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BradshawsHairdresser
09-11-2011, 06:19 PM
...old and slow.

Oviedo
09-11-2011, 06:23 PM
I also call it stuck in the mud and unwilling to change. You don't think Curtis Brown could cover better than McFadden and Gay did today. But wait he hasn't mastered the complexities of the defense yet. The only people we fooled with our complex defense was ourselves.

Get use to it because we are going to see teams spreading us out all year and we will continue to see Bmac and Gay failing to cover WRs.

feltdizz
09-11-2011, 06:25 PM
Why is McFadden starting? He was standing on the sideline all preseason. He isn't up to speed.

The lack of confidence in our youth is frustrating

Oviedo
09-11-2011, 06:30 PM
Why is McFadden starting? He was standing on the sideline all preseason. He isn't up to speed.

The lack of confidence in our youth is frustrating

Don't question "the LeBeau Way"

mshifko
09-11-2011, 07:16 PM
i don't see how bmac played that bad today. he had good coverage on that first TD pass. a few times he played outside containment and evidently didn't have any underneath coverage. he wasn't horrific. gay is a whole other issue, wouldn't mind seeing keenan get more reps.

the one player that stuck out for me as to getting blown off the ball and being a blocking pad, was aaron smith. looked bad today. whether it was an off day or a sign of things to come, we will see.

flippy
09-11-2011, 07:20 PM
i don't see how bmac played that bad today. he had good coverage on that first TD pass. a few times he played outside containment and evidently didn't have any underneath coverage. he wasn't horrific. gay is a whole other issue, wouldn't mind seeing keenan get more reps.

the one player that stuck out for me as to getting blown off the ball and being a blocking pad, was aaron smith. looked bad today. whether it was an off day or a sign of things to come, we will see.

+1, thought bmac was fine. and smitty looks done.

Steelhere10
09-11-2011, 07:21 PM
the one player that stuck out for me as to getting blown off the ball and being a blocking pad, was aaron smith. looked bad today. whether it was an off day or a sign of things to come, we will see. Don't leave Keisel off the list, the Ravens made it a point to run at him.

mshifko
09-11-2011, 07:22 PM
the one player that stuck out for me as to getting blown off the ball and being a blocking pad, was aaron smith. looked bad today. whether it was an off day or a sign of things to come, we will see. Don't leave Keisel off the list, the Ravens made it a point to run at him.
true. honestly, this is why we drafted ziggy hood and cameron heyward. the age i worry about is our DE's. i don't think they're done however. this was only one game.

pittpete
09-11-2011, 08:17 PM
BMac wasnt terrible, but Gay continues to show no coverage skills what so ever.

Oh, & I agree with O.P.
old and slow,said it myself today before I shut that garbage off in the middle of the 4th quarter

Dee Dub
09-11-2011, 08:33 PM
i don't see how bmac played that bad today. he had good coverage on that first TD pass. a few times he played outside containment and evidently didn't have any underneath coverage. he wasn't horrific. gay is a whole other issue, wouldn't mind seeing keenan get more reps.

the one player that stuck out for me as to getting blown off the ball and being a blocking pad, was aaron smith. looked bad today. whether it was an off day or a sign of things to come, we will see.

As a defensive back you dont win anything for having good coverage but yet allow the receiver to one catch the ball and two score a TD.

You have failed. Period. Ask any defensive back.

I want a corner who can shut down the opposite receiver more times than not....and make a play himself on the ball. Is that asking too much?

You will never ever get that from McFadden, Gay, or Clark. And that's 3 of 4 starters in the Steeler secondary.

RuthlessBurgher
09-11-2011, 09:39 PM
I also call it stuck in the mud and unwilling to change. You don't think Curtis Brown could cover better than McFadden and Gay did today. But wait he hasn't mastered the complexities of the defense yet. The only people we fooled with our complex defense was ourselves.

