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hawaiiansteel
08-01-2011, 02:13 AM
‘Young Money Family’ ready to pay off for Steelers

By WILL GRAVES, AP Sports Writer
July 31

http://cbspittsburgh.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/mikewallace.jpg?w=300

LATROBE, Pa. (AP)—On the surface, it sounds a bit ridiculous and Mike Wallace knows it.

Still, the Pittsburgh Steelers wide receiver insists he wasn’t kidding when he told reporters last week that he planned on racking up 2,000 yards receiving this season.

That’s more than Jerry Rice, who holds the single-season record at 1,858 yards, ever put up. More than Randy Moss. More than anybody who’s played the position. Ever.

Crazy? Maybe. Out of reach? Well, not if you ask the exuberant and highly confident third-year speedster.

“I’m not saying that I’m better than any of those guys, but I feel like I’m Mike and I’m my own person,” Wallace said Sunday. “I don’t care what Jerry Rice did. I don’t care what Randy Moss did.”

And to be honest, he doesn’t care what Plaxico Burress did either.

Sure, Wallace thinks landing the veteran—who signed with the New York Jets on Sunday after flirting with returning to Pittsburgh—would have been “sweet.” He’s just not sure it was necessary.

Wallace hears the talk about how Pittsburgh’s undersized receiving corps could use someone with Burress’ 6-foot-5 frame. Wallace would like to provide the critics with one little reminder.

“They forgot I jumped a 40-inch vertical at the combine,” he points out.

Hard to blame them. Wallace, who turns 25 on Monday, has gotten so good at outrunning defenders it’s easy to overlook the fact he can rise above them too.

The former Mississippi star averaged an eye-popping 20.3 yards per reception during his first two years in the league while emerging into one of the NFL’s top deep threats.

His 1,257 yards in 2010 were fifth in the league, numbers that might have been even better if quarterback Ben Roethlisberger hadn’t been suspended the first four weeks of the year, forcing the team to play it more conservatively with backup Charlie Batch under center.

When Roethlisberger returned, Wallace took off, scoring eight of his 10 touchdowns in games Roethlisberger started and averaging 21.6 yards a catch over the final 12 weeks of the year. And the numbers aren’t skewed by a couple of lengthy scores. His longest reception was “only” 56 yards.

“Guys are scared of him,” second-year wide receiver Antonio Brown said. “He’s fast. He’s running past guys. He’s running great routes.”

And running them from multiple positions. While veteran Hines Ward is committed to lining up in the slot whenever he’s on the field, Wallace is versatile enough to be put anywhere.

Learning where to go and how to get there from both sides of the field took time. Yet Roethlisberger pointed to Wallace’s commitment in the film room and an underrated pair of hands for his rapid ascension into the league’s upper echelon.

“He does a great job getting in and out of his breaks,” Roethlisberger said. “He’s really improved from year one to year two and I’ll see big improvements this year.”

Even if Wallace chose not to fly from his home in New Orleans to Pittsburgh this spring to participate in a series of workouts led by Roethlisberger during the lockout. He did his own thing in the Bayou and spent time with his daughter, who turns 1 next weekend.

Wallace kept in frequent contact with his teammates and certainly appeared to be on the same page with Roethlisberger during practice Saturday, connecting for several long gains during a 2-minute drill during the first full workout with pads on.

The one thing Roethlisberger didn’t do is look for Wallace in the end zone on one of those patented “go-up-and-get-it” routes that made Burress a millionaire many times over.

Wallace understands. Truth is the Steelers have never asked him to unleash his inner high-jumper. Not that he hasn’t mentioned it to Roethlisberger a time or three.

“He reminds me daily that he’s got a 50-inch vertical or whatever it is,” Roethlisberger said. “People think only real big tall guys can get the high ball … it’s about can you get up and do it. He can get up and do it.”

Of course Wallace can. Just ask him.

“I feel like I can catch the same balls (Burress) can catch you know,” Wallace said. “I don’t have a problem with catching a fade on the goal line if you throw it to me. I don’t feel like you have to be 6-5 to catch a jump ball.”

Good thing, because there’s a real chance the Steelers won’t have the luxury this fall, and that’s just fine with the group that calls themselves the “Young Money Family.”

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2011/0117/nfl_g_brownsanders_576.jpg

It’s a moniker Wallace, Brown and Emmanuel Sanders adopted last year while serving as understudies to Ward, the unit’s unquestioned leader. What the group lacks in height—no player is taller than 6-feet—it makes up for in athleticism and confidence.

“Yeah, we guys are small, but we can do a lot of versatile things,” said Brown, who had 16 catches for 167 yards a year ago. “We run past guys. If we need to jump we’ll jump. We’ll do whatever is necessary.”

Like Wallace, Brown and Sanders have certain numbers in mind. Both would like to crack 1,000 yards this year. Both would like to see tight end Heath Miller crack 1,000, too.

Impressive aspirations to be sure. Just not the kind Wallace has in mind. If you’re going to set the bar, might as well set it to where you can barely see it, right?

“Like I said, (2,000 yards) is a big goal,” Wallace said. “It’s pretty far-fetched but you always want to strive to be the best and in order to do that if I get 2,000 yards I think I’ll be the best.”

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=a ... um=twitter (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-steelers-receivers&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter)

flippy
08-01-2011, 07:14 AM
I remember another young receiver a little while back talking about 2000 yards very early in his career. It was right before Chad Johnson went cuckoo and changed his name to Ocho Cinco.

