Only when Ariens shows he can make in-game adjustments ...

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

... along the lines of, "Our game plan sucks and isn't working at all ... let's do this instead ..." will (IMO) he have shown that he is a good OC.

Sure the coaching staff put together a good game plan against the Titans. But who here wants to bet anything more than milk money that if the game hadn't started out well that Ariens would have had a "Plan B" ready to go?

I don't EVER remember Ariens showing he had a plan B, does anyone else?

[Discipline of Steel]

Plan A is RUTFM and take 5 shots downfield to Mike Wallace.

Plan B is 'See Plan A'.

[hawaiiansteel]

Plan A is RUTFM and take 5 shots downfield to Mike Wallace.

Plan B is 'See Plan A'.


you forgot the mandatory bubble screens...

[steelblood]

plan b is let ben run the no huddle.

[Djfan]

plan b is let ben run the no huddle.


It should be, or at least the plan C or D.

The sad fact about this thread is that some here are so experienced with this guy that they expect him to revert to stupidville.

[Pahn711]

... along the lines of, "Our game plan sucks and isn't working at all ... let's do this instead ..." will (IMO) he have shown that he is a good OC.

Sure the coaching staff put together a good game plan against the Titans. But who here wants to bet anything more than milk money that if the game hadn't started out well that Ariens would have had a "Plan B" ready to go?

I don't EVER remember Ariens showing he had a plan B, does anyone else?

Of course, when we play bad its Arians fault. When we play good someone else on the coaching staff is responsible. Condemn, hang and crucify the man. Because you should obviously be the new Steelers OC, the expert that you are. :roll:

[feltdizz]

I swear it's like some of you are scared the earth will end if you don't bash BA.

Anything you say about BA you are also saying about Ben... they are one.

Continue bashing... Ben appreciates the hate. :stirpot

[Djfan]

Yeah, Ben really pissed me off when he cut Krieder and Kuhn, then got rid of the FB position for good around here.

[Pahn711]

I swear it's like some of you are scared the earth will end if you don't bash BA.

Anything you say about BA you are also saying about Ben... they are one.

Continue bashing... Ben appreciates the hate. :stirpot

:Agree :tt1

Lots of troll sightings around here these days...

[steelz09]

Your not a troll because you disagree w/ others. That is what a discussion board is all about. People have their opinions.... and I personally think Arians is still garbage.

But you know... I'm a TROLL :)

[feltdizz]

Yeah, Ben really pissed me off when he cut Krieder and Kuhn, then got rid of the FB position for good around here.

..and Ben still loves BA and defends him every chance he gets.

All we hear is how great Ben is.. how elite he is... then these same fans turn around and act like Ben is some freaking baby in the corner slobbering on himself when it comes to game planning.

Ba and Ben came up with the playbook, they said so themselves.... so like I said, if the FB was cut out Ben had a hand in it.

[feltdizz]

Your not a troll because you disagree w/ others. That is what a discussion board is all about. People have their opinions.... and I personally think Arians is still garbage.

But you know... I'm a TROLL :)

Maybe BA is garbage but Ben had a thing for garbage every now and then.... 8)

If BA is garbage what does this say about Ben? He loves the guy.

[Pahn711]

Your not a troll because you disagree w/ others. That is what a discussion board is all about. People have their opinions.... and I personally think Arians is still garbage.

But you know... I'm a TROLL :)

I'm disagreeing with people who lack the perspective or rationality to understand that perhaps when it comes to running an offense, that sometimes its a crapshoot. And in turn, act like they themselves have the solutions and could do it better.

This is a troll thread to pander to backseat drivers, nothing more.

[hawaiiansteel]

sorry, I had nothing better to do so I'm just trolling...

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd279/jbitty29/Photoshop%20V2/arianswof.jpg

[BradshawsHairdresser]

Yeah, Ben really pissed me off when he cut Krieder and Kuhn, then got rid of the FB position for good around here.

Ben ticked me off when he decided we didn't need his buddy, Max Starks, and cut him from the team. Good thing Ben finally came to his senses and realized the OL needed Max to come back.

Ben also ticks me off when he gets into his predictable play-calling mode, as he so often does (1st down, RUTM; 2nd down, RUTM; 3rd down, long pass play).

[Djfan]

Your not a troll because you disagree w/ others. That is what a discussion board is all about. People have their opinions.... and I personally think Arians is still garbage.

But you know... I'm a TROLL :)

I'm disagreeing with people who lack the perspective or rationality to understand that perhaps when it comes to running an offense, that sometimes its a crapshoot. And in turn, act like they themselves have the solutions and could do it better.

This is a troll thread to pander to backseat drivers, nothing more.

You're right. How did I miss it for so long. BA is God!!! Woo Hoo. Agree with Pawn or you are stupid!!!!

[hawaiiansteel]

Yeah, Ben really pissed me off when he cut Krieder and Kuhn, then got rid of the FB position for good around here.

Ben ticked me off when he decided we didn't need his buddy, Max Starks, and cut him from the team. Good thing Ben finally came to his senses and realized the OL needed Max to come back.

Ben also ticks me off when he gets into his predictable play-calling mode, as he so often does (1st down, RUTM; 2nd down, RUTM; 3rd down, long pass play).

the maddest I've ever gotten at Ben was on Dec. 10, 2009.

on the coldest recorded night ever in Cleveland for a Browns-Steelers game, Ben called for 32 passing plays against the Cleveland Browns' 29th ranked run defense and got himself sacked eight times in a 13-6 loss to the Brownies.

what was Ben thinking that night?

[BURGH86STEEL]

Never understood why fans bring up the subject of adjustments having very little ground to stand on. No fans know when adjustments were or were not made. Any suggestions to plans a, b, or c will only be speculation. Same can be said for any team outside of the Steelers. That's because fans don't know the offenses or what coaches do outside of personnel changes. It would take knowledge of the offense and the ability to watch hours of game film to reach any conclusions about adjustments.

The adjustments are usually the execution by the players. Execution is something that can seen and discussed by the fans.

[Djfan]

Never understood why fans bring up the subject of adjustments having very little ground to stand on. No fans know when adjustments were or were not made. Any suggestions to plans a, b, or c will only be speculation. Same can be said for any team outside of the Steelers. That's because fans don't know the offenses or what coaches do outside of personnel changes. It would take knowledge of the offense and the ability to watch hours of game film to reach any conclusions about adjustments.

The adjustments are usually the execution by the players. Execution is something that can seen and discussed by the fans.


We can't understand or see or comment on the plays that were called? Man! This league has changed!

[pfelix73]

You can see certain adjustments- if you look closely-(sometimes watching the game a 2nd time helps)

For example: (and Wolfley touched on this the day after the game)

During the Texans game, they changed some of the blocking assingments up front- pretty much put Pouncey on a man-on man assignment and got some double teams with the OG's and OT's. They actually ran the ball better too. Also- thats when Redman/ Moore played more and they ran a handful of those traps to the right side.

That's just one example- sure there are others. You have to have a correctly called formation/play first- THEN execute it and see where the play goes from there. If you have a doomed play called you can try and execute it all you want and it still won't fukking work...


Sometimes BA calls some of these plays and not sure if Ben doesn't audible out of it correctly or what.. But some of them are doomed from the get go..

Just saying....

:tt1

[steelz09]

Never understood why fans bring up the subject of adjustments having very little ground to stand on. No fans know when adjustments were or were not made. Any suggestions to plans a, b, or c will only be speculation. Same can be said for any team outside of the Steelers. That's because fans don't know the offenses or what coaches do outside of personnel changes. It would take knowledge of the offense and the ability to watch hours of game film to reach any conclusions about adjustments.

The adjustments are usually the execution by the players. Execution is something that can seen and discussed by the fans.

Ummm..... I can tell if adjustments are being made simply by watching the game. If you re-watch it, it becomes even more clear.

[pfelix73]

:Agree

Just as I was saying earlier...

:tt1

[Pahn711]

Your not a troll because you disagree w/ others. That is what a discussion board is all about. People have their opinions.... and I personally think Arians is still garbage.

But you know... I'm a TROLL :)

I'm disagreeing with people who lack the perspective or rationality to understand that perhaps when it comes to running an offense, that sometimes its a crapshoot. And in turn, act like they themselves have the solutions and could do it better.

This is a troll thread to pander to backseat drivers, nothing more.

You're right. How did I miss it for so long. BA is God!!! Woo Hoo. Agree with Pawn or you are stupid!!!!

Pure, over-the-top exaggeration. Its as simple as that. BA is not an offensive powerhouse, but hes also not an incompetent fool like you guys try to make him out to be. Thats my point, why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't people accept that this is a competitive league and that some gameplans will work while others won't.

Like him or not, BA's offense has made enough plays to help the Steelers reach two Super Bowls. I don't know why that can be overlooked so easily. Its annoying when people continue to repeat the same negative accusations over and over with nothing new to add.

And dude, I didn't call anyone stupid. This is a fan forum, I expect to come here to disagree and argue with people, quit being so sensitive.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Never understood why fans bring up the subject of adjustments having very little ground to stand on. No fans know when adjustments were or were not made. Any suggestions to plans a, b, or c will only be speculation. Same can be said for any team outside of the Steelers. That's because fans don't know the offenses or what coaches do outside of personnel changes. It would take knowledge of the offense and the ability to watch hours of game film to reach any conclusions about adjustments.

The adjustments are usually the execution by the players. Execution is something that can seen and discussed by the fans.


We can't understand or see or comment on the plays that were called? Man! This league has changed!

Never said anyone couldn't comment on the plays there were called. There is a difference between judging play calling and knowing when the coaches made adjustments.

[BURGH86STEEL]

You can see certain adjustments- if you look closely-(sometimes watching the game a 2nd time helps)

For example: (and Wolfley touched on this the day after the game)

During the Texans game, they changed some of the blocking assingments up front- pretty much put Pouncey on a man-on man assignment and got some double teams with the OG's and OT's. They actually ran the ball better too. Also- thats when Redman/ Moore played more and they ran a handful of those traps to the right side.

That's just one example- sure there are others. You have to have a correctly called formation/play first- THEN execute it and see where the play goes from there. If you have a doomed play called you can try and execute it all you want and it still won't fukking work...


Sometimes BA calls some of these plays and not sure if Ben doesn't audible out of it correctly or what.. But some of them are doomed from the get go..

Just saying....

:tt1

Wolfley has an advantage that many fans don't. My point was that it's difficult for fans to determine if the coaches made adjustments based on a limited amount of knowledge.
Especially if it takes fans to watch the game a couple of times to realized the coaches made adjustments. Many fans don't bother watching games a 2nd time.

It would help to reach a conclusion if we had knowledge of the game plan. I agree, we don't know when plays were changed at the line. I agree, some plans are not going to work. They run those plays because they feel they can have success.

Based on what Wofley stated, I guess the coaches made/make adjustments. You should be questioning the very notion of this thread if you can see adjustments.

