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View Full Version : Tomlin Take Control or be Fired.



steelz09
10-02-2011, 02:12 PM
There comes a time when Tomlin needs to step in ... the problem is he doesn't have a backbone. Some obvious things Tomlin should address that continues to hinder this team.

1) DJ is not a starter in the NFL.. not even for the chiefs. He should never see the field unless a injury occurs.

2) The age of the defense. Lebeau needs to let the youngsters see the field. The youngsters on the D need to play more along the D-line (McLendon & Hood especially) as well as the secondary. If the d-line didn't suck so bad and teams were forced to throw like last year, our poor secondary would be exposed. It's time that Allen and Brown see the field.

3) The o-line. I'm tired of seeing this year after year after year. It's unacceptable that this hasn't been addressed.

4) Timmons is overrated as an all-around ILB. He's definitely above average in pass coverage but he is not a top tier ILB on running plays. Comparing him to Patrick Willis is laughable if you actually watch the two play.

5) Arians, the stubborn bastard needs to be replaced. We say it year after year. This guy has weapons at this disposal and our offense is pathetic. Granted our o-line is terrible but his stubbornness worsens the situation. The run run pass play calls are terribly predictable. The long developing plays w/ a poor o-line is unacceptable. And not giving Redman his share of carries is unacceptable. Oh yea, and #1 (DJ playing) is unacceptable.

If this doesn't get corrected and corrected soon, the Rooneys need to step in.

I'll never question Tomlin's intelligence because I think he is a football junkie and a smart guy but I question the guys backbone and ability to take control when need be. If he can't do that, then this team will continue to decline and he should be shown the door.

Steelhere10
10-02-2011, 02:28 PM
I agree, he need to step up make some kind the of statement. And don't forget the sorry @zz kicker that 500 teams passed on but we think he fit in on this team.

NW Steeler
10-02-2011, 02:31 PM
Sad to watch. I guess we had our run with this team, but it certainly looks like we need to be rebuilt. I guess the good news is that we will have some pretty good draft picks next year.

DrCalculus
10-02-2011, 04:23 PM
I'm sorry, were you saying something NW Steeler? Hard to concentrate on your point in that last post with my eyes being poked out by you sig photo. :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs

Djfan
10-02-2011, 04:26 PM
I agree. Tomlin needs to be accountable to more than cliches. I'm not impressed much anymore. Do something, Mike.

It's like they think that they can rally the team to be productive on any play that is called. It could be 17 QB sneaks in a row, and he would give them a cliche as to why they need to score at least 16 TDs with that play calling.

Lame.

Oviedo
10-03-2011, 01:50 PM
Really? What do you think the headcoach can do? Scrap the offense part way through the season? Order a defensive scheme change?

The team is on the train they booked a ticket on when the season started. There ain't no getting off halfway. This was not a normal off season so teams had to stay with what they had because they wasn't going to be a chance to implement changes.

I won't criticize Tomlin unless he keeps Arians and Lebeau after this season. BOTH need to go and get some fresh perspectives on both side of the football.

RuthlessBurgher
10-03-2011, 02:04 PM
Yeah, let's fire this coach, a mere 8 months after he led this team to the Super Bowl, his second trip to the Super Bowl in 4 years as a head coach by the way, and the youngest head coach to win a Super Bowl championship ring. Oh no...he's 2-2 with 3 out of those first 4 played on the road...trade in your pink NFL breast cancer awareness apparel for a pink slip. That's brilliant. :roll:

http://images3.cliqueclack.com/tv/files/2011/04/brilliant.jpg

NW Steeler
10-03-2011, 02:06 PM
I'm sorry, were you saying something NW Steeler? Hard to concentrate on your point in that last post with my eyes being poked out by you sig photo. :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs

Motorboat!!!!

steelerkeylargo
10-03-2011, 02:07 PM
Seriously? You people are delusional. Tomlin's job is as safe as any coaches in the NFL. :wft

hawaiiansteel
10-03-2011, 02:15 PM
Tomlin isn't even 40 years old yet, his best coaching days are still ahead of him and I hope they will all be with the Steelers.

but Bruce Arians is a different story, why he continues to call slow-developing 7 step-drop passing plays behind this OL is beyond me. hopefully Brucie will do us all a favor and retire at the end of this season...

steelblood
10-03-2011, 02:27 PM
I don't understand why some say that the offensive line has been terrible for years and never gets addressed.

2010
1st round pick Pouncey
UFA Flozell Adams

Not only did they address issues, the offensive line played pretty well in the playoffs and created some running lanes and was adequate in pass pro.

2011
2nd round pick Marcus Gilbert
Willie Colon signed to multi-year deal

To say this team has done nothing to fix the problem is sheer lunacy.

Now, if you want to say that their moves have not fixed the problem, you may have a point. But, this team has made investments in the offensive line. And, they will continue to do so until the situation improves. Now, the problem is that sometimes revamping an offensive line takes a few years.

Pahn711
10-03-2011, 02:32 PM
Yeah, let's fire this coach, a mere 8 months after he led this team to the Super Bowl, his second trip to the Super Bowl in 4 years as a head coach by the way, and the youngest head coach to win a Super Bowl championship ring. Oh no...he's 2-2 with 3 out of those first 4 played on the road...trade in your pink NFL breast cancer awareness apparel for a pink slip. That's brilliant. :roll:


:Agree This thread is some trademark overreaction and gives Steelers fans a bad name. We are spoiled with several super bowl appearances in the past decade and people are already jumping ship. You guys are in serious need of some perspective, go be Browns fans for a few years.

Oviedo
10-03-2011, 02:45 PM
Tomlin isn't even 40 years old yet, his best coaching days are still ahead of him and I hope they will all be with the Steelers.

but Bruce Arians is a different story, why he continues to call slow-developing 7 step-drop passing plays behind this OL is beyond me. hopefully Brucie will do us all a favor and retire at the end of this season...

:Agree about Arians and why not just make it a huge celebration and have him take LeBeau with him. Did anyone see any adjustments on the defensive side of the ball yesterday? LeBeau was just as bad as Arians.

