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View Full Version : I just replayed the Mendenhall fumble....



Dee Dub
09-12-2011, 05:56 PM
and I gotta tell you....his eyes were never on the the ball. He is fixed on Ngata all the way. As a result he does not take the hand off cleanly. CBS shows a replay from the defensive side of the play and you can clearly see Mendy's eyes fixed on Ngata the whole time. Yes I know he's about to get hit hard by a beast of a man but he has got to stop fumbling the ball just because he gets hit hard. This, like the one on the Super Bowl, is all on him.

Eddie Spaghetti
09-12-2011, 06:00 PM
hey chief, the game is pretty fast.

just because you can slow-mo a DVR doesn't make you a coach.

take a break.

flippy
09-12-2011, 06:03 PM
why are you torturing yourself rewatching this?

ngata was on mendy before he got the ball and he never got the ball cleanly.

Eddie Spaghetti
09-12-2011, 06:05 PM
no flip, deedub has a pause button and the instincts to know what each player is thinking/doing.

it's like magic.

Dee Dub
09-12-2011, 06:09 PM
hey chief, the game is pretty fast.

just because you can slow-mo a DVR doesn't make you a coach.

take a break.

Dude whats your problem?

Take a look at that replay. Watch what Mendenhall does and tell me that is just because of the speed of the game. If you are not looking the ball in on the hand off there's a good chance you will lose it. And that is exactly what happens. He never had his hands on the ball and despite how fast Ngata got in he had time to to secure the ball had he been not looking directly at Ngata.

But I guess with your theory then NFL coaches shouldn't bother with game film either because it doesn't accurately portray the speed of the game???

Dee Dub
09-12-2011, 06:11 PM
why are you torturing yourself rewatching this?

ngata was on mendy before he got the ball and he never got the ball cleanly.

No he wasnt. Watch the play again. He had been given the ball before Ngata hit him.

Eddie Spaghetti
09-12-2011, 06:13 PM
i'm saying that football plays don't happen in a vacuum.

guards get blown up, eyes get averted, footballs hit the ground.

you are grabbing at shadows. have fun with that.

winwithd
09-12-2011, 06:15 PM
my first reaction to the replay was that Ben should not have even tried to hand the ball off when the defender was getting there practically the same time as the ball. Did Ben not see Ngata coming? I realize that things happen real fast. I thought it was partly on Ben for not being a good handoff.

Dee Dub
09-12-2011, 06:15 PM
no flip, deedub has a pause button and the instincts to know what each player is thinking/doing.

it's like magic.

Wow!!! I wont get into the back and forth with you Eddie. Coaches watch game film all the time to slow it down piece by piece to see what game speed doesnt afford you. And this is where mistakes are found and how corrections are made. Regardless though, if RB's eyes are on the defender about to hit him right before the ball is handed off to him that is a recipe for disaster.

Peace. God is good.....all the time.

RuthlessBurgher
09-12-2011, 06:19 PM
i'm saying that football plays don't happen in a vacuum.

guards get blown up, eyes get averted, footballs hit the ground.

you are grabbing at shadows. have fun with that.

Well, when there are studly male cheerleaders out there tempting you all game long, I can see how eyes could easily be averted. :lol:

http://photos.triblive.com/photos/PITT/1319869/37671005E.jpg

Dee Dub
09-12-2011, 06:19 PM
i'm saying that football plays don't happen in a vacuum.

guards get blown up, eyes get averted, footballs hit the ground.

you are grabbing at shadows. have fun with that.

OK..so in the last two meaningful games the Steelers have played Mendenhall has been hit hard and fumbled.

Cool.

Captain Lemming
09-12-2011, 06:39 PM
[quote="Eddie Spaghetti":3o5zqhp0]i'm saying that football plays don't happen in a vacuum.

guards get blown up, eyes get averted, footballs hit the ground.

you are grabbing at shadows. have fun with that.

OK..so in the last two meaningful games the Steelers have played Mendenhall has been hit hard and fumbled.

Cool.[/quote:3o5zqhp0]

True. But why can't you admit that similarly, in the last two meaningful games the Steelers have played Ben played poorly too.

I agree with you Mendenhall's fault on the fumble.

But using your "its everybody's fault but Ben" logic the fumble would be the lines fault for allowing Ngata to penetrate so quickly.

Dee Dub
09-12-2011, 06:53 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":1qn0kzlq][quote="Eddie Spaghetti":1qn0kzlq]i'm saying that football plays don't happen in a vacuum.

guards get blown up, eyes get averted, footballs hit the ground.

you are grabbing at shadows. have fun with that.

OK..so in the last two meaningful games the Steelers have played Mendenhall has been hit hard and fumbled.

Cool.[/quote:1qn0kzlq]

True. But why can't you admit that similarly, in the last two meaningful games the Steelers have played Ben played poorly too.

I agree with you Mendenhall's fault on the fumble.

But using your "its everybody's fault but Ben" logic the fumble would be the lines fault for allowing Ngata to penetrate so quickly.[/quote:1qn0kzlq]

Maui where did I ever say Ben didnt play well?? Saying that the majority of yesterdays loss falls on the Steelers defense isnt saying that Ben played well.

I think maybe you should re-read what I have written??

Let me me say it loud and clear Ben did not play well yesterday. Perspective is saying that all his picks occurred after the scores was 21-7.

Captain Lemming
09-12-2011, 07:11 PM
[quote="Captain Lemming":2afp8z5j][quote="Dee Dub":2afp8z5j][quote="Eddie Spaghetti":2afp8z5j]i'm saying that football plays don't happen in a vacuum.

guards get blown up, eyes get averted, footballs hit the ground.

you are grabbing at shadows. have fun with that.

OK..so in the last two meaningful games the Steelers have played Mendenhall has been hit hard and fumbled.