[Flasteel]

Never understood why fans bring up the subject of adjustments having very little ground to stand on. No fans know when adjustments were or were not made. Any suggestions to plans a, b, or c will only be speculation. Same can be said for any team outside of the Steelers. That's because fans don't know the offenses or what coaches do outside of personnel changes. It would take knowledge of the offense and the ability to watch hours of game film to reach any conclusions about adjustments.

The adjustments are usually the execution by the players. Execution is something that can seen and discussed by the fans.


We can't understand or see or comment on the plays that were called? Man! This league has changed!

Never said anyone couldn't comment on the plays there were called. There is a difference between judging play calling and knowing when the coaches made adjustments.

The play-calling is an adjustment. Burghsteel...face it, you just don't know that much about the game of football. You may think you do, but you don't.

Why don't you rattle off a few "adjustments" to a strong pass rush? How 'bout adjusting to the blitz, or a cover 2 defensive look? If you can, you will no doubt have many visible examples of these adjustments, to include what we call "plays".

Even though I coached high school football for many years, I'm not trying to pretend I know more about the game than BA, or even know the intricacies of our playbook...I don't. I know enough to see that BA does not deviate from his philosophies enough to adequately adjust to what defenses throw at him...at least not on any consistent basis.

Let's hope that he at least continues to mix in the quick passing gamem, as well as some of the other adjustments we saw on Sunday.

[Djfan]

Your not a troll because you disagree w/ others. That is what a discussion board is all about. People have their opinions.... and I personally think Arians is still garbage.

But you know... I'm a TROLL :)

I'm disagreeing with people who lack the perspective or rationality to understand that perhaps when it comes to running an offense, that sometimes its a crapshoot. And in turn, act like they themselves have the solutions and could do it better.

This is a troll thread to pander to backseat drivers, nothing more.

You're right. How did I miss it for so long. BA is God!!! Woo Hoo. Agree with Pawn or you are stupid!!!!

Pure, over-the-top exaggeration. Its as simple as that. BA is not an offensive powerhouse, but hes also not an incompetent fool like you guys try to make him out to be. Thats my point, why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't people accept that this is a competitive league and that some gameplans will work while others won't.

Like him or not, BA's offense has made enough plays to help the Steelers reach two Super Bowls. I don't know why that can be overlooked so easily. Its annoying when people continue to repeat the same negative accusations over and over with nothing new to add.

And dude, I didn't call anyone stupid. This is a fan forum, I expect to come here to disagree and argue with people, quit being so sensitive.

Not being sensitive. Pointing out the crazy. You're right. Not stupid. I think your word was "Troll." My apologies.

Just for the record, it is my conviction that it was a great defense, and an amazing ability of Ben's to make plays out of a big mess that made the SB s we went to.

His record can be so easily overlooked because he continues to put a scheme, call plays, get rid of good player, keep lame players, give strange quotes, etc. that all point out that he is not what this level of talent should have leading it.

Seems simple to me.

[ikestops85]

I must say that this is an interesting thread.

Let's go back to 2008. I don't know how many of you remember this but we got a reputation for making great adjustments to the game plan at the half. We were behind or even many times at half time and then we came out and won the game in the second half. Almost all of our games were nail biters but we managed to win the majority of them.

I have to say I am amazed at how some of you can tell all of the adjustments we make. I think it's fair to say announcers say we make adjustments when we don't move the ball in the beginning portion of the game and then all of a sudden we start to move the ball. Did we really make an adjustment or did we just execute better? Somebody please tell me how an average fan can tell the difference.

Unless I know what plays are called and what the blocking assignments are I can't fathom how we know what has changed. Many here are saying since Ben had a better game and we scored more that we called more 3 step drops and shorter patterns on passing plays. Really? You don't think we called those same type of plays in other games? You think our coaches are so STUPID that they never tried that before? Even if you believe Arians is a complete idiot do you think that badly of Mike Tomlin?

I'm not an Arians fan. I think we can do a lot better but to think he hasn't tried the obvious things pointed out on this board is ludicrous.

[RuthlessBurgher]

Your not a troll because you disagree w/ others. That is what a discussion board is all about. People have their opinions.... and I personally think Arians is still garbage.

But you know... I'm a TROLL :)

You better stop trolling your own board, or we might have to ban you. :wink:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-UxP0pJMG3jM/TlF5kywTcXI/AAAAAAAAPvQ/McO4Fqsl-68/s1600/troll+7.jpg

[feltdizz]

I must say that this is an interesting thread.

Let's go back to 2008. I don't know how many of you remember this but we got a reputation for making great adjustments to the game plan at the half. We were behind or even many times at half time and then we came out and won the game in the second half. Almost all of our games were nail biters but we managed to win the majority of them.

I have to say I am amazed at how some of you can tell all of the adjustments we make. I think it's fair to say announcers say we make adjustments when we don't move the ball in the beginning portion of the game and then all of a sudden we start to move the ball. Did we really make an adjustment or did we just execute better? Somebody please tell me how an average fan can tell the difference.

Unless I know what plays are called and what the blocking assignments are I can't fathom how we know what has changed. Many here are saying since Ben had a better game and we scored more that we called more 3 step drops and shorter patterns on passing plays. Really? You don't think we called those same type of plays in other games? You think our coaches are so STUPID that they never tried that before? Even if you believe Arians is a complete idiot do you think that badly of Mike Tomlin?

I'm not an Arians fan. I think we can do a lot better but to think he hasn't tried the obvious things pointed out on this board is ludicrous.

Excellent post... I think we have called 3 step drops and run short routes in other games. Drops, WR's HOT mistakes and the D jumping/disrupting routes all played a part. I would add Redman's hard 3 yards instead of Mend's -3 yards also helped last game.

Ben taking what the D gave was probably the biggest adjustment made last game.

This thread is crazy though... why don't we start a few Lebeau cushion, Hampton's fat and Ben holds the ball too long threads. :wink:

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

You folks with opposite viewpoints may be right that Ariens is just fine at making in-game adjustments. I can only say that what I have seen over the years makes me think otherwise. There are enough examples in this thread higher up to support that point, I don't think adding any more here would be that helpful.

Also, I don't think it's just fans on this board that have that opinion, I'm sure you've seen other boards with similar sentiments. And not that it makes it true, but some people who definitely know their stuff, like Marino (and maybe some of the Pittsburgh sports writers?) say pretty much the same thing.

And you gotta wonder why NOBODY rang him up to offer him a job as HC, or even OC with lots more money, despite his team's good record. I take that to mean that the people who know these things well think we won 2 SBs without a whole lot of help from our OC.

All that doesn't mean my impression that BA has real trouble being flexible in play calling is right, I'm just a guy with a Black and Gold T-shirt and Terrible Towel, and the DirectTV package - maybe your point of view is the right one. Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers by starting this post!

Thanks -

[Pahn711]

Not being sensitive. Pointing out the crazy. You're right. Not stupid. I think your word was "Troll." My apologies.

The definition of an internet troll is someone who "posts with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response." You mean to tell me it didn't accomplish that goal? I also did not call you out personally, you were the only one to take the bait.



Just for the record, it is my conviction that it was a great defense, and an amazing ability of Ben's to make plays out of a big mess that made the SB s we went to.

That is a popular stance and I don't wholly disagree, but to say the OC had no part in putting Ben in position to make plays doesn't seem realistic to me. Its like I always say, Arians will get the credit when something goes wrong, but when something goes right its gotta be someone else.



His record can be so easily overlooked because he continues to put a scheme, call plays, get rid of good player, keep lame players, give strange quotes, etc. that all point out that he is not what this level of talent should have leading it.


Who has he gotten rid of that was good AND was primarily his doing? Is Arians running the front office now? I dunno what strange quotes you are talking about, but you are gonna have to be more specific for me not to assume you are pulling this out of your :moon

[Leper Friend]

Pure, over-the-top exaggeration. Its as simple as that. BA is not an offensive powerhouse, but hes also not an incompetent fool like you guys try to make him out to be. Thats my point, why does it have to be one or the other? Why can't people accept that this is a competitive league and that some gameplans will work while others won't.


:Agree

I think for the most part , fans can hate on the OC just because it's natural while watching the game on some level , to have an opinion on what play call YOU would have done . If you have a play in mind and they run something different and it doesn't work , than alot of fans natural reaction is to think it was a "dumb" call. This makes every OC an easy target imo.

Nobody here has any idea how to come up with a gameplan. As fans , we can just second guess. Most complaints I hear about BA are very generic. -

"He runs up the middle too much" - I've seen plenty of traps , off tackles and sweeps. Running wide hardly works in the NFL anyway.

"too predictable" - Again , based on what ?Every OC has a gameplan based on the gamefilm of the defense that they have plays ready for every situation based on what they have seen on tape. Nobody here gets to study the opposing defense.

All that being said , I'm not a huge BA fan and there is plenty of things that he does that drive me crazy at times as well. But in general , every OC gets too much criticism because most fans think they know more than they actually do.

[Leper Friend]

Never understood why fans bring up the subject of adjustments having very little ground to stand on. No fans know when adjustments were or were not made. Any suggestions to plans a, b, or c will only be speculation. Same can be said for any team outside of the Steelers. That's because fans don't know the offenses or what coaches do outside of personnel changes. It would take knowledge of the offense and the ability to watch hours of game film to reach any conclusions about adjustments.

The adjustments are usually the execution by the players. Execution is something that can seen and discussed by the fans.


We can't understand or see or comment on the plays that were called? Man! This league has changed!

Never said anyone couldn't comment on the plays there were called. There is a difference between judging play calling and knowing when the coaches made adjustments.

The play-calling is an adjustment. Burghsteel...face it, you just don't know that much about the game of football. You may think you do, but you don't.

Why don't you rattle off a few "adjustments" to a strong pass rush? How 'bout adjusting to the blitz, or a cover 2 defensive look? If you can, you will no doubt have many visible examples of these adjustments, to include what we call "plays".

Even though I coached high school football for many years, I'm not trying to pretend I know more about the game than BA, or even know the intricacies of our playbook...I don't. I know enough to see that BA does not deviate from his philosophies enough to adequately adjust to what defenses throw at him...at least not on any consistent basis.

Let's hope that he at least continues to mix in the quick passing gamem, as well as some of the other adjustments we saw on Sunday.
The Colts game was a great example of not being able to adjust in game. Jonathon Scott was having one of the worst games I've ever seen at the tackle spot and there was no signs of giving him help. Very little tight end on his side , no RB chipping Freeney , no screens , no draws. It was embarassing.

I do agree that alot of adjusting the gameplan is subtle and not as noticeable and we can't say with 100% certainty that he wasn't adjusting but it didn't look like it.

[hawaiiansteel]

Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers by starting this post!


you are an internet troll who started this thread with the primary intent of provoking other trolls like me and DJ into an emotional response... :D

[Djfan]

DJ out. In search of rational communication instead.

[Flasteel]

I just read this on PFT and thought it was ironically funny. :Cheers

Bears will adjust offense to cover for offensive line
Posted by Josh Alper on October 14, 2011, 3:03 PM EDT

Earlier this week, Bears quarterback Jay Cutler said he was “uneasy” in the pocket because of the intense pressure he faces from opposing defenses.