Djfan
10-03-2011, 05:13 PM
Really? What do you think the headcoach can do? Scrap the offense part way through the season? Order a defensive scheme change?

The team is on the train they booked a ticket on when the season started. There ain't no getting off halfway. This was not a normal off season so teams had to stay with what they had because they wasn't going to be a chance to implement changes.

I won't criticize Tomlin unless he keeps Arians and Lebeau after this season. BOTH need to go and get some fresh perspectives on both side of the football.


This is my only gripe worthy of this thread. I have been calling for BA's firing for a long time now. The other stuff about age, etc. is understandable, though.

anger 82&95
10-03-2011, 06:13 PM
I'm sorry, were you saying something NW Steeler? Hard to concentrate on your point in that last post with my eyes being poked out by you sig photo. :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs
LOL! Exactly...

NW Steeler
10-03-2011, 06:24 PM
I'm sorry, were you saying something NW Steeler? Hard to concentrate on your point in that last post with my eyes being poked out by you sig photo. :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs
LOL! Exactly...

Would you guys prefer that I take her out of my sig?

steelz09
10-03-2011, 07:12 PM
im obviously outnumbered here but i would still consider the firing of tomlin if this continues.

Shall I bring up that he won the SB with the majority of Cowher's personnel? Yea, I said it. :stirpot

Now that it's time for "his" splash players to perform, where are they? His #1 splash player of all time is overrated by Steelers fans...... Timmons. Like I said in previous posts... comparing him to Patrick Willis is laughable.

BURGH86STEEL
10-03-2011, 07:21 PM
Yeah, let's fire this coach, a mere 8 months after he led this team to the Super Bowl, his second trip to the Super Bowl in 4 years as a head coach by the way, and the youngest head coach to win a Super Bowl championship ring. Oh no...he's 2-2 with 3 out of those first 4 played on the road...trade in your pink NFL breast cancer awareness apparel for a pink slip. That's brilliant. :roll:

http://images3.cliqueclack.com/tv/files/2011/04/brilliant.jpg
I agree. I don't know what to think of the schizophrenic nature of some Steelers fans.

NW Steeler
10-03-2011, 07:23 PM
im obviously outnumbered here but i would still consider the firing of tomlin if this continues.

Shall I bring up that he won the SB with the majority of Cowher's personnel? Yea, I said it. :stirpot

Now that it's time for "his" splash players to perform, where are they? His #1 splash player of all time is overrated by Steelers fans...... Timmons. Like I said in previous posts... comparing him to Patrick Willis is laughable.

If you have an issue with draft pics during Tomlin's regime, you may need to place more of the burden on Colbert. Timmons was a reach, but then it looked like we got a steal with Woodley. His performance so far this year has been much more concerning.

SanAntonioSteelerFan
10-03-2011, 08:13 PM
I think Tomlin has a lot of blame for things like:

- the hot receivers not turning around on a blitz,
- bonehead receivers jumping over the guy who just intercepted the ball on you
- fielding kickoffs or punts inside the 10 yard line,
- Ben holding on to the ball forever when it's a play designed for a 3 step drop (against the Dolts last week when it was J. Scott that everyone was blaming at first),
- etc. etc. etc.

In other words, to my eye it looks like attention to detail has become optional with the players ... who get the attitude from the assistants ... who get it from the coordinators ... who get it from Tomlin.

But fire him? I think at most a private woodshed by the Rooney's is all that's called for. These are trying times personnel-wise, it certainly goes beyond just what Tomlin can control?

As I said in the "deal with the devil" thread - our GM put money over the last 10 years in the right places - we got to 3 SBs in 5 years, and won 2 of them. Other teams would die for 1 crumb of that victory pie. But that can't go on forever, and the laws of physics say we are due for rebuilding.

I think it's incredible that we got to the SB last year with our O-line, and with people like Gay, Bmac, ARE, and other retreads, but we did and I think that happened only because we are the PITTSBURGH STEELERS. Any other franchise would have folded in the regular season, much less do what we did.

Will we get to the post-season this year? Well, it ain't over till it's over!!

OK, back to saying 3 Hail Francos, and counting Rocky beads ...

fezziwig
10-03-2011, 08:19 PM
I wish I knew or if someone could tell me how, a NFL teams front office and coaches work together.
Does Tomlin get to request the players he would like to upgrade or does Colbert and Rooney tell him to make do with what he has ?

This front office/coaches/players have been smoking there own hype for some time now. They continue to pat theirselves on the back about, we can make it with the o-linemen we have but it has finally caught up to them.
They better get used to the smell of Bens asss and continue to kiss it because without Bens mobility, the offense would do even worse with the o-line they continue with.
this has been a problem for years and the only thing they really done about it was Pouncey and one guy is not enough.
Our tackles stink, our guards stink. I'll give Gilbert some slack because he is new.
Kemo is a second stringer
Foster is a third stringer
Legursky is between a second and third stringer
Colon always stunk
Pouncey to me has hit the sophmore wall.
Essex is a second stringer
and our second stringers are not good ones at that.

All the moaning or coaching in the world will not make these guys any better.

Do the Steelers consider the intelligence of these players when the sign them to the team ? Most of the time they look stupid out on the field with missing blocks, not turning around for passes and what have you.

Pahn711
10-03-2011, 08:21 PM
Shall I bring up that he won the SB with the majority of Cowher's personnel? Yea, I said it. :stirpot

Now that it's time for "his" splash players to perform, where are they? His #1 splash player of all time is overrated by Steelers fans...... Timmons. Like I said in previous posts... comparing him to Patrick Willis is laughable.

Cowher himself dismisses the argument that Tomlin is winning with the former coach's team. There may be plenty similar players between them, but as we are seeing this year, you never know what team will show up from one season to the next.

Besides the fact that you could blame Colbert as much as Tomlin for draft success, they have been able to hit on every first round pick and find several serviceable backups (even a few starters) in each draft class. Thats no different than the Cowher drafts, for the most part.

