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flippy
10-02-2011, 04:14 PM
Time to put up some points on O. The D held Houston to 17 when they typically score 30.

This offense is putrid.

And it all begins and ends with Ben.

You can say it's the play calls or the OLine. But it all starts and ends with the QB. And Ben is not getting it done.

Scarletfire1970
10-02-2011, 04:16 PM
Are you kidding me?

Djfan
10-02-2011, 04:17 PM
Yeah, Ben's blocking sucks.

msp26505
10-02-2011, 04:21 PM
Perhaps there needs to be a showdown.

Someone needs to tell Ben: "You will not play sandlot ball".

Ben needs to reply: "But it's what makes me great".

Someone then needs to then say, "OK, you win."

Then someone else needs to come in and fire someone and hire another someone who can call good plays, establish an offensive rhythm and make their star QB realize that he can win 3 more Super Bowls and extend his career by about 5 years if he listens to someone who is not full of crap.

SteelBucks
10-02-2011, 04:21 PM
I'll put this on every thread. Bad line = bad offense. Don't over analyze this, it's really that simple.

flippy
10-02-2011, 04:21 PM
Ben hit's a wide open Brown and this was a tie game.

Ben's a turnover machine.

He has to know he's gonna get hit and get rid of the ball on occassion.

He needs to dump the ball off and not always wait for plays to develop downfield.

This has turned into an offensive league and Ben is not carrying this team like he needs to.

He's been too reliant on the D his whole career.

We've been waiting long enough for him to elevate this offense.

The offense is to blame.

Ben is the offense.

And I'm sure he takes the blame. I like Ben. He's a high character guy imho. But he deserves the blame. He can be better.

Chavezz
10-02-2011, 04:22 PM
Don't normally disagree with ya Flip, although Ben makes his mistakes, you have to give him some protection.

This is the worst oline that I can remember. They not only lack talent, they are dumb as well. Not a good combination.

Starlifter
10-02-2011, 04:22 PM
yep, gotta disagree flippy. ben is the only thing keeping us in the game. remember the SB 43 when he's on the stand hollaring 'who's laughing now o-line?" they were a problem then and it's a problem that STILL hasn't been addressed outside of pouncey. seriously, time to invest in some horses and get a little consistency. I can't imagine how good ben would be if 95% of the time he had a pocket and time to shred a defense.

msp26505
10-02-2011, 04:23 PM
BTW, the D gave up 1,563 yards rushing today. I don't think they are blameless, but Flippy was right about the D. The Texans will probably score more points in every other game they play this season.

Djfan
10-02-2011, 04:23 PM
Then someone else needs to come in and fire someone and hire another someone who can call good plays, establish an offensive rhythm and make their star QB realize that he can win 3 more Super Bowls and extend his career by about 5 years if he listens to someone who is not full of crap.


This.

hawaiiansteel
10-02-2011, 04:23 PM
Yeah, Ben's blocking sucks.

:D :Clap

Steelhere10
10-02-2011, 04:26 PM
30% Ben
30 % Oline
40 % Bruce A

flippy
10-02-2011, 04:27 PM
if ben makes quicker decisions or doesn't leave the pocket so quick, the Oline would look better. the one time that really stands out was the time gilbert push williams past the pocket, but williams got to ben because ben left the pocket too early.

if ben had only trusted gilbert on that play....

Scarletfire1970
10-02-2011, 04:28 PM
if ben makes quicker decisions or doesn't leave the pocket so quick, the Oline would look better. the one time that really stands out was the time gilbert push williams past the pocket, but williams got to ben because ben left the pocket too early.

if ben had only trusted gilbert on that play....
I will have him work on getting the ball out in 1/2 a milli second Flip.

Ghost
10-02-2011, 04:34 PM
Remember at the end of Animal House when Delta is running wild in the town parade and Kevin Bacon is standing there saying, "Stay calm, everything is fine, nothing to see here"?

This is exactly how I view BA and Ben when it comes to the line. They just won't acknowledge there are serious issues. The play calling doesn't take advantage of quick throws at all. Ben doesn't have any sense of a time clock in his head and takes a lot of sacks he shouldn't (I get it, that's his game but you have to adjust).

You can only blame the line so much. At least they are trying, they are just not quality NFL lineman. But an All Pro QB and the O Coordinator should know better.

grotonsteel
10-02-2011, 04:35 PM
BTW, the D gave up 1,563 yards rushing today. I don't think they are blameless, but Flippy was right about the D. The Texans will probably score more points in every other game they play this season.

The reason Texans scored only 17 points was they never aired the ball. It was on ground. if you are going to run the ball 30 times you are not going to score much points unless you are ripping some 75 yards run plays. It was always about ball control for texans and they physically abused our Defense. Texans won the battle of trenches and the game.

Leper Friend
10-02-2011, 04:35 PM
Ben has his flaws but he is the only QB in the league that would survive this o-line , let alone be successful in it.

Once again , with the worst o-line in football , the front 4 getting pressure all day , just like last week , I saw 1 screen pass and 1 draw. There was not even an attempt in the play designs to slow down that pass rush . And that's not even getiing into the obvious passing plays where Mario Williams was blocked one on one with a rookie tackle or a tight end.