RuthlessBurgher
08-01-2011, 12:38 PM
I hate when players mention individual statistical goals. The goal should be to get back to the Super Bowl again...and win it (individual stats be damned). But I understand that players (and wideouts in particular) tend to have big egos, which is a big part of getting them to where they are at today.

As for talk about his 40" vertical, I don't doubt it, but I think he does need to work on high-pointing the ball though. I rarely see him going up and snatching the ball in the air (more often, he allows it to fall into his body).

flippy
08-01-2011, 01:59 PM
I hate when players mention individual statistical goals. The goal should be to get back to the Super Bowl again...and win it (individual stats be damned). But I understand that players (and wideouts in particular) tend to have big egos, which is a big part of getting them to where they are at today.

As for talk about his 40" vertical, I don't doubt it, but I think he does need to work on high-pointing the ball though. I rarely see him going up and snatching the ball in the air (more often, he allows it to fall into his body).

The individual goals seem to go beyond just Wallace. And I'd rather hear more that these guys want to get back to the SuperBowl and win it.

And yeah, Wallace catches everything in the breadbasket.

He coulda learned something from Randle El. El was tiny, but I think he could high point a ball better than anyone we have on the current roster. Heck he could probably high point a ball better than Plax who played smaller than his size.

Shoe
08-01-2011, 03:21 PM
I doubt that he just started spouting off about 2,000 yards in a year like an Ochocinco might. I'm gonna guess that it was a response to a question... Let's get one thing straight: One, YES it is ridiculous. And while we're on the subject, we are all caught up in the whole Mike Wallace thing. Two, YES he is a very fast WR with big-play potential. But people (including himself) are making it seem like he is an elite WR or something.

I do hope that the article is sorta hyping up this Money Posse or whatever they wanna call themselves, and that these (young) guys aren't trying to get on the whole Ochocinco 'look-at-me' bandwagon.

skyhawk
08-01-2011, 05:24 PM
40 inch vertical? I haven't seen it on the field.

What's Hine's vertical? I've seen him high point more balls than any Steeler receiver in the last 20 years.

hawaiiansteel
08-03-2011, 02:27 AM
Wallace Wants 2,000 Yards

by Neal Coolong on Aug 2, 2011

http://cdn3.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/1695573/85362_Steelers_Camp_Football.jpg

This slipped past our wide nets of news observation.

Steelers third-year WR Mike Wallace wants to reach the as of now never reached plateau of 2,000 receiving yards. Hall of Fame WR Jerry Rice owns the league record with 1,858 receiving yards.

Brash and bold. Endearing in a way. Let's play along for a minute.

Wallace would need to average 125 receiving yards a game in 16 games to achieve that mark. The recently turned 25-year-old has a two-year average of 20.3 yards per catch, but has only one game with more than 125 yards - a 136 yard performance in a loss against New England last year.

Based on that career 20.3 yards per catch average, Wallace's numbers would be something like 99 catches and 2,009 yards. He'd likely be the MVP of the league, if not for the Rodgers Lust we're likely to endure for another five months.

Relax....it's a joke. There's no way anyone's beating Rodgers for MVP this year, Packers fans. Or the presidency in 2012.

It's not unfair to suggest Wallace could see career highs in yards and catches this year. His route-running has improved and he is becoming more of a legitimate No. 1 receiver - able to run all routes at any distance all over the field. He'll likely see his role expanded even further this year, and while any level that Jerry Rice didn't meet is beyond lofty for any receiver, Yancey Thigpen's franchise record 1,398 yards isn't out of reach.

Maybe Wallace would be ok with that.

http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/20 ... #storyjump (http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2011/8/2/2339846/Mike-wallace-wants-2000-receiving-yards-jerry-rice#storyjump)

chiken
08-03-2011, 09:23 AM
High pointing the ball would suggest that the QB is putting enough air on the ball that he has to run under it or jump before the ball "lands".

In Actualluality the kid more times than not has had to Wait on the balls (and the Defender) He should never really have to hight point it as wide open as he is.. Ben/B.A just need to move the safety and anticipate Wallace blowing his man out..
He should be running under more balls then he does. (IMHO)

feltdizz
08-03-2011, 09:34 AM
I hate when players mention individual statistical goals. The goal should be to get back to the Super Bowl again...and win it (individual stats be damned). But I understand that players (and wideouts in particular) tend to have big egos, which is a big part of getting them to where they are at today.

As for talk about his 40" vertical, I don't doubt it, but I think he does need to work on high-pointing the ball though. I rarely see him going up and snatching the ball in the air (more often, he allows it to fall into his body).

I think the SB is an obvious goal... but Wallace needs to focus on perfecting his craft and this goal will help us win games.

If Wallace celebrates 2000 yards after a 7-9 season I would have a problem with it.

hawaiiansteel
08-14-2011, 03:07 AM
Wallace insists talents are multifaceted

By Mark Kaboly, PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Sunday, August 14, 2011

http://files.pittsburghlive.com/photos/2011-08-13/dgwallace-a.jpg


Mike Wallace is not going to deny his infatuation with running deep routes.

And who can blame him, considering the success he had last year?

