Bad Ben puts Steelers in tough spot, Good Ben saves them

[hawaiiansteel]

Bad Ben puts Steelers in tough spot, Good Ben saves them

By Mike Freeman
CBSSports.com National NFL Insider
Sep. 26, 2011

http://sports.cbsimg.net/u/photos/football/nfl/img15642488.jpg

Mike Tomlin will always have Big Ben's back, but continuing to see Bad Ben must wear him out. (Getty Images)

INDIANAPOLIS -- So, here we are again, the year 2011, and we're still talking Good Ben/Bad Ben. The Ben Roethlisberger bad boy doppelganger won't go away. It never dies, like the guy in a horror movie wearing a ski mask, waiting behind the door.

The Good Ben scrambles and jukes and fakes. He buys time. He wrestles free of danger to throw a deep strike. Against the hapless Indianapolis Colts, he did this several times, saving drives and creating opportunities. Sidestepping a sack, once doing so for an 81-yard deep strike to Mike Wallace for a score. Late in Pittsburgh's 23-20 victory against the Colts, it was Roethlisberger's calmness and efficiency that won the game.

Then there's the Bad Ben. The bad one scrambles and jukes and fakes. He buys time. He wrestles free of danger to throw a deep strike. Or interception. Or allows the ball to come dribbling out. Against the Peyton-less Colts, he was again sloppy with the football, fumbling twice while moving about. The Bad Ben scrambled, was intercepted. The Bad Ben was almost decapitated by Colts defensive back Terrence Johnson while cockily scrambling along the sideline. The Bad Ben almost lost the game for Pittsburgh.

The Bad Ben is the reason Pittsburgh came close to falling to quarterback Kerry Painter ... the two-headed monster of Kerry Collins, who was concussed out of action, and Curtis Painter, who looks like a member of the rock group Creed. The Steelers should have stomped the Colts' guts all over the turf but ended up in a fight for their lives because Arrogant Ben was too dominant for much of the game.

"You have to bounce back," Roethlisberger said of the turnovers, "and have a short memory. It's tough because on the sack/fumble you don't see the guy coming. You say protect the ball, but when you don't know a guy's there, it's kind of hard. Just have to take care of it. The pick, I had a guy open, but just overthrew him and that's how it goes."

Bad Ben, Good Ben. Great Ben, horrid one. Roethlisberger simultaneously ruined the game and saved it. That's how it goes.

"We don't care how it looks," Steelers coach Mike Tomlin said of the team's ugly victory. "We just want to get out of stadiums with wins, particularly road stadiums and AFC ones."

One play late was almost comical. Roethlisberger was feeling pressure low from a Colts defender and jump-hopped over the player while throwing. Since he wasn't planted, the ball skidded into the ground.

And yet, with the score tied at 20 and some two minutes left, Roethlisberger's final drive -- full of grace and coolness -- won it for Pittsburgh. He took the Steelers 60 yards in 10 plays for the Shaun Suisham 38-yard field goal. On that drive, Roethlisberger was 3 of 4 for 39 yards and had an 11-yard scramble. It was vintage Ben. Good Ben, that is.

Meanwhile the Steelers will be good, if not great, as they usually are. They'll also be dealing with the many faces of Roethlisberger. As they usually do.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/1564 ... saves-them (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/15642424/bad-ben-puts-steelers-in-tough-spot-good-ben-saves-them)

[williar]

Figured it would be a national writer that would put this article out there. A local writer wouldn't have the guts... Whatever the case it's good to see someone shine some light on the fraudulent Ben. Around here all you hear about is the OL, RB, OC, DC, Tomlin, Colbert, DB's, and the defense. Yes! The defense for crying out loud taking so much abuse. After carrying this team the past 5 or so years I guess it is inevitable that the defense will get old and tired. My question is when will the offense ever step up and not require the defense to hold its opponents to 10 points to have a chance to compete? When will this team ever have the nerve to outscore somebody that puts up more than 17 points without the defense having to score? When will our elite QB actually be elite? Hey, we'll probably never know.

[grotonsteel]

Figured it would be a national writer that would put this article out there. A local writer wouldn't have the guts... Whatever the case it's good to see someone shine some light on the fraudulent Ben. Around here all you hear about is the OL, RB, OC, DC, Tomlin, Colbert, DB's, and the defense. Yes! The defense for crying out loud taking so much abuse. After carrying this team the past 5 or so years I guess it is inevitable that the defense will get old and tired. My question is when will the offense ever step up and not require the defense to hold its opponents to 10 points to have a chance to compete? When will this team ever have the nerve to outscore somebody that puts up more than 17 points without the defense having to score? When will our elite QB actually be elite? Hey, we'll probably never know.


When Steelers will spend money on offense like they do on Defense then i would blame Offense a lot more but till then Defense has bigger responsibility. If Steelers FO had spent 60 millions on Offense during the offseason then i would blame it all on offense. If you think after splashing so much money during offseason on defense they are playing all pro and should not be blamed then good for you.

Steelers FO put all their eggs in one basket and that is Defense.

Also Steelers passing Offense is 8th ranked. Steelers are 5th in 3rd down conversion.Steelers running game is messed up. Blame it on O-line. You have one good O-lineman and guess what he was a high draft pick. Rest are 6th Rd/7th Rd/UDFA pick or Bills reject and we all knew Bills had one of the greatest line NFL ever saw... :roll:

P.S: I think Gilbert will be future LT but it may take time.

[NJ-STEELER]

someone needs to inform that writer a bit

the sack/fumble/TD was not on a scramble. nor was another negative play...the INT. was a bad throw though made worse by sanders gaffe of not touching down the DB.

the wallace TD was not on a scramble. the should have been 1st and goal/possible TD drop by sanders was not on a scramble. the easy should have been 1st down to wes saunders was not on a scramble.
a key 3rd and long conversion to manny was on a scramble though. funny how he didnt include that

[grotonsteel]

someone needs to inform that writer a bit

the sack/fumble/TD was not on a scramble. nor was another negative play...the INT. was a bad throw though made worse by sanders gaffe of not touching down the DB.

the wallace TD was not on a scramble. the should have been 1st and goal/possible TD drop by sanders was not on a scramble. the easy should have been 1st down to wes saunders was not on a scramble.
a key 3rd and long conversion to manny was on a scramble though. funny how he didnt include that


:Agree

Also someone forgot to tell the writer than Ben is releasing the ball 1.1 sec earlier than last season and BTW last season Ben had a great year.

[hawaiiansteel]

Roethlisberger leaves Steelers' practice early

Wednesday, September 28, 2011
By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette


Quarterback Ben Roethlisberger left Steelers practice early today for what coach Mike Tomlin said was a "conference call."

Roethlisberger was not mentioned on the Steelers' official injury report, even though there is a category for "limited participation in practice."

Tomlin said it was no big deal.

It's unusual for the starting quarterback to miss a chunk of a practice in the middle of a week during the season unless he were injured, sick or had a personal family matter to attend to.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11271/11 ... z1ZJN5E7ah (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11271/1178249-100.stm#ixzz1ZJN5E7ah)

[fordfixer]

Steelers Notes: Ben calls it an early day
http://www.timesonline.com/sports/local ... 6797d.html (http://www.timesonline.com/sports/local_sports/steelers-notes-ben-calls-it-an-early-day/article_f63049bb-df20-538e-8577-2cfc5586797d.html)

Posted: Wednesday, September 28, 2011 11:50 pm

By Mike Bires mbires@timesonline.com | 0 comments

PITTSBURGH -- Ben Roethlisberger started practice, but he didn't finish.

At some point during Wednesday's workout, the Steelers' quarterback left the field.

Afterwards, coach Mike Tomlin said that Roethlisberger was excused because he had to take part in a conference call.

"No issues with Ben," Tomlin said as he walked off the practice field. "He had a conference call to make."

That is highly unusual because rarely are players excused from practice for media obligations.

Roethlisberger did take part in a conference call with the Houston media on Wednesday morning and he spoke to the Pittsburgh media like he always does on Wednesdays before practice.

Because the Steelers didn't say which conference call Roethlisberger was on later Wednesday afternoon, it's believed Roethlisberger left practice for personal reasons.

MENDENHALL'S TAKE

With the Steelers' rushing attack struggling, running back Rashard Mendenhall found himself fielding several questions on the matter. One theory among the media and fans says the problem is poor blocking by the offensive line. Another theory suggests that Mendenhall isn't hitting the right holes or that he's not hitting holes quickly enough.

