Lee vs Worilds

[plainnasty]

Every time I see Sean Lee play it makes me wonder if we would have been better off drafting him instead of Worilds. I'm not calling Worilds a bust yet, but Lee looks like he will be a very good player.



That Worilds name was called by the Steelers was something of a surprise.

Penn State linebacker Sean Lee, who went to Upper St. Clair High School, appeared to be the player the Steelers were targeting in the second round after selecting Florida center Maurkice Pouncey with the 18th overall pick. They had a first-round grade on Lee and thought he fit the way they played better than any linebacker in the draft.

But, the Steelers did not think Lee would be available when it came their turn.

When he was, it seemed like an obvious choice. But coach Mike Tomlin really liked Worilds, an undersized defensive end in college who fit nicely as a disruptive outside linebacker in a 3-4 defense -- something the Steelers were lacking behind James Harrison and LaMarr Woodley.

What's more, the return of Larry Foote in free agency gave the Steelers four inside linebackers, along with James Farrior, Lawrence Timmons and Keyaron Fox. Even though Farrior is 35, the need for depth was more dire on the outside, not inside.

So they passed on Lee and selected Worilds.


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10120/10 ... z1XtKQLGCu (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10120/1054423-66.stm#ixzz1XtKQLGCu)

[hawaiiansteel]

Sean Lee had an All-Pro performance against the Jets:

12 tackles (11 on defense and one on special teams), one pass breakup, one interception that Lee ran back to the Jets 1-yard line and a fumble recovery in the fourth quarter that returned possession to Dallas following Tony Romo's goal-line fumble.

not a bad night's work...I think we very well may regret passing on Sean Lee because OLB was more of a position of need than ILB. I thought it wasn't the Steelers' draft philosophy to do that?

[steelblood]

Lee next to Timmons would be pretty, pretty-eeah good.

[Oviedo]

Every time I see Sean Lee play it makes me wonder if we would have been better off drafting him instead of Worilds. I'm not calling Worilds a bust yet, but Lee looks like he will be a very good player.



That Worilds name was called by the Steelers was something of a surprise.

Penn State linebacker Sean Lee, who went to Upper St. Clair High School, appeared to be the player the Steelers were targeting in the second round after selecting Florida center Maurkice Pouncey with the 18th overall pick. They had a first-round grade on Lee and thought he fit the way they played better than any linebacker in the draft.

But, the Steelers did not think Lee would be available when it came their turn.

When he was, it seemed like an obvious choice. But coach Mike Tomlin really liked Worilds, an undersized defensive end in college who fit nicely as a disruptive outside linebacker in a 3-4 defense -- something the Steelers were lacking behind James Harrison and LaMarr Woodley.

What's more, the return of Larry Foote in free agency gave the Steelers four inside linebackers, along with James Farrior, Lawrence Timmons and Keyaron Fox. Even though Farrior is 35, the need for depth was more dire on the outside, not inside.

So they passed on Lee and selected Worilds.


Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10120/10 ... z1XtKQLGCu (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/10120/1054423-66.stm#ixzz1XtKQLGCu)


The key to your observation is that you are SEEING Lee play!!!!

Lee, unlike Worilds, is not behind a Pro Bowler and former Defensive Player of the Year. The reality is our young players on the defensive side of the ball are not given much of an opportunity to play. As the defense ages maybe we are seeing the downsid of that.

Do you really think that if Lee was on the Steelers that LeBeau would have him on the field????????

[feltdizz]

Ovi is right... Lee would look just like Worilds because he wouldn't get any real action in Pittsburgh.

We would probably say Worilds should have been our guy if he was in Dallas right now.

[steelsnis]

This is nothing more than Posluszny vs. Timmons part deux...

Local Penn State kid that many on the board wanted to be drafted. He may very well turn out to be a good one, but it's waaaaaaaaay too early to tell.

[Eddie Spaghetti]

i wanted mt cody with that pick.

[phillyesq]

Ovi is right... Lee would look just like Worilds because he wouldn't get any real action in Pittsburgh.

We would probably say Worilds should have been our guy if he was in Dallas right now.

Actually, the Steelers work in young inside LBers when they have somebody. Kendrell Bell started as a rookie, and Foote and Holmes both played in their first and second years.