Cool.[/quote:2afp8z5j]

True. But why can't you admit that similarly, in the last two meaningful games the Steelers have played Ben played poorly too.

I agree with you Mendenhall's fault on the fumble.

But using your "its everybody's fault but Ben" logic the fumble would be the lines fault for allowing Ngata to penetrate so quickly.[/quote:2afp8z5j]

Maui where did I ever say Ben didnt play well?? Saying that the majority of yesterdays loss falls on the Steelers defense isnt saying that Ben played well.

I think maybe you should re-read what I have written??

Let me me say it loud and clear Ben did not play well yesterday. Perspective is saying that all his picks occurred after the scores was 21-7.[/quote:2afp8z5j]

Correct, and thank you for clarifying, but true "perspective" knows that Ben's fumble contributed directly to the 21-7.....oh wait, you addressed that fumble. YOU BLAMED IT ON THE LINE!

I said the above before EVEN KNOWING that YOU LITERALLY USED the "lines fault for the fumble" logic to defend Ben that I describe above.


I dont know how you can call someone careless with the football when they are looking away (down field), for a receiver to get open and then gets hit from the side by one of the games best defensive players. Dont you think the O-line is more responsible for that turn over than Ben is?

Nearly all facets of the game contributed to the loss. No need to shield anyone from blame.

hawaiiansteel
09-12-2011, 07:25 PM
on Mendy's fumble where Ngata blew him up, I'm gonna blame that one on the OL...more specifically, Doug Legursky.

seriously, you can't let a beast like Ngata just run into your backfield untouched and not expect bad things to happen.

http://photos.triblive.com/photos/PITT/1319869/37670841E.jpg

Dee Dub
09-12-2011, 07:40 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":pnphyb6s][quote="Captain Lemming":pnphyb6s][quote="Dee Dub":pnphyb6s][quote="Eddie Spaghetti":pnphyb6s]i'm saying that football plays don't happen in a vacuum.

guards get blown up, eyes get averted, footballs hit the ground.

you are grabbing at shadows. have fun with that.

OK..so in the last two meaningful games the Steelers have played Mendenhall has been hit hard and fumbled.

Cool.[/quote:pnphyb6s]

True. But why can't you admit that similarly, in the last two meaningful games the Steelers have played Ben played poorly too.

I agree with you Mendenhall's fault on the fumble.

But using your "its everybody's fault but Ben" logic the fumble would be the lines fault for allowing Ngata to penetrate so quickly.[/quote:pnphyb6s]

Maui where did I ever say Ben didnt play well?? Saying that the majority of yesterdays loss falls on the Steelers defense isnt saying that Ben played well.

I think maybe you should re-read what I have written??

Let me me say it loud and clear Ben did not play well yesterday. Perspective is saying that all his picks occurred after the scores was 21-7.[/quote:pnphyb6s]

Correct, and thank you for clarifying, but true "perspective" knows that Ben's fumble contributed directly to the 21-7.....oh wait, you addressed that fumble. YOU BLAMED IT ON THE LINE!

I said the above before EVEN KNOWING that YOU LITERALLY USED the "lines fault for the fumble" logic to defend Ben that I describe above.


I dont know how you can call someone careless with the football when they are looking away (down field), for a receiver to get open and then gets hit from the side by one of the games best defensive players. Dont you think the O-line is more responsible for that turn over than Ben is?

Nearly all facets of the game contributed to the loss. No need to shield anyone from blame.[/quote:pnphyb6s]

I dont think I am shielding anyone for their bad play. But I see a bigger picture. I stand by my statement that Ben's fumble should be more on the O-line for giving up the sack/hit that resulted in that fumble. It wasnt like Ben was running down the field with the football. He was in the pocketing looking down the field.

And I agree....all facets of the game contributed to the loss yesterday.

NorCal-Steeler
09-12-2011, 07:54 PM
Mendy blows period..... the fault of the fumble is his for removing eyes off the ball. That being said it was still going to get blown up and probably fumbled either way. My problem with Mendy is not just his fumbles but his stopping of momentum to try and cut directions and loseing yards when he should just fall forward for no gain or short gain. Seems to me he has many carries for loss of yards before he gets a good one. His spin move makes me sick every time i see the ball out away from body. When his contract is up i will be suprised if they resign him.

steelblood
09-12-2011, 07:59 PM
[quote="Eddie Spaghetti":3flh4osy]i'm saying that football plays don't happen in a vacuum.

guards get blown up, eyes get averted, footballs hit the ground.

you are grabbing at shadows. have fun with that.

OK..so in the last two meaningful games the Steelers have played Mendenhall has been hit hard and fumbled.

Cool.[/quote:3flh4osy]

And, on both of those plays Legursky and D. Johnson missed assignments or whiffed on blocks.

Do not go out in a thunderstorm with Mendenhall, Johnson, and Legursky. :wink:

Steelerphile
09-12-2011, 08:48 PM
Mendenhall does not have a fumbling problem. That is a complete myth. He fumbled twice in 2010 and three times in 2009. That is about the lowest fumble per carry average in the NFL.

Why would he not look up if a huge man is about 2 steps away and running at a high rate of speed and having bad intentions?

It's ridiculous to blame Mendenhall for that fumble. Legursky completely neglected to block Ngata, who was basically right in front of him.

NWNewell
09-12-2011, 08:59 PM
and I gotta tell you....his eyes were never on the the ball. He is fixed on Ngata all the way. As a result he does not take the hand off cleanly. CBS shows a replay from the defensive side of the play and you can clearly see Mendy's eyes fixed on Ngata the whole time. Yes I know he's about to get hit hard by a beast of a man but he has got to stop fumbling the ball just because he gets hit hard. This, like the one on the Super Bowl, is all on him.

His eyes should NEVER be on the ball. It is the QB's job to put the ball in the gut where it needs to be and the RB secures the ball by feel. The whole time the RB is suppose to be reading the blocking and looking for the seem.

