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fordfixer
05-16-2011, 11:13 PM
Appeals court backs NFL, lockout remains in place
AP

By DAVE CAMPBELL, AP Sports Writer

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110517/ap_ ... Njb3VydA-- (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110517/ap_on_sp_fo_ne/fbn_nfl_labor;_ylt=AtwqVtYEmyuiTuEi1uDnUVMLMxIF;_y lu=X3oDMTJlbm84MGhzBGFzc2V0A2FwLzIwMTEwNTE3L2Zibl9 uZmxfbGFib3IEY3BvcwMxBHBvcwMyBHNlYwN5bl90b3Bfc3Rvc nkEc2xrA2FwcGVhbHNjb3VydA--)

MINNEAPOLIS – The NFL's lockout remains in place, a federal appeals court ruled Monday. That means the league likely won't get back to business until at least next month — and maybe much longer than that.

The 8th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals said the lockout can stay until a full appeal is heard on whether it is legal. That hearing is scheduled for June 3 in St. Louis, before the same panel that issued this 2-1 decision.

The appellate court said it believes the NFL has proven it "likely will suffer some degree of irreparable harm without a stay." The court also cast doubt on the conclusions of U.S. District Judge Susan Richard Nelson, who ruled April 25 that the lockout should be lifted to save the players from irreversible damage. The 8th Circuit panel put her decision on hold four days later.

"The league has made a strong showing that it is likely to succeed on the merits," the appellate court majority wrote.

The decision came as NFL owners and players finished their latest round of court-ordered mediation behind closed doors, a session that lasted more than eight hours. This was the fifth day of talks in front of U.S. Magistrate Judge Arthur Boylan, the first since April 20.

Neither side would elaborate on the discussions, citing the judge's confidentiality order, but they said they planned to resume talks on Tuesday morning. Michael Hausfeld, an attorney for the retired players who joined the antitrust lawsuit against the league, said the players were reviewing a new proposal from the owners.

"It probably is not one that would be acceptable as is, but it clearly opens a dialogue," Hausfeld said.

Beyond that, both sides stuck to their message.

The owners want to stay out of court, blaming the players for preferring litigation. The players claim they're only interested in playing and that the owners are preventing them and fans from enjoying the game.

"We have an opportunity to resolve this matter and get the game back on the field, and that really should be our exclusive focus," NFL lead negotiator Jeff Pash said.

DeMaurice Smith, the head of the NFL Players Association, said the players have prepared for a lockout for two years, suggesting they're not ready to relent in light of Monday's unfavorable ruling.

"Right now our guys are out there working out for free, because they dig the game," Smith said.

Commissioner Roger Goodell, speaking to Buffalo Bills season ticket holders on a conference call, said he thinks there's "still time" to strike a new collective bargaining agreement.

"But time is running short. It's time to get back to the table and get those issues resolved," Goodell said.

NFLPA president Kevin Mawae told The Associated Press he was disappointed with the 8th Circuit's decision.

"The ruling in granting the stay of the injunction means that the NFL owners can continue to not let football be played," he said.

The appellate court said it would make its decision quickly, a "circumstance that should minimize harm to the players during the offseason and allow the case to be resolved well before the scheduled beginning of the 2011 season."

Indeed, with training camps just two months away and the first preseason game set for Aug. 8, there is restlessness around the league to go with all the uncertainty.

"We'd like to make progress, but it'll be hard to do. We have to wait to see what happens June 3," Pittsburgh Steelers president Art Rooney II said earlier on his way into the federal courthouse for Monday's mediation.

The 8th Circuit's decision to keep the lockout in place could be a signal of how the two sides will fare in the full appeal. The majority opinion, from Judges Steven Colloton and Duane Benton, sided with the NFL. Judge Kermit Bye dissented in favor of the players.

"The district court reasoned that this case does not involve or grow out of a labor dispute because the players no longer are represented by a union," the majority wrote. "We have considerable doubt about this interpretation."

The 8th Circuit has been seen as a more conservative, business-friendly venue for the NFL than the federal courts in Minnesota. Colloton and Benton were both appointed by Republican President George W. Bush; Bye was appointed by President Clinton, a Democrat.

Bye dismissed the conclusions of his fellow judges, just as he did on April 29 in dissenting against a temporary stay. He didn't buy the NFL's argument that it would be unable to "unscramble the egg" — a reference to the chaos of handling player transactions with no CBA in place.

