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View Full Version : Timmons rushed the QB more than JH ever does



steeler_fan_in_t.o.
10-13-2011, 10:20 PM
For those of you who know the site profootballfocus they break down everything in a game. Here is their breakdown of the Steelers/Titans game.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/20 ... rs-week-5/ (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/10/10/re-focused-titans-steelers-week-5/)

Here is the thing that I found most interesting:


one of Timmons strengths is coverage and no 3-4 linebacker drops more than Harrison (42% of passing snaps this year) and here was Timmons rushing on 75% of all plays; far more than Harrison.

I've said many times that this is why OLBs like Ware cannot even be mentioned in the same sentence as Harrison. He might get 4 or 5 more sacks per year, but Harrison drops into coverage and makes 100 tackles a year, Ware never drops into coverage and gets 66 tackles. :HeadBanger

But I digress.....

So now, Harrison is replaced by someone who is better in coverage and can't rush the passer as well and what do we do??? We ramp up the number of times that the ROLB is going to rush the QB. This is not a complaint about the change to increase the frequency in which we send the ROLB, rather it is a question of why it has taken so long to do so....

To me the only acceptable reason for this season is because with James' back issues they didn't want him banging with so many wide bodies, but that does not explain why he has always dropped into coverage so often.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
10-13-2011, 10:38 PM
For those of you who know the site profootballfocus they break down everything in a game. Here is their breakdown of the Steelers/Titans game.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/20 ... rs-week-5/ (http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2011/10/10/re-focused-titans-steelers-week-5/)

Here is the thing that I found most interesting:


one of Timmons strengths is coverage and no 3-4 linebacker drops more than Harrison (42% of passing snaps this year) and here was Timmons rushing on 75% of all plays; far more than Harrison.

I've said many times that this is why OLBs like Ware cannot even be mentioned in the same sentence as Harrison. He might get 4 or 5 more sacks per year, but Harrison drops into coverage and makes 100 tackles a year, Ware never drops into coverage and gets 66 tackles. :HeadBanger

But I digress.....

So now, Harrison is replaced by someone who is better in coverage and can't rush the passer as well and what do we do??? We ramp up the number of times that the ROLB is going to rush the QB. This is not a complaint about the change to increase the frequency in which we send the ROLB, rather it is a question of why it has taken so long to do so....

To me the only acceptable reason for this season is because with James' back issues they didn't want him banging with so many wide bodies, but that does not explain why he has always dropped into coverage so often.

I don't have the football IQ to answer that, but a little OT, I remember one very nice play where Harrison dropped back into coverage ... good outcome for Steeler Nation (not a view shared by Curt Warner)!!! :tt2 :tt1

Discipline of Steel
10-13-2011, 11:12 PM
Any way you slice it. James Harrison is THE MAN :Beer

I like that website by the way, saved it to Favs...

birtikidis
10-13-2011, 11:55 PM
I think it has a lot to do with the fact that the LT for the Titans is not a world beater. He's average. Some games Harrison will rush more than others. You're reading to much into 1, and I repeat, 1 game.

SidSmythe
10-14-2011, 10:05 AM
I think OC's all over the NFL gameplan formation shifts and motions to make sure Harrison is dropping into coverage.

RuthlessBurgher
10-14-2011, 10:14 AM
I don't have the football IQ to answer that, but a little OT, I remember one very nice play where Harrison dropped back into coverage ... good outcome for Steeler Nation (not a view shared by Curt Warner)!!! :tt2 :tt1

I don't know whether or not Curt Warner had a strong opinion about that play...

http://www.thesportsbank.net/core/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/curt-warner.jpg

...but Kurt Warner wasn't too happy about it!

http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/cnishared/tools/shared/mediahub/01/67/42/slideshow_942671_033534_Super_Bowl_XLIII_Foo.JPG

dsmith
10-14-2011, 11:08 AM
I think OC's all over the NFL gameplan formation shifts and motions to make sure Harrison is dropping into coverage.