NW Steeler
10-04-2011, 12:07 AM
I think Tomlin has a lot of blame for things like:

- the hot receivers not turning around on a blitz,
- bonehead receivers jumping over the guy who just intercepted the ball on you
- fielding kickoffs or punts inside the 10 yard line,
- Ben holding on to the ball forever when it's a play designed for a 3 step drop (against the Dolts last week when it was J. Scott that everyone was blaming at first),
- etc. etc. etc.

In other words, to my eye it looks like attention to detail has become optional with the players ... who get the attitude from the assistants ... who get it from the coordinators ... who get it from Tomlin.

But fire him? I think at most a private woodshed by the Rooney's is all that's called for. These are trying times personnel-wise, it certainly goes beyond just what Tomlin can control?

As I said in the "deal with the devil" thread - our GM put money over the last 10 years in the right places - we got to 3 SBs in 5 years, and won 2 of them. Other teams would die for 1 crumb of that victory pie. But that can't go on forever, and the laws of physics say we are due for rebuilding.

I think it's incredible that we got to the SB last year with our O-line, and with people like Gay, Bmac, ARE, and other retreads, but we did and I think that happened only because we are the PITTSBURGH STEELERS. Any other franchise would have folded in the regular season, much less do what we did.

Will we get to the post-season this year? Well, it ain't over till it's over!!

OK, back to saying 3 Hail Francos, and counting Rocky beads ...

GREAT post. :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
10-04-2011, 09:32 AM
[quote=DrCalculus]I'm sorry, were you saying something NW Steeler? Hard to concentrate on your point in that last post with my eyes being poked out by you sig photo. :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs
LOL! Exactly...

Would you guys prefer that I take her out of my sig?[/quote:2tsp0oia]

No, I'd prefer that you make your sig bigger. What's with the tiny thumbnail? :Bow :Bow :Bow

Oviedo
10-04-2011, 09:39 AM
I think Tomlin has a lot of blame for things like:

- the hot receivers not turning around on a blitz,
- bonehead receivers jumping over the guy who just intercepted the ball on you
- fielding kickoffs or punts inside the 10 yard line,
- Ben holding on to the ball forever when it's a play designed for a 3 step drop (against the Dolts last week when it was J. Scott that everyone was blaming at first),
- etc. etc. etc.

In other words, to my eye it looks like attention to detail has become optional with the players ... who get the attitude from the assistants ... who get it from the coordinators ... who get it from Tomlin.

But fire him? I think at most a private woodshed by the Rooney's is all that's called for. These are trying times personnel-wise, it certainly goes beyond just what Tomlin can control?

As I said in the "deal with the devil" thread - our GM put money over the last 10 years in the right places - we got to 3 SBs in 5 years, and won 2 of them. Other teams would die for 1 crumb of that victory pie. But that can't go on forever, and the laws of physics say we are due for rebuilding.

I think it's incredible that we got to the SB last year with our O-line, and with people like Gay, Bmac, ARE, and other retreads, but we did and I think that happened only because we are the PITTSBURGH STEELERS. Any other franchise would have folded in the regular season, much less do what we did.

Will we get to the post-season this year? Well, it ain't over till it's over!!

OK, back to saying 3 Hail Francos, and counting Rocky beads ...

GREAT post. :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap


:Agree :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap

But now we are seeing sufficient evidence and need to reassess the approach we have taken and get some new blood in starting with both coordinator positions. If players are not executing I blame the coordinators far, far more than the head coach. They have the direct responsibility to get players ready for each and every game. Both coordimators are failing this season and both should go.

feltdizz
10-04-2011, 09:45 AM
Winning with Cowhers players? Cowher had a good run but how many SB's did he win with all those great teams?

Once we got Ben it was much easier to win SB's... it has nothing to do with Cowher's players. This isn't college....

feltdizz
10-04-2011, 09:48 AM
:Agree :Clap :Clap :Clap :Clap

But now we are seeing sufficient evidence and need to reassess the approach we have taken and get some new blood in starting with both coordinator positions. If players are not executing I blame the coordinators far, far more than the head coach. They have the direct responsibility to get players ready for each and every game. Both coordimators are failing this season and both should go.

The only problem with this logic is everyone else gets the credit when we win games and SB's... it's always "in spite of" but as soon as we lose it's all due to the OC's.

Once we get new OC's we will see the same problem or a whole new set of problems they won't address because we rarely blame the actual players on the plays that fail.

steelz09
10-04-2011, 09:54 AM
Shall I bring up that he won the SB with the majority of Cowher's personnel? Yea, I said it. :stirpot

Now that it's time for "his" splash players to perform, where are they? His #1 splash player of all time is overrated by Steelers fans...... Timmons. Like I said in previous posts... comparing him to Patrick Willis is laughable.

Cowher himself dismisses the argument that Tomlin is winning with the former coach's team. There may be plenty similar players between them, but as we are seeing this year, you never know what team will show up from one season to the next.

Besides the fact that you could blame Colbert as much as Tomlin for draft success, they have been able to hit on every first round pick and find several serviceable backups (even a few starters) in each draft class. Thats no different than the Cowher drafts, for the most part.

Cowher gave the politically correct answer. But in reality, a large portion of the starters were from the Cowher-era.

No doubt that Colbert has hit on the majority of our first rounders. He is not been great in the other 6 rounds though. You can't just blame Colbert, Arians, Lebeau or whatever. Tomlin is the HC at the end of the day. They follow his leadership.

It's well known Cowher had a lot of say in the draft process. If Tomlin doesn't, then he needs to be. He's coaching the team and is responsible for their overall performance. If they're winning he gets the credit, when they're losing he gets the heat. It's not a one way street. How can you blame only Arians over the past several years? Tomlin is the guy that kept him around.... He had the ability to make the change and decided not to.

Djfan
10-04-2011, 09:59 AM
Everyone needs to understand that when we change OC or even DC we will enter into a new scheme, which means that the players we have my not be the best for that scheme. They were picked and groomed for the current schemes and may not adapt well.