"The preliminary injunction does not dictate the NFL's free agency rules, or any other conduct in general, outside of the lockout," Bye said.

The majority, however, said both sides will suffer "some degree of irreparable harm no matter how this court resolves the motion for a stay pending appeal," and then criticized Nelson sharply.

"We do not agree, however, with the district court's apparent view that the balance of the equities tilts heavily in favor of the players," the majority wrote. "The district court gave little or no weight to the harm caused to the league by an injunction issued in the midst of an ongoing dispute over terms and conditions of employment."

Still in the courts is a separate but related matter. U.S. District Judge David Doty is determining the fate of some $4 billion in broadcast revenue he previously ruled was unfairly secured by the NFL in the last round of contract extensions with the networks to use as leverage in the form of lockout insurance. The players have asked Doty to put that money in escrow and for more than $707 million in damages, too.

The two sides also met for 16 days earlier this year before talks fell apart March 11 and the lockout began. Boylan presided over four days of mediation last month with no signs of progress.

Goodell, Pash and four team owners — Rooney, Mike Brown of the Cincinnati Bengals, John Mara of the New York Giants and Jerry Richardson of the Carolina Panthers — were on hand with their legal team for Monday's session with Boylan.

Smith and three other lawyers for the players were present for their side. Linebacker Ben Leber, one of the players listed as a plaintiff in the still-pending federal antitrust lawsuit against the league, also attended. Hall of Famer Carl Eller and attorneys were there representing the retired players.

Eller helped organize a meeting of 10 fellow retirees over the weekend and another one is scheduled for next week in Chicago with former Bears coach Mike Ditka, sessions portrayed as an effort to unify their push for better benefits, at the NFL's request.

"That's kind of the first hurdle. Something that they want from us and something that we need to do," Eller said

RuthlessBurgher
05-16-2011, 11:24 PM
Yay! More lockout!

Lock...out...LOCK...OUT...LOCK...OUT...LOCK...OUT. ..LOCK...OUT!!!

I can't wait to go out and buy an authentic Jeff Pash jersey...he's my favorite litigator in all this...I wonder if I'll be able to get a court-worn autographed tie?!?!

Let's go lockout (clap, clap...clapclapclap) LET'S GO LOCKOUT!!! (CLAP, CLAP...CLAPCLAPCLAP!!!).

Who wants to meet up for a PlanetSteelers tailgate in St. Louis prior to the June 3rd hearing??? Oh, boy, oh...I'm excited for some major league courtroom action now, baby!!!

:roll:

fordfixer
05-16-2011, 11:37 PM
I will be in Cincinnati on June 3rd but can be in St. Louis on the 4th if you can wait until then 8)

fordfixer
05-16-2011, 11:42 PM
NFL players must decide how long to keep battling
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=A ... pot_051611 (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=As6fO8ZBudscGHlk.mdgRFBDubYF?slug=dw-wetzel_appeals_court_puts_players_in_tough_spot_05 1611)

By Dan Wetzel,
The bad news is all there on Page 11, clear as can be for NFL players to read. It’s the most depressing page of the most depressing ruling on the most depressing day of their two-month labor dispute with the league.

The United States Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals didn’t just grant NFL owners a stay, which keeps the lockout going. It all but assured that it’s next ruling in June would be even more crushing for the players, who had gotten their hopes up after Judge Susan Nelson’s initial decision last month.

Suddenly it’s well-past time for the players to consider how far they are willing to take this battle.

Labor disputes really get painful when you start fighting for what’s right, not what’s best. In this case, are players really willing to accept missed weeks of the season – and thus missed checks in the bank – in an effort to attempt a long-shot war of financial attrition against a pack of billionaires?

That’s where this appears to be headed, at least after the players’ once-promising legal strategy was delivered a crushing counter attack.

Or just turn to Page 11, where they can consider this sledgehammer to last month’s carefully worded, pro-player decision by Judge Nelson:

“Our present view is this interpretation of the [Clayton] Act is unlikely to prevail.”

Or one paragraph later when the appeals court questioned the validity of Nelson making a ruling at all.

“We have serious doubts that the district court had jurisdiction to enjoin the League’s lockout, and accordingly conclude that the League has made a strong showing that it is likely to succeed on the merits.”

