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View Full Version : Steelers # 1 re-sign priority is....



insanesteelersfan
07-22-2011, 01:06 AM
....Not L.Woodley, or Ike Taylor! It is without a doubt WR Mike Wallace fans. And please don't even argue this. Mike is easily the best 3rd round pick in a long time. I mean we are not even a High passing amount team, and look what this kid has done. In two seasons he has more yards and TD's then Andre Johnson got his first two seasons in the league, and Johnson is the highest paid WR in the league at 74 Million over 7 years. And Charger Vincent Jackson...who sat out 11 games last season cause he did NOT take the Chargers offer of 6 years for 64 million has NEVER had a season yet as good as Wallace's season last year. Jackson has 28 total TD's in 6 years...Wallace has 16 over his first TWO years.


People please, with Ward close to retiring, and we still don't know how good either Sanders or Brown can be,,,re-signing Wallace, who will be a " Restricted " free agent after this season IF the new CBA stays the same as it was the last time, you KNOW owners like Uncle Al in Oakland...who ADORES " Speed "...and Washington Money Bags Daniel Snyder will be " CREAMING " all over themselves to sign Wallace to Big Bucks. The Steelers HAVE to avoid this by re-signing Wallace ASAP!!


Cause I doubt the Rooney's will ever match a offer from either of those two owners who you know would go way way overboard to try and obtain the speedy WR services. This is our # 1 priority fans. Not Woodley...although he to IS very Important. And certainly NOT a 31 year old CB who couldn't catch a cold sitting outside naked in Alaska in January....let alone catch a Ball for a Interception on a consistant basis.



Re-sign " MIKE WALLACE "!!!

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
07-22-2011, 01:23 AM
....Not L.Woodley, or Ike Taylor! It is without a doubt WR Mike Wallace fans. And please don't even argue this. Mike is easily the best 3rd round pick in a long time. I mean we are not even a High passing amount team, and look what this kid has done. In two seasons he has more yards and TD's then Andre Johnson got his first two seasons in the league, and Johnson is the highest paid WR in the league at 74 Million over 7 years. And Charger Vincent Jackson...who sat out 11 games last season cause he did NOT take the Chargers offer of 6 years for 64 million has NEVER had a season yet as good as Wallace's season last year. Jackson has 28 total TD's in 6 years...Wallace has 16 over his first TWO years.


People please, with Ward close to retiring, and we still don't know how good either Sanders or Brown can be,,,re-signing Wallace, who will be a " Restricted " free agent after this season IF the new CBA stays the same as it was the last time, you KNOW owners like Uncle Al in Oakland...who ADORES " Speed "...and Washington Money Bags Daniel Snyder will be " CREAMING " all over themselves to sign Wallace to Big Bucks. The Steelers HAVE to avoid this by re-signing Wallace ASAP!!


Cause I doubt the Rooney's will ever match a offer from either of those two owners who you know would go way way overboard to try and obtain the speedy WR services. This is our # 1 priority fans. Not Woodley...although he to IS very Important. And certainly NOT a 31 year old CB who couldn't catch a cold sitting outside naked in Alaska in January....let alone catch a Ball for a Interception on a consistant basis.



Re-sign " MIKE WALLACE "!!!

What do you mean? The guy did not even make the "Top 100 players of 2011" :wink:

insanesteelersfan
07-22-2011, 01:40 AM
....Not L.Woodley, or Ike Taylor! It is without a doubt WR Mike Wallace fans. And please don't even argue this. Mike is easily the best 3rd round pick in a long time. I mean we are not even a High passing amount team, and look what this kid has done. In two seasons he has more yards and TD's then Andre Johnson got his first two seasons in the league, and Johnson is the highest paid WR in the league at 74 Million over 7 years. And Charger Vincent Jackson...who sat out 11 games last season cause he did NOT take the Chargers offer of 6 years for 64 million has NEVER had a season yet as good as Wallace's season last year. Jackson has 28 total TD's in 6 years...Wallace has 16 over his first TWO years.


People please, with Ward close to retiring, and we still don't know how good either Sanders or Brown can be,,,re-signing Wallace, who will be a " Restricted " free agent after this season IF the new CBA stays the same as it was the last time, you KNOW owners like Uncle Al in Oakland...who ADORES " Speed "...and Washington Money Bags Daniel Snyder will be " CREAMING " all over themselves to sign Wallace to Big Bucks. The Steelers HAVE to avoid this by re-signing Wallace ASAP!!


Cause I doubt the Rooney's will ever match a offer from either of those two owners who you know would go way way overboard to try and obtain the speedy WR services. This is our # 1 priority fans. Not Woodley...although he to IS very Important. And certainly NOT a 31 year old CB who couldn't catch a cold sitting outside naked in Alaska in January....let alone catch a Ball for a Interception on a consistant basis.



Re-sign " MIKE WALLACE "!!!

What do you mean? The guy did not even make the "Top 100 players of 2011" :wink:




Other peoples stupidity doesn't concern me. Fact is that Wallace had a great 2nd season when he wasn't a surprise to anyone like he was in his rookie season. And yet he still performed. The fact that WR's like Reggie Wayne, and even Andre Johnson made the Pro Bowl over Wallace was stupid. No doubt Brandon Lloyd and Bowe of KC deserved to go. But Wayne only made it cause of his " Hype " Yes he had 111 catches, but he also only averaged barely over 12 Yds a catch, and had only 6 TD's. And he played on a Colts team that averages 55 pass attempts a game!!


