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View Full Version : Did We Waste Our 3rd and 4th Round Picks?



MadSteel
05-01-2011, 07:11 PM
We haven't had any luck with mid draft corners in recent past (Lewis and Burnett), so why would Allen and Brown be any different. They do not look any better than those two did in college. I hope Allen n Brown kick butt, however they may just be a couple more fillers until another draft or two.

I know we couldnt pass on Heyward, but we should have traded up and got Prince. And Yes, I do know better then the Steelers FO.

birtikidis
05-01-2011, 07:14 PM
We haven't had any luck with mid draft corners in recent past (Lewis and Burnett), so why would Allen and Brown be any different. They do not look any better than those two did in college. I hope Allen n Brown kick butt, however they may just be a couple more fillers until another draft or two.

I know we couldnt pass on Heyward, but we should have traded up and got Prince. And Yes, I do know better then the Steelers FO.
I wouldn't have traded for Prince. Corner is not as big a need as everyone seems to think.

papillon
05-01-2011, 07:26 PM
Of course they're wasted picks, the Steelers make a habit of wasting draft picks.

Pappy

isonator07
05-01-2011, 07:34 PM
We got one of the biggest steals in the draft IMO at 31 in Cam Heyward. I live in Ohio (UGH) and watched most of the OSU games this year. Heyward is an absolute monster. His overall effect on a game goes beyond his stats. His pressure on Qbs forced sooooo many poor throws. He was hands down the best defender on one of the best Defenses in college football. He also played in a system that is very similar to our D. We now have our DE's set for a while. We solidified one whole position with Ziggy and Cam.

Also lets not give up on Butler or the 2 corners we took. Cortez looks like a bit of a project but so was Ike. I feel better about these 2 corners than the ones we've drafted in the last couple years. Time will tell, but I think this might be Tomlin/Colbert's best draft yet!

hawaiiansteel
05-01-2011, 07:39 PM
We haven't had any luck with mid draft corners in recent past (Lewis and Burnett), so why would Allen and Brown be any different. They do not look any better than those two did in college. I hope Allen n Brown kick butt, however they may just be a couple more fillers until another draft or two.

I know we couldnt pass on Heyward, but we should have traded up and got Prince. And Yes, I do know better then the Steelers FO.


what are you, Mad? :D

D Rock
05-01-2011, 07:44 PM
http://images.quickblogcast.com/1/4/4/3/5/262663-253441/CarnellLake.jpg?a=34

steelblood
05-01-2011, 07:54 PM
3rd-5th round picks are often fringe starter/role player or project picks. Keenan Lewis was a project pick and Burnett was a fringe starter/role player. I still think Burnett has what it takes to be a nickel back in this league. Lewis has not panned out. But, that doesn't mean you stop taking project picks. Ike Taylor was a 4th round project pick.

birtikidis
05-01-2011, 07:55 PM
I'm not saying the Heyward pick was bad. I agree with the assessment that he is a two gap 3-4 end, he'll never have stats, but He'll have a ton of double teams. I wouldn't give up on Butler either. same with Lewis. Even Bmac. Corner is far from our biggest worry, and we're lucky to be in a situation where we can develop these young guys now.

insanesteelersfan
05-01-2011, 08:03 PM
First off, Burnett was a 5th rounder, and not a 3rd rounder. Second, I think it's a bit too early to write off Lewis as a Bad 3rd rounder. And I'm GLAD our front office doesn't listen to you and your logic. Cause, given the steelers recent luck with 3rd and 4th round WR...Willie Reid & Danny Farmer....I guess if YOU were in charge of our draft,,,,a little guy named Mike Wallace would probably be a Raven right now :owned

D Rock
05-01-2011, 08:12 PM
First off, Burnett was a 5th rounder, and not a 3rd rounder. Second, I think it's a bit too early to write off Lewis as a Bad 3rd rounder. And I'm GLAD our front office doesn't listen to you and your logic. Cause, given the steelers recent luck with 3rd and 4th round WR...Willie Reid & Danny Farmer....I guess if YOU were in charge of our draft,,,,a little guy named Mike Wallace would probably be a Raven right now :owned


Recent?

