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SteelTorch
04-29-2011, 02:34 PM
Unless we pick someone good in the second round, but we let some great picks slip by again. We didn't even go for a CB.

I hate to sound like a broken record but this has gone on for waaaaay too long. Pouncey alone isn't going to solve our problems, especially when we still have turds like Kemo holding the line. :x

Eddie Spaghetti
04-29-2011, 02:38 PM
i have no problem with the pick. i think heyward represented the best value left on the board.

they will address the OL tonight possibly, but the situation there is not as dire a some believe IMO.

hawaiiansteel
04-29-2011, 02:39 PM
i have no problem with the pick. i think heyward represented the best value left on the board.

they will address the OL tonight possibly, but the situation there is not as dire a some believe IMO.


$$$$

WoodleyofTroy
04-29-2011, 02:42 PM
If the Steelers approached the draft with the mindset of need over value, we'd have Shawn Andrews and Ben Roethlisberger would be in Buffalo.

I think I like their way better than yours.

grotonsteel
04-29-2011, 02:51 PM
Unless we pick someone good in the second round, but we let some great picks slip by again. We didn't even go for a CB.

I hate to sound like a broken record but this has gone on for waaaaay too long. Pouncey alone isn't going to solve our problems, especially when we still have turds like Kemo holding the line. :x


:Agree

Sherrod was a better player and better value at 1.31

Heyward is a luxury pick. He is not going to start for atleast 2-3 years unless he is going to play a NT.

I am not all excited with Heyward...way too inconsistent in college. Hopefully i am wrong.

birtikidis
04-29-2011, 02:55 PM
i have no problem with the pick. i think heyward represented the best value left on the board.

they will address the OL tonight possibly, but the situation there is not as dire a some believe IMO.
I think everyone is gung ho for a Tackle when that's not the area of need. We need a guard. the only OL i would have taken in the first is Pouncey. Hopefully we can get Hudson or Cannon OR a cb like dowling. I don't see us getting dowling so i think guard is where we go. then maybe we take Burton in the 3rd.

papillon
04-29-2011, 02:55 PM
i have no problem with the pick. i think heyward represented the best value left on the board.

they will address the OL tonight possibly, but the situation there is not as dire a some believe IMO.

:Agree

The Steelers made it to the SB with a makeshift line, a great quarterback, one deep threat, a very good running back and a great defense. The defense just got younger with a player that doesn't have to see the field immediately and he will be able to learn from two of the best 3-4 DEs playing the game.

The Steelers could surround Ben with Anthony Munoz, John Hannah, Dermontti Dawson, Mike Webster (guard) and Art Shell and he would still be sacked 30 plus times in a season. It's his style of play and it isn't changing.

Heyward if he pans out adds youth to an aging defensive line and the defensive line is what allows the LBs to be what they are and that's great.

Pappy

pittpete
04-29-2011, 03:01 PM
but the situation there is not as dire a some believe IMO.


Heyward is a luxury pick. He is not going to start for atleast 2-3 years unless he is going to play a NT

Nose Tackle?

hawaiiansteel
04-29-2011, 03:04 PM
[quote]but the situation there is not as dire a some believe IMO.


Heyward is a luxury pick. He is not going to start for atleast 2-3 years unless he is going to play a NT

Nose Tackle?[/quote:2yk84i46]


I think Ziggy would move to NT before Heyward would.

insanesteelersfan
04-29-2011, 03:07 PM
Unless we pick someone good in the second round, but we let some great picks slip by again. We didn't even go for a CB.

I hate to sound like a broken record but this has gone on for waaaaay too long. Pouncey alone isn't going to solve our problems, especially when we still have turds like Kemo holding the line. :x


:Agree

Sherrod was a better player and better value at 1.31

Heyward is a luxury pick. He is not going to start for atleast 2-3 years unless he is going to play a NT.

I am not all excited with Heyward...way too inconsistent in college. Hopefully i am wrong.



Okay first off, Sherrod was NOT a higher ranked prospect. I can site CNN/SI,,,Cbssportsline, Nfl draft countdown, nfldraft scout, ect. ALL have Heyward ranked higher. And as for Ignoring the O-Line again,,,,says who ? Since when does it mean if you take a O-Linemen in the 1st round that you are guaranteed success ? I mean we have won 2 SB games with this Line the past 5 years. And yes we lost to Green Bay, but that was because we had guys like Max Starks and Willie Colon out...two players who were NOT 1st round Linemen...right ? No one here is saying we don't need to take a couple of prospects, a guard, and a Tackle who can play RT or G. But you seem to think that a 1st round OL is a Guarantee....how many examples would you like me to name of OL taken in round 1 who were complete TRASH! ? Cause I can name about 50. And that's just going back in the last 10 drafts.


I would have been okay with whoever Colbert took cause I think he has more then earned our respect. Especially with the 1st rounders. And I would have LOVED Gabe Carimi at 31, even over Heyward. But alas, he was gone. And after him, all the rest of the O-Line guys were not as good as Heyward. Which BTW WAS a need for this team. Brent Keisel has a year left at best! And is constantly injured. And Aaron Smith might not even make our squad this season.