Sometimes I wonder of the schemes we have are known to Tomlin. I know that sounds harsh and I don't mean it to, but it wouldn't surprise me if he were waiting around for Bad Word LeBeau to leave so he can put his plan in.

As for the offensive scheme, it just seems to be "use only 7 plays and see what Ben can do anyway."

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
10-04-2011, 10:27 AM
Sorry jh, while we all share your frustration, your post is unrealistic. Unless this team goes 2-14, Tomlin is at no risk of being fired.

This is the most stable organization in football. This is the only HC job in the league in which you know upon being hired that it is safe to buy a house and not merely rent.

Third coach since 1969. This does not happen because the Rooneys start thinking about firing a coach with a 2-2 team.

Djfan
10-04-2011, 10:32 AM
Sorry jh, while we all share your frustration, your post is unrealistic. Unless this team goes 2-14, Tomlin is at no risk of being fired.

This is the most stable organization in football. This is the only HC job in the league in which you know upon being hired that it is safe to buy a house and not merely rent.

Third coach since 1969. This does not happen because the Rooneys start thinking about firing a coach with a 2-2 team.


Right. I think he is just expressing frustration. The fact is that there are leadership issues, and the do start and stop with Tomlin.

I am listeing to 93.7 The Fan right now, and a caller is making this point. It's pretty clear.

steelz09
10-04-2011, 10:53 AM
Sorry jh, while we all share your frustration, your post is unrealistic. Unless this team goes 2-14, Tomlin is at no risk of being fired.

This is the most stable organization in football. This is the only HC job in the league in which you know upon being hired that it is safe to buy a house and not merely rent.

Third coach since 1969. This does not happen because the Rooneys start thinking about firing a coach with a 2-2 team.


Right. I think he is just expressing frustration. The fact is that there are leadership issues, and the do start and stop with Tomlin.

I am listeing to 93.7 The Fan right now, and a caller is making this point. It's pretty clear.

I know it's unlikely to happen. I'm just making the point that you can't blame OC, DC, GMs, etc without the HC taking the blame. He's at the top and has the power to invoke changes to personnel decisions (both players and coaches). If Tomlin wants Hood to start instead of Smith, he has that power. If he wants DJ to be replaced in favor of a true FB, he has that power. If Tomlin wants to get Flozell and/or Starks back before his franchise QB gets killed, he needs to talk to Colbert & the Rooneys. If Tomlin allows Arians to just continue what he's doing without invoking change, it's just as much Tomlin's fault as it is Arians.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Rooney's make a statement like they did about running the ball more.

Speaking of the Rooneys, I was surprised that we were going to wait to sign Polamalu after this season until the Rooney's stepped in and said they wanted to get it done before this season. And what happened? It got done. Now that's leadership. And who is the best player on this team right now.... big surprise, Polamalu.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
10-04-2011, 12:04 PM
Sorry jh, while we all share your frustration, your post is unrealistic. Unless this team goes 2-14, Tomlin is at no risk of being fired.

This is the most stable organization in football. This is the only HC job in the league in which you know upon being hired that it is safe to buy a house and not merely rent.

Third coach since 1969. This does not happen because the Rooneys start thinking about firing a coach with a 2-2 team.


Right. I think he is just expressing frustration. The fact is that there are leadership issues, and the do start and stop with Tomlin.

I am listeing to 93.7 The Fan right now, and a caller is making this point. It's pretty clear.

I know it's unlikely to happen. I'm just making the point that you can't blame OC, DC, GMs, etc without the HC taking the blame. He's at the top and has the power to invoke changes to personnel decisions (both players and coaches). If Tomlin wants Hood to start instead of Smith, he has that power. If he wants DJ to be replaced in favor of a true FB, he has that power. If Tomlin wants to get Flozell and/or Starks back before his franchise QB gets killed, he needs to talk to Colbert & the Rooneys. If Tomlin allows Arians to just continue what he's doing without invoking change, it's just as much Tomlin's fault as it is Arians.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Rooney's make a statement like they did about running the ball more.

Speaking of the Rooneys, I was surprised that we were going to wait to sign Polamalu after this season until the Rooney's stepped in and said they wanted to get it done before this season. And what happened? It got done. Now that's leadership. And who is the best player on this team right now.... big surprise, Polamalu.

I know and I agree with the frustration regarding the product on the field. I see too many errors in execution and discipline. Responsibility for much of this has to rest at the feet of the coaches, and Tomlin is the Head of that staff.

If we have been complaining about the play calling of Arians for so many years then eventually the blame must shift from the OC to the HC. Eventually, if the play calling is the problem and not the personnel, it is up to the coach to force a change in offensive philosophy. If we have been complaining about the famous RUTFM play for as long as we have, then it is no longer Arians who we can point the finger at. At some point we either

a) Accept that this failing play is actually part of the greater plan and needed in order to keep the D in check.

b) Blame the players for not being able to execute a perfectly sound offense, in which case much of the blame rests at the feet of the front office and not the coaches.

or

c) Blame Tomlin for allowing the same inept play calling philosophy to continue for this long.

Eddie Spaghetti
10-04-2011, 12:36 PM
actually it was tomlin who stepped in and asked the rooneys to get troys deal done.

just to be fair.

drprwnap
10-04-2011, 12:45 PM
I'm sorry, were you saying something NW Steeler? Hard to concentrate on your point in that last post with my eyes being poked out by you sig photo. :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs

Isn't that Tim Tebow's girlfriend :?:

Ghost
10-04-2011, 01:01 PM
I think we all need a collective deep breath. Tomlin is a good coach. 3 out of 4 years he's had the Steelers 1st in the AFC North, taken them to 2 Super Bowls and last years' team, at least on the O, overachieved.

I think there's a lot of blame to spread all around. Everyone from the Rooneys to the Coaches and assistant coaches gambled and rolled the dice there was one more year left for this team. They crapped out. Every football "expert" thought the same as well. They are all are shocked at what's happening. How 1 year older somehow = 10 years older.