Get use to it because we are going to see teams spreading us out all year and we will continue to see Bmac and Gay failing to cover WRs.

Yeah...starting a rookie 3rd round pick who had no OTA's, no minicamps, and was injured for a significant portion of training camp...that would have made the difference. :roll:

Djfan
09-11-2011, 10:22 PM
I thought that we would regret the Crez Butler cut.

Chadman
09-11-2011, 10:55 PM
The Sky!!

It is falling on our heads!!!


Dear, oh dear....and we laugh at other teams messege boards when they go into meltdown after a loss...

RuthlessBurgher
09-11-2011, 11:05 PM
The Sky!!

It is falling on our heads!!!


Dear, oh dear....and we laugh at other teams messege boards when they go into meltdown after a loss...

The sky has already fallen up here in the Northern Hemisphere. Apparently, it hasn't made its way down to the Southern Hemisphere yet. :wink:

http://www.truedogblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/chickenlittle.jpg

fordfixer
09-12-2011, 01:23 AM
Madden: Steelers defense shows its age
http://www.timesonline.com/sports/local ... 7a0b0.html (http://www.timesonline.com/sports/local_sports/madden-steelers-defense-shows-its-age/article_98e38f31-60c0-5e98-8e95-589144b7a0b0.html)


Doug Kapustin/Baltimore Sun
STEELERS VS. RAVENS
http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/timesonline.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/2/36/23630235-2d58-50c7-ac03-58d12022eaf0/4e6d4f0c4c3ea.preview-300.jpg
Steelers coach Mike Tomlin, defensive end Cameron Heyward and defensive back Troy Polamalu (43) have little to smile about on their sidelines during the second half Sunday.

Posted: Sunday, September 11, 2011 11:45 pm | Updated: 9:00 pm, Sun Sep 11, 2011.

By Mark Madden Special to The Times | 0 comments

I knew some of the Steelers' defenders were old.

But I never thought they would all turn to dust at the same time.

Everybody in Pittsburgh colors shoulders some blame in the wake of Sunday's 35-7 mauling at the hands of host Baltimore, not the least quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, who turned the ball over five times.

But defense is supposed to be the Steelers' anchor, the team's foundation. Eight defenders are 30 or older, with cornerback Bryant McFadden hitting that milestone come November. But experience counts, right?

Uh, right?

A lot of guys got paid on defense recently. But few earned their money at Baltimore as the Ravens gashed the Steelers badly. Ray Rice rushed for 107 yards, Ricky Williams for 63 more behind a slapdash offensive line. At the half, Rice had more offensive yards than the Steelers, 127-113.

The Steelers have allowed a 100-yard rusher just twice in 51 games, Rice both times. That's a testament to his ability and desire.

But that club figures to become much less exclusive, and in short order. The Steelers' defense got roasted statistically, and it didn't pass the eye test, either. Too much inertia. Standing around, to use layman's terms.

Lawrence Timmons had 12 tackles. But many were made far up the field as he too often overran the play. But at least Timmons hustled. Few did.

Pressure on Baltimore quarterback Joe Flacco was absolutely minimal. LaMarr Woodley didn't get the Steelers' only sack until the first play of the fourth quarter. Flacco had oodles of time as he stood behind an offensive line that had never played together as a unit before.

The defense didn't limit itself to conventional embarrassment. Ike Taylor somehow found the motivation to run his mouth in the middle of all that humiliation, touching off a scrum that saw even Troy Polamalu get involved. When Polamalu loses his head, rest assured stupidity rules the day.

The Steelers won the toss and elected to put their defense on the field. Maybe that sort of decision-making has grown old along with the defense, especially since Baltimore went 66 yards on three plays to go up 7-0. Too easy.

The Steelers' offense was no better. The offensive line got no push. Doug Legursky's size killed him. Haloti Ngata manhandled him as scheme dictated. Roethlisberger was under siege and made poor decisions when he wasn't. Hines Ward couldn't get open until garbage time.