So please, get off your High horse. D.Sherrod was NOT higher rated then Heyward by the majority of QUALITY Draft sites.

pfelix73
04-29-2011, 03:11 PM
:Agree

Steelerphile
04-29-2011, 03:13 PM
i have no problem with the pick. i think heyward represented the best value left on the board.

they will address the OL tonight possibly, but the situation there is not as dire a some believe IMO.

:Agree

The Steelers made it to the SB with a makeshift line, a great quarterback, one deep threat, a very good running back and a great defense. The defense just got younger with a player that doesn't have to see the field immediately and he will be able to learn from two of the best 3-4 DEs playing the game.

The Steelers could surround Ben with Anthony Munoz, John Hannah, Dermontti Dawson, Mike Webster (guard) and Art Shell and he would still be sacked 30 plus times in a season. It's his style of play and it isn't changing.

Heyward if he pans out adds youth to an aging defensive line and the defensive line is what allows the LBs to be what they are and that's great.

Pappy

Good points. It is the same every year. Regardless of who they take the amateur GMs are angry. The Steelers can't address all the positions in one round, and no matter who there is on the OL, Roethlisberger will hold the ball, run around and get sacked and the OL tackle Sherrod wouldn't have changed that a bit.

They still have some developmental OL guys, but they will draft somebody else to add to the stew.

If they didn't take DL, there are critics who would have chirped they can't keep letting that position go, with the aging stars there. and so it goes. I don't think I am a draftnik like some appear to be but my impression of Heyward is that he will be a very good addition. Defense and a pass rush is still the Steelers signature.

StarSpangledSteeler
04-29-2011, 03:15 PM
Here's my take...

What positions exactly on the OL are you talking about?

Guard? With Pouncey and Watkins gone, what guard could you possibly take at 1.31 that had good value there? I don't see anybody. We'd end up doing exactly what Seattle did, reaching for a need, drafting a second round talent. We can fix the guard problem just as easily in round two as we could've in round one.

Right tackle? I don't love the idea of drafting a "right" tackle in the first round. That is usually not good value. There are some very promising right tackle prospects that will be available in round three (and certainly in round two) that are actually better measurements, better pure strength, and in a couple of cases better technique/balance, than two of those first rounders. We can fix that problem in round two with an only slightly less talented player but fairly close.

Left Tackle? This is where the problem is for me. Can Sherrod play left tackle in the NFL? Better yet, can he be a dominate force at left tackle in the NFL? I thought the answer was yes. Apparently the Steelers F.O. thought the answer was no. Beyond Sherrod there was nobody else you could justify drafting at 1.31 that you expect to dominate at LT.

The problem is, now you're almost forced to go CB in the 2nd then OL in the 3rd (unless a great OL slips to 2.31). And it will be very difficult to justify trading up, because the way Colbert drafts, he really needs 2 OL prospects and 2 CB prospects, to end up with one starter/contributer at either position.

insanesteelersfan
04-29-2011, 03:16 PM
Just one example. I can post many many more.



http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/2011 ... r-2011.cfm (http://www.fftoolbox.com/nfl_draft/2011/top-nfl-prospects-for-2011.cfm)


See who they have ranked 24, and see who they have ranked in the 30's.


Thanks for playing :Boobs

grotonsteel
04-29-2011, 03:25 PM
Unless we pick someone good in the second round, but we let some great picks slip by again. We didn't even go for a CB.

I hate to sound like a broken record but this has gone on for waaaaay too long. Pouncey alone isn't going to solve our problems, especially when we still have turds like Kemo holding the line. :x


:Agree

Sherrod was a better player and better value at 1.31

Heyward is a luxury pick. He is not going to start for atleast 2-3 years unless he is going to play a NT.

I am not all excited with Heyward...way too inconsistent in college. Hopefully i am wrong.



Okay first off, Sherrod was NOT a higher ranked prospect. I can site CNN/SI,,,Cbssportsline, Nfl draft countdown, nfldraft scout, ect. ALL have Heyward ranked higher. And as for Ignoring the O-Line again,,,,says who ? Since when does it mean if you take a O-Linemen in the 1st round that you are guaranteed success ? I mean we have won 2 SB games with this Line the past 5 years. And yes we lost to Green Bay, but that was because we had guys like Max Starks and Willie Colon out...two players who were NOT 1st round Linemen...right ? No one here is saying we don't need to take a couple of prospects, a guard, and a Tackle who can play RT or G. But you seem to think that a 1st round OL is a Guarantee....how many examples would you like me to name of OL taken in round 1 who were complete TRASH! ? Cause I can name about 50. And that's just going back in the last 10 drafts.


I would have been okay with whoever Colbert took cause I think he has more then earned our respect. Especially with the 1st rounders. And I would have LOVED Gabe Carimi at 31, even over Heyward. But alas, he was gone. And after him, all the rest of the O-Line guys were not as good as Heyward. Which BTW WAS a need for this team. Brent Keisel has a year left at best! And is constantly injured. And Aaron Smith might not even make our squad this season.


So please, get off your High horse. D.Sherrod was NOT higher rated then Heyward by the majority of QUALITY Draft sites.


Brett Kiesel has a year left ??? Its news to me. Brett Kiesel went to pro bowl last season and i would go on say that he was the best defensive player on Steelers team. I don't think Kiesel is going anywhere for 2-3 years unless his contract is up.