I'm still holding out hope for things to click and make it a respectable season. If not, this, at least to me, will be the first true season of huge adversity (Super bowl hangover happens to almost all teams). Let's see what's done at the end if improvement doesn't come. Give MT a chance to really put his stamp on this team.

Sonny
10-04-2011, 01:47 PM
My biggest concern with Tomlin is ever since he has been coach, we have a hard time beating the best of the best.

Face it fellas, i'll take a ring any way I can get it, but beating an 8-8 Chargers team, an 11-5 Ravens team with rookies in the most important spots, and a 9-7 Cardinals team, none convincingly, is it that impressive?

In 08 we had the good fortune of Brady being hurt, Baltimore knocking off Tennessee, and not having to play Rodgers or Brees(still up and coming) in the Super Bowl.

Last year, we get to the SB by playing 2 games on our homefield against Flacco and Sanchez(anyone watch the Sunday night game), win neither in convincing fashion, and then get beat(lit up) by Rodgers and co.

This year, we have played against 2 good teams, and lost both.

Just look at from 2007 to 2011, who we have lost to.

THAT is most disturbing. We can't beat the truly elite teams under Tomlin.

Eddie Spaghetti
10-04-2011, 01:51 PM
Face it fellas, i'll take a ring any way I can get it, but beating an 8-8 Chargers team, an 11-5 Ravens team with rookies in the most important spots, and a 9-7 Cardinals team, none convincingly, is it that impressive?

hard to pin that on tomlin seeing how he was in Minnesota at the time.

Djfan
10-04-2011, 01:51 PM
I think we all need a collective deep breath. Tomlin is a good coach. 3 out of 4 years he's had the Steelers 1st in the AFC North, taken them to 2 Super Bowls and last years' team, at least on the O, overachieved.

I think there's a lot of blame to spread all around. Everyone from the Rooneys to the Coaches and assistant coaches gambled and rolled the dice there was one more year left for this team. They crapped out. Every football "expert" thought the same as well. They are all are shocked at what's happening. How 1 year older somehow = 10 years older.

I'm still holding out hope for things to click and make it a respectable season. If not, this, at least to me, will be the first true season of huge adversity (Super bowl hangover happens to almost all teams). Let's see what's done at the end if improvement doesn't come. Give MT a chance to really put his stamp on this team.


Fair enough, but it's not outside of the norms of fandom to question these things. They are sketchy to say the least.

Sonny
10-04-2011, 02:06 PM
Face it fellas, i'll take a ring any way I can get it, but beating an 8-8 Chargers team, an 11-5 Ravens team with rookies in the most important spots, and a 9-7 Cardinals team, none convincingly, is it that impressive?

hard to pin that on tomlin seeing how he was in Minnesota at the time.Right.

That was Omar Epps leading our team to #6 in January 2009.

fezziwig
10-04-2011, 02:08 PM
Maybe the new scheme with a new OC will be to play to the current players/teams strength.

We need a blocking back or a TE that can actually block and not blow assignments. Arians won't have a fullback on his team he said but yet, he tries to make Johnson do a fullbacks job. Why not just have a fullback then ? Johnson stinks ! He gets run over, bad hands and misses blocks. Where's Arians logic in that ? Oh I know, Arian feels he will trick the other team buy having a guy out their that everyone knows can't perform his job.
Just like when Arians says, " I try to go with a play/plays that haven't worked because I feel they won't expect us to run it again. "
This is the jackass that is in charge of Ben and a receiving crew that could be second to none.
This same jackass has claimed Willie Colon is the best right tackle in the NFL.
At this point it doesn't matter much what Arians does because, the offensive line and Johnson as a helper will never get the job done unless, Arians comes up against a Defensive Cord that is more stupid than him.

Lebeau's another one that has rode on his reputation. Be it Lebeau, Tomlin or Colbert, changes need made and should have been made right along.
Lebeaus defenses have been dwindling over the years and it just seems to be overlooked or in hopes the problems solve theirselves.

Each season more and more teams pass happy on our Steelers and now it just seems to be accepted. The run defense is something else in the past that would get gashed occasionally but now it's here to stay.

Ultimately Tomlin is at fault and I doubt he knows what to do or has the balls to do anything about it.
Though, Tomlin has some good quips and funny comebacks when called on the carpet.

I keep hearing about three Super Bowls in five years and that's great. Just think how much better we would have been if we address problems each year as they have arisen instead of waiting for them to all hit at once.

We finally have a GREAT quarterback and the rest of the team just blows with the wind.

Give Cowher Ben years ago, Cowher would have had four Super Bowl wins.

What was our strength of a team is aging, getting slower and now all the imperfection can no longer be overcome.

Eddie Spaghetti
10-04-2011, 03:39 PM
Face it fellas, i'll take a ring any way I can get it, but beating an 8-8 Chargers team, an 11-5 Ravens team with rookies in the most important spots, and a 9-7 Cardinals team, none convincingly, is it that impressive?

hard to pin that on tomlin seeing how he was in Minnesota at the time.Right.

That was Omar Epps leading our team to #6 in January 2009.

point for you.

i got cornfused.

hawaiiansteel
10-04-2011, 04:15 PM
Face it fellas, i'll take a ring any way I can get it, but beating an 8-8 Chargers team, an 11-5 Ravens team with rookies in the most important spots, and a 9-7 Cardinals team, none convincingly, is it that impressive?

hard to pin that on tomlin seeing how he was in Minnesota at the time.Right.

That was Omar Epps leading our team to #6 in January 2009.


:D it is easy to confuse the two...

http://www.sportsfanlive.com/roller/huerto/resource/MikeTomlin_OmarEpps.jpg

ikestops85
10-04-2011, 05:16 PM
I'm sorry, were you saying something NW Steeler? Hard to concentrate on your point in that last post with my eyes being poked out by you sig photo. :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs

Motorboat!!!!

OK

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTIBsfIEyPS5BgKh7JQrAwpOThz0YMuv lmXHP1BGzViAuwPZG2DRaqgZ5mz8Q

hawaiiansteel
10-04-2011, 05:24 PM
I'm sorry, were you saying something NW Steeler? Hard to concentrate on your point in that last post with my eyes being poked out by you sig photo. :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs

Motorboat!!!!