Offensive coordinator Mike Martz is willing to change the offense to make life easier for Cutler. Martz said that the team will start calling more plays featuring quick throws so that Cutler isn’t a sitting duck. The changes should be implemented in time for Sunday’s game against Jared Allen and the Vikings.

“We’re working on it,’’ Martz said. ‘‘He’s absolutely right. We’ve talked about it as a staff, and we’ve addressed this issue.”

Martz said the team has been hampered by injuries to offensive linemen Gabe Carimi, Lance Louis and Chris Spencer and pointed to the offense’s strong game in the season opener when everyone was healthy as an example of the impact those injuries have had on the offense. The Bears will start their fifth different offensive line in six games this weekend when Louis takes over at right tackle and Spencer steps in at right guard.

While it is smart to adjust the offense to the personnel at hand, the Bears won’t truly solve these problems until they upgrade the talent in front of Cutler. Quick passes and rollouts that allow Cutler to evade pressure long enough to throw won’t be enough to cover all the problems created by leaky blocking.

[Pahn711]

DJ out. In search of rational communication instead.

Rational would mean you would have to back up your points with facts instead of just saying "Arians sucks!" (and explain why you think Arians is responsible for free agency moves). You obviously can't do that, keep searching DJ.



Didn't mean to ruffle any feathers by starting this post!


you are an internet troll who started this thread with the primary intent of provoking other trolls like me and DJ into an emotional response... :D

No, he provoked ME into an emotional response. But this is just one of many threads on the subject and I became fed up to the point of attack! :lol:

For me, this isn't just about Arians. Its about being fed up with the unrelenting negativity that fans cling to after just a few losses.

[AngryAsian]

I must say that this is an interesting thread.

Let's go back to 2008. I don't know how many of you remember this but we got a reputation for making great adjustments to the game plan at the half. We were behind or even many times at half time and then we came out and won the game in the second half. Almost all of our games were nail biters but we managed to win the majority of them.

I have to say I am amazed at how some of you can tell all of the adjustments we make. I think it's fair to say announcers say we make adjustments when we don't move the ball in the beginning portion of the game and then all of a sudden we start to move the ball. Did we really make an adjustment or did we just execute better? Somebody please tell me how an average fan can tell the difference.

Unless I know what plays are called and what the blocking assignments are I can't fathom how we know what has changed. Many here are saying since Ben had a better game and we scored more that we called more 3 step drops and shorter patterns on passing plays. Really? You don't think we called those same type of plays in other games? You think our coaches are so STUPID that they never tried that before? Even if you believe Arians is a complete idiot do you think that badly of Mike Tomlin?

I'm not an Arians fan. I think we can do a lot better but to think he hasn't tried the obvious things pointed out on this board is ludicrous.

Excellent post... I think we have called 3 step drops and run short routes in other games. Drops, WR's HOT mistakes and the D jumping/disrupting routes all played a part. I would add Redman's hard 3 yards instead of Mend's -3 yards also helped last game.

Ben taking what the D gave was probably the biggest adjustment made last game.

This thread is crazy though... why don't we start a few Lebeau cushion, Hampton's fat and Ben holds the ball too long threads. :wink:

Because someone started this topic... if you'd like to start a thread with one of your above noted subjects, then please do so... then we can discuss the short comings of our notable DC or our franchise QB's sticky fingers. Some general observations....

Commenting on the threads assuming that anybody who has the same opinion about our OC is a Troll and then is baffled by somewhat 'sensitive' responses is quite amusing.

The puzzling and yet extremely effective D!ck LeBeau defense of the 90's and 00's may not be the optimal defensive scheme to combat the high powered and NFL rule promoted, sink and dunk offenses... and if DL has tried to make adjustments in the past against these types (Patriots and Packers) ... it appears those adjustments weren't effective.

Ben absolutely should receive as much culpability with the offensive woes as BA... I don't think that Ben's self professed standpoint of 'not being a film-room guy' bodes well for his success on the field against the more top-tiered defenses.

Bottom line, we lose collectively... on certain weeks our O scores enough points to out gun the opposing team (Tennessee) and on others our D is abysmal and can't stop a thing (Baltimore). Pointing fingers and discussing them is the foundation of this board... and everybody can contribute as much as they want... free of censorship as long as board rules are adhered to. Trust me in that this forum is Troll-Free.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Never understood why fans bring up the subject of adjustments having very little ground to stand on. No fans know when adjustments were or were not made. Any suggestions to plans a, b, or c will only be speculation. Same can be said for any team outside of the Steelers. That's because fans don't know the offenses or what coaches do outside of personnel changes. It would take knowledge of the offense and the ability to watch hours of game film to reach any conclusions about adjustments.

The adjustments are usually the execution by the players. Execution is something that can seen and discussed by the fans.


We can't understand or see or comment on the plays that were called? Man! This league has changed!

Never said anyone couldn't comment on the plays there were called. There is a difference between judging play calling and knowing when the coaches made adjustments.

The play-calling is an adjustment. Burghsteel...face it, you just don't know that much about the game of football. You may think you do, but you don't.

Why don't you rattle off a few "adjustments" to a strong pass rush? How 'bout adjusting to the blitz, or a cover 2 defensive look? If you can, you will no doubt have many visible examples of these adjustments, to include what we call "plays".

Even though I coached high school football for many years, I'm not trying to pretend I know more about the game than BA, or even know the intricacies of our playbook...I don't. I know enough to see that BA does not deviate from his philosophies enough to adequately adjust to what defenses throw at him...at least not on any consistent basis.

Let's hope that he at least continues to mix in the quick passing gamem, as well as some of the other adjustments we saw on Sunday.
I can see you misunderstood my point. I understand that play calling can be an adjustment. Many fans wouldn't know most play calling adjustments just by watching the games. Especially, since no one knows the game plan or the intricacies of the offense. Some play calls may appear to be adjustments but might be in the game plan. There is a difference between judging the play calling and making adjustments. Fans often state, they hate certain play calls, formations ect. That's completely different then judging if the offense made adjustments. That's how I interpreted DJ's post.

I find it strange that a fan of the game attempts to insult another fan's intelligence regarding the game. Excuse me, what makes you such an expert? Just because we have opinions one way or another does not mean fans don't know much about the game of football. I know enough about the game to determine when I should have or should not have an opinion on subjects regarding the game.

Based on my years of watching and paying attention to this game, most coaches don't deviate much from their philosophies.

How can you state, "I'm not trying to pretend I know more about the game than BA, or even know the intricacies of our playbook...I don't. I know enough to see that BA does not deviate from his philosophies enough to adequately adjust to what defenses throw at him...at least not on any consistent basis" and then go on to suggest that he does not deviate enough without knowing the intricacies of the offense?

Since you feel I don't know much about the game, please don't respond to my posts again. Thanks.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Never understood why fans bring up the subject of adjustments having very little ground to stand on. No fans know when adjustments were or were not made. Any suggestions to plans a, b, or c will only be speculation. Same can be said for any team outside of the Steelers. That's because fans don't know the offenses or what coaches do outside of personnel changes. It would take knowledge of the offense and the ability to watch hours of game film to reach any conclusions about adjustments.

The adjustments are usually the execution by the players. Execution is something that can seen and discussed by the fans.


We can't understand or see or comment on the plays that were called? Man! This league has changed!

Never said anyone couldn't comment on the plays there were called. There is a difference between judging play calling and knowing when the coaches made adjustments.

The play-calling is an adjustment. Burghsteel...face it, you just don't know that much about the game of football. You may think you do, but you don't.

Why don't you rattle off a few "adjustments" to a strong pass rush? How 'bout adjusting to the blitz, or a cover 2 defensive look? If you can, you will no doubt have many visible examples of these adjustments, to include what we call "plays".

Even though I coached high school football for many years, I'm not trying to pretend I know more about the game than BA, or even know the intricacies of our playbook...I don't. I know enough to see that BA does not deviate from his philosophies enough to adequately adjust to what defenses throw at him...at least not on any consistent basis.

Let's hope that he at least continues to mix in the quick passing gamem, as well as some of the other adjustments we saw on Sunday.
The Colts game was a great example of not being able to adjust in game. Jonathon Scott was having one of the worst games I've ever seen at the tackle spot and there was no signs of giving him help. Very little tight end on his side , no RB chipping Freeney , no screens , no draws. It was embarassing.

I do agree that alot of adjusting the gameplan is subtle and not as noticeable and we can't say with 100% certainty that he wasn't adjusting but it didn't look like it.

Where you are incorrect is outside of one play, Scott had a good first half vs Freeney. I believe that play appeared to be the play Ben and Wallace changed without letting anyone else know. Appeared it was supposed to be a draw to Mendenhall. Scott let Freeny run up the field to allow Mendenhall to take advantage of Freeny's absence. Only the players and coaches know what really happened. I agree Scott had a bad 2nd half. Even in the 2nd half coaches gave Scott help. Obviously, they couldn't give him help every play.

It appeared the coaches designed plays to give Scott help in the first and second half. They lined up a TE on that side and had a RB chip in certain instances. They did some other things formation wise to help Scott. The designed some quick pass plays in an attempt to limit the Colt's pass rush.

This is exactly the kind of post that shows fans are limited in their analysis.

[BURGH86STEEL]

I must say that this is an interesting thread.

Let's go back to 2008. I don't know how many of you remember this but we got a reputation for making great adjustments to the game plan at the half. We were behind or even many times at half time and then we came out and won the game in the second half. Almost all of our games were nail biters but we managed to win the majority of them.

I have to say I am amazed at how some of you can tell all of the adjustments we make. I think it's fair to say announcers say we make adjustments when we don't move the ball in the beginning portion of the game and then all of a sudden we start to move the ball. Did we really make an adjustment or did we just execute better? Somebody please tell me how an average fan can tell the difference.

Unless I know what plays are called and what the blocking assignments are I can't fathom how we know what has changed. Many here are saying since Ben had a better game and we scored more that we called more 3 step drops and shorter patterns on passing plays. Really? You don't think we called those same type of plays in other games? You think our coaches are so STUPID that they never tried that before? Even if you believe Arians is a complete idiot do you think that badly of Mike Tomlin?

I'm not an Arians fan. I think we can do a lot better but to think he hasn't tried the obvious things pointed out on this board is ludicrous.
Some fans based their opinions on the "issues" without rewatching the games. Very difficult to put the entire picture together watching the game live. That's why coaches and players review game film. Appears to me that execution was at fault more then any other factor.

Some adjustments may not be adjustments but part of the game plan. Sometimes adjustments don't work because the other team's coaches & players get paid. Fans don't usually like to acknowledge the other players or coaches.

The next OC won't know what he's doing on several levels when Arians goes. Many play calls will be questioned, play calls will be predictable, no in game adjustments, ect ect ect. I only know that because that's been the theme from fans for Steelers OC's over the years. The funny thing is, negative opinions of OC's is not limited to the Steeler fan base. In most cases, it boils down to the players OC's coach. It's why I choose to focus my attention to where it really matters, the execution of the players.

