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flippy
08-26-2011, 02:47 PM
How many more years do these guys have left in your opinion?

Hines - 5 years. He was old and slow when he entered the league. And he didn't have an ACL so we know he's bionic. Plus he sleeps in the bariatric chamber which will keep him young.
Farrior - 5 years. I just have a feeling Posty's gonna play after 40.
Smitty - 1 year. His crazy injuries scare me.
Harrison - 9 years. I have a feeling he's gonna play at an older age than Farrior.
Keisel - 5 years. Another super human that I just don't see aging.
Casey - 2 years. He has to have knee problems cause of his size, right?
Troy - 10 years. Troy's gonna hit 40 and still be playing for sure. Cause Troy at half speed is still faster than everyone else on the football field.
Ike - 9 years. I see Ike being the same player in 9 years. He's got so much speed and athleticism, it's not gonna matter if he eventually loses a step.

So put me down as the only guys that don't make 5 years are Casey and Smitty.

I just have a feeling some of these guys are gonna last longer than we think.

CanadianSteel
08-26-2011, 03:09 PM
I think your not even close on many of them lol :(



Hines - 2 I just think that with our young WR he will see the writing on the wall
Farrior - 1 I have a feeling this may be his last year. MAY get one more out of him
Smitty - 2 Tough injures to overcome and again, so young and talented at DE
Harrison - 4 but really depends on his back, this year will tell alot about Debo
Keisel - 4 May not be starting for the next 4 years, but is still in his prime
Casey - 2 Getting up there, will be tough to replace
Troy - 4 hate saying it, but he may never be healthy for a full year ever again :(
Ike - 4 Speed is so important for Ike, when he loses that, he will struggle





Just my opinion......

SMASHMOUTHFOOTBALL
08-26-2011, 03:11 PM
How many more years do these guys have left in your opinion?

Hines - 5 years. He was old and slow when he entered the league. And he didn't have an ACL so we know he's bionic. Plus he sleeps in the bariatric chamber which will keep him young.
Farrior - 5 years. I just have a feeling Posty's gonna play after 40.
Smitty - 1 year. His crazy injuries scare me.
Harrison - 9 years. I have a feeling he's gonna play at an older age than Farrior.
Keisel - 5 years. Another super human that I just don't see aging.
Casey - 2 years. He has to have knee problems cause of his size, right?
Troy - 10 years. Troy's gonna hit 40 and still be playing for sure. Cause Troy at half speed is still faster than everyone else on the football field.
Ike - 9 years. I see Ike being the same player in 9 years. He's got so much speed and athleticism, it's not gonna matter if he eventually loses a step.

So put me down as the only guys that don't make 5 years are Casey and Smitty.

I just have a feeling some of these guys are gonna last longer than we think.

Including this year, I think the following players have the following productive years left...

Hines--1 maybe 2

Farrior --1

Smitty --.6 (half the year)

Casey --2

Troy--4 The way he plays will eventually be his downfall.

Ike--4

Harrison--2 Back no easy to overcome

Keisal--4

RuthlessBurgher
08-26-2011, 03:22 PM
Hines - 5 years. He was old and slow when he entered the league. And he didn't have an ACL so we know he's bionic. Plus he sleeps in the bariatric chamber which will keep him young.

I think Max Starks, Casey Hampton, Trai Essex, Chris Kemoeatu, Jonathan Dwyer, etc. need to visit the bariatric chamber to treat their obesity. Meanwhile, Hines can continue to use his hyperbaric chamber. :wink:

flippy
08-26-2011, 03:52 PM
Hines - 5 years. He was old and slow when he entered the league. And he didn't have an ACL so we know he's bionic. Plus he sleeps in the bariatric chamber which will keep him young.