Just a putrid o-line and putris play calling.A s bad as ben has looked , he's in survival mode. It's not his fault. We're just lucky every week he doesn't get hurt.

flippy
10-02-2011, 04:37 PM
How many times does Ben anticipate and throw to a WR before he's open?

How often does Ben throw to a WR and put him in position to run after the catch?

rockonsteel
10-02-2011, 04:39 PM
While Flip is not necessarily wrong here, I think Ben deserves a sliver of the benefit of the doubt. He is shellshocked right now. He is not even looking downfield on half the plays, he's looking at the rush. At times, he looks like a deer in headlights. This is utterly comical! Except, somehow I'm not laughing.

I don't know where the solution lies at this point. Can't coach up inferior talent on O-line. Won't get rid of OC who is not very good at his job. And, refuse to replace slow, aged veterans clearly showing signs of decline, apparently holding onto recent glory. Savvy veteran turns into old, slow guy in the blink of an eye, and it appears several Steelers defenders have reached that point. So until the powers that be decide status quo is not gonna get it done, it's gonna continue to be a bumpy ride.


Rockon



Rockon

grotonsteel
10-02-2011, 04:39 PM
How many times does Ben anticipate and throw to a WR before he's open?

How often does Ben throw to a WR and put him in position to run after the catch?

Well did you see the same game as we did?? He did try to anticipate with Brown and failed miserably.

If his Wr could have made some plays we could have fared a little bit better.

Steelhere10
10-02-2011, 04:45 PM
On deffense...
40 % Dick L ( continue to start the same duds) and scheme
40 % Dline old age
20 % secondary although since Mcsuck is removed they look better.

Leper Friend
10-02-2011, 04:51 PM
How many times does Ben anticipate and throw to a WR before he's open?

How often does Ben throw to a WR and put him in position to run after the catch?
I agree 100%. however ,there were times today when even a 3 step drop wasn't quick enough.

Watch any other game , there isn't an offensive line even as close as bad as this. No QB is hurried more than Ben. Almost every pass appears to be a broken play. That's not Ben holding the ball too long , not this year so far.

NJ-STEELER
10-02-2011, 04:55 PM
How many times does Ben anticipate and throw to a WR before he's open?

?
off the top of my head


the 3 or 4 back shoulder throws

the quick hits that boucned off johnson and hines

the overthrow to brown in the corner of the end zone

feltdizz
10-02-2011, 05:02 PM
How many times does Ben anticipate and throw to a WR before he's open?

How often does Ben throw to a WR and put him in position to run after the catch?
I agree 100%. however ,there were times today when even a 3 step drop wasn't quick enough.

Watch any other game , there isn't an offensive line even as close as bad as this. No QB is hurried more than Ben. Almost every pass appears to be a broken play. That's not Ben holding the ball too long , not this year so far.

no... most OL's hold up just as long.. the ball has to come out.

Ben did have some nice back shoulder throws to Brown today.

Eddie Spaghetti
10-02-2011, 05:02 PM
ben has been terrible this year.

not saying its all on him, but he certainly hasn't played well.

Scarletfire1970
10-02-2011, 05:03 PM
How many times does Ben anticipate and throw to a WR before he's open?

How often does Ben throw to a WR and put him in position to run after the catch?
I agree 100%. however ,there were times today when even a 3 step drop wasn't quick enough.

Watch any other game , there isn't an offensive line even as close as bad as this. No QB is hurried more than Ben. Almost every pass appears to be a broken play. That's not Ben holding the ball too long , not this year so far.

no... most OL's hold up just as long.. the ball has to come out.

Ben did have some nice back shoulder throws to Brown today.

LMAO. Yeah, okay.... :lol:

LouSteel
10-02-2011, 05:08 PM
Ben's thrown 5 interceptions in 4 games.

Anyone who says he has 0 blame is crazy.

Anyone who says he deserves all the blame is crazy.

grotonsteel
10-02-2011, 05:10 PM
ben has been terrible this year.

not saying its all on him, but he certainly hasn't played well.

To me it looks like Ben does not have faith in his O-line this year which is affecting his play. He is getting more hit and that too when he is getting rid of the ball quicker than he ever did in his lifetime.

feltdizz
10-02-2011, 05:11 PM
Ben's thrown 5 interceptions in 4 games.

Anyone who says he has 0 blame is crazy.

Anyone who says he deserves all the blame is crazy.
:Agree

Chavezz
10-02-2011, 05:13 PM
if ben makes quicker decisions or doesn't leave the pocket so quick, the Oline would look better. the one time that really stands out was the time gilbert push williams past the pocket, but williams got to ben because ben left the pocket too early.

if ben had only trusted gilbert on that play....


I can't imagine why he wouldn't trust his olineman????