Danny Farmer was drafted in 2000. Even if he had made the team, he'd be nearing retirement right now.


You really think you're hot sh1t don't you?

birtikidis
05-01-2011, 08:15 PM
what's the average that a 3rd rounder is a "success" in the NFL.. like 30%... So, the fact is, we hit more often then average on all our picks *except the 5th round* so, I'll take the front office and trust them.

MadSteel
05-01-2011, 08:23 PM
what's the average that a 3rd rounder is a "success" in the NFL.. like 30%... So, the fact is, we hit more often then average on all our picks *except the 5th round* so, I'll take the front office and trust them.

Like I said, I know better than they do. But seriously, CB is a big need for us. We lost the Super Bowl because we couldnt cover Jordy Nelson!

insanesteelersfan
05-01-2011, 09:05 PM
what's the average that a 3rd rounder is a "success" in the NFL.. like 30%... So, the fact is, we hit more often then average on all our picks *except the 5th round* so, I'll take the front office and trust them.

Like I said, I know better than they do. But seriously, CB is a big need for us. We lost the Super Bowl because we couldnt cover Jordy Nelson!




And HELLO...we just took care of it by drafting Curtis Brown.....Duh!!!

birtikidis
05-01-2011, 09:05 PM
what's the average that a 3rd rounder is a "success" in the NFL.. like 30%... So, the fact is, we hit more often then average on all our picks *except the 5th round* so, I'll take the front office and trust them.

Like I said, I know better than they do. But seriously, CB is a big need for us. We lost the Super Bowl because we couldnt cover Jordy Nelson!
I disagree. I think we lost the super bowl because we turned the ball over three times. once on a pick 6. I also would say that our offensive line was pi$$ poor. Though, most posters think it was their best game, it seems to me that when they showed the graphic of how many times Ben had been hit, it was a LOT higher then it should have been. Just because they didn't suck as bad as they usually do doesn't mean it was any good. Weren't two of our turnovers on THEIR side of the 50? yep. Didn't our "awesome" blocking TE completely Whiff on the his block of clay mathews on Mendy's fumble? Yep. Didn't Kemo COMPLETELY miss his block on the pick 6? YEP.

birtikidis
05-01-2011, 09:08 PM
Oh and how everyone says that Brady tore us up. Well, that was a defense that the BROWNS tore apart and we couldn't do $hit against.
same thing with the Saints game. The BROWNS tore them up.
Two garbage defenses that we couldn't do SQUAT against.

insanesteelersfan
05-01-2011, 09:15 PM
what's the average that a 3rd rounder is a "success" in the NFL.. like 30%... So, the fact is, we hit more often then average on all our picks *except the 5th round* so, I'll take the front office and trust them.

Like I said, I know better than they do. But seriously, CB is a big need for us. We lost the Super Bowl because we couldnt cover Jordy Nelson!
I disagree. I think we lost the super bowl because we turned the ball over three times. once on a pick 6. I also would say that our offensive line was pi$$ poor. Though, most posters think it was their best game, it seems to me that when they showed the graphic of how many times Ben had been hit, it was a LOT higher then it should have been. Just because they didn't suck as bad as they usually do doesn't mean it was any good. Weren't two of our turnovers on THEIR side of the 50? yep. Didn't our "awesome" blocking TE completely Whiff on the his block of clay mathews on Mendy's fumble? Yep. Didn't Kemo COMPLETELY miss his block on the pick 6? YEP.



AMEN my Brother. Look, he's right. I mean as well as our ground game was in the Super Bowl, the loss of Pouncey clearly made a difference in line adjusments on Packer Blitz packages. No offense to Legursky, he did his best, and I'm not crying injuries as to why we lost. Bottom line, we were right there in that game, and the late Pick, and the fumble by Mendenhall cost us this game. I mean their defense was ranked pretty high to, and we totally out gained them...it was just the critical mistakes at the wrong time, that's all.