I remember hearing that Lee would have been the pick if Worilds was gone and thinking of that watching the Sunday night game.

It's an interesting one to follow. Next year, I'd imagine that one or both of Farrior and Foote will be gone, and even if they aren't, a replacement needs to be groomed. Not sure if it will be Sylvester or if they'll need to find somebody else.

The depth at OLB was also a serious issue. It seems like Harrison might need to be spelled, at least occassionally, early in the season, and I'd rather it be Worilds than the backups at OLB two years ago.

Worilds seems to have potential, but he hasn't really done anything to force his way onto the field, either. If he had, I could easily envision a pass rush package with Worilds, Harrison, Woodley and Timmons all on the field.

[Mister Pittsburgh]

I think the argument we needed more OLB depth so passed on a guy we had a first round grade on across the board, other than for Tomlin that is, is a bad excuse. Timmons was drafted to be an OLB and is easily switched to OLB. To say we already had Foote and Farrior on board with Key Fox as a backup is also lame. Foote was the run stopping ILB and not a real great talent and Farrior was already long in the tooth. Key Fox was nothing more than a special teamer that could step in if really needed but neither Fox or Foote should of even come into the equation when thinking about a first rounder.

Maybe Worilds will end up the next Joey Porter. If not, it was stupid to pass up Lee.

[fezziwig]

Worilds doesn't impress me and I doubt he ever will and to tell you the truth, Timmons doesn't impress me. How many years did Timmons sit the bench waiting to learn the defense ?
I keep hearing about the breakout season Timmons is supposed to have and it never arrives.

[feltdizz]

Lee has played in one game against a run heavy team...

I'm not knocking him but I sure would like to see where Lee was on the Tomlinson screen and on a few other plays that the Jets gashed the Cowboys on.

Everyone looks better in another uni because we aren't looking for what they do wrong.

[Dee Dub]

Lee is an ILB. Comparing him to Worilds is apples to oranges. Now..had Lee been drafted by the Steelers we very easily could be looking at a LB core of....

Harrison---Timmons----Lee----Woodley.

Sign me up for that.

[steelsnis]

Worilds doesn't impress me and I doubt he ever will and to tell you the truth, Timmons doesn't impress me. How many years did Timmons sit the bench waiting to learn the defense ?
I keep hearing about the breakout season Timmons is supposed to have and it never arrives.

Huh? You mean Timmons 135 tackle, 3 sack, 9 passes defended as an inside linebacker last season didn't impress you? Jeez... Tough crowd...

[Shawn]

The things some are failing to take into account is the amount of time it takes to convert a college DE to OLB. That is part of the issue. I wouldn't dare try to judge Worilds until his 3rd season and only after significant PT.

[Dee Dub]

The things some are failing to take into account is the amount of time it takes to convert a college DE to OLB. That is part of the issue. I wouldn't dare try to judge Worilds until his 3rd season and only after significant PT.

This is a valid point if only you are talking about Steeler OLB's. But if you are talking about the rest of the league and in particular the likes of....

DeMarcus Ware
Clay Matthews
Terrell Suggs
Shawn Merriman
Brian Orokpo

...this doesnt seem to have been the case for them.

All of whom made huge impacts in their first year. A year in which they converted from being a 4-3 DE in college.

And it looks like Washington's Ryan Kerrigan will be added to this list.

And Mario Williams seems to be adjusting rather well to his change.

[Slapstick]

The things some are failing to take into account is the amount of time it takes to convert a college DE to OLB. That is part of the issue. I wouldn't dare try to judge Worilds until his 3rd season and only after significant PT.

This is a valid point if only you are talking about Steeler OLB's. But if you are talking about the rest of the league and in particular the likes of....

DeMarcus Ware
Clay Matthews
Terrell Suggs
Shawn Merriman
Brian Orokpo

...this doesnt seem to have been the case for them.

All of whom made huge impacts in their first year. A year in which they converted from being a 4-3 DE in college.

And it looks like Washington's Ryan Kerrigan will be added to this list.

And Mario Williams seems to be adjusted rather well to the change as well.

Except they don't play like outside linebackers...they play like defensive ends...