Steveo
10-02-2011, 06:28 PM
There's no one place to point blame, itís the whole team this year. Our D looks slow and always out of place, yes Troy is getting better but as has already been said on this forum, where is Harris, Woodly, and company? Our O-Line can't seem to open a hole for our running game, and when they do Mendenhall just dances around in the back field (probably why Redman has some success), neither can they give Ben more than a second before he's being swarmed by several pass rushers. Also as already stated Ben has to take better care of the football, I understand he's getting hit allot and he tries to extend the play. Thatís what makes him great, but for some reason he's being sloppy with the ball causing allot of fumbles when he gets hit, this has to stop. When discussing interceptions this blame needs to be distributed across the wide receivers as well as the QB. On more than one occasion it looks like Ben throws to a point where the receiver is supposed to be only to find he's not there and a defender is. Maybe this is a result of a shorter off season, bad coaching or something else, I don't know but it's in no way as simple as saying, it's the "D" or the O-Line, or even the QB.

SteelTorch
10-02-2011, 07:08 PM
Perhaps there needs to be a showdown.

Someone needs to tell Ben: "You will not play sandlot ball".

Ben needs to reply: "But it's what makes me great".

Someone then needs to then say, "OK, you win."

Then someone else needs to come in and fire someone and hire another someone who can call good plays, establish an offensive rhythm and make their star QB realize that he can win 3 more Super Bowls and extend his career by about 5 years if he listens to someone who is not full of crap.
:Agree

Sometimes I'm convinced BA only has a career because Ben likes him. And I think Ben likes him only because BA sucks up to him. (only my supposition, mind you)

But I do not blame Ben. At least, not primarily. Majority of the blame lies with the putrid O-line. Ben is NOT Superman. He can only do so much.

williar
10-02-2011, 07:21 PM
Time to put up some points on O. The D held Houston to 17 when they typically score 30.

This offense is putrid.

And it all begins and ends with Ben.

You can say it's the play calls or the OLine. But it all starts and ends with the QB. And Ben is not getting it done.

Thank you Flippy!

For calling a spade a spade.....You know you will will be asked to turn in you fan card for stating what some of us have figured out a long time ago....

In delusional fan's mind, Ben is never the problem and he's better than Brady, Manning, Brees, Rogers, Rivers, Unitas, Montana, Marino, etc... Becauze he has more rings....

Leper Friend
10-02-2011, 07:34 PM
Time to put up some points on O. The D held Houston to 17 when they typically score 30.

This offense is putrid.

And it all begins and ends with Ben.

You can say it's the play calls or the OLine. But it all starts and ends with the QB. And Ben is not getting it done.

Thank you Flippy!

For calling a spade a spade.....You know you will will be asked to turn in you fan card for stating what some of us have figured out a long time ago....

In delusional fan's mind, Ben is never the problem and he's better than Brady, Manning, Brees, Rogers, Rivers, Unitas, Montana, Marino, etc... Becauze he has more rings....
Noone is even coming close to suggesting that but thanks anyway. :roll:

sentinel33
10-02-2011, 07:44 PM
Ben's "problems" can't and won't be fixed.

He needs better off. linemen in front of him that can pass protect.

That's the bottom line.

Nobody moans about his play when we win Super Bowls. But the moment we look like crap on offense, and we do, it's Ben's fault. You can't play both sides like that.

Give him one more good guard and a wicked OT and things will be different.
It's quite obvious this O-line is not good. Not even close. I think Gilbert and Foster can get the job done on the right side(but not this year) and Pouncey is nice. The left side needs to be addressed very seriously.

And bench Mendenhall. Hard.

williar
10-02-2011, 07:47 PM
Time to put up some points on O. The D held Houston to 17 when they typically score 30.

This offense is putrid.

And it all begins and ends with Ben.

You can say it's the play calls or the OLine. But it all starts and ends with the QB. And Ben is not getting it done.

Thank you Flippy!

For calling a spade a spade.....You know you will will be asked to turn in you fan card for stating what some of us have figured out a long time ago....

In delusional fan's mind, Ben is never the problem and he's better than Brady, Manning, Brees, Rogers, Rivers, Unitas, Montana, Marino, etc... Becauze he has more rings....
Noone is even coming close to suggesting that but thanks anyway. :roll:

Obviously! You haven't spent too much time on this board. Good for you...

bostonsteeler
10-02-2011, 08:53 PM
While Flip is not necessarily wrong here, I think Ben deserves a sliver of the benefit of the doubt. He is shellshocked right now. He is not even looking downfield on half the plays, he's looking at the rush. At times, he looks like a deer in headlights. This is utterly comical! Except, somehow I'm not laughing.

I don't know where the solution lies at this point. Can't coach up inferior talent on O-line. Won't get rid of OC who is not very good at his job. And, refuse to replace slow, aged veterans clearly showing signs of decline, apparently holding onto recent glory. Savvy veteran turns into old, slow guy in the blink of an eye, and it appears several Steelers defenders have reached that point. So until the powers that be decide status quo is not gonna get it done, it's gonna continue to be a bumpy ride.


Rockon



Rockon

Rock,

Id probably be in a minority here, but I lay this
a) on the HC for being too idiotic or wimpy to get rid of the obviously idiotic OC
b) the OC
c) The FO for not going after an OL
and only finally
d) Ben, who's generally *expecting* to be hit all the time and too busy saving his butt to be more than a scatter shot. He's growing older and likes the hits less.

I would begin by
a) reading Mike Tomlin the riot act and having him get rid of BA.
b) reading the FO the riot act and force them to get an OL
c) Not sure how, but restore Ben's confidence..

