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View Full Version : Ras-I Dowling last night...



Dee Dub
09-13-2011, 01:16 PM
The rookie is starting for the Patriots and he looked pretty good last night in his first NFL game.

Also same can be said of....

Von Miller
Stefan Wisniewski OG second round pick
Rahim Moore FS
Akeem Ayers
Mason Foster
Julio Jones
Clint Boling OG 4th round pick
Will Rackley OG 3rd round pick
Jason Kelce C 6th round pick


All rookies. All starting. All contributing right away.

RuthlessBurgher
09-13-2011, 01:22 PM
And now 2nd round pick Marcus Gilbert will join that list. Hope he is a quick study like his former college teammate Maurkice Pouncey.

Oviedo
09-13-2011, 01:27 PM
The rookie is starting for the Patriots and he looked pretty good last night in his first NFL game.

Also same can be said of....

Von Miller
Stefan Wisniewski OG second round pick
Rahim Moore FS
Akeem Ayers
Mason Foster
Julio Jones
Clint Boling OG 4th round pick
Will Rackley OG 3rd round pick
Jason Kelce C 6th round pick


All rookies. All starting. All contributing right away.

...and Curtis Brown sits while Bmac and Gay get toasted.

Dee Dub
09-13-2011, 01:30 PM
..also forgot...there are others.

Mike Pouncey is starting for the Dolphins and of course Cam Newton for the Panthers.

Here, here, on the Marcus Gilbert start!!! :Clap

Oviedo
09-13-2011, 01:33 PM
..also forgot...there are others.

Mike Pouncey is starting for the Dolphins and of course Cam Newton for the Panthers.

Here, here, on the Marcus Gilbert start!!! :Clap

I don't think we have ever had an issue playing rookies on the offensive side of the ball.

Last year: Pouncey, Sanders, Brown.

isonator07
09-13-2011, 03:32 PM
The rookie is starting for the Patriots and he looked pretty good last night in his first NFL game.

Also same can be said of....

Von Miller
Stefan Wisniewski OG second round pick
Rahim Moore FS
Akeem Ayers
Mason Foster
Julio Jones
Clint Boling OG 4th round pick
Will Rackley OG 3rd round pick
Jason Kelce C 6th round pick


All rookies. All starting. All contributing right away.


I didn't watch the whole game, but I did see the drive before the 99 yd td to Welker. Dowlling clearly face guarded the Dolphin WR on 4th and goal. He played the WR the whole way. He waited until the WR moved his hands to catch the ball then just kinda swatted around for the ball. How it was missed by the ref who was standing right there baffles me.

Lebsteel
09-13-2011, 03:35 PM
The rookie is starting for the Patriots and he looked pretty good last night in his first NFL game.

Also same can be said of....

Von Miller
Stefan Wisniewski OG second round pick
Rahim Moore FS
Akeem Ayers
Mason Foster
Julio Jones
Clint Boling OG 4th round pick
Will Rackley OG 3rd round pick
Jason Kelce C 6th round pick


All rookies. All starting. All contributing right away.

...and Curtis Brown sits while Bmac and Gay get toasted.
I'd love to see BMac and Gay take a seat and Lewis start with Brown/Allen as the nickel. They can't be burned any worse than BGay.

papillon
09-13-2011, 03:38 PM
The rookie is starting for the Patriots and he looked pretty good last night in his first NFL game.

Also same can be said of....

Von Miller
Stefan Wisniewski OG second round pick
Rahim Moore FS
Akeem Ayers
Mason Foster
Julio Jones
Clint Boling OG 4th round pick
Will Rackley OG 3rd round pick
Jason Kelce C 6th round pick


All rookies. All starting. All contributing right away.

...and Curtis Brown sits while Bmac and Gay get toasted.
I'd love to see BMac and Gay take a seat and Lewis start with Brown/Allen as the nickel. They can't be burned any worse than BGay.

How much worse could it possibly be? Really?