Eddie Spaghetti
05-01-2011, 09:19 PM
save you breath.

most posters here think legursky is a pro-bowler based on that game alone. really makes me LOL. i have even seen some advocating moving pouncey to RG so we can get this guy on the field. hilarious.

Slapstick
05-01-2011, 09:22 PM
I'd rather have Legursky on the field instead of Kemo...

Eddie Spaghetti
05-01-2011, 09:24 PM
legursky would get abused as an every down, every game player.

insanesteelersfan
05-01-2011, 09:25 PM
save you breath.

most posters here think legursky is a pro-bowler based on that game alone. really makes me LOL. i have even seen some advocating moving pouncey to RG so we can get this guy on the field. hilarious.



Eddie, Legursky actually did do a great job in the game when it came to BASIC. Run straight ahead on the D calls. He blew Raji off the ball and Jenkins several times. But, the problem was being smart enough to make the quick line call changes,,,especially on passing downs where Green Bay changed their defense up. It totally made the difference on one of Ben's Interceptions that was NOT Ben's fault. I like Legursky eddie, YOU like him to I bet. But starting over Maurkice ?....Those posters need serious help :2c

Slapstick
05-01-2011, 09:27 PM
legursky would get abused as an every down, every game player.

Kemo gets abused and whiffs on blocks...

With Legursky, you would at least have a reduction in senseless personal fouls...

Eddie Spaghetti
05-01-2011, 09:30 PM
save you breath.

most posters here think legursky is a pro-bowler based on that game alone. really makes me LOL. i have even seen some advocating moving pouncey to RG so we can get this guy on the field. hilarious.



Eddie, Legursky actually did do a great job in the game when it came to BASIC. Run straight ahead on the D calls. He blew Raji off the ball and Jenkins several times. But, the problem was being smart enough to make the quick line call changes,,,especially on passing downs where Green Bay changed their defense up. It totally made the difference on one of Ben's Interceptions that was NOT Ben's fault. I like Legursky eddie, YOU like him to I bet. But starting over Maurkice ?....Those posters need serious help :2c

disagree wholeheartedly.

legursky is very good at calling out protections as the coaches have stated. he is just not physical enough to succeed game in and game out.

and raji lines up over the guard spot the majority of the snaps.

insanesteelersfan
05-01-2011, 09:31 PM
legursky would get abused as an every down, every game player.

Kemo gets abused and whiffs on blocks...

With Legursky, you would at least have a reduction in senseless personal fouls...




He definitely got you there Eddie :Clap

MadSteel
05-01-2011, 09:34 PM
what's the average that a 3rd rounder is a "success" in the NFL.. like 30%... So, the fact is, we hit more often then average on all our picks *except the 5th round* so, I'll take the front office and trust them.

Like I said, I know better than they do. But seriously, CB is a big need for us. We lost the Super Bowl because we couldnt cover Jordy Nelson!
I disagree. I think we lost the super bowl because we turned the ball over three times. once on a pick 6. I also would say that our offensive line was pi$$ poor. Though, most posters think it was their best game, it seems to me that when they showed the graphic of how many times Ben had been hit, it was a LOT higher then it should have been. Just because they didn't suck as bad as they usually do doesn't mean it was any good. Weren't two of our turnovers on THEIR side of the 50? yep. Didn't our "awesome" blocking TE completely Whiff on the his block of clay mathews on Mendy's fumble? Yep. Didn't Kemo COMPLETELY miss his block on the pick 6? YEP.

It wasnt just our DB's because those 3 to's really hurt, but our CB's were exposed heavily by the Packers and if we dont get continued pressure on the QB like our D is designed we will continue to get kicked in the teeth in 2011 on pass d. Now that I think about it, that is something that doesnt happen often when Aaron Smith is in the game and healthy. Our LB's do a lot better when that guys motor is running.

Eddie Spaghetti
05-01-2011, 09:35 PM
legursky would get abused as an every down, every game player.

Kemo gets abused and whiffs on blocks...

With Legursky, you would at least have a reduction in senseless personal fouls...