When you average 21 yards per catch and eight of your 10 touchdowns came from anywhere between 33 and 56 yards, you tend to get a nickname like Mike Tomlin slapped on him last year — ironically, after two of his three catches against Tampa Bay were 40-plus yard bombs.

Tomlin dubbed him "One-Trick" — as in one-trick pony.

"I don't like it," Wallace said.

Even though the nickname hasn't caught on to the point of where he is referred to by it much, the stigma is there.

Ask Wallace's teammates about him, and surely enough, guess what always seems to come up?

» Emmanuel Sanders: "He was a 'one-trick' pony his first year."

» Ben Roethlisberger: "Even though Mike calls him 'One-Trick' ...

» Hines Ward: "I don't want Mike to be that 'one-trick' pony guy."

"I know I can do a lot of other things," Wallace said. "Every time (Tomlin) calls me a 'one-trick pony,' I tell him that I have a lot of other tricks."

Wallace had a breakout season last year. He caught a team-high 60 passes for 1,257 yards. His seven 100-yard games tied John Stallworth for the most in a Steelers season. He also ranked second in the league with 17 catches of 25 yards or more.

But Wallace likes to point to the other stuff he did — such as 46 of his 60 catches were thrown less than 20 yards downfield; an underneath crossing pattern against the Raiders that he took 52 yards for a score; and the blitz read against the Panthers when he turned a 4-yard pass Roethlisberger pass into a 43-yard touchdown.

"I want him to be an overall wideout who can run routes," Ward said. "Everybody knows he can run by you. He needs to understand coverages better and be crisper on his route-running."

That's what's Wallace has been working on during his third training camp.

The Steelers have continued to add more routes to Wallace's repertoire. During his rookie season, Wallace had five patterns. Last year, the coaching staff doubled that number, and this year, he is at around 15 — close to the full playbook.

"We've gotten to the point where he's done a lot of different routes that really is going to be key for him to evolve and mature as a receiver," Roethlisberger said. "Every year we progress to get him more involved and to do more things."

Receivers coach Scottie Montgomery wants to see Wallace make a continued progression from speedy young receiver who only caught deep balls to elite wideout.

"I just want to see him get better," Montgomery said. "If he can get better every year to the point where he is known as an elite player, we will just grow on that. As for this year, I expect him to be better than he was last year."

What Wallace expects from himself is a bit more ambitious than just being better than last year.

Wallace's goal is to be the first receiver to surpass 2,000 yards in a season. Hall of Famer Jerry Rice (1,848) holds the record.

"People ask me what my goal is, and I tell them," Wallace said. "I don't have a reason to hold it back. That's how I feel, so I say it. It's legit. If I say it, I mean it. I don't talk to just be talking."

"He's serious," Sanders said. "He doesn't play games. He believes in his talents."

Nobody in the league broke 1,500 yards last year, and only two players have surpassed that number in the past five years: Reggie Wayne and Andre Johnson (twice).

"I know it is a whole lot of yards, but I feel that if I work hard enough that I can get there," Wallace said. "If I have those high goals and I fall short, I will still have a great season."

Wallace would have to average 125 yards per game to reach 2,000. He has surpassed 125 yards once in his two-year career.

"I don't want to hear him talk to me about that stuff," said Roethlisberger about 2,000 yards.

Wallace's response?

"All he has to do is throw me the ball," Wallace said. "If he throws me the ball, I will show him what I can do with it. Turn the film on; I can take it to the house."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... z1UycropQT (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_751541.html#ixzz1UycropQT)

Captain Lemming
08-14-2011, 04:58 PM
‘Young Money Family’ ready to pay off for Steelers

By WILL GRAVES, AP Sports Writer
July 31

Still, the Pittsburgh Steelers wide receiver insists he wasn’t kidding when he told reporters last week that he planned on racking up 2,000 yards receiving this season.

Like Wallace, Brown and Sanders have certain numbers in mind. Both would like to crack 1,000 yards this year. Both would like to see tight end Heath Miller crack 1,000, too.


So if my math is correct we anticipate 5000 receiving yards, not counting one starting receiver (Ward) or any running backs?

There is a hard truth when we talk about a receivers "goals".

Ridiculous numbers only are only possible if you THROW THE BALL an absurd number of times.

Get open when you run routes and catch the ball when it comes your way. That is what our guys need to do.

I dont want dudes getting a gazzilion regular season yards who cant get open during the final drive of the SB against GB.

Swann, Stallworth, and yes even the despised Santonio were unstoppable when it counted. But none put up outlandish stats during a SB year

BradshawsHairdresser
08-14-2011, 09:26 PM
‘Young Money Family’ ready to pay off for Steelers

By WILL GRAVES, AP Sports Writer
July 31

Still, the Pittsburgh Steelers wide receiver insists he wasn’t kidding when he told reporters last week that he planned on racking up 2,000 yards receiving this season.

Like Wallace, Brown and Sanders have certain numbers in mind. Both would like to crack 1,000 yards this year. Both would like to see tight end Heath Miller crack 1,000, too.


So if my math is correct we anticipate 5000 receiving yards, not counting one starting receiver (Ward) or any running backs?

There is a hard truth when we talk about a receivers "goals".

Ridiculous numbers only are only possible if you THROW THE BALL an absurd number of times.

Get open when you run routes and catch the ball when it comes your way. That is what our guys need to do.

I dont want dudes getting a gazzilion regular season yards who cant get open during the final drive of the SB against GB.

