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Oviedo
07-08-2011, 01:10 PM
The 8th District ruled in favor of the owners that the lockout is legit and will remain in effect. Looks like the players strategy of walking away from mediation and going to court was a BUST!!!! My count is Owners 3 and Players 1.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=6748753


The 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in St. Louis has thrown out a judge's order lifting the NFL lockout, handing the league a victory in a labor stoppage that has reached its 115th day.

The appellate court issued its decision Friday, even as the league and its locked-out players continue negotiations in New York toward a new collective bargaining agreement in hopes of starting the 2011 season on time. The first preseason game is scheduled for Aug. 7.

The appellate court ruled on an April 25 decision by U.S. District Judge Susan Richard Nelson, who ruled that the lockout was against federal law after players argued they were suffering irreparable harm. The 8th Circuit put that order on hold, and its ruling Friday said Nelson ignored federal law in reaching her decision.

It does allow the players to go back to federal court in September and re-file their anti-trust case.

The court's decision came while commissioner Roger Goodell and NFL Players Association chief DeMaurice Smith began a second straight day of negotiations aimed toward resolving the lockout.

The substance of the ruling was not a surprise to either owners or players, and is not expected to change the tenor of the negotiations. The ruling itself wasn't a surprise because it was foreshadowed in previous court opinions -- Judge Kermit Bye had said last month that neither side would be completely happy with the ruling.

The timing of it, falling as negotiations continued, did catch the owners and players off-guard, however.

In addition, rookies and all free agents can seek relief from Nelson through an evidentiary hearing to determine if the lockout applies to all players without contracts.

The league's negotiations in New York took a short break Friday as players and owners printed copies of the court ruling for review. Talks are expected to resume thereafter.

"While we respect the court's decision, today's ruling does not change our mutual recognition that this matter must be resolved through negotiation," read a joint statement issued by the league and the NFLPA. "We are committed to our current discussions and reaching a fair agreement that will benefit all parties for years to come, and allow for a full 2011 season."

Meanwhile, owners and players are getting closer to reaching an agreement on the all-important revenue split, sources told ESPN's Sal Paolantonio. That's the good news, but there is bad news -- there's still a lot of work to be done on the new parameters of free agency, particularly whether teams will be allowed the right of first refusal on up to three of their free agents.


Such a scenario could affect some big names -- Joseph Addai, Antonio Cromartie, Santonio Holmes, DeAngelo Williams -- with big money at stake. According to one participant who was on a player conference call Thursday night with Smith, Smith told the players: "We are close, but we've got work to do and I'm not signing this until you guys are taken care of."

Negotiations Thursday stretched for more than 12 hours and deep into the evening. The plaintiffs in the Tom Brady vs. NFL case participated in the call to be updated on the status of labor negotiations, particularly the framework for a new CBA.

All of the details in a new CBA have not been worked out, but the call was designed to give the plaintiffs a clear idea of where the agreement is headed so that they can make an informed decision about the anti-trust lawsuit, which must be settled in federal court prior to the CBA taking effect, a league source told ESPN.

An absolute core issue in the discussions between owners and players is the jurisdictional oversight of any agreement. As The New York Times reported Friday, the players want a class-action settlement, which would provide them with the same jurisdictional oversight of this agreement as was the case in the post-1993 Reggie White case.

Even with an arbitration system, final appeals of grievances and disputes went to Judge David Doty in Minneapolis. In this situation, the players want those issues decided by Nelson, who has the current antitrust case.

The issue will be a signficant hurdle, based on what has been stated by both sides in the negotiations. Owners want a strict arbitration system with no federal court oversight.

Some training camps are set to open in less than three weeks. The preseason begins with the Pro Football Hall of Fame inductions and Hall of Fame Game in Canton, Ohio, on Aug. 7 between the St. Louis Rams and Chicago Bears.

RuthlessBurgher
07-08-2011, 03:10 PM
Why the hell do you continue to celebrate these "victories" for the owners?

The only victory that matters is when a CBA is signed and everyone gets back to work.

