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Djfan
09-25-2011, 11:38 PM
Is slipping.

We don't show good fundamentals. Our play calling is odd. Maybe some style points would be good once in a while.

insanesteelersfan
09-25-2011, 11:39 PM
Is slipping.

We don't show good fundamentals. Our play calling is odd. Maybe some style points would be good once in a while.




All I know is IF Ben praises his O-Line after this game, I'm gonna hunt him down and take him out :D

Djfan
09-25-2011, 11:40 PM
Is slipping.

We don't show good fundamentals. Our play calling is odd. Maybe some style points would be good once in a while.




All I know is IF Ben praises his O-Line after this game, I'm gonna hunt him down and take him out :D

Just don't take him out to a Georgia bar.

D Rock
09-25-2011, 11:40 PM
the team's focus is just way off in too many key situations. Isn't that what everyone hypes as a Tomlin specialty...having the team focused and ready?

BURGH86STEEL
09-25-2011, 11:44 PM
the team's focus is just way off in too many key situations. Isn't that what everyone hypes as a Tomlin specialty...having the team focused and ready?

I think they came up big in a few key situations tonight. The turnovers are what's killing the team more then anything else. They need to stop giving the ball away. They were fortunate to win the game tonight losing the turnover battle.

MaxAMillion
09-25-2011, 11:48 PM
Is slipping.

We don't show good fundamentals. Our play calling is odd. Maybe some style points would be good once in a while.

I hope your grip on the Colbert train is also slipping. This is the worst OL in the NFL that the Steelers have and that is because of Colbert.

hawaiiansteel
09-25-2011, 11:50 PM
Is slipping.

We don't show good fundamentals. Our play calling is odd. Maybe some style points would be good once in a while.




All I know is IF Ben praises his O-Line after this game, I'm gonna hunt him down and take him out :D

Just don't take him out to a Georgia bar.

:D :D

D Rock
09-25-2011, 11:50 PM
the team's focus is just way off in too many key situations. Isn't that what everyone hypes as a Tomlin specialty...having the team focused and ready?

I think they came up big in a few key situations tonight. The turnovers are what's killing the team more then anything else. They need to stop giving the ball away. They were fortunate to win the game tonight losing the turnover battle.

some examples of what I meant...

-Sanders jumping over a guy who just made an interception

-Jon Scott starting to run towards a loose football, then slowing up and deciding he wants nothing to do with stopping the guy who is about to pick it up. AFTER HE CAUSED THE FUMBLE!

Snatch98
09-25-2011, 11:55 PM
Is slipping.

We don't show good fundamentals. Our play calling is odd. Maybe some style points would be good once in a while.

I hope your grip on the Colbert train is also slipping. This is the worst OL in the NFL that the Steelers have and that is because of Colbert.

Pretty stupid comment. When we had a pick high enough to draft a lineman actually worth drafting in the first round we did with Pouncey. The Steelers don't reach and in my opinion aren't going to draft a first round lineman just for the sake of drafting a first round lineman. They go BPA and always have and we've never had picks high enough to warrant going o-line early. Most of the time the desirable lineman are off the board well before our selections. The problem is because of Ben we go further than we probably should with that offensive line. If you put Brady behind that line in our system he's on his ass ALL THE TIME. It's a double edged sword. I'd guess we'll be calling Flozell.

papillon
09-25-2011, 11:57 PM
Is slipping.

We don't show good fundamentals. Our play calling is odd. Maybe some style points would be good once in a while.




All I know is IF Ben praises his O-Line after this game, I'm gonna hunt him down and take him out :D

Well, you better get your hunting gear on, he did an on the field interview and praised the O-line for hangin in there and doing a good job.

Pappy

MaxAMillion
09-26-2011, 12:05 AM
Is slipping.

We don't show good fundamentals. Our play calling is odd. Maybe some style points would be good once in a while.

I hope your grip on the Colbert train is also slipping. This is the worst OL in the NFL that the Steelers have and that is because of Colbert.

Pretty stupid comment. When we had a pick high enough to draft a lineman actually worth drafting in the first round we did with Pouncey. The Steelers don't reach and in my opinion aren't going to draft a first round lineman just for the sake of drafting a first round lineman. They go BPA and always have and we've never had picks high enough to warrant going o-line early. Most of the time the desirable lineman are off the board well before our selections. The problem is because of Ben we go further than we probably should with that offensive line. If you put Brady behind that line in our system he's on his bad word ALL THE TIME. It's a double edged sword. I'd guess we'll be calling Flozell.

