Could it be time for some 4-3 D?

[flippy]

Smitty's done. Farrior and Foote are slow. Harrison's hurt. Keisel's banged up. Casey's getting cut blocked and negated every other play. And Woodley's non existant.

At the end of the day, we need to stop the run 1st and foremost. And second, we need to get to the QB. The front 7 on D have been lackluster. And I don't see it getting much better from here if we stick with the same old same old. Maybe Timmons could give us a spark off the edge. Maybe Heyward and Ziggy develop sooner than later. Just don't see much having that big of an impact on the front 7.

So how bout we get some bigger body's up front to plug more holes and start stopping the run. Get Hampton, Hood, Hoke, Heyward, McLendon, and Keisel into a 4 man line rotation.

Or if we just can't man a 4-3, how bout trying Keisel at OLB in the 3-4 to get another bigger body on the field. Harrison and Woodley can't beat TEs these days. No way you'd ever see a TE 1 on 1 vs Keisel coming off the edge.

Any way we can get some bigger guys on the field will help tremendously.

I'd also like to see more Hoke time. Remember when Hampton got hurt a few years back and Hoke came in for most of a season and our run D improved?

I'm a patient man, but I'm convinced to salvage this season, we've got to get our front 7 issues solved somehow. And it could take something drastic from Lebeau.

[Pahn711]

I'm a patient man, but I'm convinced to salvage this season, we've got to get our front 7 issues solved somehow. And it could take something drastic from Lebeau.

Wanting a 2-2 football team to completely reinvent their defensive philosophies, schemes, and player alignments mid season does not exude patience. Besides not having the correct personnel, lack of time to implement is an even bigger issue. Even if I thought 4-3 was a better defense (which I don't), a drastic change like this could only be done in the offseason.

[phillyesq]

In addition to the fact that it is midseason, the Steelers, as currently situated, do not have the personnel for a 4-3.

In a 4-3, Hampton, Hoke, Hood and McLendon would all be DTs. Keisel and Heyward are the only two that really fit as 4-3 DEs, maybe Woodley or Worilds as well, but then who plays LB? Timmons fills one spot, either inside or outside. But asking Farrior and Foote to cover more ground is not going to help.

The bottom line is simply that the Steelers need their lineman to be more stout at the point of attack. Changing the scheme isn't going to change that. Ziggy needs to play like he did last year, and the rest need to step up as well.

[steelz09]

I think the d-line would be fine w/ our personnel. I think the LB would have the biggest learning curve especially Timmons.

Timmons would be the middle linebacker in the 4-3 due to his speed. Even though Timmons played OLB in a 4-3 at FSU, he would played the middle for us.

Harrison would be outside.
Farrior/Foote would be the other outside guy.

Woodley would be fine as a DE in the 4-3. Keisel / Heyward would be the other.

Smith, McClendon, Hampton, Hoke, and Hood could all play DT.

[steelblood]

You crazy, Flippy. :)

We do give some 4 man front looks in our nickel and dime defenses. It really wouldn't be hard to set up a straight ahead 4-3. But, to stunt, blitz, etc. would be complicated. Also, it would take a while for us to be able to disguise our pass coverages. A successful switch to a 4-3 will require an offseason to implement advanced packages and tighten up assignment details.

[Oviedo]

Why would anyone be crazy enough to suggest that it may be time to go to the 4-3 defense? Only a crazy person would suggest that :stirpot

Don't you know LeBeau has already figured out the perfect defense. Just look at past ratings (even though they are meaningless this season). There is no need to innovate or modify anything. Just trust the scheme no matter what players you have and whether it plays to their strengths or not. :wink:

[SteelTorch]

Smitty's done. Farrior and Foote are slow. Harrison's hurt. Keisel's banged up. Casey's getting cut blocked and negated every other play. And Woodley's non existant.

At the end of the day, we need to stop the run 1st and foremost. And second, we need to get to the QB. The front 7 on D have been lackluster. And I don't see it getting much better from here if we stick with the same old same old. Maybe Timmons could give us a spark off the edge. Maybe Heyward and Ziggy develop sooner than later. Just don't see much having that big of an impact on the front 7.

