s1600/hue-jackson.jpg

The Carson Palmer deal is particularly troubling because it has all of the elements of a disastrous trade: a name brand star who hasn't played like on recently, a reactionary move that was not in their original plans, an exorbitant offer that even the other team wasn't expecting, and an utter disregard for the long term state of the franchise that has more potential to hurt the team in future years than it does to help them in 2011.

But I'm going to focus on a different part of the deal: Hue Jackson. He's a great offensive mind, no doubt about it. However, with Al Davis' passing, Jackson suddenly took a role he had little to no familiarity with: GM.

From here, it's pretty easy to connect the dots. As someone who basically had no front office experience, Jackson was either unfamiliar with or simply did not care about conventional wisdom. And if there's anyone who will break all of the rules of being a GM, it's someone who's brand new to the job in an environment as bizarre as Oakland's. While some fans will praise Jackson's defiance of conventional wisdom as trying to win now and going all in, all this trade tells me is that Jackson simply doesn't know how to be a GM.

Most teams would try to find a stopgap quarterback on the cheap, even through free agency or a modest trade. Jackson took a strange approach altogether. As of three days ago, Carson Palmer was basically not on Oakland's radar. It did not appear that Oakland wanted to find a challenger for Jason Campbell in the offseason, and in the off chance they did, they did not hold Palmer at a remarkably high value. All of a sudden, they have decided to scrap Jason Campbell and hand the future to Palmer. That's nice and all, but all that tells me is that they didn't have an actual plan. They didn't have a well thought out approach - they just looked to Week 7 and put everything else in the back burner. That sounds awfully Snyderesque to me.

Why Carson Palmer, then? The reasons appear to start and end with him being Hue Jackson's "guy." He was like a kid in a candy store - he didn't care that those sour gummy worms were ridiculously overpriced or that they could increase his risk for diabetes down the road. He saw an opportunity to get one of his favorite players and put that in the forefront, pretty much disregarding the ramifications. Experienced GMs don't do that. They have their favorite players, too, but they play the market and just say no when the risk outweighs the reward. Jackson didn't do that. Instead, he was trigger happy and took a very shortsighted approach.

http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/v ... p?t=465474 (http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=465474)

rpmpit
10-20-2011, 09:33 AM
I don't see how this is a bad move for the Raiders. Palmer is a good qb that was unfortunately (for him) stuck on a pathetic team. I also don't understand how a veteran, franchise qb isn't worth a first round draft pick - which is always a hit-or-miss proposition. Maybe I'm just not seeing something.

feltdizz
10-20-2011, 10:05 AM
I don't see how this is a bad move for the Raiders. Palmer is a good qb that was unfortunately (for him) stuck on a pathetic team. I also don't understand how a veteran, franchise qb isn't worth a first round draft pick - which is always a hit-or-miss proposition. Maybe I'm just not seeing something.

Palmer has been on a slide recently...

Raiders have given up so many picks over the years this has to work or they will be bad for years to come.

They have a strong ground game so who knows... it may be an awesome move but I'm not a fan of the Bengals getting another 1st and a potential 1st or 2nd in 2013.

RuthlessBurgher
10-20-2011, 10:11 AM
There isn't any pressure on Carson. Its the Raiders and he has been sitting on the couch for 7 weeks.

The pressure is on the Raiders front office and on the Bungles if Dalton flames out. I live in Charlotte and Dalton is the flavor of the month because Cam is getting heat for not winning like Dalton. Funny thing I'd the Bengals D is the key to the success more than Dalton. He isn't lighting it up he is benefiting from a week schedule and good D.

The Bungles have to make some noise or its the same old same old.

The Raiders think this is their year and while its probably not I can't fault them for jumping on Carson but a 1st and a 2013? Really?

Cam getting heat for not winning like Dalton at this point in their careers is like Josh Freeman getting heat for not leading his team to back to back conference championship games like Mark Sanchez has. I would have to wonder about anyone that would prefer a marginal talent like Dalton or Sanchez over a remarkable speciman like Newton or Freeman.