Watch any RB's eyes at the take the hand off. They never look it in. They are not taught to.

Ben did not put the ball where it need to be. The line gave Mendenhall not time to recover and secure the ball. Perhaps he should have been able to recover and secure the ball, but I'd argue that Mendenhall is the least to fault for that TO. To me, it's on Ben first and foremost.

DukieBoy
09-12-2011, 09:14 PM
Mendenhall does not have a fumbling problem. That is a complete myth. He fumbled twice in 2010 and three times in 2009. That is about the lowest fumble per carry average in the NFL.

Why would he not look up if a huge man is about 2 steps away and running at a high rate of speed and having bad intentions?

It's ridiculous to blame Mendenhall for that fumble. Legursky completely neglected to block Ngata, who was basically right in front of him.


X2

DukieBoy
09-12-2011, 09:17 PM
and I gotta tell you....his eyes were never on the the ball. He is fixed on Ngata all the way. As a result he does not take the hand off cleanly. CBS shows a replay from the defensive side of the play and you can clearly see Mendy's eyes fixed on Ngata the whole time. Yes I know he's about to get hit hard by a beast of a man but he has got to stop fumbling the ball just because he gets hit hard. This, like the one on the Super Bowl, is all on him.

His eyes should NEVER be on the ball. It is the QB's job to put the ball in the gut where it needs to be and the RB secures the ball by feel. The whole time the RB is suppose to be reading the blocking and looking for the seem.

Watch any RB's eyes at the take the hand off. They never look it in. They are not taught to.

Ben did not put the ball where it need to be. The line gave Mendenhall not time to recover and secure the ball. Perhaps he should have been able to recover and secure the ball, but I'd argue that Mendenhall is the least to fault for that TO. To me, it's on Ben first and foremost.

Truth.

feltdizz
09-12-2011, 10:06 PM
Nothing but the truth. I was taught to look for the hole and when the QB would stick it in your gut you clamp down.

NorCal-Steeler
09-12-2011, 10:27 PM
2 fumbles in last 2 games is not a Myth... :stirpot

fezziwig
09-12-2011, 10:32 PM
I don't beleive it's Mendenhalls fault or not his all alone.

Bad snap, handed off a little too high if I recall.


Also, backs and QB's practice the handoff a good bit or at least they did when we played ball in school. It's second nature to these guys to expect the ball in one location when handed to them. Mendy and running backs as far as I know are always looking at the defense as soon as the ball is snapped. Many of the good backs will tell you prior to the first defensive guy they encounter they, are looking past them in preparation of eluding the second tier of defense.

Maybe someone could have blocked or impeded Ngata just a pinch.

Tell you the truth, I would love to have Ngata on our team.

flippy
09-12-2011, 10:57 PM
[youtube:1v2ppnzi]OcQzWMywcQY[/youtube:1v2ppnzi]

Here it is. After rewatching, it looks like it was Pouncey's fault to me.

Pouncey looks to have messed up the snap count and surprised Ben with the ball. Ngata goes on the snap. This why Legursky wasn't ready either and completely missed Ngata because he was probably waiting for the right snap count as well. Legursky's waiting on the right snap count to move and if the center screws up the snap, no Olineman has a chance against Ngata because he's keying in on the ball moving.

And as far as the handoff goes, Ben didn't have control of the ball. Didn't put it cleanly in Mendy's breadbasket. And if you watch Ben's head, he flinched a little bit when Ben was looking at Ngata and as a result Ben moved the ball up into Mendy's shoulder at the last second.

After watching that a second time, it's clear, it's mostly Pouncey's fault and a little Ben's fault. That's not on Mendy. And it's definitely not on Legursky who was waiting on the snap count to make his first move.

Looks like we all remembered it wrong. But if you rewatch, it's clear as day the snap was the issue.

hawaiiansteel
09-13-2011, 02:39 AM
After futher review …

September 12th, 2011
by Mark Kaboly

* The first play of the second half when Rashard Mendenhall fumbled after a crushing hit by Ngata, the entire problem with this play started when Pouncey had trouble identifying the ‘Mike’ linebacker.

Pouncey then appeared to snap the ball early that caused the chaos.

I am not going to sit here and pretend like I am smart enough to absolutely know whose fault it was, but if I was guessing, I’d say that David Johnson was responsible for blocking Ngata.

However, the overall blame I’d say would have to be put on Pouncey. There’s no question his early snap is what caused all the confusion in the first place.

http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/201 ... 9k.twitter (http://blog.triblive.com/steel-mill/2011/09/12/after-futher-review/#.Tm6GUhZU19k.twitter)

Jooser
09-13-2011, 06:52 AM
[quote="Eddie Spaghetti":13c1b9hy]i'm saying that football plays don't happen in a vacuum.

guards get blown up, eyes get averted, footballs hit the ground.

you are grabbing at shadows. have fun with that.

OK..so in the last two meaningful games the Steelers have played Mendenhall has been hit hard and fumbled.

Cool.[/quote:13c1b9hy]

You can't pin this one on Mendy. First off, I played a lot of football in my time, and RB was one position I played a lot of. That was a piss poor handoff by Ben, up in the chest area, backs are trained to take the ball in the bread basket (and QBs are practice placing it there), eyes and head up looking for your first move. It's the QB's job to put the ball in the right spot, and the RBs job to clamp his arms and take it. It's really that simple. The ball was handed off under the ol' chin strap and Mendy's eyes were where they are supposed to be....up and looking for a place to run. That's why QBs and RBs practice handoffs, to get down the proper timing and placement of the football.

Ghost
09-13-2011, 07:48 AM
Thanks for posting this Flippy!