And the best deal we could hope for would be in which neither the owners nor the players "win" decisively (because if it turns out to be an overwhelmingly good deal for the owners and bad for the players, we can expect a strike in the coming years....if it turns out to be an overwhelmingly good deal for the players and bad for the owners, we can expect another lockout in the coming years). The best deal is the one that neither side particularly likes but both sides can manage to live with, since that would ensure labor peace for the foreseeable future. This ruling doesn't help us get toward that one iota.

Oviedo
07-08-2011, 03:17 PM
Why the hell do you continue to celebrate these "victories" for the owners?

The only victory that matters is when a CBA is signed and everyone gets back to work.

And the best deal we could hope for would be in which neither the owners nor the players "win" decisively (because if it turns out to be an overwhelmingly good deal for the owners and bad for the players, we can expect a strike in the coming years....if it turns out to be an overwhelmingly good deal for the players and bad for the owners, we can expect another lockout in the coming years). The best deal is the one that neither side particularly likes but both sides can manage to live with, since that would ensure labor peace for the foreseeable future. This ruling doesn't help us get toward that one iota.

Agree that just getting the CBA is job #1.

I "celebrate" because I want those who have the long term interests of the game as their primary interests controlling the game. Not temporary employees.

Don't forget it was Smith and the rest of his radical labor boys who quit talking in April, decerified and took this to court where they thought they would get a favorable left-wing judge. The lock out was a reaction to these actions of the radical labor crowd. If Smith doesn't walk away from mediation we don't lose two months of talking while this plays out in courts. Therefore I am pleased to see the owners win these court cases and pressure for a settlement be put on all parties.

RuthlessBurgher
07-08-2011, 03:22 PM
You seriously think that the owners wouldn't have locked the players anyway? Everyone knew that a lockout was coming more than a year in advance. Continue to paint DeMaurice Smith as the sole bad guy here, though...

Oviedo
07-08-2011, 03:29 PM
You seriously think that the owners wouldn't have locked the players anyway? Everyone knew that a lockout was coming more than a year in advance. Continue to paint DeMaurice Smith as the sole bad guy here, though...

The owners were talking and sitting in the mediation room waiting to talk more, Smith and the boys quit. Those are the facts. Anything else is unsupported speculation.

Smith is the one who threw this into the courts. That was his strategy all along which is why they voted to decertify months before they even say down for serious discussions. He wanted to submarine any talks so he could get to the courts where he thought he would win. Big miscalculation.

Smith isn't the sole bad guy but he is the one who developed and initiated the strategy that sidetracked these negotiations for months.

birtikidis
07-08-2011, 03:32 PM
You seriously think that the owners wouldn't have locked the players anyway? Everyone knew that a lockout was coming more than a year in advance. Continue to paint DeMaurice Smith as the sole bad guy here, though...

The owners were talking and sitting in the mediation room waiting to talk more, Smith and the boys quit. Those are the facts. Anything else is unsupported speculation.
Like when Jerry Jones told the players that they didn't understand what they were getting into, before he walked out AT THE BEGINNING of the lockout?

Smith is the one who threw this into the courts. That was his strategy all along which is why they voted to decertify months before they even say down for serious discussions. He wanted to submarine any talks so he could get to the courts where he thought he would win. Big miscalculation.
Just like it was the leagues intention to lock the players out over a year ago when they opted out of the remainder of the old CBA. They could have easily been negotiating till the end of that.
Smith isn't the sole bad guy but he is the one who developed and initiated the strategy that sidetracked these negotiations for months.
He was left little choice. Unless you think the players should have rolled over as soon as they were locked out and just took whatever came.

hawaiiansteel
07-08-2011, 03:48 PM
in my opinion:

http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/565747/NFL_lockout_scoreboard_15MAR_medium.jpg

RuthlessBurgher
07-08-2011, 03:56 PM
The owners trying to weasel a "lockout insurance" nest egg out of the networks was a completely innocent move, I suppose. The courts sure put the kibosh on that one real quick...

feltdizz
07-08-2011, 03:57 PM
You seriously think that the owners wouldn't have locked the players anyway? Everyone knew that a lockout was coming more than a year in advance. Continue to paint DeMaurice Smith as the sole bad guy here, though...