Mendenhall, however, chose not to pinpoint the blame.

"As far as the run game, it's a lot bigger than one person," he said. "It's a whole mindset, starting at the top with the offensive coordinator, the plays that are called, the match-ups that we have, the offensive line. It's the collective effort of everybody that has to be clicking for it to be productive."

Last year in the Steelers' first three games, Mendenhall rushed for 120, 69 and 143 yards, respectively, for a total of 332. In three games this year, he's rushed for 45, 66 and 37 for a total of 148.

When asked if he's upset with himself, Mendenhall said, "If you're doing everything you can, you're not going to get mad at yourself. To me, I look at myself ... you can only do so much. It's a collective effort."

BROWN FINED BY NFL

Steelers WR/KR Antonio Brown was fined $7,500 by the NFL for an illegal block he threw in last week's win in Indianapolis. Brown was penalized for throwing a low block after a Roethlisberger interception late in the second quarter.

[papillon]

The Steelers have been to three Super Bowls while Ben has been the quarterback. He's always been Good Ben/Bad Ben this isn't news and it isn't changing between now and the time he retires.

I like it, because it makes the game a lot more fun to watch.

Pappy

[JAR]

The Steelers have been to three Super Bowls while Ben has been the quarterback. He's always been Good Ben/Bad Ben this isn't news and it isn't changing between now and the time he retires.

I like it, because it makes the game a lot more fun to watch.

Pappy

Imagine a league full of Brady's and Mannings.....boring.. But that's what most fans want, fantasy football QBs. Turf and passing attacks....sissy football. :)

[williar]

The Steelers have been to three Super Bowls while Ben has been the quarterback. He's always been Good Ben/Bad Ben this isn't news and it isn't changing between now and the time he retires.

I like it, because it makes the game a lot more fun to watch.

Pappy

Really? Seriously? Perhaps you mean, fun to watch as in Keystone cops/Three stooges or my son's first Pop Warner game.

[feltdizz]

The Steelers have been to three Super Bowls while Ben has been the quarterback. He's always been Good Ben/Bad Ben this isn't news and it isn't changing between now and the time he retires.

I like it, because it makes the game a lot more fun to watch.

Pappy


true.. but we have some fans on here who refuse to admit bad Ben exist.... :stirpot

"No such thing as a bad Ben... just bad people around Ben"

[papillon]

The Steelers have been to three Super Bowls while Ben has been the quarterback. He's always been Good Ben/Bad Ben this isn't news and it isn't changing between now and the time he retires.

I like it, because it makes the game a lot more fun to watch.

Pappy

Really? Seriously? Perhaps you mean, fun to watch as in Keystone cops/Three stooges or my son's first Pop Warner game.

I like it, I enjoy it, it's fun to watch, call it whatever you want, but in the end the good outweighs the bad by far. The Steelers would be stuck on 4 SBs without Roethlisberger, it's too bad everyone wants him to be the prototypical quarterback, drop back, make reads, and deliver the ball, when that isn't what he does and never will be. The sooner those who don't like his style accept it, the less frustrating it will become and the more enjoyable it will become.

I suggest that everyone begin enjoying the ride regardless of how wild it can be, because, it isn't going to be like this forever. I was 16 - 21 years old when the 70s Steelers were the best team on the planet and that football was fun, but it isn't even close to how much fun it is right now.

Begin to enjoy it or you'll regret it some day when Ben retires and everyone will be wondering why the game doesn't seem as much fun. I have never had more confidence in the Steelers to win a game in the 4th quarter than I do right now. I'm still dumbfounded that in the SB Ben couldn't even get a first down on the final drive. I was certain that the Steelers were going to win that game. That is the only time that I can remember Ben not making magic at a critical point in a big game and he's been in many of them.

Pappy

[JAR]

The Steelers have been to three Super Bowls while Ben has been the quarterback. He's always been Good Ben/Bad Ben this isn't news and it isn't changing between now and the time he retires.

I like it, because it makes the game a lot more fun to watch.

Pappy


true.. but we have some fans on here who refuse to admit bad Ben exist.... :stirpot

"No such thing as a bad Ben... just bad people around Ben"

Oh, there's bad Ben..put Brady or Manning behind this line, would they have any good? At least ben can play behind a bad O line.

[NJ-STEELER]

Is there a Team out there who employs a QB that doesn't make errors?

Some here act like no other QB throws ints or holds the ball too long resulting in a sacks or turnovers

[D Rock]

I like that Mendenhall is willing to acknowledge the play calling issues, but he really needs to take some of the blame on himself too.

He says everyone is a part of it, then lists everyone else but himself.

[papillon]

The Steelers have been to three Super Bowls while Ben has been the quarterback. He's always been Good Ben/Bad Ben this isn't news and it isn't changing between now and the time he retires.

I like it, because it makes the game a lot more fun to watch.

Pappy


true.. but we have some fans on here who refuse to admit bad Ben exist.... :stirpot

"No such thing as a bad Ben... just bad people around Ben"

Oh, Bad Ben exists and that's why good Ben is so d@mn much fun to watch. :tt2

Pappy

[papillon]

I like that Mendenhall is willing to acknowledge the play calling issues, but he really needs to take some of the blame on himself too.

He says everyone is a part of it, then lists everyone else but himself.

Yea, he may be talking himself into a second contract somewhere else and with the shelf life of running backs in the NFL you'd think he'd be a bit more careful in what he says and focus on what he can do to correct the problem.

Pappy

[steelcurtain44]

The Steelers have been to three Super Bowls while Ben has been the quarterback. He's always been Good Ben/Bad Ben this isn't news and it isn't changing between now and the time he retires.

I like it, because it makes the game a lot more fun to watch.

Pappy


true.. but we have some fans on here who refuse to admit bad Ben exist.... :stirpot

"No such thing as a bad Ben... just bad people around Ben"

Oh, there's bad Ben..put Brady or Manning behind this line, would they have any good? At least ben can play behind a bad O line.

It's very easy to blame the o-line for everything, but where are all the pro-bowl linemen for the Patsies and the Colts? They don't have them. Those 2 QBs makes the better than they are, by getting rid of the football quickely. Ben doesn't do that. He loves making big plays, and because of that the results are more sacks that other top qbs.

The fans of the Steelers (myself included) can talk all they want about Ben being an elite qb, but the facts show that he is not elite, but a very good to great qb.

For the one poster talking about the Steelers not drafting anything for the offense. Look at the receivers and running backs the Steelers have. Are you kidding me? They can have great players everywhere on the team. Ben is a big play qb, so the Steelers draft the offensive players to complement those big plays, and that's receivers not o-line. If they spent all their top picks on the o-line, they would suffer on defense, and no receivers.

Ben, simply have to help his linemen out. Get rid of the damn ball sometimes. He has the option of changing call to quick slants at the LOS, but he doesn't do it often enough. That's on Ben, not OC, nor the line. Ben has to shoulder a lot of the blame for what's going on, and he acknowledges it himself. The only people who don't who are the fans, which blames everyone else on the Steelers for these problem except Ben.

Sorry folks Ben maybe a great qb, but not and elite one yet.

[williar]

The Steelers have been to three Super Bowls while Ben has been the quarterback. He's always been Good Ben/Bad Ben this isn't news and it isn't changing between now and the time he retires.

I like it, because it makes the game a lot more fun to watch.

Pappy

Really? Seriously? Perhaps you mean, fun to watch as in Keystone cops/Three stooges or my son's first Pop Warner game.

I like it, I enjoy it, it's fun to watch, call it whatever you want, but in the end the good outweighs the bad by far. The Steelers would be stuck on 4 SBs without Roethlisberger, it's too bad everyone wants him to be the prototypical quarterback, drop back, make reads, and deliver the ball, when that isn't what he does and never will be. The sooner those who don't like his style accept it, the less frustrating it will become and the more enjoyable it will become.

I suggest that everyone begin enjoying the ride regardless of how wild it can be, because, it isn't going to be like this forever. I was 16 - 21 years old when the 70s Steelers were the best team on the planet and that football was fun, but it isn't even close to how much fun it is right now.