Bottom line is if Wallace has a season this year where he ups his catches to say 75-80 for over 1,500 to 1,00 Yds and 12 + TD's...you can forget about re-signing Wallace then cause he and his agent will KNOW that other more prominant passing teams with owners who pay BIG for them will be climbing all over themselves to sign Wallace. Which is why the Steelers MUST re-sign him as soon as possible.

hawaiiansteel
07-22-2011, 02:53 AM
....Not L.Woodley, or Ike Taylor! It is without a doubt WR Mike Wallace fans. And please don't even argue this




instead of taking your word for it maybe we should just let our front office decide whether Troy Polamalu, Ike Taylor, Lamarr Woodley, Lawrence Timmons or Mike Wallace will be the Steelers' #1 priority to re-sign...

RuthlessBurgher
07-22-2011, 08:49 AM
If he's a restricted free agent after this season, we can give him a high tender requiring much draft compensation (such as a 1st and 3rd round pick) in addition to the huge contract another team could offer him (which we could decide to match anyway). Wallace is a big deal to extend in the near future (I've always been sure to include his name along with the likes to Ike, Woodley, Timmons, and Troy when explaining why people on this board shouldn't be holding their breath when they get all hot-and-bothered about signing other teams' big name free agents), but he's not the biggest immediate priority at this time.

insanesteelersfan
07-22-2011, 10:38 AM
If he's a restricted free agent after this season, we can give him a high tender requiring much draft compensation (such as a 1st and 3rd round pick) in addition to the huge contract another team could offer him (which we could decide to match anyway). Wallace is a big deal to extend in the near future (I've always been sure to include his name along with the likes to Ike, Woodley, Timmons, and Troy when explaining why people on this board shouldn't be holding their breath when they get all hot-and-bothered about signing other teams' big name free agents), but he's not the biggest immediate priority at this time.



Sorry but I disagree. Woodley, Timmons, even Troy, we have decent to good young players to replace them. As for Wallace, who do we have ? Wallace is protection for our most valuable player in Ben. Like I said, Woodley is Important as well. And Troy is a great Character player who is very popular, even with his rather risky health. But Timmons is replaceable just like Harrison is in my opinion. Sure I would love to keep them all. But the single most important one of the bunch IS Wallace,,,,and it's not even close.

flippy
07-22-2011, 10:38 AM
I like Mike Wallace. But we can wait on him. We need to figure out the D.

Ben + D = Championships

At the end of the day, Wallace is just a WR. A good one, but these guys are a dime a dozen. And we could be fine with Brown, Sanders, Miller as our primary targets in another year if we had to be.

insanesteelersfan
07-22-2011, 10:46 AM
I like Mike Wallace. But we can wait on him. We need to figure out the D.

Ben + D = Championships

At the end of the day, Wallace is just a WR. A good one, but these guys are a dime a dozen. And we could be fine with Brown, Sanders, Miller as our primary targets in another year if we had to be.




Wallace is JUST another guy ??? Was Swann ? Or Stalworth JUST another guy ? And Wallace is so far ahead of either of those two,,,as well as Hines, and you say he is JUST another guy ? And to say that Sanders or Brown can replace him and his THREAT and Speed is just as ridiculous of a statement that has ever been spoken. Watch, if, and I do say IF Wallace has a big season this year, and he is NOT Re-signed to a new deal, you can definitely color him gone. Cause no way will the Cheap Rooney's ever pay Wallace what Snyder will offer him. Which I will assume will be a 7 year, 135 Million deal with 60 million guaranteed in a signing bonus. And then you will be :HeadBanger ...cause we let him get away.

Eddie Spaghetti
07-22-2011, 10:49 AM
But Timmons is replaceable just like Harrison is in my opinion. Sure I would love to keep them all. But the single most important one of the bunch IS Wallace,,,,and it's not even close.

this is just too funny. somebody just started watching the NFL.

and the "cheap rooneys" are reportedly 10 million over the salary cap.

thanks for the laugh chief.

ikestops85
07-22-2011, 10:50 AM
If he's a restricted free agent after this season, we can give him a high tender requiring much draft compensation (such as a 1st and 3rd round pick) in addition to the huge contract another team could offer him (which we could decide to match anyway). Wallace is a big deal to extend in the near future (I've always been sure to include his name along with the likes to Ike, Woodley, Timmons, and Troy when explaining why people on this board shouldn't be holding their breath when they get all hot-and-bothered about signing other teams' big name free agents), but he's not the biggest immediate priority at this time.



Sorry but I disagree. Woodley, Timmons, even Troy, we have decent to good young players to replace them. As for Wallace, who do we have ? Wallace is protection for our most valuable player in Ben. Like I said, Woodley is Important as well. And Troy is a great Character player who is very popular, even with his rather risky health. But Timmons is replaceable just like Harrison is in my opinion. Sure I would love to keep them all. But the single most important one of the bunch IS Wallace,,,,and it's not even close.