Pappy

ikestops85
09-13-2011, 04:21 PM
Not only did Dowling look good but Nate Solder did a helluva job on Wake last night.

But to get back to Dowling and the Patriot defense ... the Miami QB did pick them apart last night and threw for as many yards as Rogers did against us in the SB. Their defense gave up as many points as ours did in the SB. I wonder if the Patriot fans are calling for the head of their DC or maybe even the HC? :stirpot

BURGH86STEEL
09-13-2011, 05:07 PM
For all the rookies that start, there are 5 times the number that sit and never contribute. I don't know why some go through this exercise every season. The Steelers play rookies they feel are ready to contribute.

DukieBoy
09-13-2011, 08:24 PM
Dowling looked good. I suspect they keep it simple for the rookies up in New Cheatland. They set them up to succeed that way, rather than complicate matters with a three-volume playbook their first year.

Chavezz
09-13-2011, 08:31 PM
The rookie is starting for the Patriots and he looked pretty good last night in his first NFL game.

Also same can be said of....

Von Miller
Stefan Wisniewski OG second round pick
Rahim Moore FS
Akeem Ayers
Mason Foster
Julio Jones
Clint Boling OG 4th round pick
Will Rackley OG 3rd round pick
Jason Kelce C 6th round pick


All rookies. All starting. All contributing right away.


I didn't watch the whole game, but I did see the drive before the 99 yd td to Welker. Dowlling clearly face guarded the Dolphin WR on 4th and goal. He played the WR the whole way. He waited until the WR moved his hands to catch the ball then just kinda swatted around for the ball. How it was missed by the ref who was standing right there baffles me.

Face guarding is no longer illegal I believe.

birtikidis
09-13-2011, 08:39 PM
Dowling looked good. I suspect they keep it simple for the rookies up in New Cheatland. They set them up to succeed that way, rather than complicate matters with a three-volume playbook their first year.
Don't forget to add in how rarely the *'s go three and out (we went 3 and out 3 times in the first half sunday) and how rarely they turn the ball over, their defense should be decent. We gave the Ravens 7 extra possessions. and y'all want to blame the defense for giving up yards.
and to be honest, after watching a weekend of football, most defenses looked terrible. It's an offenses league and for our to fail so miserably is disheartening. If BMac has any better coverage on that Boldin td, I guarantee it's PI. Sure our defense didn't play well, but our offense was pathetic.

Keyplay1
09-14-2011, 03:58 AM
The rookie is starting for the Patriots and he looked pretty good last night in his first NFL game.

Also same can be said of....

Von Miller
Stefan Wisniewski OG second round pick
Rahim Moore FS
Akeem Ayers
Mason Foster
Julio Jones
Clint Boling OG 4th round pick
Will Rackley OG 3rd round pick
Jason Kelce C 6th round pick


All rookies. All starting. All contributing right away.


I didn't watch the whole game, but I did see the drive before the 99 yd td to Welker. Dowlling clearly face guarded the Dolphin WR on 4th and goal. He played the WR the whole way. He waited until the WR moved his hands to catch the ball then just kinda swatted around for the ball. How it was missed by the ref who was standing right there baffles me.

You talking about that play he threw to the deep left corner of the EZ I guess. You might be right about the coverage, but since it was such a stupid call and such a low percentage completion chance any penalty called on it would be a crime.

I don't know how this guy played but all in all the NE D looked almost as bad as the Steelers. And that was very hard to do. But, since they won it goes unnoticed.

As far as getting the 1st year players in, I don't think it's really fair to use a game where one super amped team winning a game influences decisions on players. But, like a lot of others here I'm thinking these new guys better hurry up and get ready.

Oviedo
09-14-2011, 08:14 AM
Dowling looked good. I suspect they keep it simple for the rookies up in New Cheatland. They set them up to succeed that way, rather than complicate matters with a three-volume playbook their first year.

Keeping it simple seems to work.