There is nothing dumb about it. The OL has not been a priority for Colbert since he got here. The Steelers could always move up in the draft to get an OL. Colbert has had no problems doing it before. He could have also put money aside this offseason for OL by cutting guys. Again, he treats the OL differently than every other team in the league.
Look how the Pats are able to sign Waters when he gets cut by the Chiefs. The Pats won't allow their franchise QB to play behind a crap OL.



The Steelers’ went through seven consecutive drafts (2003-09) without taking an offensive lineman in the first two rounds, the longest such streak by any franchise this century. Even worse, they went an entire decade (2001-2010) without drafting an offensive tackle prospect in the first two rounds, even though teams now have to draft tackles earlier than desired due to the emphasis placed on that position by seemingly every franchise but the Steelers.

DukieBoy
09-26-2011, 12:07 AM
[quote="D Rock":29c1ixkp]the team's focus is just way off in too many key situations. Isn't that what everyone hypes as a Tomlin specialty...having the team focused and ready?

I think they came up big in a few key situations tonight. The turnovers are what's killing the team more then anything else. They need to stop giving the ball away. They were fortunate to win the game tonight losing the turnover battle.

some examples of what I meant...

-Sanders jumping over a guy who just made an interception

-Jon Scott starting to run towards a loose football, then slowing up and deciding he wants nothing to do with stopping the guy who is about to pick it up. AFTER HE CAUSED THE FUMBLE![/quote:29c1ixkp]

It's the little things, so many of them that they are missing, that are screwing it up, and peeving us off. Among other bigger things. But they should not be missing so many of the little things, like touching down the guy after an INT, like getting your head turned to look for the pass when you see 8 in the box going after Ben ...

Steel Life
09-26-2011, 12:10 AM
Is slipping.

We don't show good fundamentals. Our play calling is odd. Maybe some style points would be good once in a while.

I hope your grip on the Colbert train is also slipping. This is the worst OL in the NFL that the Steelers have and that is because of Colbert.

Pretty stupid comment. When we had a pick high enough to draft a lineman actually worth drafting in the first round we did with Pouncey. The Steelers don't reach and in my opinion aren't going to draft a first round lineman just for the sake of drafting a first round lineman. They go BPA and always have and we've never had picks high enough to warrant going o-line early. Most of the time the desirable lineman are off the board well before our selections. The problem is because of Ben we go further than we probably should with that offensive line. If you put Brady behind that line in our system he's on his bad word ALL THE TIME. It's a double edged sword. I'd guess we'll be calling Flozell.
What's so stupid about it? While the Pats are picking up Waters & the Ravens pick up McKinnie & Gurode, Colbert does NOTHING. Oh he'll probably pick up the phone now & hope Flozell or Max are in shape, but the point is & has been that Colbert continues to scout the OL poorly & doubles down by continuing to not address it. I understand injuries are a variable that you can't account for, but this line was bad before then. Why the GM continues to risk the careers of Ben & Mendy behind a bunch stiffs is beyond me. I admire the fact that Ben has got their back, but this has gotten out of control.

steelsnis
09-26-2011, 07:53 AM
We can complain about the little things all we want, but this game comes down to the turnovers at the end of the first half.

The first Ben sack/fumble (which is all on him) gave the Colts confidence after being beaten soundly throughout the first quarter. The second Ben sack/fumble (which was all on Scott) gave the Colts even MORE confidence and tied the game.

The third turnover (Ben's Int) was just a terrible ball that should not have been thrown.

All of the "little things" wouldn't have meant squat if we took better care of the ball at the end of the first half and let Indy think they had a chance to win.

You have to put teams away when you have the chance (driving past midfield up 10-nothing late in the second quarter). Especially in a prime time game on the road, you just can't let it happen.

D Rock
09-26-2011, 08:42 AM
Let's add another mistake in focus to this one...this time on Tomlin himself.


In his press conference, they asked why he left 8 seconds on the clock for the field goal. His answer was that in case they messed up the snap, they could try it again.


HEY COACH, YOU NEED TO HAVE A TIMEOUT LEFT TO DO THAT!

How is it that coaches mess up time out situations so much when everyone sitting at home knows what's going on. Just look at the darn scoreboard before making your decisions.