[Flasteel]

Never understood why fans bring up the subject of adjustments having very little ground to stand on. No fans know when adjustments were or were not made. Any suggestions to plans a, b, or c will only be speculation. Same can be said for any team outside of the Steelers. That's because fans don't know the offenses or what coaches do outside of personnel changes. It would take knowledge of the offense and the ability to watch hours of game film to reach any conclusions about adjustments.

The adjustments are usually the execution by the players. Execution is something that can seen and discussed by the fans.


We can't understand or see or comment on the plays that were called? Man! This league has changed!

Never said anyone couldn't comment on the plays there were called. There is a difference between judging play calling and knowing when the coaches made adjustments.

The play-calling is an adjustment. Burghsteel...face it, you just don't know that much about the game of football. You may think you do, but you don't.

Why don't you rattle off a few "adjustments" to a strong pass rush? How 'bout adjusting to the blitz, or a cover 2 defensive look? If you can, you will no doubt have many visible examples of these adjustments, to include what we call "plays".

Even though I coached high school football for many years, I'm not trying to pretend I know more about the game than BA, or even know the intricacies of our playbook...I don't. I know enough to see that BA does not deviate from his philosophies enough to adequately adjust to what defenses throw at him...at least not on any consistent basis.

Let's hope that he at least continues to mix in the quick passing gamem, as well as some of the other adjustments we saw on Sunday.
I can see you misunderstood my point. I understand that play calling can be an adjustment. Many fans wouldn't know most play calling adjustments just by watching the games. Especially, since no one knows the game plan or the intricacies of the offense. Some play calls may appear to be adjustments but might be in the game plan. There is a difference between judging the play calling and making adjustments. Fans often state, they hate certain play calls, formations ect. That's completely different then judging if the offense made adjustments. That's how I interpreted DJ's post.

I find it strange that a fan of the game attempts to insult another fan's intelligence regarding the game. Excuse me, what makes you such an expert? Just because we have opinions one way or another does not mean fans don't know much about the game of football. I know enough about the game to determine when I should have or should not have an opinion on subjects regarding the game.

Based on my years of watching and paying attention to this game, most coaches don't deviate much from their philosophies.

How can you state, "I'm not trying to pretend I know more about the game than BA, or even know the intricacies of our playbook...I don't. I know enough to see that BA does not deviate from his philosophies enough to adequately adjust to what defenses throw at him...at least not on any consistent basis" and then go on to suggest that he does not deviate enough without knowing the intricacies of the offense?

Since you feel I don't know much about the game, please don't respond to my posts again. Thanks.

I'll respond to whatever I feel like Burgh and if you continue to make absurd statements, I'll call you on it.

You don't need to know a team's playbook or know more about the game than the OC to see that basic, common adjustments are not taking place with this offense. When they did happen on Sunday, it was obvious (again, the screens, draws, misdirection and quick passes) and it was successful. We agree that the execution was there, but what you fail to acknowledge is that there is a whole lot more going on in terms of the play-calling.

Play-calling and the game plan are adjustments dude. I get the topic of this thread is about in-game adjustments, but adjustments in general are not restricted to in-game adaptations you make when your game plan isn't working. It doesn't matter if the tactics in question are a result of decisions made during a game or as a part of the game plan coming in...they aren't getting done.

You say we as fans don't understand them, or can't see them and you are simply wrong. There may be things going on that BA and the offense are attempting to do that we don't see from our spot on the couch...true. However, the obvious things any coach should be doing to deal with pressure have not been incorporated in our offense on any consistent basis. How you fail to grasp this amazes me.

The comment about you not knowing anything about the game may have been over the top, but you can't make statements like "it's too difficult to change offensive schemes in the middle of the season" or "no fans know when adjustments were or were not made" are simply clueless. It would be one thing if you were attempting to frame your opinion as some type of possible explanation, but you are using it instead as a basis of fact from which all criticism of our OC is unwarranted.

You're a pretty good dude and I don't mean to be a dick about this, but I'm going to call it like I see it.

[Leper Friend]

The play-calling is an adjustment. Burghsteel...face it, you just don't know that much about the game of football. You may think you do, but you don't.

Why don't you rattle off a few "adjustments" to a strong pass rush? How 'bout adjusting to the blitz, or a cover 2 defensive look? If you can, you will no doubt have many visible examples of these adjustments, to include what we call "plays".

Even though I coached high school football for many years, I'm not trying to pretend I know more about the game than BA, or even know the intricacies of our playbook...I don't. I know enough to see that BA does not deviate from his philosophies enough to adequately adjust to what defenses throw at him...at least not on any consistent basis.

Let's hope that he at least continues to mix in the quick passing gamem, as well as some of the other adjustments we saw on Sunday.
The Colts game was a great example of not being able to adjust in game. Jonathon Scott was having one of the worst games I've ever seen at the tackle spot and there was no signs of giving him help. Very little tight end on his side , no RB chipping Freeney , no screens , no draws. It was embarassing.

I do agree that alot of adjusting the gameplan is subtle and not as noticeable and we can't say with 100% certainty that he wasn't adjusting but it didn't look like it.[/quote]

Where you are incorrect is outside of one play, Scott had a good first half vs Freeney. I believe that play appeared to be the play Ben and Wallace changed without letting anyone else know. Appeared it was supposed to be a draw to Mendenhall. Scott let Freeny run up the field to allow Mendenhall to take advantage of Freeny's absence. Only the players and coaches know what really happened. I agree Scott had a bad 2nd half. Even in the 2nd half coaches gave Scott help. Obviously, they couldn't give him help every play.

It appeared the coaches designed plays to give Scott help in the first and second half. They lined up a TE on that side and had a RB chip in certain instances. They did some other things formation wise to help Scott. The designed some quick pass plays in an attempt to limit the Colt's pass rush.

This is exactly the kind of post that shows fans are limited in their analysis.[/quote]
That's great , execpt none of that actually happened. Do you really want to show how limited football knowledge you have ? I rewatched the Colts game and again , slower this time -

NO draws

No screens

Scott barely had help

That is all fact. I can't debate with someone who actually watched the game and sees stuff that wasn't there.

You are completely making stuff up. Since you hate hitting anyway , which you have stated , you probably were looking away most of the game.You just throw out generic phrases and cliches that you learned from Mike Tomlin press conferences aNd that's how you respond to everyone.

So again , Freeney was disrupting the whole flow of the offense from the 2nd quarter on. The offense did NOTHING to adjust to that. If making up things helps you prove your point , then so be it , you win.

[Leper Friend]

You say we as fans don't understand them, or can't see them and you are simply wrong. There may be things going on that BA and the offense are attempting to do that we don't see from our spot on the couch...true. However, the obvious things any coach should be doing to deal with pressure have not been incorporated in our offense on any consistent basis. How you fail to grasp this amazes me.

The comment about you not knowing anything about the game may have been over the top, but you can't make statements like "it's too difficult to change offensive schemes in the middle of the season" or "no fans know when adjustments were or were not made" are simply clueless. It would be one thing if you were attempting to frame your opinion as some type of possible explanation, but you are using it instead as a basis of fact from which all criticism of our OC is unwarranted.

Everything he posts is generic comments with no examples of anything. H'ell respond to you like some weird Mike Tomlin cliche machine.You are 1000% correct about just even the basic premises of protecting a QB that anyone can see is consistently ignored. But somehow , Burghsteel sees stuff that everyone elses doesn't.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Never said anyone couldn't comment on the plays there were called. There is a difference between judging play calling and knowing when the coaches made adjustments.

The play-calling is an adjustment. Burghsteel...face it, you just don't know that much about the game of football. You may think you do, but you don't.

Why don't you rattle off a few "adjustments" to a strong pass rush? How 'bout adjusting to the blitz, or a cover 2 defensive look? If you can, you will no doubt have many visible examples of these adjustments, to include what we call "plays".

Even though I coached high school football for many years, I'm not trying to pretend I know more about the game than BA, or even know the intricacies of our playbook...I don't. I know enough to see that BA does not deviate from his philosophies enough to adequately adjust to what defenses throw at him...at least not on any consistent basis.

Let's hope that he at least continues to mix in the quick passing gamem, as well as some of the other adjustments we saw on Sunday.
I can see you misunderstood my point. I understand that play calling can be an adjustment. Many fans wouldn't know most play calling adjustments just by watching the games. Especially, since no one knows the game plan or the intricacies of the offense. Some play calls may appear to be adjustments but might be in the game plan. There is a difference between judging the play calling and making adjustments. Fans often state, they hate certain play calls, formations ect. That's completely different then judging if the offense made adjustments. That's how I interpreted DJ's post.

I find it strange that a fan of the game attempts to insult another fan's intelligence regarding the game. Excuse me, what makes you such an expert? Just because we have opinions one way or another does not mean fans don't know much about the game of football. I know enough about the game to determine when I should have or should not have an opinion on subjects regarding the game.

Based on my years of watching and paying attention to this game, most coaches don't deviate much from their philosophies.

How can you state, "I'm not trying to pretend I know more about the game than BA, or even know the intricacies of our playbook...I don't. I know enough to see that BA does not deviate from his philosophies enough to adequately adjust to what defenses throw at him...at least not on any consistent basis" and then go on to suggest that he does not deviate enough without knowing the intricacies of the offense?

Since you feel I don't know much about the game, please don't respond to my posts again. Thanks.

I'll respond to whatever I feel like Burgh and if you continue to make absurd statements, I'll call you on it.

You don't need to know a team's playbook or know more about the game than the OC to see that basic, common adjustments are not taking place with this offense. When they did happen on Sunday, it was obvious (again, the screens, draws, misdirection and quick passes) and it was successful. We agree that the execution was there, but what you fail to acknowledge is that there is a whole lot more going on in terms of the play-calling.

Can you provide any proof that adjustments don't take place? It's more absurd to suggest adjustments don't take place. It's not like the offense never ran screens, draws, misdirection plays, or quick passes in previous games. What was evident on Sunday was that Ben decided to change the way he played the game. All those plays were successful because the players executed.

Play-calling and the game plan are adjustments dude. I get the topic of this thread is about in-game adjustments, but adjustments in general are not restricted to in-game adaptations you make when your game plan isn't working. It doesn't matter if the tactics in question are a result of decisions made during a game or as a part of the game plan coming in...they aren't getting done.

Provide solid evidence that adjustments aren't getting done on a consistent basis.

You say we as fans don't understand them, or can't see them and you are simply wrong. There may be things going on that BA and the offense are attempting to do that we don't see from our spot on the couch...true. However, the obvious things any coach should be doing to deal with pressure have not been incorporated in our offense on any consistent basis. How you fail to grasp this amazes me.


I don't fail to grasp anything. Seems you fail to grasp that I believe in execution over play calling. I believe execution is where most of the break downs occur. I believe execution is where games are won and loss. I don't believe most break downs occur because of poor play calling. Just so happens that I agree with the people that actually do the job and happen to play the games. It's because I've payed attention over the years to what those people state. "We didn't execute" Players and coaches make statements regarding execution for a reason. The coaches themselves could point out the things they've done to adjust but you still wouldn't believe. That's because it appears you have a low opinion of our coaches.