I think Max Starks, Casey Hampton, Trai Essex, Chris Kemoeatu, Jonathan Dwyer, etc. need to visit the bariatric chamber to treat their obesity. Meanwhile, Hines can continue to use his hyperbaric chamber. :wink:

I noticed I typed that accidentally but left it any way to see if anyone would catch it and have fun with it. Nice work :)

I have no idea what a bariatric chamber would even look like or do :)

Dee Dub
08-26-2011, 06:02 PM
This will be the last year for the following…

Hines Ward
Aaron Smith
James Farrior

D Rock
08-26-2011, 06:22 PM
Batch, Hines, Hoke, Farrior, and Smith will all be done by the end of next year.

Troy, Ike, Clark, Hampton, and Keisel could be around for up to 5 years or so. I bet Ike plays out his contract and then signs as a backup for another 1 or 2 years. Troy will get a new 4 year contract, play it out, then retire. Clark will play out this contract and then do a couple years somewhere else. Hampton will hang around with heavily decreased pay and playing time, or go somewhere else after his contract is up after next season. Keisel is signed for 3 years still. He might retire if the young guys are tearing it up by then, or stay around as a solid backup.

Eddie Spaghetti
08-26-2011, 06:40 PM
cmon flip.

you can't be serious.

Flasteel
08-26-2011, 08:06 PM
How many more years do these guys have left in your opinion?

Hines - 5 years. He was old and slow when he entered the league. And he didn't have an ACL so we know he's bionic. Plus he sleeps in the bariatric chamber which will keep him young.
Farrior - 5 years. I just have a feeling Posty's gonna play after 40.
Smitty - 1 year. His crazy injuries scare me.
Harrison - 9 years. I have a feeling he's gonna play at an older age than Farrior.
Keisel - 5 years. Another super human that I just don't see aging.
Casey - 2 years. He has to have knee problems cause of his size, right?
Troy - 10 years. Troy's gonna hit 40 and still be playing for sure. Cause Troy at half speed is still faster than everyone else on the football field.
Ike - 9 years. I see Ike being the same player in 9 years. He's got so much speed and athleticism, it's not gonna matter if he eventually loses a step.

So put me down as the only guys that don't make 5 years are Casey and Smitty.

I just have a feeling some of these guys are gonna last longer than we think.

WTF are you dipping your McNuggets into? :D

My guess is that Troy, Ike, and maybe Keisel will be the only ones from that list still here in three years (barring injury of course). No way Ike and Troy make it that long. Unfortunately, I don't think Harrison's back will hold up too much longer. The way he gets up underneath the pads of 330lb tackles has got to put a ton of stress on his back.

The better question might be to ask if the replacements for these guys are already on our roster.

flippy
08-26-2011, 08:42 PM
Dipping em in the bariatric chamber filled with honey mustard or something like that? :)

I know I'm being overly optimistic, but other than Hampton and Smitty, I'm not convinced the other guys are on the path of breaking down yet in line with their relative age.

Maybe some will fall apart suddenly, but I don't see it yet. Even Farrior who's one of the oldest seems just as good as he was 2 or 3 years ago. He's kinda stabalized despite his age.

BradshawsHairdresser
08-26-2011, 09:05 PM
Farrior's not as good as he was three years ago. He seemed to rebound a bit last season from a sub-par 2009, but I don't believe they dropped him into coverage near as much. You might be able to slow down father time, but only to a point...I'd guess this season and maybe next left for Potsie.

I don't know how bad Harrison's back is, but I think it's likely he plays no more than two or three seasons.

No way Troy plays 10 more years...that seems absurd given the way he throws his body around with reckless abandon. I'd guess 3 or 4 more years.

Ike will play out his contract--4 years. If he's still in good physical shape, he might be able to take a reserve role after that for another year or two.

Hines, Hampton, Hoke and Smith may all be gone after this season. If we don't win the Super Bowl, maybe Hines and Hampton come back for one more year.

Keisel? 4 more years seems about right...he'll probably be backing up Heyward in a year or two.

DukieBoy
08-26-2011, 09:32 PM
How many more years do these guys have left in your opinion?

Hines - 5 years. He was old and slow when he entered the league. And he didn't have an ACL so we know he's bionic. Plus he sleeps in the bariatric chamber which will keep him young.
Farrior - 5 years. I just have a feeling Posty's gonna play after 40.
Smitty - 1 year. His crazy injuries scare me.
Harrison - 9 years. I have a feeling he's gonna play at an older age than Farrior.
Keisel - 5 years. Another super human that I just don't see aging.
Casey - 2 years. He has to have knee problems cause of his size, right?
Troy - 10 years. Troy's gonna hit 40 and still be playing for sure. Cause Troy at half speed is still faster than everyone else on the football field.
Ike - 9 years. I see Ike being the same player in 9 years. He's got so much speed and athleticism, it's not gonna matter if he eventually loses a step.

So put me down as the only guys that don't make 5 years are Casey and Smitty.

I just have a feeling some of these guys are gonna last longer than we think.


Hines = 3, but should be 2 at most.
Farrior = 2, but should be 1 or 2.
Harrison = 2. Concerned for the back.
Smith = 1, Should be 2 to 3. An absolute stud. Most underappreciated Steeler.
Keisel = 3. Will be strong for 3.
Casey = 3. maybe 3.
Troy = 3. Maybe 4. Troy will not hang on when his skills diminish.
Ike = 8. Ike is in great shape, more like a 25 year old.

Eddie Spaghetti
08-26-2011, 10:32 PM
8 more years for ike?

c'mon man.

hines-1
farrior-1
smith-1
jimmy-2-3
kiesel-2-3
troy-4
ike-4
snack-2

Djfan
08-26-2011, 10:46 PM
Don't be surprised if Troy just quits one day. He'll finish the season he starts, but with tread still on the tires, he will just be done. He just seems like that kind of a guy.

Discipline of Steel
08-27-2011, 06:47 AM
Im suspecting its the last year for Aaron and Hines.

Potsie will likely give way to Sylvester after next season.

Not seeing the replacements on the roster for Snack or James Harrison yet, so give them both at least two more years.

What about Big Ben?

Captain Lemming
08-27-2011, 04:46 PM
Smith = 1, Should be 2 to 3. An absolute stud. Most underappreciated Steeler.

I always find it funny that MOST people say this, which pretty much invalidates the statement. :D

Frankly, I think he is over appreciated. :stirpot

Smith is an excellent player. However, Ive have seen his value compared on THIS BOARD to Joe Greene, which I debated with several people. That is ridiculous.

I was told

"in the 3-4 the lineman dont make plays because they are all double teamed which frees up the LBers to make plays."

It is said that without Smith our LBs get less sacks, they are not free to make tackles in the run game. They say our elite run defense is due to the fact that our Dline is great more than our LBers who get all the credit.

Yes, I know the "theory". But does the role of freeing up LBers require elite skills? Until Ziggy this team under Cowher NEVER used high draft picks on defensive ends (nose tackles do tend to have a bizzarre and rare combination of morbid obesity and quickness :)). Why did BC NEVER use premium picks on DEs if great talent is required for the job?

Truth Casey gets doubled often (center and a guard). Our ends rarely so. You want proof. At least one typically both of our outside Lbers is being blocked (held) by a tackle whenever they rush the QB. On MOST PLAYS our defensive ends are dealing with ONE GUARD period. There are simple not enough olinemen to double our d-ends routinely.

Now the big "proof" of how great our dline is the fact that our run defense is so good with our great dline freeing up the lbers to make play.

If that is the case, and if Smitty is so great, why did we have the best run defense in his career a year when Smitty was mostly injured? Is Ziggy the greatest dlineman ALREADY in the last two decades? Of course that is foolish.

The SOLE reason why our run game was improved last year was Timmons coming into his own.

It is the LINEBACKERS who must be elite in our defense to make it work. That is why we ROUTINELY give that position love in the draft.

As a final point to prove that defensive end play are not what makes our LBers great, Our best DE, Smith has typically played closest to our less productive outside LBer.

Porter played next to Kimo V. and later Keisel. Later Harrison plays on that same side next to Keisel as well.

For most of Smiths career he played closest to Haggins; later Woodley.

Was Kimo V better than Smith? If you judge a DE by the productivity of the LBer he impacts most, Kimo (next to Porter) was better than Smith (next to Haggins).

Smith get deserved props because he makes more plays himself than most 3-4 DEs. But no matter what it is hard to dominate from that position. That is why 3-4 defenses do not need great talent at that position.

Frankly, I cannot think of a single 3/4 DE selected in the first half of draft EVER (Richard Seymour was drafted when NE still ran the 4/3).

Again Smitty is an excellent 3-4 end
But he is not and has never been the "straw that stirs the drink" for this defense as some seem to think.

Slapstick
08-27-2011, 05:04 PM
Truth Casey gets doubled often (center and a guard). Our ends rarely so. You want proof. At least one typically both of our outside Lbers is being blocked (held) by a tackle whenever they rush the QB.

Really?

Because I see a lot of sacks by the OLBs where they are blocked by a TE or an RB that they destroy because the OTs are too busy with Smith or Keisel...

In the 3-4, especially LeBeau's 3-4, the DEs line up in a 5 technique, which is over the OT...

Slapstick
08-27-2011, 05:40 PM
Why did BC NEVER use premium picks on DEs if great talent is required for the job?

I have my own theories on this, but I honestly think it has something to do with LeBeau's impending retirement and a possible changeover to a 3-4 defense...but, that is a whole other discussion...


As a final point to prove that defensive end play are not what makes our LBers great, Our best DE, Smith has typically played closest to our less productive outside LBer.

Porter played next to Kimo V. and later Keisel. Later Harrison plays on that same side next to Keisel as well.

For most of Smiths career he played closest to Haggins; later Woodley.

Was Kimo V better than Smith? If you judge a DE by the productivity of the LBer he impacts most, Kimo (next to Porter) was better than Smith (next to Haggins).

Or, it is possible that almost every great pass rusher comes at the QB from the left of the offense (weak side)...

Smith is stationed on the right side of the offense (strong side)....have you given any thought to the possibility that the Steelers' run defense has been so good for so long because Smith has been plugging up that right side?


Frankly, I cannot think of a single 3/4 DE selected in the first half of draft EVER (Richard Seymour was drafted when NE still ran the 4/3).

Glenn Dorsey was drafted fifth overall in 2009...

flippy
08-27-2011, 07:40 PM
Some have also compared Richard Seymour to Joe Green in terms of dominance.

And Aaron Smith nearly has identical career stats as Richard Seymour while Seymour has had significantly more opportunities because of his system to go after the QB.

Smitty gets doubled quite often and can maintain the gap and stay alive to make a play. It's not entirely that Smitty frees up LBs to make plays as much as he is able to control his gap so well to be able to make plays or prevent plays from happening in his lane.

Dick Lebeau has said he's never seen Aaron Smith effectively blocked more that a handful of times over his career.

I usually agree with most everything the good Captain posts, but I differ a little with you on Smith. I've got him in my top 10 Steelers of all time. And it's unfortunate he's never had a legit shot at consistently making the Pro Bowl due to playing 3-4 DE when DE's are judged almost entirely on QB sacks in the modern era.

So you can argue he hasn't consistently been in Pro Bowls. But he's just not in a position that allows him to accumulate stats that get you into Pro Bowls.

Does that make him less of a player? In my eyes, no. He plays 3-4 DE better than anyone in the history of the position. I even think better than Seymour. Sure, Seymour has more flexibility in what he can do, but imho doesn't play the 3-4 DE position as well.

I've got Smitty in my all time top 10 Steelers.

Captain Lemming
08-27-2011, 07:55 PM
Truth Casey gets doubled often (center and a guard). Our ends rarely so. You want proof. At least one typically both of our outside Lbers is being blocked (held) by a tackle whenever they rush the QB.

Really?

Because I see a lot of sacks by the OLBs where they are blocked by a TE or an RB that they destroy because the OTs are too busy with Smith or Keisel...