There is more there and on other pages, such as additional views on the Clayton Act and the Norris-LaGuardia Act and a whole bunch of other legalese that fans generally don’t care about.

The question is whether we’re going to get some football soon, or, most precisely, will the New Orleans Saints and Green Bay Packers kick off the season on Sept. 8?

After Monday’s ruling, it increasingly appears that decision will rest with the players, who without the legal system on their side may be forced to bend.

At some point these things become less and less about whose right and more and more about who’s got the might. Absence legal pressure, the owners have the chips on the table to lean on the players until their proposal looks better and better.

Momentum in this lockout has obviously bounced back and forth – just last month it was the NFL Players Association that was celebrating. No one knows for sure what the Eighth Circuit will do, although the tea leaves are pretty easy to read. The same judges that ruled Monday will run in full on June 3.

One side was always going to have a lot of power then and right now it looks like it’ll be the owners.

Previous analysis was that the Eighth Circuit might struggle to find merit in overturning Judge Nelson’s pro-player decision. Well, that was all wrong. If this is a precursor to what’s coming then the players are in a lot of trouble. They can appeal all the way to the Supreme Court eventually, but that’s a long-term strategy with little guarantee of success.

“It is now time to devote all of our energy to reaching a comprehensive agreement that will improve the game for the benefit of current and retired players, teams, and, most importantly, the fans,” the NFL wrote in a statement. “… The league and players, without further delay, should control their own destiny and decide the future of the NFL together through negotiation.”

The NFLPA offered a terse response, which is always a sign of a bad break: “The NFL’s request for a stay of the lockout that was granted [Monday] means no football.”

It’d be nice if the owners use this freshly won advantage to craft a reasonable offer, allowing a face-saving measure for the other side. It’d also be unlikely. The owners’ plan has always been to bleed the players financially and wait for them to crack. If this comes down to a battle of resources the owners are going to win. There’s never been any doubt of that.

Emotions run high in all labor disputes and the players have plenty reason to be angry. It’s the owners that locked them out. It’s the owners that are demanding the players give hundreds of thousands dollars back on the most recent collective bargaining deal. It’s the owners that have shuttered a league that was soaring in popularity.

It’s the kind of stuff that causes people to dig in.

Once the anger subsides, the questions need to be asked. How deep do they want to dig? When it’s over will it be worth lost wages? Are they going to concede eventually anyway?

The players needed legal assistance here. They decertified their union to push this plan. They put a lot into a well-presented argument. Now, unless the appellate judges have a major change of heart, it looks like a lost cause.

The road map for how this is going to play out is becoming obvious. The players can push on anyway and take it to the end. Or they can cut to the chase and try to find a deal.

For the rank-and-file, labor disputes shouldn’t always be seen as something that is won or lost. Settled and forgotten is often a smarter route.

hawaiiansteel
05-17-2011, 02:16 AM
Report: “Breakthrough” in talks

Posted by Mike Florio on May 16, 2011

http://nbcprofootballtalk.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/carlellerapril14ap.jpg?w=250

And so when it appeared that no progress would be or could be made in mediation with both sides aiming for leverage in lieu of compromise — indeed, Steelers Art Rooney, II, said so on his way into Monday’s talks — it’s fitting in this crazy up-and-down, back-and-forth process that on a day when no one expected progress to be made, progress apparently has been made.

Sal Paolantonio of ESPN reports, citing Hall of Fame defensive end Carl Eller, that a breakthrough has occurred in the negotiations. Eller, who is one of the named plaintiffs in a lawsuit brought by former players and consolidated with the Tom Brady antitrust case, said that U.S. Magistrate Judge Arthur Boylan asked the owners at the outset of the day to make a new proposal, and the owners have agreed to do so.

Currently, the proposal is being formulated. Per Paolantonio, the players are very encouraged by the developments, and we think they should be. Given that the players never responded to the league’s March 11 offer, the NFL easily could have balked at the request to make a new offer as an invitation to bid against itself. By agreeing to make a new offer, the NFL has shown good faith, which possibly has helped to thaw the relationship between the two sides, at least a little.

The mediation will continue on Monday night until 9:00 p.m. CT, and Paolantonio said the overall mood is improving. The session is scheduled to continue tomorrow only. If real progress is being made, here’s hoping that gets extended.