I don't think it was Legursky. He clearly has a helmet on someone and there was no hesitation on the direction he was going. It's David Johnson that was responsible for blocking Ngata and he didn't do it. In fact, he runs straight ahead and doesn't touch a single Raven.

Bad snap and handle, but if Ngata gets even chipped that's not a fumble.

papillon
09-13-2011, 08:06 AM
Thanks for posting this Flippy!

I don't think it was Legursky. He clearly has a helmet on someone and there was no hesitation on the direction he was going. It's David Johnson that was responsible for blocking Ngata and he didn't do it. In fact, he runs straight ahead and doesn't touch a single Raven.

Bad snap and handle, but if Ngata gets even chipped that's not a fumble.

If Johnson was supposed to block Ngata, then the following question immediately comes to mind.

Why on God's green earth would we assign David Johnson to block the best DT in the NFL? Is it possible that Johnson and Legursky were supposed to double team Ngata? Johnson vs Ngata on a run play, that's a losing scenarion every f***ing time.

Pappy

Stewie
09-13-2011, 08:15 AM
I may be old school, but I was taught that the RB should not be looking at the ball. It's the QB's responsibility to place it in the basket. The RB should be looking at the D.

Oviedo
09-13-2011, 08:15 AM
[youtube:x6wny96i]OcQzWMywcQY[/youtube:x6wny96i]

Here it is. After rewatching, it looks like it was Pouncey's fault to me.

Pouncey looks to have messed up the snap count and surprised Ben with the ball. Ngata goes on the snap. This why Legursky wasn't ready either and completely missed Ngata because he was probably waiting for the right snap count as well. Legursky's waiting on the right snap count to move and if the center screws up the snap, no Olineman has a chance against Ngata because he's keying in on the ball moving.

And as far as the handoff goes, Ben didn't have control of the ball. Didn't put it cleanly in Mendy's breadbasket. And if you watch Ben's head, he flinched a little bit when Ben was looking at Ngata and as a result Ben moved the ball up into Mendy's shoulder at the last second.

After watching that a second time, it's clear, it's mostly Pouncey's fault and a little Ben's fault. That's not on Mendy. And it's definitely not on Legursky who was waiting on the snap count to make his first move.

Looks like we all remembered it wrong. But if you rewatch, it's clear as day the snap was the issue.

You saw the exact same thing that I saw. The snap count was screwed up and Ben wasn't expecting the ball. Legursky probably hesitated but Ngata was watch the ball and as soon as it moved he exploded through the line.

SteelTorch
09-13-2011, 08:41 AM
Let me me say it loud and clear Ben did not play well yesterday. Perspective is saying that all his picks occurred after the scores was 21-7.
You've spouted this line all week like a friggin' parrot. I'll say it one more time: THAT IS NO EXCUSE! Playing from behind does not excuse poor play, and even down 21-7, you can still come back.

feltdizz
09-13-2011, 08:50 AM
Let me me say it loud and clear Ben did not play well yesterday. Perspective is saying that all his picks occurred after the scores was 21-7.
You've spouted this line all week like a friggin' parrot. I'll say it one more time: THAT IS NO EXCUSE! Playing from behind does not excuse poor play, and even down 21-7, you can still come back.

:Agree

grotonsteel
09-13-2011, 11:12 AM
[youtube:1gi8vtfl]OcQzWMywcQY[/youtube:1gi8vtfl]

Here it is. After rewatching, it looks like it was Pouncey's fault to me.

Pouncey looks to have messed up the snap count and surprised Ben with the ball. Ngata goes on the snap. This why Legursky wasn't ready either and completely missed Ngata because he was probably waiting for the right snap count as well. Legursky's waiting on the right snap count to move and if the center screws up the snap, no Olineman has a chance against Ngata because he's keying in on the ball moving.

And as far as the handoff goes, Ben didn't have control of the ball. Didn't put it cleanly in Mendy's breadbasket. And if you watch Ben's head, he flinched a little bit when Ben was looking at Ngata and as a result Ben moved the ball up into Mendy's shoulder at the last second.

After watching that a second time, it's clear, it's mostly Pouncey's fault and a little Ben's fault. That's not on Mendy. And it's definitely not on Legursky who was waiting on the snap count to make his first move.

Looks like we all remembered it wrong. But if you rewatch, it's clear as day the snap was the issue.

You saw the exact same thing that I saw. The snap count was screwed up and Ben wasn't expecting the ball. Legursky probably hesitated but Ngata was watch the ball and as soon as it moved he exploded through the line.

I blame Pouncey and Doug. O-line had a horrible game.

dsmith
09-13-2011, 12:06 PM
I may be old school, but I was taught that the RB should not be looking at the ball. It's the QB's responsibility to place it in the basket. The RB should be looking at the D.

This has been mentioned twice now and is exactly what I thought when I read the OP. There is not a running back at any level that should be watching the ball be placed in his hands, even at Pop Warner. Perhaps the OP is confusing a receiver and a runner? I think with slow motion replays and pause buttons, viewers don't appreciate the real speed of the game. People seem to think that the running back has time to watch the ball be placed in his hands, rotate it so the NFL logo is showing, dust it off, securely tuck it and then look up to see where to run.

I don't mind blaming Mendy for things that are on him, in particular his double, triple and so on moves, but to blame this fumble on Mendenhall is just idiotic.

Dee Dub
09-13-2011, 12:29 PM
Let me me say it loud and clear Ben did not play well yesterday. Perspective is saying that all his picks occurred after the scores was 21-7.
You've spouted this line all week like a friggin' parrot. I'll say it one more time: THAT IS NO EXCUSE! Playing from behind does not excuse poor play, and even down 21-7, you can still come back.

Yeah but your portrayal isnt the whole story. I said this in response to those who came out and tried to blame Ben for this loss. And some alluded to his 3 picks. My contention was that the game was pretty much a loss before Ben even threw a pick.