BURGH86STEEL
10-02-2011, 09:08 PM
if ben makes quicker decisions or doesn't leave the pocket so quick, the Oline would look better. the one time that really stands out was the time gilbert push williams past the pocket, but williams got to ben because ben left the pocket too early.

if ben had only trusted gilbert on that play....

I think there were times Ben left the pocket quickly because he perceived pressure when there wasn't any.

The Oline had issues this game. Oline did some things well in the 2nd half. It's not going to change as long as they have injuries and have the backups for the backups playing. Not being able to practice in pads more often is not going to help improve the situation.

Djfan
10-02-2011, 09:17 PM
I think there were times Ben left the pocket quickly because he perceived pressure when there wasn't any.

The Oline had issues this game. Oline did some things well in the 2nd half. It's not going to change as long as they have injuries and have the backups for the backups playing. Not being able to practice in pads more often is not going to help improve the situation.


I don't blame Ben for that. He might as well have no line. Just give him 10 receivers. We may do better.

As for the non-pad practices, it doesn't seem to be hurting other playoff teams this badly.

It's just our line being very crappy.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
10-02-2011, 09:24 PM
I believe Ben is getting worse, and it's because he is shell-shocked and completely appropriately doesn't trust his OL.

Blaming Ben for this team's offensive woes, given his OL, is like blaming a POW who has been electric tortured for 5 years for flinching every time he sees a set of jumper cables.

BURGH86STEEL
10-02-2011, 09:53 PM
I think there were times Ben left the pocket quickly because he perceived pressure when there wasn't any.

The Oline had issues this game. Oline did some things well in the 2nd half. It's not going to change as long as they have injuries and have the backups for the backups playing. Not being able to practice in pads more often is not going to help improve the situation.


I don't blame Ben for that. He might as well have no line. Just give him 10 receivers. We may do better.

As for the non-pad practices, it doesn't seem to be hurting other playoff teams this badly.

It's just our line being very crappy.
If Ben reacted to pressure when there wasn't any it was his fault.

How many of the playoffs teams loss both starting tackles and are playing with an injured left guard and center? That's the reality that this organization is facing going forward.

williar
10-02-2011, 09:59 PM
They use to say all of the same things about David Carr as well. No protection, OL was getting him killed, yada yada yada. Then came to the realization that it was David Carr.

grotonsteel
10-02-2011, 10:03 PM
They use to say all of the same things about David Carr as well. No protection, OL was getting him killed, yada yada yada. Then came to the realization that it was David Carr.

You are comparing Ben to David Carr. Wow why so much hate??? Last i saw Ben is still a Steelers.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
10-02-2011, 10:03 PM
They use to say all of the same things about David Carr as well. No protection, OL was getting him killed, yada yada yada. Then came to the realization that it was David Carr.

I think Ben has established creds that make the analogy less than completely perfect.

papillon
10-02-2011, 10:08 PM
if ben makes quicker decisions or doesn't leave the pocket so quick, the Oline would look better. the one time that really stands out was the time gilbert push williams past the pocket, but williams got to ben because ben left the pocket too early.

if ben had only trusted gilbert on that play....

What had Gilbert done all day that would inspire trust in him? Nothing, that's what, the offensive line was offensive, again.

He's leaving the pocket because he can't trust the line to hold a block even for 2 seconds. As soon as his back foot hits the ground you can see he's looking for defensive linemen and linebackers and not where the receivers are running routes. I can't blame him, today was pathetic bye the O-line.

Pappy

SanAntonioSteelerFan
10-02-2011, 10:11 PM
if ben makes quicker decisions or doesn't leave the pocket so quick, the Oline would look better. the one time that really stands out was the time gilbert push williams past the pocket, but williams got to ben because ben left the pocket too early.

if ben had only trusted gilbert on that play....

What had Gilbert done all day that would inspire trust in him? Nothing, that's what, the offensive line was offensive, again.

He's leaving the pocket because he can't trust the line to hold a block even for 2 seconds. As soon as his back foot hits the ground you can see he's looking for defensive linemen and linebackers and not where the receivers are running routes. I can't blame him, today was pathetic bye the O-line.

Pappy

:Agree , which makes me Redundant Man in a way ...

NJ-STEELER
10-02-2011, 10:11 PM
if ben makes quicker decisions or doesn't leave the pocket so quick, the Oline would look better. the one time that really stands out was the time gilbert push williams past the pocket, but williams got to ben because ben left the pocket too early.

if ben had only trusted gilbert on that play....

What had Gilbert done all day that would inspire trust in him? Nothing, that's what, the offensive line was offensive, again.

He's leaving the pocket because he can't trust the line to hold a block even for 2 seconds. As soon as his back foot hits the ground you can see he's looking for defensive linemen and linebackers and not where the receivers are running routes. I can't blame him, today was pathetic bye the O-line.

Pappy

the rip inside rush by the guy essux was trying to block was devastating. seemed like such an easy move for him to get into ben's face

RuthlessBurgher
10-02-2011, 10:15 PM
This is the worst oline that I can remember. They not only lack talent, they are dumb as well. Not a good combination.