Swann, Stallworth, and yes even the despised Santonio were unstoppable when it counted. But none put up outlandish stats during a SB year
:Clap :Clap :Clap

Wallace can talk 2000 yards all he wants, but
1) It ain't happening
and
2) If it did, it wouldn't necessarily be a good thing for the TEAM

Now if Ben can do a little better on his deep throws, Wally MIGHT have a chance to break 1500... :stirpot

Wallace108
08-15-2011, 04:58 AM
Wallace has a cockiness about him that I like. As long as he keeps it in check and doesn't turn into a T.O. or Ochostinko, I'm cool with it. What amazes me about him is that everyone knows he's a speedster, yet every game he manages to get wide open deep. Now if only he and Ben could get their timing down.

He's not going to get 2,000 yards, but I expect a big year out of him.

Captain Lemming
08-15-2011, 07:36 PM
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7648/newwallacesig.gif
Santonio Who?

Santonio WHO you say?

Santonio "PLAY BIG ON THE SB FINAL DRIVE" Holmes.

Can you do that before you start yapping about what you are gonna do in the regular season Mr. Wallace?

This is how you do the last drive Mike Wallace. Please take some notes:

1st and 10 at PIT 22 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short left to M.Moore pushed ob at PIT 21 for -1 yards (A.Wilson).PENALTY on PIT-C.Kemoeatu, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 22 - No Play.
1st and 20 at PIT 12 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to S.Holmes to PIT 26 for 14 yards (D.Rodgers-Cromartie).
2nd and 6 at PIT 26 (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep right to N.Washington (A.Francisco).
3rd and 6 at PIT 26 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to S.Holmes to PIT 39 for 13 yards (K.Dansby).
1st and 10 at PIT 39 (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to N.Washington to 50 for 11 yards (A.Wilson).
1st and 10 at 50 (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger scrambles up the middle to ARZ 46 for 4 yards (C.Okeafor, K.Dansby).
Timeout #2 by PIT at 01:02.
2nd and 6 at ARI 46 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to S.Holmes to ARZ 6 for 40 yards (A.Francisco).
Timeout #3 by PIT at 00:49.
1st and 6 at ARI 6 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short left to S.Holmes.
2nd and 6 at ARI 6 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to S.Holmes for 6 yards, TOUCHDOWN.The Replay Assistant challenged the pass completion ruling, and the play was Upheld.

....we can dis Santonio and crow about Wallace when he can account for FOUR CATCHES for 73 yards AND a game winning TD, IN ONE GAME WINNING SB drive.

Wallace, talk to me when you can do it WHEN IT COUNTS!!!!

I want Wallace to tell us and SHOW US THAT this is his goal, not 2,000 meaningless regular season FANASY TEAM yards.

I NEVER liked Stonios antics, I like Wallaces potential, but I dont want to hear no "Santonio who" in favor of Wallace. Not yet.

Not when Wallace did a goose egg when given the chance on our final SB drive last year.

Wallace108
08-15-2011, 07:53 PM
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/7648/newwallacesig.gif
Santonio Who?

Santonio WHO you say?

Santonio "I CAN GET OPEN WHENEVER I WANT ON A SB FINAL DRIVE UNLIKE ONE TRICK WALLACE" Holmes.

This is how you do the last drive Mike Wallace:

1st and 10 at PIT 22 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short left to M.Moore pushed ob at PIT 21 for -1 yards (A.Wilson).PENALTY on PIT-C.Kemoeatu, Offensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at PIT 22 - No Play.
1st and 20 at PIT 12 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to S.Holmes to PIT 26 for 14 yards (D.Rodgers-Cromartie).
2nd and 6 at PIT 26 (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep right to N.Washington (A.Francisco).
3rd and 6 at PIT 26 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to S.Holmes to PIT 39 for 13 yards (K.Dansby).
1st and 10 at PIT 39 (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to N.Washington to 50 for 11 yards (A.Wilson).
1st and 10 at 50 (No Huddle, Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger scrambles up the middle to ARZ 46 for 4 yards (C.Okeafor, K.Dansby).
Timeout #2 by PIT at 01:02.
2nd and 6 at ARI 46 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to S.Holmes to ARZ 6 for 40 yards (A.Francisco).
Timeout #3 by PIT at 00:49.
1st and 6 at ARI 6 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete short left to S.Holmes.
2nd and 6 at ARI 6 (Shotgun) B.Roethlisberger pass short right to S.Holmes for 6 yards, TOUCHDOWN.The Replay Assistant challenged the pass completion ruling, and the play was Upheld.

I NEVER liked Stonios antics, I like Wallaces potential, but I dont want to hear no "Santonio who" in favor of Wallace. Not yet.

Not when Wallace did a goose egg on our final SB drive last year.

Add the above number up for Santonio on the final drive:

....we can dis Santonio and crow about Wallace when he can account for FOUR CATCHES for 73 yards AND a game winning TD, IN ONE GAME WINNING SB drive. Wallace do it WHEN IT COUNTS!!!!