This is a pretty thorough excoriation based on just one game. But the damage inflicted figures to go beyond yesterday. The Ravens won't feel like the Steelers' whipping boys anytime soon. Baltimore's veterans ran around and made plays all day: Ed Reed had two interceptions, Ray Lewis one.

The criticism will only get worse. The Steelers' age on defense will be a constant topic. When the Steelers played in the Super Bowl in 2006 and 2009, they missed the playoffs the next season. Think that won't be discussed?

That's the price of pedigree. You're under a microscope when you're one of the NFL's most storied franchises. The Steelers need to deal with it, and probably will. But if yesterday causes pessimism to pour forth in the papers, on the Internet and on the talk shows, it's understandable.

The Steelers were every bit as bad as the score, probably worse.

The Steelers looked soft. When's the last time that was said?

SteelBucks
09-12-2011, 08:37 AM
i don't see how bmac played that bad today. he had good coverage on that first TD pass. a few times he played outside containment and evidently didn't have any underneath coverage. he wasn't horrific. gay is a whole other issue, wouldn't mind seeing keenan get more reps.

the one player that stuck out for me as to getting blown off the ball and being a blocking pad, was aaron smith. looked bad today. whether it was an off day or a sign of things to come, we will see.

I agree with you on McFadden. Any QB given the time that Flacco had can easily pick apart any NFL secondary.

Steeler Shades
09-12-2011, 09:18 AM
A lot of guys got paid on defense recently. But few earned their money at Baltimore as the Ravens gashed the Steelers badly.
True 'dat. 8)

Oviedo
09-12-2011, 10:21 AM
I also call it stuck in the mud and unwilling to change. You don't think Curtis Brown could cover better than McFadden and Gay did today. But wait he hasn't mastered the complexities of the defense yet. The only people we fooled with our complex defense was ourselves.

Get use to it because we are going to see teams spreading us out all year and we will continue to see Bmac and Gay failing to cover WRs.

Yeah...starting a rookie 3rd round pick who had no OTA's, no minicamps, and was injured for a significant portion of training camp...that would have made the difference. :roll:

We won't know because when our DBs were getting embarassed Brown was still sitting on the sideline wasn't he. Every other team seems to be able to get younger, more athletic players on the field as rookies but we would rather have less talented, less athletic but more knowledgeable players.

Did you happen to notice who the Ravens started at CB? Rookie and a player with one career start. They missed all the same OTAs our players did but they probably don't have to deal with a "complex" scheme either.

Perhaps for the purpose of discussion on this board I am overly critical of the "LeBeau way." But heck Ruthless you are way too knowledgeable to keep denying we have serious problems on our defense with the business as usual approach.

papillon
09-12-2011, 10:32 AM
I also call it stuck in the mud and unwilling to change. You don't think Curtis Brown could cover better than McFadden and Gay did today. But wait he hasn't mastered the complexities of the defense yet. The only people we fooled with our complex defense was ourselves.

Get use to it because we are going to see teams spreading us out all year and we will continue to see Bmac and Gay failing to cover WRs.

Yeah...starting a rookie 3rd round pick who had no OTA's, no minicamps, and was injured for a significant portion of training camp...that would have made the difference. :roll:

We won't know because when our DBs were getting embarassed Brown was still sitting on the sideline wasn't he. Every other team seems to be able to get younger, more athletic players on the field as rookies but we would rather have less talented, less athletic but more knowledgeable players.

Did you happen to notice who the Ravens started at CB? Rookie and a player with one career start. They missed all the same OTAs our players did but they probably don't have to deal with a "complex" scheme either.

Perhaps for the purpose of discussion on this board I am overly critical of the "LeBeau way." But heck Ruthless you are way too knowledgeable to keep denying we have serious problems on our defense with the business as usual approach.