I agree that signing Wallace is a big priority. I'm not sure that he is the current #1 priority but he is up there. My question to you is what good young player do we have to replace Troy? Hell, we don't even have someone who can replace Ryan Clark let alone Troy. :wink:

insanesteelersfan
07-22-2011, 11:23 AM
If he's a restricted free agent after this season, we can give him a high tender requiring much draft compensation (such as a 1st and 3rd round pick) in addition to the huge contract another team could offer him (which we could decide to match anyway). Wallace is a big deal to extend in the near future (I've always been sure to include his name along with the likes to Ike, Woodley, Timmons, and Troy when explaining why people on this board shouldn't be holding their breath when they get all hot-and-bothered about signing other teams' big name free agents), but he's not the biggest immediate priority at this time.



Sorry but I disagree. Woodley, Timmons, even Troy, we have decent to good young players to replace them. As for Wallace, who do we have ? Wallace is protection for our most valuable player in Ben. Like I said, Woodley is Important as well. And Troy is a great Character player who is very popular, even with his rather risky health. But Timmons is replaceable just like Harrison is in my opinion. Sure I would love to keep them all. But the single most important one of the bunch IS Wallace,,,,and it's not even close.

I agree that signing Wallace is a big priority. I'm not sure that he is the current #1 priority but he is up there. My question to you is what good young player do we have to replace Troy? Hell, we don't even have someone who can replace Ryan Clark let alone Troy. :wink:




Troy is a great player yes. But he is more of a great at certain moments player then a great consistant player. Troy has more then his share of games where he constantly whiffs on tackles, and gets out of position. Plus Troy does not love football. This is a well known fact. Yes I would like Troy re-signed cause he IS a " Big Play " player who can make the HUGE play at the right moment. But I would wait on him cause IF Troy has another season this year where he struggles with either missing games due to Injury, or plays injured like he did alot last year and basically was Ineffective at KEY moments last season, especially in the playoffs, then is it really smart of the Steelers to invest in a soon to be 32 year old Safety who is clearly breaking down physically ?


I say No! It is way more Important to secure a young, and very talented WR in Wallace. And even though I know when healthy it is Impossible to replace a player like Troy. Facts are that Ryan Mundy did a good job when replacing him. And I can see players like C.Butler or even Lewis being moved to Safety and doing very well if need be. But who is gonna replace Wallace ? Neither Sanders or Brown has true # 1 ability at WR. So who ?.....Limas Sweed :nono :nono :nono :nono :nono :nono

flippy
07-22-2011, 11:54 AM
How many SuperBowls has Randy Moss won? He tore it up with Brady in NE in 07 and what did it get them?

I just think the WR position is the most overhyped position in professional sports. Give me a decent group of WRs and a franchise QB and we'll be fine.

I love Mike Wallace. Kid's a freak. And he adds value with his ability to stretch the field and rip the top off the coverage. But he's just a WR to me.

The way I look at football, winning is 60% QB, 39% D, and 1% everyone else. OK, that's random and off the top of my head, but I'll go with it to illustrate the point I'm trying to get across.

So the way I see it any WR is only impacting 1% of the equation of winning. So if I spend $500k on the worst WR in the league or $10M+ on the best WR in the league, the impact is only a 1% differential at most.

Troy, Timmons, Woodley, Ike, etc. are all a big part of that 39% of the winning equation. I've got Troy as the biggest part of that 39% and that's why he's my top priority. He is the defense as it stands today. And there's no comparison whatsoever imho. With Troy we're a SuperBowl contender. Without Wallace, we're still a SuperBowl contender.

And it's nothing against Wallace. Like I said, I love the kid.

But we'd most likely be ok on offense even if Sweed has to start.

We're not ok with Mundy. Nothing against him either. I like him more than most do. But he changes the entire defensive dynamic vs Troy.

insanesteelersfan
07-22-2011, 12:07 PM
How many SuperBowls has Randy Moss won? He tore it up with Brady in NE in 07 and what did it get them?

I just think the WR position is the most overhyped position in professional sports. Give me a decent group of WRs and a franchise QB and we'll be fine.

I love Mike Wallace. Kid's a freak. And he adds value with his ability to stretch the field and rip the top off the coverage. But he's just a WR to me.

The way I look at football, winning is 60% QB, 39% D, and 1% everyone else. OK, that's random and off the top of my head, but I'll go with it to illustrate the point I'm trying to get across.

So the way I see it any WR is only impacting 1% of the equation of winning. So if I spend $500k on the worst WR in the league or $10M+ on the best WR in the league, the impact is only a 1% differential at most.

Troy, Timmons, Woodley, Ike, etc. are all a big part of that 39% of the winning equation. I've got Troy as the biggest part of that 39% and that's why he's my top priority. He is the defense as it stands today. And there's no comparison whatsoever imho. With Troy we're a SuperBowl contender. Without Wallace, we're still a SuperBowl contender.

And it's nothing against Wallace. Like I said, I love the kid.

But we'd most likely be ok on offense even if Sweed has to start.

We're not ok with Mundy. Nothing against him either. I like him more than most do. But he changes the entire defensive dynamic vs Troy.