The owners were talking and sitting in the mediation room waiting to talk more, Smith and the boys quit. Those are the facts. Anything else is unsupported speculation.
Like when Jerry Jones told the players that they didn't understand what they were getting into, before he walked out AT THE BEGINNING of the lockout?

Smith is the one who threw this into the courts. That was his strategy all along which is why they voted to decertify months before they even say down for serious discussions. He wanted to submarine any talks so he could get to the courts where he thought he would win. Big miscalculation.
Just like it was the leagues intention to lock the players out over a year ago when they opted out of the remainder of the old CBA. They could have easily been negotiating till the end of that.
Smith isn't the sole bad guy but he is the one who developed and initiated the strategy that sidetracked these negotiations for months.
He was left little choice. Unless you think the players should have rolled over as soon as they were locked out and just took whatever came.

Ovie definitely thinks the players should roll over and take whatever deal is on the table.

I don't see anything to celebrate.... what if the owners turn this into the MLB?

feltdizz
07-08-2011, 03:58 PM
The owners trying to weasel a "lockout insurance" nest egg out of the networks was a completely innocent move, I suppose. The courts sure put the kibosh on that one real quick...

The owners know what's best for their league.... :roll:

sentinel33
07-08-2011, 06:33 PM
The owners are squeezin em. This will end when the players cave. Just like how dissension reared it's ugly head not too long ago, it will do the same soon. Not sure if there will be a winner, but the sooner the players take a deal, the sooner it gets goin. cause the owners arent budgin. It's Goodell and the owners holding fast while 1696 players start breathing down Smiths neck. Just a matter of time.

Discipline of Steel
07-08-2011, 07:16 PM
MEANWHILE GOODELL ET AL CONTINUE TO PUSSIFY THE LEAGUE WITH MORE THREATS AND RULE CHANGES, HOPING IT WILL GET SWEPT UNDER THE RUG BEHIND THE LARGER LOCKOUT ISSUE. ONCE THE CBA IS RESOLVED WE ARE STILL FACED WITH THAT GROWING HEAP OF BULLCRAP. SO HURRAH FOR GOODELL ON HIS COURT VICTORY BUT HE IS STILL DOING TERRIBLE THINGS.

Djfan
07-08-2011, 08:02 PM
MEANWHILE GOODELL ET AL CONTINUE TO PUSSIFY THE LEAGUE WITH MORE THREATS AND RULE CHANGES, HOPING IT WILL GET SWEPT UNDER THE RUG BEHIND THE LARGER LOCKOUT ISSUE. ONCE THE CBA IS RESOLVED WE ARE STILL FACED WITH THAT GROWING HEAP OF BULLCRAP. SO HURRAH FOR GOODELL ON HIS COURT VICTORY BUT HE IS STILL DOING TERRIBLE THINGS.


This.

Oviedo
07-09-2011, 07:17 AM
You seriously think that the owners wouldn't have locked the players anyway? Everyone knew that a lockout was coming more than a year in advance. Continue to paint DeMaurice Smith as the sole bad guy here, though...

The owners were talking and sitting in the mediation room waiting to talk more, Smith and the boys quit. Those are the facts. Anything else is unsupported speculation.
Like when Jerry Jones told the players that they didn't understand what they were getting into, before he walked out AT THE BEGINNING of the lockout?

Smith is the one who threw this into the courts. That was his strategy all along which is why they voted to decertify months before they even say down for serious discussions. He wanted to submarine any talks so he could get to the courts where he thought he would win. Big miscalculation.
Just like it was the leagues intention to lock the players out over a year ago when they opted out of the remainder of the old CBA. They could have easily been negotiating till the end of that.
Smith isn't the sole bad guy but he is the one who developed and initiated the strategy that sidetracked these negotiations for months.
He was left little choice. Unless you think the players should have rolled over as soon as they were locked out and just took whatever came.

