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Steelhere10
09-12-2011, 08:33 PM
Who think, he wasn't out schemed ... Go to Steelersdepot.com and listen to the postgame podcast. At the 11min mark they say the same thing and also mention that the game reminded them of the NE game. Face it folks DL is 70 + yrs of age the game may have passed him by, he is no young pup anymore. I am 41yrs of age and at times my memory don't work so well what do you think about his working at a high level.
Yes some may argue that the defense are constantly in the top 10 defense category each year but with Troy, James, Wood, Timmons and Ike you SHOULD ! granted that the other position are compiled of slow and old but that's more stars on the defensive side of the ball than most teams they should rank high. Now let the bashing begin but please don't comment if you don't want to discuss , save the name calling please but give me your thoughts.

SteelTorch
09-12-2011, 08:37 PM
You're right! The end is hear! Say goodbye to the season, cause every team's going to be throwing for 400+ yards on us from here on out! :roll:

Eddie Spaghetti
09-12-2011, 08:42 PM
don't throw the baby out with the bathwater, brah.

he might not survive the fall like you did.

hawaiiansteel
09-12-2011, 08:57 PM
save the name calling please but give me your thoughts.


aw man, you're no fun :)

IMO, LeBeau will be missed when he's no longer our DC....

RuthlessBurgher
09-13-2011, 12:00 AM
Who think, he wasn't out schemed ... Go to Steelersdepot.com and listen to the postgame podcast. At the 11min mark they say the same thing and also mention that the game reminded them of the NE game. Face it folks DL is 70 + yrs of age the game may have passed him by, he is no young pup anymore. I am 41yrs of age and at times my memory don't work so well what do you think about his working at a high level.
Yes some may argue that the defense are constantly in the top 10 defense category each year but with Troy, James, Wood, Timmons and Ike you SHOULD ! granted that the other position are compiled of slow and old but that's more stars on the defensive side of the ball than most teams they should rank high. Now let the bashing begin but please don't comment if you don't want to discuss , save the name calling please but give me your thoughts.

:nono The owner of that board does not want our clicks. Screw him.

http://www.planetsteelers.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=17600

Lonbull
09-13-2011, 01:27 PM
Steelhere10 -

While watching the Ravens game this past weekend, it didn't appear to me that we were "out-schemed" --- it appeared more like we were "out" personneled. That's not something in LeBeau's hands - that's entirely on Ownership, Colbert, and Tomlin.

Woodley and Harrison (when they blitzed) failed to get any real pressure on Flacco. We attempted to blitz up the middle a few times - but were still ineffective.

I will say that a number of the Steelers looked old and slow in this game - we'll see if it's a fatigue thing or if we're about to see the Steelers let go of a number of former stars. But Ray Rice and the offense looked a step ahead at every turn.

Of course the offense didn't do the defense any favors by giving the ball to the Ravens on the Steelers 37 yard line on theri second drive --- now it's 14-0.

In the past we've seen the Steelers come up with stiffling defense in these moments, but it didn't happen here....for some of us who like LeBeau - we tend to remember he was the DC during those stiffling moments as well - not just when his defense fails to bail out the offense yet again.

The next Ravens scoring drive - unfortunately - was zero pressure on the QB - the Steelers had the Ravens in 3rd and 6 yards three times during this drive, and all three were Flacco in the shotgun for completed passes, first downs, (and a TD).

The three scores that followed this drive begin as follows -

Starting on the Pitt 18 yard line - TD

(Starting on the Pitt 17 yard line - The defense held here! No Score)

Starting on the Balt 10 yard line - Field Goal.

Starting on the Pitt 9 yard line - FG

I concede that the Steelers Defense gave up 17 points from drives beginning on the Ravens side of the field - the other 18 points I don't accept as a failure in defensive coaching or scheme - I point at the offense giving up the ball 7 times and a special teams error.

I certainly appreciate LeBeau's age - but he helped coach us to a Super Bowl just 7 months ago....so are you really saying 7 months have made a difference?!?