So how bout we get some bigger body's up front to plug more holes and start stopping the run. Get Hampton, Hood, Hoke, Heyward, McLendon, and Keisel into a 4 man line rotation.

Or if we just can't man a 4-3, how bout trying Keisel at OLB in the 3-4 to get another bigger body on the field. Harrison and Woodley can't beat TEs these days. No way you'd ever see a TE 1 on 1 vs Keisel coming off the edge.

Any way we can get some bigger guys on the field will help tremendously.

I'd also like to see more Hoke time. Remember when Hampton got hurt a few years back and Hoke came in for most of a season and our run D improved?

I'm a patient man, but I'm convinced to salvage this season, we've got to get our front 7 issues solved somehow. And it could take something drastic from Lebeau.
No. :wink:

[Oviedo]

Smitty's done. Farrior and Foote are slow. Harrison's hurt. Keisel's banged up. Casey's getting cut blocked and negated every other play. And Woodley's non existant.

At the end of the day, we need to stop the run 1st and foremost. And second, we need to get to the QB. The front 7 on D have been lackluster. And I don't see it getting much better from here if we stick with the same old same old. Maybe Timmons could give us a spark off the edge. Maybe Heyward and Ziggy develop sooner than later. Just don't see much having that big of an impact on the front 7.

So how bout we get some bigger body's up front to plug more holes and start stopping the run. Get Hampton, Hood, Hoke, Heyward, McLendon, and Keisel into a 4 man line rotation.

Or if we just can't man a 4-3, how bout trying Keisel at OLB in the 3-4 to get another bigger body on the field. Harrison and Woodley can't beat TEs these days. No way you'd ever see a TE 1 on 1 vs Keisel coming off the edge.

Any way we can get some bigger guys on the field will help tremendously.

I'd also like to see more Hoke time. Remember when Hampton got hurt a few years back and Hoke came in for most of a season and our run D improved?

I'm a patient man, but I'm convinced to salvage this season, we've got to get our front 7 issues solved somehow. And it could take something drastic from Lebeau.

Flippy---LeBeau is just as stubborn and arrogant as Arians. He won't change a thing because "his baby ain't ugly"

That is why he and Arians both need to go away after this season. Past contributions are meaningless. It is what you are doing here and now and both aren't doing much.

And I won't change my opinion even if we go undefeated the rest of the year. It is time for some new blood and change to set us up for the next 10 years.

[Mister Pittsburgh]

Steelers are too stubborn to think outside the box like this. The way I see it is if we completely blow this season it will simply put us in a better position to pick high in the draft for once which might allow us to finally pick an OT when they are still on the board. Not to mention having that higher pick in rounds 2, on.

With the age of this defense and the suckiness of the OL, we need to retool.

If Lebeau retires at seasons end, I could see us moving to a more traditional 4-3 defense or a hybrid.

[steelblood]

Flippy---LeBeau is just as stubborn and arrogant as Arians. He won't change a thing because "his baby ain't ugly"



Ovi,

I don't disagree that LeBeau is sometimes stubborn and slow to change and adjust. But, Calling Mr. LeBeau "arrogant" is like calling Ghandi selfish. There may not be a less arrogant coach in all of professional football. That is an unfair characterization. It implies that LeBeau's sense of self-importance is what is holding this team back. That simply isn't true. LeBeau does not put himself and his pride in front of this team, ever. He may be flawed as a coach, but as a human being, he is first rate.

steelblood

[papillon]

Can anyone that would like the Steelers to think "outside the box" name one team in the past 20 years or even longer that completely overhauled their defensive strategy at the quarter pole of a season with the team standing at 2-2? Just one, that's all I'm looking for here.