Ovie definitely thinks the players should roll over and take whatever deal is on the table.

I don't see anything to celebrate.... what if the owners turn this into the MLB?

There is no interest for the owners to turn this into the MLB. The bigger danger is the use to be a union turning it into MLB. Setting up an MLB system where a few teams buy the best players and escalate salaries is of no value to the owners.

If rolling over is a system that pays the lowest paid player on the active roster $300K per year then roll me over several times.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
07-09-2011, 09:12 AM
Ovie definitely thinks the players should roll over and take whatever deal is on the table.

I don't see anything to celebrate.... what if the owners turn this into the MLB?

Could you possibly think that the owners' collective goal is to turn this into MLB? The owners?

No salary cap?
Rich teams inflating the salaries of average players forcing up those salaries of every other player?
Guaranteed contracts?

I think you have your sides mixed up.

feltdizz
07-09-2011, 09:19 AM
I think revenue sharing is biggest elephant in the room.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
07-09-2011, 09:26 AM
I think revenue sharing is biggest elephant in the room.

More so for the players than the owners.

papillon
07-09-2011, 10:16 AM
I have a question about the revenue sharing. When they say the players want 48%, 49%, or whatever the percentage is going to be. How do the players actually receive the money? They're paid a salary by the teams which is paid out of the revenue that the team earns. Do they also get a stipend from league revenue? If they do, is shared equally? tenure? Or, does their share determine the salary cap in some fashion and the higher the cap, then higher the salaries can be?

I know I'd be laughed out of the owner's office at my business if I asked for a 40% revenue split with him.

I don't quite understand employees asking for a slice of the revenue.

Pappy

feltdizz
07-09-2011, 10:46 AM
Pappy, if you were one of 1700 employees who helped generated 9 Billion annually you wouldn't get laughed out of the room. You have to remember these 2 sides have been negotiating like this for years...

RuthlessBurgher
07-09-2011, 12:55 PM
Steelers' Clark optimitic lockout could end soon
Saturday, July 09, 2011
By Ray Fittipaldo, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

Steelers safety Ryan Clark was on a conference call Friday afternoon with other union representatives and said afterward he is optimistic the longest labor stoppage in NFL history is close to getting settled.

Clark, the Steelers player representative, said NFL Players Association executive director DeMaurice Smith, NFLPA president Kevin Mawae and executive committee member Charlie Batch were on Friday's call.

Clark said he has been on conference calls at the end of the week for the past few weeks with Smith and other members of the NFLPA.

"The last few weeks have been very positive on the whole," Clark said Friday afternoon. "Both sides are actively pursuing a deal and getting this thing done. It's been very positive in all aspects.

"People on the outside are getting more optimistic the more the media talks about it, but for those of us on the inside, for those of us in the know, we've been excited."

On Friday, the 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals in St. Louis threw out Judge Susan Richard Nelson's order to lift the lockout. Nelson had ruled the lockout was against federal law after players argued they were suffering irreparable harm.

The 8th Circuit put that order on hold, and its ruling Friday said Nelson ignored federal law in reaching her decision. The 8th Circuit's ruling does allow the players to go back to federal court in September and re-file their antitrust case.

In addition, rookies and all free agents can seek relief from Nelson through an evidentiary hearing to determine if the lockout applies to all players without contracts.

The news of the 8th Circuit's ruling came during negotiations between Smith and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell in New York.

"While we respect the court's decision, today's ruling does not change our mutual recognition that this matter must be resolved through negotiation," they said in a joint statement issued by the league and the NFLPA. "We are committed to our current discussions and reaching a fair agreement that will benefit all parties for years to come and allow for a full 2011 season."

Clark does not believe the ruling will have a major impact on the negotiations.

"They didn't provide an injunction, but they never said it was lawful," Clark said of the 8th Circuit's ruling. "[The NFL owners] would still be subject to damages. So is it a total loss? No, not at all. We'd have to go back to court and file again.

"The lockout isn't lawful, and it's costing a lot of people money. We don't want to go that route. Hopefully, with the way talks have been going, they'll get this thing hammered out."