Whether at this unlikeliest of junctures in the labor dispute a deal can be reached hinges largely on the quality of the offer that the owners make. In many non-economic respects, the offer extended on March 11 was well within the appropriate ballpark, including player-friendly terms like a tabling of the 18-game season for at least two years and the use of third-party arbitration in drug and steroids cases. The key will be, and has been, the money; if the NFL is willing to make firm guarantees on a per-team salary cap with a tight floor and a fair split on the so-called “true up” (i.e., any money earned over and above the league’s revenue projection), a deal could be struck.

There’s still a long way to go, especially since both sides as of this morning seemed to be intent on letting it ride through the Eighth Circuit’s ruling on the lifting of the lockout. Also, the progress came before the ruling on the motion to stay the ruling lifting the lockout; at this point, the impact of that ruling isn’t known. Still, the only way to get a deal that both sides truly deem to be satisfactory comes from leveraging the uncertainty into a compromise, and abandoning the quest for the kind of leverage that necessarily will require the side without it to do a bad deal, which would put us right back in this same mess before too long.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... -in-talks/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2011/05/16/report-breakthrough-in-talks/)

Oviedo
05-17-2011, 07:54 AM
Owners 3-Players 2

Time for the players to fire their idiot "Not a Union" leader Demarius Smith who has screwed up this up by stopping the mediation and taking it into the courts. Smith sold a bunch of BS to players about decertification and the courts and he has been exposed as a fraud. Get him, and his radical left wing labor views, out of the picture and I bet an agreement comes soon. Sit down and get an agreement and get out of the courts.

Remember--every win by the owners ensures that the NFL does not become MLB.

feltdizz
05-17-2011, 09:22 AM
Owners 3-Players 2

Time for the players to fire their idiot "Not a Union" leader Demarius Smith who has screwed up this up by stopping the mediation and taking it into the courts. Smith sold a bunch of BS to players about decertification and the courts and he has been exposed as a fraud. Get him, and his radical left wing labor views, out of the picture and I bet an agreement comes soon. Sit down and get an agreement and get out of the courts.

Remember--every win by the owners ensures that the NFL does not become MLB.

yep, bow down to the radical right wing labor views because they work so well. :roll:

The NFL will never become the MLB... no one believes that scare tactic.

Sugar
05-17-2011, 10:09 AM
Owners 3-Players 2

Time for the players to fire their idiot "Not a Union" leader Demarius Smith who has screwed up this up by stopping the mediation and taking it into the courts. Smith sold a bunch of BS to players about decertification and the courts and he has been exposed as a fraud. Get him, and his radical left wing labor views, out of the picture and I bet an agreement comes soon. Sit down and get an agreement and get out of the courts.

Remember--every win by the owners ensures that the NFL does not become MLB.

First, the name is DeMaurice Smith. I'm not sure why that is so hard. Second, why would they fire him? This litigation is going to take a while so sit back and get your popcorn. We all hope they will settle on something, but I'm not one to count on it.

Oviedo
05-17-2011, 10:09 AM
Owners 3-Players 2

Time for the players to fire their idiot "Not a Union" leader Demarius Smith who has screwed up this up by stopping the mediation and taking it into the courts. Smith sold a bunch of BS to players about decertification and the courts and he has been exposed as a fraud. Get him, and his radical left wing labor views, out of the picture and I bet an agreement comes soon. Sit down and get an agreement and get out of the courts.

Remember--every win by the owners ensures that the NFL does not become MLB.

yep, bow down to the radical right wing labor views because they work so well. :roll:

The NFL will never become the MLB... no one believes that scare tactic.

You mean "radical right wing labor views" like the owner of a business has the right to decide how he runs his business? That is truly a radical notion that could never work.

Obviously you don't own a business or manage one.

RuthlessBurgher
05-17-2011, 10:14 AM
Owners 3-Players 2

Time for the players to fire their idiot "Not a Union" leader Demarius Smith who has screwed up this up by stopping the mediation and taking it into the courts. Smith sold a bunch of BS to players about decertification and the courts and he has been exposed as a fraud. Get him, and his radical left wing labor views, out of the picture and I bet an agreement comes soon. Sit down and get an agreement and get out of the courts.

Remember--every win by the owners ensures that the NFL does not become MLB.

