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Starlifter
09-26-2011, 12:21 AM
everyone is rightly focusing on the sorry state of our offensive line - but quite frankly what scares me more is the front 3 of our defense. the hallmark of the steelers in the lebeau era has been stuff the run and allow the LB's to make sacks. the key has always been those front 3 taking 5 guys.

not any more.

I love aaron smith - but he was pushed all over the field tonight. nothing spectacular from the other 2 either. they colts didn't have to double those guys at at all - and it showed. it's not just been this game either. take the seahawks with a grain of salt cause we didn't need to blitz much at all - but the reason we haven't been getting good pressure on the QB, is there are enough o-linemen free to pick up our linebackers.

between the d-line looking slow and the total lack of investment (other than pouncey) in the o-line over the last 10 years - I'm very very concerned.

this could be very ugly next week against houston.

insanesteelersfan
09-26-2011, 12:36 AM
everyone is rightly focusing on the sorry state of our offensive line - but quite frankly what scares me more is the front 3 of our defense. the hallmark of the steelers in the lebeau era has been stuff the run and allow the LB's to make sacks. the key has always been those front 3 taking 5 guys.

not any more.

I love aaron smith - but he was pushed all over the field tonight. nothing spectacular from the other 2 either. they colts didn't have to double those guys at at all - and it showed. it's not just been this game either. take the seahawks with a grain of salt cause we didn't need to blitz much at all - but the reason we haven't been getting good pressure on the QB, is there are enough o-linemen free to pick up our linebackers.

between the d-line looking slow and the total lack of investment (other than pouncey) in the o-line over the last 10 years - I'm very very concerned.

this could be very ugly next week against houston.




I agree with you. Smith should have never made the team in my opinion. But even Casey has looked slow and lethargic. And even the direct guys behind them, as in Farrior has looked terrible. Time to insert some youth and energy. Start ANYONE over Smith. And play Sylvester over Fsrrior if he continues to look bad.

Steelhere10
09-26-2011, 12:56 AM
everyone is rightly focusing on the sorry state of our offensive line - but quite frankly what scares me more is the front 3 of our defense. the hallmark of the steelers in the lebeau era has been stuff the run and allow the LB's to make sacks. the key has always been those front 3 taking 5 guys.

not any more.

I love aaron smith - but he was pushed all over the field tonight. nothing spectacular from the other 2 either. they colts didn't have to double those guys at at all - and it showed. it's not just been this game either. take the seahawks with a grain of salt cause we didn't need to blitz much at all - but the reason we haven't been getting good pressure on the QB, is there are enough o-linemen free to pick up our linebackers.

between the d-line looking slow and the total lack of investment (other than pouncey) in the o-line over the last 10 years - I'm very very concerned.

this could be very ugly next week against houston.




I agree with you. Smith should have never made the team in my opinion. But even Casey has looked slow and lethargic. And even the direct guys behind them, as in Farrior has looked terrible. Time to insert some youth and energy. Start ANYONE over Smith. And play Sylvester over Fsrrior if he continues to look bad.I agree.

NW Steeler
09-26-2011, 01:00 AM
It is looking like Saap was right about our D being old. Smith did get swallowed up tonight. But you know they are not going to start anyone else over him if he is healthy. Farrior is sitting out a lot of plays too. Not sure if Foote is any better. We still have a lot of good pieces in place. But they are going to have to rotate some of the young blood one of these days. I am shuddering about what Houston may do to our D next week as well.

hawaiiansteel
09-26-2011, 01:26 AM
Steelers defensive linemen learning on go

By Ralph N. Paulk, PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Monday, September 26, 2011


INDIANAPOLIS At some point, Steelers coach Mike Tomlin must come to grips with the inescapable reality that his aging defensive ends, Aaron Smith and Brett Keisel, aren't the impact players they once were.

It could be argued that Tomlin and general manager Kevin Colbert began looking toward the future two years ago when the Steelers plucked Ziggy Hood off the draft board with the 32nd overall selection. Then, with the 31st pick this year, the Steelers opted for Cameron Heyward.