OK

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTIBsfIEyPS5BgKh7JQrAwpOThz0YMuv lmXHP1BGzViAuwPZG2DRaqgZ5mz8Q

I'm sorry, were you saying something ikestops85? Hard to concentrate on your point in that last post with my eyes being poked out by you sig photo. :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs

NJ-STEELER
10-04-2011, 07:01 PM
Seriously? You people are delusional. Tomlin's job is as safe as any coaches in the NFL. :wft

i'm shocked serious steeler fans that frequent boards like this think otherwise.


perhaps they missed collinsworth statement on the sunday night pregame.

"every owner in the league is telling their GM to 'find me the next Mike tomlin"

fezziwig
10-04-2011, 07:24 PM
Tomlins job is safe and he will end up having more years as a Steelers coach than anyother coach before or after.

Djfan
10-04-2011, 10:46 PM
Tomlins job is safe and he will end up having more years as a Steelers coach than anyother coach before or after.


I don't think anyone is seriously saying this. Still, it is not inappropriate to ask why he sits back like all is hunky-dory. It aint!

He reminds me of Art Shell.

SteelTorch
10-05-2011, 12:15 AM
I don't understand why some say that the offensive line has been terrible for years and never gets addressed.

2010
1st round pick Pouncey
UFA Flozell Adams

Not only did they address issues, the offensive line played pretty well in the playoffs and created some running lanes and was adequate in pass pro.

2011
2nd round pick Marcus Gilbert
Willie Colon signed to multi-year deal

To say this team has done nothing to fix the problem is sheer lunacy.

Now, if you want to say that their moves have not fixed the problem, you may have a point. But, this team has made investments in the offensive line. And, they will continue to do so until the situation improves. Now, the problem is that sometimes revamping an offensive line takes a few years.
Yeah, and how many years did they neglect bringing in new players that were actually good? And by the way, drafting one first-rounder, one second-rounder that hasn't proved himself yet, and bringing in mediocre players isn't a way to build a line. Colon stinks, and Adams is faaaar from his prime.

Steelhere10
10-05-2011, 12:24 AM
Let me make this clear, I don't want Tomlin fired. I was agreeing that he need to step up and make some changes. BTW Cowher was the biggest choker in Steelers history , Don't forget the talent he had on his teams for years and only won one SB.
If you can't win with
Lolyd, Green, Brown , Kirkland
Woodson , Lake, Steed, Buckner
Yancey, Mills, Green, Hasting
O Donell, along with one of the best Oline at that time . AND ALL IN THEIR PRIME !
PLEASE GET REAL ! He can't touch Tomlin .

feltdizz
10-05-2011, 08:32 AM
Let me make this clear, I don't want Tomlin fired. I was agreeing that he need to step up and make some changes. BTW Cowher was the biggest choker in Steelers history , Don't forget the talent he had on his teams for years and only won one SB.
If you can't win with
Lolyd, Green, Brown , Kirkland
Woodson , Lake, Steed, Buckner
Yancey, Mills, Green, Hasting
O Donell, along with one of the best Oline at that time . AND ALL IN THEIR PRIME !
PLEASE GET REAL ! He can't touch Tomlin .
If Cowher had an Aaron Rodgers or Big Ben in the 90's we probably win 2 SB's. Please don't bring up ODonnell... The guy was everything but clutch and threw everything high. Steeler WR's talk about how every team loved playing them because Neil left them out to dry all the time.

I must admit though... even Cowhers defenses played bad in big games. He had that Marty ball all over him. I'm glad Cowher got one before he retired. He deserved to win
more then one and even XL was clser than it should have been.

My issue right now with Tomlin is pride. It looks like Tomlin is willing to cut and bench better players if they don't kiss his azzz. I had a feeling Starks and Tomlin didn't get along and this is the real reason why he was let go. Sure Starks was over weight but that is a given after surgery with a big guy. Not sure how lineman who are twice as good as what we have on the roster are being cut over petty cash. We have a QB who likes to extend plays, spend a little mney and keep him clean instead of playing guys who don't rock the Tomlin boat but can't block a baby.

fezziwig
10-05-2011, 09:05 AM
I know we are bouncing around our opinions but, do coaches and players get together that much for each other to possibly have conflict with one another ?

I can see a me guy type QB, WR, RB and all that but, a lineman ?

I also thought Max and Ben were tight and the front office to give Max all that money over the years only to have Tomlin cut him over dislike doesn't seem to fit.

Oh well it's all moot because I heard on the radio this morning, Max is a Steeler once again.

Oviedo
10-05-2011, 09:18 AM
Tomlins job is safe and he will end up having more years as a Steelers coach than anyother coach before or after.


I don't think anyone is seriously saying this. Still, it is not inappropriate to ask why he sits back like all is hunky-dory. It aint!

He reminds me of Art Shell.

You prefer panic? Screaming and spitting like Cowher?

They are different types of leadership and Mike Tomlin's level and consistent approach has been proven to have the best long term effect.

feltdizz
10-05-2011, 10:28 AM
I know we are bouncing around our opinions but, do coaches and players get together that much for each other to possibly have conflict with one another ?

I can see a me guy type QB, WR, RB and all that but, a lineman ?

I also thought Max and Ben were tight and the front office to give Max all that money over the years only to have Tomlin cut him over dislike doesn't seem to fit.

Oh well it's all moot because I heard on the radio this morning, Max is a Steeler once again.

I have seen coaches black ball a player simply because the kid rubbed him the wrong way. I've seen talented players ride the bench while less talented players started just because a guy didn't hustle on the last sprint.

Some guys have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to authority and they view coaches as the devil regardless of how nice the coach is....

I don't think it was the primary reason but it probably plays a part when it comes to who stays and who goes. The last thing a coach wants is a guy who questions authority or rocks the boat in meetings or practice.

Djfan
10-05-2011, 10:46 AM
Tomlins job is safe and he will end up having more years as a Steelers coach than anyother coach before or after.