Begin to enjoy it or you'll regret it some day when Ben retires and everyone will be wondering why the game doesn't seem as much fun. I have never had more confidence in the Steelers to win a game in the 4th quarter than I do right now. I'm still dumbfounded that in the SB Ben couldn't even get a first down on the final drive. I was certain that the Steelers were going to win that game. That is the only time that I can remember Ben not making magic at a critical point in a big game and he's been in many of them.

Pappy

Whatever, Pap. I guess some of us just have higher standards. I mean after all, this offense have been together for a while now. I just wonder sometimes why they never seem to be on the same page. And to say we wouldn't have won 5 and 6 withouth Ben is just riduculous. I guess you could make the same argument for Willie Parker too. There were many players who made significant contributions during those superbowl runs. So why just single out Ben? Plus, his actual superbowl game performances have been nothing to write home about.

[feltdizz]

Is there a Team out there who employs a QB that doesn't make errors?

Some here act like no other QB throws ints or holds the ball too long resulting in a sacks or turnovers

ummm, I think it's more like...

Some here act like Ben never throws ints or holds the ball too long resulting in a sacks or turnovers...

[feltdizz]

Whatever, Pap. I guess some of us just have higher standards. I mean after all, this offense have been together for a while now. I just wonder sometimes why they never seem to be on the same page. And to say we wouldn't have won 5 and 6 withouth Ben is just riduculous. I guess you could make the same argument for Willie Parker too. There were many players who made significant contributions during those superbowl runs. So why just single out Ben? Plus, his actual superbowl game performances have been nothing to write home about.

We wouldn't have made it to 5 and 6 without Ben... Ben is clutch. He has that ability to make great plays when you need them and the lights are on. 95% of QB's can't do what he does when the pressure is on.

Now the question is why can't he do it all the time or more often but I think that is the Big Ben in him... he plays down to competition, heck, the Steelers play down to competition and it makes fir frustrating but exciting football.

I agree with Pappy though... you can't have a QB like Ben under center for 6 plus years and not include him in the equation when it comes to a sputtering offense. He deserves the praise for winning but he also deserves the blame for our lack of production.

It's a team sport but fans have a way of blaming everyone except the leader of the offense. Ben knows what this OL is capable of and when he goes against their strength looking for the HR sometimes we get burned...

[NJ-STEELER]

The Steelers have been to three Super Bowls while Ben has been the quarterback. He's always been Good Ben/Bad Ben this isn't news and it isn't changing between now and the time he retires.

I like it, because it makes the game a lot more fun to watch.

Pappy


true.. but we have some fans on here who refuse to admit bad Ben exist.... :stirpot

"No such thing as a bad Ben... just bad people around Ben"

Oh, there's bad Ben..put Brady or Manning behind this line, would they have any good? At least ben can play behind a bad O line.

It's very easy to blame the o-line for everything, but where are all the pro-bowl linemen for the Patsies and the Colts? They don't have them. Those 2 QBs makes the better than they are, by getting rid of the football quickely. Ben doesn't do that. He loves making big plays, and because of that the results are more sacks that other top qbs.

The fans of the Steelers (myself included) can talk all they want about Ben being an elite qb, but the facts show that he is not elite, but a very good to great qb.

For the one poster talking about the Steelers not drafting anything for the offense. Look at the receivers and running backs the Steelers have. Are you kidding me? They can have great players everywhere on the team. Ben is a big play qb, so the Steelers draft the offensive players to complement those big plays, and that's receivers not o-line. If they spent all their top picks on the o-line, they would suffer on defense, and no receivers.

Ben, simply have to help his linemen out. Get rid of the damn ball sometimes. He has the option of changing call to quick slants at the LOS, but he doesn't do it often enough. That's on Ben, not OC, nor the line. Ben has to shoulder a lot of the blame for what's going on, and he acknowledges it himself. The only people who don't who are the fans, which blames everyone else on the Steelers for these problem except Ben.

Sorry folks Ben maybe a great qb, but not and elite one yet.



If you do some quick research, you would see that's totally not true with the pats. Just off the top of my head They spent many more high draft picks on the OL for Brady.
Mankins. Solder. Volmer

Looks like the FO has tried to fix it some with some higher draft picks the last 2 years. Hopefully there a LT there this year that can come in and help quickly instead of a DL Sitting on he bench for 2 years while he learns the defense

[JAR]

I agree 100% with pap. Drop back passers bore me. I'll take a QB like Ben any day. I still think the stonio trade bit us in the SB, he makes that catch and the Steelers have seven.

[williar]

I agree 100% with pap. Drop back passers bore me. I'll take a QB like Ben any day. I still think the stonio trade bit us in the SB, he makes that catch and the Steelers have seven.

Does scoring touchdowns bore you too? I don't care how you do it, just get the ball in the endzone. Put some damn points on the board. Now, that is what's fun to watch.

What bores me is an offense that desn't know how to generate offense.

[feltdizz]

I agree 100% with pap. Drop back passers bore me. I'll take a QB like Ben any day. I still think the stonio trade bit us in the SB, he makes that catch and the Steelers have seven.

Does scoring touchdowns bore you too? I don't care how you do it, just get the ball in the endzone. Put some damn points on the board. Now, that is what's fun to watch.

What bores me is an offense that desn't know how to generate offense.

doesn't bore me... it frustrates me.

Clown ball doesn't help any arguments when it comes to elite QB's. We flop around for half a season and then pull out a few late victories in the 4th. Sure it's been fun and we win most of those games but last year we witnessed what can happen when we play a good team.

I'm not going to throw dirt on our SB victories but umm... we beat the Seahags and the Cardinals. It's not like we were playing great teams in those SB's. AZ did get hot but c'mon.. if we are going to win another SB or 2 we might want to play a little better because the chances of playing a newbie in the SB are slim.

[Slapstick]

Whatever, Pap. I guess some of us just have higher standards. I mean after all, this offense have been together for a while now. I just wonder sometimes why they never seem to be on the same page. And to say we wouldn't have won 5 and 6 withouth Ben is just riduculous. I guess you could make the same argument for Willie Parker too. There were many players who made significant contributions during those superbowl runs. So why just single out Ben? Plus, his actual superbowl game performances have been nothing to write home about.

Did Neil O'Donnell start for a SB winning team?

Did Bubby Brister? Kent Graham? Mike Tomczak? Tommy Maddox? Mark Malone?

Kordell Stewart?

There were many players who made significant contributions, but if you think it was somehow a coincidence that the Steelers went 20+ years without a true franchise QB, drafted Ben and then won two more, you are fooling yourself...

The Steelers have had dominant defenses and dominant running games in the past...

Ben was the difference maker that put the team over the top...

[Slapstick]

I'm not going to throw dirt on our SB victories but umm... we beat the Seahags and the Cardinals. It's not like we were playing great teams in those SB's. AZ did get hot but c'mon.. if we are going to win another SB or 2 we might want to play a little better because the chances of playing a newbie in the SB are slim.

If the Seahawks and Cardinals ended up in the SB, they must have done something right...

[BURGH86STEEL]

Ben still lacks the consistency necessary to make this offense one of the top units in the league.

[williar]

I agree 100% with pap. Drop back passers bore me. I'll take a QB like Ben any day. I still think the stonio trade bit us in the SB, he makes that catch and the Steelers have seven.

Does scoring touchdowns bore you too? I don't care how you do it, just get the ball in the endzone. Put some damn points on the board. Now, that is what's fun to watch.

What bores me is an offense that desn't know how to generate offense.

doesn't bore me... it frustrates me.

Clown ball doesn't help any arguments when it comes to elite QB's. We flop around for half a season and then pull out a few late victories in the 4th. Sure it's been fun and we win most of those games but last year we witnessed what can happen when we play a good team.

I'm not going to throw dirt on our SB victories but umm... we beat the Seahags and the Cardinals. It's not like we were playing great teams in those SB's. AZ did get hot but c'mon.. if we are going to win another SB or 2 we might want to play a little better because the chances of playing a newbie in the SB are slim.

Thanks, Dizz! Clown ball indeed it is.... All I am saying is, these days of dominating defense, holding good teams to 7 and 10 points are almost obsolete. That is what we got use to seeing during those sb runs...What Ben couldn't do our defense filled in the holes. Now or Defense is older and starting look a little burnout. I don't believe the defense can carry this team like they used to. We are going to need to outscore some teams if we want to continue to be successful.

On the other hand our offense is young and spry. Some of the core players have been in this system for a long time. I don't understand why they look so confused and unorganized most of the time. This thing is bigger than the OL. There are so serious fundemental flaws in our offensive system. Call me crazy, but I still believe the breakdowns start with the QB. Ben is just not fundamentally sound.