I'm not talking simply going from a 3 man front to a 4 man front a couple times a game to give a different look. I'm talking about moving OLBs to DEs, NTs to DTs, having a play maker like Polamalu play a cover 2 deep safety position rather than blitz, run support and drop into deep coverage, having corners that are sure tacklers, but not necessarily bump and run guys change to press coverage, etc. I'm talking a complete overhaul. I doubt you'll find one, I haven't searched, but my money is on the fact that it has never happened. You know why? Because, it's a bad idea, that's why.

JFC, change just to change is a bad idea. When you move a player, say Woodley, from a position that he has played admirably for 4 years to a new position and insert either an inexperienced player/rookie or move another player from a different position into Woodley's position you weaken two positions, you do not strengthen two positions.

In the long term you might strengthen two positions, but that is something for the off season and training camp, not at the quarter pole of the current season.

Get a grip, the sky isn't falling, the season may not produce the results we're accustomed to, but the best course of action is to stay the course and hope that every player will begin to handle his assignments and then see what happens. The Steelers are losing one-on-one match ups, they are not being out schemed or tricked, they are getting their arses handed to them by the guy across the LOS. Until that is rectified I don't care what defense they play, they aren't going to stop an offense.

Pappy

[RuthlessBurgher]

Smitty's done. Farrior and Foote are slow. Harrison's hurt. Keisel's banged up. Casey's getting cut blocked and negated every other play. And Woodley's non existant.

At the end of the day, we need to stop the run 1st and foremost. And second, we need to get to the QB. The front 7 on D have been lackluster. And I don't see it getting much better from here if we stick with the same old same old. Maybe Timmons could give us a spark off the edge. Maybe Heyward and Ziggy develop sooner than later. Just don't see much having that big of an impact on the front 7.

So how bout we get some bigger body's up front to plug more holes and start stopping the run. Get Hampton, Hood, Hoke, Heyward, McLendon, and Keisel into a 4 man line rotation.

Or if we just can't man a 4-3, how bout trying Keisel at OLB in the 3-4 to get another bigger body on the field. Harrison and Woodley can't beat TEs these days. No way you'd ever see a TE 1 on 1 vs Keisel coming off the edge.

Any way we can get some bigger guys on the field will help tremendously.

I'd also like to see more Hoke time. Remember when Hampton got hurt a few years back and Hoke came in for most of a season and our run D improved?

I'm a patient man, but I'm convinced to salvage this season, we've got to get our front 7 issues solved somehow. And it could take something drastic from Lebeau.

Flippy---LeBeau is just as stubborn and arrogant as Arians. He won't change a thing because "his baby ain't ugly"

That is why he and Arians both need to go away after this season. Past contributions are meaningless. It is what you are doing here and now and both aren't doing much.

And I won't change my opinion even if we go undefeated the rest of the year. It is time for some new blood and change to set us up for the next 10 years.

That's for damn sure.

[Mister Pittsburgh]

Can anyone that would like the Steelers to think "outside the box" name one team in the past 20 years or even longer that completely overhauled their defensive strategy at the quarter pole of a season with the team standing at 2-2? Just one, that's all I'm looking for here.

I'm not talking simply going from a 3 man front to a 4 man front a couple times a game to give a different look. I'm talking about moving OLBs to DEs, NTs to DTs, having a play maker like Polamalu play a cover 2 deep safety position rather than blitz, run support and drop into deep coverage, having corners that are sure tacklers, but not necessarily bump and run guys change to press coverage, etc. I'm talking a complete overhaul. I doubt you'll find one, I haven't searched, but my money is on the fact that it has never happened. You know why? Because, it's a bad idea, that's why.

JFC, change just to change is a bad idea. When you move a player, say Woodley, from a position that he has played admirably for 4 years to a new position and insert either an inexperienced player/rookie or move another player from a different position into Woodley's position you weaken two positions, you do not strengthen two positions.

In the long term you might strengthen two positions, but that is something for the off season and training camp, not at the quarter pole of the current season.

Get a grip, the sky isn't falling, the season may not produce the results we're accustomed to, but the best course of action is to stay the course and hope that every player will begin to handle his assignments and then see what happens. The Steelers are losing one-on-one match ups, they're aren't being out schemed or tricked, they are getting their arses handed to them by the guy across the LOS. Until that is rectified I don't care what defense they play, they aren't going to stop an offense.