Furthermore:

DeMarcus Ware = 11th overall pick
Clay Matthews = 26th overall pick
Terrell Suggs = 10th overall pick
Shawne Merriman = 12th overall pick
Brian Orakpo = 13th overall pick
Mario Williams = 1st overall pick

Jason Worilds = 52nd overall pick

More to the point, Matthews played LB for three seasons at USC before switching to the "elephant" or "leo" style of standup DE...it isn't so much a stretch from "leo" to 3-4 OLB...

So, if you want to compare a bunch of guys who either have experience at LB or were a top 15 pick to 2nd rounder Worilds who has to play behind DPOY James Harrison, go ahead...

[Slapstick]

BTW, Kerrigan was picked at #16....

[phillyesq]

The things some are failing to take into account is the amount of time it takes to convert a college DE to OLB. That is part of the issue. I wouldn't dare try to judge Worilds until his 3rd season and only after significant PT.

I would add to that, most of the Steelers successful conversion projects pushed for and received playing time early in their career. From Gildon and Porter to Woodley, they all made at least some contribution as rookies. Harrison is, of course, an exception.

As I write this, I check Worilds stats, and saw that he had two sacks as a rookie. I'm surprised. Didn't remember that.

I'm not giving up on Worilds, and I think he's already proven to be far better than Alonzo Jackson or Steven Conley, but he still has a ways to go.

[phillyesq]

Lee is an ILB. Comparing him to Worilds is apples to oranges. Now..had Lee been drafted by the Steelers we very easily could be looking at a LB core of....

Harrison---Timmons----Lee----Woodley.

Sign me up for that.

That would be a very nice group indeed, but would have left the Steelers very thin at OLB.

I hope Worilds becomes a player, and there is still time for that. Will be interesting a few years down the road to see how this one pans out.

[fezziwig]

Worilds doesn't impress me and I doubt he ever will and to tell you the truth, Timmons doesn't impress me. How many years did Timmons sit the bench waiting to learn the defense ?
I keep hearing about the breakout season Timmons is supposed to have and it never arrives.

Huh? You mean Timmons 135 tackle, 3 sack, 9 passes defended as an inside linebacker last season didn't impress you? Jeez... Tough crowd...


I know he gets his share of tackles and maybe I'm wrong to expect him to perform game changing feats. From all the time they spent on him I figured by now he would be viewed as or performed like a future HOF guy.
Maybe it's not in his job description to blow up plays or to create chaos for the offenses.

[Dee Dub]

The things some are failing to take into account is the amount of time it takes to convert a college DE to OLB. That is part of the issue. I wouldn't dare try to judge Worilds until his 3rd season and only after significant PT.

This is a valid point if only you are talking about Steeler OLB's. But if you are talking about the rest of the league and in particular the likes of....

DeMarcus Ware
Clay Matthews
Terrell Suggs
Shawn Merriman
Brian Orokpo

...this doesnt seem to have been the case for them.

All of whom made huge impacts in their first year. A year in which they converted from being a 4-3 DE in college.

And it looks like Washington's Ryan Kerrigan will be added to this list.

And Mario Williams seems to be adjusted rather well to the change as well.

Except they don't play like outside linebackers...they play like defensive ends...

Furthermore:

DeMarcus Ware = 11th overall pick
Clay Matthews = 26th overall pick
Terrell Suggs = 10th overall pick
Shawne Merriman = 12th overall pick
Brian Orakpo = 13th overall pick
Mario Williams = 1st overall pick

Jason Worilds = 52nd overall pick

More to the point, Matthews played LB for three seasons at USC before switching to the "elephant" or "leo" style of standup DE...it isn't so much a stretch from "leo" to 3-4 OLB...

So, if you want to compare a bunch of guys who either have experience at LB or were a top 15 pick to 2nd rounder Worilds who has to play behind DPOY James Harrison, go ahead...

Ok then what you are saying it is more of a talent thing and where you are drafted than it is the thought that the conversion is a difficult thing for most?? Because all around the league it isnt. Only on the Steelers.

Just so you know...I wasnt comparing Worilds to anyone. I am simply stating that there are many in the league past and present who have made this switch and done it successfully in their first year.