Hood and Heyward appeared worthy of the Steelers' first-round investments even as the Steelers struggled Sunday night against the surprisingly stubborn Indianapolis Colts at Lucas Oil Stadium.

Hood, who started for the ailing Keisel, went most of the way with Heyward pitching in relief. Together, they were more than adequate against the run. More importantly, they often frustrated Indianapolis quarterback Kerry Collins, who suffered a concussion in the second half and was replaced by Curtis Painter early in the fourth quarter.

Defensive coordinator D!ck LeBeau didn't panic when Keisel was shelved with a sprained knee last week. But his pulse probably sped up having Hood, in his third year, backed up by a rookie who spent much of his career at Ohio State playing defensive tackle.

For Hood, this was a pivotal game. He had to prove he could be as effective against the run as he is rushing the passer as he did in swatting down Collins on a third-down throw that fell well short of his target on the Colts' first possession.

For Heyward, it was an opportunity to build on the momentum he gathered during last week's 24-0 win over Seattle. He started the night by flushing Collins out of the pocket and closed by denying running back Delone Carter access through a seemingly huge hole.

Heyward may have had even more to prove, considering he was the 12th defensive lineman chosen in the draft. He was overshadowed by Marcell Dareus (Buffalo) and Nick Fairley (Detroit), both of whom were top-10 picks.

But Hood and Heyward were overshadowed some as the Colts' defensive ends, Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis, combined for three sacks. That included a sack and caused fumble by Freeney that resulted in a 48-yard touchdown return by defensive end Jamaal Anderson that tied the score, 10-10, late in the second quarter.

Despite the performances his young, athletic defensive ends, LeBeau must temper his enthusiasm, partly because the Steelers weren't facing the Peyton Manning-led offense that played a significant role in helping the Colts win two of their previous three meetings with the Steelers.

Collins, a 17-year veteran, was erratic but he helped keep the Colts in the game. Still, he missed a few reads and easily was flustered even when Hood and Heyward themselves seemed confused.

If nothing else, LeBeau probably should grade his backup defensive ends on a curve, considering the Colts' battered offensive line had only one returning 2010 starter, center Jeff Saturday. Guard Ryan Diem was put on the inactive list with an ankle sprain.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... z1Z1edaT5o (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_758728.html#ixzz1Z1edaT5o)

steeler_george
09-26-2011, 10:22 AM
I thought that Hampton is still playing well, demanding a lot of dbl teams. That is evident by all the chop blocking on him. But there is defently a sort of eerrie look about the front 3, failing to cover their gaps and no push.

NW Steeler
09-26-2011, 10:30 AM
If nothing else, LeBeau probably should grade his backup defensive ends on a curve, considering the Colts' battered offensive line had only one returning 2010 starter, center Jeff Saturday. Guard Ryan Diem was put on the inactive list with an ankle sprain.

Funny how their "scrub" oline can open holes and block, and ours cant do SQUAT. Between the lack of push from our guys and Mendy's tap dancing - our run game looked worse than I can remember.

flippy
09-26-2011, 10:35 AM
I agree here. The Oline is the Oline. We've dealt with a patch work of less than mediocre for years and we can deal with that and still win. It ultimately comes down to Ben just dealing with it and making due and limiting mistakes.

The problem with the D front 7 is extra concerning.

Smitty again looked done last night. He's getting moved around like we've never seen. And last night Casey was even handled pretty well. These guys aren't getting a push at all. They're mostly going backward and it's hurting the LBs ability to make plays.

On the outside, Harrison and Woodley aren't doing that much better. These guys are paid too well to ever lose a battle when they're blocked one on one by a TE. And Harrison was especially seeing a one on one battle with a TE frequently last night.

Farrior's performance is concerning as well. And we're seeing a lot of Foote as a result. The big question is why not more Sly?