Pahn711
10-20-2011, 11:25 AM
Raiders have given up so many picks over the years this has to work or they will be bad for years to come.

They have a strong ground game so who knows... it may be an awesome move but I'm not a fan of the Bengals getting another 1st and a potential 1st or 2nd in 2013.

Haven't the Raiders been notoriously bad at drafting quality players in the first round lately? Darrius Heyward-Bey and Jamarcus Russell stick out in my mind. From that viewpoint, maybe its not such a bad thing not having to pay underachieving first round picks for a few years. They can be even bigger players in free agency, which is obviously what they are doing.

Dee Dub
10-20-2011, 11:33 AM
My point is this...

When you practicly have given one whole draft away (2012), and have started to take a chunk out of the one after that (2013), that has a way of affecting a team for a long time. Then factor in the that you "think" you are close to winning now but are going to rely on the arms of a Carson Palmer (who is on the downside of his career), Jason Campbell (a never was), and Terrell Pryor ( a never will be), you are going to find lean years ahead again.

That too me is a bad formula for the future of one's franchise.

hawaiiansteel
10-20-2011, 04:02 PM
Newly acquired QB Palmer playing catchup in hopes of starting Sunday

Thursday, October 20, 2011
By Josh Dubow, Associated Press

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/images/201110/palmer1020a_500.jpg

ALAMEDA, Calif. -- On the second play of practice for Oakland's starting offense, Carson Palmer stepped in and ran a play.

The question now is whether Palmer can do enough this week to earn the starting quarterback job for the Raiders in place of the injured Jason Campbell.

Palmer shared first-team snaps Wednesday with Kyle Boller, who has been with the Raiders the past two seasons and has a big advantage in terms of knowledge of the offense and chemistry with the receivers.

But Palmer has the stronger pedigree and was acquired at a high price, meaning the Raiders will give him every chance to get that job as the starter Sunday against Kansas City.

"It's one day," coach Hue Jackson said. "I'm not in a rush. I don't have to rush that decision. I'm going to take my time and see where they are and see how fast he picks up the system, see how fast he gets in line with his teammates, and we'll kind of go from there."

It has been a whirlwind few days for Palmer, who was a retired player in Southern California Monday. That changed Tuesday when Oakland sent Cincinnati a 2012 first-round pick and a second-rounder in '13 that could become another first if the Raiders make it to the AFC title game.

Palmer had to pass a physical, meet new teammates, start learning the playbook and then start shaking off the rust in his first practice since the end of last season.

"There's definitely a learning curve involved for sure, and I noticed that right off the bat," Palmer said. "But it was exciting. It was fun to be playing football, it was fun to be in a huddle again, it was fun to be throwing routes in 7-on-7 and teams and all these things. But I definitely have my work cut out for me as far as getting the verbiage down, especially when it comes to playing the quarterback position."

Palmer retired during the offseason rather than return to the Bengals. Cincinnati had refused to trade him, but the Bengals finally relented Tuesday when the Raiders made their big offer after Campbell broke his collarbone.

Jackson said he had some concerns about starting a player at quarterback after only three practices with the team, but that won't necessarily stop him from doing it.

"I kind of like it like that," Jackson said. "I think he kind of likes it like that. I think we all do. But we'll make the right decision for this football team. We've got a game to win, and that's the most important thing.

"Whatever I think is going to help us win this football game, that's what I'm going to do."

Palmer's new teammates are excited to have him on board, many of them having watched or competed against Palmer over the years. But they know how tough it will be for Palmer to get up to speed quickly enough to play Sunday.

"I just know if I was on the streets for a while I'd need about, myself personally to knock the rust off as a defensive lineman, I'd need personally about three weeks to get back into form," Richard Seymour said.

Palmer spent time after practice doing extra work with receivers Darrius Heyward-Bey and Jacoby Ford.

"It's just a matter of the timing, he has to get that down and get used to the offense and has to get used to new receivers," Ford said.

"Whenever we can do that we'll be clicking on all cylinders."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11293/11 ... z1bLXL6ZNJ (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11293/1183435-66-0.stm?cmpid=steelers.xml#ixzz1bLXL6ZNJ)