Djfan
09-26-2011, 08:46 AM
We can complain about the little things all we want, but this game comes down to the turnovers at the end of the first half.

The first Ben sack/fumble (which is all on him) gave the Colts confidence after being beaten soundly throughout the first quarter. The second Ben sack/fumble (which was all on Scott) gave the Colts even MORE confidence and tied the game.

The third turnover (Ben's Int) was just a terrible ball that should not have been thrown.

All of the "little things" wouldn't have meant squat if we took better care of the ball at the end of the first half and let Indy think they had a chance to win.

You have to put teams away when you have the chance (driving past midfield up 10-nothing late in the second quarter). Especially in a prime time game on the road, you just can't let it happen.

Taking care of the ball is one of the "little things" that I am referring to. It seems that there are these basics are not solid. You see it in other teams much more IMO. Getting on blocks, turning at the right time to look, etc.

We just seem sloppy.

Mister Pittsburgh
09-26-2011, 09:13 AM
Is slipping.

We don't show good fundamentals. Our play calling is odd. Maybe some style points would be good once in a while.

I hope your grip on the Colbert train is also slipping. This is the worst OL in the NFL that the Steelers have and that is because of Colbert.

Pretty stupid comment. When we had a pick high enough to draft a lineman actually worth drafting in the first round we did with Pouncey. The Steelers don't reach and in my opinion aren't going to draft a first round lineman just for the sake of drafting a first round lineman. They go BPA and always have and we've never had picks high enough to warrant going o-line early. Most of the time the desirable lineman are off the board well before our selections. The problem is because of Ben we go further than we probably should with that offensive line. If you put Brady behind that line in our system he's on his bad word ALL THE TIME. It's a double edged sword. I'd guess we'll be calling Flozell.

Your comment is rather stupid as well. There are a lot of linemen starting for the top offenses in this league, very good linemen, pro bowl linemen, drafted well beyond the first round.

Saints LT 4th round pick
Saints LG 5th round pick
Saints C 3rd round pick
Saints RG 4th round pick
Saints RT 7th round pick

Packers LT 2nd round pick
Packers LG 4th round pick
Packers C 7th round comp pick
Packers RG 4th round comp pick
Packers RT 1st round pick

Colbert/ The Steelers suck at drafting OL and DB's, our two weakest areas.

steelblood
09-26-2011, 09:26 AM
We need a head coach or coordinator who is good at in game adjustments. We don't have any. I like Tomlin very much. But, he is always in the moment and never thinking two steps ahead. Coaches like McCarthy, Belichick, and Payton are always thinking ahead. Sometimes they out-think themselves. But, they are always searching for an advantage. I think Tomlin helps set the game plan and coaches up what he sees during the game. But, I don't think he is a chess man.

LouSteel
09-26-2011, 12:13 PM
Your comment is rather stupid as well. There are a lot of linemen starting for the top offenses in this league, very good linemen, pro bowl linemen, drafted well beyond the first round.

Saints LT 4th round pick
Saints LG 5th round pick
Saints C 3rd round pick
Saints RG 4th round pick
Saints RT 7th round pick

Packers LT 2nd round pick
Packers LG 4th round pick
Packers C 7th round comp pick
Packers RG 4th round comp pick
Packers RT 1st round pick


Rogers & Brees are two of the best QBs at delivering the quick strike. It's easier to block for a QB that makes quick reads & checkdowns than it is to block for a QB that looks to move around in the pocket and extend the play.

Now I definitely agree - you don't have to go first round to get good players. But the problem doesn't seem to be when we're drafting our OL. We are either drafting the wrong players, or not coaching them to their full potential.

This is a problem that starts in the FO. We've got to put an emphasis on the OL. I don't know if that means moving up in the draft, looking for FA help, or what. But we've been saying for years that this line is going to get BB killed, and haven't seen any improvements.

RuthlessBurgher
09-26-2011, 12:33 PM
Is slipping.

We don't show good fundamentals. Our play calling is odd. Maybe some style points would be good once in a while.

I hope your grip on the Colbert train is also slipping. This is the worst OL in the NFL that the Steelers have and that is because of Colbert.