[ikestops85]

[quote=Shawn]The things some are failing to take into account is the amount of time it takes to convert a college DE to OLB. That is part of the issue. I wouldn't dare try to judge Worilds until his 3rd season and only after significant PT.

This is a valid point if only you are talking about Steeler OLB's. But if you are talking about the rest of the league and in particular the likes of....

DeMarcus Ware
Clay Matthews
Terrell Suggs
Shawn Merriman
Brian Orokpo

...this doesnt seem to have been the case for them.

All of whom made huge impacts in their first year. A year in which they converted from being a 4-3 DE in college.

And it looks like Washington's Ryan Kerrigan will be added to this list.

And Mario Williams seems to be adjusted rather well to the change as well.

Except they don't play like outside linebackers...they play like defensive ends...

Furthermore:

DeMarcus Ware = 11th overall pick
Clay Matthews = 26th overall pick
Terrell Suggs = 10th overall pick
Shawne Merriman = 12th overall pick
Brian Orakpo = 13th overall pick
Mario Williams = 1st overall pick

Jason Worilds = 52nd overall pick

More to the point, Matthews played LB for three seasons at USC before switching to the "elephant" or "leo" style of standup DE...it isn't so much a stretch from "leo" to 3-4 OLB...

So, if you want to compare a bunch of guys who either have experience at LB or were a top 15 pick to 2nd rounder Worilds who has to play behind DPOY James Harrison, go ahead...

Ok then what you are saying it is more of a talent thing and where you are drafted than it is the thought that the conversion is a difficult thing for most?? Because all around the league it isnt. Only on the Steelers.

Just so you know...I wasnt comparing Worilds to anyone. I am simply stating that there are many in the league past and present who have made this switch and done it successfully in their first year.[/quote:1m4lhbb4]

I'm not so sure those guys are as successful as you think. Sure, they have great sack totals but do they give up the big plays? Do they hurt the team more than they help?

I'll give you an example of what I am talking about. A number of years ago the Redskins drafted a high profile linebacker from Penn State. His name is Lavar Arrington and he was a #2 overall pick. He made a lot of 'splash plays' for the redskins his first few years but then his act wore thin. He made those plays because he freelanced. The problem is while freelancing he opened up huge holes in the skins defense and offenses were able to gouge them for big plays. Arrington never learned and was ultimately benched by Joe Gibbs. At first people were saying his injuries were the cause of the benching but as time went by it became known that it was his play. The redskins let him buy out of his contract and become a free agent. He signed with the Giants and again started to put up good stats until he was hurt. The Giants however released him the next year with the same rumors floating around. Arrington never signed with another team.

Now I'm not saying that is the case with the above referenced players. I just think because we don't watch them all the time we get hyped up by what is on Sports Center. Their play just might not be as good as many seem to think it is.

The Steelers would take a conservative approach in player development. LeBeau has a system where everyone has a specific job and the biggest thing he emphasizes is not to give up the big play. So instead of throwing the rookies into a 'trial by fire' situation they let them learn from the vets sitting in front of them on the depth chart. For some players that might be holding them back and others I'm sure it helps. It's just hard to argue with the success that we have had.

[Dee Dub]

[quote=Shawn]The things some are failing to take into account is the amount of time it takes to convert a college DE to OLB. That is part of the issue. I wouldn't dare try to judge Worilds until his 3rd season and only after significant PT.

This is a valid point if only you are talking about Steeler OLB's. But if you are talking about the rest of the league and in particular the likes of....

DeMarcus Ware
Clay Matthews
Terrell Suggs
Shawn Merriman
Brian Orokpo

...this doesnt seem to have been the case for them.

All of whom made huge impacts in their first year. A year in which they converted from being a 4-3 DE in college.

And it looks like Washington's Ryan Kerrigan will be added to this list.

And Mario Williams seems to be adjusted rather well to the change as well.

Except they don't play like outside linebackers...they play like defensive ends...

Furthermore:

DeMarcus Ware = 11th overall pick
Clay Matthews = 26th overall pick
Terrell Suggs = 10th overall pick
Shawne Merriman = 12th overall pick
Brian Orakpo = 13th overall pick
Mario Williams = 1st overall pick

Jason Worilds = 52nd overall pick

More to the point, Matthews played LB for three seasons at USC before switching to the "elephant" or "leo" style of standup DE...it isn't so much a stretch from "leo" to 3-4 OLB...