The only cornerback on the Steeler not getting torched yesterday was Ike. The rest, regardless, of who it was were going to get torched, because, Bryant McKinnie handled Harrison and Oher made Woodley his little girl. Flacco had zero pressure and could stand and scan the field on almost every drop back. The Steeler pass rush was non-existent and Taylor is the only CB that can cover for more than 3 seconds.

You're right though that we have no idea if Allen, Brown or Lewis can cover because they were on the bench with Tomlin and Lebeau. There isn't a coach in the world that is going to overhaul his defense after one game, because, it was an ugly loss.

Pappy

Oviedo
09-12-2011, 10:52 AM
James Harrison was a shodow of himself yesterday. Fat, out of shape McKinnie manhandled him and they ran right at him. Harrison is clearly not right and unless Woodley picks it up we are in for a long season.

Did anyone see a single time where either Timmons or Farrior were sent on an inside blitz???? I don't recall seeing one.

Jooser
09-12-2011, 11:50 AM
Madden: Steelers defense shows its age
http://www.timesonline.com/sports/local ... 7a0b0.html (http://www.timesonline.com/sports/local_sports/madden-steelers-defense-shows-its-age/article_98e38f31-60c0-5e98-8e95-589144b7a0b0.html)


Doug Kapustin/Baltimore Sun
STEELERS VS. RAVENS
http://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/timesonline.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/2/36/23630235-2d58-50c7-ac03-58d12022eaf0/4e6d4f0c4c3ea.preview-300.jpg
Steelers coach Mike Tomlin, defensive end Cameron Heyward and defensive back Troy Polamalu (43) have little to smile about on their sidelines during the second half Sunday.

Posted: Sunday, September 11, 2011 11:45 pm | Updated: 9:00 pm, Sun Sep 11, 2011.

By Mark Madden Special to The Times | 0 comments

I knew some of the Steelers' defenders were old.

But I never thought they would all turn to dust at the same time.

Everybody in Pittsburgh colors shoulders some blame in the wake of Sunday's 35-7 mauling at the hands of host Baltimore, not the least quarterback Ben Roethlisberger, who turned the ball over five times.

But defense is supposed to be the Steelers' anchor, the team's foundation. Eight defenders are 30 or older, with cornerback Bryant McFadden hitting that milestone come November. But experience counts, right?

Uh, right?

A lot of guys got paid on defense recently. But few earned their money at Baltimore as the Ravens gashed the Steelers badly. Ray Rice rushed for 107 yards, Ricky Williams for 63 more behind a slapdash offensive line. At the half, Rice had more offensive yards than the Steelers, 127-113.

The Steelers have allowed a 100-yard rusher just twice in 51 games, Rice both times. That's a testament to his ability and desire.

But that club figures to become much less exclusive, and in short order. The Steelers' defense got roasted statistically, and it didn't pass the eye test, either. Too much inertia. Standing around, to use layman's terms.

Lawrence Timmons had 12 tackles. But many were made far up the field as he too often overran the play. But at least Timmons hustled. Few did.

Pressure on Baltimore quarterback Joe Flacco was absolutely minimal. LaMarr Woodley didn't get the Steelers' only sack until the first play of the fourth quarter. Flacco had oodles of time as he stood behind an offensive line that had never played together as a unit before.

The defense didn't limit itself to conventional embarrassment. Ike Taylor somehow found the motivation to run his mouth in the middle of all that humiliation, touching off a scrum that saw even Troy Polamalu get involved. When Polamalu loses his head, rest assured stupidity rules the day.

The Steelers won the toss and elected to put their defense on the field. Maybe that sort of decision-making has grown old along with the defense, especially since Baltimore went 66 yards on three plays to go up 7-0. Too easy.

The Steelers' offense was no better. The offensive line got no push. Doug Legursky's size killed him. Haloti Ngata manhandled him as scheme dictated. Roethlisberger was under siege and made poor decisions when he wasn't. Hines Ward couldn't get open until garbage time.