The comment about you not knowing anything about the game may have been over the top, but you can't make statements like "it's too difficult to change offensive schemes in the middle of the season" or "no fans know when adjustments were or were not made" are simply clueless. It would be one thing if you were attempting to frame your opinion as some type of possible explanation, but you are using it instead as a basis of fact from which all criticism of our OC is unwarranted.

I can make any statements I choose. Correct or incorrect, it's my opinion. I believe it's difficult to make whole sale scheme changes in the middle of a season. Can you point out one team that's ever made that kind of change? Like I pointed out, adjustments could be part of the game plan. Adjustments don't have any chance to succeed if the players don't execute. It's your problem if you took what I wrote as fact. People can criticize the OC, Tomlin, or Lebeau if they want. I like to point out that they should be placing their focus on how the players execute before bringing their focus to the coaches. You don't have to agree with my opinion.

You're a pretty good dude and I don't mean to be a dick about this, but I'm going to call it like I see it.

[Flasteel]

Never said anyone couldn't comment on the plays there were called. There is a difference between judging play calling and knowing when the coaches made adjustments.

The play-calling is an adjustment. Burghsteel...face it, you just don't know that much about the game of football. You may think you do, but you don't.

Why don't you rattle off a few "adjustments" to a strong pass rush? How 'bout adjusting to the blitz, or a cover 2 defensive look? If you can, you will no doubt have many visible examples of these adjustments, to include what we call "plays".

Even though I coached high school football for many years, I'm not trying to pretend I know more about the game than BA, or even know the intricacies of our playbook...I don't. I know enough to see that BA does not deviate from his philosophies enough to adequately adjust to what defenses throw at him...at least not on any consistent basis.

Let's hope that he at least continues to mix in the quick passing gamem, as well as some of the other adjustments we saw on Sunday.
I can see you misunderstood my point. I understand that play calling can be an adjustment. Many fans wouldn't know most play calling adjustments just by watching the games. Especially, since no one knows the game plan or the intricacies of the offense. Some play calls may appear to be adjustments but might be in the game plan. There is a difference between judging the play calling and making adjustments. Fans often state, they hate certain play calls, formations ect. That's completely different then judging if the offense made adjustments. That's how I interpreted DJ's post.

I find it strange that a fan of the game attempts to insult another fan's intelligence regarding the game. Excuse me, what makes you such an expert? Just because we have opinions one way or another does not mean fans don't know much about the game of football. I know enough about the game to determine when I should have or should not have an opinion on subjects regarding the game.

Based on my years of watching and paying attention to this game, most coaches don't deviate much from their philosophies.

How can you state, "I'm not trying to pretend I know more about the game than BA, or even know the intricacies of our playbook...I don't. I know enough to see that BA does not deviate from his philosophies enough to adequately adjust to what defenses throw at him...at least not on any consistent basis" and then go on to suggest that he does not deviate enough without knowing the intricacies of the offense?

Since you feel I don't know much about the game, please don't respond to my posts again. Thanks.

I'll respond to whatever I feel like Burgh and if you continue to make absurd statements, I'll call you on it.

You don't need to know a team's playbook or know more about the game than the OC to see that basic, common adjustments are not taking place with this offense. When they did happen on Sunday, it was obvious (again, the screens, draws, misdirection and quick passes) and it was successful. We agree that the execution was there, but what you fail to acknowledge is that there is a whole lot more going on in terms of the play-calling.

Can you provide any proof that adjustments don't take place? It's more absurd to suggest adjustments don't take place. It's not like the offense never ran screens, draws, misdirection plays, or quick passes in previous games. What was evident on Sunday was that Ben decided to change the way he played the game. All those plays were successful because the players executed.

Play-calling and the game plan are adjustments dude. I get the topic of this thread is about in-game adjustments, but adjustments in general are not restricted to in-game adaptations you make when your game plan isn't working. It doesn't matter if the tactics in question are a result of decisions made during a game or as a part of the game plan coming in...they aren't getting done.

Provide solid evidence that adjustments aren't getting done on a consistent basis.

You say we as fans don't understand them, or can't see them and you are simply wrong. There may be things going on that BA and the offense are attempting to do that we don't see from our spot on the couch...true. However, the obvious things any coach should be doing to deal with pressure have not been incorporated in our offense on any consistent basis. How you fail to grasp this amazes me.


I don't fail to grasp anything. Seems you fail to grasp that I believe in execution over play calling. I believe execution is where most of the break downs occur. I believe execution is where games are won and loss. I don't believe most break downs occur because of poor play calling. Just so happens that I agree with the people that actually do the job and happen to play the games. It's because I've payed attention over the years to what those people state. "We didn't execute" Players and coaches make statements regarding execution for a reason. The coaches themselves could point out the things they've done to adjust but you still wouldn't believe. That's because it appears you have a low opinion of our coaches.

The comment about you not knowing anything about the game may have been over the top, but you can't make statements like "it's too difficult to change offensive schemes in the middle of the season" or "no fans know when adjustments were or were not made" are simply clueless. It would be one thing if you were attempting to frame your opinion as some type of possible explanation, but you are using it instead as a basis of fact from which all criticism of our OC is unwarranted.

I can make any statements I choose. Correct or incorrect, it's my opinion. I believe it's difficult to make whole sale scheme changes in the middle of a season. Can you point out one team that's ever made that kind of change? Like I pointed out, adjustments could be part of the game plan. Adjustments don't have any chance to succeed if the players don't execute. It's your problem if you took what I wrote as fact. People can criticize the OC, Tomlin, or Lebeau if they want. I like to point out that they should be placing their focus on how the players execute before bringing their focus to the coaches. You don't have to agree with my opinion.

You're a pretty good dude and I don't mean to be a dick about this, but I'm going to call it like I see it.

Nobody is or has been arguing that play-calling is more important than execution, so don't try and twist anything. Your football IQ is so low, you should receive some type of government check each month. I'm done debating this with you. :tt2

[Leper Friend]

[I can make any statements I choose. Correct or incorrect, it's my opinion.
It's not an opinion when it's FACTUALLY wrong.You blindly stated that the Steelers did run screens and draws and gave Scott help on Freeney when it's simply not true.

You're not giving opinions , you're just making things up.For the 3rd time - I watched the Colts game for that reason exactly - how did Freeney have so much success.

They ran no draws. They ran no screens. Scott barely had help. That is all FACT.

So please stop making stuff up admit you know nothing.

[BURGH86STEEL]

[I can make any statements I choose. Correct or incorrect, it's my opinion.
It's not an opinion when it's FACTUALLY wrong.You blindly stated that the Steelers did run screens and draws and gave Scott help on Freeney when it's simply not true.

You're not giving opinions , you're just making things up.For the 3rd time - I watched the Colts game for that reason exactly - how did Freeney have so much success.

They ran no draws. They ran no screens. Scott barely had help. That is all FACT.

So please stop making stuff up admit you know nothing.

I did not blindly state anything.

3rd and 8 on the Steelers first drive- Miller lined up on Scotts SIDE to help with Freeny. Ben threw a perfect pass to Sanders. Sanders dropped the ball inside the 10 yard line. Execution stopped a good drive. Steelers settled for FG. That play was one example where they provided Scott with help. There were other plays where they gave Scott help.

1st QT at the 1:09 mark the Steelers ran a draw to Mendenhall. Johnson had a difficult time finding Angerer due to the way Angerer attacked the play. Poor execution by Johnson or a great play by Angerer? You decide.

2nd QT (14:15) - bubble screen to Ward. play after the screen bubble they lined Miller up on Scotts side to chip Freeny. The Steelers also did some things formation wise to help both the tackles deal with both Freeny and Mathis.

2nd QT (14:57) - Screen on the left side to Mendenhall. Miller didn't execute his block vs the CB or did Powers make a great play to slow Mendenhall? You decide. That play had a chance if Miller executed his block properly.

If we go through all the games and watched without the intention of trashing the coaches, we will see that poor execution was the reason that most plays fail. Sometimes, the other team's guys make great plays.

[Pahn711]

Commenting on the threads assuming that anybody who has the same opinion about our OC is a Troll and then is baffled by somewhat 'sensitive' responses is quite amusing.


Whatever dude, theres been dozens of threads about Arians and probably hundreds of posts, why another one needed to be started with the same "Arians sucks" theme is beyond me. It goes WAY beyond having an opinion, its become an ideology that gets repeated over and over in posts.

I didn't call anyone out specifically for being a troll, except maybe implying that the original poster was being one for starting this, but he didn't get offended and jump to conclusions, it was some other dude who I wasn't talking to.

I'll go back to ignoring the Arians-bashing and in general Steelers-hating hyperbole, which severely cuts the viewable threads in half, but oh well.

[Leper Friend]

[I can make any statements I choose. Correct or incorrect, it's my opinion.
It's not an opinion when it's FACTUALLY wrong.You blindly stated that the Steelers did run screens and draws and gave Scott help on Freeney when it's simply not true.

You're not giving opinions , you're just making things up.For the 3rd time - I watched the Colts game for that reason exactly - how did Freeney have so much success.

They ran no draws. They ran no screens. Scott barely had help. That is all FACT.

So please stop making stuff up admit you know nothing.

I did not blindly state anything.

3rd and 8 on the Steelers first drive- Miller lined up on Scotts SIDE to help with Freeny. Ben threw a perfect pass to Sanders. Sanders dropped the ball inside the 10 yard line. Execution stopped a good drive. Steelers settled for FG. That play was one example where they provided Scott with help. There were other plays where they gave Scott help.

1st QT at the 1:09 mark the Steelers ran a draw to Mendenhall. Johnson had a difficult time finding Angerer due to the way Angerer attacked the play. Poor execution by Johnson or a great play by Angerer? You decide.

2nd QT (14:15) - bubble screen to Ward. play after the screen bubble they lined Miller up on Scotts side to chip Freeny. The Steelers also did some things formation wise to help both the tackles deal with both Freeny and Mathis.

2nd QT (14:57) - Screen on the left side to Mendenhall. Miller didn't execute his block vs the CB or did Powers make a great play to slow Mendenhall? You decide. That play had a chance if Miller executed his block properly.

If we go through all the games and watched without the intention of trashing the coaches, we will see that poor execution was the reason that most plays fail. Sometimes, the other team's guys make great plays.
This thread is about in game adjustments. You are talking about plays early in the game that would have been part of the weeks gameplan. 2 different things.

And for the last time , because this isn't even debateable , everything I stated is true. I wanted to know why Freeney had such a great second half. I watched the game a second time for that specific reason.

No draws

No screens

Scott barely had help

I wanted to know what they did to slow down that pass rush and they simply did nothing.

[feltdizz]

Freeney had a great game because Freeney is a great player. The Colts were at home, the place is loud and we are snapping the ball with 1 second on the clock... and our OL played awful.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Freeney had a great game because Freeney is a great player. The Colts were at home, the place is loud and we are snapping the ball with 1 second on the clock... and our OL played awful.