[Slapstick]

Ben still lacks the consistency necessary to make this offense one of the top units in the league.

As does the offensive line....

After all, while Ben produced three turnovers, he wasn't blocking for Mendenhall, right?

[grotonsteel]

The Steelers have been to three Super Bowls while Ben has been the quarterback. He's always been Good Ben/Bad Ben this isn't news and it isn't changing between now and the time he retires.

I like it, because it makes the game a lot more fun to watch.

Pappy


true.. but we have some fans on here who refuse to admit bad Ben exist.... :stirpot

"No such thing as a bad Ben... just bad people around Ben"

Oh, there's bad Ben..put Brady or Manning behind this line, would they have any good? At least ben can play behind a bad O line.

It's very easy to blame the o-line for everything, but where are all the pro-bowl linemen for the Patsies and the Colts? They don't have them. Those 2 QBs makes the better than they are, by getting rid of the football quickely. Ben doesn't do that. He loves making big plays, and because of that the results are more sacks that other top qbs.

The fans of the Steelers (myself included) can talk all they want about Ben being an elite qb, but the facts show that he is not elite, but a very good to great qb.

For the one poster talking about the Steelers not drafting anything for the offense. Look at the receivers and running backs the Steelers have. Are you kidding me? They can have great players everywhere on the team. Ben is a big play qb, so the Steelers draft the offensive players to complement those big plays, and that's receivers not o-line. If they spent all their top picks on the o-line, they would suffer on defense, and no receivers.

Ben, simply have to help his linemen out. Get rid of the damn ball sometimes. He has the option of changing call to quick slants at the LOS, but he doesn't do it often enough. That's on Ben, not OC, nor the line. Ben has to shoulder a lot of the blame for what's going on, and he acknowledges it himself. The only people who don't who are the fans, which blames everyone else on the Steelers for these problem except Ben.

Sorry folks Ben maybe a great qb, but not and elite one yet.

Who according to you is elite?? A team who can't win in playoffs but score 50 points a game in regular season is elite??? Good for you then.Can you list who according to you is elite QB???

Can you tell me how much talent Steelers have drafted early in the draft??

Mike Wallace- 3rd Rd pick who is coming on is own this year.
Antonio Brown- 7th rd pick. 2nd year. If you think he is all-pro in his 2nd yr you are nuts.He may become Jerry Rice but it will take time.
Manny Sanders- 3rd pick. 2nd year in NFL. Again if you think he knows all the routes and is all-pro then you are nuts.

O-lineman:
Pouncey-pro bowler. Guess where he was drafted.
Rest of the line- Sucks.

Offense has some talented players but they are young and will amke some mistakes. But O-line is outright pathetic and even brady won't help that.

Regarding your talented RB he sucks. RB with a 3.9 YPA is not talented in my book. He is good but not great.

You don't want Defense to suffer hence you suggest we don't spend high draft picks say for a LT which is the 2nd most important position in NFL team. And then you come here and bash offense for not being elite??? :wft

Again you can't make a chicken salad out of chicken ****.

I think you are gambler who believe he will always hit jackpot playing only penny slot machines.

[feltdizz]

It's still a team game... but if we are talking about elite QB's I don't think you can point to recent playoff losses as proof a guy isn't elite. I damn sure don't think Sanchez and Flacco are elite and they have beaten a better QB in my opinion.

[grotonsteel]

It's still a team game... but if we are talking about elite QB's I don't think you can point to recent playoff losses as proof a guy isn't elite. I damn sure don't think Sanchez and Flacco are elite and they have beaten a better QB in my opinion.


Well its a team game but when say for example Colts win its because Manning is elite and When Steelers win its because of defense. Double Standards i would say.

BTW Manning does suck in playoffs. No matter what.

[BURGH86STEEL]

Ben still lacks the consistency necessary to make this offense one of the top units in the league.

As does the offensive line....

After all, while Ben produced three turnovers, he wasn't blocking for Mendenhall, right?
I am talking about Ben's deficiencies as a QB. I hold the belief that there are things that Ben can do better to help the offensive line and offense in general. I am not going to blame the Oline for Ben's deficiencies as a player.

[BURGH86STEEL]

It's still a team game... but if we are talking about elite QB's I don't think you can point to recent playoff losses as proof a guy isn't elite. I damn sure don't think Sanchez and Flacco are elite and they have beaten a better QB in my opinion.


Well its a team game but when say for example Colts win its because Manning is elite and When Steelers win its because of defense. Double Standards i would say.

BTW Manning does suck in playoffs. No matter what.

The Colts team was built around Manning. The Steelers were built around their defense. Two different philosophies that won a lot of games in the league.

[grotonsteel]

It's still a team game... but if we are talking about elite QB's I don't think you can point to recent playoff losses as proof a guy isn't elite. I damn sure don't think Sanchez and Flacco are elite and they have beaten a better QB in my opinion.


Well its a team game but when say for example Colts win its because Manning is elite and When Steelers win its because of defense. Double Standards i would say.

BTW Manning does suck in playoffs. No matter what.

The Colts team was built around Manning. The Steelers were built around their defense. Two different philosophies that won a lot of games in the league.


No one is denying that but when Steelers are defeated Offense takes the majority of the blame even though Steelers Defense did not make any splash plays or Colts Defense gets blamed for every loss even though Manning might throw an INT on the last drive.

When you team is built around Defense you expect defense to take majority of the blame or credit in loss or win. Unfortunately for some Dick Lebeau and Defense can't be criticized no matter what where as its an open season for Bruce Arians, Ben and Mendy when everyone knows Steelers FO put all their eggs in one basket and that is Defense.

[feltdizz]

It's still a team game... but if we are talking about elite QB's I don't think you can point to recent playoff losses as proof a guy isn't elite. I damn sure don't think Sanchez and Flacco are elite and they have beaten a better QB in my opinion.


Well its a team game but when say for example Colts win its because Manning is elite and When Steelers win its because of defense. Double Standards i would say.

BTW Manning does suck in playoffs. No matter what.

look at the Colts without Manning... they'll probably move in a year or 2 if they don't get Luck. 8)

The whole franchise is built around Manning.

[papillon]

It's still a team game... but if we are talking about elite QB's I don't think you can point to recent playoff losses as proof a guy isn't elite. I damn sure don't think Sanchez and Flacco are elite and they have beaten a better QB in my opinion.


Well its a team game but when say for example Colts win its because Manning is elite and When Steelers win its because of defense. Double Standards i would say.

BTW Manning does suck in playoffs. No matter what.

The Colts team was built around Manning. The Steelers were built around their defense. Two different philosophies that won a lot of games in the league.

Which team has won more meaningful games? Different philosophies, different results, I'll take the Steelers results with a quarterback who might be average, good, great or elite I don't care where you rate him, but when it comes to needing plays in big games at big moments there isn't anyone in the league right now in Ben's class.

Like I said, his failure to get a first down in the Super Bowl's last drive completely fooled me; he has been so successful in those moments that I just assumed he succeed again. it didn't happen, but that is a rare occasion.

Just this past Sunday, as bad as the offense played in general, when they needed a drive for 3 points ,Ben manufactured it as if he was playing against a college team and not an NFL caliber team. It looked easy and Ben does that way more often than what happened in the Super Bowl.

Average - Maybe
Good - Maybe
Great - Maybe
Elite - Maybe

Clutch - NO DOUBT

I'll take clutch all day over being called elite, but sitting at home watching, or great and sitting at home watching, but hey, that's me. If you want him to look pretty doing it, that's fine, I don't need pretty.

Pappy

[grotonsteel]

It's still a team game... but if we are talking about elite QB's I don't think you can point to recent playoff losses as proof a guy isn't elite. I damn sure don't think Sanchez and Flacco are elite and they have beaten a better QB in my opinion.


Well its a team game but when say for example Colts win its because Manning is elite and When Steelers win its because of defense. Double Standards i would say.

BTW Manning does suck in playoffs. No matter what.

look at the Colts without Manning... they'll probably move in a year or 2 if they don't get Luck. 8)

The whole franchise is built around Manning.


Well thats the point. When Colts are knocked every year out of playoffs its the team not Manning's fault but when they win it because of manning. Double Standards anyone???