He definitely got you there Eddie :Clap

if you say so chief.

kemo rarely gets abused, however he is a mental midget.

MadSteel
05-01-2011, 09:37 PM
legursky would get abused as an every down, every game player.

Legursky made some bone headed plays, esp. when he wasnt straight forward blocking. If he pulled he looked lost and he and Kemo caused that Mendy fumble.

hawaiiansteel
05-01-2011, 09:58 PM
legursky would get abused as an every down, every game player.

Legursky made some bone headed plays, esp. when he wasnt straight forward blocking. If he pulled he looked lost and he and Kemo caused that Mendy fumble.


if I remember correctly David Johnson whiffed badly on his block as well and needs to share in the blame for Mendy's fumble.

MadSteel
05-01-2011, 10:12 PM
legursky would get abused as an every down, every game player.

Legursky made some bone headed plays, esp. when he wasnt straight forward blocking. If he pulled he looked lost and he and Kemo caused that Mendy fumble.


if I remember correctly David Johnson whiffed badly on his block as well and needs to share in the blame for Mendy's fumble.

Ok, lets throw DJ in the mix.

NJ-STEELER
05-01-2011, 11:04 PM
It is a concern of mine. Hopefully they pan out better then our recent mid round CBs.
I'll take deshea and Ike for sure

If not we're right back where we started with CB a top priority in future drafts

Mister Pittsburgh
05-02-2011, 06:37 AM
Funny there are still people out there that question the Steelers player acquisition skills and judgement.

:nono

steelblood
05-02-2011, 07:14 AM
Is it possible that we lost the Super Bowl because we turned the ball over and because our pass defense (including coverage and pass rush) was poor? Does it really have to be one thing that cost us the game?

MadSteel
05-02-2011, 07:33 AM
Funny there are still people out there that question the Steelers player acquisition skills and judgement.

:nono
I dont question Colbert's abilities in rd 1 or 2, but after that it is hit and miss for every team. I would question myself if it were me making those picks.

MadSteel
05-02-2011, 07:36 AM
Is it possible that we lost the Super Bowl because we turned the ball over and because our pass defense (including coverage and pass rush) was poor? Does it really have to be one thing that cost us the game?


It wasnt one thing like I stated in a later post in this thread, but we were heavily exposed in our secondary. If we lose Ike, we'll be in a lot of trouble. If we retain him, we still have major issues on one side.

ramblinjim
05-02-2011, 08:40 AM
Legursky is an excellent backup Guard / Center than can come in and do a good job for us in a pinch. You have to have guys like that on your team. You can't have five first round players on your o-line. Well, I guess you could....

As for corner, the last guy we took in round one we all refer to as Charred Scott. Ike was a fourth rounder, Deshea was a third rounder I believe so if either of those guys turn into another Ike or another Deshea, I'll be happy with that. And how many first round corners are total busts?

JUST-PLAIN-NASTY
05-02-2011, 08:41 AM
what's the average that a 3rd rounder is a "success" in the NFL.. like 30%... So, the fact is, we hit more often then average on all our picks *except the 5th round* so, I'll take the front office and trust them.

I put this up in another topic. This is something Charley Casserly did on NFL network on Wednesday, I believe, before the draft. It shows a break down of the last 10 years and the success rate of a player by round to start for their team over a 4 year term? I looked at the Steelers to see how they compared to it. The Steelers have been very fortunate in the 1st.

1st-75%
2nd-50%
3rd-30%
4th-25%
5th-20%
6th-9%
7th-5%

A 50 / 50 shot in the 2nd?????? Maybe Colbert really isn't that bad.

OK...Did the Steelers over the last 10 years. Made 4 starters from last years class to be safe. This is the Steelers success rate by round over the last 10 years.

1st-100%
2nd-50%
3rd-36%
4th-40%
5th-7%
6th-8%
7th-17%

Oviedo
05-02-2011, 08:46 AM
legursky would get abused as an every down, every game player.