People have it in their minds that Arians sucks regardless of how the players perform. Now, I don't believe Arians is the greatest. However, he not as incompetent as people like to point out. As soon as people disagree with play calls, formations, believing there are no in game adjustments, lack of a FB, ect ect, the same way of thinking and complaints will carry over to the next OC.

[Steelers>NFL]

Freeney had a great game because Freeney is a great player. The Colts were at home, the place is loud and we are snapping the ball with 1 second on the clock... and our OL played awful.


Exactly...

[Flasteel]

Freeney had a great game because Freeney is a great player. The Colts were at home, the place is loud and we are snapping the ball with 1 second on the clock... and our OL played awful.

You're exactly right dizz...that was a bad match-up for us from the word go. J. Scott would have had to have the game of his life to win that battle with Freeney 1 on 1. With Mathis on the other side, matched-up with a rookie, the problem only gets worse.

This is precisely the type of situation which can illustrate the point many of us are making about Arians. We should have looked at that match-up - as well as the subpar performance along the line to that point - and adjusted our game plan accordingly.

You've got a couple of guys in this thread who claim to have gone back and looked for these adjustments, and we have two slightly different versions of what actually took place. I'm both too lazy and busy to go back and watch it myself to verify either side, but I can say for certain that any adjustments made to our game plan were sporadic and did not take advantage of several tools available to us.

The central focus of how we attacked Indianapolis should have resembled what we saw last week. Deliberate quick passes, where the primary read is within that 5-10 yard range, screens, draws, misdirection...in other words, a multitude of tactics designed to negate those one-n-one match-up disasters we were facing. If you keep a back in to chip, or line-up the tight end to help out J. Scott, then you still have a problem blocking the other end. I know we mixed in some of this, but it wasn't employed that frequently and we certainly needed more. At a minimum, we should have been ready to bring it out of the bag as soon as things went south.

Why did we have to wait until week 5 to see this stuff? :HeadBanger

I love what BA put together last week and the players executed it to near perfection. Let's just hope BA feels comfortable in calling on this type of attack (along with the no-huddle :D ) when we need it moving forward.

[hawaiiansteel]

this game once again proved that a leopard can't change its spots...

Arians virtually forgot all about the short, quick passing game and called way too many long passing plays.

Ben was not on today, why not let him try to re-gain his rhythm with some easier throws?

[BURGH86STEEL]

this game once again proved that a leopard can't change its spots...

Arians virtually forgot all about the short, quick passing game and called way too many long passing plays.

Ben was not on today, why not let him try to re-gain his rhythm with some easier throws?

Were the WR's open?

Did you notice that there were shorter options when Ben took shots down field?

I saw that the WR's were open deep. Ben didn't execute the throws. This is what I mean when I suggest that fans should at least take a peak at how the players perform before fans blame the coaches. If the WR's were open, the coaches made the right call. The players didn't execute on those play calls. This is where people fail when blaming the coaches for player's poor execution. Ben gets paid a lot of money to make those throws.

A win is a win and I am happy for a win.

[hawaiiansteel]

this game once again proved that a leopard can't change its spots...

Arians virtually forgot all about the short, quick passing game and called way too many long passing plays.

Ben was not on today, why not let him try to re-gain his rhythm with some easier throws?

Were the WR's open?

Did you notice that there were shorter options when Ben took shots down field?

I saw that the WR's were open deep. Ben didn't execute the throws. This is what I mean when I suggest that fans should at least take a peak at how the players perform before fans blame the coaches. If the WR's were open, the coaches made the right call. The players didn't execute on those play calls. This is where people fail when blaming the coaches for player's poor execution. Ben gets paid a lot of money to make those throws.

A win is a win and I am happy for a win.


did you notice where I stated that Ben was not on today before you started your rant?

[BURGH86STEEL]

this game once again proved that a leopard can't change its spots...

Arians virtually forgot all about the short, quick passing game and called way too many long passing plays.

Ben was not on today, why not let him try to re-gain his rhythm with some easier throws?

Were the WR's open?

Did you notice that there were shorter options when Ben took shots down field?

I saw that the WR's were open deep. Ben didn't execute the throws. This is what I mean when I suggest that fans should at least take a peak at how the players perform before fans blame the coaches. If the WR's were open, the coaches made the right call. The players didn't execute on those play calls. This is where people fail when blaming the coaches for player's poor execution. Ben gets paid a lot of money to make those throws.

A win is a win and I am happy for a win.


did you notice where I stated that Ben was not on today before you started your rant?
Did you notice that Ben played well in the first half?

[hawaiiansteel]

this game once again proved that a leopard can't change its spots...

Arians virtually forgot all about the short, quick passing game and called way too many long passing plays.

Ben was not on today, why not let him try to re-gain his rhythm with some easier throws?

Were the WR's open?

Did you notice that there were shorter options when Ben took shots down field?

I saw that the WR's were open deep. Ben didn't execute the throws. This is what I mean when I suggest that fans should at least take a peak at how the players perform before fans blame the coaches. If the WR's were open, the coaches made the right call. The players didn't execute on those play calls. This is where people fail when blaming the coaches for player's poor execution. Ben gets paid a lot of money to make those throws.

A win is a win and I am happy for a win.


did you notice where I stated that Ben was not on today before you started your rant?
Did you notice that Ben played well in the first half?


did you notice that we scored no points in the second half?

[BURGH86STEEL]

What do you suggest the coaches do if their best offensive player is off his game?

I believe that if Ben isn't making the reads or the throws, there's not much the coaches can do. Especially, when the run game was being contained.

I also believe that the Jags had something to do with some of the offenses struggles in the second half. It didn't help that the Jags offense controlled the ball for most of the 3rd QT because of a penalty committed by the players.

[hawaiiansteel]

What do you suggest the coaches do if their best offensive player is off his game?



this brings me back to the original point I was attempting to make, that Arians should have noticed Ben was not making the throws in the second half and should have called for shorter, quicker 3-step drop passes that worked so well last week against the Titans.

[BURGH86STEEL]

What do you suggest the coaches do if their best offensive player is off his game?



this brings me back to the original point I was attempting to make, that Arians should have noticed Ben was not making the throws in the second half and should have called for shorter, quicker 3-step drop passes that worked so well last week against the Titans.
I feel that a QB really needs to be on his game to execute those quick 3 step drops. Possibly, even more so then the plays that take more seconds to develop. Those passes worked so well vs the Titans because Ben played well. I believe offensive success hinges on how well Ben performs.

[hawaiiansteel]

What do you suggest the coaches do if their best offensive player is off his game?



this brings me back to the original point I was attempting to make, that Arians should have noticed Ben was not making the throws in the second half and should have called for shorter, quicker 3-step drop passes that worked so well last week against the Titans.
I feel that a QB really needs to be on his game to execute those quick 3 step drops. Possibly, even more so then the plays that take more seconds to develop. Those passes worked so well vs the Titans because Ben played well. I believe offensive success hinges on how well Ben performs.


I understand your point, if Ben completes those long passes then we're not having this conversation.

[pittpete]

Wow that 3rd down playcall on the last drive was a BA fn special :stirpot

[hawaiiansteel]

Wow that 3rd down playcall on the last drive was a BA fn special :stirpot

I have no idea whatsoever what that play call was and it didn't look like any of the Steelers offensive players that were on the field did either.

[grotonsteel]

What do you suggest the coaches do if their best offensive player is off his game?



this brings me back to the original point I was attempting to make, that Arians should have noticed Ben was not making the throws in the second half and should have called for shorter, quicker 3-step drop passes that worked so well last week against the Titans.
I feel that a QB really needs to be on his game to execute those quick 3 step drops. Possibly, even more so then the plays that take more seconds to develop. Those passes worked so well vs the Titans because Ben played well. I believe offensive success hinges on how well Ben performs.


I understand your point, if Ben completes those long passes then we're not having this conversation.

+1

I still believe manny and ben are not on the same page.

[Flasteel]

Wow that 3rd down playcall on the last drive was a BA fn special :stirpot

I have no idea whatsoever what that play call was and it didn't look like any of the Steelers offensive players that were on the field did either.

It was the same old 5-step drop BS that BA can't seem to stay away from. 3rd down and 4...WTF!? Actually, I think he was in the shotgun but still...get the damn ball out quick!

[feltdizz]

I missed the second half but it sounds like anytime Ben is on it's him and anytime he is off it's Arians.

If Ben wasn't on and they were jumping the underneath stuff what can you do? In the NFL what works one week surely won't be there next week. If Ben wasn't on its hard to blame the OC or head coach for his play.

[feltdizz]

Also need to add the Jags have always been a thorn in our backsides. Someone wrote that we would have put up 35 if the deep passs were better. Whay can you do? Some days you click and some days you miss.

Didn't we win? :wink:

[hawaiiansteel]

If Ben wasn't on its hard to blame the OC or head coach for his play.


let's say this is basketball...

if your player keeps missing all of his outside shots in the second half, as a coach do you keep drawing up plays for your player to shoot more outside jump shots or should you consider another option perhaps?

[papillon]

If Ben wasn't on its hard to blame the OC or head coach for his play.


let's say this is basketball...

if your player keeps missing all of his outside shots in the second half, as a coach do you keep drawing up plays for your player to shoot more outside jump shots or should you consider another option perhaps?

If the player that is missing the shots is your best jump shooter, you keep drawing up the plays and letting him shoot. You do not take the ball out of his hands because he's having an off night, never. Your best player is still your best player; I would think the same holds true in football. Ben is the Steelers best offensive player; I wouldn't take the ball out of his hands, ever, but that's just me.

Pappy

[hawaiiansteel]

If Ben wasn't on its hard to blame the OC or head coach for his play.


let's say this is basketball...

if your player keeps missing all of his outside shots in the second half, as a coach do you keep drawing up plays for your player to shoot more outside jump shots or should you consider another option perhaps?

If the player that is missing the shots is your best jump shooter, you keep drawing up the plays and letting him shoot. You do not take the ball out of his hands because he's having an off night, never. Your best player is still your best player; I would think the same holds true in football. Ben is the Steelers best offensive player; I wouldn't take the ball out of his hands, ever, but that's just me.

Pappy


I didn't say you take the ball out of his hands, how about posting your best player up down low or have him drive to the basket if his outside jump shot isn't falling?

it was very windy and Ben's long passes just weren't on, so Arians dials up some more long bombs? where were the bubble screens Arians so loves or some throws to the RB out of the backfield? nope, we're just going to keep trying to hit a home run and screw the singles and doubles even though we keep striking out over and over again.

[papillon]

If Ben wasn't on its hard to blame the OC or head coach for his play.


let's say this is basketball...

if your player keeps missing all of his outside shots in the second half, as a coach do you keep drawing up plays for your player to shoot more outside jump shots or should you consider another option perhaps?

If the player that is missing the shots is your best jump shooter, you keep drawing up the plays and letting him shoot. You do not take the ball out of his hands because he's having an off night, never. Your best player is still your best player; I would think the same holds true in football. Ben is the Steelers best offensive player; I wouldn't take the ball out of his hands, ever, but that's just me.