Where did you get that i am saying if you draft a O-lineman in 1st Rd its a guarentee??
I am not asking to draft O-lineman for sake of drafting an O-lineman in 1st Rd. But if you can get a good LT at 31 you draft him unless there is a player who is far better. Sorry but i value a a good LT who has a potential to play that position for next 10 years more than a D-lineman.

You have no issues drafting a RT at 31 but you have problem drafting a pass blocking LT??? :roll:

Again if Heyward turns all pro its well and good. I will be supporting him on the field since he is a Steelers.

Oviedo
04-29-2011, 03:40 PM
i have no problem with the pick. i think heyward represented the best value left on the board.

they will address the OL tonight possibly, but the situation there is not as dire a some believe IMO.

The front office and coaches have never been in the panic mode about the OL that the fans have. Can it get better? Yes, just like every position on the team. This is the salary cap era and some units are going to be lower priority than others. It has been clear for several years that is the OL for us. Besides our "horrible" offensive linemen have been in more Super Bowls the last six years than any team in the NFL. The front office and coaches must be doing something right.

Going forward I have to think CB and some offensive playmakers will again trump the OL over the next couple of picks. They need Tackles and you aren't getting starters so you might as well get developmental players in Rounds 3-5.

Eddie--did we just agree on something again? I'm getting concerned. :wink:

Eddie Spaghetti
04-29-2011, 03:49 PM
good points ovi. i know we have disagreed violently on foster, but the OL as a whole was ok last year and actually improved as the season went along.

i know you like kugs, as do i. give him another year to work with these guys and i think they will be even better. CB is a much greater need.

haites must be freezing over right now. :Cheers

birtikidis
04-29-2011, 03:55 PM
I like Foster, he should be the heir apparent to Flo.
I really hope we can get a guard like Hudson now.
and it's Hades. sorry, pet peeve.

insanesteelersfan
04-29-2011, 03:57 PM
If we can get a GOOD LT in the draft, we have to do it ?...is that what you said ? Well, what do you call Max Starks ? He has 2 SB rings to his credit. How many does Sherrod have ? :lol: And Sherrod'd scouting report says he does not slide well, and does not have great strength to beat the swim move by elite NFL players. And he's an average run blocker. So where are you getting this,,,Sherrod is a FOR SURE 10 + year starting LT stuff ? :roll:

Mister Pittsburgh
04-29-2011, 04:08 PM
Unless we pick someone good in the second round, but we let some great picks slip by again. We didn't even go for a CB.

I hate to sound like a broken record but this has gone on for waaaaay too long. Pouncey alone isn't going to solve our problems, especially when we still have turds like Kemo holding the line. :x


:Agree

Sherrod was a better player and better value at 1.31

Heyward is a luxury pick. He is not going to start for atleast 2-3 years unless he is going to play a NT.

I am not all excited with Heyward...way too inconsistent in college. Hopefully i am wrong.



Okay first off, Sherrod was NOT a higher ranked prospect. I can site CNN/SI,,,Cbssportsline, Nfl draft countdown, nfldraft scout, ect. ALL have Heyward ranked higher. And as for Ignoring the O-Line again,,,,says who ? Since when does it mean if you take a O-Linemen in the 1st round that you are guaranteed success ? I mean we have won 2 SB games with this Line the past 5 years. And yes we lost to Green Bay, but that was because we had guys like Max Starks and Willie Colon out...two players who were NOT 1st round Linemen...right ? No one here is saying we don't need to take a couple of prospects, a guard, and a Tackle who can play RT or G. But you seem to think that a 1st round OL is a Guarantee....how many examples would you like me to name of OL taken in round 1 who were complete TRASH! ? Cause I can name about 50. And that's just going back in the last 10 drafts.


I would have been okay with whoever Colbert took cause I think he has more then earned our respect. Especially with the 1st rounders. And I would have LOVED Gabe Carimi at 31, even over Heyward. But alas, he was gone. And after him, all the rest of the O-Line guys were not as good as Heyward. Which BTW WAS a need for this team. Brent Keisel has a year left at best! And is constantly injured. And Aaron Smith might not even make our squad this season.


So please, get off your High horse. D.Sherrod was NOT higher rated then Heyward by the majority of QUALITY Draft sites.


You had me until you said 'Brent Keisel'

insanesteelersfan
04-29-2011, 04:16 PM
Unless we pick someone good in the second round, but we let some great picks slip by again. We didn't even go for a CB.

I hate to sound like a broken record but this has gone on for waaaaay too long. Pouncey alone isn't going to solve our problems, especially when we still have turds like Kemo holding the line. :x


:Agree

Sherrod was a better player and better value at 1
Heyward is a luxury pick. He is not going to start for atleast 2-3 years unless he is going to play a NT.

I am not all excited with Heyward...way too inconsistent in college. Hopefully i am wrong.



Okay first off, Sherrod was NOT a higher ranked prospect. I can site CNN/SI,,,Cbssportsline, Nfl draft countdown, nfldraft scout, ect. ALL have Heyward ranked higher. And as for Ignoring the O-Line again,,,,says who ? Since when does it mean if you take a O-Linemen in the 1st round that you are guaranteed success ? I mean we have won 2 SB games with this Line the past 5 years. And yes we lost to Green Bay, but that was because we had guys like Max Starks and Willie Colon out...two players who were NOT 1st round Linemen...right ? No one here is saying we don't need to take a couple of prospects, a guard, and a Tackle who can play RT or G. But you seem to think that a 1st round OL is a Guarantee....how many examples would you like me to name of OL taken in round 1 who were complete TRASH! ? Cause I can name about 50. And that's just going back in the last 10 drafts.