I want Wallace to tell us and SHOW US THAT this is his goal, not 2,000 meaningless regular season FANASY TEAM yards.
Think back over Santonio's career with the Steelers. How many games can you remember him coming up big in? I can remember three, including the Super Bowl against the Cardinals. Obviously, the Super Bowl was his biggest game. But he was nonexistent until the final drive. And let's be honest ... it wasn't a top-notch defense they were going up against ... it was the Cardinals. And on the final drive, they were playing essentially a prevent defense. There was a lot of stuff open underneath and in the middle of the field, which the Steelers took advantage of. That doesn't exactly make Holmes the second coming of Jerry Rice. The real credit goes to Ben playing behind that poor excuse for an offensive line. But yeah, Holmes made a miraculous catch to win the game. But he also dropped what would have been the game winner on the previous play. Had Ben not made an unbelievable throw on the final pass, Holmes could have been the goat instead of the hero.

Holmes was a good receiver, nothing more. Wallace is every bit as good. In fact, I think he's better. So yeah, I have no problem saying Santonio Who?

flippy
08-15-2011, 08:25 PM
I'm with the Captain on this one. Wallace has promise, but he's no Santonio.

Santonio scored a TD in every playoff game he's ever played for us.

Wallace is 1 for 3.

Santonio averages 16+ YPC in the playoffs

Wallace has 8+ YPC in the playoffs.

Santonio came up big in the playoffs and made plays when we need them.

Wallace wasn't open on the final drive in the SuperBowl we just lost.

Santonio is a terrific route runner.

Wallace runs 5 routes and needs to improve on those routes according to some.

One of these guys speaks of lofty goals that would make him the greatest WR ever.

The other one has proven he's one of the best and has the SB MVP trophy to show for it.


Bottom line, we all want Mike to be great. But the 2000 yard garbage comes off diva like. And we can say that we don't need Santonio cause he's a pot head, but he did nothing but work hard for us on the field.

In fact, I bet every Steeler player wishes we had him on that last SuperBowl drive. We all know someone would have been open if Santonio was on the field.

Mike's got a long way to go. Especially in the post season.

Wallace108
08-15-2011, 09:26 PM
Flippy, I get what you and Captain are saying ... but I still disagree.
You can't always go by stats and end results. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl ring as a QB, while Dan Marino never won one. Can we say that Dilfer was a better QB than Marino?

If we want to compare Wallace to Holmes, what real difference is there other than the final drives in their respective Super Bowls? But is that a fair comparison as to who's the better receiver?

1. The Packers had a much better defense than the Cardinals.
2. Holmes had Whisenhunt calling plays, while Wallace had Arians.
3. In the final drive in the SB against the Packers, Randle El lined up on the wrong side on third down, confusing the other receivers, including Wallace, who threw his hands up in the air in confusion. That situation didn't happen with Holmes against the Cardinals.

Basically, there are other factors that have to be considered other than just judging Wallace and Holmes on stats.

Believe me ... I'm not overestimating Wallace. I'm not sure if he's even the best receiver on the team right now. But I think he's every bit as good as Holmes was/is.

flippy
08-15-2011, 10:16 PM
I'm not just looking at 1 drive. I'm looking at their body of work in the playoffs.

Holmes so far is clutch in the playoffs. Mike hasn't been.

Mike has shown an incredible ability to get open deep. And he's only 2 years in, so I expect him to only get better from here. But he's just not yet the all around receiver that Holmes is - especially on the big stage come playoff time. But he's young. And there's a reason the team gets on him for being a 1 trick pony. They need him to get better. When adds more routes and becomes a better route runner, there's no reason to think he won't improve.

His goals are a little misdirected given his playoff performance to date. And like Captain says, 2000 yds for Wallace + 3000 between Brown, Sanders, and Miller is nutso. Hines and Cotchery are good for at least 800 yds each, add in Mendy and Moore, and the backup TEs and Ben's gonna have to get to 7000+ yards.

Which WR of ours smokes weed?

Captain Lemming
08-15-2011, 11:01 PM
I'm not just looking at 1 drive. I'm looking at their body of work in the playoffs.

Holmes so far is clutch in the playoffs. Mike hasn't been.

Mike has shown an incredible ability to get open deep. And he's only 2 years in, so I expect him to only get better from here. But he's just not yet the all around receiver that Holmes is - especially on the big stage come playoff time. But he's young. And there's a reason the team gets on him for being a 1 trick pony. They need him to get better. When adds more routes and becomes a better route runner, there's no reason to think he won't improve.

His goals are a little misdirected given his playoff performance to date. And like Captain says, 2000 yds for Wallace + 3000 between Brown, Sanders, and Miller is nutso. Hines and Cotchery are good for at least 800 yds each, add in Mendy and Moore, and the backup TEs and Ben's gonna have to get to 7000+ yards.

Which WR of ours smokes weed?


Money Flip.

W108, we got to the SB fine last season. 2000 yards wont bring us another ring. Wallace becoming a beast in the playoffs is what we need from him.

Here is an example:

Randy Moss had his best season as a Patriot 2005. Dude has twenty three TDs that year, ridiculous. AMAZING, in the regular season.

That season in the playoffs, Moss had 7 catches for 94 yards and a single touchdown. That is the ENTIRE PLAYOFFS. Lost the SB.

Holmes had NINE CATCHES for 131 and a TD in the SB alone.

We dont need amazing athlete blazing speed "regular season beast, playoff mouse" Moss play from Wallace.

Captain Lemming
08-15-2011, 11:40 PM
Flippy, I get what you and Captain are saying ... but I still disagree.
You can't always go by stats and end results. Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl ring as a QB, while Dan Marino never won one. Can we say that Dilfer was a better QB than Marino?