Pappy


I didn't say you take the ball out of his hands, how about posting your best player up down low or have him drive to the basket if his outside jump shot isn't falling?

it was very windy and Ben's long passes just weren't on, so Arians dials up some more long bombs? where were the bubble screens Arians so loves or some throws to the RB out of the backfield? nope, we're just going to keep trying to hit a home run and screw the singles and doubles even though we keep striking out over and over again.

Well, your best player is a jump shooter and not a back to the basket kind of guy, so, that would be weakening your offense in two places by taking a jump shooter and making him a post player and taking your post player and having him be a passer or jump shooter.

Yea, Ben missed a few long ones in the first half that could have put the game away. he offense should have scored from the two yard line to make 21-0. It happens, this is going to be one of those crazy up and down years the way it looks now. The Steelers were getting deep at will in the first half. I would have taken a lot of down field shots myself. Brown, Sanders and Wallace were behind the safeties all day. Ben just didn't hit them.

Pappy

[AngryAsian]

If Ben wasn't on its hard to blame the OC or head coach for his play.


let's say this is basketball...

if your player keeps missing all of his outside shots in the second half, as a coach do you keep drawing up plays for your player to shoot more outside jump shots or should you consider another option perhaps?

If the player that is missing the shots is your best jump shooter, you keep drawing up the plays and letting him shoot. You do not take the ball out of his hands because he's having an off night, never. Your best player is still your best player; I would think the same holds true in football. Ben is the Steelers best offensive player; I wouldn't take the ball out of his hands, ever, but that's just me.

Pappy


I didn't say you take the ball out of his hands, how about posting your best player up down low or have him drive to the basket if his outside jump shot isn't falling?

it was very windy and Ben's long passes just weren't on, so Arians dials up some more long bombs? where were the bubble screens Arians so loves or some throws to the RB out of the backfield? nope, we're just going to keep trying to hit a home run and screw the singles and doubles even though we keep striking out over and over again.

Well, your best player is a jump shooter and not a back to the basket kind of guy, so, that would be weakening your offense in two places by taking a jump shooter and making him a post player and taking your post player and having him be a passer or jump shooter.

Yea, Ben missed a few long ones in the first half that could have put the game away. he offense should have scored from the two yard line to make 21-0. It happens, this is going to be one of those crazy up and down years the way it looks now. The Steelers were getting deep at will in the first half. I would have taken a lot of down field shots myself. Brown, Sanders and Wallace were behind the safeties all day. Ben just didn't hit them.

Pappy

Have to disagree here, Pap... in Basketball, if you keep drawing up plays for your best player (who is having no success on the perimeter) and is 3 point specialist and those plays have no success... you have 81 games left to make up the difference. Football (and yesterday) if we would of lost that game because BA continues trying to pound a square peg in a round hole, this team falls behind Buffalo, Houston, Cincinnatti, and Oakland... all currently 2nd in their respective divisions. If we continue to play down to our competition, we succeed in our SB hangover and do not see the post season. JMHO... :Boobs

[Mister Pittsburgh]

Steelers shifted from shorter passes to the TE and WR's mixed with the running game in the first half to throwing bombs every series in the second half. Not sure if that was Ben being greedy or Arians stupid play calling, but they went away from what drove us down the field all day in the first half.

Pretty dumb to be trying 40 and 50 yard bombs in swirling winds. This team simply doesn't have the discipline to put their foot on an opponents throat and keep piling on.

[feltdizz]

Please stop acting like Ben prefers the short stuff. Ben likes to go deep and guys were wide open so why are people bashing the play calling?

If guys are wide open deep, you go deep... obviously they were biting underneath if the deep passes were there.

Can't bash play calling that puts your playmaker in his favorite spot.

How many of you really thought Ben would go dink and dunk the rest of the season? The guy likes the bomb...

[Mister Pittsburgh]

Please stop acting like Ben prefers the short stuff. Ben likes to go deep and guys were wide open so why are people bashing the play calling?

If guys are wide open deep, you go deep... obviously they were biting underneath if the deep passes were there.

Can't bash play calling that puts your playmaker in his favorite spot.

How many of you really thought Ben would go dink and dunk the rest of the season? The guy likes the bomb...

You can bash playcalling when its windy as hell, deep balls are getting caught in the wind, and you were kicking a teams but using shorter passes. I don't care what Ben LIKES, I care what was working and moving the ball with some consistency.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Steelers shifted from shorter passes to the TE and WR's mixed with the running game in the first half to throwing bombs every series in the second half. Not sure if that was Ben being greedy or Arians stupid play calling, but they went away from what drove us down the field all day in the first half.

Pretty dumb to be trying 40 and 50 yard bombs in swirling winds. This team simply doesn't have the discipline to put their foot on an opponents throat and keep piling on.

You are incorrect.
Second half:
Runs = 13
Passes = 10

[feltdizz]

Please stop acting like Ben prefers the short stuff. Ben likes to go deep and guys were wide open so why are people bashing the play calling?

If guys are wide open deep, you go deep... obviously they were biting underneath if the deep passes were there.

Can't bash play calling that puts your playmaker in his favorite spot.

How many of you really thought Ben would go dink and dunk the rest of the season? The guy likes the bomb...

You can bash playcalling when its windy as hell, deep balls are getting caught in the wind, and you were kicking a teams but using shorter passes. I don't care what Ben LIKES, I care what was working and moving the ball with some consistency.

who's butt were we kicking throwing short passes? I saw a ton of runs and Ben throwing decent 10 to 15 yarders in the first half. I haven't had a chance to watch the second half but from numerous post it sounds like the Jags were crowding the LOS and given how we were running it makes sense.

You may not care what Ben likes but Ben is the one who decides where to throw the football. If the deep patterns were open are you really going to bash Ben for throwing these passes?

Sounds shaky to me.

[grotonsteel]

Please stop acting like Ben prefers the short stuff. Ben likes to go deep and guys were wide open so why are people bashing the play calling?

If guys are wide open deep, you go deep... obviously they were biting underneath if the deep passes were there.

Can't bash play calling that puts your playmaker in his favorite spot.

How many of you really thought Ben would go dink and dunk the rest of the season? The guy likes the bomb...

You can bash playcalling when its windy as hell, deep balls are getting caught in the wind, and you were kicking a teams but using shorter passes. I don't care what Ben LIKES, I care what was working and moving the ball with some consistency.

who's butt were we kicking throwing short passes? I saw a ton of runs and Ben throwing decent 10 to 15 yarders in the first half. I haven't had a chance to watch the second half but from numerous post it sounds like the Jags were crowding the LOS and given how we were running it makes sense.

You may not care what Ben likes but Ben is the one who decides where to throw the football. If the deep patterns were open are you really going to bash Ben for throwing these passes?

Sounds shaky to me.

:Agree


We would not be having this discussion if Ben hits one of his WR on 3-4 bombs he threw in 2nd half. All these passes could have been TD passes.

The WRs were open and they were behind the secondary. O-line was giving Ben some time. I don't understand why one should go for 3-step drops especially when Jags DBs are sitting on the short routes. I would always go vertical no matter what in that scenario especially when you are up by 17-3. Worst case scenario it would be an incompletion. I would take that over a pick 6. Jags offense was not doing anything. Why give them a TO and easy 6 points??

Now did the wind messed up those passes i don't know but all these bombs were with Sanders, well one was with Mike Wallace. I still believe Ben and Sanders need to get their timing right.

[feltdizz]

All we hear is "if Ben had time" he would show how great he truly is...

Not saying Ben isn't great but sometimes you have to stop blaming everyone else and just concede Ban had an off game.

Sounds crazy to hear people saying Ben was set up to fail at hitting wide open WR's...

[Mister Pittsburgh]

Steelers shifted from shorter passes to the TE and WR's mixed with the running game in the first half to throwing bombs every series in the second half. Not sure if that was Ben being greedy or Arians stupid play calling, but they went away from what drove us down the field all day in the first half.

Pretty dumb to be trying 40 and 50 yard bombs in swirling winds. This team simply doesn't have the discipline to put their foot on an opponents throat and keep piling on.

You are incorrect.
Second half:
Runs = 13
Passes = 10

How am I incorrect? I said we shifted from throwing the underneath stuff and started throwing deep, which yes, if the WR are wide open on normal days you go for it....not when it is windy as hell. I live right near the stadium...it was windy as hell regardless if the few times they showed the flags on the field goal posts were moving.

[Pahn711]

What do you suggest the coaches do if their best offensive player is off his game?


this brings me back to the original point I was attempting to make, that Arians should have noticed Ben was not making the throws in the second half and should have called for shorter, quicker 3-step drop passes that worked so well last week against the Titans.
I feel that a QB really needs to be on his game to execute those quick 3 step drops. Possibly, even more so then the plays that take more seconds to develop. Those passes worked so well vs the Titans because Ben played well. I believe offensive success hinges on how well Ben performs.

No way dude, its all Arians fault. He failed to call the right route adjustment so that Ben's perfectly thrown passes would have hit their mark. Arians sucks and needs to be fired immediately. :roll:

[BURGH86STEEL]

[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":3c8u9tv9]Steelers shifted from shorter passes to the TE and WR's mixed with the running game in the first half to throwing bombs every series in the second half. Not sure if that was Ben being greedy or Arians stupid play calling, but they went away from what drove us down the field all day in the first half.

Pretty dumb to be trying 40 and 50 yard bombs in swirling winds. This team simply doesn't have the discipline to put their foot on an opponents throat and keep piling on.

You are incorrect.
Second half:
Runs = 13
Passes = 10

How am I incorrect? I said we shifted from throwing the underneath stuff and started throwing deep, which yes, if the WR are wide open on normal days you go for it....not when it is windy as hell. I live right near the stadium...it was windy as hell regardless if the few times they showed the flags on the field goal posts were moving.[/quote:3c8u9tv9]

They threw the ball deep in the first half. Not every pass play was deep in the second half. Do you recall how many deep passes were attempted in the second half? There were also shorter options open.

It's not like there were hurricane type winds. The wind didn't affect Ben's passes to the extent that he wasn't able to get the ball down field. How about Ben adjust and throw the ball a little earlier or a little harder?

The wind is just another reason to place the blame on the coaches for not adjusting. Short, intermediate, or deep passes Ben didn't make the plays when they were there in the second half.

[hawaiiansteel]

Arians sucks and needs to be fired immediately. :roll:

actually, I think we should wait until the end of the season...

let's see first if the Steelers offense with all of its weapons can improve from being 22nd in the league in scoring with 19.8 points per game. in today's NFL, that simply isn't good enough.

[AngryAsian]

Arians sucks and needs to be fired immediately. :roll:

actually, I think we should wait until the end of the season...

let's see first if the Steelers offense with all of its weapons can improve from being 22nd in the league in scoring with 19.8 points per game. in today's NFL, that simply isn't good enough.

Logic in excess, my pineapple picking brother... Especially for our board spinologist... sensationalism its not just for breakfast anymore.

[grotonsteel]

Arians sucks and needs to be fired immediately. :roll:

actually, I think we should wait until the end of the season...

let's see first if the Steelers offense with all of its weapons can improve from being 22nd in the league in scoring with 19.8 points per game. in today's NFL, that simply isn't good enough.