+1 - It's all about matchups.

Northern_Blitz
10-14-2011, 11:08 AM
My guess is that Timmons wasn't as familiar with the position as JH is. There is less chance of screwing up your assignment when it's "rush the passer" as opposed to playing coverage.

It may also be that we use JH as a decoy alot. The O has to respect the fact the JH can kill you, so maybe LeBeau likes to rush others that they don't see coming. Conversely, dropping JH into coverage often might lull the opponent into a false sense of security.

Just a couple thoughts.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
10-14-2011, 11:30 AM
I wouldn't mind Lebeau moving JH around a little bit so that he isn't always playing right over the guy who is supposed to be the premier pass protector on the line. Shake things up a bit. Imagine if you are a QB facing the Steelers D and have to be pre-occupied with where he is lining up every play at the same time you are searching out that ball of hair known as Troy.

Dee Dub
10-14-2011, 11:36 AM
My guess is that Timmons wasn't as familiar with the position as JH is. There is less chance of screwing up your assignment when it's "rush the passer" as opposed to playing coverage.

It may also be that we use JH as a decoy alot. The O has to respect the fact the JH can kill you, so maybe LeBeau likes to rush others that they don't see coming. Conversely, dropping JH into coverage often might lull the opponent into a false sense of security.

Just a couple thoughts.

This is exactly why Timmons rushed so much. It's a lot easier and less complexed for a player who is somewhat unfamiliar with a position to rush the QB than to drop in coverage.


I have said this a million times on this forum. The reason why LeBeau drops his backers in coverage so much is because of Ryan Clark and Troy Polamalu. When you dont have a free safety who is good in coverage and your defensive scheme is built around moving your strong safety all over the place, you have to run a deep cover 1 with zone underneath a lot more than you would like too.

Leper Friend
10-14-2011, 01:06 PM
I don't have the football IQ to answer that, but a little OT, I remember one very nice play where Harrison dropped back into coverage ... good outcome for Steeler Nation (not a view shared by Curt Warner)!!! :tt2 :tt1

I don't know whether or not Curt Warner had a strong opinion about that play...

http://www.thesportsbank.net/core/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/curt-warner.jpg

...but Kurt Warner wasn't too happy about it!

http://alt.coxnewsweb.com/cnishared/tools/shared/mediahub/01/67/42/slideshow_942671_033534_Super_Bowl_XLIII_Foo.JPG
I used to love Curt Warner ! I always played as the Seahawks on Tecmo Bowl just to run with him.

Flasteel
10-14-2011, 02:30 PM
I think it has a lot to do with the fact that the LT for the Titans is not a world beater. He's average. Some games Harrison will rush more than others. You're reading to much into 1, and I repeat, 1 game.

Agreed 100%. I don't think you can look at a single game to determine such a discrepency.

RuthlessBurgher
10-14-2011, 03:11 PM
I used to love Curt Warner ! I always played as the Seahawks on Tecmo Bowl just to run with him.

Tecmo Bo Jackson could kick Tecmo Curt Warner's virtual ass. :wink:

RuthlessBurgher
10-14-2011, 03:16 PM
I think it has a lot to do with the fact that the LT for the Titans is not a world beater. He's average. Some games Harrison will rush more than others. You're reading to much into 1, and I repeat, 1 game.

Michael Roos is definitely better than an average LT in this league. And since I've had the opportunity to watch Max Starks play LT for the last several years, I know what an average LT looks like.

hawaiiansteel
10-16-2011, 09:33 PM
Post-Jaguars thoughts

posted by Dale Lolley
SUNDAY, OCTOBER 16, 2011


OK, the Lawrence Timmons at outside linebacker thing has pretty much run its course.

Can you believe Timmons played an entire game today with the Jaguars running his way and had not a single tackle. That's right, zero.