I think Ben played bad. And I am not excusing his play.

Example...the pick that Reed made that was intended to Miller was a great play by Ben but a horrible throw. Reed was on the outside of the right hash mark while Miller was at the left hash mark. In fact Reed was actually going away from Miller. A strong throw and Reed never comes close. But Ben floated it and allowed Reed was able to come back and make a play on the throw.

Dee Dub
09-13-2011, 12:39 PM
I may be old school, but I was taught that the RB should not be looking at the ball. It's the QB's responsibility to place it in the basket. The RB should be looking at the D.

This has been mentioned twice now and is exactly what I thought when I read the OP. There is not a running back at any level that should be watching the ball be placed in his hands, even at Pop Warner. Perhaps the OP is confusing a receiver and a runner? I think with slow motion replays and pause buttons, viewers don't appreciate the real speed of the game. People seem to think that the running back has time to watch the ball be placed in his hands, rotate it so the NFL logo is showing, dust it off, securely tuck it and then look up to see where to run.

I don't mind blaming Mendy for things that are on him, in particular his double, triple and so on moves, but to blame this fumble on Mendenhall is just idiotic.

I dont give Mendenhall all the blame...but he is at fault for fumbling the ball. The O-line didnt do their job (blocking Ngata), Ben and Pouncey had problems with the snap that led to a delay in getting Mendy the ball, but Mendy still should have held on to the ball. Regardless of whether you are going to get blown up or not you need to make sure the ball is secure. Football is a game of getting hit..especially for a RB. It's going to happen. But you still need to secure the ball and not turn it over. And you can actually look the ball in with out really looking the ball in if you know what I mean. Mendy was totally fixed on Ngata and as a result he never took the hand off the way he should have.

And how one would think this train of thought is idiotic is beyond me...(I have played for a lot of coaches who feel this way).

It's like excusing Kyle Orton for losing the ball in the rain last night. Yes it was wet. Yes the ball was slippery. But this game is played in the rain and ball security is a must.

dsmith
09-13-2011, 01:06 PM
And how one would think this train of thought is idiotic is beyond me...(I have played for a lot of coaches who feel this way).



Yeah, that was uncalled for to be honest. It just feels that people are trying to blame this game on one person. This was a total team beat down from start to finish and I would not excuse anyone from blame.

I have honestly never heard any coach want the running back to watch the ball into his stomach. I am not saying that it may not happen, but it does not seem prudent and I would imagine if you slow motion watch most hand-offs in the NFL you would see most if not all running backs eyes on the defense when they are getting the ball.

If your point is similar to that if an NFL receiver can touch a ball, he should catch it and if a running back gets the ball he should not fumble it, I can see your point. I don't agree with it in this case, but I do at least understand that line of reasoning.

sd steel
09-13-2011, 01:22 PM
I coach running backs, and I played running back for 10+ years, and you never look the ball in to your belly. Mendenhall's eyes are exactly where they should be on the hole he was running, where Ngata was. A missed blocking assignment caused the fumble period. For a football guy I would expect DeeDub to know that it was not the back's fault. The play was blown up before it started and instead of blaming someone we would be better served admitting that Ngata anticipated the count and made a great play to cause a fumble.

Snatch98
09-13-2011, 01:28 PM
Blowing up the board with a WHOLE bunch of chicken little BS. Switch teams already. It's clear you'd do a better job in the front office or on the side line. I haven't read beyond the first few posts so I'm guessing this has been addressed further as it was already addressed once. Watching the reply of the Mendenhall fumble DOESN'T show just how quickly Ngata was on top of Mendenhall. In slow motion it looks like he's preoccupied with Ngata as evidenced by your comical breakdown. However at game speed Ben bobbles the hand off, quickly try to hand it to Rashard and Ngata is on top of him. CLEARLY Mendenhall's fault lol.

Dee Dub
09-13-2011, 01:44 PM
I coach running backs, and I played running back for 10+ years, and you never look the ball in to your belly. Mendenhall's eyes are exactly where they should be on the hole he was running, where Ngata was. A missed blocking assignment caused the fumble period. For a football guy I would expect DeeDub to know that it was not the back's fault. The play was blown up before it started and instead of blaming someone we would be better served admitting that Ngata anticipated the count and made a great play to cause a fumble.

Ok we agree to disagree. I am old school and am from the thought that you never fumble the ball no matter what.

And a RB looking the ball in isnt the same as a baseball infielder looking a baseball into his glove/stomach. But you have to use your peripherals to see/know where the ball is being given. Mendenhall had no idea where the hand-off was and as a result it squirts up the right side of his chest pad before Ngata ever hits him. Myself? I have a problem with that.

And again..I admit that there was more blame to go around for this than just on Mendenhall.

Dee Dub
09-13-2011, 01:49 PM
Blowing up the board with a WHOLE bunch of chicken little BS. Switch teams already. It's clear you'd do a better job in the front office or on the side line. I haven't read beyond the first few posts so I'm guessing this has been addressed further as it was already addressed once. Watching the reply of the Mendenhall fumble DOESN'T show just how quickly Ngata was on top of Mendenhall. In slow motion it looks like he's preoccupied with Ngata as evidenced by your comical breakdown. However at game speed Ben bobbles the hand off, quickly try to hand it to Rashard and Ngata is on top of him. CLEARLY Mendenhall's fault lol.


Wow!! What a nice guy. I hope the Lord does for you what he has done for me.

This is one of the ugly things about this board. A man has an opinion (whether right or wrong), and he is attacked and told to switch teams. Wow!!

Lord thank you for taking that bitterness out of me. Praise be to you.

sd steel
09-13-2011, 02:09 PM
[quote="sd steel":b2xrahfc]I coach running backs, and I played running back for 10+ years, and you never look the ball in to your belly. Mendenhall's eyes are exactly where they should be on the hole he was running, where Ngata was. A missed blocking assignment caused the fumble period. For a football guy I would expect DeeDub to know that it was not the back's fault. The play was blown up before it started and instead of blaming someone we would be better served admitting that Ngata anticipated the count and made a great play to cause a fumble.