This is a pretty thorough excoriation based on just one game. But the damage inflicted figures to go beyond yesterday. The Ravens won't feel like the Steelers' whipping boys anytime soon. Baltimore's veterans ran around and made plays all day: Ed Reed had two interceptions, Ray Lewis one.

The criticism will only get worse. The Steelers' age on defense will be a constant topic. When the Steelers played in the Super Bowl in 2006 and 2009, they missed the playoffs the next season. Think that won't be discussed?

That's the price of pedigree. You're under a microscope when you're one of the NFL's most storied franchises. The Steelers need to deal with it, and probably will. But if yesterday causes pessimism to pour forth in the papers, on the Internet and on the talk shows, it's understandable.

The Steelers were every bit as bad as the score, probably worse.

The Steelers looked soft. When's the last time that was said?

For once I agree with Madden....

RuthlessBurgher
09-12-2011, 12:30 PM
I also call it stuck in the mud and unwilling to change. You don't think Curtis Brown could cover better than McFadden and Gay did today. But wait he hasn't mastered the complexities of the defense yet. The only people we fooled with our complex defense was ourselves.

Get use to it because we are going to see teams spreading us out all year and we will continue to see Bmac and Gay failing to cover WRs.

Yeah...starting a rookie 3rd round pick who had no OTA's, no minicamps, and was injured for a significant portion of training camp...that would have made the difference. :roll:

We won't know because when our DBs were getting embarassed Brown was still sitting on the sideline wasn't he. Every other team seems to be able to get younger, more athletic players on the field as rookies but we would rather have less talented, less athletic but more knowledgeable players.

Did you happen to notice who the Ravens started at CB? Rookie and a player with one career start. They missed all the same OTAs our players did but they probably don't have to deal with a "complex" scheme either.

Perhaps for the purpose of discussion on this board I am overly critical of the "LeBeau way." But heck Ruthless you are way too knowledgeable to keep denying we have serious problems on our defense with the business as usual approach.

This is Cary Williams' 4th year in the league. He may have had only one start, but he's played in 23 games for the Titans and Ravens before yesterday. And rookie Jimmy Smith was hurt on his first play, so he was not a factor. Don't forget about Ravens' veteran DB's Lardarius Webb and Domonique Foxworth and Chris Carr.

Steeler Shades
09-12-2011, 01:47 PM
The only cornerback on the Steeler not getting torched yesterday was Ike. The rest, regardless, of who it was were going to get torched, because, Bryant McKinnie handled Harrison and Oher made Woodley his little girl. Flacco had zero pressure and could stand and scan the field on almost every drop back. The Steeler pass rush was non-existent and Taylor is the only CB that can cover for more than 3 seconds.
Couldn't agree more with the above. IMHO it will be easier (and quicker) for us to find ways of pressuring the QB in future games than it will be to suddenly change LeBeau's coverage schemes. This secondary (other than Ike) is NOT good enough, and the defensive scheme is not designed to give good QBs time to leisurely find receivers. Without pressure on the QB even mediocre QBs will eventually find open receivers in our secondary. Flacco...IMHO...is better than mediocre. 8)

BradshawsHairdresser
09-12-2011, 02:10 PM
James Harrison was a shodow of himself yesterday. Fat, out of shape McKinnie manhandled him and they ran right at him. Harrison is clearly not right and unless Woodley picks it up we are in for a long season.



Granted, his game was subpar, but I thought Harrison played the best out of all the linebackers.

papillon
09-12-2011, 03:30 PM
James Harrison was a shodow of himself yesterday. Fat, out of shape McKinnie manhandled him and they ran right at him. Harrison is clearly not right and unless Woodley picks it up we are in for a long season.



Granted, his game was subpar, but I thought Harrison played the best out of all the linebackers.

Harrison was the best of the linebackers and he's not 100% healthy either, that gives you a little measure of the man and football player he is. He looked gassed at times though.