Pappy

Didn't say scrap the defense. We run variations of the 3-4. Could easily run some 4-3. I don't think there is anything wrong with some element of surprise. I think the Steelers have fallen too far into the 'line up and lets trade punches' mentality. We do what we do, stop us.....and teams are stopping us.

And when I say 'thinking outside the box' I am not only thinking of this one instance and this one facet. Things like simply cutting a Joey Porter that led the league in sacks the following year instead of trading him. Could of easily got a top half of the draft pick in compensation for him. That is just one instance. The Pats can trade their players off without losing a lockerroom.

[phillyesq]

Can anyone that would like the Steelers to think "outside the box" name one team in the past 20 years or even longer that completely overhauled their defensive strategy at the quarter pole of a season with the team standing at 2-2? Just one, that's all I'm looking for here.

I'm not talking simply going from a 3 man front to a 4 man front a couple times a game to give a different look. I'm talking about moving OLBs to DEs, NTs to DTs, having a play maker like Polamalu play a cover 2 deep safety position rather than blitz, run support and drop into deep coverage, having corners that are sure tacklers, but not necessarily bump and run guys change to press coverage, etc. I'm talking a complete overhaul. I doubt you'll find one, I haven't searched, but my money is on the fact that it has never happened. You know why? Because, it's a bad idea, that's why.

JFC, change just to change is a bad idea. When you move a player, say Woodley, from a position that he has played admirably for 4 years to a new position and insert either an inexperienced player/rookie or move another player from a different position into Woodley's position you weaken two positions, you do not strengthen two positions.

In the long term you might strengthen two positions, but that is something for the off season and training camp, not at the quarter pole of the current season.

Get a grip, the sky isn't falling, the season may not produce the results we're accustomed to, but the best course of action is to stay the course and hope that every player will begin to handle his assignments and then see what happens. The Steelers are losing one-on-one match ups, they are not being out schemed or tricked, they are getting their arses handed to them by the guy across the LOS. Until that is rectified I don't care what defense they play, they aren't going to stop an offense.

Pappy

:Clap :Clap :Clap

[Shawn]

I'm a patient man, but I'm convinced to salvage this season, we've got to get our front 7 issues solved somehow. And it could take something drastic from Lebeau.

Wanting a 2-2 football team to completely reinvent their defensive philosophies, schemes, and player alignments mid season does not exude patience. Besides not having the correct personnel, lack of time to implement is an even bigger issue. Even if I thought 4-3 was a better defense (which I don't), a drastic change like this could only be done in the offseason.

Just what I was thinking. You don't pull something like this midseason.

[Dee Dub]

My answer to this question/post would be.......NO! But I wonder if some of you really watch these games or just to movement of the ball?? The Steelers have always run a variation of a 4-3. It isnt their base defense but you will see several times throughout a game they are going 4-3.

Here is what I think..we all know my complaints about LeBeau not bringing pressure after the QB. This last game versus the Texans he only blitz 1 time. He is doing this for two reasons. One, because he uses his SS at or near the box and LOS of scrimmage many times through out the game. You have to run a deep cover 1 behind that. Problem with that is you need a FS who is strong in coverage. This is problem two. The Steelers dont have that. So to compensate you need to drop your backers more often in coverage (zone underneath).

I think eventually and not too far away LeBeau is going to change this approach. He is going to be forced too. The front 3 isnt getting enough of a push and I think LeBeau is going to have to be forced to send his backers more after the QB.

That's just my opinion.

[Slapstick]

Moving from a 3-4 to a 4-3 base D during the season is a move that reeks of desperation and giving up on the season...

Cincinnati did it in the late 90's...

Atlanta did it a few years later...

Desperation...

[SidSmythe]

We don't have a scheme problem ... we have a personel problem. Whether it's a 3-4 or a 4-3, we lack personel

[SteelAbility]

Yes its time for a 43 defense. :Agree His name is Troy. :wink: