PDA

View Full Version : Crowded Secondary



Oviedo
08-01-2011, 08:26 AM
With resigning Gay we pretty much know rookies Brown and Allen won't see the field this year but the move confounds what is already our weakest area. It will be interesting to see who stays and goes or see the field.

Safeties:

Troy--not going anywhere...this season
Clark--could he become a cap casualty?????
Mundy--not looking good
Allen--needs to excell on special teams or gone

Cornerbacks:

Ike Taylor--will retire a Steeler
Bmac--likely to stick
Gay--have to figure he is the nickle or why bring him back
Keenan Lewis--IMO he is gone unless they move him to safety
Crezdon Butler--we hear he has potential but he can't show it on the sidelines
Curtis Brown and Cortez Allen--looks like they are destined to get stuck with the LeBeau "redshirt"

There are others I don't know but this area needs to get better sooner rather than later

flippy
08-01-2011, 09:06 AM
There's room for 4 Ss and 6 CBs.

I suspect Allen will be the odd man out if one of the CBs can backup the safety position.

birtikidis
08-01-2011, 09:21 AM
Cortez Allen is way too raw regardless. No way he gets on the field. And he shouldn't.
Brown was a fourth round pick. Again, he doesn't get on the field. And, once again, he shouldn't.
Ovi, not every player on the defense was/is a highly regarded 1st round draft pick. There's a reason these guys fell to where they did and now it's up to the coaches to develop them. I'd b!tch if these guys were top 10 picks, but seeing as how they are 3-5 round prospects I'm glad they sit.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
08-01-2011, 09:50 AM
I believe that the Gay signing was a one year deal - although originally reported as a multi year deal. I am sure that not much was given up front to him. So, he is back to compete for a spot. He'll go up against Butler and Lewis for the nickel spot, and if he wins out then good, but if he doesn't then he goes.

I would like to see Lewis finally step up, leave the bonehead stuff behind and grab some playing time.

steelz09
08-01-2011, 09:54 AM
Allen may be raw but the kid is really athletic and has Ike Taylor size.

Ike was raw too remember and he turned out well. I wouldn't write-off Allen.

Leper Friend
08-01-2011, 10:10 AM
There is absolutely no reason for Lewis and Butler not to be given every opportunity to take over the #2 and nickel slots. I can't imagine they could be a whole lot worse than Gay and Mcfadden.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
08-01-2011, 10:35 AM
Allen may be raw but the kid is really athletic and has Ike Taylor size.

Ike was raw too remember and he turned out well. I wouldn't write-off Allen.

I love the potential of Allen, and the ability to blossom into a very good CB, however, like Ike in year one, I expect very little from his as a CB this season.

phillyesq
08-01-2011, 12:05 PM
Allen may be raw but the kid is really athletic and has Ike Taylor size.

Ike was raw too remember and he turned out well. I wouldn't write-off Allen.

Yup. Ike was the easy comp for Cortez Allen.

Ike did not play much at all his first year and, if I recall, played little his second year. He took time to develop, but the investment of time was worth it. Allen will also likely learn from the bench initially.

birtikidis
08-01-2011, 12:08 PM
Allen may be raw but the kid is really athletic and has Ike Taylor size.

Ike was raw too remember and he turned out well. I wouldn't write-off Allen.
J, that's my point. I didn't write him off. Just don't think he should play much this season. Ovi makes it out like these guys, regardless of where they were drafted and experience playing the system, should be able to step right on the field and play. they'd be able to, according to him, if D.L wasn't our coordinator.

birtikidis
08-01-2011, 12:10 PM
Allen may be raw but the kid is really athletic and has Ike Taylor size.

Ike was raw too remember and he turned out well. I wouldn't write-off Allen.

Yup. Ike was the easy comp for Cortez Allen.

Ike did not play much at all his first year and, if I recall, played little his second year. He took time to develop, but the investment of time was worth it. Allen will also likely learn from the bench initially.
also remember, Ike nearly got thrown off the team because he had a hard time to adjust. Think that was the first year he started. Lost his job and everyone wanted him cut. I see the same thing happening with allen. He'll be good, just not right now.

RuthlessBurgher
08-01-2011, 01:26 PM
Crezdon Butler--we hear he has potential but he can't show it on the sidelines
Curtis Brown and Cortez Allen--looks like they are destined to get stuck with the LeBeau "redshirt"

Oh no! The rookie 5th round draft pick didn't start right off the bat! Fire that bum LeBeau with his difficult schemes that result in a top 3 defense every d@mn year!

You seem to mock the LeBeau "redshirt" as if it were an awful thing. You know what a redshirt does? It allows players like Ike Taylor to develop from small school midround pick to top notch NFL corner! It allows players, once they do see the field, to be able to play the game at full speed rather than having them out there thinking about their assignments before they are fully prepared.

You have the patience of a mayfly. Seems like you would get frustrated that a kindergarten class isn't reading Anna Karenina by the end of nap-time on their first day.

Shoe
08-01-2011, 03:25 PM
I believe that the Gay signing was a one year deal - although originally reported as a multi year deal. I am sure that not much was given up front to him. So, he is back to compete for a spot. He'll go up against Butler and Lewis for the nickel spot, and if he wins out then good, but if he doesn't then he goes.

I would like to see Lewis finally step up, leave the bonehead stuff behind and grab some playing time.

I HOPE so... I do realize that the coaches know MORE than I do. But it's hard to imagine that I and so many other Steeler fans can be wrong, that this guy stinks to high heaven and can't cover ME. I just think about how that lumbering Gronkowski ran circles around him.

Oviedo
08-01-2011, 03:38 PM
Allen may be raw but the kid is really athletic and has Ike Taylor size.

Ike was raw too remember and he turned out well. I wouldn't write-off Allen.
J, that's my point. I didn't write him off. Just don't think he should play much this season. Ovi makes it out like these guys, regardless of where they were drafted and experience playing the system, should be able to step right on the field and play. they'd be able to, according to him, if D.L wasn't our coordinator.

Actually Ovi seeks to stimulate discussion on certain topics because you guys are falling down on the tasks of starting interesting threads :wink:

Ovi also knows which topics will garner knee jerk reactions from which posters :wink:

flippy
08-01-2011, 03:45 PM
Allen may be raw but the kid is really athletic and has Ike Taylor size.

Ike was raw too remember and he turned out well. I wouldn't write-off Allen.
J, that's my point. I didn't write him off. Just don't think he should play much this season. Ovi makes it out like these guys, regardless of where they were drafted and experience playing the system, should be able to step right on the field and play. they'd be able to, according to him, if D.L wasn't our coordinator.

Actually Ovi seeks to stimulate discussion on certain topics because you guys are falling down on the tasks of starting interesting threads :wink:

Ovi also knows which topics will garner knee jerk reactions from which posters :wink:

Sounds like Ovi has come down with a case of the Chadman. :)

hawaiiansteel
08-01-2011, 03:51 PM
Steelers sort through cornerback options

By Mark Kaboly, PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Monday, August 1, 2011

http://files.pittsburghlive.com/photos/2011-08-01/FBNmcfaddn-a.jpg

Bryant McFadden

When the Steelers locked up cornerback Ike Taylor to a long-term deal last week, they pretty much locked down the left side of the defense -- at least where it comes to the passing game -- for the next four years.

However, the right side is still a work in progress.

The Steelers added free agent William Gay to the mix Sunday. He joins incumbent starter Bryant McFadden and Keenan Lewis as cornerbacks who will try to solidify the pass defense of the best run-stopping team in the NFL.

"We want to be ranked tops in the league," McFadden said. "That has always been our main focus and to do that, we have to make sure we have the back end right."

To do that, the Steelers are going to have to get better play from cornerbacks not named Ike Taylor.

Opponents picked on McFadden regularly last season. He was targeted 109 times and allowed close to a 70 percent completion percentage.

Gay wasn't much better. He surrendered a 67 percent completion percentage despite routinely playing nickel back.

Add that to Lewis' implosion during a preseason game in Denver that placed him in Mike Tomlin's doghouse for the rest of the season, and the Steelers' secondary had issues all year.