Scoring average does not make much difference to me. I still believe if you have a good defense 20 points a game is good enough to win games especially when cold sets in.

Packers scored 24 points against all-mighty St Louis Rams. Patriots scored 20 points against Cowgirls. Now both these QB are on top of there game and still could not score more than 25 points against a very ordinary defense. I still believe good defense and clock eating offense is a recipe for a win. It will be ugly but still a win and i will take that.I am more concerned about 3rd down conversion.

I still go by any given Sunday. Stats can never be looked as black and white.

[SanAntonioSteelerFan]

Arians sucks and needs to be fired immediately. :roll:

actually, I think we should wait until the end of the season...

let's see first if the Steelers offense with all of its weapons can improve from being 22nd in the league in scoring with 19.8 points per game. in today's NFL, that simply isn't good enough.

Scoring average does not make much difference to me. I still believe if you have a good defense 20 points a game is good enough to win games especially when cold sets in.

Packers scored 24 points against all-mighty St Louis Rams. Patriots scored 20 points against Cowgirls. Now both these QB are on top of there game and still could not score more than 25 points against a very ordinary defense. I still believe good defense and clock eating offense is a recipe for a win. It will be ugly but still a win and i will take that.I am more concerned about 3rd down conversion.

I still go by any given Sunday. Stats can never be looked as black and white.

My Packer friend said they just stopped throwing after they got 24 points, so according to him it's not that they "couldn't" score more than 24 points against the Rams, but that they chose not to.

[steelz09]

The bottom line is that Arians sucks and anyone that thinks differently is dumb. :stirpot

Obviously, I'm just kidding... just wanted to add a bit of humor to this hotly debated topic :)

[hawaiiansteel]

The bottom line is that Arians sucks and anyone that thinks differently is dumb. :stirpot

Obviously, I'm just kidding... just wanted to add a bit of humor to this hotly debated topic :)


are you trolling again? :D

[Pahn711]

The bottom line is that Arians sucks and anyone that thinks differently is dumb. :stirpot

The offense as a whole sucks, you aren't giving enough credit to where its really due.



are you trolling again? :D

No. You are. :Hater

[hawaiiansteel]

The bottom line is that Arians sucks and anyone that thinks differently is dumb. :stirpot

The offense as a whole sucks, you aren't giving enough credit to where its really due.



are you trolling again? :D

No. You are. :Hater


so are you calling me a troll now?

[Pahn711]

The bottom line is that Arians sucks and anyone that thinks differently is dumb. :stirpot

The offense as a whole sucks, you aren't giving enough credit to where its really due.



are you trolling again? :D

No. You are. :Hater


so are you calling me a troll now?

:nono :Boobs

[hawaiiansteel]

congratulations Pahn, in one single thread you have been able to reply to the following posters with positive comments such as "Lots of troll sightings around here these days..."

SanAntonioSteelerFan - "Because you should obviously be the new Steelers OC, the expert that you are."

jhansle - "This is a troll thread to pander to backseat drivers, nothing more."

Djfan - "quit being so sensitive" and "you are gonna have to be more specific for me not to assume you are pulling this out of your :moon "

AngryAsian - "Whatever dude...I didn't call anyone out specifically for being a troll, except maybe implying that the original poster (SanAntonioSteelerFan) was being one for starting this, but he didn't get offended and jump to conclusions, it was some other dude who I wasn't talking to. (Djfan)

hawaiiansteel - "No. You are. (trolling again) :Hater


keep up the good work Pahn, your contributions to making this board a better place to share our different opinions have been duly noted. :Cheers

[Djfan]

congratulations Pahn, in one single thread you have been able to reply to the following posters with positive comments such as "Lots of troll sightings around here these days..."

SanAntonioSteelerFan - "Because you should obviously be the new Steelers OC, the expert that you are."

jhansle - "This is a troll thread to pander to backseat drivers, nothing more."

Djfan - "quit being so sensitive" and "you are gonna have to be more specific for me not to assume you are pulling this out of your :moon "

AngryAsian - "Whatever dude...I didn't call anyone out specifically for being a troll, except maybe implying that the original poster (SanAntonioSteelerFan) was being one for starting this, but he didn't get offended and jump to conclusions, it was some other dude who I wasn't talking to. (Djfan)

hawaiiansteel - "No. You are. (trolling again) :Hater


keep up the good work Pahn, your contributions to making this board a better place to share our different opinions have been duly noted. :Cheers

His crap is the reason I will continue to be MIA for a while. I used to come here to talk Steelers with friends. Now I come here to be insulted, told I can't observe things that I observe, that I'm sensitive, etc.

He is insanesteelersfan 2.0.

[Flasteel]

congratulations Pahn, in one single thread you have been able to reply to the following posters with positive comments such as "Lots of troll sightings around here these days..."

SanAntonioSteelerFan - "Because you should obviously be the new Steelers OC, the expert that you are."

jhansle - "This is a troll thread to pander to backseat drivers, nothing more."

Djfan - "quit being so sensitive" and "you are gonna have to be more specific for me not to assume you are pulling this out of your :moon "

AngryAsian - "Whatever dude...I didn't call anyone out specifically for being a troll, except maybe implying that the original poster (SanAntonioSteelerFan) was being one for starting this, but he didn't get offended and jump to conclusions, it was some other dude who I wasn't talking to. (Djfan)

hawaiiansteel - "No. You are. (trolling again) :Hater


keep up the good work Pahn, your contributions to making this board a better place to share our different opinions have been duly noted. :Cheers

His crap is the reason I will continue to be MIA for a while. I used to come here to talk Steelers with friends. Now I come here to be insulted, told I can't observe things that I observe, that I'm sensitive, etc.

He is insanesteelersfan 2.0.

Sounds like you're being kind of sensitive to me. :D

[pittpete]

The offense doesnt suck, its just very inconsistent. :wft

[Pahn711]

congratulations Pahn, in one single thread you have been able to reply to the following posters with positive comments such as "Lots of troll sightings around here these days..."

SanAntonioSteelerFan - "Because you should obviously be the new Steelers OC, the expert that you are."

jhansle - "This is a troll thread to pander to backseat drivers, nothing more."

Djfan - "quit being so sensitive" and "you are gonna have to be more specific for me not to assume you are pulling this out of your :moon "

AngryAsian - "Whatever dude...I didn't call anyone out specifically for being a troll, except maybe implying that the original poster (SanAntonioSteelerFan) was being one for starting this, but he didn't get offended and jump to conclusions, it was some other dude who I wasn't talking to. (Djfan)

hawaiiansteel - "No. You are. (trolling again) :Hater


keep up the good work Pahn, your contributions to making this board a better place to share our different opinions have been duly noted. :Cheers

I was content to drop it, the last comment to you was supposed to be a joke (in response to you joking about it). Thanks for rehashing. Despite being baffled about your motives for doing this, its the wrong approach to get me to stop. You apparently have nothing better to do and want to keep stirring the pot on this. (BTW: several of those quotes are being taken out of context by the way you are presenting them, so thanks for trying to make me look like an even bigger douche, apparently people can't read for themselves).

And yes I still stand by it, chanting "Arians sucks" in thread after thread is being a troll. My only regret is that I apparently took it too far and got carried away. My intent was to drop it at this point.

And yes DJ, you are being too sensitive. Name another thread besides this one where I have "insulted" you. Its a stretch to say this one instance has made this forum unfit for you to talk Steelers "among friends." I was willing to have a real discussion about Arians and you replied with something silly about blaming him for front office roster moves, thats when you broke off contact and said I wasn't being "rational." So whatever I'll make it a point not to respond to your posts in the future if thats what you want.

[fordfixer]

congratulations Pahn, in one single thread you have been able to reply to the following posters with positive comments such as "Lots of troll sightings around here these days..."

SanAntonioSteelerFan - "Because you should obviously be the new Steelers OC, the expert that you are."

jhansle - "This is a troll thread to pander to backseat drivers, nothing more."

Djfan - "quit being so sensitive" and "you are gonna have to be more specific for me not to assume you are pulling this out of your :moon "

AngryAsian - "Whatever dude...I didn't call anyone out specifically for being a troll, except maybe implying that the original poster (SanAntonioSteelerFan) was being one for starting this, but he didn't get offended and jump to conclusions, it was some other dude who I wasn't talking to. (Djfan)

hawaiiansteel - "No. You are. (trolling again) :Hater


keep up the good work Pahn, your contributions to making this board a better place to share our different opinions have been duly noted. :Cheers

I was content on dropping it, the last comment to you was supposed to be a joke. Thanks for rehashing. And yes I still stand by it, chanting "Arians sucks" in thread after thread is being a troll. But I will shut up about it now.
:Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap

[hawaiiansteel]

The bottom line is that Arians sucks and anyone that thinks differently is dumb. :stirpot



are you trolling again? :D

No. You are. :Hater


this was the specific quote of yours that made me decide to rehash things.

I was joking with jhansle since he was making an attempt to lighten things up but you couldn't help yourself and just had to send me the above response complete with your little
:Hater sign...

when you make a decision to call other posters "trolls" because you don't agree with what they're saying you should not be surprised to receive a negative response in return.

[feltdizz]

Can we get back to the topic or are you guys going to keep distracting people by focusing on the word troll? :wft

I swear some of you are so sensitive :moon

[hawaiiansteel]

Can we get back to the topic or are you guys going to keep distracting people by focusing on the word troll? :wft

I swear some of you are so sensitive :moon


I don't appreciate being called a troll (I find that term to be insulting) and if that makes me sensitive then so be it.

I certainly don't need you telling me how I can feel.

[feltdizz]

Can we get back to the topic or are you guys going to keep distracting people by focusing on the word troll? :wft

I swear some of you are so sensitive :moon


I don't appreciate being called a troll (I find that term to be insulting) and if that makes me sensitive then so be it.

I certainly don't need you telling me how I can feel.

well, now I do think you are being a little sensitive... :wink:

it's not that serious, and neither was I. :Cheers

woooo saaaaaaw

[Pahn711]

Can we get back to the topic or are you guys going to keep distracting people by focusing on the word troll? :wft

I swear some of you are so sensitive :moon


I don't appreciate being called a troll (I find that term to be insulting) and if that makes me sensitive then so be it.

I certainly don't need you telling me how I can feel.

Honestly that comment to you was intended to be a joke. You were lightly making fun of (or possibly mocking) the situation so I did the same. But regardless, I recognize that it was a poor choice of words and I apologize. My using that term stemmed from the frustration of seeing thread after thread of the same bashing with nothing new to add like actual statistics and play-calling situations that prove the point sufficiently.

In my opinion, we are all trolling at times and I wouldn't find it that offensive if it were directed at me. But believe me I will not be using that term again, seeing the overreaction that resulted.

[ikestops85]

http://canonfilmmakers.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/troll27sbrainandmemory.gif

[Pahn711]

Touche good sir, I resign...

[hawaiiansteel]

I recognize that it was a poor choice of words and I apologize.


very classy move on your part Pahn... :Clap :Cheers