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Dee Dub
06-29-2011, 07:20 PM
Read this garbage and then see my response. Typical uninformed sports journalism.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/1527 ... redentials (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/15276957/to-among-handful-of-active-players-with-canton-credentials)

Ben Roethlisberger, QB, Pittsburgh Steelers
Decision: On the bubble
There are some who say his two rings make him a lock. I say he needs to do a little more. Hey, Jim Plunkett has two and he's not in the Hall.
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Are you kidding me? Ben has played all of 7 years in the NFL. Here is the comparison between Ben and Jim Plunkett using Plunkett’s first 7 years in the league. Plunkett actually struggled in the NFL for his first 9 years. But for comparison we’ll be fair here and use just his first 7.

Ben Roethlisberger’s first 7 years in the NFL

Att 2800 Comp 1766 comp % 63.1 TD’s 144 INT’s 85

3 trips to the Super Bowl with 2 wins

Comebacks/game-winning drives in the fourth quarter/overtime
Roethlisberger set a NFL rookie record in 2004 with five comeback wins in the fourth quarter, and six game-winning drives in the fourth quarter/overtime (including one playoff game). Roethlisberger has the most comeback wins (19) and game-winning drives (25) through the first seven seasons of a player's career.


Jim Plunkett’s first 7 years in the NFL

Att 1994 Comp 983 Comp % 49.4 TD’s 84 INT’s 117

0 trips to the Super Bowl

Cut twice by two teams in his first 7 years.

birtikidis
06-29-2011, 08:41 PM
I think Ben will make it, but not as a first ballot. And the reason for that is he doesn't get the love that Manning and Brady get. He's not a fantasy football monster and that's what will hold him back. Comparing him to Plunkett was just plain stupid though.

Mister Pittsburgh
06-30-2011, 06:59 AM
Pretty sure Ben has quite a few years of football playing left to do. He wins another strap or two that changes things quite significantly.

Oviedo
06-30-2011, 08:07 AM
I think Ben will make it, but not as a first ballot. And the reason for that is he doesn't get the love that Manning and Brady get. He's not a fantasy football monster and that's what will hold him back. Comparing him to Plunkett was just plain stupid though.

I agree with you 100%. Not being a Fantasy Football (FF) stat generator will be Ben's "achilles heel" as far as the HoF. Sprotswriters and broadcasters are no different than a significant part of the fan base who have become totally deluded by stats because of FF. They are lazy so instead of spending hours watching film, it is easy to look at boxscores and stats and draw your conclusions.

There is also still, and will be for a long time, a strong anti-Steelers bias in HoF voting that Dawson has seen for many years, Bettis saw last year and Hines and ben will see when their time is due. I'm betting Hines and Ben have to wait at least 3 trys at a minimum before either is voted in...Bettis too. There is a strong sentiment that there are too many Steelers already in the HoF and the votes show that any Steeler wanting to get in has to be head and shoulders above the others.

Dee Dub
06-30-2011, 12:03 PM
Ben has played only 7 years in the league. Give him another 7 and I think his selection into the Hall of Fame will be automatic. And his number wont be like Manning or Brady but they will still be very good.

Look at the 4th quarter comebacks. That right there is elite status.

aggiebones
06-30-2011, 12:17 PM
If Ben blows his achilles and never plays again, will he make the HoF?

I'm not so sure. He's close and maybe after a few tries, but maybe not. If he flounders around for 5-8 more years with not much to show, will he get in? Maybe. But not guaranteed yet.

TallyStiller
07-01-2011, 03:11 PM
For a RIGHT NOW comparison for Ben as a potential HOF'er, I'd take Terrel Davis - two utterly dominant years with SB victories, but just over 7,000 yards in a 7 year career cut short by injuries. He's the subject of a lot of debate based on that, and I think Ben would be, too... right now, today, though, I don't think either would get in. Ben, though, presumably has at least another 5 to 7 years to continue piling up accomplishments. Further, as the Steeler D ages and or the FO is unable to find a serviceable secondary, the offense could be called upon to do more to win games more often, as happened with the Bradshaw/Swann/Stallworth group in the late '70's. Bradshaw was nowhere CLOSE to being a HOF worthy QB after his first 2 rings - he earned his bust in Canton in '78 and '79, when the team was his.

BradshawsHairdresser
07-04-2011, 10:09 AM
For a RIGHT NOW comparison for Ben as a potential HOF'er, I'd take Terrel Davis - two utterly dominant years with SB victories, but just over 7,000 yards in a 7 year career cut short by injuries. He's the subject of a lot of debate based on that, and I think Ben would be, too... right now, today, though, I don't think either would get in. Ben, though, presumably has at least another 5 to 7 years to continue piling up accomplishments. Further, as the Steeler D ages and or the FO is unable to find a serviceable secondary, the offense could be called upon to do more to win games more often, as happened with the Bradshaw/Swann/Stallworth group in the late '70's. Bradshaw was nowhere CLOSE to being a HOF worthy QB after his first 2 rings - he earned his bust in Canton in '78 and '79, when the team was his.

$$$$$$$$

Shoe
07-04-2011, 12:51 PM
I think Ben will make it, but not as a first ballot. And the reason for that is he doesn't get the love that Manning and Brady get. He's not a fantasy football monster and that's what will hold him back. Comparing him to Plunkett was just plain stupid though.