Dilfer was not SB MVP.


If we want to compare Wallace to Holmes, what real difference is there other than the final drives in their respective Super Bowls? But is that a fair comparison as to who's the better receiver?

That is the difference between winning and losing the SB. THAT is my point.


1. The Packers had a much better defense than the Cardinals.
Granted

2. Holmes had Whisenhunt calling plays, while Wallace had Arians.
Whis did coach in that SB true, you got me there....wait...he coached .FOR THE CARDS. :lol:
What you are saying is that Holmes had an MVP SB.....despite idiot Arians as coach...You make my point.

3. In the final drive in the SB against the Packers, Randle El lined up on the wrong side on third down, confusing the other receivers, including Wallace, who threw his hands up in the air in confusion. That situation didn't happen with Holmes against the Cardinals.
Excuse for ONE is FOUR opportunities.

Hows this. 1st and 10 at PIT 22. First play Kemo holds and it is first and 20 at the 12. I say THAT mistake hurt worse. How do you fix that?

B.Roethlisberger pass short right to S.Holmes to PIT 26 for 14 yards
B.Roethlisberger pass incomplete deep right to N.Washington
B.Roethlisberger pass short right to S.Holmes to PIT 39 for 13 yards


Basically, there are other factors that have to be considered other than just judging Wallace and Holmes on stats.

Agreed. By NUMBERS in the regular season you are absolutely right about Wallace NOW.

It is WHEN you perform, not just raw numbers. Don't want numbers I want clutch.

I am old enough to remember Lynn Swann. His regular season numbers were nothing special. Right now Wallace is like Cliff Branch. Insane speed, bigger numbers than our guys, but come playoff time Swann and Stallworth performed DESPITE less raw talent.

I want Wallace to grow, I really do. I want him to succeed. A goal of 2000 yards is not what he needs. I dont care if he get 250 yards and 3 TDs in a regular season crushing of the Bengals (well that would be kinda cool....its always fun crushing the Bengals :)).

But he needs to be the go to guy when we have a chance in the SB.

Wallace108
08-16-2011, 12:17 AM
OK, I plead temporary insanity when I suggested Whisenhunt was our OC in Super Bowl 43. Actually, I blame the beer. http://r28.imgfast.net/users/2815/14/51/45/smiles/1797695198.gif


Holmes had NINE CATCHES for 131 and a TD in the SB alone.
Correct. But most of those numbers came on the final drive, when the Cards were playing a soft D. The reason Holmes got the MVP was because of the final catch. Had any other receiver caught that pass, Ben would have been MVP. Other than the final catch, Holmes didn't do anything spectacular on the final drive. He found openings in a soft D, the line gave Ben time, and Ben found him. The O-Line, which had been crappy all season, deserves more credit for that final drive than Holmes does.

I don't think it's fair to compare the postseason success of Holmes and Wallace. Last season was Wallace's second year in the league, and first as a starter. How much did Holmes contribute to our playoff success his first two years in the league?

So there's no confusion, let me state/restate a few points:
1. After 2 years in the league, do I think Wallace is as good as Holmes was when the Steelers traded him? No. But I think he's pretty close. And after his second year, Wallace is much better than Holmes was after his second year.
2. No way in hell do I think Wallace is going to get anywhere near 2,000 yards this season. But I love his confidence. Last season, he made a few comments that came across as cocky ... but I think he backed them up on the field. As I stated in my original post, I'm OK with his confidence and cockiness, just as long as he doesn't become an egomaniac.
3. I respect your guys' opinions, and I love a good debate. :Cheers

Captain Lemming
08-16-2011, 12:32 AM
Think back over Santonio's career with the Steelers. How many games can you remember him coming up big in? I can remember three, including the Super Bowl against the Cardinals.

I watched Swann and Stallworth. I dont "remember" many regular season games.


Obviously, the Super Bowl was his biggest game. But he was nonexistent until the final drive.

If a bomb had blown up the stadium before our last drive, Santonio would have died our leading receiver in the SB.

Santonio had over half of Ben's total yards that day.


And let's be honest ... it wasn't a top-notch defense they were going up against ... it was the Cardinals. And on the final drive, they were playing essentially a prevent defense. There was a lot of stuff open underneath and in the middle of the field, which the Steelers took advantage of.

But a "prevent" will KILL Wallace's game, which is the problem in these situations.


That doesn't exactly make Holmes the second coming of Jerry Rice.

True but Santonio holds the single superbowl yardage record for the Steelers.

That is rare air considering that some of the best receiving games in SB history were done by Swann and Stallworth. Stop trying to downplay it.


The real credit goes to Ben playing behind that poor excuse for an offensive line. But yeah, Holmes made a miraculous catch to win the game. But he also dropped what would have been the game winner on the previous play. Had Ben not made an unbelievable throw on the final pass, Holmes could have been the goat instead of the hero.

Yes, but Santonio actually BEAT SOMEBODY to the ball five TIMES in that ONE drive. He dropped one pass. Wallace for all his speed could not do that ONCE in the final drive.

Captain Lemming
08-16-2011, 12:58 AM
Correct. But most of those numbers came on the final drive, when the Cards were playing a soft D. The reason Holmes got the MVP was because of the final catch. Had any other receiver caught that pass, Ben would have been MVP. Other than the final catch, Holmes didn't do anything spectacular on the final drive. He found openings in a soft D, the line gave Ben time, and Ben found him. The O-Line, which had been crappy all season, deserves more credit for that final drive than Holmes does.