"Growing pains," Taylor said. "That's what happens to the best of us. It doesn't matter what happens. What matters is how you respond to it. The guys up front can get away with slipping a few times. The corner on the back end, you can't slip. You are the last line of defense, and you have to know that."

Issues in the secondary came to light during Super Bowl XLV, when Green Bay quarterback Aaron Rodgers threw for more than 300 yards and three touchdowns in a 31-25 win. And that was against a secondary that was seemingly playing well at the time.

The Steelers' defense allowed an average of 165 yards passing over the final seven games of the regular season -- good enough to lead the NFL during that stretch - to lower their ranking from 25th in the league to 12th.

"We do have a good secondary," Taylor said. "We have a lot of athletes back there that know how to play the game."

McFadden will be given every opportunity to lock down the starting position opposite Taylor again, even though the former second-round pick struggled at times after spending a year in Arizona.

"I just started to get a hang of what the Cardinals were trying to do, so coming over here was a quick transition for me," said McFadden, who the Steelers re-acquired last season after he spent four years with the Steelers.

McFadden allowed Atlanta's Roddy White to catch 13 passes in the season opener. White was targeted 10 other times in the game.

Lewis had his issues as well.

After having a stellar training camp, he allowed a pair of touchdowns to Brandon Lloyd in a preseason game he started in Denver, and never recovered.

"No cornerback has great games every game, and that was the only bad game that I really had," Lewis said.

Lewis played in only five games last year. He had a rough time making the transition from Oregon State's man-to-man scheme to the Steelers' zone his rookie year, and his difficulties landed him on the inactive list for 12 games his rookie season.

"It was definitely tough knowing that you prepared yourself all summer, you worked hard, you did everything you could, and one game like that can change the outcome of everything," Lewis said.

Taylor added some advice: "You have to have an 'I don't give a what' kind of attitude. If not, you aren't going to last."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... z1TnhdqFnE (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_749360.html#ixzz1TnhdqFnE)

Oviedo
08-01-2011, 04:02 PM
Allen may be raw but the kid is really athletic and has Ike Taylor size.

Ike was raw too remember and he turned out well. I wouldn't write-off Allen.
J, that's my point. I didn't write him off. Just don't think he should play much this season. Ovi makes it out like these guys, regardless of where they were drafted and experience playing the system, should be able to step right on the field and play. they'd be able to, according to him, if D.L wasn't our coordinator.

Actually Ovi seeks to stimulate discussion on certain topics because you guys are falling down on the tasks of starting interesting threads :wink:

Ovi also knows which topics will garner knee jerk reactions from which posters :wink:

Sounds like Ovi has come down with a case of the Chadman. :)

I'm not an expert but I have been to Australia!!!!!!!

birtikidis
08-01-2011, 05:50 PM
Allen may be raw but the kid is really athletic and has Ike Taylor size.

Ike was raw too remember and he turned out well. I wouldn't write-off Allen.
J, that's my point. I didn't write him off. Just don't think he should play much this season. Ovi makes it out like these guys, regardless of where they were drafted and experience playing the system, should be able to step right on the field and play. they'd be able to, according to him, if D.L wasn't our coordinator.

Actually Ovi seeks to stimulate discussion on certain topics because you guys are falling down on the tasks of starting interesting threads :wink:

Ovi also knows which topics will garner knee jerk reactions from which posters :wink:

Sounds like Ovi has come down with a case of the Chadman. :)

I'm not an expert but I have been to Australia!!!!!!!
I've been down under, but she wasn't even FROM Australia.

Mister Pittsburgh
08-01-2011, 06:09 PM
Here is an original idea, how about a real open competition for the CB & dime/nickel jobs instead of just going with the same two crap CB's being handed jobs cause they have been here? If I were a CB picked up this year what motivation would I have other than figuring I am in a battle for a PS job? Old man needs to develop players instead of sticking with crap.

birtikidis
08-01-2011, 06:12 PM
Here is an original idea, how about a real open competition for the CB & dime/nickel jobs instead of just going with the same two crap CB's being handed jobs cause they have been here? If I were a CB picked up this year what motivation would I have other than figuring I am in a battle for a PS job? Old man needs to develop players instead of sticking with crap.
Well, by all accounts this is a make or break year for Lewis. Butler is entering just his SECOND year of NFL football after being a mid round pick. Allen is RAW as hell and has no chance as a rook. Brown is also a rook. I don't see what you guys complain about. Being in 3 super bowls in the last 7 years mainly because of your defense tells me more than you ever could.

steelblood
08-01-2011, 06:32 PM
Trying to hide Cortez Allen on the PS is a bad choice. We need to cut the cord on Keenan Lewis or move him to FS and cut Mundy. Of course we are really going into camp with 11 or 12 decent DBs. An injury or two will solve all of the roster problems.