And what exactly did that defense do against the Packers ?????? And that's a Packer offense that was missing their BEST 3 out of 4 weapons as well ??? You cherry-pick Moss as an example. But you fail to mention that Moss, as talented PHYSICALLY as he is, was also a MAJOR team distraction with his attitude, off the field issues and HUGE Ego. In two seasons where he has really achieved...what distraction has Wallace become ?????? All the kid does is listen to his elders, works his A_S_S off. And get better. THOSE types of players regardless of position is what we MUST have son. The Steelers have lost LB after LB time and time again,,,and when,,,WHEN has it ever hurt us ? Did it when Lloyd left ?...Hardy Nickerson ? Earl Holmes ? K.Bell ? Joey Porter ? L.Kirkland ? Jason Gildon ?,,,ect,,ect,ect,ect,ect,ect....and I think you get the picture. It's our SYSTEM that makes the players like Woodley, and Harrison, and Timmons. It is SUPER hard for a WR to thrive in our system, let alone do all the little things like Blocking, catching over the middle, AND be a good citizen as well. Kinda like Hines Ward. And when you find a WR like that. You make DAMN SURE you secure that WR long term. Even AT the potential cost of a LB like Harrison, or Woodley or Timmons. Cause as I have CLEARLY shown you...THEY..not WR's are a " Dime " O " Dozen " in our system.

pittpete
07-22-2011, 12:29 PM
Steeler fans attacking Steeler fans.
What a show :lol: :lol: :lol:

insanesteelersfan
07-22-2011, 12:36 PM
Steeler fans attacking Steeler fans.
What a show :lol: :lol: :lol:


Hey " Bench Warmer "...You need to learn the difference between ATTACKING...and DEBATING!

pittpete
07-22-2011, 01:04 PM
It was a joke and I see your a benchwarmer also :oops:

flippy
07-22-2011, 01:25 PM
THOSE types of players regardless of position is what we MUST have son.

OK grandpa. You older fellas get a little worked up over this stuff. You could probably use a little football to ease your mind. :)

We can agree to disagree on this one. In your world, WRs are more valuable than defensive players. In my worldview it's the opposite.

Using your logic, we shouldn't have won a SuperBowl the year after we let Plax go. So I suppose that's an exception, not a rule.

I just don't see WRs being difference makers in winning championships. The only reason I used Moss as an example is he's got no peer. And his first season in NE was one of the greatest I've ever seen from a WR. And he wasn't a problem. He fit in perfectly by all accounts. And the end result was the Pats didn't win the SUperBowl.

There's a lot that goes into winning SuperBowls, but in my mind, WRs just aren't that big a part of the equation.

If our WRs are Ward, Randle El, Brown, Sanders, and Sweed and we keep our D in tact, we've got a legit shot at a SB next year.

If we lose some of our key defensive starters, we're screwed.

Mike Wallace is a nice to have.

Not a difference maker.

And just to be clear, I love Wallace and want to keep him. He's just not the priority.

Heck, I'd even go as far as saying we'd be competitive with Tyler Grisham and Limas Sweed as our starters. Neither is close to Wallace. It's just the nautre of the position, not the player.

Have a nice day.

Shawn
07-22-2011, 02:11 PM
There are only 3 guys on offense that I consider guys the Steelers must keep...and Wallace is one of them. Ben. Pouncey and Wallace are the only guys I say we are unable to replace with ease. While I really like Mendenhall, I'm of the camp that quite a few average RB talents can crack 1000 yards+.

hawaiiansteel
07-22-2011, 02:11 PM
Steeler fans attacking Steeler fans.
What a show :lol: :lol: :lol:


Hey " Bench Warmer "...You need to learn the difference between ATTACKING...and DEBATING!


calling another poster a "Bench Warmer" sounds like attacking and not debating to me...

RuthlessBurgher
07-22-2011, 02:17 PM
Steeler fans attacking Steeler fans.
What a show :lol: :lol: :lol:


Hey " Bench Warmer "...You need to learn the difference between ATTACKING...and DEBATING!

Perhaps you should learn the difference as well. You make some solid points, but your confrontational style of presenting them is off-putting. Different opinions are welcome, as long as people aren't acting like jackwagons toward each other. Douchbaggery is frowned upon in these parts.

insanesteelersfan
07-22-2011, 02:35 PM
Steeler fans attacking Steeler fans.
What a show :lol: :lol: :lol:


Hey " Bench Warmer "...You need to learn the difference between ATTACKING...and DEBATING!

Perhaps you should learn the difference as well. You make some solid points, but your confrontational style of presenting them is off-putting. Different opinions are welcome, as long as people aren't acting like jackwagons toward each other. Douchbaggery is frowned upon in these parts.




Sir, I am not saying I don't understand your point of view, I do, and I respect it. I would LOVE to keep all three of Wallace-Timmons and Woodley, and I hope we do. But we have usually overcome defensive departures in the past. As for Flippy's point on Plex leaving, and then we won the SB game. He totally missed my point which was talent is not the main thing as it goes to a WR. Ego and having a poor attitude and work ethic is also KEY for a team having the necessary CHEMISTRY to win. Losing Plex was addition by subtraction. But with Wallace I personally feel he is the opposite of someone like Plex, and Randy Moss. Wallace has been a Hard worker, and a great kid both on the field and off it. I mean have you ever heard a hint of trouble regarding Wallace ? They said he couldn't catch consistently...and he has. Then they said he lacked toughness to Block and go over the middle on short to medium routes,,,but he has done that as well. Everything I see in this kid tells me he is another Hines Ward,,,,only with MUCH better natural Athleticism.