I'm a Steelers fan first and foremost - and if letting LeBeau go is best for the organization, I'm all for it. He's been the DC of the last 4 Super Bowls the Steelers have been in....and he's done it with a number of different players.

I think blaming LeBeau for this loss is absurd - last time I looked the offense put up as many points as they did turnovers......if the defense would have been able to hold all of the attempts from their side of the field just to Field Goals, the Ravens still would have won.

I would need someone to connect D. LeBeau with why Ben Roethlisberger can't put the ball in the right team's hands, why our running back can't hold on to the ball, and why our offensive line looked like High Schoolers.....if you can link LeBeau to those problems, then you might have a real discussion on your hands for this particular game.

L.B.

Oviedo
09-13-2011, 01:31 PM
Steelhere10 -

While watching the Ravens game this past weekend, it didn't appear to me that we were "out-schemed" --- it appeared more like we were "out" personneled. That's not something in LeBeau's hands - that's entirely on Ownership, Colbert, and Tomlin.

Woodley and Harrison (when they blitzed) failed to get any real pressure on Flacco. We attempted to blitz up the middle a few times - but were still ineffective.

I will say that a number of the Steelers looked old and slow in this game - we'll see if it's a fatigue thing or if we're about to see the Steelers let go of a number of former stars. But Ray Rice and the offense looked a step ahead at every turn.

Of course the offense didn't do the defense any favors by giving the ball to the Ravens on the Steelers 37 yard line on theri second drive --- now it's 14-0.

In the past we've seen the Steelers come up with stiffling defense in these moments, but it didn't happen here....for some of us who like LeBeau - we tend to remember he was the DC during those stiffling moments as well - not just when his defense fails to bail out the offense yet again.

The next Ravens scoring drive - unfortunately - was zero pressure on the QB - the Steelers had the Ravens in 3rd and 6 yards three times during this drive, and all three were Flacco in the shotgun for completed passes, first downs, (and a TD).

The three scores that followed this drive begin as follows -

Starting on the Pitt 18 yard line - TD

(Starting on the Pitt 17 yard line - The defense held here! No Score)

Starting on the Balt 10 yard line - Field Goal.

Starting on the Pitt 9 yard line - FG

I concede that the Steelers Defense gave up 17 points from drives beginning on the Ravens side of the field - the other 18 points I don't accept as a failure in defensive coaching or scheme - I point at the offense giving up the ball 7 times and a special teams error.

I certainly appreciate LeBeau's age - but he helped coach us to a Super Bowl just 7 months ago....so are you really saying 7 months have made a difference?!?

I'm a Steelers fan first and foremost - and if letting LeBeau go is best for the organization, I'm all for it. He's been the DC of the last 4 Super Bowls the Steelers have been in....and he's done it with a number of different players.

I think blaming LeBeau for this loss is absurd - last time I looked the offense put up as many points as they did turnovers......if the defense would have been able to hold all of the attempts from their side of the field just to Field Goals, the Ravens still would have won.

I would need someone to connect D. LeBeau with why Ben Roethlisberger can't put the ball in the right team's hands, why our running back can't hold on to the ball, and why our offensive line looked like High Schoolers.....if you can link LeBeau to those problems, then you might have a real discussion on your hands for this particular game.

L.B.


Do you really think that a coach with LeBeau's seniority and reputation has no input on what players are brought in or kept???? Seriously, think about it!!!!!!

Please don't try to make excuses for LeBeau. This past week's performance is just as much his fault as anyone elses. He had no answers or adjustments to what the Ravens were doing. Just look at the number of three and four man rushes we had.

Djfan
09-13-2011, 02:35 PM
Lonbull represented my views perfectly. Except the part about personel. I think Tomlin asks him who to keep or cut.

Lonbull
09-13-2011, 02:45 PM
Do you really think that a coach with LeBeau's seniority and reputation has no input on what players are brought in or kept???? Seriously, think about it!!!!!!

Oviedo - Does LeBeau have input...absolutely. Does LeBeau make the "choices" of who stays and who goes.....you know he doesn't! That's decided by Ownership, Colbert and Tomlin.