Frankly, I could care less if the owners "win" or the players "win" this thing. Fans taking sides in this dispute is pointless. It doesn't impact me one iota whether the players get 60% of total revenue after the owners take $1 billion off the top, or if the owners skim off $2 billion instead and the players are forced to take an 18% pay cut. All I care about is when this is settled, and when there will be football again. It looked like we were close to returning the football when the doors were reopened (for a day at least) during the draft, but now it looks like we are even further away from football than at any other time in this process. Glad you enjoy this owners' "win" over the "evil" DeMaurice Smith. If the lockout was lifted, negotiations could have taken place behind the scenes while minicamps, OTA's, training camps, and games were actually taking place (this is what occurred back in the early 90's in the Reggie White case). Personally, I'm ticked off that starting the season on time is looking more and more bleak by the day.

Oviedo
05-17-2011, 10:33 AM
Owners 3-Players 2

Time for the players to fire their idiot "Not a Union" leader Demarius Smith who has screwed up this up by stopping the mediation and taking it into the courts. Smith sold a bunch of BS to players about decertification and the courts and he has been exposed as a fraud. Get him, and his radical left wing labor views, out of the picture and I bet an agreement comes soon. Sit down and get an agreement and get out of the courts.

Remember--every win by the owners ensures that the NFL does not become MLB.

Frankly, I could care less if the owners "win" or the players "win" this thing. Fans taking sides in this dispute is pointless. It doesn't impact me one iota whether the players get 60% of total revenue after the owners take $1 billion off the top, or if the owners skim off $2 billion instead and the players are forced to take an 18% pay cut. All I care about is when this is settled, and when there will be football again. It looked like we were close to returning the football when the doors were reopened (for a day at least) during the draft, but now it looks like we are even further away from football than at any other time in this process. Glad you enjoy this owners' "win" over the "evil" DeMaurice Smith. If the lockout was lifted, negotiations could have taken place behind the scenes while minicamps, OTA's, training camps, and games were actually taking place (this is what occurred back in the early 90's in the Reggie White case). Personally, I'm ticked off that starting the season on time is looking more and more bleak by the day.

I agree with everything you say except that I think this decision actually jumpstarts serious negotiations because the next phase of the litigation that takes place is June 3rd infront of these same three judges. What do you think is going to happen? They are going to say "oops, we made a mistake."

This is not about the owners winning for the sake of winning for me. This is about those who have a vested interested in the long term viability and profitability of the game controlling the future of the game. Maybe I have an irrational fear of what happened in baseball happening to football, but IMO anytime the players control the structure of the game to maximize their incomes in the short term it turns out bad for the overall sports product in the long term.

steeler_fan_in_t.o.
05-17-2011, 11:45 AM
I have said this before and still believe it.........

As a fan, the best thing for a sport is for owners to win in a labor dispute. The reason being is that when players win then salaries skyrocket and teams must base their personnel decisions on economics, not sport.

I understand that players are people, they have families, they want to have a say in where they play etc, but as a fan those are the things that we so often dislike about sports.

The non-guaranteed contract in the NFL assures that if players' production falls off then he is no longer retained by your team because "we can't afford to cut him and nobody will trade for him with that contract".

We don't see the star player being traded at the trade deadline for a bag of pucks like in the NHL (after all, what good is a bag of pucks for a football team) so that the team can unload a salary.

Football decisions for football teams require that the owners retain most of the control in a labor dispute. If that means that I am advocating slavery as some players would suggest then so be it. But I can do so with a clear conscious as they deposit their millions in the bank.

feltdizz
05-17-2011, 11:55 AM
Owners 3-Players 2

Time for the players to fire their idiot "Not a Union" leader Demarius Smith who has screwed up this up by stopping the mediation and taking it into the courts. Smith sold a bunch of BS to players about decertification and the courts and he has been exposed as a fraud. Get him, and his radical left wing labor views, out of the picture and I bet an agreement comes soon. Sit down and get an agreement and get out of the courts.

Remember--every win by the owners ensures that the NFL does not become MLB.

yep, bow down to the radical right wing labor views because they work so well. :roll:

The NFL will never become the MLB... no one believes that scare tactic.

You mean "radical right wing labor views" like the owner of a business has the right to decide how he runs his business? That is truly a radical notion that could never work.

Obviously you don't own a business or manage one.