All I'm saying is that given the scope of the league when it comes to free agents, WR like Wallace can and WILL get huge ridiculous offers IF they reach free agency from the likes of Snyder and Al Davis. I'm not saying that players like Woodley and Timmons won't receive any interest. But it won't be as high. I just wanna avoid over-paying someone like Ike Taylor, and risk losing a player like Wallace in a year, or a Woodley or Timmons. Especially since we have addressed the CB position in the past 2 drafts. If we have to let him walk, let him walk. And then lets keep Wallace-Timmons and Woodley.



That's all I'm saying.

RuthlessBurgher
07-22-2011, 03:34 PM
Steeler fans attacking Steeler fans.
What a show :lol: :lol: :lol:


Hey " Bench Warmer "...You need to learn the difference between ATTACKING...and DEBATING!

Perhaps you should learn the difference as well. You make some solid points, but your confrontational style of presenting them is off-putting. Different opinions are welcome, as long as people aren't acting like jackwagons toward each other. Douchbaggery is frowned upon in these parts.




Sir, I am not saying I don't understand your point of view, I do, and I respect it. I would LOVE to keep all three of Wallace-Timmons and Woodley, and I hope we do. But we have usually overcome defensive departures in the past. As for Flippy's point on Plex leaving, and then we won the SB game. He totally missed my point which was talent is not the main thing as it goes to a WR. Ego and having a poor attitude and work ethic is also KEY for a team having the necessary CHEMISTRY to win. Losing Plex was addition by subtraction. But with Wallace I personally feel he is the opposite of someone like Plex, and Randy Moss. Wallace has been a Hard worker, and a great kid both on the field and off it. I mean have you ever heard a hint of trouble regarding Wallace ? They said he couldn't catch consistently...and he has. Then they said he lacked toughness to Block and go over the middle on short to medium routes,,,but he has done that as well. Everything I see in this kid tells me he is another Hines Ward,,,,only with MUCH better natural Athleticism.


All I'm saying is that given the scope of the league when it comes to free agents, WR like Wallace can and WILL get huge ridiculous offers IF they reach free agency from the likes of Snyder and Al Davis. I'm not saying that players like Woodley and Timmons won't receive any interest. But it won't be as high. I just wanna avoid over-paying someone like Ike Taylor, and risk losing a player like Wallace in a year, or a Woodley or Timmons. Especially since we have addressed the CB position in the past 2 drafts. If we have to let him walk, let him walk. And then lets keep Wallace-Timmons and Woodley.



That's all I'm saying.

And I agree with all of this. Well thought out and well put. I was just commenting how you seemed to be getting a bit defensive with some of our other posters earlier who had a different opinion than yours, and how there is no real need for that since we tend to be reasonable folks here (for the most part anyway).

flippy
07-22-2011, 05:03 PM
Steeler fans attacking Steeler fans.
What a show :lol: :lol: :lol:


Hey " Bench Warmer "...You need to learn the difference between ATTACKING...and DEBATING!

Perhaps you should learn the difference as well. You make some solid points, but your confrontational style of presenting them is off-putting. Different opinions are welcome, as long as people aren't acting like jackwagons toward each other. Douchbaggery is frowned upon in these parts.




Sir, I am not saying I don't understand your point of view, I do, and I respect it. I would LOVE to keep all three of Wallace-Timmons and Woodley, and I hope we do. But we have usually overcome defensive departures in the past. As for Flippy's point on Plex leaving, and then we won the SB game. He totally missed my point which was talent is not the main thing as it goes to a WR. Ego and having a poor attitude and work ethic is also KEY for a team having the necessary CHEMISTRY to win. Losing Plex was addition by subtraction. But with Wallace I personally feel he is the opposite of someone like Plex, and Randy Moss. Wallace has been a Hard worker, and a great kid both on the field and off it. I mean have you ever heard a hint of trouble regarding Wallace ? They said he couldn't catch consistently...and he has. Then they said he lacked toughness to Block and go over the middle on short to medium routes,,,but he has done that as well. Everything I see in this kid tells me he is another Hines Ward,,,,only with MUCH better natural Athleticism.


All I'm saying is that given the scope of the league when it comes to free agents, WR like Wallace can and WILL get huge ridiculous offers IF they reach free agency from the likes of Snyder and Al Davis. I'm not saying that players like Woodley and Timmons won't receive any interest. But it won't be as high. I just wanna avoid over-paying someone like Ike Taylor, and risk losing a player like Wallace in a year, or a Woodley or Timmons. Especially since we have addressed the CB position in the past 2 drafts. If we have to let him walk, let him walk. And then lets keep Wallace-Timmons and Woodley.



That's all I'm saying.

I miss all kinds of points, that's how I roll :)

I kinda think all WRs are head cases to a degree. It's a flashy position. They make big plays. They're superstar athletes, but they don't touch the ball the majority of the game and it's got be a maddening position to play.