If we are really as complex as rumored are we folling other teams or our own players? That has always been my issue with our current approach. Players get better being in games playing not studying 3 volumes of plays and variations of options of options of plays. Learn by doing.

williar
09-14-2011, 11:22 AM
The rookie is starting for the Patriots and he looked pretty good last night in his first NFL game.

Also same can be said of....

Von Miller
Stefan Wisniewski OG second round pick
Rahim Moore FS
Akeem Ayers
Mason Foster
Julio Jones
Clint Boling OG 4th round pick
Will Rackley OG 3rd round pick
Jason Kelce C 6th round pick


All rookies. All starting. All contributing right away.

Nice Thread...I was hoping someone would take notice. Let me add to that list,

Ryan Kerrigan Converted DE to Outside LB starting for the Skins - Interception returned for a touchdown.

Chris Nield NT 6th round pick- two sacks and a fumble recovery

williar
09-14-2011, 11:24 AM
And Muhamad Wilkerson didn't look too shabby starting for the jets.

Oviedo
09-14-2011, 11:32 AM
The rookie is starting for the Patriots and he looked pretty good last night in his first NFL game.

Also same can be said of....

Von Miller
Stefan Wisniewski OG second round pick
Rahim Moore FS
Akeem Ayers
Mason Foster
Julio Jones
Clint Boling OG 4th round pick
Will Rackley OG 3rd round pick
Jason Kelce C 6th round pick


All rookies. All starting. All contributing right away.

Nice Thread...I was hoping someone would take notice. Let me add to that list,

Ryan Kerrigan Converted DE to Outside LB starting for the Skins - Interception returned for a touchdown.

Chris Nield NT 6th round pick- two sacks and a fumble recovery


You mean a team can actually convert a DE to LB and have him starting on a play off caliber team as a rookie???????? Yes, that is sarcasm but it is reality that we can't or won't do that. I continue to sense a problem.

williar
09-14-2011, 11:45 AM
The rookie is starting for the Patriots and he looked pretty good last night in his first NFL game.

Also same can be said of....

Von Miller
Stefan Wisniewski OG second round pick
Rahim Moore FS
Akeem Ayers
Mason Foster
Julio Jones
Clint Boling OG 4th round pick
Will Rackley OG 3rd round pick
Jason Kelce C 6th round pick


All rookies. All starting. All contributing right away.

Nice Thread...I was hoping someone would take notice. Let me add to that list,

Ryan Kerrigan Converted DE to Outside LB starting for the Skins - Interception returned for a touchdown.

Chris Nield NT 6th round pick- two sacks and a fumble recovery


You mean a team can actually convert a DE to LB and have him starting on a play off caliber team as a rookie???????? Yes, that is sarcasm but it is reality that we can't or won't do that. I continue to sense a problem.

Yeah, and they also did the same with Brian Orakpo in his rookie year as a starter. I think he was the defensive rookie of the year.

I know what you mean. I wonder what gives myself. I also wonder who some of these recently converted 3-4 teams like the skins and GB inparticular can start rookies and play good defense at the same time. We are pioneers of the 3-4 with a veteran defense and still look like we've just learned it yesterday. Tell me, what gives?

RuthlessBurgher
09-14-2011, 12:26 PM
The rookie is starting for the Patriots and he looked pretty good last night in his first NFL game.

Also same can be said of....

Von Miller
Stefan Wisniewski OG second round pick
Rahim Moore FS
Akeem Ayers
Mason Foster
Julio Jones
Clint Boling OG 4th round pick
Will Rackley OG 3rd round pick
Jason Kelce C 6th round pick


All rookies. All starting. All contributing right away.

Nice Thread...I was hoping someone would take notice. Let me add to that list,

Ryan Kerrigan Converted DE to Outside LB starting for the Skins - Interception returned for a touchdown.

Chris Nield NT 6th round pick- two sacks and a fumble recovery


You mean a team can actually convert a DE to LB and have him starting on a play off caliber team as a rookie???????? Yes, that is sarcasm but it is reality that we can't or won't do that. I continue to sense a problem.