Since you credit Ben so much, how good has he been in the SB without Santonio?

Pre Holmes: Statistically worst winning QB in SB history. Horrible. 22.7 QB rating.

Post Holmes against Green Bay only a 77 rating two picks and he could not make a winning TD march. Lost the game.

SB with Holmes: Ben ONLY good SB. Holmes gets over half Ben's total yardage. Santonio gets all but 15 yards on a 78 yard drive drive that was at one point 1st and 20 on the 12.

If Ben were not COMPLETELY depending on Holmes at that point he would have not thrown to him AGAIN after the drop. If ANYBODY ELSE was open it would be an easier throw. Why didnt he go elsewhere.

Bottom line: As much as we praise Ben for being clutch, Ben has been a BAD SB QB without Santonio. We need Wallace or somebody else to be able to fulfill that role in the clutch.


I don't think it's fair to compare the postseason success of Holmes and Wallace. Last season was Wallace's second year in the league, and first as a starter. How much did Holmes contribute to our playoff success his first two years in the league?

THIS I CAN AGREE WITH. I want Wallace to be better. He has the talent. Just don't anoint the dude prematurely, when he DID NOT get it done like Santonio did.


So there's no confusion, let me state/restate a few points:
1. After 2 years in the league, do I think Wallace is as good as Holmes was when the Steelers traded him? No. But I think he's pretty close. And after his second year, Wallace is much better than Holmes was after his second year.

No disagreement here. Wallace has higher upside.

flippy
08-16-2011, 01:10 AM
OK, I plead temporary insanity when I suggested Whisenhunt was our OC in Super Bowl 43. Actually, I blame the beer. http://r28.imgfast.net/users/2815/14/51/45/smiles/1797695198.gif


Holmes had NINE CATCHES for 131 and a TD in the SB alone.
Correct. But most of those numbers came on the final drive, when the Cards were playing a soft D. The reason Holmes got the MVP was because of the final catch. Had any other receiver caught that pass, Ben would have been MVP. Other than the final catch, Holmes didn't do anything spectacular on the final drive. He found openings in a soft D, the line gave Ben time, and Ben found him. The O-Line, which had been crappy all season, deserves more credit for that final drive than Holmes does.

I don't think it's fair to compare the postseason success of Holmes and Wallace. Last season was Wallace's second year in the league, and first as a starter. How much did Holmes contribute to our playoff success his first two years in the league?

So there's no confusion, let me state/restate a few points:
1. After 2 years in the league, do I think Wallace is as good as Holmes was when the Steelers traded him? No. But I think he's pretty close. And after his second year, Wallace is much better than Holmes was after his second year.
2. No way in hell do I think Wallace is going to get anywhere near 2,000 yards this season. But I love his confidence. Last season, he made a few comments that came across as cocky ... but I think he backed them up on the field. As I stated in my original post, I'm OK with his confidence and cockiness, just as long as he doesn't become an egomaniac.
3. I respect your guys' opinions, and I love a good debate. :Cheers

Wallace is great for his second year and especially considering he was a 3rd round draft choice. And he's gonna get better. Most WRs break out in their 3rd/4th season. And I expect him to start running more routes this season. And then putting the polish on next year.

Really Santonio's got a different skill set as a WR. Wallace is never gonna run routes like Santonio. And Santonio's never gonna blow by guys giving him a 15 yard cushion.

If Mike Wallace can do the things Santonio does well in these next 2 years, we could be talking about this guy as someone that has the potential to be on of the best of all time.

But right now, it's a little premature.

And imho, the play Holmes made in the SuperBowl was the catch that set up the TD pass. That catch and run was the play that made that drive. Without it, the toe tap never happens.

Here's a good way to watch the difference between Holmes and Wallace. Wallace gets separation with his speed. But Santonio turns on his burst when the ball's in the air.

Wallace needs to use his route running to lull DBs to sleep. When he learns to harness his speed rather than just run by guys, that's when the NFL will become his oyster.

Wallace108
08-16-2011, 01:13 AM
Larry Brown "came up big" in Super Bowl XXX and was named MVP. Does that mean he was a great DB? Or was he just in the right place at the right time and made the plays? As I've said, other than the final catch, Holmes didn't do anything spectacular in the Super Bowl, even on the final drive. He was in the right places at the right time and made the plays. Don't get me wrong ... I'm not saying Holmes sucked. He was a good WR.


Yes, but Santonio actually BEAT SOMEBODY to the ball five TIMES in that ONE drive. He dropped one pass. Wallace for all his speed could not do that ONCE in the final drive.
You can't blame Wallace for the final drive. Let's look at it:

1st Down: Wallace blows by the coverage and was wide open. Under pressure, Ben never looked his way and threw across the middle to Miller for a first down.

1st Down: Ben looks right the entire time and throws a quick out to Ward.
2nd Down: Randle El lines up on the wrong side creating confusion. Wallace throws his hands up in the air thinking he doesn't know the play. Ben throws the ball out of bounds.
3rd Down: Ben throws the ball with no receiver near it.
4th Down: Ben throws to Wallace, and the pass is broken up. Watch the play ... Ben threw it late and high, which allowed the DB to get a hand on it. Ben was looking for Wallace the whole time. Had he thrown it sooner, it would have been completed for a first down.