I would have been okay with whoever Colbert took cause I think he has more then earned our respect. Especially with the 1st rounders. And I would have LOVED Gabe Carimi at 31, even over Heyward. But alas, he was gone. And after him, all the rest of the O-Line guys were not as good as Heyward. Which BTW WAS a need for this team. Brent Keisel has a year left at best! And is constantly injured. And Aaron Smith might not even make our squad this season.


So please, get off your High horse. D.Sherrod was NOT higher rated then Heyward by the majority of QUALITY Draft sites.


You had me until you said 'Brent Keisel'



Why ? Keisel is getting up there. He has had nagging injuries throughout his career. No, I don't want him replaced. Not right away. But remember, a team is only as successful as their BACK-UPS! Heyward will be a good back-up, and eventual starter, maybe as easrly as 2012.

Shawn
04-29-2011, 04:19 PM
I think both Sherrod and Heyward are going to be special players.

I didn't think Sherrod would make it to us, but the run on QBs pushed him into our laps. I bet the Steelers were torn picking between Sherrod and Heyward. But, at the end of the day, the Steelers are going to pick D over O. And Heyward, is a guy when the light is on, can't be stopped by one guy. He is not only stout against the run, but presents a significant push into the pocket.

insanesteelersfan
04-29-2011, 04:22 PM
I think both Sherrod and Heyward are going to be special players.

I didn't think Sherrod would make it to us, but the run on QBs pushed him into our laps. I bet the Steelers were torn picking between Sherrod and Heyward. But, at the end of the day, the Steelers are going to pick D over O. And Heyward, is a guy when the light is on, can't be stopped by one guy. He is not only stout against the run, but presents a significant push into the pocket.





Torn ?....Yeah, they were SO TORN that after they announced the Jets selection, the Steelers had their card turned into the Commish in 6 seconds they were SO TORN! :lol:

WoodleyofTroy
04-29-2011, 04:30 PM
I think both Sherrod and Heyward are going to be special players.

I didn't think Sherrod would make it to us, but the run on QBs pushed him into our laps. I bet the Steelers were torn picking between Sherrod and Heyward. But, at the end of the day, the Steelers are going to pick D over O. And Heyward, is a guy when the light is on, can't be stopped by one guy. He is not only stout against the run, but presents a significant push into the pocket.





Torn ?....Yeah, they were SO TORN that after they announced the Jets selection, the Steelers had their card turned into the Commish in 6 seconds they were SO TORN! :lol:

Agreed. I doubt Sherrod would have been the pick if Heyward were off the board.

BURGH86STEEL
04-29-2011, 04:37 PM
The Oline was not ignored over the years. Since 2004, they drafted 13 Olinemen (does not include UDFA). I believe that's more then any other position.

I can't fault the organization for only drafting one Olineman in the first round since 2004. They were rarely in a position to draft any of the top rated Olinemen during that time period. Winning has it's draw backs.

I am sure tough decisions were made. In 2005, Logan Mankins or Heath Miller? 2006, Santonio Holmes or Nick Mangold? I don't believe there were any Olinemen to compete with Timmons in the 2007 draft. Ben Grubbs was the only Olineman selected after Timmons.

I don't believe any fans would change anything based on the Steelers recent opportunities to play in SB's. Debates can be had about missing on some Olinemen later in the draft. Most late draft picks don't appear to last very long in the league.

Sugar
04-29-2011, 04:50 PM
You can't please everybody. Thankfully, they pleased me this year! :D

I would have been unhappy if they had picked an O-lineman yesterday.

NJ-STEELER
04-29-2011, 04:59 PM
The Oline was not ignored over the years. Since 2004, they drafted 13 Olinemen (does not include UDFA). I believe that's more then any other position.

I can't fault the organization for only drafting one Olineman in the first round since 2004. They were rarely in a position to draft any of the top rated Olinemen during that time period. Winning has it's draw backs.

I am sure tough decisions were made. In 2005, Logan Mankins or Heath Miller? 2006, Santonio Holmes or Nick Mangold? I don't believe there were any Olinemen to compete with Timmons in the 2007 draft. Ben Grubbs was the only Olineman selected after Timmons.

I don't believe any fans would change anything based on the Steelers recent opportunities to play in SB's. Debates can be had about missing on some Olinemen later in the draft. Most late draft picks don't appear to last very long in the league.

Aside from Pouncey the OL has been ignored in the 1st 2 rounds of the draft

And the unit has 5 starters. More theny other unit on the team.

aggiebones
04-29-2011, 05:41 PM
I too was intrigued by sherrod but equally by heywood. I wanted bulaga last year but pouncey eased my concerns.
Before this draft I begged for a DL and move up halfway into the second to get hudson. Or even trade down to get hudson. But no teams were trading up. So I still hope for a shot at hudson. Still does get our RT however.

But I'm ok with this OL:
3Ts of starks adams colon and jscott
3Gs of kemo hudson foster and legs
Plus Pouncey.