In the 3-4, especially LeBeau's 3-4, the DEs line up in a 5 technique, which is over the OT...

I said "at least one typically both" That allows for plays that a tackle is not blocking one of the two. When it DOES HAPPEN it often results in a sack hit or hurry, which is why you notice.

If you "routinely" try to block both Harrison and Woodly just with TEs and RBs all day long YOU KNOW they would set a record for sacks EASY 50 between the two of them.

We ALL see in ALL THE TIME, Our outside guys locked up by tackles.

WHENEVER a tackle is interviewed he NEVER gets asked "how are you going to keep Smith or Keisel" in check. Thay are asked about our LBers. Nobody says "Thats the fullbacks job, I need to worry about Brett K"

Captain Lemming
08-27-2011, 09:15 PM
Why did BC NEVER use premium picks on DEs if great talent is required for the job?

I have my own theories on this, but I honestly think it has something to do with LeBeau's impending retirement and a possible changeover to a 3-4 defense...but, that is a whole other discussion...

So you make my case that D-Ends are more valuable to a 4-3?



As a final point to prove that defensive end play are not what makes our LBers great, Our best DE, Smith has typically played closest to our less productive outside LBer.

Porter played next to Kimo V. and later Keisel. Later Harrison plays on that same side next to Keisel as well.

For most of Smiths career he played closest to Haggins; later Woodley.

Was Kimo V better than Smith? If you judge a DE by the productivity of the LBer he impacts most, Kimo (next to Porter) was better than Smith (next to Haggins).

Or, it is possible that almost every great pass rusher comes at the QB from the left of the offense (weak side)...

Kevin Greene and Jason Gildon played Woodleys position. (BTW Gildon had a couple of very productive years next to a young Smith).

My point is that the quality of the LBer not the quality of the lineman he play next to determines the LBs productivity.


Smith is stationed on the right side of the offense (strong side)....have you given any thought to the possibility that the Steelers' run defense has been so good for so long because Smith has been plugging up that right side?

If that is your theory, Ziggy must have been better than Smith, since never in Smith's career has the run D been so good. But that is ridiculous.

THAT is why you cannot say just because the run defense is good we credit a single dlineman.



Frankly, I cannot think of a single 3/4 DE selected in the first half of draft EVER (Richard Seymour was drafted when NE still ran the 4/3).

Glenn Dorsey was drafted fifth overall in 2009...

Nice. Of course I said "I cannot think of one" There we have ONE.

I think my point remain valid :)

JTP53609
08-27-2011, 11:21 PM
How many more years do these guys have left in your opinion?

Hines - 5 years. He was old and slow when he entered the league. And he didn't have an ACL so we know he's bionic. Plus he sleeps in the bariatric chamber which will keep him young.
Farrior - 5 years. I just have a feeling Posty's gonna play after 40.
Smitty - 1 year. His crazy injuries scare me.
Harrison - 9 years. I have a feeling he's gonna play at an older age than Farrior.
Keisel - 5 years. Another super human that I just don't see aging.
Casey - 2 years. He has to have knee problems cause of his size, right?
Troy - 10 years. Troy's gonna hit 40 and still be playing for sure. Cause Troy at half speed is still faster than everyone else on the football field.
Ike - 9 years. I see Ike being the same player in 9 years. He's got so much speed and athleticism, it's not gonna matter if he eventually loses a step.

So put me down as the only guys that don't make 5 years are Casey and Smitty.

I just have a feeling some of these guys are gonna last longer than we think.


Flippman, I love and respect your knowledge, but I think you have been hitting the holiday egg nog way too early..

hines will retire after our next SB win, so that is this year
Farrior will follow hines
smith finishes this year
harrison will play 4 more years with 2 at a high level
hampton will play 2 more (although I thought he would be done 3 years ago, so what do i know)
keisel will get 2 more years
ike will play out his contract
BIG BEN WILL PLAY 15 more years at a high level....WE CAN WISH CANT WE

flippy
08-27-2011, 11:49 PM
gotta say after watching how quick hampton was tonight, he may outlast my prediction. his quickness surprised me a bit tonight.