I don't, but my boss does. :wink:
I asked his opinion a while back on the lockout and to my surprise he says the owners can screw themselves. Maybe it's because he is a season ticket owner and Jerry Richardson put out an awful product, raised ticket prices and can't complete a sentence without offending someone...

The NFL isn't like any other business so it really doesn't matter if I owned one or not.

hawaiiansteel
05-17-2011, 12:21 PM
Owners 3-Players 2

Remember--every win by the owners ensures that the NFL does not become MLB.


and the Steelers don't become the Pirates...

Oviedo
05-17-2011, 12:32 PM
I have said this before and still believe it.........

As a fan, the best thing for a sport is for owners to win in a labor dispute. The reason being is that when players win then salaries skyrocket and teams must base their personnel decisions on economics, not sport.

I understand that players are people, they have families, they want to have a say in where they play etc, but as a fan those are the things that we so often dislike about sports.

The non-guaranteed contract in the NFL assures that if players' production falls off then he is no longer retained by your team because "we can't afford to cut him and nobody will trade for him with that contract".

We don't see the star player being traded at the trade deadline for a bag of pucks like in the NHL (after all, what good is a bag of pucks for a football team) so that the team can unload a salary.

Football decisions for football teams require that the owners retain most of the control in a labor dispute. If that means that I am advocating slavery as some players would suggest then so be it. But I can do so with a clear conscious as they deposit their millions in the bank.

Good to see that fans "north of the border" get it :Clap :Clap

Mister Pittsburgh
05-17-2011, 12:38 PM
The players can still play football this year. Go play in Canada or the UFL. Start your own league.....some of you have enough money to go together and do it.

Oviedo
05-17-2011, 12:42 PM
The players can still play football this year. Go play in Canada or the UFL. Start your own league.....some of you have enough money to go together and do it.

...and when they are responsible for profit and loss watch how quickly they start to act like the "evil owners." Once they have money coming out of their pockets to pay for others they will change their tune.

RuthlessBurgher
05-17-2011, 01:22 PM
The players can still play football this year. Go play in Canada or the UFL. Start your own league.....some of you have enough money to go together and do it.

...and when they are responsible for profit and loss watch how quickly they start to act like the "evil owners." Once they have money coming out of their pockets to pay for others they will change their tune.

Which NFL owner is in such dire financial straits that he has to pay out of own pockets...dipping into his own personal bank account...just to meet payroll so that his team does not go bankrupt? I forgot which NFL team that is...

The NHL lockout made sense, because multiple teams were truly losing money hand over fist under their economic model. That needed to change for the betterment of the sport, and a lockout was required to make it happen...I understand that.

This NFL lockout is nothing like that. NFL teams are more prosperous than ever. These billionaires even have us fools handing them money to build their football palaces with tax dollars. NFL ownership is a moneymaking racket with minimal risk compared to other businesses. The owners just can't stand having the lowly players take up so much of the financial pie, so they locked them out for a money grab, to correct what they felt was a bad deal for them several years ago.

But how bad was that deal, really? Bad enough to bring the most successful sports business model to its knees with screetching halt to operations? Not quite. The owners simply can't agree on an economic model among themselves (where there is a huge disparity between markets like Buffalo, Cincinnati, and Jacksonville vs. markets like Dallas, Washington D.C., and Boston), so they want to make the players give back to make up for this.

Oviedo
05-17-2011, 01:42 PM
The players can still play football this year. Go play in Canada or the UFL. Start your own league.....some of you have enough money to go together and do it.

...and when they are responsible for profit and loss watch how quickly they start to act like the "evil owners." Once they have money coming out of their pockets to pay for others they will change their tune.

Which NFL owner is in such dire financial straits that he has to pay out of own pockets...dipping into his own personal bank account...just to meet payroll so that his team does not go bankrupt? I forgot which NFL team that is...

The NHL lockout made sense, because multiple teams were truly losing money hand over fist under their economic model. That needed to change for the betterment of the sport, and a lockout was required to make it happen...I understand that.

This NFL lockout is nothing like that. NFL teams are more prosperous than ever. These billionaires even have us fools handing them money to build their football palaces with tax dollars. NFL ownership is a moneymaking racket with minimal risk compared to other businesses. The owners just can't stand having the lowly players take up so much of the financial pie, so they locked them out for a money grab, to correct what they felt was a bad deal for them several years ago.