You can argue Plax was addition by subtraction, but I don't agree on that one so much. Eli Manning and the Giants probably wouldn't agree either. Ben had to go through some growing pains too when Plax left and that when he really had to start holding the ball for a fortnight until his receivers had time to get separation and get open.

You could make the case that Santonio's a bigger knucklehead than Plax. Some of the things Plax did made me feel bad for him like he just didn't know any better. Some of the things Santonio did made me think he was intentionally being a jackarse. But even though he was a bit of a headcase, we might not have gotten our last SuperBowl victory without his play on the last series. And if you want to go down the WRs are valuable path, maybe the lack of WR production was the reason we didn't win the last SuperBowl. Wallace wasn't good enough on that last drive. And the others - Ward, Miller, etc are slow as molasses at getting separation.

Maybe your argument would have been stronger along the lines of Santonio was the WR that we couldn't replace. Because as it played out, we had no go to WR stepping up big time in that last SuperBowl like we've seen from Holmes.

Now I'm arguing with myself. Ahh, the world is back to normal :)

grotonsteel
07-22-2011, 09:06 PM
Mike Wallace is important to the team with weak WR corp especially when Hines Ward is almost towards end of his career. He is young and he is still improving especially his route running. I am looking forward to Mike Wallace this season. There is one more WR that i think can be really dangerous and that is Manny Sanders. I hope he has recovered from his surgery. A healthy Manny Sanders could have made a difference on that last drive in SB. I think Wallace and Manny are the future. I don't think Brown is more than a 4th WR and a good PR/KR.

I am hoping Steelers sign Plax to Vet min. Time to cut ARE and Battle.

I disagree Mike Wallace is #1 re-sign priority though. I would group him with Timmons, Woodley and healthy Troy.

Again i would let FO decide on that.

frankthetank1
07-23-2011, 10:12 AM
Mike Wallace is important to the team with weak WR corp especially when Hines Ward is almost towards end of his career. He is young and he is still improving especially his route running. I am looking forward to Mike Wallace this season. There is one more WR that i think can be really dangerous and that is Manny Sanders. I hope he has recovered from his surgery. A healthy Manny Sanders could have made a difference on that last drive in SB. I think Wallace and Manny are the future. I don't think Brown is more than a 4th WR and a good PR/KR.

I am hoping Steelers sign Plax to Vet min. Time to cut ARE and Battle.

I disagree Mike Wallace is #1 re-sign priority though. I would group him with Timmons, Woodley and healthy Troy.

Again i would let FO decide on that.

i dont think you can really say any of those guys timmons, woodley, troy or wallace are a number one priority. i think they are all equally important to re-sign. i think each of those players would be just as difficult to replace. i would like to see ARE and battle gone. they really have nothing to offer. same goes for sweed if he does nothing in camp and preseason. i disagree of your assesment of brown though. he didnt get many balls thrown to him this year for obvious reasons and wasnt active a few games but when he did get playing time he made the most of it. too early to say how good brown will be, but if he progresses well i think he could be a number 2 or 3 wr in the nfl. who knows though.

one thing is certain though mike wallace is a big difference maker. he stretches the field and is a big time deep threat. you take him out of the offense and there is no deep threat. also there is no proven wr in the offense. i love brown and sanders but it was one season. a wr like wallace is so hard to find. never mind his talent but he is a hard working great guy. wr's like that are hard to find.

RuthlessBurgher
07-23-2011, 12:15 PM
I think Manny Sanders has more long term potential than Antonio Brown, but I think for this season, Brown may have a leg up. The offseason between your rookie and sophomore campaigns is vital to step up as a player, and both were forced to miss that because of the lockout, but a least Brown was able to work out with established Pro Bowl receivers like Andre "Best In The Game" Johnson, Chad "Don't Call Me Ochocinco Anymore" Johnson, and Santana "Randy Played On Three Times As Many Teams As But I Had Three Times His Production" Moss, while Manny's ability to work out was hampered because of the need to rehab following surgery after the Super Bowl.

Captain Lemming
07-23-2011, 07:58 PM
THOSE types of players regardless of position is what we MUST have son.
I just don't see WRs being difference makers in winning championships. The only reason I used Moss as an example is he's got no peer. And his first season in NE was one of the greatest I've ever seen from a WR. And he wasn't a problem. He fit in perfectly by all accounts. And the end result was the Pats didn't win the SUperBowl.

I could not agree more.

Brady won ALL his SBs without an elite speed receiver. With Moss zip
Ben won his SBs without an elite speed receiver. Wallace has not helped him win one.

The ONE good postseason game Wallace had was the SB loss.

Wallace has NEVER contributed in any way to an actual post season win.

Troy?
Single handedly made the key play to beat the Ravens in TWO DIFFERENT SEASONS enroute to the SB. No Troy two fewer SB appearances is very possible.

Troy has been a first team allpro three times. All three seasons are the ones where we played in the SB.

2003 (no starts/ only sub 500 season), 2006 (13 starts), and 2009 (5 starts) are the lowest number of starts Troy had during his career. Those are the only seasons we missed the playoffs.

Troy has started all 16 games only three times in his career.
1. 2004, most regular season wins in Steeler history. Lost in the AFCC to a cheating NE team
2. 2005 we won the SB.
3. 2008 we won the SB

Lets get specific and break down a single season. In 2009 we were 4-0 with Troy playing significant minutes 5-7 the rest of the way. The only loss in games Troy started was one where he played in only the first drive before injury.