He also was a non-factor as a pass rusher despite being lined up against Cameron Bradfield and guard Will Rackley, a pair of rookies from football powerhouses Lehigh and Grand Valley State.

Timmons is a run-and-chase linebacker who excels in coverage. If Jason Worilds is able to play next week at Arizona, the Steelers would be well served to put him at outside linebacker or move Timmons back inside.

If not, Beanie Wells could run wild.

http://www.observer-reporter.com/or/sidelines/

chiken
10-16-2011, 09:57 PM
Timmons Sucks as an outside linebacker.. He cant shed and his speed is useless against a man right in front of him.. He could barely sack the dang on Qb getting a running start from the middle of the field..
Please get him back to his NFL position.

NJ-STEELER
10-16-2011, 10:00 PM
he's lost out there as an OLB in the 3-4

not fast enough to get around the edge, not strong enuff to bull thru the LT

hawaiiansteel
10-17-2011, 02:44 AM
Jim Wexell:

"Timmons did not make the stat sheet. There are 11 defensive categories in which to make a statistic. Timmons went 0 for 11.

But Timmons was in perfect position to cover Mercedes Lewis on a third-and-10 incompletion. Thatís what Timmons was born to do, cover tight ends and running backs. This nonsense at outside linebacker canít end soon enough."

steelz09
10-17-2011, 09:24 AM
Timmons was a non-factor.

I know some say he's a natural 3-4 ILB but I totally disagree. Farrior was born to play 3-4 ILB. Yes, he's old and has seen better days but when I think prototype 3-4 ILB, I think Farrior.

I don't think Timmons fits our defensive scheme that well. He's a 4-3 linebacker IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I still like having Timmons on the team but I think Timmons needs that prototype ILB next to him to compliment him where he struggles. IMO, that's still the run game, particularly inside runs.

chiken
10-17-2011, 09:32 AM
Timmons was a non-factor.

I know some say he's a natural 3-4 ILB but I totally disagree. Farrior was born to play 3-4 ILB. Yes, he's old and has seen better days but when I think prototype 3-4 ILB, I think Farrior.

I don't think Timmons fits our defensive scheme that well. He's a 4-3 linebacker IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I still like having Timmons on the team but I think Timmons needs that prototype ILB next to him to compliment him where he struggles. IMO, that's still the run game, particularly inside runs.

He Reminds me of Kendrell bell - Though he is a Cover guy where Kendrell was a one man Run stopper.. He fits our Defense especially in Todays passing era. He's a difference maker as an Inside "cover" guy.

As an outside guy he is just plain useless garbage.

steelz09
10-17-2011, 09:39 AM
Timmons was a non-factor.

I know some say he's a natural 3-4 ILB but I totally disagree. Farrior was born to play 3-4 ILB. Yes, he's old and has seen better days but when I think prototype 3-4 ILB, I think Farrior.

I don't think Timmons fits our defensive scheme that well. He's a 4-3 linebacker IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I still like having Timmons on the team but I think Timmons needs that prototype ILB next to him to compliment him where he struggles. IMO, that's still the run game, particularly inside runs.

He Reminds me of Kendrell bell - Though he is a Cover guy where Kendrell was a one man Run stopper.. He fits our Defense especially in Todays passing era. He's a difference maker as an Inside "cover" guy.

As an outside guy he is just plain useless garbage.

Yeah I agree and I think we're saying the same thing. I would not want two Timmons' at ILB. I think our run defense would be poor. A Farrior & Timmons combination obviously works. Heck, even Foote and Timmons would work. Kendrell Bell and Timmons would work. My point is Timmons needs that true prototype ILB like Farrior.

LouSteel
10-17-2011, 12:08 PM
Timmons seems exceptionally well suited for the Tampa 2. :stirpot

Slapstick
10-17-2011, 12:12 PM
Timmons seems exceptionally well suited for the Tampa 2. :stirpot

I know you're being facetious, but it is true...

He would be a good WLB or even an MLB in that defense...