Please don't try to make excuses for LeBeau. This past week's performance is just as much his fault as anyone elses.

I COMPLETELY disagree with this!!

The offense gave up 7 turnovers....SEVEN!!!

In the second half the OFFENSE gave the Ravens the ball inside of Pittsburgh 20 yard line three times....and the defense still managed to hold them to 10 points!! I think that's pretty good considering that 10 points was more than enough to defeat what our offense did last Sunday.

IMO - you're looking in the completely wrong direction to think that LeBeau has an equal blame to a Quarterback who threw 3 INT's and let 2 Fumbles go. Let alone the two runningback who couldn't keep a grip on the ball.



He had no answers or adjustments to what the Ravens were doing. Just look at the number of three and four man rushes we had.

What I do know is this - 6 of the 9 possessions that started on the Ravens side of the field ended up in Punts or the End of the Half (which let's not forget the offense failed to burn significant time off of the clock - and gave the Ravens a pretty healthy shot to still score points).

I certainly concede that two of the touchdowns in the first half were concerning....but putting LeBeau at the top of the list or on equal footing with the horrendous performance by the Steelers Offense - and Mike Tomlin doing absolutely NOTHING to resolve any of these matters while the game was takng place - is just daft.

The Steelers Defense failed to bail out an offense that never....and I repeat, NEVER seems to carry it's own weight.....

If you want to critisize his scheme and his coaching - go right ahead....but you're not going to find a more accomplished DC than D. LeBeau in the league -

What I don't understand is how many of you look the "other way" while Ben gives the ball up 5 times - and instead blame LeBeau for the loss - that I don't understand.....it's like all is forgiven from Running Backs who fumble, Quarterbacks who throw multiple INT's and a front line that can't block and can't stay healthy?!?!

If you ask me - LeBeau would look like a genius if he ever had the chance to play against our offense....think about it.

When it comes to this particular loss - D. LeBeau is pretty far down on the list IMO.

L.B.

grotonsteel
09-13-2011, 02:59 PM
Who think, he wasn't out schemed ... Go to Steelersdepot.com and listen to the postgame podcast. At the 11min mark they say the same thing and also mention that the game reminded them of the NE game. Face it folks DL is 70 + yrs of age the game may have passed him by, he is no young pup anymore. I am 41yrs of age and at times my memory don't work so well what do you think about his working at a high level.
Yes some may argue that the defense are constantly in the top 10 defense category each year but with Troy, James, Wood, Timmons and Ike you SHOULD ! granted that the other position are compiled of slow and old but that's more stars on the defensive side of the ball than most teams they should rank high. Now let the bashing begin but please don't comment if you don't want to discuss , save the name calling please but give me your thoughts.

:Clap


Dick Lebeau should have retired last season. It should have been Keith Butler show.

What did Steelers do improve Pass Defense?? They retained McFadden and Gay. D-line is Smith-Ham-Kiesel. Smith is done.

New CBs will never see the field for 2 years atleast. There is no youth movement on D because Lebeau's scheme is too complex too understand.

I mean Gay is on this team because he understands playbook. WTF. I mean i can understand if you have a probowl player playing in front of you but if you can't find players to replace McFadden and Gay it is epic fail.

D-Line is old. Hood is a backup even though i thought he played really well in playoffs. Harrison is not 100%. woodley is always MIA early in the season. farrior is old. Steelers spent 60 million on D....Where is the bling?????

grotonsteel
09-13-2011, 03:11 PM
Please don't try to make excuses for LeBeau. This past week's performance is just as much his fault as anyone elses.

I COMPLETELY disagree with this!!

The offense gave up 7 turnovers....SEVEN!!!

In the second half the OFFENSE gave the Ravens the ball inside of Pittsburgh 20 yard line three times....and the defense still managed to hold them to 10 points!! I think that's pretty good considering that 10 points was more than enough to defeat what our offense did last Sunday.

IMO - you're looking in the completely wrong direction to think that LeBeau has an equal blame to a Quarterback who threw 3 INT's and let 2 Fumbles go. Let alone the two runningback who couldn't keep a grip on the ball.