Clark is currently in Louisiana working out with other former Louisiana State University teammates. It is his job to update the Steelers and any other players around the league who want to know how things are going.

"The guys will call or text to find out what's going on," Clark said. "There are guys down here with me who are on other teams. It's not just about the Pittsburgh Steelers. We're all a family. That's my job to keep them updated. That's why I was elected to be a union rep. Some guys could not care less. They just want to work out and get ready for the season. But there are other guys who want to be in the know."

NFL players have been locked out since March 12. If a new collective bargaining agreement is reached, there likely will be a short free agency period before training camps open across the league. The first preseason game is the Aug. 7 Hall of Fame Game in Canton, Ohio, between the St. Louis Rams and Chicago Bears.

The Steelers didn't set a date for the start of this year's training camp because of the lockout. Their first preseason game is scheduled for Aug. 12 at Washington.

Both sides are working to get a deal done by the end of next week because any missed preseason games will cost the owners and the players millions of dollars in lost revenue.

The Associated Press contributed to this report. Ray Fittipaldo: rfittipaldo@post-gazette.com or 412-263-1230.

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11190/1159295-66-0.stm

papillon
07-09-2011, 11:15 PM
Pappy, if you were one of 1700 employees who helped generated 9 Billion annually you wouldn't get laughed out of the room. You have to remember these 2 sides have been negotiating like this for years...

How about the 89,000 Microsoft employees that help generate 63 billion dollars per year (netting 19 billion)? I don't believe that Microsoft has any plans to share the revenue with its employees other than salary, benefits and bonuses. I'm fairly certain that Steve Ballmer and Bill Gates would chuckle if the employees demanded to share the 19 billion net.

Regardless, how is the revenue sharing distributed to the players? by who?

Pappy

birtikidis
07-10-2011, 03:54 AM
Pap,
I'm probably wrong, but i always figured the % they used was what they used to determine the cap. so if 48% of the total was used thent he cap would be that number divided by 32 (for each team) so say the total was 10 billion.. 48% would be 4.8 billion then that number would be divided by 32 equals 150m for each team to use as their salary cap ceiling.

feltdizz
07-10-2011, 10:55 AM
Pappy, if you were one of 1700 employees who helped generated 9 Billion annually you wouldn't get laughed out of the room. You have to remember these 2 sides have been negotiating like this for years...

How about the 89,000 Microsoft employees that help generate 63 billion dollars per year (netting 19 billion)? I don't believe that Microsoft has any plans to share the revenue with its employees other than salary, benefits and bonuses. I'm fairly certain that Steve Ballmer and Bill Gates would chuckle if the employees demanded to share the 19 billion net.

Regardless, how is the revenue sharing distributed to the players? by who?

Pappy

I have no idea what the percentages are but I'm pretty sure those 89k employees make a nice chunk of the revenue. They may not argue as a collective but they negotiate. Throw in Bob the IT guys shirts selling out at stores due to his face and IT skills and I think Bill wouldn't laugh as much.

anyway.... I think we all know football is different than 99% of the businesses they are compared too. The players are the product...

Oviedo
07-10-2011, 12:23 PM
Football is a business like any other business. It's just that these specific workers have been told they are special and entitled since they have been about 12 years old and therefore they believe it. The reality is that they are replaceable as we see every year when a new group rotates in.

I would conjecture that many of the 89,000 employees at Microsoft are far less replaceable than the players in the NFL because of the intellectual capital they provide.

BURGH86STEEL
07-10-2011, 01:33 PM
Football is a business like any other business. It's just that these specific workers have been told they are special and entitled since they have been about 12 years old and therefore they believe it. The reality is that they are replaceable as we see every year when a new group rotates in.

I would conjecture that many of the 89,000 employees at Microsoft are far less replaceable than the players in the NFL because of the intellectual capital they provide.
The NFL operates under special privileges that most businesses are not allowed to operate. Does that make it like any other business?