Washington is a playoff caliber team? What year is it...1991?

Oviedo
09-14-2011, 01:03 PM
The rookie is starting for the Patriots and he looked pretty good last night in his first NFL game.

Also same can be said of....

Von Miller
Stefan Wisniewski OG second round pick
Rahim Moore FS
Akeem Ayers
Mason Foster
Julio Jones
Clint Boling OG 4th round pick
Will Rackley OG 3rd round pick
Jason Kelce C 6th round pick


All rookies. All starting. All contributing right away.

Nice Thread...I was hoping someone would take notice. Let me add to that list,

Ryan Kerrigan Converted DE to Outside LB starting for the Skins - Interception returned for a touchdown.

Chris Nield NT 6th round pick- two sacks and a fumble recovery


You mean a team can actually convert a DE to LB and have him starting on a play off caliber team as a rookie???????? Yes, that is sarcasm but it is reality that we can't or won't do that. I continue to sense a problem.

Yeah, and they also did the same with Brian Orakpo in his rookie year as a starter. I think he was the defensive rookie of the year.

I know what you mean. I wonder what gives myself. I also wonder who some of these recently converted 3-4 teams like the skins and GB inparticular can start rookies and play good defense at the same time. We are pioneers of the 3-4 with a veteran defense and still look like we've just learned it yesterday. Tell me, what gives?

I'll take some real life perspective and tell you what I think. I manage in a compnay that is filled with engineers. Most of what I do is keeping them focused on meeting the requirements because left to their own means they would spend hours thinking up the most intricate, elegant engineering solution for the simpliest things. They are addicted to the idea of what if versus what is needed.

In my totally uninformed, speculative mind that is what I think has happened to our defense. LeBeau has become so enamored in the number of variations and variations to variations of what he can do out formations that it has become ridiculously difficult for people to come in and learn the defense. Rumor has it our defensive playbook is three volumes...really?????? How about cover your man, blitz here and tackle the guy. Keep in mind, the players we have coming in are for the most part from major college programs playing in power conferences. It's not like they are coming from some small division II colleges.

These guys have been playing football all their lives and know the game but we can't seem to get them on the field.

D Rock
09-14-2011, 01:15 PM
The rookie is starting for the Patriots and he looked pretty good last night in his first NFL game.

Also same can be said of....

Von Miller
Stefan Wisniewski OG second round pick
Rahim Moore FS
Akeem Ayers
Mason Foster
Julio Jones
Clint Boling OG 4th round pick
Will Rackley OG 3rd round pick
Jason Kelce C 6th round pick


All rookies. All starting. All contributing right away.

Nice Thread...I was hoping someone would take notice. Let me add to that list,

Ryan Kerrigan Converted DE to Outside LB starting for the Skins - Interception returned for a touchdown.

Chris Nield NT 6th round pick- two sacks and a fumble recovery


You mean a team can actually convert a DE to LB and have him starting on a play off caliber team as a rookie???????? Yes, that is sarcasm but it is reality that we can't or won't do that. I continue to sense a problem.

Yeah, and they also did the same with Brian Orakpo in his rookie year as a starter. I think he was the defensive rookie of the year.

I know what you mean. I wonder what gives myself. I also wonder who some of these recently converted 3-4 teams like the skins and GB inparticular can start rookies and play good defense at the same time. We are pioneers of the 3-4 with a veteran defense and still look like we've just learned it yesterday. Tell me, what gives?


GB starting rookies is a bit different. They had Raji and Matthews 2 years ago, both as first round picks, who got playing time. Both guys are studs, thats why they played.

Last year it was Sam Shields, but he was playing as a nickle corner only, and no one even knew about him until he had a couple good games in the playoffs. And he played over Jarret Bush, who is a career backup and always will be. I think the perception that GB has all of these rookies starting on defense is a bit overblown.

Oviedo
09-14-2011, 01:18 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":24cro8ot]The rookie is starting for the Patriots and he looked pretty good last night in his first NFL game.