They can also find a guard floating in FA.
I have a hard time complaining about their personnel or the moves made at draft time.

grotonsteel
04-29-2011, 05:45 PM
If we can get a GOOD LT in the draft, we have to do it ?...is that what you said ? Well, what do you call Max Starks ? He has 2 SB rings to his credit. How many does Sherrod have ? :lol: And Sherrod'd scouting report says he does not slide well, and does not have great strength to beat the swim move by elite NFL players. And he's an average run blocker. So where are you getting this,,,Sherrod is a FOR SURE 10 + year starting LT stuff ? :roll:

I think reading comprehension is not your strong suit.

I said potential to be a 10 year starter. You can never ever be SURE of any draft picks until they play in NFL. Also have you seen Sherrod play or you decide everything based on few scouting reports which suits your argument??

Why are you bringing Max Starks and his super bowl rings into this? Do you think Max Starks is a pro bowl player and no one can upgrade that position? Max Starks is an above average LT who will become a FA after 2012.

Steelgal
04-29-2011, 05:46 PM
I know the rules for 2011 aren't set yet, but are there any OT/OGs available through free agency the Steelers might be interested in? Also if Colon becomes a RFA, since Flozell is coming back, how would they tender him or have they already?

Snatch98
04-29-2011, 06:00 PM
I'm just wondering when people will start trusting the front office. How many first round draft picks have the Steelers missed on in the last decade? And didn't we make it to the Super Bowl last season with our offensive line? And win one against the Cards with a supposedly weak o-line? They drafted BPA and o-line at pick 31 was not BPA. A more effective pass rush immediately helps our corners and the o-line with all the injuries played pretty damn well last season.

In Colbert I trust.

NJ-STEELER
04-29-2011, 06:54 PM
i have no problem with the pick. i think heyward represented the best value left on the board.

they will address the OL tonight possibly, but the situation there is not as dire a some believe IMO.



The Steelers could surround Ben with Anthony Munoz, John Hannah, Dermontti Dawson, Mike Webster (guard) and Art Shell and he would still be sacked 30 plus times in a season. It's his style of play and it isn't changing.

y

by the same token

you can put bruce smith and reggie white at DE and all an OL has to do is stand in front of them for the 1 second it takes a receiver to get open vs. our secondary

what does all the pressure in the world do when receivers are running free right after the snap.

havent we led the league in sacks or damn close to it the last several years

feltdizz
04-29-2011, 07:31 PM
[quote="Eddie Spaghetti":3lb8s7pt]i have no problem with the pick. i think heyward represented the best value left on the board.

they will address the OL tonight possibly, but the situation there is not as dire a some believe IMO.



The Steelers could surround Ben with Anthony Munoz, John Hannah, Dermontti Dawson, Mike Webster (guard) and Art Shell and he would still be sacked 30 plus times in a season. It's his style of play and it isn't changing.

y

by the same token

you can put bruce smith and reggie white at DE and all an OL has to do is stand in front of them for the 1 second it takes a receiver to get open vs. our secondary

what does all the pressure in the world do when receivers are running free right after the snap.

havent we led the league in sacks or damn close to it the last several years[/quote:3lb8s7pt]


yep... and we have been to 3 SB's in 6 years. WTF do you guys want? We lost to a really good GB team, had 3 TO's and Ben had a sub par game.

NJ-STEELER
04-29-2011, 07:39 PM
umm,

thats why i'm trying to address some of the known weaknesses on the team.

to get back to and win the superbowl


offense and OL struggled all year as well as the secondary vs. passing offenses.

defense front 7 was pretty much dominant all of last year

feltdizz
04-29-2011, 07:47 PM
umm,

thats why i'm trying to address some of the known weaknesses on the team.

to get back to and win the superbowl


offense and OL struggled all year as well as the secondary vs. passing offenses.

defense front 7 was pretty much dominant all of last year

Keisel is getting old and Smith is all but done.

OL didn't struggle all year... we refused to insert a quick hitting pass attack until after the fact. No OL can block 6 guys with 5 men...

we struggled vs. the Pats and the Packers and will continue to struggle against them because they are really good teams.

SteelTorch
04-29-2011, 08:15 PM
LOL, and here I wasn't expecting many replies. Anyway, very interesting points made by both sides of the debate. However, 2 things:

1. Please for the love of God stop saying "we made it to the SB w/ a subpar line!!!1!" We lost one of them, and part of that was because of the subpar line. And it's more than just pass-blocking. Fans of the running game aren't going to see a lot out of Mendenhall unless we have a line that can actually open lanes.

2. I'll admit I'm no professional scout. Yes, Colbert has given us some great picks. However, these are the same guys who have brought us turds like Matt Spaeth, Limas Sweed, and (gasp) Bruce Davis! All taken within the first three rounds, by the way. As a matter of fact, aside from Mendy, the entire 08 draft was pretty much a waste. So yes, these guys are far from infallible.

I'm still convinced that this was a luxury pick (as others have pointed out). Unless we fix this OL problem, we're going to have another season of a struggling offense. You can believe that.

feltdizz
04-29-2011, 08:28 PM
LOL, and here I wasn't expecting many replies. Anyway, very interesting points made by both sides of the debate. However, 2 things:

1. Please for the love of God stop saying "we made it to the SB w/ a subpar line!!!1!" We lost one of them, and part of that was because of the subpar line. And it's more than just pass-blocking. Fans of the running game aren't going to see a lot out of Mendenhall unless we have a line that can actually open lanes.