I think pappy said it right Ben is Clutch. And i believe Manning is a choker because he always come short in playoffs even though team is built around him.

[NJ-STEELER]

The way our OL is pieced together every year. I'm amazed people are surprised the offense struggles. It's not justtbe passing game that suffers either. This was the colts defense they couldn't even run on

Lots of posters like to build up sanders and brown to more then what they are right now. Don't get me wrong I like the 2 but they Every team seems to have 1 or 2 of those types. They're nothing extra special.
Eg. The giants 5th receiver had 2 tds this past week. One with asomugh covering him

[RuthlessBurgher]

I'll take clutch all day over being called elite

Ding ding ding!!! We have a winner!

Re: Fantasy Football, I want an "elite" passer.

Re: Real-Life NFL football, I want a clutch QB.

[BURGH86STEEL]

It's still a team game... but if we are talking about elite QB's I don't think you can point to recent playoff losses as proof a guy isn't elite. I damn sure don't think Sanchez and Flacco are elite and they have beaten a better QB in my opinion.


Well its a team game but when say for example Colts win its because Manning is elite and When Steelers win its because of defense. Double Standards i would say.

BTW Manning does suck in playoffs. No matter what.

The Colts team was built around Manning. The Steelers were built around their defense. Two different philosophies that won a lot of games in the league.

Which team has won more meaningful games? Different philosophies, different results, I'll take the Steelers results with a quarterback who might be average, good, great or elite I don't care where you rate him, but when it comes to needing plays in big games at big moments there isn't anyone in the league right now in Ben's class.

Like I said, his failure to get a first down in the Super Bowl's last drive completely fooled me; he has been so successful in those moments that I just assumed he succeed again. it didn't happen, but that is a rare occasion.

Just this past Sunday, as bad as the offense played in general, when they needed a drive for 3 points ,Ben manufactured it as if he was playing against a college team and not an NFL caliber team. It looked easy and Ben does that way more often than what happened in the Super Bowl.

Average - Maybe
Good - Maybe
Great - Maybe
Elite - Maybe

Clutch - NO DOUBT

I'll take clutch all day over being called elite, but sitting at home watching, or great and sitting at home watching, but hey, that's me. If you want him to look pretty doing it, that's fine, I don't need pretty.

Pappy

I believe that every game in the NFL is meaningful because of the 16 game schedule.

Ben's been clutch a lot throughout his career. Manning and Brady have been clutch through out their careers. That being said, all 3 of those QB's had their share of success and failures. Ben didn't play as well as those guys on a consistent enough basis to take the Steelers offense into the Colts or Pats class.

What many fans want is more consistent offense. For that to happen, I believe they will need more consistent play from the QB position on a play to play, game to game basis. Providing Ben with a better Oline won't keep him from holding the ball too long(at times), help him read defenses better, throw more accurate passes, or help him make quicker decisions with the football. At times, Ben did all those things well and the offense looked like a well oiled machine. It appears it didn't happen as often as some fan wanted.

[steelcurtain44]

It's still a team game... but if we are talking about elite QB's I don't think you can point to recent playoff losses as proof a guy isn't elite. I damn sure don't think Sanchez and Flacco are elite and they have beaten a better QB in my opinion.


Well its a team game but when say for example Colts win its because Manning is elite and When Steelers win its because of defense. Double Standards i would say.

BTW Manning does suck in playoffs. No matter what.

The Colts team was built around Manning. The Steelers were built around their defense. Two different philosophies that won a lot of games in the league.

Which team has won more meaningful games? Different philosophies, different results, I'll take the Steelers results with a quarterback who might be average, good, great or elite I don't care where you rate him, but when it comes to needing plays in big games at big moments there isn't anyone in the league right now in Ben's class.

Like I said, his failure to get a first down in the Super Bowl's last drive completely fooled me; he has been so successful in those moments that I just assumed he succeed again. it didn't happen, but that is a rare occasion.

Just this past Sunday, as bad as the offense played in general, when they needed a drive for 3 points ,Ben manufactured it as if he was playing against a college team and not an NFL caliber team. It looked easy and Ben does that way more often than what happened in the Super Bowl.

Average - Maybe
Good - Maybe
Great - Maybe
Elite - Maybe

Clutch - NO DOUBT

I'll take clutch all day over being called elite, but sitting at home watching, or great and sitting at home watching, but hey, that's me. If you want him to look pretty doing it, that's fine, I don't need pretty.

Pappy

I believe that every game in the NFL is meaningful because of the 16 game schedule.

Ben's been clutch a lot throughout his career. Manning and Brady have been clutch through out their careers. That being said, all 3 of those QB's had their share of success and failures. Ben didn't play as well as those guys on a consistent enough basis to take the Steelers offense into the Colts or Pats class.

What many fans want is more consistent offense. For that to happen, I believe they will need more consistent play from the QB position on a play to play, game to game basis. Providing Ben with a better Oline won't keep him from holding the ball too long(at times), help him read defenses better, throw more accurate passes, or help him make quicker decisions with the football. At times, Ben did all those things well and the offense looked like a well oiled machine. It appears it didn't happen as often as some fan wanted.


You truly get it. There is no way anyone on this board can downplay Manning or Brady. I hate both of them, but they are both HOF players to be, without question. You cannot compare Ben to either of those to. All 3 have won SBs. For those who talk about fantasy QBs and clutch QB, arent the one in the same? Ben hasn't won every game. Since he is better than the other 2, what's his record against the same teams, you all keep talking about. We all know the when Ben is pressed to outscore a QB with the abilites that they have, he has difficulty. And it's simply that Ben like's making big plays.

Look at the game against Seattle. He took the checkdown the whole game, when the deep routes were note there. He got rid of the ball quickly, and the end result, is that he was only sacked once or twice, and the o-line looked a lot better. You all can paint a picture of Ben all you want, but until he learns how to play QB, he will never meet his full potential. All the breaking out of tackles and launching the ball down field will get you big plays, but it will also cause TOs, and right now the Steelers are a TO machine, and most if not all of them has come from the QB. And yeah I know the o-line sucks and he's getting blinsided when he fumbles. Well whose fault is it for those awful ints he has? I know the o-line sucks and he does not have the time to throw the ball.

This crap is deja vu all over again. It happens all the time. When the offense is struggling the blame goes everywhere to Ben. From coach Tomlin to the front office, the o-line, the WRs, the RBs, the TEs, and the OC. And if Ben had'nt played all world the Steelers would have lost. Give it rest. Ben is just as responsible as the rest of the players for this struggling offense.

[NJ-STEELER]

Ben still lacks the consistency necessary to make this offense one of the top units in the league.

As does the offensive line....

After all, while Ben produced three turnovers, he wasn't blocking for Mendenhall, right?
I am talking about Ben's deficiencies as a QB. I hold the belief that there are things that Ben can do better to help the offensive line and offense in general. I am not going to blame the Oline for Ben's deficiencies as a player.

Who gets the blame for the running game averaging just over 1 yard per carry vs. The colts defense?

[grotonsteel]

[quote="steelcurtain44You truly get it. There is no way anyone on this board can downplay Manning or Brady. I hate both of them, but they are both HOF players to be, without question. You cannot compare Ben to either of those to. All 3 have won SBs. For those who talk about fantasy QBs and clutch QB, arent the one in the same? Ben hasn't won every game. Since he is better than the other 2, what's his record against the same teams, you all keep talking about. We all know the when Ben is pressed to outscore a QB with the abilites that they have, he has difficulty. And it's simply that Ben like's making big plays.

[/quote]


Can you tell me what was manning's stat last season??

You think fantasy QB and clutch QB are same??? :lol: :lol: :lol:


I will give you example of fantasy QB: Philip River along with peyton Manning. You also need a great example of fantasy QB checkout Ben's performance against cheatroits last season. He had good stats but it all came in garbage time.

Manning has team built around him, he plays in the dome and still he can't win big games.

[feltdizz]

Ben still lacks the consistency necessary to make this offense one of the top units in the league.

As does the offensive line....

After all, while Ben produced three turnovers, he wasn't blocking for Mendenhall, right?
I am talking about Ben's deficiencies as a QB. I hold the belief that there are things that Ben can do better to help the offensive line and offense in general. I am not going to blame the Oline for Ben's deficiencies as a player.

Who gets the blame for the running game averaging just over 1 yard per carry vs. The colts defense?

I think that's obvious...

but Burghsteel is talking about the QB.