Which of our top picks (unlike most teams that regularly botch their first selection by taking mammoth busts, Colbert has been remarkably consistent here) would you be willing to give back in order to take an OL in his place, and which OL would you have taken instead? Would you give up Lawrence Timmons for Joe Staley? I wouldn't. How about giving up Rashard Mendenhall for Duane Brown? I wouldn't do that either. You have the benefit of complete 20/20 hindsight. Build me the o-line you want, and tell me which players on our roster would have to be subtracted to make it happen.

snarky
09-26-2011, 12:56 PM
We need a head coach or coordinator who is good at in game adjustments. We don't have any. I like Tomlin very much. But, he is always in the moment and never thinking two steps ahead. Coaches like McCarthy, Belichick, and Payton are always thinking ahead. Sometimes they out-think themselves. But, they are always searching for an advantage. I think Tomlin helps set the game plan and coaches up what he sees during the game. But, I don't think he is a chess man.

I agree with this completely, especially the last bit. I think he is a great motivator. But the notion that 'the standard is the standard' will only take you so far. You can't get blood from a stone. I would say he is an outstanding motivator with some room for improvement in terms of strategic/tactical thinking.

LouSteel
09-26-2011, 12:59 PM
I agree with this completely, especially the last bit. I think he is a great motivator. But the notion that 'the standard is the standard' will only take you so far. You can't get blood from a stone. I would say he is an outstanding motivator with some room for improvement in terms of strategic/tactical thinking.

We've got a DC that can scheme. We've got a HC that can motivate. What does our OC do, again?

Snatch98
09-26-2011, 01:01 PM
Is slipping.

We don't show good fundamentals. Our play calling is odd. Maybe some style points would be good once in a while.

I hope your grip on the Colbert train is also slipping. This is the worst OL in the NFL that the Steelers have and that is because of Colbert.

Which of our top picks (unlike most teams that regularly botch their first selection by taking mammoth busts, Colbert has been remarkably consistent here) would you be willing to give back in order to take an OL in his place, and which OL would you have taken instead? Would you give up Lawrence Timmons for Joe Staley? I wouldn't. How about giving up Rashard Mendenhall for Duane Brown? I wouldn't do that either. You have the benefit of complete 20/20 hindsight. Build me the o-line you want, and tell me which players on our roster would have to be subtracted to make it happen.

I knew that when I saw that you posted in here we'd be on the same page. Hindsight is absolutely 20/20 and that sort of "insight" runs rampant around here on certain issues. The comment I made previously still 100% stands and it stands because of what you mention above.

As for everyone else I at no point suggest a solid offensive lineman can't be found outside the first round. The verdict is still out on Gilbert. In my opinion he's been solid and looks to develop in to a player we desperately need. Sooooooo going back to what Ruthless mentions above what players are we trading for a top tier lineman? If Colbert is such a travesty then why are guys like Mike Wallace, Antionio Brown and Manny Sanders on the team. We've hit on a good number of later round selections, they just haven't been o lineman. They resigned Willie Colon and he's hurt again. I know for a fact there were several threads leading in to the season this year where people were pleased with the offensive line outside of Scott. Colon goes down and the landscape changes.

I guess the biggest problem is we've gone to two super bowls with patch work offensive lines. It probably shouldn't allow the front office to "ignore the position" but I don't necessarily believe they have been. Once again the verdict is still out on Gilbert and I'm not for passing on a impact player in a later round to take a shot at a maybe on the offensive line. Additionally and as mentioned above you can't compare lineman behind Brees and Brady to lineman blocking for Ben. Ben intentionally extends plays and takes sacks he probably shouldn't. He's the man but he makes the line look worse than it really is on occasion. (I'm not saying the line is great)

snarky
09-26-2011, 01:09 PM
I agree with this completely, especially the last bit. I think he is a great motivator. But the notion that 'the standard is the standard' will only take you so far. You can't get blood from a stone. I would say he is an outstanding motivator with some room for improvement in terms of strategic/tactical thinking.

We've got a DC that can scheme. We've got a HC that can motivate. What does our OC do, again?

Why ask me the same question in two threads?

LouSteel
09-26-2011, 01:22 PM
I agree with this completely, especially the last bit. I think he is a great motivator. But the notion that 'the standard is the standard' will only take you so far. You can't get blood from a stone. I would say he is an outstanding motivator with some room for improvement in terms of strategic/tactical thinking.

We've got a DC that can scheme. We've got a HC that can motivate. What does our OC do, again?

Why ask me the same question in two threads?