2. I'll admit I'm no professional scout. Yes, Colbert has given us some great picks. However, these are the same guys who have brought us turds like Matt Spaeth, Limas Sweed, and (gasp) Bruce Davis! All taken within the first three rounds, by the way. As a matter of fact, aside from Mendy, the entire 08 draft was pretty much a waste. So yes, these guys are far from infallible.

I'm still convinced that this was a luxury pick (as others have pointed out). Unless we fix this OL problem, we're going to have another season of a struggling offense. You can believe that.

I have no problem with making it to a SB and losing because of the OL when it lost Pouncey, Colon and Starks.

Sweed could do everything but catch open TD's on game day. Who knew that would happen?

No one hits on all their drafts picks every year...

SteelTorch
04-29-2011, 08:36 PM
UPDATE: it appears Steelers have selected an OT in the second round - Marcus Gilbert from Florida! I'll admit I don't know much about this pick. Consensus?

steelernation77
04-29-2011, 08:39 PM
Good pick. Big, athletic OT with two years starting experience. Can play either side.

feltdizz
04-29-2011, 08:45 PM
Hold up... how can you bash the FO and then ask for a consensus when they draft OL?

RuthlessBurgher
04-29-2011, 08:46 PM
A first round center last year and a second round tackle this year is hardly ignoring the O-line.

feltdizz
04-29-2011, 08:55 PM
A first round center last year and a second round tackle this year is hardly ignoring the O-line.


and he played with Pouncey at Florida

He didn't share PJ's with Pouncey and doesn't have the twin internals but he played all the positions besides C at Florida. Talk about a great pick.

NJ-STEELER
04-29-2011, 09:52 PM
A first round center last year and a second round tackle this year is hardly ignoring the O-line.


and he played with Pouncey at Florida

.

good friends i read.

more ammo for when mike becomes a free agent :stirpot

BrownSteel
04-29-2011, 10:18 PM
Post of the year!!! Having a pick and getting a good pick for value are two different things. We are always in a position that we are drafting the lower end guys for OT. We could draft a LT from UNLV but he wouldn't provide the value we need.








The Oline was not ignored over the years. Since 2004, they drafted 13 Olinemen (does not include UDFA). I believe that's more then any other position.

I can't fault the organization for only drafting one Olineman in the first round since 2004. They were rarely in a position to draft any of the top rated Olinemen during that time period. Winning has it's draw backs.

I am sure tough decisions were made. In 2005, Logan Mankins or Heath Miller? 2006, Santonio Holmes or Nick Mangold? I don't believe there were any Olinemen to compete with Timmons in the 2007 draft. Ben Grubbs was the only Olineman selected after Timmons.

I don't believe any fans would change anything based on the Steelers recent opportunities to play in SB's. Debates can be had about missing on some Olinemen later in the draft. Most late draft picks don't appear to last very long in the league.

grotonsteel
04-29-2011, 10:27 PM
[quote="Eddie Spaghetti":3d6olkfn]i have no problem with the pick. i think heyward represented the best value left on the board.

they will address the OL tonight possibly, but the situation there is not as dire a some believe IMO.



The Steelers could surround Ben with Anthony Munoz, John Hannah, Dermontti Dawson, Mike Webster (guard) and Art Shell and he would still be sacked 30 plus times in a season. It's his style of play and it isn't changing.

y

by the same token

you can put bruce smith and reggie white at DE and all an OL has to do is stand in front of them for the 1 second it takes a receiver to get open vs. our secondary

what does all the pressure in the world do when receivers are running free right after the snap.

havent we led the league in sacks or damn close to it the last several years


yep... and we have been to 3 SB's in 6 years. WTF do you guys want? We lost to a really good GB team, had 3 TO's and Ben had a sub par game.[/quote:3d6olkfn]


And what did the Defense do in the Super Bowl apart from getting blown away by Aaron Rodgers??

feltdizz
04-29-2011, 11:54 PM
The D stopped GB and put the O in a position to win before Mend fumbled. I know you have a hard time giving anyone on the Steelers credit but with 3 TO's I find it hard to fault the D for the SB loss. GB was hot and our O was sloppy.

Give the other team some credit.

Chadman
04-30-2011, 09:16 AM
One day...maybe not THIS day, but one day...Steelers fans will realise the Steelers draft for future need, not quick fix.

Heyward is a great pick BECAUSE he wasn't a reach, wasn't grabbed simply because "Holy Hell Ben gets sacked a lot!".

The dominant DL some of you talk about is also THE OLDEST DL GROUP IN THE NFL. It might have been dominant yesterday. Maybe even today. But age catches up- and when it does...well, you remember what happened to All Universe Center Dermontti Dawson when his body gave up, right? Couldn't stay on the field...kept hurting different parts of his body (both hammys were the killers). his downfall wasn't a decline. It was a sudden drop off the face of the Earth. You remember him, because he was Dawson.

Anyone remember what happened when Joel Steed got old & injury prone? Teams ran all over the Steelers for 2 years- the year Steed 'got old' and the year they put Kimo in at NT to plug the gap which he simply didn't fit. Kimo was always a 3-4 DE, not a NT. Then the Steelers did something smart- drafted a NT called Casey Hampton. And the run defense was dominant again.

