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StarSpangledSteeler
10-03-2011, 12:57 PM
1) The Steelers defense is giving up 277 yards per game. (2nd in the NFL)

2) The Steelers defense is giving up 18 points per game. (5th in the NFL)

3) The Steelers offense is generating 359 yards per game. (13th in the NFL)

4) The Steelers offense is generating 16 points per game. (27th in the NFL)

I point this out because a lot of people are jumping off bridges and/or calling for the Steelers to cut every defensive player over 26 years old. I think that's an emotional reaction. Statistically speaking, LeBeau is calling a decent game, and most of our guys playing soundly without making major mistakes. Can we improve our run D?... Yes... Is that the reason we're losing?... No... Our defense is not the problem.

Our problem is that our offense is not generating POINTS. Why is it that we rank 13th in yards per game, but 27th in points per game?... I have to put that squarely on Bruce Almighty. His situational play calling is horrendous. I realize our OL sucks. But if your the OC you have to start calling plays that compensate for that, especially in the red zone. When is the last time we saw Big Ben boot leg? How many pass attempts to our star TE? How many screen passes to our capable RB's?

In comparison:

- Green Bay's defense is giving up 406 yards per game. (28th in the NFL)

- Green Bay's defense is giving up 24.3 points per game. (18th in the NFL)

- New England's defense is giving up 477 yards per game. (last in the NFL by a wide margin)

- New England's defense is giving up 24.5 points per game. (20th in the NFL)

But those teams score POINTS. And before you place all the blame on our OL (which does suck), take a look at Green Bay's and New England's starting OL.

The stats say Arians must go.

(BTW - our special teams return units are tied for 9th and 8th in the NFL for KR and PR respectively)

flippy
10-03-2011, 01:15 PM
The offensive fireworks are gonna slow down as the season wears on and the weather changes. But we do need to figure out how to stop the run and get to the QB.

Offense will be good enough if the D can get going. Ben's done more with less. He just needs to get on track. And the OLine mistakes will go down a bit from here. And Wallace, Brown, and Sanders will get better.

And if we'd spread people out, speed up the offense, and let Mendy run from 3-4 WR sets with no FB, we'll be ok.

At the end of the day, we know the offensive philosophy won't change. And Ben's gonna have to carry this team for it to be successful.

LouSteel
10-03-2011, 01:15 PM
1) The Steelers defense is giving up 277 yards per game. (2nd in the NFL)

2) The Steelers defense is giving up 18 points per game. (5th in the NFL)

3) The Steelers offense is generating 359 yards per game. (13th in the NFL)

4) The Steelers offense is generating 16 points per game. (27th in the NFL)

I point this out because a lot of people are jumping off bridges and/or calling for the Steelers to cut every defensive player over 26 years old. I think that's an emotional reaction. Statistically speaking, LeBeau is calling a decent game, and most of our guys playing soundly without making major mistakes. Can we improve our run D?... Yes... Is that the reason we're losing?... No... Our defense is not the problem.

QB ratings for the guys we've played so far:


Flacco: 79.9[/*:m:1rj4smi5]
T-Jack: 80[/*:m:1rj4smi5]
Collins: 65.9[/*:m:1rj4smi5]
Schaub: 101[/*:m:1rj4smi5]

Our passing D looks good because of two scrubs.

Schaub had fine production against us, but didn't need to throw because our run D is Swiss cheese.

Flacco ate our D for breakfast.

The D isn't THE problem, but it is a problem. Match it up against good opponents and I'm concerned.


Our problem is that our offense is not generating POINTS. Why is it that we rank 13th in yards per game, but 27th in points per game?... I have to put that squarely on Bruce Almighty. His situational play calling is horrendous. I realize our OL sucks. But if your the OC you have to start calling plays that compensate for that, especially in the red zone. When is the last time we saw Big Ben boot leg? How many pass attempts to our star TE? How many screen passes to our capable RB's?

In comparison:

- Green Bay's defense is giving up 406 yards per game. (28th in the NFL)

- Green Bay's defense is giving up 24.3 points per game. (18th in the NFL)

- New England's defense is giving up 477 yards per game. (last in the NFL by a wide margin)

- New England's defense is giving up 24.5 points per game. (20th in the NFL)

But those teams score POINTS. And before you place all the blame on our OL (which does suck), take a look at Green Bay's and New England's starting OL.

The stats say Arians must go.