I don't think anyone is seriously saying this. Still, it is not inappropriate to ask why he sits back like all is hunky-dory. It aint!

He reminds me of Art Shell.

You prefer panic? Screaming and spitting like Cowher?

They are different types of leadership and Mike Tomlin's level and consistent approach has been proven to have the best long term effect.

I want something. I see the same strange choices over and over and over. I see him stand there. Something. Something!!!!

fezziwig
10-05-2011, 01:00 PM
I know we are bouncing around our opinions but, do coaches and players get together that much for each other to possibly have conflict with one another ?

I can see a me guy type QB, WR, RB and all that but, a lineman ?

I also thought Max and Ben were tight and the front office to give Max all that money over the years only to have Tomlin cut him over dislike doesn't seem to fit.

Oh well it's all moot because I heard on the radio this morning, Max is a Steeler once again.

I have seen coaches black ball a player simply because the kid rubbed him the wrong way. I've seen talented players ride the bench while less talented players started just because a guy didn't hustle on the last sprint.

Some guys have a chip on their shoulder when it comes to authority and they view coaches as the devil regardless of how nice the coach is....

I don't think it was the primary reason but it probably plays a part when it comes to who stays and who goes. The last thing a coach wants is a guy who questions authority or rocks the boat in meetings or practice.


Have you heard of stuff like that between tomlin and Max ?

I can see Al Davis pulling crap like that and I believe he did it to Marcus Allen.

RuthlessBurgher
10-05-2011, 01:20 PM
I'm sorry, were you saying something ikestops85? Hard to concentrate on your point in that last post with my eyes being poked out by you sig photo. :Boobs :Boobs :Boobs

Ike's sig photo is a picture of Goodell.

Not that there's anything wrong with that. :wink:

RuthlessBurgher
10-05-2011, 01:26 PM
He reminds me of Art Shell.

I know folks in chat this week were commenting on Tomlin's expanding waistline, but he ain't exactly in Shell's zip code just yet. :wink:

steelz09
10-05-2011, 01:27 PM
I know we are bouncing around our opinions but, do coaches and players get together that much for each other to possibly have conflict with one another ?

I can see a me guy type QB, WR, RB and all that but, a lineman ?

I also thought Max and Ben were tight and the front office to give Max all that money over the years only to have Tomlin cut him over dislike doesn't seem to fit.

Oh well it's all moot because I heard on the radio this morning, Max is a Steeler once again.

I also think Tomlin and Colbert need to watch out for recommendations based on how "tight" Ben is with a certain player or coach. I don't care how tight he is w/ Arians, Ben would be better with a different OC. He'd probably me a multi-year pro bowler by now with a different OC.

Colon was a TERRIBLE signing. I still have no idea how his agent talked him up enough to be considered even in the top half of the league at RT. We have all seen this guy play for several years, and he is NOT a good RT. I'm with most people on this board that he would be a very good OG. There is no doubt in my mind that Ben had a little involvement with Colon being brought back.

To summarize, I'm not saying that Ben's opinion shouldn't be heard but you can't allow his input or "buddy network" dictate a personnel decision. Players are players, and coaches are coaches.... they have to respect that separation of responsibilities.

fezziwig
10-05-2011, 05:25 PM
I know we are bouncing around our opinions but, do coaches and players get together that much for each other to possibly have conflict with one another ?

I can see a me guy type QB, WR, RB and all that but, a lineman ?

I also thought Max and Ben were tight and the front office to give Max all that money over the years only to have Tomlin cut him over dislike doesn't seem to fit.

Oh well it's all moot because I heard on the radio this morning, Max is a Steeler once again.

I also think Tomlin and Colbert need to watch out for recommendations based on how "tight" Ben is with a certain player or coach. I don't care how tight he is w/ Arians, Ben would be better with a different OC. He'd probably me a multi-year pro bowler by now with a different OC.

Colon was a TERRIBLE signing. I still have no idea how his agent talked him up enough to be considered even in the top half of the league at RT. We have all seen this guy play for several years, and he is NOT a good RT. I'm with most people on this board that he would be a very good OG. There is no doubt in my mind that Ben had a little involvement with Colon being brought back.

To summarize, I'm not saying that Ben's opinion shouldn't be heard but you can't allow his input or "buddy network" dictate a personnel decision. Players are players, and coaches are coaches.... they have to respect that separation of responsibilities.


:Clap :Clap

Djfan
10-05-2011, 06:26 PM
He reminds me of Art Shell.

I know folks in chat this week were commenting on Tomlin's expanding waistline, but he ain't exactly in Shell's zip code just yet. :wink:


It's not his figure (and I don't care about any man's figure except my own), but his stoic, say nothing, do nothing appearance on the sidelines.

Oviedo
10-05-2011, 08:08 PM
I prefer a coach on the sideline who is thinking and planning versus play acting for the cameras (and fans).

Does anyone really think these players respond to getting yelled at? These are grown men not junior high football players who are intimidated by coaches.

SteelTorch
10-05-2011, 10:29 PM
I know we are bouncing around our opinions but, do coaches and players get together that much for each other to possibly have conflict with one another ?

I can see a me guy type QB, WR, RB and all that but, a lineman ?

I also thought Max and Ben were tight and the front office to give Max all that money over the years only to have Tomlin cut him over dislike doesn't seem to fit.

Oh well it's all moot because I heard on the radio this morning, Max is a Steeler once again.

I also think Tomlin and Colbert need to watch out for recommendations based on how "tight" Ben is with a certain player or coach. I don't care how tight he is w/ Arians, Ben would be better with a different OC. He'd probably me a multi-year pro bowler by now with a different OC.

Colon was a TERRIBLE signing. I still have no idea how his agent talked him up enough to be considered even in the top half of the league at RT. We have all seen this guy play for several years, and he is NOT a good RT. I'm with most people on this board that he would be a very good OG. There is no doubt in my mind that Ben had a little involvement with Colon being brought back.