Great team with Troy. Undefeated. Never gave up more than 17 with Troy that year.
Below average without him. Bad defense. Missed Playoffs.

Yes, Troy IS injury prone.
But the direct contribution to winning that Troy makes is unparalleled IN THIS LEAGUE.

As Troy goes so goes the Steelers.

You cannot say the same about Wallace.

We were champions before Wallace stepped foot onto Hines field.

BradshawsHairdresser
07-24-2011, 12:15 AM
It was a joke and I see your a benchwarmer also :oops:

:lol: :lol: :lol: insane calles out pittpete for being a benchwarmer...when HE is a benchwarmer HIMSELF.
Too funny.

papillon
07-24-2011, 07:53 AM
THOSE types of players regardless of position is what we MUST have son.
I just don't see WRs being difference makers in winning championships. The only reason I used Moss as an example is he's got no peer. And his first season in NE was one of the greatest I've ever seen from a WR. And he wasn't a problem. He fit in perfectly by all accounts. And the end result was the Pats didn't win the SUperBowl.

I could not agree more.

Brady won ALL his SBs without an elite speed receiver. With Moss zip
Ben won his SBs without an elite speed receiver. Wallace has not helped him win one.

The ONE good postseason game Wallace had was the SB loss.

Wallace has NEVER contributed in any way to an actual post season win.

Troy?
Single handedly made the key play to beat the Ravens in TWO DIFFERENT SEASONS enroute to the SB. No Troy two fewer SB appearances is very possible.

Troy has been a first team allpro three times. All three seasons are the ones where we played in the SB.

2003 (no starts/ only sub 500 season), 2006 (13 starts), and 2009 (5 starts) are the lowest number of starts Troy had during his career. Those are the only seasons we missed the playoffs.

Troy has started all 16 games only three times in his career.
1. 2004, most regular season wins in Steeler history. Lost in the AFCC to a cheating NE team
2. 2005 we won the SB.
3. 2008 we won the SB

Lets get specific and break down a single season. In 2009 we were 4-0 with Troy playing significant minutes 5-7 the rest of the way. The only loss in games Troy started was one where he played in only the first drive before injury.

Great team with Troy. Undefeated. Never gave up more than 17 with Troy that year.
Below average without him. Bad defense. Missed Playoffs.

Yes, Troy IS injury prone.
But the direct contribution to winning that Troy makes is unparalleled IN THIS LEAGUE.

As Troy goes so goes the Steelers.

You cannot say the same about Wallace.

We were champions before Wallace stepped foot onto Hines field.

:Bow :Bow :Bow

Pappy

flippy
07-24-2011, 12:57 PM
Good post CL. I often post on my gut feeling about a particular topic and don't always have the stats to back it up. You make a great case that support my line of thinking really well.

Captain Lemming
07-24-2011, 02:18 PM
Good post CL. I often post on my gut feeling about a particular topic and don't always have the stats to back it up. You make a great case that support my line of thinking really well.

The funny thing is that I knew by gut feeling Troys value to the team too. I recalled the Ravens games and that we were worse when he was injured in general terms only.

I had to do research to confirm my "gut feeling" and even surprised myself with the very clear and direct correlation between the Troy's play and Steeler success. When Troy is truly healthy, we rarely lose.

I spent time in that post on the 2008 season where we Troy played significant minutes in only 4 games, we won all yet missed the playoffs.

Does anybody remember that Titans game, the first game of that season? Troy was EVERYWHERE. 6 tackles, and an amazing int....he was hurt in the SECOND QUARTER.

I remember thinking Troy has NEVER been better. Then he got hurt.

flippy
07-24-2011, 06:32 PM
I remember that Titans game like it was yesterday. I think it was Dierdorf that had Troy as DMVP already that year based on his 1st quarter performance.

I remember agreeing and thinking it all clicked for Troy and the rest of the league was done and couldn't ever compete with us again.

I have another suspicion that Timmons could become every bit as valuable, possibly even moreso than Troy. And this is gonna be his year to prove that out.

I can't remember the exact play, but it was either a play against the Raiders or Jaguars that I saw Troy had the angle on a tackle and was about to make it and Timmons flew past him from a further distance and closed on a ball carry and took the tackle away from Troy.

I remember my old man looking at me and saying man is Troy fast. Ive never seen a guy close like that. And I remember having to explain it was Timmons, not Troy and that Timmons is faster.

Captain Lemming
07-24-2011, 11:54 PM
I remember that Titans game like it was yesterday. I think it was Dierdorf that had Troy as DMVP already that year based on his 1st quarter performance.

I remember agreeing and thinking it all clicked for Troy and the rest of the league was done and couldn't ever compete with us again.

I have another suspicion that Timmons could become every bit as valuable, possibly even moreso than Troy. And this is gonna be his year to prove that out.

I can't remember the exact play, but it was either a play against the Raiders or Jaguars that I saw Troy had the angle on a tackle and was about to make it and Timmons flew past him from a further distance and closed on a ball carry and took the tackle away from Troy.