The NFL is only a dream at the age of 12. I believe that attitude probably develops some where around late high school and college based on how well the individual performs. Out of a population of over 300 million people, less then 2000 get to play the sport at the elite level every year. Only a handful get to compete for greater then 10 years.

The elite of the elite players are difficult to replace. It's usually noticeable when one of those players is out of the line up. I'd say a handful of the 89,000 Microsoft employees are ranked with the elite of the elite in their field. Same can be said for NFL players.

Something to think about, Microsoft has a greater pool of talent to pull from then the NFL or any other sport. Many people can make it into Microsoft with education and hard work. No matter how hard one works to make it to the NFL, the gifts of many NFL players doesn't come naturally or easily. Becoming an NFL player is rarer then you seem to believe.

SteelTorch
07-10-2011, 09:32 PM
Football is a business like any other business. It's just that these specific workers have been told they are special and entitled since they have been about 12 years old and therefore they believe it. The reality is that they are replaceable as we see every year when a new group rotates in.

I would conjecture that many of the 89,000 employees at Microsoft are far less replaceable than the players in the NFL because of the intellectual capital they provide.
Replaceable? Expendable? That's how you view them? I'd be willing to bet you view your employees the same way. Nice to see where your heart lies. Sure am glad I don't work for you.

feltdizz
07-10-2011, 09:54 PM
Football is a business like any other business. It's just that these specific workers have been told they are special and entitled since they have been about 12 years old and therefore they believe it. The reality is that they are replaceable as we see every year when a new group rotates in.

I would conjecture that many of the 89,000 employees at Microsoft are far less replaceable than the players in the NFL because of the intellectual capital they provide.

I seriously disagree with this. You really are jealous when it comes to the NFL athlete.

Microsoft doesn't have a limit on how many employees they can have. They can pay every nerd who graduates from HS or college... Microsoft can easily replace their tech heads because they have a much larger pool to pull from and they have no limitations on the amount o talent they can keep.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
07-10-2011, 10:12 PM
Pappy, if you were one of 1700 employees who helped generated 9 Billion annually you wouldn't get laughed out of the room. You have to remember these 2 sides have been negotiating like this for years...

That is not the point on the players' side.

I'm assuming that if Pappy stormed into his boss' office and demanded 40% for the employees, his boss would then fire him. If all of the employees were let go en masse, after a brief training period it is unlikely that anyone would be able to tell the difference.

If 1700 NFL players walk away and are replaced by the next 1700 people in line.....everyone would notice the difference, and revenues would suffer. Point is that in this case it is the players who contribute to a much larger percentage of the final product than in most companies.

birtikidis
07-11-2011, 02:21 AM
Take those Microsoft employees and beat their heads of their desks, bust up there knees with a hard piece of plastic every few days, and tear up their ligaments every few weeks and see how much they start getting paid for going to the office. Other than not being able to get laid, microsoft employees (at least the really geeky ones) don't really put too much of their bodies on the line.

Oviedo
07-11-2011, 09:21 AM
Football is a business like any other business. It's just that these specific workers have been told they are special and entitled since they have been about 12 years old and therefore they believe it. The reality is that they are replaceable as we see every year when a new group rotates in.

I would conjecture that many of the 89,000 employees at Microsoft are far less replaceable than the players in the NFL because of the intellectual capital they provide.

I seriously disagree with this. You really are jealous when it comes to the NFL athlete.

Microsoft doesn't have a limit on how many employees they can have. They can pay every nerd who graduates from HS or college... Microsoft can easily replace their tech heads because they have a much larger pool to pull from and they have no limitations on the amount o talent they can keep.

You are way off base. I'm no way jealous of any pro athlete. I do recognize that most of their ability is a result of genetic roulette where they are born with gentetic attributes that most of us don't get. That is why I don't man love them like you or assign them as high a status in our society as you obviously do.

feltdizz
07-11-2011, 09:43 AM
Football is a business like any other business. It's just that these specific workers have been told they are special and entitled since they have been about 12 years old and therefore they believe it. The reality is that they are replaceable as we see every year when a new group rotates in.