There are threads about the abysmal running game and the horrible OL. However, this thread is about Good Ben vs Bad Ben.

[Slapstick]

I think that's obvious...

but Burghsteel is talking about the QB.

There are threads about the abysmal running game and the horrible OL. However, this thread is about Good Ben vs Bad Ben.

I see. So, one can make a nonsensical argument by blaming Ben for the offense's inconsistency simply by ignoring any other factors...all other factors must be ignored because the thread title says so...

Cool...I get it now...

[BURGH86STEEL]

[quote="steelcurtain44You truly get it. There is no way anyone on this board can downplay Manning or Brady. I hate both of them, but they are both HOF players to be, without question. You cannot compare Ben to either of those to. All 3 have won SBs. For those who talk about fantasy QBs and clutch QB, arent the one in the same? Ben hasn't won every game. Since he is better than the other 2, what's his record against the same teams, you all keep talking about. We all know the when Ben is pressed to outscore a QB with the abilites that they have, he has difficulty. And it's simply that Ben like's making big plays.




Can you tell me what was manning's stat last season??

You think fantasy QB and clutch QB are same??? :lol: :lol: :lol:


I will give you example of fantasy QB: Philip River along with peyton Manning. You also need a great example of fantasy QB checkout Ben's performance against cheatroits last season. He had good stats but it all came in garbage time.

Manning has team built around him, he plays in the dome and still he can't win big games.[/quote]

Manning passed for 33 TD's and the Colts offense was 3rd in the league in ppg. Fans would love to see that type of production in the Steelers offense every season.

Fantasy football is based on production. Many times then not, production helps teams to win games. That's where fans making this claim about fantasy football err.

If you believe like I do, every game is a big game. Some games are bigger then others.
It's a false statement to say Manning can't win big games. He's had his share of successes and failures in big games. Same goes for EVERY QB in the league that's been in the playoffs consistently.

[BURGH86STEEL]

I think that's obvious...

but Burghsteel is talking about the QB.

There are threads about the abysmal running game and the horrible OL. However, this thread is about Good Ben vs Bad Ben.

I see. So, one can make a nonsensical argument by blaming Ben for the offense's inconsistency simply by ignoring any other factors...all other factors must be ignored because the thread title says so...

Cool...I get it now...

Being that most offenses start with the QB, I feel that Ben is the biggest reason why the offense remains an inconsistent force. As I stated before, fixing the Oline is not going to fix the inconsistencies in Ben's game. That's something Ben needs to work on.

[feltdizz]

I think that's obvious...

but Burghsteel is talking about the QB.

There are threads about the abysmal running game and the horrible OL. However, this thread is about Good Ben vs Bad Ben.

I see. So, one can make a nonsensical argument by blaming Ben for the offense's inconsistency simply by ignoring any other factors...all other factors must be ignored because the thread title says so...

Cool...I get it now...

Good... it's much easier to debate a topic when we stay on it.

Heck, we ignore Ben when we bash the OL, WR's, running game etc... keep it consistent. :)

[grotonsteel]

[quote="steelcurtain44You truly get it. There is no way anyone on this board can downplay Manning or Brady. I hate both of them, but they are both HOF players to be, without question. You cannot compare Ben to either of those to. All 3 have won SBs. For those who talk about fantasy QBs and clutch QB, arent the one in the same? Ben hasn't won every game. Since he is better than the other 2, what's his record against the same teams, you all keep talking about. We all know the when Ben is pressed to outscore a QB with the abilites that they have, he has difficulty. And it's simply that Ben like's making big plays.




Can you tell me what was manning's stat last season??

You think fantasy QB and clutch QB are same??? :lol: :lol: :lol:


I will give you example of fantasy QB: Philip River along with peyton Manning. You also need a great example of fantasy QB checkout Ben's performance against cheatroits last season. He had good stats but it all came in garbage time.

Manning has team built around him, he plays in the dome and still he can't win big games.

Manning passed for 33 TD's and the Colts offense was 3rd in the league in ppg. Fans would love to see that type of production in the Steelers offense every season.

Fantasy football is based on production. Many times then not, production helps teams to win games. That's where fans making this claim about fantasy football err.

If you believe like I do, every game is a big game. Some games are bigger then others.
It's a false statement to say Manning can't win big games. He's had his share of successes and failures in big games. Same goes for EVERY QB in the league that's been in the playoffs consistently.[/quote]


Well you forgot to mention 17 INT by Manning last season. You forget that Manning plays in dome 8 games/season unless you believe that throwing in cold weather is no different than throwing in the dome.

Philip Rivers led offense was no.1 in the league last season and still they could not make Playoffs in a weak division. Production just tells you one side of the story. Rivers more often than not was collecting garbage TDs last season. He sucked to be frank last season.

The thing Ben had great stats against Cheatroits but he played horrible in that game. Now if looked at the stats i would say Ben had a good game but in reality he played bad in that game.

Again you take productions i will take a QB who will make plays when the team needs more.

[NJ-STEELER]

Ben still lacks the consistency necessary to make this offense one of the top units in the league.

As does the offensive line....

After all, while Ben produced three turnovers, he wasn't blocking for Mendenhall, right?
I am talking about Ben's deficiencies as a QB. I hold the belief that there are things that Ben can do better to help the offensive line and offense in general. I am not going to blame the Oline for Ben's deficiencies as a player.

Who gets the blame for the running game averaging just over 1 yard per carry vs. The colts defense?

I think that's obvious...

but Burghsteel is talking about the QB.

There are threads about the abysmal running game and the horrible OL. However, this thread is about Good Ben vs Bad Ben.

so its obvious its the OLs fault when defenders come free into the backfield to meet our RB behind the LOS when the running game faulter, but its not obvious who's fault it is when the same defender comes in untouched when its a passing play??

gotcha

[feltdizz]

I've bashed the OL, I've bashed Mendy's dancing with the stars audition. I've bashed the Aaron Smith swinging door.

While the OL is responsible for a ton its not all on them. If Ben was supposed to take a 2 step and he tried something different and was strip sacked its not on Scott. If Ben throws high its not because of the OL.

Some people will never blame Ben for anything. I have no problem blasting any Steeler given our offensive offense.

Does Ben deserve any blame or is he safe because he is our franchise QB?

[BURGH86STEEL]

[quote="steelcurtain44You truly get it. There is no way anyone on this board can downplay Manning or Brady. I hate both of them, but they are both HOF players to be, without question. You cannot compare Ben to either of those to. All 3 have won SBs. For those who talk about fantasy QBs and clutch QB, arent the one in the same? Ben hasn't won every game. Since he is better than the other 2, what's his record against the same teams, you all keep talking about. We all know the when Ben is pressed to outscore a QB with the abilites that they have, he has difficulty. And it's simply that Ben like's making big plays.




Can you tell me what was manning's stat last season??

You think fantasy QB and clutch QB are same??? :lol: :lol: :lol:


I will give you example of fantasy QB: Philip River along with peyton Manning. You also need a great example of fantasy QB checkout Ben's performance against cheatroits last season. He had good stats but it all came in garbage time.

Manning has team built around him, he plays in the dome and still he can't win big games.

Manning passed for 33 TD's and the Colts offense was 3rd in the league in ppg. Fans would love to see that type of production in the Steelers offense every season.

Fantasy football is based on production. Many times then not, production helps teams to win games. That's where fans making this claim about fantasy football err.

If you believe like I do, every game is a big game. Some games are bigger then others.
It's a false statement to say Manning can't win big games. He's had his share of successes and failures in big games. Same goes for EVERY QB in the league that's been in the playoffs consistently.


Well you forgot to mention 17 INT by Manning last season. You forget that Manning plays in dome 8 games/season unless you believe that throwing in cold weather is no different than throwing in the dome.

Philip Rivers led offense was no.1 in the league last season and still they could not make Playoffs in a weak division. Production just tells you one side of the story. Rivers more often than not was collecting garbage TDs last season. He sucked to be frank last season.

The thing Ben had great stats against Cheatroits but he played horrible in that game. Now if looked at the stats i would say Ben had a good game but in reality he played bad in that game.

Again you take productions i will take a QB who will make plays when the team needs more.[/quote]

So Manning is a great QB because he plays in a dome? Come on man, takes more then a dome to make a great QB. Whether you like it or not, Manning is a great QB.