Pappy

Northern_Blitz
09-12-2011, 03:38 PM
Here's an interesting observation from http://www.postgameheroes.com


13. The Ravens had 6 scoring drives. 4 of them started in Steeler territory. This is why I don’t want to hear the “defense is getting old” excuse. You will hear that all week I’m sure. Is our defense to blame for coughing up the ball 7 times on offense? The Ravens scored a TD on a drive that covered 37 yards. Then another TD on a drive that covered 18 yards. Then added on a FG after going for -3 yards on 3 plays. They gained 52 yards and walked away with 17 points. Can’t blame the defense for this one. They were not good, don’t get me wrong, but they shouldn’t shoulder the blame.


Fact is you're not going to win when you turn the ball over 7 times.

papillon
09-12-2011, 03:46 PM
Here's an interesting observation from http://www.postgameheroes.com


13. The Ravens had 6 scoring drives. 4 of them started in Steeler territory. This is why I don’t want to hear the “defense is getting old” excuse. You will hear that all week I’m sure. Is our defense to blame for coughing up the ball 7 times on offense? The Ravens scored a TD on a drive that covered 37 yards. Then another TD on a drive that covered 18 yards. Then added on a FG after going for -3 yards on 3 plays. They gained 52 yards and walked away with 17 points. Can’t blame the defense for this one. They were not good, don’t get me wrong, but they shouldn’t shoulder the blame.


Fact is you're not going to win when you turn the ball over 7 times.

This is very true, but you expect your defense to put up a little resistance and they didn't. The first drive was 3 plays and the second scoring drive was 4 plays, regardless of how far they had to travel, that isn't resistance.

The defense was bad as was the offense.

Pappy

BradshawsHairdresser
09-12-2011, 05:00 PM
Here's an interesting observation from http://www.postgameheroes.com


13. The Ravens had 6 scoring drives. 4 of them started in Steeler territory. This is why I don’t want to hear the “defense is getting old” excuse. You will hear that all week I’m sure. Is our defense to blame for coughing up the ball 7 times on offense? The Ravens scored a TD on a drive that covered 37 yards. Then another TD on a drive that covered 18 yards. Then added on a FG after going for -3 yards on 3 plays. They gained 52 yards and walked away with 17 points. Can’t blame the defense for this one. They were not good, don’t get me wrong, but they shouldn’t shoulder the blame.


Fact is you're not going to win when you turn the ball over 7 times.

This is very true, but you expect your defense to put up a little resistance and they didn't. The first drive was 3 plays and the second scoring drive was 4 plays, regardless of how far they had to travel, that isn't resistance.

The defense was bad as was the offense.

Pappy

$$$
It was pretty much an entire-team stinker.

Northern_Blitz
09-12-2011, 08:18 PM
Here's an interesting observation from http://www.postgameheroes.com


13. The Ravens had 6 scoring drives. 4 of them started in Steeler territory. This is why I don’t want to hear the “defense is getting old” excuse. You will hear that all week I’m sure. Is our defense to blame for coughing up the ball 7 times on offense? The Ravens scored a TD on a drive that covered 37 yards. Then another TD on a drive that covered 18 yards. Then added on a FG after going for -3 yards on 3 plays. They gained 52 yards and walked away with 17 points. Can’t blame the defense for this one. They were not good, don’t get me wrong, but they shouldn’t shoulder the blame.


Fact is you're not going to win when you turn the ball over 7 times.

This is very true, but you expect your defense to put up a little resistance and they didn't. The first drive was 3 plays and the second scoring drive was 4 plays, regardless of how far they had to travel, that isn't resistance.

The defense was bad as was the offense.

Pappy

I agree. But it does seem like the O is getting a pass from some. Just trying to point out that we sucked on both sides of the ball. And that poor offence hurts the defence (bad starting field position), just like poor D hurts the O (increased pressure to score, need to scrap balance).