Since there was already an Animal House reference in this thread, I might as well add another here: "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son." And that goes double for anyone who has the gall to compare Ben Roethlisberger to David Carr. :roll:

unionsteeler
10-02-2011, 10:32 PM
Ive lurked here along time... I cant take this anymore.

Ben is not an elite Qb worth $100 + million ! if you think about it when was the last time Ben had a good to great game ? Last year vs Cleveland maybe ? How can some people let him of the hook constantly no matter how terrible he plays ? Are you telling me since midyear last season the OLine hasnt played a good game ? I know Ben hasnt. The guy has 3 td passes all year. Hassleback had 3 today ! Rodgers 4 ! Ben underthrew Wallace in the last drive of the 2nd q and then misses a wide open sanders in the endzone ! That leaded to a blocked FG and no points on the drive that should have resulted in a TD TWICE !

Is the oline playing good....no. If Ben could make a quick read 3/4's of this oline talk goes away. Now he's hurt again ? he's been milking this "broken foot" since the 8th grade ! What happens if Batch starts next week and gets the win ? It will be everybodys win but Batch's mark my words. AS for nobody else can play behind this line is Horsecrap people have said that for years now.....3-1 without him last year and the D gave up the winner on the last drive.

Ben is not producing at even the average NFL Qb level....geez I think Chad Henne has more TD passes then Ben and there 0-4 ! yep justt checked even Andy Dalton has more! OMG!

Djfan
10-02-2011, 10:37 PM
When your line is Betty White, Steven Hawking, Pouncey, Nick Vujicic and Richard Simmons, you have a QB with issues.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
10-02-2011, 10:39 PM
When your line is Betty White, Steven Hawking, Pouncey, Nick Vujicic and Richard Simmons, you have a QB with issues.

As near as I can tell, Pouncey has had his insides sucked out by some alien, it just looks like him up there.

williar
10-02-2011, 10:43 PM
They use to say all of the same things about David Carr as well. No protection, OL was getting him killed, yada yada yada. Then came to the realization that it was David Carr.

You are comparing Ben to David Carr. Wow why so much hate??? Last i saw Ben is still a Steelers.

Just sayin'! Don't get things twisted....It's seems to be okay for everyone to criticize everyone and everything but Ben. I mean so many fans bashing the defense holding the texans to 17 points. Holding a team with a high powered offense to 17 points in this arena league style nfl. What more do you expect? For the defense to score 14 points too.

Ben has been in the same offense since coming into the league. He should be hands down the undisputed leader of this offense. He ain't doing something right and people don't want to admit it. Do you think the jets have a better OL than the steelers? I mean Mark Sanchez can find a way to scrap up some points and stay competitive... Albeit taking a beating....I find it hard to believe that all of these other teams out here have competent offensive lines and somehow ours just stinks to hell and don't belong in the nfl. I mean were all drafting from the same talent pool. I'm supposed to believe OL is so genetically inferior than every other team.

I truly believe the problems with this offense are a product of Ben being stubborn and refusing to better himself and Arians and Tomlin being the enablers.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
10-02-2011, 10:53 PM
They use to say all of the same things about David Carr as well. No protection, OL was getting him killed, yada yada yada. Then came to the realization that it was David Carr.

You are comparing Ben to David Carr. Wow why so much hate??? Last i saw Ben is still a Steelers.

Just sayin'! Don't get things twisted....It's seems to be okay for everyone to criticize everyone and everything but Ben. I mean so many fans bashing the defense holding the texans to 17 points. Holding a team with a high powered offense to 17 points in this arena league style nfl. What more do you expect? For the defense to score 14 points too.

Ben has been in the same offense since coming into the league. He should be hands down the undisputed leader of this offense. He ain't doing something right and people don't want to admit it. Do you think the jets have a better OL than the steelers? I mean Mark Sanchez can find a way to scrap up some points and stay competitive... Albeit taking a beating....I find it hard to believe that all of these other teams out here have competent offensive lines and somehow ours just stinks to hell and don't belong in the nfl. I mean were all drafting from the same talent pool. I'm supposed to believe OL is so genetically inferior than every other team.

I truly believe the problems with this offense are a product of Ben being stubborn and refusing to better himself and Arians and Tomlin being the enablers.

IMO you bring up some good points. But, there's a difference between criticizing Ben and comparing him to David Carr. Just sayin'.

flippy
10-02-2011, 10:56 PM
Through 4 games:

85 for 138 (61% completions)
1148 yards
3 TDs
5 Ints
4 Fumbles Lost
14 Sacks


I get the NFL is a team game and QB's tend to get too much credit when they win and too much blame when they lose.

But Ben's putting up worse numbers than Cam Newton. And he's doing it at a time when the rules are swinging in the offense's favor.

As bad as we've been playing collectively, if Ben was on his game, we could be 4-0.

We've played bad before and been able to win ugly if/when Ben plays well. Even if we just get 2-3 good series out of the guy.

And I'm not trying to make the point that Ben's David Carr. Just that he's not playing well. He deserves most of the blame - he's the $100M man on offense. And he's not really getting called out for his subpar play.

And we've seen the guy succeed with a subpar line, no running game, and worse WRs.