And we're getting 0 pressure when we rush 3 or 4. Not good at all. And I'm not sure we've seen the best competition yet from opposing OLines.

We need to get a lot better. And fast.

Mister Pittsburgh
09-26-2011, 10:38 AM
Right now we should have Heyward, Hampton, Hood on the field. Smith is toast. And Hampton is as well, there just isn't even a player on the roster groomed to take his spot. I think that the sorry state of our OL can somewhat be blamed on having to re-sign aged veterans out of desperation because they failed to draft and groom players so they were ready to take over those positions.

phillyesq
09-26-2011, 10:45 AM
I love aaron smith - but he was pushed all over the field tonight. nothing spectacular from the other 2 either. they colts didn't have to double those guys at at all - and it showed. it's not just been this game either. take the seahawks with a grain of salt cause we didn't need to blitz much at all - but the reason we haven't been getting good pressure on the QB, is there are enough o-linemen free to pick up our linebackers.


Sadly, I agree. The Colts seemed to have good success running directly at Aaron Smith, which was concerning. On passing downs, Smith seemed to generate no push at all.

When I saw Heyward on the field, he seemed to be effective. Ziggy generated some nice push on passing plays at least.

I'd like to see Heyward start to get a few more reps, and perhaps McLendon as well. Against Seattle, Ziggy got a lot more playing time, at the expense of Smith, even before Keisel was hurt. I hope that continues.

Smith has been one of my favorite Steelers, but so far, hasn't seemed like the same guy.

Djfan
09-26-2011, 10:46 AM
Right now we should have Heyward, Hampton, Hood on the field. Smith is toast. And Hampton is as well, there just isn't even a player on the roster groomed to take his spot. I think that the sorry state of our OL can somewhat be blamed on having to re-sign aged veterans out of desperation because they failed to draft and groom players so they were ready to take over those positions.


I agree, except Hampton. He still looked good to me last night. He just looked like he needed support from others more. I like the 3Hs out there - Hampton, Hood, Heyward. They could do much better.

Oviedo
09-26-2011, 11:20 AM
I agree here. The Oline is the Oline. We've dealt with a patch work of less than mediocre for years and we can deal with that and still win. It ultimately comes down to Ben just dealing with it and making due and limiting mistakes.

The problem with the D front 7 is extra concerning.

Smitty again looked done last night. He's getting moved around like we've never seen. And last night Casey was even handled pretty well. These guys aren't getting a push at all. They're mostly going backward and it's hurting the LBs ability to make plays.

On the outside, Harrison and Woodley aren't doing that much better. These guys are paid too well to ever lose a battle when they're blocked one on one by a TE. And Harrison was especially seeing a one on one battle with a TE frequently last night.

Farrior's performance is concerning as well. And we're seeing a lot of Foote as a result. The big question is why not more Sly?

And we're getting 0 pressure when we rush 3 or 4. Not good at all. And I'm not sure we've seen the best competition yet from opposing OLines.

We need to get a lot better. And fast.

I have to agree to a degree that the front seven has looked bad at times. Only Ziggy and Timmons appear to be playing with any energy. IMO Kiesel was solid until he got hurt but Smith is done. Put the guy out of his misery he is getting pushed all over the field. I'll give Casey a bit of a pass because he is getting chop blocked all over the place.

At LB Farrior looks slow. Woodely looks like he is thinking about how to spend his money. Harrison still looks hurt.

I think we may have missed the window to get younger on "D" and this could become a long painful season to watch.

Steel Life
09-26-2011, 12:23 PM
I'm going to wait a bit before putting Smith out to pasture, he's been too good for too long & a loyal soldier to boot to simply dismiss him. And while it's easy to point out that on the few plays where he was highlighted during the telecast that Smith was pushed around, how do we know what his assignment was on the plays? Now I'm not saying he's doing well, but I won't say he's done either. After all...wasn't he playing when they shut out the Seahawks just last week?

feltdizz
09-26-2011, 12:29 PM
I'm going to wait a bit before putting Smith out to pasture, he's been too good for too long & a loyal soldier to boot to simply dismiss him. And while it's easy to point out that on the few plays where he was highlighted during the telecast that Smith was pushed around, how do we know what his assignment was on the plays? Now I'm not saying he's doing well, but I won't say he's done either. After all...wasn't he playing when they shut out the Seahawks just last week?