Wouldn't it be nice if Steelers fans could say our offense was the number 2 scoring offense? In your mind, I suppose Rivers didn't have anything to do with the number 2 scoring offense?

In regard to Rivers TDs, 14 of his 30 TDs were in the first 2 QT's. 20 of his 30 TD's were in the first 3 QT's. Not exactly what I would call garbage time. The Chargers problems went beyond the QB. Their special teams lost more then one game for them. Steelers fans witnessed special teams lose their share of games for the Steelers.

I can see you didn't understand my statement in regard to production.

I don't know why fans like yourself have to diminish or minimize other player's accomplishments to prop Ben? Just because I believe other players play the position with more consistency does not mean I feel Ben is a bad player. I feel that the offense functions at a level of inconsistency because of Ben's inconsistencies as a QB. That's my analysis and you don't have to agree.

[NJ-STEELER]

I've bashed the OL, I've bashed Mendy's dancing with the stars audition. I've bashed the Aaron Smith swinging door.

While the OL is responsible for a ton its not all on them. If Ben was supposed to take a 2 step and he tried something different and was strip sacked its not on Scott. If Ben throws high its not because of the OL.

Some people will never blame Ben for anything. I have no problem blasting any Steeler given our offensive offense.

Does Ben deserve any blame or is he safe because he is our franchise QB?


of course he deserves blame on some plays. again show me a QB that doesnt make mistakes

and looking at how bad the OL has been in the run game, i figured it would be a given to what holds this offense down. they're not just bad in the pass game, they're bad in the run game too.

if asking for a secure pocket on the majority of snap sis too much to ask of this OL, then we're F'ed

[papillon]

I think that's obvious...

but Burghsteel is talking about the QB.

There are threads about the abysmal running game and the horrible OL. However, this thread is about Good Ben vs Bad Ben.

I see. So, one can make a nonsensical argument by blaming Ben for the offense's inconsistency simply by ignoring any other factors...all other factors must be ignored because the thread title says so...

Cool...I get it now...

Being that most offenses start with the QB, I feel that Ben is the biggest reason why the offense remains an inconsistent force. As I stated before, fixing the Oline is not going to fix the inconsistencies in Ben's game. That's something Ben needs to work on.

You may be right about him being the biggest reason they are inconsistent, however, he's also the biggest reason the Steelers have acquired last two super bowl rings and have participated in a third. And, I don't mean just the individual SB games, I'm talking overall and getting to the super bowl.

Like I said, the sooner anyone that looks at his flaws and complains, learns that there will be valleys because of his style will enjoy the peaks a h3ll of a lot better. He isn't changing folks.

Pappy

[BURGH86STEEL]

I think that's obvious...

but Burghsteel is talking about the QB.

There are threads about the abysmal running game and the horrible OL. However, this thread is about Good Ben vs Bad Ben.

I see. So, one can make a nonsensical argument by blaming Ben for the offense's inconsistency simply by ignoring any other factors...all other factors must be ignored because the thread title says so...

Cool...I get it now...

Being that most offenses start with the QB, I feel that Ben is the biggest reason why the offense remains an inconsistent force. As I stated before, fixing the Oline is not going to fix the inconsistencies in Ben's game. That's something Ben needs to work on.

You may be right about him being the biggest reason they are inconsistent, however, he's also the biggest reason the Steelers have acquired last two super bowl rings and have participated in a third. And, I don't mean just the individual SB games, I'm talking overall and getting to the super bowl.

Like I said, the sooner anyone that looks at his flaws and complains, learns that there will be valleys because of his style will enjoy the peaks a h3ll of a lot better. He isn't changing folks.

Pappy
I believe the defense was the biggest contributor to this teams SB runs. That's because the defense is the carried this team. That doesn't mean Ben didn't contribute.

I've come to terms with who Ben is as a player. Many have not when they state, the Steelers should be better offensively.

[feltdizz]

I've bashed the OL, I've bashed Mendy's dancing with the stars audition. I've bashed the Aaron Smith swinging door.

While the OL is responsible for a ton its not all on them. If Ben was supposed to take a 2 step and he tried something different and was strip sacked its not on Scott. If Ben throws high its not because of the OL.

Some people will never blame Ben for anything. I have no problem blasting any Steeler given our offensive offense.

Does Ben deserve any blame or is he safe because he is our franchise QB?


of course he deserves blame on some plays. again show me a QB that doesnt make mistakes

and looking at how bad the OL has been in the run game, i figured it would be a given to what holds this offense down. they're not just bad in the pass game, they're bad in the run game too.

if asking for a secure pocket on the majority of snap sis too much to ask of this OL, then we're F'ed

All QB's make mistakes and since I'm a Steeler fan I tend to focus on our QB more than the others...

[papillon]

I think that's obvious...

but Burghsteel is talking about the QB.

There are threads about the abysmal running game and the horrible OL. However, this thread is about Good Ben vs Bad Ben.

I see. So, one can make a nonsensical argument by blaming Ben for the offense's inconsistency simply by ignoring any other factors...all other factors must be ignored because the thread title says so...

Cool...I get it now...

Being that most offenses start with the QB, I feel that Ben is the biggest reason why the offense remains an inconsistent force. As I stated before, fixing the Oline is not going to fix the inconsistencies in Ben's game. That's something Ben needs to work on.

You may be right about him being the biggest reason they are inconsistent, however, he's also the biggest reason the Steelers have acquired last two super bowl rings and have participated in a third. And, I don't mean just the individual SB games, I'm talking overall and getting to the super bowl.

Like I said, the sooner anyone that looks at his flaws and complains, learns that there will be valleys because of his style will enjoy the peaks a h3ll of a lot better. He isn't changing folks.

Pappy
I believe the defense was the biggest contributor to this teams SB runs. That's because the defense is the carried this team. That doesn't mean Ben didn't contribute.

I've come to terms with who Ben is as a player. Many have not when they state, the Steelers should be better offensively.

Well, either way you look at it, the Steelers had a great defenses before Ben arrived (but, no super bowl wins) and he put them over the top. Without Ben they don't get the rings or without the defense and having Ben they don't get the rings, both were equally important to the rings.

I love the way Ben plays, it's so out of the box and unique that watching a Steeler game is kind of like watching a train wreck. You don't want to watch, but your curiosity gets the better of you and have to watch. :tt2

Pappy

[grotonsteel]

[quote="steelcurtain44You truly get it. There is no way anyone on this board can downplay Manning or Brady. I hate both of them, but they are both HOF players to be, without question. You cannot compare Ben to either of those to. All 3 have won SBs. For those who talk about fantasy QBs and clutch QB, arent the one in the same? Ben hasn't won every game. Since he is better than the other 2, what's his record against the same teams, you all keep talking about. We all know the when Ben is pressed to outscore a QB with the abilites that they have, he has difficulty. And it's simply that Ben like's making big plays.




Can you tell me what was manning's stat last season??

You think fantasy QB and clutch QB are same??? :lol: :lol: :lol:


I will give you example of fantasy QB: Philip River along with peyton Manning. You also need a great example of fantasy QB checkout Ben's performance against cheatroits last season. He had good stats but it all came in garbage time.

Manning has team built around him, he plays in the dome and still he can't win big games.

Manning passed for 33 TD's and the Colts offense was 3rd in the league in ppg. Fans would love to see that type of production in the Steelers offense every season.

Fantasy football is based on production. Many times then not, production helps teams to win games. That's where fans making this claim about fantasy football err.

If you believe like I do, every game is a big game. Some games are bigger then others.
It's a false statement to say Manning can't win big games. He's had his share of successes and failures in big games. Same goes for EVERY QB in the league that's been in the playoffs consistently.


Well you forgot to mention 17 INT by Manning last season. You forget that Manning plays in dome 8 games/season unless you believe that throwing in cold weather is no different than throwing in the dome.

Philip Rivers led offense was no.1 in the league last season and still they could not make Playoffs in a weak division. Production just tells you one side of the story. Rivers more often than not was collecting garbage TDs last season. He sucked to be frank last season.

The thing Ben had great stats against Cheatroits but he played horrible in that game. Now if looked at the stats i would say Ben had a good game but in reality he played bad in that game.

Again you take productions i will take a QB who will make plays when the team needs more.

So Manning is a great QB because he plays in a dome? Come on man, takes more then a dome to make a great QB. Whether you like it or not, Manning is a great QB.