Legursky made some bone headed plays, esp. when he wasnt straight forward blocking. If he pulled he looked lost and he and Kemo caused that Mendy fumble.


if I remember correctly David Johnson whiffed badly on his block as well and needs to share in the blame for Mendy's fumble.

David Johnson is a huge liability. I cannot see what the staff sees in him. He is a poor FB and a poor TE.

feltdizz
05-02-2011, 09:34 AM
what's the average that a 3rd rounder is a "success" in the NFL.. like 30%... So, the fact is, we hit more often then average on all our picks *except the 5th round* so, I'll take the front office and trust them.

Like I said, I know better than they do. But seriously, CB is a big need for us. We lost the Super Bowl because we couldnt cover Jordy Nelson!
I disagree. I think we lost the super bowl because we turned the ball over three times. once on a pick 6. I also would say that our offensive line was pi$$ poor. Though, most posters think it was their best game, it seems to me that when they showed the graphic of how many times Ben had been hit, it was a LOT higher then it should have been. Just because they didn't suck as bad as they usually do doesn't mean it was any good. Weren't two of our turnovers on THEIR side of the 50? yep. Didn't our "awesome" blocking TE completely Whiff on the his block of clay mathews on Mendy's fumble? Yep. Didn't Kemo COMPLETELY miss his block on the pick 6? YEP.

It wasnt just our DB's because those 3 to's really hurt, but our CB's were exposed heavily by the Packers and if we dont get continued pressure on the QB like our D is designed we will continue to get kicked in the teeth in 2011 on pass d. Now that I think about it, that is something that doesnt happen often when Aaron Smith is in the game and healthy. Our LB's do a lot better when that guys motor is running.

Let the Aaron Smith thing go. We were beat often when Aaron Smith was healthy on 3rd and whatever. Our D is great but the CB's have always been the primary weakness because we invest heavily in the front 7. Thank goodness there are only 2 or 3 QB's who can do this.

we get kicked in the teeth 3 times a year... and a few more times between the 20's but this whole go out and get 5 awesome CB's is ridiculous.

MadSteel
05-02-2011, 11:01 AM
what's the average that a 3rd rounder is a "success" in the NFL.. like 30%... So, the fact is, we hit more often then average on all our picks *except the 5th round* so, I'll take the front office and trust them.

Like I said, I know better than they do. But seriously, CB is a big need for us. We lost the Super Bowl because we couldnt cover Jordy Nelson!
I disagree. I think we lost the super bowl because we turned the ball over three times. once on a pick 6. I also would say that our offensive line was pi$$ poor. Though, most posters think it was their best game, it seems to me that when they showed the graphic of how many times Ben had been hit, it was a LOT higher then it should have been. Just because they didn't suck as bad as they usually do doesn't mean it was any good. Weren't two of our turnovers on THEIR side of the 50? yep. Didn't our "awesome" blocking TE completely Whiff on the his block of clay mathews on Mendy's fumble? Yep. Didn't Kemo COMPLETELY miss his block on the pick 6? YEP.

It wasnt just our DB's because those 3 to's really hurt, but our CB's were exposed heavily by the Packers and if we dont get continued pressure on the QB like our D is designed we will continue to get kicked in the teeth in 2011 on pass d. Now that I think about it, that is something that doesnt happen often when Aaron Smith is in the game and healthy. Our LB's do a lot better when that guys motor is running.

Let the Aaron Smith thing go. We were beat often when Aaron Smith was healthy on 3rd and whatever. Our D is great but the CB's have always been the primary weakness because we invest heavily in the front 7. Thank goodness there are only 2 or 3 QB's who can do this.

we get kicked in the teeth 3 times a year... and a few more times between the 20's but this whole go out and get 5 awesome CB's is ridiculous.

5 DB's is a bit much, but even if we re-sign Ike we need 1 more decent CB. Just someone who can come up and tackle or shadow a WR when needed.

grotonsteel
05-02-2011, 11:17 AM
I like the CB Steelers drafted in Rd 3 and Rd 4. Whatever i have read about them or the clips i have seen on youtube they look fast. I wanted guys with speed and who can play man coverage.