Smith's assignment was to get pushed around all game...

I'm sorry but the "too good for too long" is a horrible excuse for him to start this year. He is done.

The Seahawk game? Does this mean BA is a genius, our OL is awesome and Gay should get a raise for his shut down play because we spanked the Seahawks?

It's time for the Smith fans to come to grips with his age. He hasn't been healthy or effective for years. His body isn't what it used to be and the rushing defense is proof. We have NEVER been run on like we have been this season so far. No excuses.

fezziwig
09-26-2011, 12:31 PM
Smith got shoved around like a rag doll. Casey was getting cut down by legal chop blocks.

LouSteel
09-26-2011, 12:32 PM
I'm going to wait a bit before putting Smith out to pasture, he's been too good for too long & a loyal soldier to boot to simply dismiss him. And while it's easy to point out that on the few plays where he was highlighted during the telecast that Smith was pushed around, how do we know what his assignment was on the plays? Now I'm not saying he's doing well, but I won't say he's done either. After all...wasn't he playing when they shut out the Seahawks just last week?

I doubt any DL assignment is "get blown back five yards at the snap."

I love Smith but he's been a complete non factor. It's time to stop being sentimental about the past and give the young bucks a chance to start.

flippy
09-26-2011, 02:06 PM
He did nothing but get pushed around versus the Seahawks. We couldn't get pressure against them either. Not even a push.

Baltimore, Seattle, and Indy have a lot of new faces and young players and their lines aren't playing at as high a level as we've made them appear.

Doogie36
09-26-2011, 02:33 PM
and yet we won the game. WOW. I would of never guessed it after reading these posts today! LOL

Unreal how perfect we always want our team to be.

We were on the ROAD against an 0-2 team on National Television. We came out WINNERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you win all 8 of your home games and half of your Road games you will be 12-4 and possibly on your way to a first round bye. We are 1-0 at home and 1-1 on the road. We are on our way guys!!! RELAX!!!!!!!

Every year the media CROWNS PHILLIP RIVERS as the best thing since slice bread because he puts up fantasy numbers. Do those PRETTY NUMBERS = WINS??? NO! We are the Steelers and we play backyard football where style points dont matter as long as we win.................WE WON!!!!!!!!!!

Why i come on here after losses is beyond me.............Oh wait we didnt LOSE! LOL

Lets all calm down! I'll take any ROAD WIN!!!!

steelblood
09-26-2011, 02:49 PM
McClendon and Heyward should get more reps in the nickel. They could really help our pass rush.

fezziwig
09-26-2011, 04:21 PM
Good teams or Super Bowl contenders do not not live on the edge like the Steelers have at times.
Had Manning been the quarterback, no way we win that game.
No one is unhappy that we won but, it doesn't excuse that this team has problems.

hawaiiansteel
09-26-2011, 04:26 PM
No one is unhappy that we won but, it doesn't excuse that this team has problems.

:Agree

Joseph Addai averaged 5.1 yards on 17 carries against us, the 2nd time in 3 games we've been gouged by a RB.

we may be 2-1, but that is definitely a problem...

Shoe
09-26-2011, 04:34 PM
and yet we won the game. WOW. I would of never guessed it after reading these posts today! LOL

Unreal how perfect we always want our team to be.

We were on the ROAD against an 0-2 team on National Television. We came out WINNERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you win all 8 of your home games and half of your Road games you will be 12-4 and possibly on your way to a first round bye. We are 1-0 at home and 1-1 on the road. We are on our way guys!!! RELAX!!!!!!!