(BTW - our special teams return units are tied for 9th and 8th in the NFL for KR and PR respectively)

I'll buy this for sure.

In today's NFL, the best D is to score more damn touchdowns. And BA isn't getting that done.

steelblood
10-03-2011, 01:19 PM
Looking at yards as a ranking for offense and defense is shortsighted and ignores the most important figures - turnovers and points. We aren't doing well with either one.

StarSpangledSteeler
10-03-2011, 01:28 PM
Looking at yards as a ranking for offense and defense is shortsighted and ignores the most important figures - turnovers and points. We aren't doing well with either one.

I just listed that our defensive points allowed ranking is 5th best in the NFL. And our offensive points scored is 27th in the NFL.

Did you not read that part?

StarSpangledSteeler
10-03-2011, 01:38 PM
Offense will be good enough if the D can get going.

I respectfully disagree with your line of thinking here. I just showed stats that our D is number 2 in the NFL in yards allowed. You're saying if we can just "get going" and improve our D to number 1 in the NFL our offense will be good enough?

Our defense is giving up 18 points per game (5th in the NFL). The best defense in the NFL is giving up 14 points per game. Your saying if our D "gets going" and only allows 14 points per game our offense will be good enough?

We lost to Baltimore 35-7. If we hold them to 14 points we still lose. We lost to Houston 17-10. If we hold them to 14 points we still lose.

I think you're arguing here just for the sake of arguing. I don't think you really believe that.

AkronSteel
10-03-2011, 02:23 PM
The only stat that counts is 2-2!!! The team's record is what it is, and it is exactly where I expected them to be at this point. The loss yesterday was frustrating because it wasn't a Steeler type of loss (if there is a thing), but I expected the team to lose yesterday when the schedule came out in the spring. This is where the team as built was going to stand and most of us know that even if we don't want to admit it. The team needs to rebound quickly and put in solid performances the next two weeks at home. If they can accomplish that they will be 4-2 heading to AZ and that is not a bad place to be. If and I say if the team can get to 6-4 going into their last 6 games they will be in good shape. The team will continue to get better and I'm willing to accept that. I would much rather the team peak in December and January than in September and the early part of October. Do I like how they have played so far......NO....not at all, but I can accept it for what it is. There were positives yesterday in the 2nd half. I for one am not going to over react.

steeler_george
10-03-2011, 02:34 PM
Stats can be misleading.

We played 2 poor offensively teams in Seattle and Indy and we almost lost the latter.

Do you think we deserve the #1 pass defense ranking... not when teams just run on us, and have only 7 sacks and 0 interceptions?

steelblood
10-03-2011, 02:44 PM
Looking at yards as a ranking for offense and defense is shortsighted and ignores the most important figures - turnovers and points. We aren't doing well with either one.

I just listed that our defensive points allowed ranking is 5th best in the NFL. And our offensive points scored is 27th in the NFL.

Did you not read that part?

Don't worry, I wasn't ignoring that part.

My point is that yards mean very little when turnovers are not considered (as the disparity in our offensive yards-to-points ratio reflects). Further, yards stats don't even take into account defensive scores (of which we've given up a few). There is no reason to look at this team's yards given up or yards gained. They don't tell enough of the story.

flippy
10-03-2011, 05:53 PM
Offense will be good enough if the D can get going.

I respectfully disagree with your line of thinking here. I just showed stats that our D is number 2 in the NFL in yards allowed. You're saying if we can just "get going" and improve our D to number 1 in the NFL our offense will be good enough?

Our defense is giving up 18 points per game (5th in the NFL). The best defense in the NFL is giving up 14 points per game. Your saying if our D "gets going" and only allows 14 points per game our offense will be good enough?

We lost to Baltimore 35-7. If we hold them to 14 points we still lose. We lost to Houston 17-10. If we hold them to 14 points we still lose.

I think you're arguing here just for the sake of arguing. I don't think you really believe that.


The D can't stop the run. Can't get QB pressure. And can't create turnovers.

I absolutely believe the D needs to get going.

And the offensive issue will go away as Ben steps up his play. He's had worse weapons and a worse line and done better.

NW Steeler
10-03-2011, 06:34 PM
Stats can be misleading.

We played 2 poor offensively teams in Seattle and Indy and we almost lost the latter.

Do you think we deserve the #1 pass defense ranking... not when teams just run on us, and have only 7 sacks and 0 interceptions?