In that thread we're talking about firing BA. In this thread we're talking about the strengths and weaknesses of our coaching staff :lol:

But you didn't really answer the question in the other thread either. What does he do well? Is he really the best answer for this team?

snarky
09-26-2011, 01:33 PM
I agree with this completely, especially the last bit. I think he is a great motivator. But the notion that 'the standard is the standard' will only take you so far. You can't get blood from a stone. I would say he is an outstanding motivator with some room for improvement in terms of strategic/tactical thinking.

We've got a DC that can scheme. We've got a HC that can motivate. What does our OC do, again?

Why ask me the same question in two threads?

In that thread we're talking about firing BA. In this thread we're talking about the strengths and weaknesses of our coaching staff :lol:

But you didn't really answer the question in the other thread either. What does he do well? Is he really the best answer for this team?

No, I don't think he is the best answer for this team. I would assume he does everything that OCs do on other teams. Just not as well as most. The point I was trying to make is that we have gone to a few SBs with some very poor OLs so I think you would have to concede that he has some strengths or things that he does moderately well. And I think if you are breaking down his strengths and weaknesses, he stronger point is probably making use of the personnel that he has. Chief among his weaknesses would be that he is too predictable and that he hasn't really shown a great ability to adjust in-game.

Quite frankly I think that is a problem across the board with our coaching staff. I don't think any of the 'big 3' has shown a great ability to adjust in-game. Tomlin and LeBeau have some positives that make them the right/best answer. Arians has been OK through the years (definitely not great IMO), but I think we could do better.

Mister Pittsburgh
09-26-2011, 01:33 PM
Really?

As for everyone else I at no point suggest a solid offensive lineman can't be found outside the first round.

They go BPA and always have and we've never had picks high enough to warrant going o-line early. Most of the time the desirable lineman are off the board well before our selections.

Am I reading this wrong? The desirable linemen are off the board well before our selections......

I agree that Colbert hasn't done a good job of drafting certain positions. Offensive linemen and DB's in particular.

Snatch98
09-26-2011, 01:41 PM
Really?

As for everyone else I at no point suggest a solid offensive lineman can't be found outside the first round.

They go BPA and always have and we've never had picks high enough to warrant going o-line early. Most of the time the desirable lineman are off the board well before our selections.

Am I reading this wrong? The desirable linemen are off the board well before our selections......

I agree that Colbert hasn't done a good job of drafting certain positions. Offensive linemen and DB's in particular.

No you aren't reading it wrong because the lineman worth drafting are usually selected before our picks in most rounds. Why should the team reach for a o-lineman just for the sake of drafting a o-lineman? I didn't say they can't be found but what i did say is the team isn't going to reach. Sure some of those guys that go later have panned out but as already mentioned play with QB's that employ a entirely different style. The Steelers like most teams stick to their draft boards I'm sure. We hit the mark with Pouncey in round 1 and I believe we've hit the mark with Gilbert in round 2 of our last draft. The question has been posed above. If you're so certain we're missing on all these lineman gems go through our current roster and switch out players. We'll see how it's received by the board.

phillyesq
09-26-2011, 02:01 PM
Is slipping.

We don't show good fundamentals. Our play calling is odd. Maybe some style points would be good once in a while.

I hope your grip on the Colbert train is also slipping. This is the worst OL in the NFL that the Steelers have and that is because of Colbert.

Which of our top picks (unlike most teams that regularly botch their first selection by taking mammoth busts, Colbert has been remarkably consistent here) would you be willing to give back in order to take an OL in his place, and which OL would you have taken instead? Would you give up Lawrence Timmons for Joe Staley? I wouldn't. How about giving up Rashard Mendenhall for Duane Brown? I wouldn't do that either. You have the benefit of complete 20/20 hindsight. Build me the o-line you want, and tell me which players on our roster would have to be subtracted to make it happen.

:Agree

The Steelers have eyed up tackles in the past few drafts, but the draft just hasn't fallen right for them. In the Timmons year, Joe Staley was the only OT available where the Steelers were drafting, and he would have been a reach.

In the Mendenhall year, there was a huge run on OTs. All of the first round rated OTs were gone by the time the Steelers were on the clock. Duane Brown was a reach by the Texans. Sure, the Steelers could have traded up for Gosder Cherilus, who has been awful this year, but the OTs were overvalued.

In the 2009 draft, the next offensive lineman taken after Ziggy was Eben Britton, followed by Andy Levitre. I'll take Ziggy over those two, no contest.