He doesn't need an excuse. Sure, he deserves some excuses, but I've seen him do more with less before.

grotonsteel
10-02-2011, 10:59 PM
They use to say all of the same things about David Carr as well. No protection, OL was getting him killed, yada yada yada. Then came to the realization that it was David Carr.

You are comparing Ben to David Carr. Wow why so much hate??? Last i saw Ben is still a Steelers.

Just sayin'! Don't get things twisted....It's seems to be okay for everyone to criticize everyone and everything but Ben. I mean so many fans bashing the defense holding the texans to 17 points. Holding a team with a high powered offense to 17 points in this arena league style nfl. What more do you expect? For the defense to score 14 points too.

Ben has been in the same offense since coming into the league. He should be hands down the undisputed leader of this offense. He ain't doing something right and people don't want to admit it. Do you think the jets have a better OL than the steelers? I mean Mark Sanchez can find a way to scrap up some points and stay competitive... Albeit taking a beating....I find it hard to believe that all of these other teams out here have competent offensive lines and somehow ours just stinks to hell and don't belong in the nfl. I mean were all drafting from the same talent pool. I'm supposed to believe OL is so genetically inferior than every other team.

I truly believe the problems with this offense are a product of Ben being stubborn and refusing to better himself and Arians and Tomlin being the enablers.

I aint twisting anything.You said it and i quoted you.

Second thing you are now saying Sanchez is doing better than Ben against Ratbird. WTF. 1 TD by ST and 1 TD by Defense and you are saying Sanchez is doing better than Ben against Ratbirds??? I am not talking about 2 sack fumbles return for TD and 1 INT returned for TD. Did Ben played that horrible against Ratbirds??? It just shows you hate for Ben.

Jets had best Offensive line last season. they have an injured probowl Center in mangold this game but Jets has best LT and OC in NFL. And guess where they were drafted?? Jets O-line was one of the best in NFL last season. And guess what where they drafted there O-linemen??

If you don't believe Steelers O-line is a problem i guess you need to remove Ben-Hate goggles and watch the game. A team with 2 starting OT injured and LG/OC playing injured and you think O-line is not a problem??????

SanAntonioSteelerFan
10-02-2011, 11:13 PM
I'm just saying that we would have no way of knowing whether Ben sucked the big wazoo worse than any other QB in football today ... or was the 2nd coming himself ...

as long as he played behind this OL. Can you imagine "Fetal Position" Payton Manning behind this line? Or Marsha Brady* - remember how she crumples like a rough draft origami swan with pressure?

I don't think I've ever seen Ben charged with succeeding behind a line this bad, but I may be wrong.

flippy
10-02-2011, 11:16 PM
I'm just saying that we would have no way of knowing whether Ben sucked the big wazoo worse than any other QB in football today ... or was the 2nd coming himself ...

as long as he played behind this OL. Can you imagine "Fetal Position" Payton Manning behind this line? Or Marsha Brady* - remember how she crumples like a rough draft origami swan with pressure?

I don't think I've ever seen Ben charged with succeeding behind a line this bad, but I may be wrong.

In fairness to Peyton, he'd audible out of Mendy up the middle.

Djfan
10-02-2011, 11:18 PM
I'm just saying that we would have no way of knowing whether Ben sucked the big wazoo worse than any other QB in football today ... or was the 2nd coming himself ...

as long as he played behind this OL. Can you imagine "Fetal Position" Payton Manning behind this line? Or Marsha Brady* - remember how she crumples like a rough draft origami swan with pressure?

I don't think I've ever seen Ben charged with succeeding behind a line this bad, but I may be wrong.

In fairness to Peyton, he'd audible out of Mendy up the middle.

And throw his line under the bus in a presser.

Scarletfire1970
10-02-2011, 11:22 PM
If Peyton and Brady are so perfect why does Peyton only have one SB throwing 3 TDs and 7 picks in that run to his only title and Brady has been one and done in the playoffs the past few years.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
10-02-2011, 11:25 PM
I'm just saying that we would have no way of knowing whether Ben sucked the big wazoo worse than any other QB in football today ... or was the 2nd coming himself ...

as long as he played behind this OL. Can you imagine "Fetal Position" Payton Manning behind this line? Or Marsha Brady* - remember how she crumples like a rough draft origami swan with pressure?

I don't think I've ever seen Ben charged with succeeding behind a line this bad, but I may be wrong.

In fairness to Peyton, he'd audible out of Mendy up the middle.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

williar
10-03-2011, 11:00 AM
They use to say all of the same things about David Carr as well. No protection, OL was getting him killed, yada yada yada. Then came to the realization that it was David Carr.

You are comparing Ben to David Carr. Wow why so much hate??? Last i saw Ben is still a Steelers.

Just sayin'! Don't get things twisted....It's seems to be okay for everyone to criticize everyone and everything but Ben. I mean so many fans bashing the defense holding the texans to 17 points. Holding a team with a high powered offense to 17 points in this arena league style nfl. What more do you expect? For the defense to score 14 points too.