Many say that the Steelers can't stop the pass because of bad CB's.

Imagine what would happen if they couldn't stop the run & the pass?

Steed was 33 from memory. Dawson 33 too? Or 34? Can't remember.

Aaron Smith is 35 going on 36. Hoke's the same. Hampton is 34. Keisel 33.

How long before one of these guys blows a hammy? Or...hurts their shoulders/biceps etc 2 years in a row?

Heyward was a great pick- because he wasn't a reach.

But he sure as s&%t filled a need.

Chadman
04-30-2011, 09:20 AM
As for the OL- With Marcus Gilbert now on board, and with a strong possibility of last years rules being re-applied this year- the Steelers have added a rookie OT, a starting LT & starting RT to the OL that made it's way to the SB last season.

This 'terrible' OL spent a majority of the year without Starks & Colon- both are back. If the OL was good enough for a SB appearence without them, how good will it be with them?

grotonsteel
04-30-2011, 09:26 AM
The D stopped GB and put the O in a position to win before Mend fumbled. I know you have a hard time giving anyone on the Steelers credit but with 3 TO's I find it hard to fault the D for the SB loss. GB was hot and our O was sloppy.

Give the other team some credit.

Blame entire team for defeat and not just the offense was my point. Steelers D did not make any flash plays or did not stop green Bay. If you are happy with that performance more power to you.

Green Bay was far better team in all departments but Steelers D did not stop Green Bay Offense. When your team is built on Defense and if i am not mistaken majority of the salary cap is devoted to Defense you expect more from Steelers D. Well no point arguing with you since you were slobbering on Colts offense for scoring 16 points against Jets in playoffs :roll:

Steelgal
04-30-2011, 10:17 AM
One day...maybe not THIS day, but one day...Steelers fans will realise the Steelers draft for future need, not quick fix.

$$$$$$

The teams that draft the first few rounds for need are usually the teams that don't compete well year in and year out. Look at the Pats* QB pick yesterday.... Who knows what they're motivation was (back-up, future 3-4 year starter, or groom him to trade him down the road), but it definately was NOT a need of there's. They still need a pass rusher......

feltdizz
04-30-2011, 10:29 AM
The D stopped GB and put the O in a position to win before Mend fumbled. I know you have a hard time giving anyone on the Steelers credit but with 3 TO's I find it hard to fault the D for the SB loss. GB was hot and our O was sloppy.

Give the other team some credit.

Blame entire team for defeat and not just the offense was my point. Steelers D did not make any flash plays or did not stop green Bay. If you are happy with that performance more power to you.

Green Bay was far better team in all departments but Steelers D did not stop Green Bay Offense. When your team is built on Defense and if i am not mistaken majority of the salary cap is devoted to Defense you expect more from Steelers D. Well no point arguing with you since you were slobbering on Colts offense for scoring 16 points against Jets in playoffs :roll:

You sound sensitive and thin skinned. Who slobbered over the Colts? Not me... but if an offense gets the lead with 2 minutes left, regardless of total points, it's hard to fault the O for losing. How many points did our O put up on the Jets?

We had 3 TO's and one resulted in 7 points... The D didn't make any splash plays but the O damn sure did, too bad it was for the other team.

You need a cork for all this whining!

papillon
04-30-2011, 10:33 AM
One day...maybe not THIS day, but one day...Steelers fans will realise the Steelers draft for future need, not quick fix.

Heyward is a great pick BECAUSE he wasn't a reach, wasn't grabbed simply because "Holy Hell Ben gets sacked a lot!".

The dominant DL some of you talk about is also THE OLDEST DL GROUP IN THE NFL. It might have been dominant yesterday. Maybe even today. But age catches up- and when it does...well, you remember what happened to All Universe Center Dermontti Dawson when his body gave up, right? Couldn't stay on the field...kept hurting different parts of his body (both hammys were the killers). his downfall wasn't a decline. It was a sudden drop off the face of the Earth. You remember him, because he was Dawson.

Anyone remember what happened when Joel Steed got old & injury prone? Teams ran all over the Steelers for 2 years- the year Steed 'got old' and the year they put Kimo in at NT to plug the gap which he simply didn't fit. Kimo was always a 3-4 DE, not a NT. Then the Steelers did something smart- drafted a NT called Casey Hampton. And the run defense was dominant again.

Many say that the Steelers can't stop the pass because of bad CB's.

Imagine what would happen if they couldn't stop the run & the pass?

Steed was 33 from memory. Dawson 33 too? Or 34? Can't remember.

Aaron Smith is 35 going on 36. Hoke's the same. Hampton is 34. Keisel 33.

How long before one of these guys blows a hammy? Or...hurts their shoulders/biceps etc 2 years in a row?

Heyward was a great pick- because he wasn't a reach.

But he sure as s&%t filled a need.

Logic in excess, outstanding Chadman. :Bow

:Beer

Pappy

feltdizz
04-30-2011, 10:46 AM
I agree...

It's hard to get some fans to be realistic about a teams needs vs value on the board. Are we happy with below standard performances in a game or 2? No... but it's not a sprint it's a marathon. A 3 to 5 year marathon when you draft... some fans will never be happy.

blame Madden and microwaves :lol:

grotonsteel
04-30-2011, 11:49 AM
The D stopped GB and put the O in a position to win before Mend fumbled. I know you have a hard time giving anyone on the Steelers credit but with 3 TO's I find it hard to fault the D for the SB loss. GB was hot and our O was sloppy.