In 2010, the Steelers took Pouncey. I can see an argument for taking another OL in the second instead of Worilds, but the Steelers at that time had no depth at OLB, and Worilds was well regarded (and still has potential).

This year, Sherrod was the lineman taken just after Cam Heyward. He's hasn't looked good thus far. After that, nobody was taken until the mid second round, where the Colts and Broncos, two teams with their own line issues, took guys, neither of whom are playing now.

The Steelers haven't been in a good position in the draft recently to target the premium talent they need on the OL.

Mister Pittsburgh
09-26-2011, 02:01 PM
Really?

As for everyone else I at no point suggest a solid offensive lineman can't be found outside the first round.

They go BPA and always have and we've never had picks high enough to warrant going o-line early. Most of the time the desirable lineman are off the board well before our selections.

Am I reading this wrong? The desirable linemen are off the board well before our selections......

I agree that Colbert hasn't done a good job of drafting certain positions. Offensive linemen and DB's in particular.

No you aren't reading it wrong because the lineman worth drafting are usually selected before our picks in most rounds. Why should the team reach for a o-lineman just for the sake of drafting a o-lineman? I didn't say they can't be found but what i did say is the team isn't going to reach. Sure some of those guys that go later have panned out but as already mentioned play with QB's that employ a entirely different style. The Steelers like most teams stick to their draft boards I'm sure. We hit the mark with Pouncey in round 1 and I believe we've hit the mark with Gilbert in round 2 of our last draft. The question has been posed above. If you're so certain we're missing on all these lineman gems go through our current roster and switch out players. We'll see how it's received by the board.

It's pretty obvious they have missed on quite a few linemen they have taken, and passed on others they shouldn't have. Nature of the beast. It's up to Colbert to decide what would be a 'reach' and what wouldn't be a 'reach'.

Obviously I would replace all the Alonzo Jackson, Omar Jacobs, Goo Wallaces with linemen that have panned out. I will save myself the time of going through that ridiculous task though. It isn't my job to identify and draft offensive linemen.

Also, the Steelers do deviate from their draft board. If they didn't, Sean Lee would be a Steeler and Jason Worilds would not.

Snatch98
09-26-2011, 02:27 PM
[quote="Mister Pittsburgh":3io5uzjl]Really?

As for everyone else I at no point suggest a solid offensive lineman can't be found outside the first round.

They go BPA and always have and we've never had picks high enough to warrant going o-line early. Most of the time the desirable lineman are off the board well before our selections.

Am I reading this wrong? The desirable linemen are off the board well before our selections......

I agree that Colbert hasn't done a good job of drafting certain positions. Offensive linemen and DB's in particular.

No you aren't reading it wrong because the lineman worth drafting are usually selected before our picks in most rounds. Why should the team reach for a o-lineman just for the sake of drafting a o-lineman? I didn't say they can't be found but what i did say is the team isn't going to reach. Sure some of those guys that go later have panned out but as already mentioned play with QB's that employ a entirely different style. The Steelers like most teams stick to their draft boards I'm sure. We hit the mark with Pouncey in round 1 and I believe we've hit the mark with Gilbert in round 2 of our last draft. The question has been posed above. If you're so certain we're missing on all these lineman gems go through our current roster and switch out players. We'll see how it's received by the board.

It's pretty obvious they have missed on quite a few linemen they have taken, and passed on others they shouldn't have. Nature of the beast. It's up to Colbert to decide what would be a 'reach' and what wouldn't be a 'reach'.

Obviously I would replace all the Alonzo Jackson, Omar Jacobs, Goo Wallaces with linemen that have panned out. I will save myself the time of going through that ridiculous task though. It isn't my job to identify and draft offensive linemen.

Also, the Steelers do deviate from their draft board. If they didn't, Sean Lee would be a Steeler and Jason Worilds would not.[/quote:3io5uzjl]

I believe the point was to pull guys from the current roster and replace them with lineman that could have been drafted instead. You'd then evaluate the roster and determine which team "roster" possessed more strength. Philly broke down my point in greater detail above and his thought process holds water. Yours does not.

NWNewell
09-26-2011, 02:45 PM
Is slipping.

We don't show good fundamentals. Our play calling is odd. Maybe some style points would be good once in a while.

I hope your grip on the Colbert train is also slipping. This is the worst OL in the NFL that the Steelers have and that is because of Colbert.