Also same can be said of....

Von Miller
Stefan Wisniewski OG second round pick
Rahim Moore FS
Akeem Ayers
Mason Foster
Julio Jones
Clint Boling OG 4th round pick
Will Rackley OG 3rd round pick
Jason Kelce C 6th round pick


All rookies. All starting. All contributing right away.

Nice Thread...I was hoping someone would take notice. Let me add to that list,

Ryan Kerrigan Converted DE to Outside LB starting for the Skins - Interception returned for a touchdown.

Chris Nield NT 6th round pick- two sacks and a fumble recovery


You mean a team can actually convert a DE to LB and have him starting on a play off caliber team as a rookie???????? Yes, that is sarcasm but it is reality that we can't or won't do that. I continue to sense a problem.

Yeah, and they also did the same with Brian Orakpo in his rookie year as a starter. I think he was the defensive rookie of the year.

I know what you mean. I wonder what gives myself. I also wonder who some of these recently converted 3-4 teams like the skins and GB inparticular can start rookies and play good defense at the same time. We are pioneers of the 3-4 with a veteran defense and still look like we've just learned it yesterday. Tell me, what gives?


GB starting rookies is a bit different. They had Raji and Matthews 2 years ago, both as first round picks, who got playing time. Both guys are studs, thats why they played.

Last year it was Sam Shields, but he was playing as a nickle corner only, and no one even knew about him until he had a couple good games in the playoffs. And he played over Jarret Bush, who is a career backup and always will be. I think the perception that GB has all of these rookies starting on defense is a bit overblown.[/quote:24cro8ot]

The fact is that they were rookies and when they got the chance to get on the field they performed. How would we ever know what our rookies on defense could or couldn't do when they don't get a chance.

Don't forget that Dom Capers was simultaneously transitioning from a 4-3 to a 3-4 defense while these young players were making it happen. Either his 3-4 is much simpler to assimilate or the Packers draft much smarter players than we do.

D Rock
09-14-2011, 01:23 PM
GB starting rookies is a bit different. They had Raji and Matthews 2 years ago, both as first round picks, who got playing time. Both guys are studs, thats why they played.

Last year it was Sam Shields, but he was playing as a nickle corner only, and no one even knew about him until he had a couple good games in the playoffs. And he played over Jarret Bush, who is a career backup and always will be. I think the perception that GB has all of these rookies starting on defense is a bit overblown.

The fact is that they were rookies and when they got the chance to get on the field they performed. How would we ever know what our rookies on defense could or couldn't do when they don't get a chance.


Besides giving Brown and Allen a chance this year (which could happen...we wont know til January), who are we even proposing should have gotten this rookie year playing time?

Hood over Smith when he was in his prime?
Heyward over Hood this year?
Sylvester over Farrior and Timmons a couple years ago?
Maybe you would have liked to see Woodley and Harrison riding the pine last year so Worilds could get a chance?

No rookies play on the defense because they are not any better than the alternative. You can talk all you want about guys performing on other teams as rookies, but they are not members of the Steelers so its a moot point.

williar
09-14-2011, 04:49 PM
If true, having a three volume playbook is NUTS! Yeah, it might make your DC look like a genious but I bet privately most of these defensive guys wish he would cut that mess out. For all of Lebeau complexities our defense still can't defend elite qb's or stop the short passing game. What's in the three volume playbook to stop that?

DukieBoy
09-14-2011, 06:07 PM
If true, having a three volume playbook is NUTS! Yeah, it might make your DC look like a genious but I bet privately most of these defensive guys wish he would cut that mess out. For all of Lebeau complexities our defense still can't defend elite qb's or stop the short passing game. What's in the three volume playbook to stop that?


Three-volume playbook.
(Not intended to be a factual statement)

However, from what I hear about how complicated the Steeler defensive schemes are, it seems believable.

Three-volume playbook.
(Intended to be hyperbole)

Complexity is one explanation often given for why rookies have difficulty getting playing time in the defense.