Every year the media CROWNS PHILLIP RIVERS as the best thing since slice bread because he puts up fantasy numbers. Do those PRETTY NUMBERS = WINS??? NO! We are the Steelers and we play backyard football where style points dont matter as long as we win.................WE WON!!!!!!!!!!

Why i come on here after losses is beyond me.............Oh wait we didnt LOSE! LOL

Lets all calm down! I'll take any ROAD WIN!!!!

Doogie,
Just because you win, you shouldn't ignore obvious and not so obvious concerns. That seems to be what you are saying.

Starlifter
09-26-2011, 04:41 PM
nobody is taking ANY win for granted - but if the quality of play in some areas doesn't cause concern - then I don't know what game folks were watching.

speaking of farrior. the problem with players aging is that they rarely lose all their skills at once. they can probably play 95% of the game at a high level. The danger however is when will that 5% dropoff appear? will it be on a critical 4th down? will it be in the playoffs? anyone think o-coordinators aren't dialing up some new plays to take advantage?

He's a solid smart veteran and I expect he will continue to perform at a high level. i think it will be a battle to see which wins out. His savvy as a veteran to keep making plays - or the opponents scheme to take advantage?

NorthCoast
09-26-2011, 07:53 PM
What we don't know is if the Steelers asked Smith to come back for just this season in order to help with the transition to young players. A recipe for disaster is to just throw young guys out there before they know what they are doing. Mistakes build on mistakes and pretty soon you have a run-away losing freight train. Everyone knows that trying to maintain a competitive team in a transition can be a tricky thing. And, of course, it is way harder to change a perennial loser into a winner. All of this may be a planned transition to the younger players, just maybe not on the schedule many of us want. The organization has been good at it way longer than most of us, so I got to believe there is some kind of plan for the transition.

fezziwig
09-27-2011, 01:51 PM
I hear that stuff about not, throwing young guys into the fire by getting rid of the old players. Having said that, Aaron Smith is still on the team and if that is the case, not tossing young guys in without a veteran then, why not allow them to play well Smith is still on the team/sidelines ?

It also comes down to these young guys should be learning at practice and their coaches will be there on the sidelines to help groom them. Keeping an old guy around that can't get the job done just for the sake of leadership or training purposes is wrong.

Aaron is one of my all time favorite Steelers but it's time the coaches allow a number one pick to do his job.

Doogie36
09-28-2011, 11:38 AM
I just think every team has problems or issues. Look at baseball! Red Sox vs TB for the wild card. ALl those games and it all comes down to how they finish the year!!!!

Football is the same way! We started last year sloppy and we improved and found ourselvs and got to the big game! A hurt Troy, James, and Pouncey really hurt us in that big game but it's football and that happens.

The year we won the superbowl as the 6th seed. Were we that good that year? REALLY??? we had issues and we complained and complained. The year we won it against Arizona we had REDZONE issues all year and we bashed BA all year. We won the Superbowl.

Every team in this league has ISSUES!!! I think this board focus's so much on the bad and it drives me NUTS and come the end of the year once again our team spoils us with a playoff game or 2 and the occassional SuperBowl. I feel the complainers really let the season get by them and they feel pretty silly at the end of the year!

I get pointing out issues but i would rather see them in a week we LOSE a game! It was a ROAD game and we came away with a W! Lots of praise to go around! What is complaining as fans going to do for this team? I let me kids stay up past their bed time Sunday night and all of us were jumping up and down with a victory. We didnt sit there and say DAMN our OLINE is horrible!!! We shoudl of lost!!!! Aaron Smith is OLD he needs to go!!! Farrior is getting old he needs to go!!! Damn you Troy for guessing wrong!!! LOL I mean really!!!!!

I love our team and i love the guys we have on the FIELD PERIOD. I felt bad for Gilbert and my kids did tooo!!! The guy is a ROOKIE and he tried his butt off!! Since when do we start rookies anyway? It was a tall order and he gave it his all!