You're talking like Ben's story is complete... as if he's accomplished all he is probably gonna. (If that is your point, it's certainly reasonable. I personally don't think so.) But if he gets to another SB (and wins it), I think that pretty much has to seal the deal for 1st ballot enshrinement. People try to pooh-pooh his SB accomplishments... as if he was a passenger on the ride, etc. BUT THE FACT IS THAT HE'S MADE THREE, WON TWO. Getting to three is a huge accomplishment in itself. You get to FOUR, you are in some quite exalted company. You win three, and it's a done deal.

Granted, if he never wins another one, I suppose I can see the point (of him not being 1st ballot).

Shoe
07-04-2011, 12:56 PM
If Ben blows his achilles and never plays again, will he make the HoF?

I'm not so sure. He's close and maybe after a few tries, but maybe not. If he flounders around for 5-8 more years with not much to show, will he get in? Maybe. But not guaranteed yet.

It's an interesting question. Because if you erased all his off-field stuff, I really think he would be a lock HOF'r right now. (The thing with our hypothetical here is that most any player coming off a catastrophic injury, would come back, potentially flounder, etc. Would have an effect.)

But let's say he was Peyton Manning perception-wise, and Ben's on-field stats and accomplishments after 7 years, and then he just dropped off the football map. That player would be a shoe-in IMO.

birtikidis
07-04-2011, 04:25 PM
I think Ben will make it, but not as a first ballot. And the reason for that is he doesn't get the love that Manning and Brady get. He's not a fantasy football monster and that's what will hold him back. Comparing him to Plunkett was just plain stupid though.

You're talking like Ben's story is complete... as if he's accomplished all he is probably gonna. (If that is your point, it's certainly reasonable. I personally don't think so.) But if he gets to another SB (and wins it), I think that pretty much has to seal the deal for 1st ballot enshrinement. People try to pooh-pooh his SB accomplishments... as if he was a passenger on the ride, etc. BUT THE FACT IS THAT HE'S MADE THREE, WON TWO. Getting to three is a huge accomplishment in itself. You get to FOUR, you are in some quite exalted company. You win three, and it's a done deal.

Granted, if he never wins another one, I suppose I can see the point (of him not being 1st ballot).
When I get into these discussions I always look at it as if his career is over at that point. Since tomorrow is never guaranteed and all you can do is speculate. He could go on to be a huge stat generator. but who knows. For all we know there may not be football next year and he may never step foot on a field again. that's why it comes across that way.

AngryAsian
07-05-2011, 01:14 PM
If he won the SB MVP last year by guiding his team to yet another championship, these ridiculous articles wouldn't even be written. 3 SB rings would equal Brady's tally along with the MVP trophy. Unfortunately, Ben will continue to eat this sandwhich of injustice until he wins his third and an SB MVP along with it. We know that's BS, but it is the only thing that will shut the media traps up our franchise QB.

feltdizz
07-05-2011, 03:19 PM
The problem with Ben is outside of the AZ winning drive Ben has played mediocre at the QB position in 3 SB's.
Look at Bradshaw or Montana and you have tons of SB tape to watch them solidify their greatness.
Ben has been to 3 SB's and I can pee longer than it would take to watch his SB highlights.

Dee Dub
07-06-2011, 02:47 PM
If he won the SB MVP last year by guiding his team to yet another championship, these ridiculous articles wouldn't even be written. 3 SB rings would equal Brady's tally along with the MVP trophy. Unfortunately, Ben will continue to eat this sandwhich of injustice until he wins his third and an SB MVP along with it. We know that's BS, but it is the only thing that will shut the media traps up our franchise QB.


What makes these articles ridiculous (and the basis for my thread), is that Ben is actually compared to Jim Plunkett on the basis of both having won 2 super bowls. And that is flat out ridiculous if you compare their first 7 years in the NFL.

Dee Dub
07-06-2011, 02:50 PM
The problem with Ben is outside of the AZ winning drive Ben has played mediocre at the QB position in 3 SB's.
Look at Bradshaw or Montana and you have tons of SB tape to watch them solidify their greatness.
Ben has been to 3 SB's and I can pee longer than it would take to watch his SB highlights.

Ben has played 7 years in the NFL. Compare that and what he has done with any QB in the history of the game. If there was such things as a First-7-Years-in-the-League-Hall of Fame...you can bet Ben would be on it.

So..........having said all that...at this pace..Ben will be a lock for first ballot Hall of Fame.

BradshawsHairdresser
07-06-2011, 05:54 PM
The problem with Ben is outside of the AZ winning drive Ben has played mediocre at the QB position in 3 SB's.
Look at Bradshaw or Montana and you have tons of SB tape to watch them solidify their greatness.
Ben has been to 3 SB's and I can pee longer than it would take to watch his SB highlights.

Ben has played 7 years in the NFL. Compare that and what he has done with any QB in the history of the game. If there was such things as a First-7-Years-in-the-League-Hall of Fame...you can bet Ben would be on it.