To summarize, I'm not saying that Ben's opinion shouldn't be heard but you can't allow his input or "buddy network" dictate a personnel decision. Players are players, and coaches are coaches.... they have to respect that separation of responsibilities.
:Agree

I've often speculated that Bruce Arians and many of our O-linemen still have jobs because Ben is "buddies" with them. Regarding Colon, this FO has made some very questionable decisions on which personnel to keep. It's like they've grown desperate.

Djfan
10-07-2011, 12:36 AM
I prefer a coach on the sideline who is thinking and planning versus play acting for the cameras (and fans).

Does anyone really think these players respond to getting yelled at? These are grown men not junior high football players who are intimidated by coaches.


Yeah, Cowher and Noll sucked.

Oviedo
10-07-2011, 11:24 AM
I prefer a coach on the sideline who is thinking and planning versus play acting for the cameras (and fans).

Does anyone really think these players respond to getting yelled at? These are grown men not junior high football players who are intimidated by coaches.


Yeah, Cowher and Noll sucked.

No...neither sucked. Noll's sideline demeanor was very much like Tomlin. You did not see him freaking out spitting on people. Cowher liked to act like a lunatic because he knew it attracted attention, but I doubt he really intimidated very many professional football players with his act but it worked for him.

steelblood
10-07-2011, 12:18 PM
I don't understand why some say that the offensive line has been terrible for years and never gets addressed.

2010
1st round pick Pouncey
UFA Flozell Adams

Not only did they address issues, the offensive line played pretty well in the playoffs and created some running lanes and was adequate in pass pro.

2011
2nd round pick Marcus Gilbert
Willie Colon signed to multi-year deal

To say this team has done nothing to fix the problem is sheer lunacy.

Now, if you want to say that their moves have not fixed the problem, you may have a point. But, this team has made investments in the offensive line. And, they will continue to do so until the situation improves. Now, the problem is that sometimes revamping an offensive line takes a few years.
Yeah, and how many years did they neglect bringing in new players that were actually good? And by the way, drafting one first-rounder, one second-rounder that hasn't proved himself yet, and bringing in mediocre players isn't a way to build a line. Colon stinks, and Adams is faaaar from his prime.

Who cares if Adams was "Faaaar" from his prime. If you think that signing was bad, you simply don't understand football. He was very effective last season and a huge help in the running game. It wasn't a long term fix, but it saved our season and almost got us another Super Bowl victory. That was a brilliant move by the front office.

I was responding to the contention that this front office has done nothing to fix the line. That simply isn't true. They have made significant investments (especially through the draft). They realize the problem and have taken steps to rectify it. Whether they pan out in the long term, remains to be seen. I feel the Steelers will likely draft a tackle or a guard in the first 2 rounds again in 2012. Look, this team builds through the draft and we are up against the cap because we have a VERY expensive defense. Building a strong offensive line will likely take at least one more season.

fezziwig
10-10-2011, 07:51 AM
At the start it was exciting to see a new coach ( Cowher ) to show his young spirit. After a couple of seasons it got old. I was/am happy with Tomlin and his proffessional attitude along the sidelines.

feltdizz
10-10-2011, 08:41 AM
At the start it was exciting to see a new coach ( Cowher ) to show his young spirit. After a couple of seasons it got old. I was/am happy with Tomlin and his proffessional attitude along the sidelines.

It only gets old if you start losing or don't follow through on the threats....

If we start having a few down years Tomlin's style will get old too...

Pahn711
10-10-2011, 09:42 AM
At the start it was exciting to see a new coach ( Cowher ) to show his young spirit. After a couple of seasons it got old. I was/am happy with Tomlin and his proffessional attitude along the sidelines.

It only gets old if you start losing or don't follow through on the threats....

If we start having a few down years Tomlin's style will get old too...

A few down years? People were calling for his head three games in the season.

Djfan
10-10-2011, 10:11 AM
I prefer a coach on the sideline who is thinking and planning versus play acting for the cameras (and fans).

Does anyone really think these players respond to getting yelled at? These are grown men not junior high football players who are intimidated by coaches.


Yeah, Cowher and Noll sucked.

No...neither sucked. Noll's sideline demeanor was very much like Tomlin. You did not see him freaking out spitting on people. Cowher liked to act like a lunatic because he knew it attracted attention, but I doubt he really intimidated very many professional football players with his act but it worked for him.

While Noll was not any where near Cowher's level of demonstration skills, he had many moments. I remember him talking to many players during the game, talking to coaches, being in the game, even a couple of rare moments of being pissed off.

I don't see it from Tomlin. Not a knock on his skills, really, but the lack of change was killing me.

That being said, whatever crawled in his boxers and bit that backside this week is a welcome addition. This was the team we know it can be. Nice to see the potential realized more.

Kudos to the whole coaching staff - really.

fezziwig
10-10-2011, 05:06 PM
I'm not pleased with Tomlins interviews because he is so vague. He actually seems gruff with his interviews and gives politicals responses.

Sugar
10-10-2011, 05:11 PM
I'm not pleased with Tomlins interviews because he is so vague. He actually seems gruff with his interviews and gives politicals responses.

It's interesting that you don't like that, while I find it endearing. I don't want a coach giving details, just get the media crap out of the way with factual info and be done with it.

hawaiiansteel
10-10-2011, 06:08 PM
Steelers Report Card: Game 5 vs. Titans

Monday, October 10, 2011
By Gerry Dulac, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette


COACHING A+

Everything went right. The offense said it needed to start helping out the defense, and it did just that with a solid mix of running and passing. The defense didn't allow a play longer than 25 yards and came up with a big takeaway. The fake punt call by Mike Tomlin was just the kind of juice the team needed. So was Tomlin's challenge on a third-down incompletion to keep alive the first scoring drive.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11283/11 ... z1aOnC56mm

_SteeL_CurtaiN_
10-10-2011, 06:53 PM
Chuck Noll and displays of emotion were few and far between. Most of the players said it was a joke when he tried to motivate them, it usually left them bewildered. The Emperor also had little use for players who "needed" to pump themselves up.

Pressure is something you feel when you don't know what you're doing. ~ Chuck Noll