I would conjecture that many of the 89,000 employees at Microsoft are far less replaceable than the players in the NFL because of the intellectual capital they provide.

I seriously disagree with this. You really are jealous when it comes to the NFL athlete.

Microsoft doesn't have a limit on how many employees they can have. They can pay every nerd who graduates from HS or college... Microsoft can easily replace their tech heads because they have a much larger pool to pull from and they have no limitations on the amount o talent they can keep.

You are way off base. I'm no way jealous of any pro athlete. I do recognize that most of their ability is a result of genetic roulette where they are born with gentetic attributes that most of us don't get. That is why I don't man love them like you or assign them as high a status in our society as you obviously do.

You are on a message board talking about football players and defensive schemes and who should be cut or drafted...


but you have the nerve to talk about man love?

C'mon Ovie... :lol: lighten up. If you believed the stuff you just wrote you wouldn't be on here and you wouldn't watch football or care how this plays out.

feltdizz
07-11-2011, 09:49 AM
Pappy, if you were one of 1700 employees who helped generated 9 Billion annually you wouldn't get laughed out of the room. You have to remember these 2 sides have been negotiating like this for years...

That is not the point on the players' side.

I'm assuming that if Pappy stormed into his boss' office and demanded 40% for the employees, his boss would then fire him. If all of the employees were let go en masse, after a brief training period it is unlikely that anyone would be able to tell the difference.

If 1700 NFL players walk away and are replaced by the next 1700 people in line.....everyone would notice the difference, and revenues would suffer. Point is that in this case it is the players who contribute to a much larger percentage of the final product than in most companies.

If all the employees walk out of a company that employs thousands I think they would suffer significantly... you can't train everyone and keep things rolling. One day, let alone a few weeks would put a nice dent in Microsoft.

I agree though.. players contribute to a much larger % and if any employee contributed as much and had face recognition and merch attached to them I think the company wouldn't laugh at the demands...

Oviedo
07-11-2011, 12:15 PM
Football is a business like any other business. It's just that these specific workers have been told they are special and entitled since they have been about 12 years old and therefore they believe it. The reality is that they are replaceable as we see every year when a new group rotates in.

I would conjecture that many of the 89,000 employees at Microsoft are far less replaceable than the players in the NFL because of the intellectual capital they provide.

I seriously disagree with this. You really are jealous when it comes to the NFL athlete.

Microsoft doesn't have a limit on how many employees they can have. They can pay every nerd who graduates from HS or college... Microsoft can easily replace their tech heads because they have a much larger pool to pull from and they have no limitations on the amount o talent they can keep.

You are way off base. I'm no way jealous of any pro athlete. I do recognize that most of their ability is a result of genetic roulette where they are born with gentetic attributes that most of us don't get. That is why I don't man love them like you or assign them as high a status in our society as you obviously do.

You are on a message board talking about football players and defensive schemes and who should be cut or drafted...


but you have the nerve to talk about man love?

C'mon Ovie... :lol: lighten up. If you believed the stuff you just wrote you wouldn't be on here and you wouldn't watch football or care how this plays out.

I love the game not the temporary employees. The latter are replaceable and have been since the game started, but the league isn't.

feltdizz
07-11-2011, 12:38 PM
The players, owners and stadiums are all temporary... no one lives forever.

BradshawsHairdresser
07-13-2011, 10:14 AM
The players, owners and stadiums are all temporary... no one lives forever.
Unfortunately, it seems like Al Davis is an exception to your statement.

feltdizz
07-13-2011, 10:23 AM
The players, owners and stadiums are all temporary... no one lives forever.
Unfortunately, it seems like Al Davis is an exception to your statement.

:Clap

ikestops85
07-13-2011, 10:29 AM
The players, owners and stadiums are all temporary... no one lives forever.
Unfortunately, it seems like Al Davis is an exception to your statement.

No, he is correct. Al Davis has been dead for several years now. Just look at him.

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSFH-ghAISA6Uda7BgfjYPhDhLcyNtl55aTWfurCC7RQVvLzN8vGg&t=1