But how bad was that deal, really? Bad enough to bring the most successful sports business model to its knees with screetching halt to operations? Not quite. The owners simply can't agree on an economic model among themselves (where there is a huge disparity between markets like Buffalo, Cincinnati, and Jacksonville vs. markets like Dallas, Washington D.C., and Boston), so they want to make the players give back to make up for this.

And what is wrong with them wanting to establish a business model that all 32 teams can live with? Isn't that why they are a league? It is far better than baseball where everything you see on TV is Red Sox-Yankees because the economic model has been so tilted towards a few teams.

feltdizz
05-17-2011, 02:16 PM
The players can still play football this year. Go play in Canada or the UFL. Start your own league.....some of you have enough money to go together and do it.

...and when they are responsible for profit and loss watch how quickly they start to act like the "evil owners." Once they have money coming out of their pockets to pay for others they will change their tune.

Which NFL owner is in such dire financial straits that he has to pay out of own pockets...dipping into his own personal bank account...just to meet payroll so that his team does not go bankrupt? I forgot which NFL team that is...

The NHL lockout made sense, because multiple teams were truly losing money hand over fist under their economic model. That needed to change for the betterment of the sport, and a lockout was required to make it happen...I understand that.

This NFL lockout is nothing like that. NFL teams are more prosperous than ever. These billionaires even have us fools handing them money to build their football palaces with tax dollars. NFL ownership is a moneymaking racket with minimal risk compared to other businesses. The owners just can't stand having the lowly players take up so much of the financial pie, so they locked them out for a money grab, to correct what they felt was a bad deal for them several years ago.

But how bad was that deal, really? Bad enough to bring the most successful sports business model to its knees with screetching halt to operations? Not quite. The owners simply can't agree on an economic model among themselves (where there is a huge disparity between markets like Buffalo, Cincinnati, and Jacksonville vs. markets like Dallas, Washington D.C., and Boston), so they want to make the players give back to make up for this.

And what is wrong with them wanting to establish a business model that all 32 teams can live with? Isn't that why they are a league? It is far better than baseball where everything you see on TV is Red Sox-Yankees because the economic model has been so tilted towards a few teams.

The NFL will never have a model that all teams can live with because there are a few powerful owners who want it to be Red Sox-Yankees.

You keep talking about the MLB tilt... it's baloney. The Steelers have been to 3 SB's since 2005.

The Yankees and Red Sox have been to 2 World Series combined in the same time frame.

The economic model doesn't translate to World Series and the past 10 years proves it. The problem is baseball has so many damn games no one outside of those 2 franchises really cares about the sport until the end of August.

Oviedo
05-17-2011, 02:31 PM
The players can still play football this year. Go play in Canada or the UFL. Start your own league.....some of you have enough money to go together and do it.

...and when they are responsible for profit and loss watch how quickly they start to act like the "evil owners." Once they have money coming out of their pockets to pay for others they will change their tune.

Which NFL owner is in such dire financial straits that he has to pay out of own pockets...dipping into his own personal bank account...just to meet payroll so that his team does not go bankrupt? I forgot which NFL team that is...

The NHL lockout made sense, because multiple teams were truly losing money hand over fist under their economic model. That needed to change for the betterment of the sport, and a lockout was required to make it happen...I understand that.

This NFL lockout is nothing like that. NFL teams are more prosperous than ever. These billionaires even have us fools handing them money to build their football palaces with tax dollars. NFL ownership is a moneymaking racket with minimal risk compared to other businesses. The owners just can't stand having the lowly players take up so much of the financial pie, so they locked them out for a money grab, to correct what they felt was a bad deal for them several years ago.

But how bad was that deal, really? Bad enough to bring the most successful sports business model to its knees with screetching halt to operations? Not quite. The owners simply can't agree on an economic model among themselves (where there is a huge disparity between markets like Buffalo, Cincinnati, and Jacksonville vs. markets like Dallas, Washington D.C., and Boston), so they want to make the players give back to make up for this.

And what is wrong with them wanting to establish a business model that all 32 teams can live with? Isn't that why they are a league? It is far better than baseball where everything you see on TV is Red Sox-Yankees because the economic model has been so tilted towards a few teams.

The NFL will never have a model that all teams can live with because there are a few powerful owners who want it to be Red Sox-Yankees.

You keep talking about the MLB tilt... it's baloney. The Steelers have been to 3 SB's since 2005.