Exactly. teams are ramming it down out throat. The first drive by Houston yesterday showed us everything you need to know about the current shape of our D. They had and 11 MINUTE DRIVE TO START THE GAME. When is the last time that has happened to a Steelers' defense?

StarSpangledSteeler
10-03-2011, 08:18 PM
[quote="steeler_george":1fdohwxd]Stats can be misleading.

We played 2 poor offensively teams in Seattle and Indy and we almost lost the latter.

Do you think we deserve the #1 pass defense ranking... not when teams just run on us, and have only 7 sacks and 0 interceptions?

Exactly. teams are ramming it down out throat. The first drive by Houston yesterday showed us everything you need to know about the current shape of our D. They had and 11 MINUTE DRIVE TO START THE GAME. When is the last time that has happened to a Steelers' defense?[/quote:1fdohwxd]

I hear what you're saying, but your quote proves exactly what I'm trying to say. People are reacting emotionally because they see ONE long drive, or a few gaping runs, and they're not taking into account the improvement in our passing yards allowed. The statistics are averaging ALL of our defensive plays together. You're just looking at the ones that stand out. I'm not saying our defense can't improve. Of course they can. I'm saying the reason we're LOSING is our offense.

ter1230_4
10-03-2011, 08:43 PM
I am oncerned about the way that other teams have been able to run the ball so far this season. But the fact is that in the last two games combined (both on the road) the Steelers D has allowed three TD drives and one FG drive (I don't count the two FG's from the Indy game that were set up by turnovers). This is reflected by the yards allowed stat being 2nd in the league. The really telling stat is turnovers, where the Steelers have a -10 and only have one takeaway. I read somewhere today that the Steelers are only the 4th NFL team (Steelers team?) since 1940 to have just one takeaway in its first four games. The good news is that the Steelers are the only one of the four teams to have won two of the games. I think that part of the takeaway drought results from a lack of intensity, but I also think that there's an element of the ball just isn't bouncing right for us so far. If we had been able to recover the fumble on the opening kickoff yesterday it might have been a much different game. Those things have a way of evening themselves out over time.

To me the run D is a problem, but the offensive line and the poor job that Bruce Arians is doing are much bigger problems. But I agree with the person who pointed out that it's a long season and the Steelers still have time to improve. Ask yourselves this: Is it likely that the Ratbirds will be playing better in December than they are now? No, it's much more likely that they won't be playing as well. And if the Steelers aren't playing better in December than they are now, then it just wasn't meant to be this year. But there is a long way to go, so we should enjoy the ride instead of whining like a bunch of fishmonger's wives. Off season will come soon enough.

StarSpangledSteeler
10-03-2011, 08:45 PM
Stats can be misleading.

We played 2 poor offensively teams in Seattle and Indy and we almost lost the latter.

Do you think we deserve the #1 pass defense ranking... not when teams just run on us, and have only 7 sacks and 0 interceptions?

But that's what you're supposed to do when you have a good pass defense. That's how you get the top ranking. By beating the poor teams badly, and containing the better teams. Tavarius Jackson lit up the Falcons for 319 yards and 3 TD's. That didn't happen to us.

Did it ever occur to you that perhaps LeBeau has made some adjustments to prevent teams from throwing 50 times a game against us. Perhaps his lack of blitzing is to entice teams to run more, and keep us less exposed on pass D. This all goes into the statistics.

There's a famous quote around these parts: "You are what your record says you are."

If you're 11-5 at the end of the year, you're 11-5. Not "11-5 but you sort of played a couple weaker teams so it's not really 11-5 let's call it 9-7". Same thing applies to yards and points allowed. You are what the stats say you are. Sometimes you get a short field, sometimes you are pinned deep. It all evens out in the end.

But getting back to the point of this thread. I'm making the claim that the stats show the reason we are losing is because of our failure to produce points on offense. If you would like to dispute that claim and argue that the real reason we are losing is because of our abysmal defense, go ahead...

Let's hear your evidence...

(crickets...)

StarSpangledSteeler
10-03-2011, 08:56 PM
I am oncerned about the way that other teams have been able to run the ball so far this season. But the fact is that in the last two games combined (both on the road) the Steelers D has allowed three TD drives and one FG drive (I don't count the two FG's from the Indy game that were set up by turnovers). This is reflected by the yards allowed stat being 2nd in the league. The really telling stat is turnovers, where the Steelers have a -10 and only have one takeaway. I read somewhere today that the Steelers are only the 4th NFL team (Steelers team?) since 1940 to have just one takeaway in its first four games. The good news is that the Steelers are the only one of the four teams to have won two of the games. I think that part of the takeaway drought results from a lack of intensity, but I also think that there's an element of the ball just isn't bouncing right for us so far. If we had been able to recover the fumble on the opening kickoff yesterday it might have been a much different game. Those things have a way of evening themselves out over time.