He had no answers or adjustments to what the Ravens were doing. Just look at the number of three and four man rushes we had.

What I do know is this - 6 of the 9 possessions that started on the Ravens side of the field ended up in Punts or the End of the Half (which let's not forget the offense failed to burn significant time off of the clock - and gave the Ravens a pretty healthy shot to still score points).

I certainly concede that two of the touchdowns in the first half were concerning....but putting LeBeau at the top of the list or on equal footing with the horrendous performance by the Steelers Offense - and Mike Tomlin doing absolutely NOTHING to resolve any of these matters while the game was takng place - is just daft.

The Steelers Defense failed to bail out an offense that never....and I repeat, NEVER seems to carry it's own weight.....

If you want to critisize his scheme and his coaching - go right ahead....but you're not going to find a more accomplished DC than D. LeBeau in the league -

What I don't understand is how many of you look the "other way" while Ben gives the ball up 5 times - and instead blame LeBeau for the loss - that I don't understand.....it's like all is forgiven from Running Backs who fumble, Quarterbacks who throw multiple INT's and a front line that can't block and can't stay healthy?!?!

If you ask me - LeBeau would look like a genius if he ever had the chance to play against our offense....think about it.

When it comes to this particular loss - D. LeBeau is pretty far down on the list IMO.

L.B.


LB can you tell me how much money Steelers spent on D in this offseason?? If i buy a Ferrari and if i keep it running at 30 mph who is to blame for it?? Blame the driver. Dick lebeau should have retired last season. Lebeau defense can' stop teams like Packers,Cheatroits,Saints...now add Ratbirds to it. There is a reason why Bengals and Browns decided to move WCO. Lebeau can't defend WCO offense if executed properly.

Steelers signed one freaking O-lineman and he is injured now. So you expect 35 points from Offense when Steelers FO don't want to bring players on Offensive line.

j Scott- Rejected by Bills..
Gilbert- Rookie...i hope he turns into a great player.
Kemo- Brain fart.
Doug- Can't block anyone
Pouncey- Only good lineman who also struggled against ratbirds

You expect consistent offense behind that O-line??? really???

Steelers FO put all their eggs in one basket and that is D. They splashed money on D and they could not stop Ray Rice and Flacco. Flacco has gone on record how he fooled Troy in game 1.

BackwoodsSteeler
09-13-2011, 03:29 PM
I'm just sick to death over not being able to get off the field on 3rd down. :HeadBanger

papillon
09-13-2011, 03:37 PM
I'm not sure why everyone picks a whipping boy and blames that person or their unit exclusively for a loss like the one this past weekend. BY and large the Steeler coaches put the team in a position to win. I don't think that they rested on last year's trip to the Super Bowl and didn't prepare for this game. What they can't account for are things like the following:

A new right guard who played admirably in the Super Bowl and in pres-season being completely manhandled
A veteran DE being pushed all over the field
A veteran quarterback making some pretty bad decisions
A veteran and potential HOF safety almost completely disappearing from the game
Two of the best pass rushers in the game not being able to put any pressure on Flacco
A gifted but still very young center not performing up to his Pro-Bowl credentials

There's so much failure to go around in this game that picking one side of the ball or the other and blaming them is kind of silly.

Pappy

ikestops85
09-13-2011, 03:45 PM
The defense was outplayed by a marginal Ravens offense. LeBeau is the coach of the D so he needs to take the blame for the players not being ready ... period. I love LeBeau so I don't see this game as anything but an anomaly. If that turns out not to be true then we need to look into replacing DL.

But let's not panic quite yet. This is only the first game of the season and to go along with the defense playing bad the offense decided it was going to play even worse. I must take a brief moment to say that I thought Arians was calling a great game in the 1st quarter. The only person on D that I thought looked ready to play was Ike. Everybody else seemed to be running in quicksand.