Wouldn't it be nice if Steelers fans could say our offense was the number 2 scoring offense? In your mind, I suppose Rivers didn't have anything to do with the number 2 scoring offense?

In regard to Rivers TDs, 14 of his 30 TDs were in the first 2 QT's. 20 of his 30 TD's were in the first 3 QT's. Not exactly what I would call garbage time. The Chargers problems went beyond the QB. Their special teams lost more then one game for them. Steelers fans witnessed special teams lose their share of games for the Steelers.

I can see you didn't understand my statement in regard to production.

I don't know why fans like yourself have to diminish or minimize other player's accomplishments to prop Ben? Just because I believe other players play the position with more consistency does not mean I feel Ben is a bad player. I feel that the offense functions at a level of inconsistency because of Ben's inconsistencies as a QB. That's my analysis and you don't have to agree.[/quote]


You missed my point about Rivers. I was saying he was productive and yet his team could not even win 10 games. Even their Defense was No.1 in stats. But if you believe Chargers could not win 10 games last season because of Special Teams well i disgaree.

I never said Manning is good because of dome but dome is definitely a factor in his passing attack. Again if you think throwing in dome and throwing in tundra is same so be it. Colts are built around manning and if they fail Manning should be taking a bigger blame for defeat.

You want Steelers to be No.2 offensively...i want Steelers to be No.1 offensively but it is not gonna happen., First of all Steelers team is built around Defense. Do you ever believe that Steelers are going to throw when they lead by 2 TDs in 3rd Q???? If Steelers build a team around Ben and Ben can't carry the team i will blame Ben and only Ben but right now that is not the case.Steelers believe in good Defense and balanced attack. It got them to 3 SB and won 2. I won't disagree with Steelers philosophy.

You take the production in Regular season and i will take Super Bowl wins and Playoff performance.

[fordfixer]

Bires: Steelers need better Ben

http://www.timesonline.com/sports/steel ... 0a59d.html (http://www.timesonline.com/sports/steelers/bires-steelers-need-better-ben/article_e6cebab0-43e7-5685-8025-ec00e240a59d.html)

Posted: Saturday, October 1, 2011 5:35 pm | Updated: 5:45 pm, Sat Oct 1, 2011.

By Mike Bires mbires@timesonline.com

If the Steelers are to pull off a mild upset today, Ben Roethlisberger needs to step up and lead the way.

He can't play the way he did in the Steelers' first two road games this season.

Granted, the Steelers' offensive line is in disarray. Due to injuries, the fourth different line combination will start today in Houston. The chaos up front has resulted in poor run blocking and sub-par pass protection.

Still, Roethlisberger has to find ways to overcome the problems on the offensive line.

It won't be easy against a vastly improved Texans' defense. But it can be done.

For Roethlisberger, it starts with being a smarter quarterback. His four interceptions and his four lost fumbles aren't all his fault. But he deserves his share of the blame.

Roethlisberger is universally admired for the way he keeps plays alive with his ability to break tackles, scramble and improvise. That's the way he's always played the game. But with the kind of pressure he's been under --specially on the road - he must do a better job of taking care of the football. He's been sloppy.

All four of his interceptions have come on the road. All four of his fumbles have also come on the road. He was sacked four times in Baltimore and three times in Indy.

He can't be throwing the ball into coverage when receivers aren't open. He can't be holding onto the football when pass protection breaks down and he's about to get nailed.

This week, there's been a lot of talk about the Steelers using more of a quick striking pass attack -- receivers running shorter routes, Roethlisberger taking more three-step drops. There also figures to be some tweaking with the running game. If Rashard Mendenhall can get untracked for the first time this year, that can also open things up for the passing game, especially on play action.

Last Sunday, fans in Lucas Oil Stadium went into a frenzy after Dwight Freeney's sack of Roethlisberger forced a fumble that the Colts returned for a touchdown. That play changed the entire complexion of the game. It breathed life into the winless Colts. And it was Roethlisberger who was to blame.

The original call from offensive coordinator Bruce Arians was for a draw play with a quick pass option. Roethlisberger didn't run the draw, and he didn't throw after a quick three-step drop. He dropped back five steps, thus paving the way for Freeney to nail him.

Fortunately for the Steelers (2-1), they avoided an ugly defeat and beat the Colts (0-3) when Roethlisberger engineered a game-winning field goal drive in the final two minutes of the game.

Today, the high-powered Texans (2-1) figure to score their share of points. For the Steelers to win, they'll have to score often too.

For that to happen, Roethlisberger must avoid the mistakes he's made in previous road trips this year.

[NorthCoast]

Bires: Steelers need better Ben

http://www.timesonline.com/sports/steel ... 0a59d.html (http://www.timesonline.com/sports/steelers/bires-steelers-need-better-ben/article_e6cebab0-43e7-5685-8025-ec00e240a59d.html)

Posted: Saturday, October 1, 2011 5:35 pm | Updated: 5:45 pm, Sat Oct 1, 2011.

By Mike Bires mbires@timesonline.com

If the Steelers are to pull off a mild upset today, Ben Roethlisberger needs to step up and ........

The original call from offensive coordinator Bruce Arians was for a draw play with a quick pass option. Roethlisberger didn't run the draw, and he didn't throw after a quick three-step drop. He dropped back five steps, thus paving the way for Freeney to nail him.

,,,,,


So the truth is out, it is not all BA's fault that the O is lame.....looks like Ben has a hand in it too. (this is a prime example of why Ben will never want BA gone. Ben changes the play and runs whatever he wants, but gets no grief from the staff.)

[NJ-STEELER]

I call bullspit.

How did Wallace know to run the pattern if it was only Ben that changed the play.

And that was barely a traditional 5 step drop. Still don't see how Scott can't even hiold up freeny for a second. He was right next to him

If that were a draw. Freeny would have swallowed up mendy ngata style

Maybe Scott gives this guy some good quotes and he doesnt want that to stop

[feltdizz]

I call bullspit.

How did Wallace know to run the pattern if it was only Ben that changed the play.

And that was barely a traditional 5 step drop. Still don't see how Scott can't even hiold up freeny for a second. He was right next to him

If that were a draw. Freeny would have swallowed up mendy ngata style

Maybe Scott gives this guy some good quotes and he doesnt want that to stop

Every other QB but Ben makes mistakes...

I'm pretty sure Ben and Wallace have their own thing going on when they see something.

[NJ-STEELER]

i dont give a crap what the play call is, if there's a DE right next to you, one should at least push him out of the way. DO SOMETHING!!

scott could have pushed him up field and he would have had that extra second to release the ball.

it also would have helped if it was a delayed hand off. essentially eliminating him from the play

or do you prefer to let the other team's best defensive player to go unblocked?

[feltdizz]

If it's inside or quick pass what 's the point? Maybe this is the way the play is designed.

[NJ-STEELER]

what do you mean whats the point?

its pushing their best defensive player further away from the ball.

you've never seen an OL push an rusher up field on a draw or a screen. its the same concept.

[hawaiiansteel]

people can complain about the Bad Ben, but can you imagine how bad our offense will be behind this sorry excuse for an OL if Ben is injured and can't play?


Roethlisberger injury would be critical blow

October, 2, 2011
By Jamison Hensley


The Steelers have dealt with injuries throughout the first quarter of this season, but they would be seriously be tested if quarterback Ben Roethlisberger is sidelined.

He injured his left foot on the second-to-last series at Houston and left the locker room wearing a walking boot, according to the Associated Press. Another report says Roethlisberger boarded the team charter on crutches. Roethlisberger had an X-ray after the game, but he said he didn't know the results. An MRI is likely Monday.

The Steelers went 3-1 to start last season when Roethlisberger served a four-game suspension. But this would be a devastating blow now because the circumstances are different. This is a Pittsburgh team that is dealing with three new starters on the offensive line and a hamstring injury to running back Rashard Mendenhall, who left Sunday's game and didn't return.

It would be difficult for Charlie Batch or Dennis Dixon to carry the Steelers without a stable offensive line and proven running back. If Roethlisberger is sidelined, Dixon might be the better choice because of his mobility.

Roethlisberger was sacked a season-high five times and was hurried countless other times. He also was hit below the knee for the second time in three weeks, but he never left the game. During the Steelers' final drive, Roethlisberger moved with a noticeable limp.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_ ... tical-blow (http://espn.go.com/blog/afcnorth/post/_/id/32611/roethlisberger-injury-would-be-critical-blow)