So, if you want to compare a bunch of guys who either have experience at LB or were a top 15 pick to 2nd rounder Worilds who has to play behind DPOY James Harrison, go ahead...

Ok then what you are saying it is more of a talent thing and where you are drafted than it is the thought that the conversion is a difficult thing for most?? Because all around the league it isnt. Only on the Steelers.

Just so you know...I wasnt comparing Worilds to anyone. I am simply stating that there are many in the league past and present who have made this switch and done it successfully in their first year.

I'm not so sure those guys are as successful as you think. Sure, they have great sack totals but do they give up the big plays? Do they hurt the team more than they help?

I'll give you an example of what I am talking about. A number of years ago the Redskins drafted a high profile linebacker from Penn State. His name is Lavar Arrington and he was a #2 overall pick. He made a lot of 'splash plays' for the redskins his first few years but then his act wore thin. He made those plays because he freelanced. The problem is while freelancing he opened up huge holes in the skins defense and offenses were able to gouge them for big plays. Arrington never learned and was ultimately benched by Joe Gibbs. At first people were saying his injuries were the cause of the benching but as time went by it became known that it was his play. The redskins let him buy out of his contract and become a free agent. He signed with the Giants and again started to put up good stats until he was hurt. The Giants however released him the next year with the same rumors floating around. Arrington never signed with another team.

Now I'm not saying that is the case with the above referenced players. I just think because we don't watch them all the time we get hyped up by what is on Sports Center. Their play just might not be as good as many seem to think it is.

The Steelers would take a conservative approach in player development. LeBeau has a system where everyone has a specific job and the biggest thing he emphasizes is not to give up the big play. So instead of throwing the rookies into a 'trial by fire' situation they let them learn from the vets sitting in front of them on the depth chart. For some players that might be holding them back and others I'm sure it helps. It's just hard to argue with the success that we have had.[/quote:2xyfgzsr]

Your argument is way off on these guys...

DeMarcus Ware
Clay Matthews
Terrell Suggs
Shawn Merriman
Brian Orokpo

They were all immediate impact players who were as good as advertised. And you'd be hard pressed to find anyone more successful in their rookies years than what these guys did.

[Mister Pittsburgh]

[quote=Shawn]The things some are failing to take into account is the amount of time it takes to convert a college DE to OLB. That is part of the issue. I wouldn't dare try to judge Worilds until his 3rd season and only after significant PT.

This is a valid point if only you are talking about Steeler OLB's. But if you are talking about the rest of the league and in particular the likes of....

DeMarcus Ware
Clay Matthews
Terrell Suggs
Shawn Merriman
Brian Orokpo

...this doesnt seem to have been the case for them.

All of whom made huge impacts in their first year. A year in which they converted from being a 4-3 DE in college.

And it looks like Washington's Ryan Kerrigan will be added to this list.

And Mario Williams seems to be adjusted rather well to the change as well.

Except they don't play like outside linebackers...they play like defensive ends...

Furthermore:

DeMarcus Ware = 11th overall pick
Clay Matthews = 26th overall pick
Terrell Suggs = 10th overall pick
Shawne Merriman = 12th overall pick
Brian Orakpo = 13th overall pick
Mario Williams = 1st overall pick

Jason Worilds = 52nd overall pick

More to the point, Matthews played LB for three seasons at USC before switching to the "elephant" or "leo" style of standup DE...it isn't so much a stretch from "leo" to 3-4 OLB...

So, if you want to compare a bunch of guys who either have experience at LB or were a top 15 pick to 2nd rounder Worilds who has to play behind DPOY James Harrison, go ahead...

Ok then what you are saying it is more of a talent thing and where you are drafted than it is the thought that the conversion is a difficult thing for most?? Because all around the league it isnt. Only on the Steelers.

Just so you know...I wasnt comparing Worilds to anyone. I am simply stating that there are many in the league past and present who have made this switch and done it successfully in their first year.[/quote:1e284k3t]

I agree with your general sentiment that for some reason the Steelers have difficulty with getting young players involved, and not just at the LB position. Even Troy rode the pine for a season.