Ben has been in the same offense since coming into the league. He should be hands down the undisputed leader of this offense. He ain't doing something right and people don't want to admit it. Do you think the jets have a better OL than the steelers? I mean Mark Sanchez can find a way to scrap up some points and stay competitive... Albeit taking a beating....I find it hard to believe that all of these other teams out here have competent offensive lines and somehow ours just stinks to hell and don't belong in the nfl. I mean were all drafting from the same talent pool. I'm supposed to believe OL is so genetically inferior than every other team.

I truly believe the problems with this offense are a product of Ben being stubborn and refusing to better himself and Arians and Tomlin being the enablers.

I aint twisting anything.You said it and i quoted you.

Second thing you are now saying Sanchez is doing better than Ben against Ratbird. WTF. 1 TD by ST and 1 TD by Defense and you are saying Sanchez is doing better than Ben against Ratbirds??? I am not talking about 2 sack fumbles return for TD and 1 INT returned for TD. Did Ben played that horrible against Ratbirds??? It just shows you hate for Ben.

Jets had best Offensive line last season. they have an injured probowl Center in mangold this game but Jets has best LT and OC in NFL. And guess where they were drafted?? Jets O-line was one of the best in NFL last season. And guess what where they drafted there O-linemen??

If you don't believe Steelers O-line is a problem i guess you need to remove Ben-Hate goggles and watch the game. A team with 2 starting OT injured and LG/OC playing injured and you think O-line is not a problem??????

I didn't retract anything. But Does that make me a hater because I stated a fact that the same things were said about David Carr. For years Carr was defended because it was said his line was so bad. He couldn't do this or that because his line was getting him killed. After Carr left houston and that alleged awful line behind, I don't think much was heard from Carr. After that there was much clarification about was really all on the OL or if David Carr just couldn't get out of his own way....I see some similarities, but take as you will.

Again, we can agree to disagree about the jets OL. I don't think their one of the best OL this year. But then, you really wouldn't know because Mark Sanchez will get the ball out of his hands as opposed to being a sack dummy...

feltdizz
10-03-2011, 11:08 AM
I remember in 2008 when we didn't score an offensive TD for 10 quarters and Ben was struggling in the Washington game. Lefty comes in and marches us down the field on 5 or 6 plays.

What we found out that day was Ben wasn't practicing, wasn't in rhythm and wasn't seeing what the D was giving him. I think it might be the same thing right now.

The OL isn't good but this is nothing new.... gotta get the rock out and Ben did try a few Hots and the WR's failed him.

grotonsteel
10-03-2011, 12:05 PM
They use to say all of the same things about David Carr as well. No protection, OL was getting him killed, yada yada yada. Then came to the realization that it was David Carr.

You are comparing Ben to David Carr. Wow why so much hate??? Last i saw Ben is still a Steelers.

Just sayin'! Don't get things twisted....It's seems to be okay for everyone to criticize everyone and everything but Ben. I mean so many fans bashing the defense holding the texans to 17 points. Holding a team with a high powered offense to 17 points in this arena league style nfl. What more do you expect? For the defense to score 14 points too.

Ben has been in the same offense since coming into the league. He should be hands down the undisputed leader of this offense. He ain't doing something right and people don't want to admit it. Do you think the jets have a better OL than the steelers? I mean Mark Sanchez can find a way to scrap up some points and stay competitive... Albeit taking a beating....I find it hard to believe that all of these other teams out here have competent offensive lines and somehow ours just stinks to hell and don't belong in the nfl. I mean were all drafting from the same talent pool. I'm supposed to believe OL is so genetically inferior than every other team.

I truly believe the problems with this offense are a product of Ben being stubborn and refusing to better himself and Arians and Tomlin being the enablers.

I aint twisting anything.You said it and i quoted you.

Second thing you are now saying Sanchez is doing better than Ben against Ratbird. WTF. 1 TD by ST and 1 TD by Defense and you are saying Sanchez is doing better than Ben against Ratbirds??? I am not talking about 2 sack fumbles return for TD and 1 INT returned for TD. Did Ben played that horrible against Ratbirds??? It just shows you hate for Ben.

Jets had best Offensive line last season. they have an injured probowl Center in mangold this game but Jets has best LT and OC in NFL. And guess where they were drafted?? Jets O-line was one of the best in NFL last season. And guess what where they drafted there O-linemen??

If you don't believe Steelers O-line is a problem i guess you need to remove Ben-Hate goggles and watch the game. A team with 2 starting OT injured and LG/OC playing injured and you think O-line is not a problem??????

I didn't retract anything. But Does that make me a hater because I stated a fact that the same things were said about David Carr. For years Carr was defended because it was said his line was so bad. He couldn't do this or that because his line was getting him killed. After Carr left houston and that alleged awful line behind, I don't think much was heard from Carr. After that there was much clarification about was really all on the OL or if David Carr just couldn't get out of his own way....I see some similarities, but take as you will.

Again, we can agree to disagree about the jets OL. I don't think their one of the best OL this year. But then, you really wouldn't know because Mark Sanchez will get the ball out of his hands as opposed to being a sack dummy...


Watch the ratbirds game.. You are happy that Sanchez was Getting the ball out quick???? He completed 11 passes out of 35 for 120 yards. You want that performance for your QB???