Ok we agree to disagree. I am old school and am from the thought that you never fumble the ball no matter what.

And a RB looking the ball in isnt the same as a baseball infielder looking a baseball into his glove/stomach. But you have to use your peripherals to see/know where the ball is being given. Mendenhall had no idea where the hand-off was and as a result it squirts up the right side of his chest pad before Ngata ever hits him. Myself? I have a problem with that.

And again..I admit that there was more blame to go around for this than just on Mendenhall.[/quote:b2xrahfc]

You cant be responsible for the fumble if you never had possesion of the ball to begin with. Ben didn't put the ball in his belly, he never had possesion, then he gets crushed....crappy play, but it wasn't on Mendehall at all. If you are old school and never allow a fumble then the beef is with Ben, he is the last person with possesion.

feltdizz
09-13-2011, 02:22 PM
Lord thank you for taking that bitterness out of me. Praise be to you.

:nono you've been bitter with Mendenhall since the fumble.

Dee Dub
09-13-2011, 02:33 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":2bio5hjx][quote="sd steel":2bio5hjx]I coach running backs, and I played running back for 10+ years, and you never look the ball in to your belly. Mendenhall's eyes are exactly where they should be on the hole he was running, where Ngata was. A missed blocking assignment caused the fumble period. For a football guy I would expect DeeDub to know that it was not the back's fault. The play was blown up before it started and instead of blaming someone we would be better served admitting that Ngata anticipated the count and made a great play to cause a fumble.

Ok we agree to disagree. I am old school and am from the thought that you never fumble the ball no matter what.

And a RB looking the ball in isnt the same as a baseball infielder looking a baseball into his glove/stomach. But you have to use your peripherals to see/know where the ball is being given. Mendenhall had no idea where the hand-off was and as a result it squirts up the right side of his chest pad before Ngata ever hits him. Myself? I have a problem with that.

And again..I admit that there was more blame to go around for this than just on Mendenhall.[/quote:2bio5hjx]

You cant be responsible for the fumble if you never had possesion of the ball to begin with. Ben didn't put the ball in his belly, he never had possesion, then he gets crushed....crappy play, but it wasn't on Mendehall at all. If you are old school and never allow a fumble then the beef is with Ben, he is the last person with possesion.[/quote:2bio5hjx]

Now I disagree with this. I just replayed the fumble again and it was clearly a good hand-off by Ben. Yes Ben did nearly fumble the snap and was a little late in getting the ball to Mendy but it was delivered correctly to Mendy. Mendy lets the ball squirt threw his hands and up the right side of his chest pad before Ngata hit him. And you can hear Phil Simms say..."he fumbled it before he got hit".

sd steel
09-13-2011, 02:59 PM
[quote="sd steel":3tqnqw51][quote="Dee Dub":3tqnqw51][quote="sd steel":3tqnqw51]I coach running backs, and I played running back for 10+ years, and you never look the ball in to your belly. Mendenhall's eyes are exactly where they should be on the hole he was running, where Ngata was. A missed blocking assignment caused the fumble period. For a football guy I would expect DeeDub to know that it was not the back's fault. The play was blown up before it started and instead of blaming someone we would be better served admitting that Ngata anticipated the count and made a great play to cause a fumble.

Ok we agree to disagree. I am old school and am from the thought that you never fumble the ball no matter what.

And a RB looking the ball in isnt the same as a baseball infielder looking a baseball into his glove/stomach. But you have to use your peripherals to see/know where the ball is being given. Mendenhall had no idea where the hand-off was and as a result it squirts up the right side of his chest pad before Ngata ever hits him. Myself? I have a problem with that.

And again..I admit that there was more blame to go around for this than just on Mendenhall.[/quote:3tqnqw51]

You cant be responsible for the fumble if you never had possesion of the ball to begin with. Ben didn't put the ball in his belly, he never had possesion, then he gets crushed....crappy play, but it wasn't on Mendehall at all. If you are old school and never allow a fumble then the beef is with Ben, he is the last person with possesion.[/quote:3tqnqw51]

Now I disagree with this. I just replayed the fumble again and it was clearly a good hand-off by Ben. Yes Ben did nearly fumble the snap and was a little late in getting the ball to Mendy but it was delivered correctly to Mendy. Mendy lets the ball squirt threw his hands and up the right side of his chest pad before Ngata hit him. And you can hear Phil Simms say..."he fumbled it before he got hit".[/quote:3tqnqw51]

I coach QB/ RB exchanges everyday DW, the QB is not to let go of the ball until it is secured by the running back. Mendenhall never secures the ball, Ben puts it on his chest and lets it go. Poor fundamentals period....and not Mendy's fault.

BradshawsHairdresser
09-13-2011, 03:21 PM
The problems started with Pouncey when he snapped too soon...But when Ben sees that Ngata is right there, why doesn't Ben just hold on to the ball at that point? Admittedly, he only has a split-second to make that decision...seems to me he should have just kept it himself in order to maintain possession.

BackwoodsSteeler
09-13-2011, 03:28 PM
The snap was early...it messed up the timing of everything.

Fault lies with Pounce.

Snatch98
09-13-2011, 05:10 PM
Blowing up the board with a WHOLE bunch of chicken little BS. Switch teams already. It's clear you'd do a better job in the front office or on the side line. I haven't read beyond the first few posts so I'm guessing this has been addressed further as it was already addressed once. Watching the reply of the Mendenhall fumble DOESN'T show just how quickly Ngata was on top of Mendenhall. In slow motion it looks like he's preoccupied with Ngata as evidenced by your comical breakdown. However at game speed Ben bobbles the hand off, quickly try to hand it to Rashard and Ngata is on top of him. CLEARLY Mendenhall's fault lol.