So..........having said all that...at this pace..Ben will be a lock for first ballot Hall of Fame.

"At this pace," yes...but if his career ended today? I'm not so sure.

birtikidis
07-06-2011, 08:47 PM
If he won the SB MVP last year by guiding his team to yet another championship, these ridiculous articles wouldn't even be written. 3 SB rings would equal Brady's tally along with the MVP trophy. Unfortunately, Ben will continue to eat this sandwhich of injustice until he wins his third and an SB MVP along with it. We know that's BS, but it is the only thing that will shut the media traps up our franchise QB.


What makes these articles ridiculous (and the basis for my thread), is that Ben is actually compared to Jim Plunkett on the basis of both having won 2 super bowls. And that is flat out ridiculous if you compare their first 7 years in the NFL.
Thing is when you look at these articles is as if Ben's career is over at that point compared to Plunkets entire career. Stupid way to write an article, but you can't assume Ben will do anything from this point forward.

Djfan
07-06-2011, 09:43 PM
Cool! Is this the first monthly version of the "Ben sucks! No he doesn't" thread?

I look forward to it each time.

Dee Dub
07-07-2011, 12:40 PM
The problem with Ben is outside of the AZ winning drive Ben has played mediocre at the QB position in 3 SB's.
Look at Bradshaw or Montana and you have tons of SB tape to watch them solidify their greatness.
Ben has been to 3 SB's and I can pee longer than it would take to watch his SB highlights.

Ben has played 7 years in the NFL. Compare that and what he has done with any QB in the history of the game. If there was such things as a First-7-Years-in-the-League-Hall of Fame...you can bet Ben would be on it.

So..........having said all that...at this pace..Ben will be a lock for first ballot Hall of Fame.

"At this pace," yes...but if his career ended today? I'm not so sure.

Ok…here’s one for you. How many players are in the Hall of Fame who played 7 years? Exactly.

Dee Dub
07-07-2011, 12:42 PM
If he won the SB MVP last year by guiding his team to yet another championship, these ridiculous articles wouldn't even be written. 3 SB rings would equal Brady's tally along with the MVP trophy. Unfortunately, Ben will continue to eat this sandwhich of injustice until he wins his third and an SB MVP along with it. We know that's BS, but it is the only thing that will shut the media traps up our franchise QB.


What makes these articles ridiculous (and the basis for my thread), is that Ben is actually compared to Jim Plunkett on the basis of both having won 2 super bowls. And that is flat out ridiculous if you compare their first 7 years in the NFL.
Thing is when you look at these articles is as if Ben's career is over at that point compared to Plunkets entire career. Stupid way to write an article, but you can't assume Ben will do anything from this point forward.

What would you say about Ben being a lock for the Hall of Fame if for the remainder of his career he never wins another Super Bowl yet continues to put up the same type of numbers during the regular season?

300 Plus career TD’s, 60 plus completion percentage, a 90 plus passer rating, 40,000 plus yards, and a near 40 or so 4th quarter comebacks? And 2 Super Bowl Championships?

I say Lock! And numbers that make any comparison to a Jim Plunkett look stupid.

birtikidis
07-07-2011, 03:18 PM
[quote=AngryAsian]If he won the SB MVP last year by guiding his team to yet another championship, these ridiculous articles wouldn't even be written. 3 SB rings would equal Brady's tally along with the MVP trophy. Unfortunately, Ben will continue to eat this sandwhich of injustice until he wins his third and an SB MVP along with it. We know that's BS, but it is the only thing that will shut the media traps up our franchise QB.


What makes these articles ridiculous (and the basis for my thread), is that Ben is actually compared to Jim Plunkett on the basis of both having won 2 super bowls. And that is flat out ridiculous if you compare their first 7 years in the NFL.
Thing is when you look at these articles is as if Ben's career is over at that point compared to Plunkets entire career. Stupid way to write an article, but you can't assume Ben will do anything from this point forward.

What would you say about Ben being a lock for the Hall of Fame if for the remainder of his career he never wins another Super Bowl yet continues to put up the same type of numbers during the regular season?

300 Plus career TD’s, 60 plus completion percentage, a 90 plus passer rating, 40,000 plus yards, and a near 40 or so 4th quarter comebacks? And 2 Super Bowl Championships?

I say Lock! And numbers that make any comparison to a Jim Plunkett look stupid.[/quote:3crqb6jx]
Since I look at it differently then you, I don't think he would be a lock. You say rest of his career. I say I have no idea how long that could be. IT could be 10 years or he could never play another snap again in his life. That's why I look at it the way I look at it. I think He'd eventually make it, but since he's not a media darling, and he doesn't put up ungodly numbers I think he'd have to wait. Right now, media and other voters see Ben as a top ten talent in the league right now. Obviously everyone thinks Manning and Brady are the best thing in the NFL. We see Ben as in that group, but guess what, the media and voters see Rogers, Rivers and Brees as rounding out the top 5. You think the voters are gonna vote a guy in who isn't seen as a top five talent compared to his peers after 7 years of play? Like I said, you can't guarantee Ben will ever play another game.