He had 2 sack fumble returned for TD. He had an INT returned for TD. I prefer taking a sack rather than giving 21 points to your opponents.

Sanchez Stats:
New York Jets Comp Att Yds Pct Y/A Sack YdsL TD Int Rating
Mark Sanchez(notes) 11 35 119 31.4 3.4 2 7 0 1 30.5


You are telling me you will take this play over Ben????You from Steelers43 fanclub???

papillon
10-03-2011, 12:10 PM
You are telling me you will take this play over Ben????You from Steelers43 fanclub???

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Pappy

skyhawk
10-03-2011, 08:40 PM
If there's ANYONE who know that he needs to play better it would be BR.

I think he makes a statement against the Titans.

Vindrow
10-03-2011, 09:50 PM
Ben, the O-Line, Arians, Tomlin, and the rest of the coaches have their share of the blame, but I also place a big part of the blame on Rooney and Colbert for allowing the O-Line to get this bad and not addressing earlier.

NJ-STEELER
10-03-2011, 11:34 PM
, you really wouldn't know because Mark Sanchez will get the ball out of his hands as opposed to being a sack dummy...

LOL

skyhawk
10-04-2011, 01:29 AM
Ben, the O-Line, Arians, Tomlin, and the rest of the coaches have their share of the blame, but I also place a big part of the blame on Rooney and Colbert for allowing the O-Line to get this bad and not addressing earlier.

I agree they have ignored the line in the past drafts, but I don't think any franchise can handle losing 4 starting tackles in the span of 6 ish months.

hawaiiansteel
10-04-2011, 02:15 AM
Ben Roethlisberger civil case ongoing

By Adam Schefter - ESPN
Updated: October 2, 2011


Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Ben Roethlisberger missed a portion of Wednesday's practice for a conference call pertaining to the ongoing civil case in which he is one of nine co-defendants, according to a source.

Though the NFL has asked Roethlisberger to settle the case, stemming from from a rape accusation at a Lake Tahoe celebrity golf event in July 2008, Roethlisberger has steadfastly refused because he doesn't believe he did anything wrong.

Andrea McNulty, a former Harrah's VIP hostess, has accused the two-time Super Bowl winner of raping her in his penthouse suite in July 2008, when Roethlisberger was at Lake Tahoe for a celebrity golf tournament.

Her suit seeks a minimum of $440,000 in damages from Roethlisberger, at least $50,000 in damages from the Harrah's officials and an unspecified amount of punitive damages.

Those who know Roethlisberger well believe he hasn't allowed the case to become a distraction, but the case took a bite out of Roethlisberger's practice schedule this week as the Steelers were preparing for Sunday's game versus the Houston Texans.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/70500 ... ource-says (http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/7050049/ben-roethlisberger-pittsburgh-steelers-missed-practice-call-civil-suit-source-says)

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
10-04-2011, 02:19 AM
if ben makes quicker decisions or doesn't leave the pocket so quick, the Oline would look better. the one time that really stands out was the time gilbert push williams past the pocket, but williams got to ben because ben left the pocket too early.

if ben had only trusted gilbert on that play....

So the problem is that Ben does not trust his line enough??? :wft

NJ-STEELER
10-04-2011, 03:22 AM
watching the high light wrap up shows, i think they only showed 1 instance of a big play coming when the defense blitzed. hasselback to washington quickly for a long gainer. also was the manning nicks winning TD. cards blitzed but didnt get there in time

the rest of the TDs/ big plays they showed all had the QB set up in the pocket with lots of time. rivers looked like he had 5 seconds on the 2 long balls to jackson

there was another play by cassel that had a blitz (5 man rush) come at him but it got picked up and he wasnt under any duress.

funny, i dont remeber that much pressure on the long TD to wallace in the colts game nor the long gainer in the seahawks game

take that for what its worth

also, merril showed a clip of just how poorly our OL is performing. a basic vanilla stunt got to ben in 1.5 seconds. highlighting an LB beating the LG in a matchup from the LOS

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
10-04-2011, 08:35 AM
Thought you guys might get a kick out of Dulac's Tweet...I did.


gerrydulac Gerry Dulac
Steelers offensive line will be security agents at Pgh airport today. That way everyone gets thru quicker.

feltdizz
10-04-2011, 09:14 AM
watching the high light wrap up shows, i think they only showed 1 instance of a big play coming when the defense blitzed. hasselback to washington quickly for a long gainer. also was the manning nicks winning TD. cards blitzed but didnt get there in time

the rest of the TDs/ big plays they showed all had the QB set up in the pocket with lots of time. rivers looked like he had 5 seconds on the 2 long balls to jackson

there was another play by cassel that had a blitz (5 man rush) come at him but it got picked up and he wasnt under any duress.

funny, i dont remeber that much pressure on the long TD to wallace in the colts game nor the long gainer in the seahawks game

take that for what its worth

also, merril showed a clip of just how poorly our OL is performing. a basic vanilla stunt got to ben in 1.5 seconds. highlighting an LB beating the LG in a matchup from the LOS

It's not worth much... one play doesn't show how any of these teams OL's performed all game. Also have to look at how the QB's performed when the line broke down. Did they take the sack? Dump it off? Change the play at the line?