Give the other team some credit.

Blame entire team for defeat and not just the offense was my point. Steelers D did not make any flash plays or did not stop green Bay. If you are happy with that performance more power to you.

Green Bay was far better team in all departments but Steelers D did not stop Green Bay Offense. When your team is built on Defense and if i am not mistaken majority of the salary cap is devoted to Defense you expect more from Steelers D. Well no point arguing with you since you were slobbering on Colts offense for scoring 16 points against Jets in playoffs :roll:

How many points did our O put up on the Jets?



More than your beloved Peyton Manning ever did. And why just one game. Compare all the points Colts have scored in the playoffs.

Colts is an offensive driven team. Major investment on the offensive end of the side. You expect offense to drive that team not other way round.

feltdizz
04-30-2011, 01:52 PM
I don't love Peyton.... but I don't hate him either. I'm not one of those wacko fans who has to tear down other players to build mine up. I don't care how many playoff points Peyton averaged in his career. I just call the game discussed the way it went down. When any team gets the lead with 2 minutes left and the other team marches down the field in 2 plays after a long kickoff return I'm not going to blame the offense for losing the game. But then again I don't have the azzbackwards approach a genius like you has to blame the D when the O has 3 turnovers... :roll:

I bet you also blamed the O in 2009 when the D was giving up leads in the 4th. Real man of genius analysis.

Our offense put up 17 points on the Jets.. LOL. I guess Ben sucks too huh?

NJ-STEELER
04-30-2011, 02:53 PM
imagine what teams would do if we couldnt stop the run??? score less quickly on us? :stirpot

chad, the OL (and secondary) had many more questions then the DL. just cause you like the pick doesnt change that. both guys dropped to around the 30 area. so the value was similar. both could have been the pick. both wouldnt have been starting this year.
you cite age and injury but the OL had more guys hurt and more serious injuries. in the end which unit performed better last year and which unit needed more help? how is it reaching when sherrod and dowling were drafted pretty much right after our pick at #31?

i sincerely hope cam was in colbert's top 20 cant miss guys and not a "hey, he's from pittsburgh and has good character...lets grab him" type of pick.
i'm not going to believe what they say in a post draft conference. what else would they say?...every team is happy with their draft after the fact. i'm sure the brass loved the jamain stepehns and troy edwards picks the day after as well

i dont hate the heyward pick, but he better be able to provide a pass rush. and not just because people saw him do it at OSU vs a 5th round tackle (or where ever he went) at the sugar bowl.
i dont think using a 1st rd pick for a run stuffing 3-4 DE is wise. you can get guys to do that later in the draft. even our best DEs in this system over the years were not known for their pass rushing ability

lets hope for the best :Cheers

feltdizz
04-30-2011, 03:07 PM
i sincerely hope cam was in colbert's top 20 cant miss guys and not a "hey, he's from pittsburgh and has good character...lets grab him" type of pick.
i'm not going to believe what they say in a post draft conference. what else would they say?...every team is happy with their draft after the fact


Really? :wink:

We didn't hesitate to pick him up... why the hell would we just throw our hands up and pick at random?

NJ-STEELER
04-30-2011, 03:17 PM
that is a good sign, IMO

but bringing him in, seeing how he interviewed, etc... i see how that could move someone up their draft board i hope its his play that warranted such a 'no brainer' type of reaction.

as i said, i hope he more then just a run stuffer

feltdizz
04-30-2011, 03:25 PM
that is a good sign, IMO

but bringing him in, seeing how he interviewed, etc... i see how that could move someone up their draft board i hope its his play that warranted such a 'no brainer' type of reaction.

as i said, i hope he more then just a run stuffer

why wouldn't his play warrant his selection. We don't need a hometown guy to fill seats or sell jerseys.

He will do what our other DL's do.. occupy guys so the LB's can get busy. As long as you don't expect him to be a HOFer in his first preseason game you won't be disappointed.

NJ-STEELER
04-30-2011, 03:30 PM
his play did warrant a 1st round selection


i hope it wasnt his intangibles that was the difference in picking him over the OT or CB that went right after. i hope it was his play.

unlike some others, i wont proclaim him a bust if he doesnt start his rookie year. and i hope he's here for more then just 'taking up blockers'

Chadman
05-01-2011, 09:54 AM
There are less question marks on Heyward than Sherrod & Ras-I Dowling.

If you are going to pay someone millions to perform- you don't want question marks.

SteelTorch
05-01-2011, 01:26 PM
As for the OL- With Marcus Gilbert now on board, and with a strong possibility of last years rules being re-applied this year- the Steelers have added a rookie OT, a starting LT & starting RT to the OL that made it's way to the SB last season.

This 'terrible' OL spent a majority of the year without Starks & Colon- both are back. If the OL was good enough for a SB appearence without them, how good will it be with them?
Being good enough for a SB appearance doesn't make them good. :wink: And Colon is garbage, his return is good only in the sense that he's a body. Tackles like him are a dime a dozen. Less, even.

Anyway turns out they DIDN'T ignore the OL this year so this thread has outlived its purpose. Moving on.... :)