RuthlessBurgher
08-28-2011, 03:14 AM
[quote="Captain Lemming":1ayqo9m8]Why did BC NEVER use premium picks on DEs if great talent is required for the job?

I have my own theories on this, but I honestly think it has something to do with LeBeau's impending retirement and a possible changeover to a 3-4 defense...but, that is a whole other discussion...

So you make my case that D-Ends are more valuable to a 4-3?



As a final point to prove that defensive end play are not what makes our LBers great, Our best DE, Smith has typically played closest to our less productive outside LBer.

Porter played next to Kimo V. and later Keisel. Later Harrison plays on that same side next to Keisel as well.

For most of Smiths career he played closest to Haggins; later Woodley.

Was Kimo V better than Smith? If you judge a DE by the productivity of the LBer he impacts most, Kimo (next to Porter) was better than Smith (next to Haggins).

Or, it is possible that almost every great pass rusher comes at the QB from the left of the offense (weak side)...

Kevin Greene and Jason Gildon played Woodleys position. (BTW Gildon had a couple of very productive years next to a young Smith).

My point is that the quality of the LBer not the quality of the lineman he play next to determines the LBs productivity.


Smith is stationed on the right side of the offense (strong side)....have you given any thought to the possibility that the Steelers' run defense has been so good for so long because Smith has been plugging up that right side?

If that is your theory, Ziggy must have been better than Smith, since never in Smith's career has the run D been so good. But that is ridiculous.

THAT is why you cannot say just because the run defense is good we credit a single dlineman.



Frankly, I cannot think of a single 3/4 DE selected in the first half of draft EVER (Richard Seymour was drafted when NE still ran the 4/3).

Glenn Dorsey was drafted fifth overall in 2009...

Nice. Of course I said "I cannot think of one" There we have ONE.

I think my point remain valid :)[/quote:1ayqo9m8]

Those same Chiefs also drafted Tyson Jackson 3rd overall to be a 3-4 DE a year after taking Dorsey 5th overall.

Slapstick
08-28-2011, 03:15 PM
[quote="Captain Lemming":1nzie9qt]Why did BC NEVER use premium picks on DEs if great talent is required for the job?

I have my own theories on this, but I honestly think it has something to do with LeBeau's impending retirement and a possible changeover to a 3-4 defense...but, that is a whole other discussion...

So you make my case that D-Ends are more valuable to a 4-3?[/quote:1nzie9qt]

No, just giving an opinion as to why the Steelers may be spending
first round picks on D-Linemen...


As a final point to prove that defensive end play are not what makes our LBers great, Our best DE, Smith has typically played closest to our less productive outside LBer.

Porter played next to Kimo V. and later Keisel. Later Harrison plays on that same side next to Keisel as well.

For most of Smiths career he played closest to Haggins; later Woodley.

Was Kimo V better than Smith? If you judge a DE by the productivity of the LBer he impacts most, Kimo (next to Porter) was better than Smith (next to Haggins).


Or, it is possible that almost every great pass rusher comes at the QB from the left of the offense (weak side)...


Kevin Greene and Jason Gildon played Woodleys position. (BTW Gildon had a couple of very productive years next to a young Smith).

My point is that the quality of the LBer not the quality of the lineman he play next to determines the LBs productivity.

Exactly...the better pass rushers usually line up on the left side...as I said...


Smith is stationed on the right side of the offense (strong side)....have you given any thought to the possibility that the Steelers' run defense has been so good for so long because Smith has been plugging up that right side?


If that is your theory, Ziggy must have been better than Smith, since never in Smith's career has the run D been so good. But that is ridiculous.

THAT is why you cannot say just because the run defense is good we credit a single dlineman.


Teams just give up on the run with the Steelers...the D-Line historically, Smith in particular, is a huge reason why...