We will know about them when they start playing in NFL but for now i am excited with Rd 3 and Rd 4 picks.

sentinel33
05-02-2011, 11:34 AM
I also am quite happy with the CB's we drafted this year. Curtis Brown will be a starter on the other side of Ike. Not sayin right away, but he will be a starter. I feel confident we will fill in the other 3 CB spots from the lot of Mcfadden,Lewis,Butler and Allen. Especially with Lake giving direction.

Quite happy with this draft overall.

Once again The Steelers are top notch when it comes to the draft.

NorthCoast
05-02-2011, 01:27 PM
Last I checked the Steelers won a Superbowl with Ike Taylor and Bryant F'in McFadden in the secondary. The difference that season? A strong pass rush with the addition of Woodley. Same can happen this season. The Steelers believe the way to win consistently in the NFL is LBs combined with a strong pass rush. It is just too hard to find (and afford) two shut-down CBs in the time of free agency. It is much easier to field a D-line + LBs to pressure the passing game.
BTW, for where the Steelers typically pick you can basically call these picks as one round lower than they actually were. Picking at 1.31 is not a whole lot different than picking at 2.2 for example. just sayin.

ikestops85
05-02-2011, 01:52 PM
legursky would get abused as an every down, every game player.

Legursky made some bone headed plays, esp. when he wasnt straight forward blocking. If he pulled he looked lost and he and Kemo caused that Mendy fumble.


if I remember correctly David Johnson whiffed badly on his block as well and needs to share in the blame for Mendy's fumble.

David Johnson is a huge liability. I cannot see what the staff sees in him. He is a poor FB and a poor TE.

They've always said that DJ made the team on the strength of his blocking. He is one of the few who have knocked Harrison on his arse. He did that in his first training camp. That is why he is on the team. He has never been a viable option in the passing game.

I know I am a minority of probably one but I think Gay is going to develop into a townsend type of guy for us. I know he has gotten burned in the past but he has also had some really good games. We Steeler fans seem to give the players a few games and then pronounce them either a star or a bust. It takes some time for some players to develop and I think Gay has done that and will continue to improve. He is much better than McFadden at shadowing receivers and going for the ball. I think his biggest drawback is when he gets beat once he loses confidence. Hopefully Carnell can fix that.

birtikidis
05-02-2011, 04:58 PM
what's the average that a 3rd rounder is a "success" in the NFL.. like 30%... So, the fact is, we hit more often then average on all our picks *except the 5th round* so, I'll take the front office and trust them.

I put this up in another topic. This is something Charley Casserly did on NFL network on Wednesday, I believe, before the draft. It shows a break down of the last 10 years and the success rate of a player by round to start for their team over a 4 year term? I looked at the Steelers to see how they compared to it. The Steelers have been very fortunate in the 1st.

1st-75%
2nd-50%
3rd-30%
4th-25%
5th-20%
6th-9%
7th-5%

A 50 / 50 shot in the 2nd?????? Maybe Colbert really isn't that bad.

OK...Did the Steelers over the last 10 years. Made 4 starters from last years class to be safe. This is the Steelers success rate by round over the last 10 years.

1st-100%
2nd-50%
3rd-36%
4th-40%
5th-7%
6th-8%
7th-17%
I thought you were the one that posted it, couldn't remember though.

feltdizz
05-02-2011, 05:23 PM
I give DJ a pass on the Mend fumble. When the D knows what you are rinning the chances of having success on a running olay are slim. Especially when you have Kevin Greene in your ear telling you to get the damn right before play resumes. LOL.

As far as Gay is concerned, I was a fan and thought he would be a little better then he is. Looking at our secondary the last 3 to 4 years I can't see the FO giving up on him. He is a little slow but if Deshea and Tyrone could stick around I think Gay is safe. Its so damn hard for our CB's to grasp this D why would we let him go?

Chadman
05-03-2011, 12:34 AM
Gay is a decent tackler & plays coverage ok when everything is in front of him.

Could he be a FS in disguise?