The Yankees and Red Sox have been to 2 World Series combined in the same time frame.

The economic model doesn't translate to World Series and the past 10 years proves it. The problem is baseball has so many damn games no one outside of those 2 franchises really cares about the sport until the end of August.

The Pirates won two World Series in the 70's and were a perennial play off team. Owners lost control of baseball in the 90's, how have things been for the small market teams since then. Would anyone who ever grew up with the Pirates of the 70's have thought they would have 18 seasons of losing records..no way!!! Don't think that the NFL can't have it's apple cart upset too if the players get to do what baseball players can. Never say never.

feltdizz
05-17-2011, 03:01 PM
Florida Marlins won a WS

Aneheim won a WS..

Tampa is doing good right now.

It's not the system it's the Pirate owners who screwed over the team. They refuse to invest in their product and are happy collecting their revenue share and turning a small profit.

If the Pirates really wanted to contend they would have hied Jim Leyland when he said he was interested. The reason they wouldn't hire him is because he would have been vocal about putting out a winning product.

If Mario was allowed to purchase the team you would see a change.

hawaiiansteel
05-19-2011, 02:10 AM
Cindrich: Damage is already done by NFL lockout

Wednesday, May 18, 2011
By Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette


Poorly played football, more injuries, young men losing their chance forever to make it in the game. Those are the body blows the NFL took when a court affirmed the owners' right to continue to lock out their players at least into June, said Pittsburgh sports attorney Ralph Cindrich.

And those negative outcomes will happen even if the lockout ends before training camps open in August, he said.

"What a lot of people are missing out on is the game suffers," said Cindrich, a former Pitt and NFL player who has spent more than 30 years representing pro players. "If you ask coaches, how will the game be now compared to last year, they'll say there will be no comparison. There's no way you can get all your players together in such a short time."

Usually, the Steelers and every other NFL team would have been practicing the past week or two along with their draft picks and 10 or so rookie free agents. None of that has occurred since the lockout began March 12 and was lifted for only four days before the draft in April.

The ruling by the federal appeals court in St. Louis on Monday -- overturning a lower court decision that had lifted the lockout temporarily -- assured that players would continue to be locked out for at least a month. The same three-judge panel that ruled 2-1 in favor of the owners on Monday will start hearing the full case on the legality of the lockout on June 3 and it could be weeks after that until it issues a ruling.

Court-ordered negotiations before a mediator in Minneapolis ended Tuesday after just two days and the sides announced they would resume talks on June 7.

That means rookies have no chance to start learning and showing what they can do, and it will be especially difficult for an undrafted rookie -- or one drafted late -- to make a team.

"I don't know if you can define 'irreparable harm' for a free agent rookie," Cindrich said after the appeals court wrote in its majority opinion that there could be irreparable harm done to the owners if they were not permitted to maintain their lockout. "He's lost; he has nowhere to go."

Players such as Pitt fullback Henry Hynoski may never get the same chance as one of Cindrich's clients, Colts center Jeff Saturday.

"Jeff Saturday made Pro Bowls and was a free agent rookie. You look at the number of guys affected by this. That window of opportunity is so small, once it passes you may never get a shot again. Next year, there will be all new guys."

Cindrich noted that veteran free agents -- such as cornerback Ike Taylor of the Steelers -- also will be affected, especially quarterbacks.

"They have to go to a new team, learn the system, learn the players. One other factor: injuries. I don't know if anyone will be surprised to see more serious injuries this year."

Cindrich called Monday's ruling a large victory for the owners.

"It's a major gain for the owners if they are put in a position to where they can lock out the players as the season nears. They will surround the fort and starve out the players."

He believes the one area in which the players could regain some advantage and negotiation leverage is if federal Judge David Doty awards them a substantial settlement when he rules on the damages owed to the players in the court battle over television broadcast fees that the owners would receive even if there is a lockout during the season.

He ruled the owners violated their agreement with the players by negotiating the multi-billion-dollar television deal. The players are seeking at least $707 million in damages.

"The unknown card is Judge Doty," Cindrich said. "He is the one who has the TV revenue case. He has the ability to use an injunction and damages. The damage portion there, most people feel he has the power to level the playing field on that particular area."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11138/11 ... z1MlhDHD4p (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/11138/1147237-66-0.stm#ixzz1MlhDHD4p)