I'm not sure how any of this was Wallace's fault. And I'm not sure how Holmes would have made any difference if he was on the field in place of Wallace.
------------------------

After typing all this, I went back and rewatched the final drives of both Super Bowls. The Cards actually played more aggressively on defense than I remembered. The one thing I did notice though had nothing to do with the receivers and everything to do with Ben. On the final drive against the Cards, Ben was money with every pass, especially the game-winning pass. Against the Packers, his passes were off. Watch the final drives, and then ask yourself if Holmes would have made a difference against the Packers.

Wallace108
08-16-2011, 01:24 AM
Really Santonio's got a different skill set as a WR. Wallace is never gonna run routes like Santonio. And Santonio's never gonna blow by guys giving him a 15 yard cushion.
That's a good point, flippy. I don't think there's any question that Wallace needs to work more on his route running. I saw improvement last year over his rookie year, but he needs to get better. I can't wait to see how much he improves this season.

RuthlessBurgher
08-16-2011, 10:37 AM
Really Santonio's got a different skill set as a WR. Wallace is never gonna run routes like Santonio. And Santonio's never gonna blow by guys giving him a 15 yard cushion.
That's a good point, flippy. I don't think there's any question that Wallace needs to work more on his route running. I saw improvement last year over his rookie year, but he needs to get better. I can't wait to see how much he improves this season.

Manny Sanders and Antonio Brown are the two guys on our roster who could potentially run routes like Santonio. Similar body styles and skill sets.

hawaiiansteel
09-27-2011, 01:50 AM
Nobody is laughing at Steelers' Wallace now

By Dejan Kovacevic, PITTSBURGH TRIBUNE-REVIEW
Tuesday, September 27, 2011

http://files.pittsburghlive.com/photos/2011-09-26/0927SteelWallacCAP-a.jpg

Steelers speedy wide receiver Mike Wallace set his goal to be a 2,000-yard wide receiver this season, and nobody seemed to grasp that the man was serious.


"Don't you know, I'm a 2000 man, and my kids, they just don't understand me at all."

Those lyrics for the classic "2000 Man," originally conceived by the Rolling Stones, famously covered by Kiss, might as well be pinned above Mike Wallace's stall in the Steelers' locker room.

He set his goal to be a 2,000-yard wide receiver this season.

And nobody seemed to grasp that the man was serious.

"Ha!" Wallace said after his seven catches spurred the 23-20 victory Sunday night over the Indianapolis Colts. "Doesn't seem like a joke anymore, does it?"

Not in the slightest, as one look atop the NFL's receiving charts illustrates: Wallace's 377 yards ranks No. 2 in the league to the 458 of New England's Wes Welker, only Wallace has achieved that in half as many catches (21) as Welker (42). Wallace's 18 yards per catch ranks No. 1. The 21 catches are tied for third. The 18 first-down catches rank No. 2. The five catches of 20-plus yards rank No. 5.

And that 2,000 thing?

He is on pace for a sweetly symmetrical 2,011 yards in the 2011 season.

"You know, this is just the start, man," Wallace said. "We're only three games into the season. Long way to go."

It will be even longer than Wallace's breathtaking 81-yard touchdown catch late in the first quarter, the latest example of why so many inside the game consider him the NFL's best big-play man.

The Colts guarded against that most of the evening with a conservative Cover-2 defense, but there was no script to stop a play like this: Ben Roethlisberger, replicating a throw he and Wallace were practicing on the Lucas Oil Stadium field just an hour before kickoff, planted himself at the Steelers' 12 and heaved a ball high and deep.

Too far, it seemed initially, for Wallace.

If there is such a thing.

As Roethlisberger recalled, Wallace "put it into overdrive" in blowing by Indianapolis safety David Caldwell and linebacker Pat Angerer, then caught the ball at the Indianapolis 35 — that's 43 yards it traveled in the air — before impressively pulling away from the pack to prance into the end zone.

"That's Mike," fellow receiver Hines Ward said. "He blows the top off a defense."

"We just took what they gave us," Wallace said with a shrug.

That's how Wallace answers most questions about big plays these days. But mention a few of the other catches that accounted for his 144 total yards, and he lights up.

"I take a lot of pride in that because I want to be a complete receiver," Wallace said. "That 81-yard touchdown, it was cool, but I'm used to doing that. I want to get some of those 5-yarders and turn those into 81-yarders. That's my goal, to do it all."

Wallace has been doing plenty of that, to the degree he has been Roethlisberger's primary short target. He is coming back to the play when the quarterback scrambles, even running routes across the middle, and he has looked plenty comfortable.

He sounds comfortable, too, with the idea that he belongs among the NFL's elite.

"If I don't have confidence in myself to be that, who will?" Wallace said. "I always have to feel like I'm one of the best, if not the best. Now, I know when I say that, everybody's going to go crazy. But that's just the way I feel. That's the way I have to feel. I have to set those kinds of goals for myself."

His goal of 2,000 yards never has been achieved. The NFL record of 1,848 was set 16 years ago by Jerry Rice.

"We'll see," Wallace said. "That's all I'm saying right now."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsbu ... z1Z7aONTSL (http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/sports/steelers/s_758856.html#ixzz1Z7aONTSL)