Which of our top picks (unlike most teams that regularly botch their first selection by taking mammoth busts, Colbert has been remarkably consistent here) would you be willing to give back in order to take an OL in his place, and which OL would you have taken instead? Would you give up Lawrence Timmons for Joe Staley? I wouldn't. How about giving up Rashard Mendenhall for Duane Brown? I wouldn't do that either. You have the benefit of complete 20/20 hindsight. Build me the o-line you want, and tell me which players on our roster would have to be subtracted to make it happen.

How dare you, sir. How dare you try to interject some logic and reality to this discussion. :nono

Now... back to the witch hunt, boys! :Beer

LouSteel
09-26-2011, 02:52 PM
I believe the point was to pull guys from the current roster and replace them with lineman that could have been drafted instead. You'd then evaluate the roster and determine which team "roster" possessed more strength. Philly broke down my point in greater detail above and his thought process holds water. Yours does not.

I think asking "should we have picked player X rather than player Y" isn't the right question. If we were all drafting with 20-20 hindsight we'd hit the Super Bowl every year.

What interests me: why is this team's OL has been consistently bad? Is it the players and a lack of execution? Coaching? Poor drafting? It might be one, it might be the other, but it's gotta be something.

IMO, if the talent just flat isn't there when we are drafting, we've got to try and move up, or we've got to open our pocketbook in FA. We're banging our heads against the wall over and over and expecting something different to happen.

feltdizz
09-26-2011, 03:06 PM
Really?

As for everyone else I at no point suggest a solid offensive lineman can't be found outside the first round.

They go BPA and always have and we've never had picks high enough to warrant going o-line early. Most of the time the desirable lineman are off the board well before our selections.

Am I reading this wrong? The desirable linemen are off the board well before our selections......

I agree that Colbert hasn't done a good job of drafting certain positions. Offensive linemen and DB's in particular.

No you aren't reading it wrong because the lineman worth drafting are usually selected before our picks in most rounds. Why should the team reach for a o-lineman just for the sake of drafting a o-lineman? I didn't say they can't be found but what i did say is the team isn't going to reach. Sure some of those guys that go later have panned out but as already mentioned play with QB's that employ a entirely different style. The Steelers like most teams stick to their draft boards I'm sure. We hit the mark with Pouncey in round 1 and I believe we've hit the mark with Gilbert in round 2 of our last draft. The question has been posed above. If you're so certain we're missing on all these lineman gems go through our current roster and switch out players. We'll see how it's received by the board.

If we are passing up lineman in the 4th round that end up looking 5 times better than our picks in the 5th and 6th then we are missing in our drafts.

Hell, look at our OL and outside of Pouncey I think it's obvious we have been missing lineman in the draft.

Good lineman aren't all first rounders. We haven't made it a priority for a while and we are paying the price. We need to draft better lineman or get better line coaching because they stink.

NJ-STEELER
09-26-2011, 06:22 PM
Is slipping.

We don't show good fundamentals. Our play calling is odd. Maybe some style points would be good once in a while.

I hope your grip on the Colbert train is also slipping. This is the worst OL in the NFL that the Steelers have and that is because of Colbert.

Pretty stupid comment. When we had a pick high enough to draft a lineman actually worth drafting in the first round we did with Pouncey. The Steelers don't reach and in my opinion aren't going to draft a first round lineman just for the sake of drafting a first round lineman. They go BPA and always have and we've never had picks high enough to warrant going o-line early. Most of the time the desirable lineman are off the board well before our selections. The problem is because of Ben we go further than we probably should with that offensive line. If you put Brady behind that line in our system he's on his bad word ALL THE TIME. It's a double edged sword. I'd guess we'll be calling Flozell.

Your comment is rather stupid as well. There are a lot of linemen starting for the top offenses in this league, very good linemen, pro bowl linemen, drafted well beyond the first round.

Saints LT 4th round pick
Saints LG 5th round pick
Saints C 3rd round pick
Saints RG 4th round pick
Saints RT 7th round pick

Packers LT 2nd round pick
Packers LG 4th round pick
Packers C 7th round comp pick
Packers RG 4th round comp pick
Packers RT 1st round pick

Colbert/ The Steelers suck at drafting OL and DB's, our two weakest areas.

saints took a LT in the 1st round a few years ago but have replaced him (jamaal brown IIRC)

pack also too another #1 OT last year (back to back years)