Wow!! What a nice guy. I hope the Lord does for you what he has done for me.

This is one of the ugly things about this board. A man has an opinion (whether right or wrong), and he is attacked and told to switch teams. Wow!!

Lord thank you for taking that bitterness out of me. Praise be to you.

Comical. It's one thing to have a opinion, you were/are on a soap box. You don't have to look any further than this thread and the Darren McFadden thread. You're certainly entitled to your opinion seeing as this message board lives and dies on opinions. However are heinously wrong on the Mendenhall/Ngata fumble and have been proven wrong several times. I just don't like to see blind criticism, especially criticism fueled by snap judgments and over the top solutions. My switch teams reaction was also a bit dramatic but I assumed it would be taken in that fashion.

Dee Dub
09-13-2011, 06:28 PM
Blowing up the board with a WHOLE bunch of chicken little BS. Switch teams already. It's clear you'd do a better job in the front office or on the side line. I haven't read beyond the first few posts so I'm guessing this has been addressed further as it was already addressed once. Watching the reply of the Mendenhall fumble DOESN'T show just how quickly Ngata was on top of Mendenhall. In slow motion it looks like he's preoccupied with Ngata as evidenced by your comical breakdown. However at game speed Ben bobbles the hand off, quickly try to hand it to Rashard and Ngata is on top of him. CLEARLY Mendenhall's fault lol.


Wow!! What a nice guy. I hope the Lord does for you what he has done for me.

This is one of the ugly things about this board. A man has an opinion (whether right or wrong), and he is attacked and told to switch teams. Wow!!

Lord thank you for taking that bitterness out of me. Praise be to you.

Comical. It's one thing to have a opinion, you were/are on a soap box. You don't have to look any further than this thread and the Darren McFadden thread. You're certainly entitled to your opinion seeing as this message board lives and dies on opinions. However are heinously wrong on the Mendenhall/Ngata fumble and have been proven wrong several times. I just don't like to see blind criticism, especially criticism fueled by snap judgments and over the top solutions. My switch teams reaction was also a bit dramatic but I assumed it would be taken in that fashion.


Ok snatch I understand. No harm on my part. Sorry if I gave you that impression (soap box), I can assure you that it wasnt my intention. I apologize if I came across as such. I just love talkin football. I dont understand about the Darren McFadden comment though??? Most everyone here knows how pro-Mendenhall I am. I caught a ton of heat at the Trib website for my insisting that Mendy should start from day one over Willie Parker.
I am a big supporter of him and am glad he is our back...but as I said I still think he is as much responsible for this fumble as Pouncey, Ben, and Legursky are.

But I get it. You have issue with me. I will bow out. I pray for you my brother. Little tedious things like this should not get to one where the need to be so critical of others. I was once like that. I gave it to the Lord an am free of that. I pray the same for you.

Take care.

Snatch98
09-13-2011, 09:30 PM
[quote=Snatch98]Blowing up the board with a WHOLE bunch of chicken little BS. Switch teams already. It's clear you'd do a better job in the front office or on the side line. I haven't read beyond the first few posts so I'm guessing this has been addressed further as it was already addressed once. Watching the reply of the Mendenhall fumble DOESN'T show just how quickly Ngata was on top of Mendenhall. In slow motion it looks like he's preoccupied with Ngata as evidenced by your comical breakdown. However at game speed Ben bobbles the hand off, quickly try to hand it to Rashard and Ngata is on top of him. CLEARLY Mendenhall's fault lol.


Wow!! What a nice guy. I hope the Lord does for you what he has done for me.

This is one of the ugly things about this board. A man has an opinion (whether right or wrong), and he is attacked and told to switch teams. Wow!!

Lord thank you for taking that bitterness out of me. Praise be to you.

Comical. It's one thing to have a opinion, you were/are on a soap box. You don't have to look any further than this thread and the Darren McFadden thread. You're certainly entitled to your opinion seeing as this message board lives and dies on opinions. However are heinously wrong on the Mendenhall/Ngata fumble and have been proven wrong several times. I just don't like to see blind criticism, especially criticism fueled by snap judgments and over the top solutions. My switch teams reaction was also a bit dramatic but I assumed it would be taken in that fashion.




But I get it. You have issue with me. I will bow out. I pray for you my brother. Little tedious things like this should not get to one where the need to be so critical of others. I was once like that. I gave it to the Lord an am free of that. I pray the same for you.

Take care.[/quote:1tpgjj9c]

I see you chose to take the dramatic approach. I have no real problem with you or anyone else on this site. We certainly have a few drama queens and "rabble rousers" if you will but beyond that this place is a wealth of information and discussion. I place absolutely ZERO blame on Mendenhall for that fumble, play it at full speed and you'll see why. Ngata was on top of Rashard before he could even THINK of taking that hand off clean. You certainly don't see that watching in in slow mo on your DVR.

As far as the McFadden comment is concerned you started the other thread about Mcfadden and his burst through holes. Rashard right now isn't getting those holes and he certainly didn't get them last night. When the hole is there the man is hitting them and hitting them with authority. His dancing and shifting is a way to make holes. I'm assuming you started that thread because you were unhappy with Rashard and clearly impressed with McFadden.

The problem we have with the Steelers is we've almost routinely drafted towards the bottom of each round and by then offensive lineman worth grabbing are long gone. Pouncey needs some help at guard and Mendenhall will get the holes like Mcfadden received last night. You also need to realize the Broncos are PUTRID against the run and Rashard went up against one of the best d-lines in the league. Ngata may be the best d-line in the entire NFL. I personally think he is...

No harm no foul dee dub. I just hate the chicken little sh.it, especially after the first week of the season. I'm glad that beating happened week one and not week 10.