I wish some people here would quit saying that the only reason Gay is playing is because he knows the defense. Not true. The coaches have repeatedly said they like him covering the slot. That is why he is on the field. We are not intentionally sitting guys who are better players. Hopefully we are sitting guys who have the 'potential' to be better players.

My thoughts are these guys will bounce back next week. It was obvious that Baltimore wanted this game more than we did. It was their SB. This won't be the case the next time we play.

ramblinjim
09-13-2011, 04:03 PM
First off, I'm a homer and a big fan of D!ck Lebeau, his defense and what he's brought to the Steelers over the years. When coach Cowher retired, DL represented continuity and a good presence to help a very young coach get started.

When this team is 3-7 going into the bye week (I think week 11 is our bye) and we are continuing to get out played by good but not great opposing quarterbacks, I will be very very concerned.

But until then, sometimes you just get you @ss kicked. And man did we ever get ours kicked. I remember a few years ago when the Patriots came out in week one and just got thumped by the Buffalo Bills, I don't remember when it was but I think the won the Super Bowl that year. Everyone gets beat sometimes. Hopefully this was our one good thumpin' for the year.

At 3-7 or even 4-6 around week 10, I'm with you. I'll be calling for Tomlin's head, and the Rooney's to sell the team, etc. :tt2

feltdizz
09-13-2011, 04:20 PM
Baltimore wanted it more... plain and simple. This was their "getback" for last season.

I'm not even mad about the loss anymore...

Age is my primary concern. The Ravens cut 3 or 4 vets that we would never cut due to our FO loyalty. It's all well and good but bringing back old guys you cut wasn't how we did things and it worked. We brought back 4 players and none of them have improved our team.

If you want to blame anyone though blame the Ravens.. the kicked our azzzz.

ikestops85
09-13-2011, 04:23 PM
Baltimore wanted it more... plain and simple. This was their "getback" for last season.

I'm not even mad about the loss anymore...

Age is my primary concern. The Ravens cut 3 or 4 vets that we would never cut due to our FO loyalty. It's all well and good but bringing back old guys you cut wasn't how we did things and it worked. We brought back 4 players and none of them have improved our team.

If you want to blame anyone though blame the Ravens.. the kicked our azzzz.
:Clap :Clap

Lonbull
09-13-2011, 04:55 PM
Steelers signed one freaking O-lineman and he is injured now. So you expect 35 points from Offense when Steelers FO don't want to bring players on Offensive line.

j Scott- Rejected by Bills..
Gilbert- Rookie...i hope he turns into a great player.
Kemo- Brain fart.
Doug- Can't block anyone
Pouncey- Only good lineman who also struggled against ratbirds

You expect consistent offense behind that O-line??? really???


I just want to make sure I understand this - No matter how inefficient the Offense is this season, and no matter how many turnovers they have....or even where the turnovers happen (4 times inside the 40 yard line of the Steelers) - If the Offense is only able to score 7 points.....you expect D. LeBeau to have a scheme to win these games?

That's what YOU expect????? REALLY????

L.B.

Ghost
09-13-2011, 05:08 PM
I agree with 99% pf your post LB. To put so much blame on the D after the O threw up one of the worst games they've played in recent memory seems silly (to use Pap's verbiage). There a lot of teams that would have aloowed over 50 to the ravens that day.

I will say I disagree with you on LeBeau's "input" vs "choice" of players on the defensive side of the ball. My opinion (and obviously I'm not in the room on cut day) is he very much controls the players that make the team. I really have no doubt that when he says "Gay makes it over whomever" that's the final say. I also think he controls who starts and when they get pulled. Obviously Tomlin has final say but I'm guessing he defers to DB on the majority of such calls.

Here's hoping the hawks and colts are good for what ails this team!

steelblood
09-13-2011, 05:27 PM
yeah, this game was an utter and complete failure by all units, all coaches. is lebeau's scheme susceptible to being spread out. absolutely. does he have an answer yet? no. does keith butler? if he did, i imagine he would have shared it by now.

grotonsteel
09-13-2011, 06:23 PM
Steelers signed one freaking O-lineman and he is injured now. So you expect 35 points from Offense when Steelers FO don't want to bring players on Offensive line.

j Scott- Rejected by Bills..
Gilbert- Rookie...i hope he turns into a great player.
Kemo- Brain fart.
Doug- Can't block anyone
Pouncey- Only good lineman who also struggled against ratbirds

You expect consistent offense behind that O-line??? really???