[plainnasty]

Lee is an ILB. Comparing him to Worilds is apples to oranges. Now..had Lee been drafted by the Steelers we very easily could be looking at a LB core of....

Harrison---Timmons----Lee----Woodley.

Sign me up for that.

That would be a very nice group indeed, but would have left the Steelers very thin at OLB.

I hope Worilds becomes a player, and there is still time for that. Will be interesting a few years down the road to see how this one pans out.
When we drafted Thad Gibson in the 4th, I especially regretted not drafting Lee. But since Gibson has now been cut by 3 different teams, it looks like he wouldn't have been the answer.

[Shawn]

The things some are failing to take into account is the amount of time it takes to convert a college DE to OLB. That is part of the issue. I wouldn't dare try to judge Worilds until his 3rd season and only after significant PT.

This is a valid point if only you are talking about Steeler OLB's. But if you are talking about the rest of the league and in particular the likes of....

DeMarcus Ware
Clay Matthews
Terrell Suggs
Shawn Merriman
Brian Orokpo

...this doesnt seem to have been the case for them.

All of whom made huge impacts in their first year. A year in which they converted from being a 4-3 DE in college.

And it looks like Washington's Ryan Kerrigan will be added to this list.

And Mario Williams seems to be adjusting rather well to his change.

I don't watch other teams enough to know, but maybe it's the system. I do know that OLBs in the Steeler system are asked to do much. They don't just rush a passer.

[Slapstick]

Ok then what you are saying it is more of a talent thing and where you are drafted than it is the thought that the conversion is a difficult thing for most?? Because all around the league it isnt. Only on the Steelers.

Just so you know...I wasnt comparing Worilds to anyone. I am simply stating that there are many in the league past and present who have made this switch and done it successfully in their first year.

I'm not even saying that it's a talent thing...those guys were drafted in the top 15 picks because the teams that drafted them were not very good...those teams needed an edge rusher and got one in the top half of the first round...of course they played right away, because there were no DPOYs on the depth chart ahead of them...

Also, not all 3-4 defenses are built the same...the Steelers would rather draft a player and develop him in order to maintain the assignment integrity of the defense rather than put an unfinished product on the field...I think they learned their lesson with Kendrell Bell...

[hawaiiansteel]

so far in the first 3 games of the season Sean Lee has averaged over 10 tackles a game (leads the NFL with 31 tackles) and has 2 interceptions while the entire Steelers defense has zero. Sean Lee would look really nice next to Lawrence Timmons right now as Farrior's heir replacement.

drafting Worilds over Lee is going to rank right up there with Troy Edwards over Javon Kearse and Dennis Dixon over Carl Nicks as huge draft mistakes...Jason Worilds may be a great athlete, but Sean Lee is a great player.

[grotonsteel]

so far in the first 3 games of the season Sean Lee has averaged over 10 tackles a game (leads the NFL with 31 tackles) and has 2 interceptions while the entire Steelers defense has zero. Sean Lee would look really nice next to Lawrence Timmons right now as Farrior's heir replacement.

drafting Worilds over Lee is going to rank right up there with Troy Edwards over Javon Kearse and Dennis Dixon over Carl Nicks...Jason Worilds may be a great athlete, but Sean Lee is a great player.


:Agree

Worilds can't get on the field. Penn State LB should have got the nod. Penn State is famous for their LBs.

[hawaiiansteel]

so far in the first 3 games of the season Sean Lee has averaged over 10 tackles a game (leads the NFL with 31 tackles) and has 2 interceptions while the entire Steelers defense has zero. Sean Lee would look really nice next to Lawrence Timmons right now as Farrior's heir replacement.

drafting Worilds over Lee is going to rank right up there with Troy Edwards over Javon Kearse and Dennis Dixon over Carl Nicks...Jason Worilds may be a great athlete, but Sean Lee is a great player.


:Agree

Worilds can't get on the field. Penn State LB should have got the nod. Penn State is famous for their LBs.

the Steelers had a 1st round grade on Sean Lee, they should have stuck to their draft board and not reached for what they perceived to be a position of need at that time.