SteelTorch
09-13-2011, 09:55 PM
[quote="Dee Dub":4l8yyfch]

Let me me say it loud and clear Ben did not play well yesterday. Perspective is saying that all his picks occurred after the scores was 21-7.
You've spouted this line all week like a friggin' parrot. I'll say it one more time: THAT IS NO EXCUSE! Playing from behind does not excuse poor play, and even down 21-7, you can still come back.

Yeah but your portrayal isnt the whole story. I said this in response to those who came out and tried to blame Ben for this loss. And some alluded to his 3 picks. My contention was that the game was pretty much a loss before Ben even threw a pick.

I think Ben played bad. And I am not excusing his play.

Example...the pick that Reed made that was intended to Miller was a great play by Ben but a horrible throw. Reed was on the outside of the right hash mark while Miller was at the left hash mark. In fact Reed was actually going away from Miller. A strong throw and Reed never comes close. But Ben floated it and allowed Reed was able to come back and make a play on the throw.[/quote:4l8yyfch]
And I'm telling you the game as NOT a loss before Ben threw a pick. 21-7 is not a foregone loss, even after the first half. By the way, he DID turn over the ball by way of a fumble when the Ravens were up a mere 7-0, and that led directly to another TD. So yes, he does share some blame.

Everything you've said up to this point about Ben's performance was that it was "okay" because we were losing. I'm telling you it's not.

Slapstick
09-14-2011, 03:06 PM
Incidentally, it looks like Legursky comes off the ball and immediately goes to the 2nd level...

It looks like Johnson comes over to the space Ngata already blew through and looks for somebody to block...

I'm not sure that run would have gone anywhere if Pouncey hadn't f'd the snap count...

But, he did...and that's where all the trouble began on that play...it was like the perfect storm of crap...

DukieBoy
09-14-2011, 06:21 PM
Incidentally, it looks like Legursky comes off the ball and immediately goes to the 2nd level...

It looks like Johnson comes over to the space Ngata already blew through and looks for somebody to block...

I'm not sure that run would have gone anywhere if Pouncey hadn't f'd the snap count...

But, he did...and that's where all the trouble began on that play...it was like the perfect storm of crap...

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Maybe the Ravens slipped some Go Lightly or Fleet into the Steelers' gatorade.

birtikidis
09-14-2011, 06:35 PM
Incidentally, it looks like Legursky comes off the ball and immediately goes to the 2nd level...

It looks like Johnson comes over to the space Ngata already blew through and looks for somebody to block...

I'm not sure that run would have gone anywhere if Pouncey hadn't f'd the snap count...

But, he did...and that's where all the trouble began on that play...it was like the perfect storm of crap...
I've been talking about this play all week. It really looks to me like it's "trap" and legs chipped ngata and went to the second level. Either kemo or DJ were supposed to clear him out of there. they didn't. as bad as i thought legs played, i really don't think this one was his fault.

Dee Dub
09-14-2011, 06:52 PM
Incidentally, it looks like Legursky comes off the ball and immediately goes to the 2nd level...

It looks like Johnson comes over to the space Ngata already blew through and looks for somebody to block...

I'm not sure that run would have gone anywhere if Pouncey hadn't f'd the snap count...

But, he did...and that's where all the trouble began on that play...it was like the perfect storm of crap...

I agree with this...and I have never once argued that this was all Mendy's fault. It was a chain of events no doubt...but the fact is the fact...Mendy fumbles before he ever got hit by Ngata. And I state his focus was more on getting hit by Ngata than securing the ball.

Dee Dub
09-14-2011, 06:53 PM
Incidentally, it looks like Legursky comes off the ball and immediately goes to the 2nd level...

It looks like Johnson comes over to the space Ngata already blew through and looks for somebody to block...

I'm not sure that run would have gone anywhere if Pouncey hadn't f'd the snap count...

But, he did...and that's where all the trouble began on that play...it was like the perfect storm of crap...

I agree with this...and I have never once argued that this was all Mendy's fault. It was a chain of events no doubt...but the fact is the fact...Mendy fumbles before he ever got hit by Ngata. And I state his focus was more on getting hit by Ngata than securing the ball.

hawaiiansteel
09-14-2011, 07:09 PM
but the fact is the fact...Mendy fumbles before he ever got hit by Ngata.


does this look like Mendy has already fumbled the ball?

http://photos.triblive.com/photos/PITT/1319869/37670834E.jpg

feltdizz
09-14-2011, 07:19 PM
That's some bull####. Pouncey screwed up the snap, Ben never had control of the ball and Mend never had a chance to secure the hand off
Dub, you really need to let it go, you keep blaming Mend like he was lax with the football.

Ben should have ate that but it really doesn't matter. That fumble didn't turn the game or change momentum. Nothing Mend could have done to stop that fumble.

Ngata is a big guy and anytime a guy that size hits a RB during a hand off exchange it will result in a fumble.

BradshawsHairdresser
09-14-2011, 07:43 PM
Let's give Ngata credit for making a big play. Him and Suggs are players I'd love to have on our team...

Dee Dub
09-14-2011, 08:00 PM
but the fact is the fact...Mendy fumbles before he ever got hit by Ngata.


does this look like Mendy has already fumbled the ball?

http://photos.triblive.com/photos/PITT/1319869/37670834E.jpg

That picture isnt an accurate account. If you watch the CBS replay you will see the ball starting to squirt out before he ever got hit. And Phil Simms even makes a comment about it.

Sorry....I love Mendy...but I am sticking to my guns on this one. I challenge any of you you have the game taped to watch it again.

NorCal-Steeler
09-14-2011, 10:02 PM
i think he saw the #92 and had a flashback of #52 breaking his collar bone....
If his grip was a tight as his arsehole he would have held that ball...