I remember my old man looking at me and saying man is Troy fast. Ive never seen a guy close like that. And I remember having to explain it was Timmons, not Troy and that Timmons is faster.

Timmon IS fast. Insanely fast for an inside LB (Not faster than Troy who timed at 4.3 before the draft, lets not get carried away).
But Timmons is a bigger dude, he aint a secondary guy.

However, speed alone is not what makes Troy look freakishly fast.
Troy has speed AND crazy anticipation.
What make Troy a freak is not just pure speed.
Troy knows where the play is going WAY before it get there.

Troy is fast but he has such range because he reads a play and is going full speed toward where a play is headed when any other player would still be reading the play.

That is why Troy can come from relatively deep and blow up a play in the backfield.

He reads run and "starts" a full sprint to the runner before the QB hands the ball off, sometime at the snap.

Of course "reads" are educated guesses, and Troy does get burned sometimes as a result.

Timmons has rare speed at his position true. He came into the league young and is fast becoming a premier player at his position.

But I dont see him EVER having the anticipation skills of Troy.

Nevertheless, the way he started last season I saw Timmons, not Troy as a DPOY candidate.

If Timmons puts together an entire season like he started last year, he will be without peer at his position.

feltdizz
07-25-2011, 09:43 AM
If Timmon's had Troy's anticipation he would be scary good. The one problem with Timmons is his lack of body control.. he probably left 10 sacks on the field due to this.

Given his age, Timmons has the makings of something special. I just wish he wasn't a bust :wink:

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
07-25-2011, 02:13 PM
If Timmon's had Troy's anticipation he would be scary good. The one problem with Timmons is his lack of body control.. he probably left 10 sacks on the field due to this.

Given his age, Timmons has the makings of something special. I just wish he wasn't a bust :wink:

If Timmons can begin to turn some of those QB pressures into sacks then he will rank up with Willis as the premiere ILB's in the game. As it is he is not that far off.

RuthlessBurgher
07-25-2011, 03:09 PM
If Timmon's had Troy's anticipation he would be scary good. The one problem with Timmons is his lack of body control.. he probably left 10 sacks on the field due to this.

Given his age, Timmons has the makings of something special. I just wish he wasn't a bust :wink:

If Timmons can begin to turn some of those QB pressures into sacks then he will rank up with Willis as the premiere ILB's in the game. As it is he is not that far off.

Timmons not being on the players' top 100 list of 2011 at all, while Ray Lewis being #4 overall is a complete joke. Perhaps Timmons needs to jump on more piles after someone else makes a play, then go into a full body seizure to get recognized.

feltdizz
07-25-2011, 03:20 PM
If Timmon's had Troy's anticipation he would be scary good. The one problem with Timmons is his lack of body control.. he probably left 10 sacks on the field due to this.

Given his age, Timmons has the makings of something special. I just wish he wasn't a bust :wink:

If Timmons can begin to turn some of those QB pressures into sacks then he will rank up with Willis as the premiere ILB's in the game. As it is he is not that far off.

Timmons not being on the players' top 100 list of 2011 at all, while Ray Lewis being #4 overall is a complete joke. Perhaps Timmons needs to jump on more piles after someone else makes a play, then go into a full body seizure to get recognized.

trust me... if Timmon's came up with a dance he would have made the top 100.

If Troy didn't have his hair he wouldn't get as much recognition as he does....

The NFL is entertainment.... acting like you've been there before is great for the old fans but in this league you have to add a little oomph to get noticed.

papillon
07-25-2011, 03:21 PM
If Timmon's had Troy's anticipation he would be scary good. The one problem with Timmons is his lack of body control.. he probably left 10 sacks on the field due to this.

Given his age, Timmons has the makings of something special. I just wish he wasn't a bust :wink:

If Timmons can begin to turn some of those QB pressures into sacks then he will rank up with Willis as the premiere ILB's in the game. As it is he is not that far off.

Timmons not being on the players' top 100 list of 2011 at all, while Ray Lewis being #4 overall is a complete joke. Perhaps Timmons needs to jump on more piles after someone else makes a play, then go into a full body seizure to get recognized.

I'd rather he just keep making 100 plus tackles per year for the next 10 years. :tt2

Pappy

RuthlessBurgher
07-25-2011, 03:53 PM
If Timmon's had Troy's anticipation he would be scary good. The one problem with Timmons is his lack of body control.. he probably left 10 sacks on the field due to this.

Given his age, Timmons has the makings of something special. I just wish he wasn't a bust :wink:

If Timmons can begin to turn some of those QB pressures into sacks then he will rank up with Willis as the premiere ILB's in the game. As it is he is not that far off.

Timmons not being on the players' top 100 list of 2011 at all, while Ray Lewis being #4 overall is a complete joke. Perhaps Timmons needs to jump on more piles after someone else makes a play, then go into a full body seizure to get recognized.

trust me... if Timmon's came up with a dance he would have made the top 100.

If Troy didn't have his hair he wouldn't get as much recognition as he does....

The NFL is entertainment.... acting like you've been there before is great for the old fans but in this league you have to add a little oomph to get noticed.

Plus more hits like this (which would undoubtedly get you fined in today's NFL)

http://thesportshernia.typepad.com/.a/6a00d83451b84f69e2010536c6c053970b-550wi