The assignments between 3-4 and 4-3 DEs can be very different, depending on the defense...In LeBeau's 3-4, all of the D-Linemen are responsible for two gaps...in a 4-3, the DEs are responsible for one gap, which gives them more pass rushing opportunities and therefore more perceived importance...

Defense is an 11 man unit...every player needs to do their job in order for the scheme to succeed...in LeBeau's 3-4, CBs prevent the big play by playing 5-8 yards off the line while the D-Linemen stuff the run by controlling two gaps...Smith has been a rock on that D-Line for years...

Do you judge the value of a player by his stats? Or by how well he plays within the defensive unit?

Captain Lemming
08-28-2011, 06:01 PM
My point is that the quality of the LBer not the quality of the lineman he play next to determines the LBs productivity.

Exactly...the better pass rushers usually line up on the left side...as I said...

Let me break it down for you.

I said recent sack leaders Porter and Harrison do not line up on Smiths side. They are right outside linebackers. You reply that they play on the QBs left side. You say great pass rushers play that side.

I reply that sack leaders Greene and Gildon line up on the same side as Smith, which invalidates your earlier contention. They were left outside linebackers, by your reasoning they come from the QBs RIGHT. To be clear they play the OPPOSITE position as Porter and Harrison. Gildon and Porter even played together at one point.

They do not ALL play on the same side.

Great Steeler pass rushers have played BOTH olb positions. Smith's "greatness" has little to do with the quality of the pass rush on his side.


Teams just give up on the run with the Steelers...the D-Line historically, Smith in particular, is a huge reason why...

Pittburghs run D is always good. You are crediting Smith as a "huge reason" for this.

If this is true, Ziggy must already be better than Smith has EVER BEEN, since last years run defense WAS BETTER than any season in Smiths career. Not just total yards but yards per carry, which has nothing to do with "giving up" on the run.

I do not believe that Ziggy is better but if your point is that Smith's play is a HUGE REASON for run D success you MUST come to that conclusion.

I say the quality of the LB play is far more important.

I credit the growth of Timmons. How about you?


The assignments between 3-4 and 4-3 DEs can be very different, depending on the defense...In LeBeau's 3-4, all of the D-Linemen are responsible for two gaps...in a 4-3, the DEs are responsible for one gap, which gives them more pass rushing opportunities and therefore more perceived importance...

Dude nobody argues this. I never said jack about "sacks".

But I will make this general statement about 3/4 versus 4/3 DEs.

Because of the very difference you mention 3/4 DE as a position does not require the elite athleticism of 4/3 DEs. 4/3 defensive ends have greater responsibility as playmakers and ARE more important. That is why they are higher priority draft picks.


Defense is an 11 man unit...every player needs to do their job in order for the scheme to succeed...in LeBeau's 3-4, CBs prevent the big play by playing 5-8 yards off the line while the D-Linemen stuff the run by controlling two gaps...Smith has been a rock on that D-Line for years...

Smith does his job very well. He is an excellent 3/4 DE.

You can be the best pure blocking back in the league......but I will take a dozen running backs ahead of you.


Do you judge the value of a player by his stats? Or by how well he plays within the defensive unit?

I judge "the value" of a player by exactly the definition of "value", nothing more nothing less.

When people give you credit for the success of the run D for a decade, and it IS BETTER THAN EVER during a season when you miss 10 games?

You might play your position well, but that position is not crucial as others.

buckeyehoppy
08-28-2011, 07:23 PM
How many more years do these guys have left in your opinion?

Let's take a look...


Hines - 5 years. He was old and slow when he entered the league. And he didn't have an ACL so we know he's bionic. Plus he sleeps in the bariatric chamber which will keep him young.

If Max Starks had spent some time in the bariatric chamber, he coulda been a TE.

Realistically, Hines won't play past his current deal (which, I think, has two years left). He'll be the "ceremonial" starter as long as he's here. But Wally, Brownie and Manny will control the show for at least the next few years, with Cotch just complicating things for opposing Ds.


Farrior - 5 years. I just have a feeling Posty's gonna play after 40.