I just want to make sure I understand this - No matter how inefficient the Offense is this season, and no matter how many turnovers they have....or even where the turnovers happen (4 times inside the 40 yard line of the Steelers) - If the Offense is only able to score 7 points.....you expect D. LeBeau to have a scheme to win these games?

That's what YOU expect????? REALLY????

L.B.

You blame Offense for team being down 21-7??? You blame offense when opponents have a RB with 150 yards and a QB who threw for 3 TD. BTW Flacco is not an elite QB. You blame offense when Steelers D-line can't even beat a patchwork O-line of ravens. You blame Offense for giving jay Flacco 10 sec to throw???

Do you really believe if game was 14-14 or 7-7 Steelers would have called the game same way or Steelers would have made the same mistakes??? I highly doubt it. 7 TOs is unacceptable but to say Defense and Dick Lebeau gets least blame is ridiculous IMO.

Antonio Brown and sanders are 2 year old NFL players. Heath Miller is the only true TE. Hines Ward well is old and slow. O-line as i mentioned is crap. You are not going to get consistent offense with that unit. There are going to be growing pains on offensive side.

Steelers FO splashed money on D and you expect better D on the field. Again if you want 35 points/game from the Steelers Offensive unit let Steelers FO spend money on O-line. Don't try to to plugging some UDFA or 6th Rd players .

Am i saying Ben played at a pro bowl level??? hell no. offense sucked but it was against a really good defense. Steelers Defense sucked against a lesser offensive juggernaut from first play in that game. Steelers Defense set the tone in that game of getting back kicked. Offense joined the party late in the game.

chiken
09-13-2011, 07:26 PM
Steelers signed one freaking O-lineman and he is injured now. So you expect 35 points from Offense when Steelers FO don't want to bring players on Offensive line.

j Scott- Rejected by Bills..
Gilbert- Rookie...i hope he turns into a great player.
Kemo- Brain fart.
Doug- Can't block anyone
Pouncey- Only good lineman who also struggled against ratbirds

You expect consistent offense behind that O-line??? really???


I just want to make sure I understand this - No matter how inefficient the Offense is this season, and no matter how many turnovers they have....or even where the turnovers happen (4 times inside the 40 yard line of the Steelers) - If the Offense is only able to score 7 points.....you expect D. LeBeau to have a scheme to win these games?

That's what YOU expect????? REALLY????

L.B.

You blame Offense for team being down 21-7??? You blame offense when opponents have a RB with 150 yards and a QB who threw for 3 TD. BTW Flacco is not an elite QB. You blame offense when Steelers D-line can't even beat a patchwork O-line of ravens. You blame Offense for giving jay Flacco 10 sec to throw???

Do you really believe if game was 14-14 or 7-7 Steelers would have called the game same way or Steelers would have made the same mistakes??? I highly doubt it. 7 TOs is unacceptable but to say Defense and bad word Lebeau gets least blame is ridiculous IMO.

Antonio Brown and sanders are 2 year old NFL players. Heath Miller is the only true TE. Hines Ward well is old and slow. O-line as i mentioned is crap. You are not going to get consistent offense with that unit. There are going to be growing pains on offensive side.

Steelers FO splashed money on D and you expect better D on the field. Again if you want 35 points/game from the Steelers Offensive unit let Steelers FO spend money on O-line. Don't try to to plugging some UDFA or 6th Rd players .

Am i saying Ben played at a pro bowl level??? hell no. offense sucked but it was against a really good defense. Steelers Defense sucked against a lesser offensive juggernaut from first play in that game. Steelers Defense set the tone in that game of getting back kicked. Offense joined the party late in the game.

This pretty much sums it up.

Raise your hand if you thought we were going 16-0. Now slap yourself in the face with that same hand...