Discipline of Steel
08-01-2011, 08:21 PM
Trying to hide Cortez Allen on the PS is a bad choice. We need to cut the cord on Keenan Lewis or move him to FS and cut Mundy. Of course we are really going into camp with 11 or 12 decent DBs. An injury or two will solve all of the roster problems.

But early reports are that Lewis is playing well and he was a third round pick. Lets just wait and see how everyone does in training camp and preseason games before we go cutting the cord on anyone.

RuthlessBurgher
08-02-2011, 10:12 AM
Trying to hide Cortez Allen on the PS is a bad choice. We need to cut the cord on Keenan Lewis or move him to FS and cut Mundy. Of course we are really going into camp with 11 or 12 decent DBs. An injury or two will solve all of the roster problems.

Ryan Mundy has proven to be a better backup safety than Will Allen.

Oviedo
08-02-2011, 10:30 AM
Trying to hide Cortez Allen on the PS is a bad choice. We need to cut the cord on Keenan Lewis or move him to FS and cut Mundy. Of course we are really going into camp with 11 or 12 decent DBs. An injury or two will solve all of the roster problems.

You won't be able to "hide" Cortez Allen. He will have to make the final 53 along with Curtis Brown or there is a high probability you lose him. Looking at the numbers that is what makes the resigning of William Gay all that more baffling.

If you keep the same number of DBs as last year it looks like both Mundy and Wil Allen need to leave for both the rookie DBs to make the roster.

ramblinjim
08-02-2011, 11:29 AM
I think we'll keep all the guys in the secondary till final cuts and see where we are then. Troy could be on the PUP list for the first six weeks of the season for all we know, Will Allen and Arnaz Battle will probaby both be gone, there will be an injury or two that will throw a wrench in everything.

My guess is that either Lewis or Butler will have to win a roster spot (although I did make the wild prediction in another thread that Lewis beats out McFadden as the surprise of he pre-season) and in Butler's place we cut the 5th rounder (Joe Burnett?) a couple of years ago much to many of our chagrin that we thought looked promising he's hardly guaranteed a spot.

I think our two drafted corners this year will make the final 53 but we've cut 4th rounders before (Fred Gibson, Danny Farmer?).

I think our training camp is going to be darn interesting!

RuthlessBurgher
08-02-2011, 12:11 PM
Trying to hide Cortez Allen on the PS is a bad choice. We need to cut the cord on Keenan Lewis or move him to FS and cut Mundy. Of course we are really going into camp with 11 or 12 decent DBs. An injury or two will solve all of the roster problems.

You won't be able to "hide" Cortez Allen. He will have to make the final 53 along with Curtis Brown or there is a high probability you lose him. Looking at the numbers that is what makes the resigning of William Gay all that more baffling.

If you keep the same number of DBs as last year it looks like both Mundy and Wil Allen need to leave for both the rookie DBs to make the roster.

What??? You want no backup safeties at all? Good plan...since Polamalu is rarely injured. :lol: I'll believe that former college CB's like Keenan Lewis and Cortez Allen can be adequate fill-ins at safety when I see it. Much like you can't just count on filling your guard positions with former tackles all the time, you also can't just count on filling your safety positions with former corners.

RuthlessBurgher
08-02-2011, 12:15 PM
Troy could be on the PUP list for the first six weeks of the season for all we know

Troy's already in camp. He can't be put on PUP now. The only guys that would be eligible to be put on the PUP list for the first 6 weeks of the season are Hines Ward, Chris Kemoeatu, or Eugene Bright if they do not heal up sufficiently before then.