I wouldn't have shed a lot of tears if Potsie had been a salary cap casualty this off-season. But he's still here. The over/under on his departure from the Steelers is two years. At some point in that time frame, Stevie Sly will be ready.


Smitty - 1 year. His crazy injuries scare me.

Smitty is one injury away from calling it a career. The fact that he is still here is somewhat surprising. I'll agree with your one year predict, Flip.


Harrison - 9 years. I have a feeling he's gonna play at an older age than Farrior.

No f**king way! The beating he has taken suggests he'll be lucky to play a third of those years. I'll give him three, but no more. Deebo is a man among boys. But the human body can only take so much punishment and Deebo has more than received his share.


Keisel - 5 years. Another super human that I just don't see aging.

Not as a DL he won't. Besides, the emergence of Ziggy and Ironhead, Jr. will make his presence here unnecessary a couple years hence at the salary he'll command. He might well play beyond two years from now. He just won't be wearing Black and Gold unless he joins the Saints. And he could reach 5 years. But I am comfortable taking the under on that.


Casey - 2 years. He has to have knee problems cause of his size, right?

I might take the over on this prediction, Flip. Casey has proved, time and again, that no matter what condition he is in he is game ready from the word go. That's a priceless intangible. OTOH, you can never tell when his body will betray him when he is that big, so you could be right.


Troy - 10 years. Troy's gonna hit 40 and still be playing for sure. Cause Troy at half speed is still faster than everyone else on the football field.

Troy won't be a Steeler beyond his extension. And his style of play precludes a long career anyway. Also, it's my contention that football doesn't make him who he is, so he may well surprise all of us and retire after a SB win. Even if he was capable of doing it, I don't give Troy half of what you gave him.


Ike - 9 years. I see Ike being the same player in 9 years. He's got so much speed and athleticism, it's not gonna matter if he eventually loses a step.

The way he plays the position will make him expendable long before this. If the Steelers manage to find two players capable of outplaying Ike, he'll be a salary cap cut. He's not a ball hawk. And he'll need all the help he can get if he does lose a step because that is easily his greatest asset.


So put me down as the only guys that don't make 5 years are Casey and Smitty.

Player for player on this list, I don't give any of them more than 5 and none of these guys will be with the Steelers if they can defy my prediction anyway because their salaries will be destructive to the salary cap. It's my guess that most, if not all of these guys will be capably replaced within the next five seasons. I have no doubt that some of those replacements are already on this team.


I just have a feeling some of these guys are gonna last longer than we think.

You might be right in one or two cases, Flip. I'm just not comfortable betting on any of them being around, much less effective, beyond a five year threshold. Besides, we need to get younger and that will need to happen with each of the next five draft cycles.

Another player to keep in mind is Ben. He is 8 years in at this point and he has taken a horrific beating in many of those years. The chances of him being an effective NFL QB beyond his current deal are not very good at all unless he can start getting more consistent protection. The Steelers have made strides toward doing that. But there's a lot more than needs to happen to give Ben the kind of protection that will allow him to be the caliber of QB he is now 5 years into the future.

Captain Lemming
08-28-2011, 07:47 PM
I think Buckeye is nailing the topic better than anyone.

:Agree

Captain Lemming
08-28-2011, 08:08 PM
I usually agree with most everything the good Captain posts, but I differ a little with you on Smith. I've got him in my top 10 Steelers of all time.

Yes, we often agree.
You do recall that we've gone in circles on this topic in the past?

The TOP 10 assessment of Smith frankly is in my opinion the the most overrated comment I've seen by a poster of ANY Steeler player on this board. I think it is as insane as your Ronnie Mac Joker pic.

To compare him to a guy like Greene who was on the ALL TIME NFL TEAM is nuts.

Nevermind probowls, Greene was a NFL defensive MVP. He was in a 4/3 but he did it from the D tackle position, not 4/3 defensive end where it is easier to accumilate sacks.

Young Joe Greene was a DOMINATING DEFENDER. Smith is not.