To me the run D is a problem, but the offensive line and the poor job that Bruce Arians is doing are much bigger problems. But I agree with the person who pointed out that it's a long season and the Steelers still have time to improve. Ask yourselves this: Is it likely that the Ratbirds will be playing better in December than they are now? No, it's much more likely that they won't be playing as well. And if the Steelers aren't playing better in December than they are now, then it just wasn't meant to be this year. But there is a long way to go, so we should enjoy the ride instead of whining like a bunch of fishmonger's wives. Off season will come soon enough.

Well said, sir. I'll give up 120 rushing yards per game all year long if we hold all of our opponents under 18 points. You can still win with that.

Conversely, if you give up 4 sacks and 3 turnovers every game (because of terrible play calling and an atrocious OL) you're not winning anything.

NorthCoast
10-03-2011, 09:52 PM
Playoff teams typically average about 21 pts or better per game while allowing 20 or fewer. Which side are we coming up short on? I thought so, this O is anemic to the point that we will not be seeing the post season this year.

tiproast
10-03-2011, 10:34 PM
Have you guys looked at your schedule?

You're most likely going to win your last 7 games. And the two games preceding the 7 game cakewalk are at home against NE & Balt - good chance for at least a split there. Sure, you might lose a game you expect to win, or maybe even two. But 11-5 or better is what I see.

Now that doesn't mean you'll be healthy or playing well going into the playoffs. But there's a lot of time left to pull things together, and every team has to fight the injury battle.

It can be a mistake to predict what a team will look like at the end of December based on the stats after four games, in my opinion.

hawaiiansteel
10-03-2011, 11:13 PM
It can be a mistake to predict what a team will look like at the end of December based on the stats after four games, in my opinion.


here's one stat that concerns Steelers fans like myself:

Vince Wilfork, a 370-something pound defensive tackle for the Patriots has two interceptions this year.

meanwhile, the Pittsburgh Steelers entire defense has zero interceptions this year.

tiproast
10-03-2011, 11:26 PM
here's one stat that concerns Steelers fans like myself:

Vince Wilfork, a 370-something pound defensive tackle for the Patriots has two interceptions this year.

meanwhile, the Pittsburgh Steelers entire defense has zero interceptions this year.
Well, Vince is a well-conditioned athlete. Great hand-eye coordination, and to him a football looks like a canned ham. Not surprising he'd grab one or two as they were flying by. :D

winwithd
10-03-2011, 11:53 PM
I was just recounting to an Eagles fan friend of mine how in 2008 we were 1-2 after giving up about 10 sacks to the Eagles and losing 20-6 or so. The OLine looked like a mess but we ended up winning the Super Bowl that year. Yeah I know the defense was playing lights out that year, but who's to say they don't start to come around til December. Maybe we start to see Sly playing inside a little bit. We're only a game back in the division. And I'd say we have more weapons on offense this year than we had back then to work with once they get it figured out. Was that the year we had Mitch Berger as our punter?

With stats like you pointed out one might expect we are 0-4, but we are 2-2 so there must be something here to work with.

Last I checked the Colts were on the road giving the Bucs all they can handle. And Seattle has a win, gave Atlanta all they could handle, and were beating the Niners til their ST collapsed.

hawaiiansteel
10-04-2011, 01:10 AM
NUMBERS

3.0 Yards per carry for Rashard Mendenhall, second-lowest among NFL running backs with at least 50 carries.

6 Offensive touchdowns scored by the Steelers.

7 Offensive touchdowns scored by the Steelers through the first four games last season, when they were without starting quarterback Ben Roethlisberger.

7 More takeaways than turnovers the Steelers had through first four games last season.

10 More turnovers than takeaways the Steelers have through four games this season.

33 Receiving yards Mike Wallace fell short of Sunday in his bid to tie an NFL record with seven consecutive 100-yard games during the regular season.

201.3 Titans quarterback Matt Hasselbeck's average passing yards in three career games against the Steelers.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... z1ZmMt3z00 (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_760073.html#ixzz1ZmMt3z00)