The only question we had was #82! My kids and I all said who the heck is that guy? LOL

We all cheer for the ROCKY MOVIES dont we??? ROCKY ROCKY!!! Why? because he's an underdog!!! I'll cheer for our OLD and YOUNG underdogs all day long!!!!

If we can escape Houston with another ROAD win we are in good shape!

TOM BRADY threw 4 INTS this past week! Do you think the Patriots want him gone tooo or are complaing??? THEY LOST THE GAME!!!! WE WON!!!!!!!!

Keep it real guys!!! Lets vow to complain and pick apart our team in LOSSES! I only see 3 more weeks of complaining in our future.

If you dont like our team you can always cheer for the many other PERFECT teams in the league!!! They said on ESPN with the way the Cap is teams are forced to keep players that normally would be CUT after a bad game. Case in point the Cowboy WR on Monday Night! they said he would be CUT but because of the CAP teams can't afford to do that anymore! It's an issue all teams face this year! ours is no exception. Our teams spends every penny! we have nothing to complain about being a STEELER FAN! WE are SPOILED ROTTEN!!!!!

feltdizz
09-28-2011, 11:45 AM
TOM BRADY threw 4 INTS this past week! Do you think the Patriots want him gone tooo or are complaing???

Any QB who throws 4 INT's will hear complaints.

papillon
09-28-2011, 11:49 AM
What we don't know is if the Steelers asked Smith to come back for just this season in order to help with the transition to young players. A recipe for disaster is to just throw young guys out there before they know what they are doing. Mistakes build on mistakes and pretty soon you have a run-away losing freight train. Everyone knows that trying to maintain a competitive team in a transition can be a tricky thing. And, of course, it is way harder to change a perennial loser into a winner. All of this may be a planned transition to the younger players, just maybe not on the schedule many of us want. The organization has been good at it way longer than most of us, so I got to believe there is some kind of plan for the transition.

Hood may be a young player, but he should have a firm grasp of the defensive scheme by now, I would think. Smith is getting moved wherever the offensive linemen want to move him. I don't see how that helps even if he knows the system. If they believe Aaron still has gas in the tank they need to ease him back into playing.

Pappy

RuthlessBurgher
09-28-2011, 12:30 PM
The only question we had was #82! My kids and I all said who the heck is that guy?

A really buff version of Antwaan Randle El. :wink:

Seriously, though, that was 3rd string TE Weslye Saunders (an UDFA rookie from S. Carolina).

Doogie36
09-28-2011, 12:53 PM
3rd down and Ben throws a perfect ball to #82 and we all were like who the heck is that??? LOL I'm still gonna call him #82 until he actually makes a play.

Wait is that me complaining about something? LOL

my bad!
:-)

feltdizz
09-28-2011, 12:55 PM
What we don't know is if the Steelers asked Smith to come back for just this season in order to help with the transition to young players. A recipe for disaster is to just throw young guys out there before they know what they are doing. Mistakes build on mistakes and pretty soon you have a run-away losing freight train. Everyone knows that trying to maintain a competitive team in a transition can be a tricky thing. And, of course, it is way harder to change a perennial loser into a winner. All of this may be a planned transition to the younger players, just maybe not on the schedule many of us want. The organization has been good at it way longer than most of us, so I got to believe there is some kind of plan for the transition.

Hood may be a young player, but he should have a firm grasp of the defensive scheme by now, I would think. Smith is getting moved wherever the offensive linemen want to move him. I don't see how that helps even if he knows the system. If they believe Aaron still has gas in the tank they need to ease him back into playing.

Pappy

Aaron Smith is a vet who deserves to go out on his own terms. :stirpot

RuthlessBurgher
09-28-2011, 01:12 PM
3rd down and Ben throws a perfect ball to #82 and we all were like who the heck is that??? LOL I'm still gonna call him #82 until he actually makes a play.

Wait is that me complaining about something? LOL

my bad!
:-)

The ball konked Weslye right in the face (but at least he still caught the rebound rather than it turning into a disastrous red zone INT or something like that).